Author Topic: Why People are Anti-Gun  (Read 1837 times)

Offline Chemsoldier

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Why People are Anti-Gun
« on: December 18, 2017, 10:21:29 AM »
Clayton Cramer (progun blogger) on one of the reasons people become anti-gun. Sometimes it is because of exposure to gun owners, not because of lack of exposure.

 http://claytonecramer.blogspot.com/2017/12/why-people-are-anti-gun.html?m=1


Offline Alan Georges

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Re: Why People are Anti-Gun
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2017, 06:40:34 PM »
From the article:
Quote
Some traumas preclude reason.
Yes they frequently do.

It brings to mind the old saying "You can't reason someone out of a position he didn't reason himself into."  People seldom come to hate guns through deep thinking on the matter, but still, sometimes it is an understandable reaction to a traumatic event.

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: Why People are Anti-Gun
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2017, 07:10:39 PM »
It also reminds me to keep to my rules.

If I have people over and we are drinking, no iron. I don't care if I know it's unloaded, if I don't even own ammo in that caliber yet.  No iron.

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: Why People are Anti-Gun
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2017, 08:50:40 AM »
It also reminds me to keep to my rules.

If I have people over and we are drinking, no iron. I don't care if I know it's unloaded, if I don't even own ammo in that caliber yet.  No iron.


That's a good rule, but it can be awkward when you are a guest in another home.  A few times I've been greeted with "something to drink", and then "let me show you this custom stock I just got for my deer rifle".

No one is playing around or violating the 4 rules, however it's a gray area at best.

Offline Applejack

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Re: Why People are Anti-Gun
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2018, 07:13:37 PM »
I have always believed that with gun ownership comes responsibility. Parents don't lock their guns up like they should and then the kids end up shooting themselves or their friends just from playing with a loaded gun they had no idea that it was not a toy. Where are the responsible parents.  No child age 18 should be able to buy a gun in this day and age as kids are not responsible at that age. Only a few that might be but the rest will mess it up for that few. Then there are the kids like all the school shootings. Why can't anyone see the warning signs. More training is needed in this area. I am a gun owner with a concealed weapons permit. Though I choose not to carry when I go out. It is there for my protection in case of a breakin. My gun stays locked up and my husband used to go hunting when he was able and has both a shotgun and rifle. They also stay locked up. Our grandchildren have all been trained on the use and danger of guns. My youngest now hunts with his father. My grandkids also know that when their friends come over they are not to be getting the guns for show and tell. Their friends don't even know they have guns in the house. That is being responsible and not reckless. People just don't seem to have enough responsiblity to own a gun anymore and especally a military style gun.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: Why People are Anti-Gun
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2018, 09:04:22 PM »
I have always believed that with gun ownership comes responsibility. Parents don't lock their guns up like they should and then the kids end up shooting themselves or their friends just from playing with a loaded gun they had no idea that it was not a toy. Where are the responsible parents.  No child age 18 should be able to buy a gun in this day and age as kids are not responsible at that age. Only a few that might be but the rest will mess it up for that few. Then there are the kids like all the school shootings. Why can't anyone see the warning signs. More training is needed in this area. I am a gun owner with a concealed weapons permit. Though I choose not to carry when I go out. It is there for my protection in case of a breakin. My gun stays locked up and my husband used to go hunting when he was able and has both a shotgun and rifle. They also stay locked up. Our grandchildren have all been trained on the use and danger of guns. My youngest now hunts with his father. My grandkids also know that when their friends come over they are not to be getting the guns for show and tell. Their friends don't even know they have guns in the house. That is being responsible and not reckless. People just don't seem to have enough responsiblity to own a gun anymore and especally a military style gun.

No -- Someone 18 years old is an ADULT not a child ! AN adult, who needs to work, have their own housing arrangement, shop, can get married, have children, can borrow money, can buy a house or car, can vote, run for office, etc.... 18 year olds need to have the same rules and access as other adults to self defense and the ability to hunt and put food on the table.

Offline David in MN

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Re: Why People are Anti-Gun
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2018, 05:17:31 AM »
It's a PR battle and the wrong side is winning. We all know that you take a kid shooting and you have a supporter for life. Hence the antis will do anything in their power to prevent people from going shooting or even seeing a gun. They are being edited out of movies. Our most liberal cities are starting to defend shootings by claiming the gun went off by itself or that the shooter didn't know what a gun is.

This is a fundamental error on the part of pro-gun people. You think you are winning because of court victories and legal challenges but you are losing the culture war. While the antis would love an "assault weapon" ban, they'd much rather close a range or gun club. It's not a battle to ban guns. It's a battle to prevent exposure and ensure that guns are scary and unreliable. They want every person terrified to be near a gun.

As far as locking them up... Yeah, I do it. But my grandparents never did. I knew the shotgun was by the back door and the ammo was on the shelf next to it. That was normal for farmers. We just knew not to touch grandpa's shotgun. Again, it's cultural.

Offline surfivor

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Re: Why People are Anti-Gun
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2018, 07:05:45 AM »
It's a PR battle and the wrong side is winning. We all know that you take a kid shooting and you have a supporter for life. Hence the antis will do anything in their power to prevent people from going shooting or even seeing a gun. They are being edited out of movies. Our most liberal cities are starting to defend shootings by claiming the gun went off by itself or that the shooter didn't know what a gun is.

