Author Topic: MURS for Security?  (Read 16535 times)

MikeMartin

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MURS for Security?
« on: November 17, 2009, 09:58:52 AM »
Jack talks about this on the show but I would like to know more.  So as I understand it I can buy some "sensors" and put them out on my property and they relay alerts of motion detection.  My questions

1.  How sensitive are they can I adjust it up or down.  I don't want blowing leaves setting it off all the time.

2.  What is the range?  Not back to the radio but how far from the sensor do they detect motion and what is the "cone" of detection and is.  What I mean is can I like set it for a wide or narrow area?

3.  How many sensors can I have on one property?  With out getting fancy anyway?

Mike

Offline rob_ma

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2009, 10:30:34 AM »
Jack talks about this on the show but I would like to know more.  So as I understand it I can buy some "sensors" and put them out on my property and they relay alerts of motion detection.  My questions

Hi Mike,


1.  How sensitive are they can I adjust it up or down.  I don't want blowing leaves setting it off all the time.

There are two different security sensors:

1) MURS Alert Transmitter (MAT) uses infrared to detect the movement of warm objects - human, animal, vehicles, etc.

2) MURS Alert Probe Sensor (MAPS) uses a small probe with a 50 foot cable that can be buried to detect vehicle only traffic. (large metal object)

Both sensors have a sensitivity adjustment that will control how small of a change will be detected. Weather related movement is usually not detected by the MAT unit unless it is severe.



2.  What is the range?  Not back to the radio but how far from the sensor do they detect motion and what is the "cone" of detection and is.  What I mean is can I like set it for a wide or narrow area?

The MAT manual states ranges up to 80 feet. My personal experience is that at 30-50 feet you will have optimum detection. The detection area is cone shaped. There isn't a setting to narrow the range but a simple and effective way to do that is to add some electrical tape to the detector port on the front of the unit. This will create a smaller slit and will reduce the width of the cone. For optimal results the MATs will work best if there is a somewhat stationary object (building, woods/brush, etc.) across from it so that it has a constant "background" to detect change in temperature and motion.

Online Manual:
<http://www.dakotaalert.com/manuals/Murs-Alert.pdf>

3.  How many sensors can I have on one property?  With out getting fancy anyway?

The motion sensors (both) have four unique alert messages (Alert Zone One, Two, Three and Four). When received by either the hand held or base this will identify the exact detector being set off. Many of my customers have added more than four detectors and set up regions. By duplicating the alert message on more then one detector you can create alerts based on areas or regions of your property.

For example, one customer had a long dirt road that went past his house. He set up regional detectors with duplicate alert messages on the road so he knew someone on the road, then had more the specific detectors closer to the house.


I hope that answers your questions. Please let me know if you have more.

- Rob
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 07:17:43 AM by rob_ma »

selfsufficient

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2009, 03:41:26 PM »
Hi there could you explain further how your customers established more than four sensors. How can you distinquish clearly between set up zones or regions?? For example if I had five sheds on my farm how could I Distinquish the 5th shed, or Additionally a road?.
Also how can the portables be charged in a foreign country that uses 240Vac. what voltage does the transformer pack output have to be??

Thanking you

Offline rob_ma

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2009, 04:21:56 PM »
Hi there could you explain further how your customers established more than four sensors. How can you distinquish clearly between set up zones or regions?? For example if I had five sheds on my farm how could I Distinquish the 5th shed, or Additionally a road?.

Short answer... you can't distinguish more than 4 sensors if you need to distinctly identify the specific detector.

If you can utilize a regional approach then here are some more specifics:

Since there are only four alert messages you would need to duplicate the message on two units. Here is an example:

Shed #1 - "alert zone 1"
Shed #2 - "alert zone 2"
Shed #3 - "alert zone 3"
Shed #4 - "alert zone 4"

The fifth shed, since it is hypothetically near shed #4, would have a the same alert message (alert zone 4) as shed #4. Since you won't be able to uniquely identify the actual shed when you hear alert zone 4, you would know the general area that was tripped.

So, if you need to identify which shed's detector was tripped, you would be limited to 4 sensors. If you were OK with the general region that was tripped then you could add more than 4 sensors.





Also how can the portables be charged in a foreign country that uses 240Vac. what voltage does the transformer pack output have to be??

Thanking you


The wall mount power supplies, whether you are referring to the base power supply or the hand held charger, operate on 120 VAC. The output of the base supply is 12 VDC so you could easily convert the base to operate on a battery bank if you use solar, wind, etc (or even vehicular use). You would use the voltage adapters sold at Radio Shack to convert them to 240 VAC if desired.

One caveat, while some countries are lax in their enforcement of unlicensed radio operation, the US is the only country I am aware of that allows for unlicensed operation on MURS frequencies. In other countries those frequencies may be used by the local police or other agencies and they would not be pleased if they were interfered with. One of my customers in Argentina noted that there were two frequencies that these units used that were used by the local police there.

- Rob


Offline longhaul

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2010, 07:23:58 AM »
Has anyone found a way to communicate sound from one building to another: e.g. a smoke detector goes off in the barn and you hear it while sleeping in the house?  A baby monitor could do this, but a way to integrate with the MURS setup or similar seems better...

Offline rob_ma

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2010, 08:53:41 AM »
Has anyone found a way to communicate sound from one building to another: e.g. a smoke detector goes off in the barn and you hear it while sleeping in the house?  A baby monitor could do this, but a way to integrate with the MURS setup or similar seems better...


If the sound was loud enough (such as a smoke detector) you would use a radio with voice activated capability (VOX) to broadcast the sound over MURS. You could also set the radio's time out timer to turn off the transmitter after 30 seconds so that it doesn't tie up your communications system during the whole incident. You also need to remember that any conversation close to the radio will cause it to transmit as well.

