Author Topic: Why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff?  (Read 1803 times)

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff?
« on: March 16, 2017, 10:29:34 AM »
Recently I've attended a couple funerals for elderly female relatives.  Both lived well into their 90s.
Both enjoyed upper-middle class lifestyles for much of their lives, and had smart, hard working husbands who prepared financially.

Inevitably, "family dynamics"  happen, and gossip about estates and inheritance spreads among relatives and close friends.

What's curious and terrifying to me, is at the time each of these women became widows, they owned their respective homes in full, and were financially secure beyond social security.
However, each of these women died with relative little in terms of wealth.  In one case, in the last decade the long time family home was sold for $1.4 million.  As there was no mortgage, that was all profit (minus taxes and commission of course).  However, just a decade of nursing care, cancer treatments and other costs consumed 80%+ of that.  After final expenses, and 4 siblings dividing the estate, each could barely get a new car - or the woman could have continued her care for another 20 months at the previous cost schedule.
I know many people would love to be as fortunate, but what appears as a massive windfall wasn't. 

You can view this a few ways - they were prepared for what they needed, or they lived longer than anticipated.

Further, these elderly folks came from a generation where pensions existed.  One worked for a large bank, the other a USAF officer with full retirement benefits.
Most of us will rely on 401K/IRA with whatever we contributed (possible some employer match).    My plan looks okay if I die at 75, but unless I ramp stuff up, I'm up a creek if I live to be 100.

Again, I'm not worried about dying rich - but I don't want my kids to have to spend several thousands each month for nursing care.


EDIT: changed thread title at Smurf's request
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 06:50:38 PM by Mr. Bill »

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: Why is there not more activity on this board?
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2017, 12:39:28 PM »
Not to mention that capitol gains taxes are extreme on house sales ! Maybe we could make a suggestion to our congress critters ( yeah, right ! ) that a house sale (primary home) of someone over 62 (or whatever) isnt subject to the capitol gains tax.

SO, she is single and sells the Million dollar house, with a purchase price of lets say 50k, so IRS sees 700,000 ( 1,000,000 less 50,000 less 250,000) as capital gains taxable and takes, I dont know current rate , lets say 25%, so takes something around 175,000 as taxes ! This is only one of many problems. WHy doesnt the house get to act like a 401plan ? Because, for most of us, this is what our house is when we get older, a large part of our plan for our own elder care.

An elderly member of my extended family, I have been told, it costs 7,000 per month for the care home she lives in,
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Offline bigbear

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Re: Why is there not more activity on this board?
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2017, 01:46:47 PM »
Trump-mania?  Change the thread title to some along the line of your comments and you've got something.

My mom died about 2 years ago at age 68 after a 7 year battle with ovarian cancer.  She had crazy expenses but because dad was retired Army, her Tricare coverage was really good. 

A few thoughts on that: 
* Gov't jobs provide much better health coverage than private jobs, especially in retirement.  It's amazing that we, the taxpayers, allow for it.  Obviously it helped my mom, but it's just messed up for everyone else.
* We spend 40+ years working/saving to pay for the last 2 years of health care.
* Pensions are amazing.  Mom was a retired teacher.  And Dad retired from the Army and the state transportation department.  Mom and Dad had 3 pensions and 2 SSI checks coming in.  They made more in retirement that actually working.  Again, it's amazing that we, the taxpayers, allow for it.

You would think I'd be lined up for a nice inheritance.  But Dad's engaged to someone with completely a spend-happy, controlling lifestyle.   :-X :-\
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Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: Why is there not more activity on this board?
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2017, 01:56:50 PM »

* We spend 40+ years working/saving to pay for the last 2 years of health care.

It's a bummer.  I don't expect to live my retirement like a Saudi Prince, but it would be nice to do some enjoyable things and not worry about near-end health costs.

BTW: sorry about your mother.  That experience sounds awful.  We lost my mother-in-law to cancer almost 13 years ago.  She was in her early 50s.

Offline AvenueQ

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Re: Why is there not more activity on this board?
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2017, 04:13:06 PM »
Trump-mania?  Change the thread title to some along the line of your comments and you've got something.

Yeah, I had a response lined up for this based on the thread title, but then got really confused when I got here and started reading (shame on me for assuming, I guess).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the original point in starting this thread was to start a dialogue about money management and how we all need to be more aware of it, because it's easy to go through life thinking that we're "wealthy" when really we're "rich". And that can have a huge impact on not only us, but our families and successors as well.

