Author Topic: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction  (Read 6382 times)

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #60 on: August 13, 2017, 10:18:03 AM »
Quote
Agreed, it s a choice.  They are using the force of government to suppress housing development driving up the price of housing.  This Not In My Backyard approach feeds a haves vs. have-nots dichotomy with the have-nots being pushed to the streets.


Most of our homeless come from out of state, they just keep going west until they hit the ocean.....realy, we do expensive homeless surveys every year, they are from out of this county or they are local and, pick one or more,  on very heavy drugs/alcohol, mentally ill, and/or are Vets.

It is off topic for this thread, the homeless problem, and it has very little to do with housing availability or prices out here. The ones in this county, cant follow rules to be in anything we try to make for them. They ruin any public facilites provided, which get to some degree provided anyway(ie, portapotties, water sources, public parks and plazas, food distributions). We need to do more for the mentally ill, big time, and I see NOTHING being done about this, I have a mentally ill older family member and know what happened when Reagan closed the state facilities, and how bad it is. I see no hope for change in this, it would cost money. We have free health care for diabetic illegal immigirants, including a ton of visiting nurses, etc... and we un-funded taking care of our mentally ill and Vets. Mentally ill that are too sick to take care of themselves and to follow rules of half-way houses have no state facility to fall back on. I know of 2 or 3 families totally lying/scamming foodstamp/medicaid, we have very little care to reign in this also, but we do not take care of our mentally ill, vets etc..... And we GIVE our addicts free needles with tie off and water, daily, as well as alot of food distributions, we do not jail any of the resulting thefts to feed teh habit, this costs us dearly.
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Offline mountainmoma

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #61 on: August 13, 2017, 10:21:56 AM »
Water, yes water will be a big one. But, like I said upthread, they are about to open up central valley farm/ranch land to what will be big time development, and no one is talking about the WATER ! Although, maybe those people will use less water than the crops they replace. Thing is, we should be taking more care to not pave over farmland and to try and keep the USA food secure.
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Offline mountainmoma

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #62 on: August 13, 2017, 10:26:28 AM »
As a native born Californian, and looking back at your map, I do take offense that we are supposed to house all comers, even if we dont have room, and even if it means we should pack ourselves in like rats with no room. No yards, crowded roads, you cant even get a quiet camping spot in a park for years now, too crowded, make a reservation a year ahead of time. Why should the west coast have to build up multistory, crowded housing so that everyone from around the country and around the world can move here and drive up our housing prices and ruin our quality of life ? So, this is why the older families from California keep leaving, like rats fleeing a sinking ship, to your states.....
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Offline Carl

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #63 on: August 13, 2017, 10:36:19 AM »
  What makes California so special?
Stop complaining about life and start Celebrating it .

I've reached the age where there is little left to learn the hard way.

If you had only one year,one month,or one day...Would you live your life differently?

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2017, 10:42:06 AM »
  What makes California so special?

? dont know. Ask them. Ideas are that Some is just illusionary, thought of what people think it is here, "coolness" factor to some. SOme is Jobs in tech or movies, etc... some is weather. Some is people who are NOT productive who come for our liberal attitudes and handouts. At this point, all of the net migration in is from other countries. It is likely pretty even of out of state moving here as longer term residents from here flee out. But, this interstate population flow isnt even, so some other states get the brunt of California outflow
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Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2017, 10:53:26 AM »
The homeless map is deceptive.  Nevada is #4, and our housing prices are not excessive, nor is our unemployment high.

Why is our homeless population so large?  A few reasons, the most common of which is weather.  If you don't have a house to go to at night, would you rather be sleeping outside in the middle of December in Vegas or Michigan?  It's a no brainer, and like mountainmoma says, they start out in the colder climates and head west to the more temperate regions.

