Author Topic: ATF Attempts to recover 4,000 guns that should have been NICS failures  (Read 906 times)

Offline Chemsoldier

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Basically, the ATF is trying to get back guns from purchases that were "72 hour precedes" that should have been NICS failures.  NICS has 72 hours to complete a background check.  Usually it is complete in a few minutes, however, at times it takes a much longer time to process.  In an effort to keep behind the scenes chicanery from stalling lawful commerce, policy is for NICS to give the FFL the authorization to "precede" with the sale even if the check is not complete.

At least 4,000 times in the last year there have been precedes that later turned out to be unauthorized persons.  Now they are trying to get the guns back from the purchaser.  Of course they are not saying how successful they are at it.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/12/daniel-zimmerman/feds-issued-orders-confiscate-guns-4000-prohibited-persons/

Original story:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/12/04/exclusive-feds-issue-4-000-orders-seize-guns-people-who-failed-background-checks/901017001/

I actually have no issue with the NICS program, though states (and the .mil apparently) need to do a better job of contributing disqualifying information to it. 

I definitely would not want the job of trying to reclaim guns from NICS failures though.  Mostly looks like a typical USA Today hatchet job.  It skirts around an interesting question on the NICS system and what generates a long check and are there any patterns to a NICS failure.  Also, what do they need to make NICS work better (come back with a deny/approve faster)? You can't really say there is a reason to not have more paper pushers helping process it.  They are not ATF employees, they are FBI employees, so I don't see the old political hot potato of giving ATF more resources.

I think a better measure than using expensive federal resources to go after those who fail a NICS check is to issues some kind of paper on it and send it to the county sheriff and state police where the purchase was made.  That might be a good filter, if the locals are concerned by the individual's NICS activity that is probably a better screen than the feds.  If nothing else, its surely less dangerous for all parties to let the locals do normal process serving on the individual than sending the ATF, who honestly are better suited to going after larger smuggling operations anyway.  They are revenuers better suited to going after higher level criminal enterprises anyway.

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: ATF Attempts to recover 4,000 guns that should have been NICS failures
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2017, 04:05:12 PM »
Maybe something akin to a public sex offender notice?

Joe A. Sixpack of 123 Happy Blvd. is known to have purchased a firearm illegally on 4/4/2017

I can see the soccer mom demographic reacting badly in suburban areas.

Offline machinisttx

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Re: ATF Attempts to recover 4,000 guns that should have been NICS failures
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2017, 06:08:00 PM »
policy is for NICS to give the FFL the authorization to "precede" with the sale even if the check is not complete.



This is not quite correct. The FFL is legally required to wait 72 hours for an answer from NICS. If no answer is given by the end of that period, it is at the discretion of the FFL as to whether or not the firearm is transferred to the individual.

Public posting of firearms ownership information is among the least intelligent suggestions I've ever heard of. It's on par with leaving the boxes for a new surround sound setup and 72" plasma tv out on the curb.  Guess where the burglars are going to go while the individual is not at home...

What usually triggers long waits or false denials is a common name shared with a criminal. I've never had it happen...although I've also had a CHL since I was 21 and it serves as the NICS check. I have heard a couple of people say they had problems several times, but once they began putting their SSN on the 4473, it never happened again.

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: ATF Attempts to recover 4,000 guns that should have been NICS failures
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2017, 07:32:05 PM »
Important distinction, thank you for the clarification.

I imagine the bar on least intelligent thing you have ever heard is fairly high considering you seem to be referring to the rumination of a fellow forum member in good standing. Not TOS, but rude. Be more circumspect in the future please, or simply matter of fact in your feedback.