Personally, I don't use this board because it's too dense or esoteric for me most of the time. I'm in a weird position where I understand the basics of saving money, choosing a retirement plan, etc., so a crash-course would probably be too simple for me. However, get too detailed and specific about the stock market (for example) and I'm lost. Not that I can't understand money and economics, but if I get too much information coming in too fast, I'll totally shut down and get "analysis paralysis."

Online LVWood

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Re: Why is there not more activity on this board?
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2017, 04:25:25 PM »
Trump-mania?  Change the thread title to some along the line of your comments and you've got something.
I did this morning but got slapped by an admin for it.
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Re: Why is there not more activity on this board?
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2017, 04:29:22 PM »
Couple things...

We're really bad at this game. The modern American solution is essentially a lump sum lottery payout in the form of a 401(k). Not good. A better model is to have as many small inputs as possible taking advantage of insurance, savings, investment, etc. A good investor can make a small living in retirement off dividends. I know people who do.

Almost nobody I know outside my family takes full advantage of insurance. There are many types and unique abilities to use as we age.

My first controversial point... Work for a big company out of school. Both of us did and got about a decade of vested pensions. The 401(k) match was awesome as well. Do that in your 20s and you'll be better set going forward. I know it's not sexy or fun but it works.

Second controversial point... I watched my grandfather die after crippling dementia had his brain for years. It's not some cute story like The Notebook. I'll spare the details but I am not spending a decade rotting in a hospital unable to recognize my family.

Personally, I don't use this board because it's too dense or esoteric for me most of the time. I'm in a weird position where I understand the basics of saving money, choosing a retirement plan, etc., so a crash-course would probably be too simple for me. However, get too detailed and specific about the stock market (for example) and I'm lost. Not that I can't understand money and economics, but if I get too much information coming in too fast, I'll totally shut down and get "analysis paralysis."

You do know that all of Wall Street's quants are physics majors, right? Turns out to be the best algorithm writers on the planet. Read Taleb and you'll start getting economics better...

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: Why is there not more activity on this board?
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2017, 05:06:35 PM »
Read Taleb and you'll start getting economics better...

Years ago I read the sample chapter of The Black Swan.  While fascinating, it felt like the science behind "sh#t happens".  I might pick it up again, but I believe in Murphy's Law, whether there's an algorithm or not.

Sorry about the thread title.  Q is correct.  I should have titled it "why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff"?

Offline Carl

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Re: Why is there not more activity on this board?
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2017, 05:32:35 PM »
  My daycare center and alligator ranch did not turn out as a good investment... ::)
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Re: Why is there not more activity on this board?
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2017, 05:45:01 PM »
Years ago I read the sample chapter of The Black Swan.  While fascinating, it felt like the science behind "sh#t happens".  I might pick it up again, but I believe in Murphy's Law, whether there's an algorithm or not.

Sorry about the thread title.  Q is correct.  I should have titled it "why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff"?

Taleb is really good for technical people like me. Antifragile is his best work if you only read one.

Preppers don't talk money because we know how painful the discussion will be. The $5k we all have in rifles, shotguns, and pistols we bought in our 20s could have let us retire earlier. Being a "prepper" gives carte blanche for spending too much on toys while ignoring the bigger picture.

Offline CPT Morgan

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Re: Why is there not more activity on this board?
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2017, 05:52:41 PM »
Could your question be due to the fact that many "preppers" are completely comfortable with the thought of a subsistence retirement?

That said, another example could be the differences between my brother and I.  He lives to play and keep up with the Jones', owning things that people envy.  I on the other hand like a more laid back approach, can wait for what I want, like to have everything paid for and could care less what others think.  He is counting on our parents kicking the bucket before they spend all their money and I don't want a dime of what I didn't earn myself.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff?
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2017, 06:58:10 PM »
Trump-mania?  Change the thread title to some along the line of your comments and you've got something.
I did this morning but got slapped by an admin for it.

MODERATOR NOTE: If you want a moderator to fix something, use the "Report to moderator" button and explain the problem.  The original poster can't change the thread title anyway.

I've changed the title to what Smurf Hunter requested.

Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: Why is there not more activity on this board?
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2017, 07:17:22 PM »
Pensions are amazing.  Mom was a retired teacher.  And Dad retired from the Army and the state transportation department.  Mom and Dad had 3 pensions and 2 SSI checks coming in.  They made more in retirement that actually working.  Again, it's amazing that we, the taxpayers, allow for it.

Don't forget that, while they may get a pension with a government job, then they generally don't get social security too because there's a windfall elimination provision and they don't pay into social security during their government years.