Also, in the case of Nevada, there's the downside to the less restrictive regulations (and I agree with fewer individual restrictions, for the record) allowing people to determine their own futures, which is that even the mentally ill, drug addicts, and chronic alcoholics have that right as well. Which means they make bad decisions, lose their jobs, lose their homes, and burn all their family/friend bridges.  Then they're homeless.  24/7 access to alcohol (we have no closing time) and gambling can drive a crappy life into the ground pretty quickly.

At one point, my state was (illegally) shipping our homeless mentally ill out to California, giving them a bus pass and a sandwich.  I highly doubt we were the only ones.  People go to areas like Vegas, Los Angeles, San Francisco and New York to start over and maybe even "make it big," and the majority fail.  If you're going to be the next "big thing" and become a millionaire entrepreneur or rock star, you're not going to pack your bags and drive your Pinto to Des Moines, Iowa.

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2017, 05:07:43 PM »
Alternatively cities can welcome the unhoused with open arms:

http://www.kiro7.com/map-where-are-homeless-camps-in-seattle-/

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #67 on: August 13, 2017, 05:35:08 PM »
Alternatively cities can welcome the unhoused with open arms:

http://www.kiro7.com/map-where-are-homeless-camps-in-seattle-/

yes, they sure do, all along the west coast, must be why they keep coming. Last month I was in Sanfrancisco, walking by one of their many homeless tent camps completely blocking the sidewalk, where my dd and I had to walk on the filthy street, with the stench of human waste and trash as they cant seem to bother going half a block to one of the conveniently situated portapotties, or trash cans the city provides. They are happy to accept the free kits to shoot up with, and hte free tents  and sleeping bags, and free food -- and the couple in one of the tents was shooting up and threw their bloody, dirty cotton ball at us. Lucky the aerodynamics of a cotton ball are poor, and he missed.
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Offline Bradbn4

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #68 on: August 13, 2017, 05:57:26 PM »
So to the question of deduction of taxes for mortgage; I would vote no.  I would also vote no for deduction on State taxes.

I am not a big fan of post sales - tax...because if you are taxed after sales then you don't own it; you are just renting it.


I was surprised by the number of homeless in Hawaii 7 years ago.   Living on the beach one could make ends meet living on a small fixed income. 

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Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #69 on: August 13, 2017, 06:05:19 PM »
I am not a big fan of post sales - tax...because if you are taxed after sales then you don't own it; you are just renting it.

Agree.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #70 on: August 13, 2017, 08:19:25 PM »
http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article160423019.html
Sacramento sees a startling surge in homeless people. Who they are might surprise you

Homelessness rose by a startling 30 percent from 2,822 people the last time the transient population was counted in 2015, it said. It is the highest number of people living without permanent housing Sacramento has ever recorded.

About 2,000 of those counted by the survey are living outside, marking another first: More people are now living in the elements than in shelters or other emergency housing, the reverse of previous years.

The number of unsheltered homeless in the county skyrocketed by 85 percent in recent years, making up nearly half of the increase in overall numbers. About 800 of those are chronically homeless, meaning they have been homeless for more than a year or have had multiple bouts of homelessness in the past three years, and have a mental, physical or developmental disability that keeps them from working.
...

Porter, Devlin and Sturdevan highlight a trend among the long-term homeless people who spend nights in the open: The majority are from here, often living in familiar areas where they grew up or have ties to the community. Sacramento Steps Forward has found 70 percent of people it comes in contact with say they are from the city where they are currently sleeping – whether it’s Sacramento, a surrounding suburb or the unincorporated part of the county.

It’s important to own that these people on your street are your people,” said Ryan Loofbourrow, CEO of Sacramento Steps Forward. “It’s easier to think this is a tragedy that has come to us.”


http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/erika-d-smith/article153899264.html

Housing crisis? What California has is a housing catastrophe

What’s more, landlords are becoming so picky that one local advocate for the homeless recently told me that, in Sacramento, many are refusing to rent to people on a fixed income, even grandmothers on disability. And they can get away with it because there’s a ready and willing pool of would-be renters who are eager to fill out applications and plop down thousands of dollars as deposit.