This is a fundamental error on the part of pro-gun people. You think you are winning because of court victories and legal challenges but you are losing the culture war. While the antis would love an "assault weapon" ban, they'd much rather close a range or gun club. It's not a battle to ban guns. It's a battle to prevent exposure and ensure that guns are scary and unreliable. They want every person terrified to be near a gun.

As far as locking them up... Yeah, I do it. But my grandparents never did. I knew the shotgun was by the back door and the ammo was on the shelf next to it. That was normal for farmers. We just knew not to touch grandpa's shotgun. Again, it's cultural.

 Probably because many on the left are aggressively politically active and engaging in many ways. They control much of the media on the topic while many libertarians and similar seem to almost have a do nothing attitude.

 I have a lot of doubts about libertarian approaches. Listening to Jack some time ago, it sounded like he was saying government schools are dying. Instead places like California seem to be moving towards making home schooling more difficult.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 07:27:23 AM by surfivor »

Offline surfivor

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Re: Why People are Anti-Gun
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2018, 07:50:32 AM »
Probably because many on the left are aggressively politically active and engaging in many ways. They control much of the media on the topic while many libertarians and similar seem to almost have a do nothing attitude.

 I have a lot of doubts about libertarian approaches. Listening to Jack some time ago, it sounded like he was saying government schools are dying. Instead places like California seem to be moving towards making home schooling more difficult.

 I mean if you think Hilary and Trump are nearly just as bad then go ahead and let someone like Hilary get in and see what happens with the 2A

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: Why People are Anti-Gun
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2018, 09:29:45 AM »
This is a fundamental error on the part of pro-gun people. You think you are winning because of court victories and legal challenges but you are losing the culture war. While the antis would love an "assault weapon" ban, they'd much rather close a range or gun club. It's not a battle to ban guns. It's a battle to prevent exposure and ensure that guns are scary and unreliable. They want every person terrified to be near a gun.

^^^this is why I volunteer as a board member at our gun range.  It's the only rifle range of it's kind for hundreds of miles.
In my early forties I'm one of the younger people by decades, but I feel the oldsters are set in their ways and are dismissive of this culture war. 

Women are another huge demographic we need to protect within the gun-friendly sphere.  Women talk with each other more often about "real life" than me do.
During a lunch break men may talk sports, or recount some weekend activity, but women will talk about parenting, their worries and feelings.

More than a few times my wife has gently introduced other female friends to the idea of going out for a range day. Sometimes the catalyst was some local crime in the news, which lead to a conversation about "I don't feel as safe living here".  What I've seen a few times, is such women assume learning about guns will be like learning CPR, a little scary, but necessary.  However most of them enjoy shooting if they are setup for success. Wise firearm selection and shooting venue are important. Don't hand a first time shooter a .44mag, or a firing line with other shooters that make them nervous.

Our mission isn't to make all these new people die hard gun people, but just keep them out of the "anti" column.  I've taken school teachers and others who were anti-gun, they learned basic safety and made holes on paper. One commented "I now understand you can be responsible and safe with guns.  It's not for me, but I can see how you might enjoy it."




Offline Canadian Prepper

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Re: Why People are Anti-Gun
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2018, 04:40:02 PM »
Though it's nothing new to me, I think that I will need to redouble my efforts as the weather warms to bring several more young people to the range as one of my contributions to this struggle.

Offline David in MN

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Re: Why People are Anti-Gun
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2018, 05:59:48 AM »
^^^this is why I volunteer as a board member at our gun range.  It's the only rifle range of it's kind for hundreds of miles.
In my early forties I'm one of the younger people by decades, but I feel the oldsters are set in their ways and are dismissive of this culture war. 

Women are another huge demographic we need to protect within the gun-friendly sphere.  Women talk with each other more often about "real life" than me do.
During a lunch break men may talk sports, or recount some weekend activity, but women will talk about parenting, their worries and feelings.

More than a few times my wife has gently introduced other female friends to the idea of going out for a range day. Sometimes the catalyst was some local crime in the news, which lead to a conversation about "I don't feel as safe living here".  What I've seen a few times, is such women assume learning about guns will be like learning CPR, a little scary, but necessary.  However most of them enjoy shooting if they are setup for success. Wise firearm selection and shooting venue are important. Don't hand a first time shooter a .44mag, or a firing line with other shooters that make them nervous.

Our mission isn't to make all these new people die hard gun people, but just keep them out of the "anti" column.  I've taken school teachers and others who were anti-gun, they learned basic safety and made holes on paper. One commented "I now understand you can be responsible and safe with guns.  It's not for me, but I can see how you might enjoy it."

Both myself and my wife are "life members" of our range and sponsor the local high school shooting club. It stings when you buy a box of shells for a 16 year old who then outshoots you on the skeet range but I'd rather be teased by a teen than not have the range. We also help with painting, construction, and the pancake breakfasts as we can.

It's a hurdle as most of the other members are (not joking) Vietnam vets only interested in league trap shooting so modernizing is not easy. Our club is great for them but not for the 22 year old who shows up with a used Glock. We are dragging them kicking and screaming into modern pistol ranges with reactive targets that are *fun* to shoot. I have a goal to host a 3 gun and I'm working on it...