The Dakota Alert radios do not have VOX but the Puxing PX-777 PLUS radio does.

- Rob

Offline longhaul

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2010, 07:59:55 PM »
Great info. thanks Rob.
So this Puxing is the way to go then for that aspect of the system.  Its great it could pick up conversation-level sound too - putting one in an outbuilding then could inform me a few hundred feet away in the house of both a smoke detector going off and a break in there.  An intermittent sound like a smoke detector would still be picked up and be sent to another building/unit?
Is there a Puxing that is a base-station type of unit/not need batteries but could 'live' in the outbuilding and plug in? 

Thanks again...

Offline inthego

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2010, 08:31:35 PM »
This guy on youtube did a review on the MURS Security...

HOW TO HARDEN YOUR HOME DEFENSE PART 1

Offline rob_ma

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2010, 09:57:54 AM »
So this Puxing is the way to go then for that aspect of the system.  Its great it could pick up conversation-level sound too - putting one in an outbuilding then could inform me a few hundred feet away in the house of both a smoke detector going off and a break in there.  An intermittent sound like a smoke detector would still be picked up and be sent to another building/unit?

If you set the VOX sensitivity high enough you should be able to hear any loud sounds in the vicinity of the radio.


Is there a Puxing that is a base-station type of unit/not need batteries but could 'live' in the outbuilding and plug in? 

Not yet but I am hoping to see more Puxing products receive their FCC certification so that they can be legally imported and used in the US. Right now only the PX-777 PLUS hand held is available.

- Rob

Offline rob_ma

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2010, 09:59:40 AM »
This guy on youtube did a review on the MURS Security...

HOW TO HARDEN YOUR HOME DEFENSE PART 1


I stumbled upon this a couple of months ago and found out that he had purchased his equipment from me.


- Rob

Wizardofoz

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2010, 12:21:20 PM »
You might want to investigate surplus military seismic detection sensors used by SpecOps as a force multiplier when manpower for perimeter security is limited. They are pricey (if you can find them) but well worth the $$

Offline longhaul

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2010, 01:56:24 PM »
Thanks...
And the regular Dakota Base Station doesn't have VOX, correct?  That would be awesome if it did...

I think I have the beginning of my system nailed with this info.
Thanks Rob...

Offline rob_ma

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2010, 03:55:12 PM »
And the regular Dakota Base Station doesn't have VOX, correct?  That would be awesome if it did..

No, the base does not have VOX. The Puxing PX-777 PLUS hand held does though.


- Rob

Offline 19114life

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2010, 04:07:25 PM »
Another Idea would be to get some Inovonics transmitters and a receiver. The transmitters have a battery life of about 3-4 year and have a range close to 1 mile open air. I put in security systems and we use these alot for drive way sensors.  They are very dependable. Check the Inovonics equipment out.  I am not trying to advertise for any body just saying these transmitters are made just for long range applications.

Offline vicious

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2010, 04:30:52 PM »
Would I be able to have a base station in the house and sensors up to a half mile away? Forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere.

Offline 19114life

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2010, 04:39:58 PM »
Vicious are you asking about Inovonics or Murs?

Offline vicious

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2010, 06:16:08 PM »
Murs. Specifically the MAT as described in the second post.

Offline rob_ma

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2010, 03:26:41 PM »
Would I be able to have a base station in the house and sensors up to a half mile away? Forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere.


A half of a mile should be no problem between the base and the sensor. Unless you have a large mountain between the two that should be easily covered.

- Rob

Offline ag2

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2011, 09:43:56 PM »
Quote
Shed #1 - "alert zone 1"
Shed #2 - "alert zone 2"
Shed #3 - "alert zone 3"
Shed #4 - "alert zone 4"
The fifth shed, since it is hypothetically near shed #4, would have a the same alert message (alert zone 4) as shed #4. Since you won't be able to uniquely identify the actual shed when you hear alert zone 4, you would know the general area that was tripped.

I know this is an old thread, but I had a solution to identification of the 5th zone.  Buy two zone alerting devices and put them in the 5th shed, side-by-side.  Set one to "alert zone 1" and the other to "alert zone 4".  When you are alerted with two alerts, you know someone is in shed 5.

Hopefully MURS has expanded options and doubling up on sensors is not needed, but it seems like a solution to me.

Offline mike77

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2011, 10:03:16 PM »
I'm not too familiar with MURS or the sensors, but using two sensors simultaneously probably won't work. At least not if they are set to the same frequency. Two transmitters on the same frequency transmitting at the same time typically will just sound distorted rather than hearing the two zone alerts separately. Now you could get the same effect by setting them to two different channels/frequencies but then you need two receivers also. At that point you could probably do two systems of four sensors each on two channels for a total of eight zones.

Offline rob_ma

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Re: MURS for Security?
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2011, 07:48:39 AM »
I'm not too familiar with MURS or the sensors, but using two sensors simultaneously probably won't work. At least not if they are set to the same frequency. Two transmitters on the same frequency transmitting at the same time typically will just sound distorted rather than hearing the two zone alerts separately. Now you could get the same effect by setting them to two different channels/frequencies but then you need two receivers also. At that point you could probably do two systems of four sensors each on two channels for a total of eight zones.

That is correct. Using two sensors will cause interference with each other when they are tripped simultaneously although you probably could make out the fact that two sensors were transmitting. This would end up giving you the desired results if you needed a 5th area to monitor. Using two frequencies and two receivers would be a workaround but you would need to identify which receiver was receiving the alert. At the moment there aren't any plans by the manufacturer to upgrade the number of alert messages although that would be a nice feature to have.

- Rob