This has become a fairly common situation in midtown Sacramento, where the vacancy rate is less than 2 percent. But, increasingly, it’s also happening in other neighborhoods, such as Oak Park.

Where does this leave millennials and younger Generation Xers who would like to build their lives in California? People like me, for example?

For now, if we’re lucky, it looks like renting until we have a head full of gray hair. A recent survey from ApartmentList.com found millennials in Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego and San Jose will have to wait almost 20 years to save enough money for a 20 percent down payment on a house or a condominium.

If we’re not so lucky, we’ll be living on the streets.

Last week, L.A. County released data from its latest Point in Time count of homeless people and found their numbers jumped by 23 percent over the past year to about 58,000 people. That’s despite getting about 14,000 people off the streets and into permanent housing, using rent subsidies, new construction, outreach and support services.

That’s a suburb, 58,000 people. The cost of housing just outpaced the county’s efforts.

“There’s no sugarcoating the bad news,” L.A. Mayor Eric Garcetti said at a news conference on Wednesday. “We can’t let rents double every year.”

Sacramento County will release it’s Point in Time count in early July, and there’s no reason to believe it will be any better.

Orange County reported an 8 percent jump in its homeless population over the past two years, with more than half of the county’s 4,800 homeless living outside. Santa Monica had a 26 percent spike, reversing years of declining numbers.

Something has to give.

I suppose we should be grateful that the Legislature is finally tackling the housing catastrophe. The Senate passed a package of bills on Thursday, some that streamline regulations to break the near standstill in the residential development and others that creating new sources of funding to build and help Californians access affordable housing. All told, more than 100 such bills were introduced this year.


http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-latino-homeless-20170618-story.html
Surge in Latino homeless population 'a whole new phenomenon' for Los Angeles

“I would say it’s a whole new phenomenon,” said County Supervisor Hilda Solis, whose district saw Latino homelessness go up by 84%. “We have to put it on the radar and really think outside the box when we consider how to help this population.”

Homeless officials and outreach groups say Los Angeles’ rising rents and stale wages are the main drivers pushing many out of their homes.

According to a study released by the Homeless Services Authority, renters living in Los Angeles are the most cost-burdened nationwide. More than 2 million households in L.A. and Orange counties have housing costs that exceed 30% of their income.



Offline mountainmoma

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #71 on: August 13, 2017, 10:42:10 PM »

I'm not sure what the point is of you quoting some newspaper about Sacramento when we were talking about Silicon Valley area and the homeless population out here. The numbers in the article about Sacramento are not the same as the numbers in this area of California. I also notice that they were very careful not to tell you the numbers of how much of the surging unhoused in LA are local vs recently moved into that area.....

I am sure our state government will be sure to give more help to LA and southern CA and the surging immigrant population while continuing to ignore and not fund the mentally ill.
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Offline mountainmoma

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #72 on: August 13, 2017, 10:52:31 PM »
And, my main point still stands, when do we say "enough",  that a community has enough people ? Do people have a right to live in an area that they cant afford ? Should the State be subsidising them to do so ? Would it be better for the state to pay for housing in a less expensive area for them ? Has state built low income housing ever worked out well in the long run ? If you cant afford to buy a house in the area your parents live in, does someone or the state owe you, should they be subsidising you and make it so you can live in a neighborhood or city that is our of your price range ?
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Offline Carl

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #73 on: August 14, 2017, 04:32:05 AM »
  When I throw bread on my driveway , birds show up,they eat the bread and more show up the next day demanding bread and pooping on my car.
Stop complaining about life and start Celebrating it .

I've reached the age where there is little left to learn the hard way.

If you had only one year,one month,or one day...Would you live your life differently?

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #74 on: August 14, 2017, 05:53:13 AM »
I'm not sure what the point is of you quoting some newspaper about Sacramento when we were talking about Silicon Valley area and the homeless population out here. The numbers in the article about Sacramento are not the same as the numbers in this area of California. I also notice that they were very careful not to tell you the numbers of how much of the surging unhoused in LA are local vs recently moved into that area.....