I paid into social security most of my adult life, with some time unpaid as my ex-husband's business partner and five years off to stay home with my kids.

About three years ago, I started working a government job and currently have 14.5% deducted from my paycheck to fund my pension. I'll do that for 15 more years before I hit retirement age, so I'll get 45% of my last three years pay as pension.  I paid in to social security for decades, but I'll only get about half of the social security I would otherwise get.

So it really does kind of even out.  When it's a bit over the top is when you have both spouses working pension jobs with survivor benefits (so a double pension for one person when the spouse dies), or one of them retiring from one 30-year pension job, then getting another job with a pension because they're not even 50 when their 30 years are up.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff?
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2017, 08:11:25 PM »
Because a lot of preppers are broke, ignorant of basic financial planning concepts, and persist in fantasizing about a future where it won't matter anyway.  Just look at any of the threads here on investing over the years, where the predominant sentiment is that the financial system is going to hell, money will soon be worthless, and an ammo can of silver is a wise retirement plan.  However, now that Trump is President and the future looks brighter for the average prepper, this world view may be changing.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 08:26:22 PM by FreeLancer »
23:57:30

Offline fred.greek

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Re: Why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff?
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2017, 10:49:04 PM »
Warning - Probable babble.  It has been a long day and I pasted together the below from other forum comments I have made. 

Preparedness as retirement plan
Personal Opinion:
Preparing for retirement is an aspect of overall “Prepping”.
Others have mentioned the book “The Alpha Strategy” for prepper/retirement planning thoughts.  I also recommend it, available to read at: http://www.scribd.com/doc/6230684/The-Alpha-Strategy

More reading might include “Early Retirement Extreme”:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/156367201/Early-Retirement-Extreme

And what seems to be a related discussion forum:
http://forum.earlyretirementextreme.com/index.php?sid=fc2910e3947af308e2a353274ae96f69

And perhaps:

https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/register.php?a=act&u=32170&i=ecb04505289a2adf1b9d3ddbc265939d077afe5a

I used to visit these retirement forums frequently, up until the wife and I were both retired.

A significant aspect of our retirement plan was an “Urban Homestead”.  Nearly 20 years ago we bought a small home in a relatively quiet neighborhood, more or less close and central to those aspects we anticipated we would want/need.  (Church, grocery, library, hospital.)  We rented it out, and put the rental profits, and more, back into the home.
    Examples: Solar, upgraded wiring & plumbing, rainwater collection, graywater use, edible landscaping.  Refinished with long-term durable materials. New windows, blah, blah….
By the time we retired, the place is not necessarily roomy or pretty, but it functions and reduces what would otherwise be ongoing costs… It’s nice to be able to water the garden with “free” water, and pick “safe” veggies whenever we want.  Heck, a few months out of the year the electric company pays us… 

When I retired, at the first possible moment I rolled my 401k type accound to what amounts to a "real estate" IRA type account.  The account owns fully paid for rental homes.  Since we do not need the money yet, the rents accumulate in the account, and when there is enough, we make an upgrade to a property.
A significant aspect of our retirement plan was an “Urban Homestead”.  Nearly 20 years ago we bought a small home in a relatively quiet neighborhood, more or less close and central to those aspects we wanted.  (Church, grocery, library, hospital.)  We rented it out, and put the rental profits, and more, back into the home.
Examples: Solar, upgraded wiring & plumbing, rainwater collection, graywater use, edible landscaping.  Refinished with long-term durable materials. New windows, blah, blah….
By the time we retired, the place is not necessarily roomy or pretty, but it functions and reduces what would otherwise be ongoing costs… A few months out of the year the electric company pays us…
For investment, consider a self-directed IRA, or solo 401k. 

http://forum.earlyretirementextreme.com/index.php?sid=fc2910e3947af308e2a353274ae96f69

http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=8886.30
September 20, 2009, 07:06:03 PM »
•   Quote
The powers that be want you to work, and be taxed, all your life…  and they want it impossible for your to pass to your children the benefits of your labor.

If you disconnect from the taxed economy, you’re still going to be required to pay your “property tax”. Consider:

Everyone in your neighborhood owns their home free of any mortgage.  All are fireproof and grow enough food to feed the family.  Someone from each homestead works enough to pay the property taxes, but otherwise each family more or less specializes in some craft, and the crops grown.  Since everyone gets along on the barter system, and no money changes hands, you ignore the rest of the taxing authorities. 

Wrong.