The housing crisis is everywhere in California as NIMBY is becoming a standard part of the culture.  It is difficult for charities to combat and thus help people in an environment where empathy has been purged.

I'm not sure what the point is of you quoting some newspaper about Sacramento when we were talking about Silicon Valley area and the homeless population out here. The numbers in the article about Sacramento are not the same as the numbers in this area of California. I also notice that they were very careful not to tell you the numbers of how much of the surging unhoused in LA are local vs recently moved into that area.....

https://www.thenation.com/article/silicon-valley-has-a-homelessness-crisis/

Silicon Valley Has a Homelessness Crisis

For years there has been a dramatic contrast between the concentrated wealth and political influence of the creative classes and the swelling homelessness epidemic in gentrifying cities like San Francisco and Oakland. Next door to the houses of young tech startup executives, families sleep in parked cars, while many workers must pay more in rent than they earn in wages. The Guardian recently reported that in East Palo Alto, one-third of schoolchildren are estimated to be homeless, meaning they have no secure form of shelter. More than 10,000 homeless people were stranded across San Jose and Santa Clara Counties last year on any given night, including hundreds of families with children. And that number doesn’t include the “hidden homeless,” the countless people without their own shelter who “double up” at friends’ houses. Sprawling homeless encampments dot the Bay, and the crisis is so endemic in some communities, activists have begun establishing homeless trailer camps in church parking lots.

Though some people experiencing homelessness suffer from drug abuse and mental illness, many others are ordinary working parents, excluded from the job market or priced out of the housing market. Though the speculative real-estate spiral has eased slightly in recent years, renters struggle against structural economic barriers. Some 70 percent of surveyed residents in San Jose cited high rent as the primary cause of homelessness. A growing proportion, 15 percent, report not only prohibitively high rent but total lack of available housing, up from 11 percent in 2011—suggesting that housing is moving from unsustainable to outright inaccessible.


And, my main point still stands, when do we say "enough",  that a community has enough people ? Do people have a right to live in an area that they cant afford ? Should the State be subsidising them to do so ? Would it be better for the state to pay for housing in a less expensive area for them ? Has state built low income housing ever worked out well in the long run ? If you cant afford to buy a house in the area your parents live in, does someone or the state owe you, should they be subsidising you and make it so you can live in a neighborhood or city that is our of your price range ?

People most certainly have a right to a free economy.  Let the government get out of the way so prices can moderate and people can afford to live.  Most certainly dont exacerbate the problem through a reverse Robin Hood tax policy.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #75 on: August 14, 2017, 06:18:49 AM »
More perspective on silicon valley.

http://sanjosehomeless.org/why-are-there-so-many-homeless-people-in-san-jose-part-1/
Why are there so many homeless people in San Jose: Part #1

Why do so many homeless people live outdoors in Santa Clara County?

How did we win that ignominious prize?

Answer #1:

Many people think it’s because we have a lot of homeless people.  That is true.  We do have a lot of homeless people, but not more per capita than many other large cities. Indeed, New York, San Francisco, Seattle, and Portland all have more homeless residents per capita than we do.

The really striking thing about Santa Clara County is how few shelters we have.  Very few people know this.  I started to suspect we were on the left end of the bell curve after hearing multiple patients explain how they had tried to get into shelters but were unsuccessful because they were all full.  I had also had interactions with the homeless in Seattle, Portland, and a small town in Oregon, and it seemed to me that there was a different emergency housing milieu that what patients were telling me about in San Jose.  A clinic volunteer found great data from the federal government (HUD), and we were able to compare our county’s information with the country’s other large cities. 

Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #76 on: August 14, 2017, 08:34:22 AM »
I do find it odd that, in a forum where the prevailing goal is self sufficiency, we're arguing for the right to lower housing prices instead of letting them be what the market will bear.

If people were unwilling to pay the enormous prices of houses in the most expensive cities, they wouldn't.  Prices would go down because people would live elsewhere, especially in a world where you're not as tied to a physical workplace as in the past.  But people do pay, sellers/landlords have the right to charge what they want, buyers/renters that think it's too much aren't required to buy it, and the market evens out at the intersection of what people are willing to accept and others are willing to pay.

The homeless situation is absolutely not the result of high housing prices.  Seven years ago, you could have bought a decent house in a good Vegas neighborhood for under $100,000 easily.  You could rent a nice apartment for $700 per month.  And we still had a homeless problem.  There are homeless going back to biblical times.  There will always be homeless people.

If you want to blame something for the current uptick in homelessness, blame heroin, meth, alcoholism, PTSD, untreated mental illness, child abuse, and excessive jail time for unpaid fines.  Those seem to be more directly related to someone ending up on the streets than anything else.

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #77 on: August 14, 2017, 09:09:56 AM »
If people were unwilling to pay the enormous prices of houses in the most expensive cities, they wouldn't.  Prices would go down because people would live elsewhere, especially in a world where you're not as tied to a physical workplace as in the past. 

I could do 95% of my work remotely from anyplace with reliable internet.  The ridiculous thing is that tech companies WANT to be in these hot areas. The explanation is Silicon Valley/Seattle/Austin is where the talent is. Ironically employee attrition is far higher in such markets, because it's extremely easy for competing firms to poach the best talent.

We have offices in Seattle and SF bay area.  For the junior engineers, more than 50% quit to join a sexier company like Netflix, Google or Apple.  They just "use" us to get a year or two of work experience on the resume.

Why not setup shop in western Montana or other rural, but scenic location?  You could pay people 30% less salary and the lifestyle would still be higher.

Offline Carl

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #78 on: August 14, 2017, 09:17:57 AM »
  Does Montana still use dial-up with 1200 baud modems?
Stop complaining about life and start Celebrating it .

I've reached the age where there is little left to learn the hard way.

If you had only one year,one month,or one day...Would you live your life differently?

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #79 on: August 14, 2017, 09:24:16 AM »
  Does Montana still use dial-up with 1200 baud modems?

Nah dude, that's a vicious stereotype.  They are up to 9600 these days.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #80 on: August 14, 2017, 09:49:19 AM »
Quote
The housing crisis is everywhere in California as NIMBY is becoming a standard part of the culture.  It is difficult for charities to combat and thus help people in an environment where empathy has been purged.

I think you should just talk about the homeless and charities in your area, where you know what people around you think. People here are so empathetic that it is absolutely ridiculous what is put up with, what would never be put up with somewhere else. In my area ( I am no longer right in Silicon Valley) ie.,working people used to not being able to use sidewalks, parks, public bathrooms, no-one is hungery or without ways to keep warm, you would have to kill someone to get incarcerated, you dont even spend 1/2 a day for theft, routine theft, etc...no waiting in a cell if you dont have bail. We give them ways to use drugs, etc... Out tented up areas are no so bad as Seatle, probably as our weather is milder.

Anyway, there has been no purging of empathy. One of my children who is still around here, and is a liberal journalist for one of the papers, even he says, as hard as housing is here, that people like his peers who grew up here who find it unaffordable should move.

Those children in East Palo Alto are not living in tents on the streets, and I cannot speak to what their solutions would be. Likely what similar families here are up to though. After a while of finding an area unaffordable, couch surfing, etc.... it is likely time to think you would have  better quality of life somewhere else, and we realy should have better counseling and resources to help people figure out how to take care of themselves, the EDD etc... are a complete joke out here. And I am not NIMBY saying this, these are the conversations I have for myself and my family, it is a matter of when and where, not if, for use leaving. Everyone one, just about. That is what they talk of and do. Sometimes to  more affordable area of California, an aquaintance of mine, a single mom with a chronic ill toddler, finally stopped struggling here and moved to a very affordable city in California.