Your local “sales tax” authorities may consider all of your barter exchanges a commercial transaction, and demand their tax. 

The IRS  is also quite likely to consider your exchanges as commercial transactions, subject to income tax, self employment (Social Security & Medicaid) tax, etc.

And it can get worse.  Say the neighbor kid double-digs your garden, and you barter some of your canned goods in exchange.  If the tax authorities deem the kid your employee, vs an independent contractor you potentially owe minimum wage, tax withholding, and such other labor law requirements as are imposed in your jurisdiction.  (Our laws are “nuts”, and even the tax authorities DO NOT know what they say.)

Although no money actually changed hands in any of the above events, if they are deemed taxable you will have to obtain official currency somewhere to pay the tax officials.  Most likely, someone from each family will be forced to work at a “real” job to earn cash.

Government agencies, in particular the tax authorities, have a vested interest in fragmentation of families, friendships, and communities based on such.  If you are growing your own food, looking after your neighbors, helping each other, taking turns letting the kids gather at homes, and not hiring someone for these "services", the tax authority has no easy basis to establish and siphon off part of the effort.  Government agencies have a vested interest in discouraging people from taking care of themselves, or each other, and in CREATING problems, and expanding problems, to expand the scope of the solutions the agencies offer.
 
Tax law has crammed health insurance into the square-hole of being an employee benefit, a tax deduction to the employer, not taxable to the employee, but not in the best interest of the employer, employee, or the insurance company.  Until health insurance ceases to be primarily a benefit provided by an employer, it is going to continue to be a mess.  ANY government run program though is going to be a BIGGER mess.  Re the U.S. government, consider, it cannot even provide for day to day employee salary and keeping the lights on at government buildings, without BORROWING.  It borrows for everything else.  Does any sane person want any aspect of their life dependent on an entity that is so badly run?

Social Security (perhaps the greatest Ponzi scheme in history) tax has created an illusion of a retirement income, as have promised pensions from employers, rather than individuals setting up their own clearly owned and ongoing plans.  Take GM for example, it is broke.  Without cash coming in from the fed, which is borrowed, it would be bankrupt, and the planned big pensions and health care would be gone. 

Lower ongoing / outgoing costs.  I suggest the FIRST thing to eliminate it any reception of broadcast television.  It saps your after-tax money, and the time that is your life, that could be far better utilized.

Your IRA / 401(k) can be invested in rental real estate, a small business that you control, etc.  Google “checkbook IRA”, or “real estate IRA”.  Your IRA can own the home rented to your brother, and his IRA can own the home rented to you.  You can both of course charge well below “market” rent.  No tax consequence…  Your IRA can own a small business, where you work… How about a prepper business, an LLC that buys and sells say storage food, which the business must of course have a large stock on hand at all times.

Gold, silver, copper, nickel, grain, .22 LR, coupons good for dental work, WHATEVER, they are all currency for a local economy, just NOT what the government wants paid in.  For many purposes, you’re stuck having an emergency fund in dollars… But I again point to nickels, to the extent that you need some modest amount of cash about, why not nickels, which at least have the potential to climb as inflation becomes more significant.

The concept mentioned, of mortgage insurance, fits a hyperinflationary environment.  If all stays well, you earn and pay off the loan.  If the fertilizer hits the fan, the amount owed on the mortgage stays fixed, and your (hopefully) growing income lets you pay the loan off with the monopoly money (With apologies to Monopoly..)  My point, I guess, is that if you assume hyperinflation, life insurance, and inflation hedges, intended to pay off some fixed loan, are great. 

Life insurance as a generic pot of money, hopefully for your surviving loved one to live off, may be a sad joke.  As we’ve seen over and over, the politicians can inflate away any value of an insurance payout in terms of a currency…

There is “good” debt, and “bad” debt.  If you have debt to own a productive asset, it’s “good” debt, and like mortgage insurance to cover a place to live, insurance to cover a debt on a productive asset is a good thing.  Without the debt though, the insurance can be worthless.

My exercise, is my garden.  Must as it was back when I was a kid.  My neighbors have commented on the mess… on my doing the yard myself, rather than paying someone, as they apparently feel I should… I guess I should then go to the gym with them…

I recall one grandfather retired, and said he wasn’t going to do anything except watch the grass grow… Within a year or so, he was watching from below the grass.  The other grandfather was partially disabled from factory accidents, but kept busy at gardening, tinkering with stuff, small scale business, etc., and lived much longer. 
Retired, but still working in the garden...