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Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #81 on: August 14, 2017, 10:51:03 AM »
I could do 95% of my work remotely from anyplace with reliable internet.  The ridiculous thing is that tech companies WANT to be in these hot areas. The explanation is Silicon Valley/Seattle/Austin is where the talent is. Ironically employee attrition is far higher in such markets, because it's extremely easy for competing firms to poach the best talent.

We have offices in Seattle and SF bay area.  For the junior engineers, more than 50% quit to join a sexier company like Netflix, Google or Apple.  They just "use" us to get a year or two of work experience on the resume.

Why not setup shop in western Montana or other rural, but scenic location?  You could pay people 30% less salary and the lifestyle would still be higher.

That's actually why Vegas is doing much better than we logically should be.  With land for miles, no state income tax, relatively low cost of living, no real natural disasters to speak of, and a pro-business low regulation attitude, we're getting a whole lot lot of up and coming companies relocating to here.

I see some really big names plastered across buildings on my way home now, especially in the last five or six years.


Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #82 on: August 14, 2017, 11:12:39 AM »
That's actually why Vegas is doing much better than we logically should be.  With land for miles, no state income tax, relatively low cost of living, no real natural disasters to speak of, and a pro-business low regulation attitude, we're getting a whole lot lot of up and coming companies relocating to here.

I see some really big names plastered across buildings on my way home now, especially in the last five or six years.

After college I had some IT friends relocate there.  Buying a 2000sq ft house with a pool in Henderson for less than their Orange County apartment cost to rent seemed like a slam dunk.
Shortly after the real estate went bust.  Have you all recovered?

While I haven't spent any considerably time in Las Vegas, I get the impression that no one is really from there.  I know logically someone must be, but I have yet to meet them.

Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #83 on: August 14, 2017, 11:21:38 AM »
After college I had some IT friends relocate there.  Buying a 2000sq ft house with a pool in Henderson for less than their Orange County apartment cost to rent seemed like a slam dunk.
Shortly after the real estate went bust.  Have you all recovered?

Very well, really.  Our unemployment was up to 14.1% during the height of the financial trouble, but it has been low for ages since.  We're at 5% now, which isn't amazing, but when you consider our workforce is largely uneducated beyond the high school level and we were literally the worst in the nation as far as unemployment for several years running, it's pretty good.

The powers that be run the government fairly intelligently.  State workers were given pay freezes and mandatory unpaid furlough days when it was really bad and not much money was coming in.  When the economy recovered, they resumed pay increases and dropped the furlough days.  Now they just approved a 2% COLA increase, which the governor upped to 3% for the next two years.  State workers also contribute 14.5% of their gross pay to their own pension fund, which is relatively well managed.

I think they figured out that the economy wasn't diverse enough, based almost completely on construction/real estate and tourism.  Now they're courting tech, entertainment, shipping, and other companies.

While I haven't spent any considerably time in Las Vegas, I get the impression that no one is really from there.  I know logically someone must be, but I have yet to meet them.

Not very many.  I'm almost considered a local because I've been here for 20 years.  It's rare to meet someone over 30 that was born here.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #84 on: August 14, 2017, 12:39:50 PM »
For the purposes of surveys on housing, etc.... out here, you are local when you have been here for just a few years. Not that anyone has some kind of right to be able to afford a house where they grew up. But, I am one of a minority that was born in Silicon Valley, before it was Silicon Valley. Most people out here are also from somewhere else, even if they count as local in a housing survey. My aquaintance with the chronically ill toddler was considered local here, as she had been here many years, maybe even. But, the realy cheap housing city in California that she just moved to is actually where she grew up. She would have been counted as a local housing stressed family in this area when she was here. If you go to the UC here and stay on couch surfing, you are a unhoused local.
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Offline iam4liberty

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #85 on: August 27, 2017, 02:29:35 PM »
I think you should just talk about the homeless and charities in your area, where you know what people around you think. People here are so empathetic that it is absolutely ridiculous what is put up with, what would never be put up with somewhere else.

Locally we don't have the high costs of housing so we don't have the shelter capacity issue like California.  In fact, our services have moved ''upstream" to trying to stop people from becoming homeless in the first place.  Two I have been involved in are seasonal food security (through food bank) and energy security (lobbying for changes in law to allow utilities to 'smooth' bill payments from winter heating).  We have also been transitioning from emergency shelters to long-term shelters with specialized help  Examples are shelters for domestic abuse victims, alcohol/drug addicted, and veterans.  This way the root of the problem can be addressed.  Of course, I agree that there may always be chronic homeless due to other issues like mental health.  But these are a smaller portion than what people realize.  It is usually life changing events which create homelessness.

Right now in California it is a matter of triage.  The charities there are overwhelmed and can't even provide enough short-term beds.  And that is why there are so many 'empathy' projects active in California trying to get people involved: http://www.wnyc.org/story/trying-promote-empathy-homeless-tech-driven-san-francisco/

The homeless situation is absolutely not the result of high housing prices. 

We will have to disagree on this point.  Housing prices are the primary cause of homelessness.  Every institution for the homeless says this based on their on the ground experience and studies.  If people can't afford shelter they won't be sheltered.  And in California homeless charities are often priced out of the market or are stopped via NIMBY zoning.  Here is how the National Coalition for the Homeless puts it:

http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/why.html

Two trends are largely responsible for the rise in homelessness over the past 20-25 years: a growing shortage of affordable rental housing and a simultaneous increase in poverty.

A more in depth study was done by a homelessness activist in silicon valley.  She quantified the direct relationship and debunked the notion that the homeless flock to wealthier areas:

http://sanjosehomeless.org/the-wealthier-the-city-the-fewer-the-homeless-shelter-beds/





The analysis also confirms the inverse relationship between number of shelters and median income (the so-called empathy gap)  Many social scientists feel this is also related to church attendance as churches are the primary recruitment means for shelter manpower and donations.



But the craziest part of it is that a new type of homeless has emerged in Silicon Valley.  These are people who work at places like Facebook and Google and earn more than the median national wage.  Yet they can not afford (or in some cases even find) permanent housing.  So they are living out of vehicles.

And in general the homeless in California are primarily from California.  The way the surveys work is that they ask a person when and where they became homeless.  Then they ask how long they were in that place before becoming homeless.  As an example. in San Francisco about 50% of the homeless lived in California for more than 10 years before becoming homeless.  Generally, the homeless don't have the means for cross-country travel.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 02:37:05 PM by iam4liberty »

Offline osubuckeye4

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #86 on: September 01, 2017, 10:31:54 AM »
Reducing the mortgage deduction could stabilize the housing market to some degree.

It would also most likely completely screw over middle class/upper middle class homeowners who are counting on that deduction to finance their lifestyle/obligations.



If the plan is to create a dystopian society where a couple families control everything and 99.999% of people fight over scraps, this would be a logical step towards making that happen.

Offline Carl

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #87 on: September 01, 2017, 12:11:10 PM »
  That or they can just confiscate a large percentage of bank and retirement funds or convert to a different money like the peso and make everyone equal again so we can start over...it's been done in other countries already.
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Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #88 on: September 01, 2017, 12:16:26 PM »
  That or they can just confiscate a large percentage of bank and retirement funds or convert to a different money like the peso and make everyone equal again so we can start over...it's been done in other countries already.

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Offline David in MN

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Re: talk of reducing the mortgage deduction
« Reply #89 on: September 05, 2017, 02:51:15 PM »
I guess losing it would decrease the value of my house. But it would encourage a healthier housing market where incentives are more straightforward. There's a general pervasive attitude that to be successful you need to own a house. Even though many economists will say otherwise we all know our housing effects our tax bill and our childrens' education. My elementary school is recognized as one of the best in the state. There are no houses for sale in my city.

You guys who take the standard deduction need a new tax attorney...
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