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: Why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff?
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2017, 12:02:47 AM »
 :popcorn:
"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing, after they've tried everything else"
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Offline surfivor

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Re: Why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff?
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2017, 06:04:20 AM »

 I am not big on investing but I am not sure what to invest in. A while back I heard about buying stocks like wall mart, star bucks and so on. Someone on a show mentioned it and it seemed like maybe a safe bet, however the market timing seemed wrong. Right now some people are saying Trump is going to grow the economy but other people are singing some different tune.


I bought some CD's a while ago. I had to buy them through Bank of America. The Credit union that I use has a screwed up website with my old address and they couldn't even fix it to allow me to buy a CD on their website.


 Gary Null on the other hand is saying just buy precious metals.

I still think about how Jack said on down the road the government may control your 401K.


Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: Why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff?
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2017, 08:56:16 AM »
I am not big on investing but I am not sure what to invest in. A while back I heard about buying stocks like wall mart, star bucks and so on. Someone on a show mentioned it and it seemed like maybe a safe bet, however the market timing seemed wrong. Right now some people are saying Trump is going to grow the economy but other people are singing some different tune.


I bought some CD's a while ago. I had to buy them through Bank of America. The Credit union that I use has a screwed up website with my old address and they couldn't even fix it to allow me to buy a CD on their website.


 Gary Null on the other hand is saying just buy precious metals.

I still think about how Jack said on down the road the government may control your 401K.

Watch the S&P 500.  Seriously.

It may be boring, and it has its own ups and downs like everything else, but it has a really long and impressive track record.

Just don't move money around a lot.  Trying to figure out timing is a full time job, and even then you can easily get it wrong.  Find something reasonable, put money in and leave it, put more money in on a regular basis, and leave it alone.



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Re: Why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff?
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2017, 09:52:29 AM »
Because a lot of preppers are broke, ignorant of basic financial planning concepts, and persist in fantasizing about a future where it won't matter anyway.  Just look at any of the threads here on investing over the years, where the predominant sentiment is that the financial system is going to hell, money will soon be worthless, and an ammo can of silver is a wise retirement plan.  However, now that Trump is President and the future looks brighter for the average prepper, this world view may be changing.

Truer words were never spoken. A lot of financial talk around here is super doom and gloom. Lots of "short the whole market" talk by people I strongly suspect don't have a brokerage account. The Dow is always about to crash and silver is the only saving grace. (Not that metals are a bad idea, they're just overhyped.)

I don't share most of my investing thoughts here, it's kind of the wrong forum anyway. Those of us who trade need our own little corner to play in. Maybe I'm part of the problem because I'd rather talk knives, guns, and gear. A lot of "skills" boards (cooking, hunting, investing) seem a little neglected.

Offline Carl

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Re: Why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff?
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2017, 10:01:03 AM »
 Dave,you entered while I was typing,so I had to add that SKILL is something that they can't take from you and the tools of our 'lifestyle' have little value to anyone else.KARMA


 I firmly believe the stock market is unrealistically high and too prone to fluctuation on whim and rumor. It is high because of all that 'bailout' money that needed a place to go rather than return to the free spenders to maybe pay down the debt that they lay on the taxpayers back as if it was our fault that government regulation had stalled Banking and manufacturing and housing...now that they profit, the funds should be paid back...with interest.

  Remember what the banks in GREECE did?, your money in the bank can be stolenre valued just as quickly. I would not invest in such insecure ventures. Real value is in metals,land,and quality tools,CASH VALUE INSURANCE...solid investment that you can control and trust to where it is going.
Will you make a fortune?...NO,but you won't lose one either.

"Greek politicians, journalists, and civil servants are being asked to declare any large sums of cash or precious metals they may have stashed at home as part of the overhaul of the country's tax returns.

First reported by the Greek business news website Enikonomia.gr, the new addition to the rules mean Greeks will have to declare any cash holdings above 15,000 euros ($15,888) - outside of a bank - and any jewelry and precious stones worth over 30,000 euros.

The rules only apply for the whole household and will come into effect on January 1, 2016. It forms a "joint ministerial decision" by the Ministry of Justice and Finance, according to Enikonomia.gr, and sets out a new category of Greece's online tax declaration, called the "assets declaration."



https://www.ft.com/content/9963b74c-219c-11e5-aa5a-398b2169cf79

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-03/greek-banks-considering-30-haircut-deposits-over-%E2%82%AC8000-ft-reports

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/02/greeks-tax-mattress-gold-jewelry-greece.html

Stop complaining about life and start Celebrating it .

I've reached the age where there is little left to learn the hard way.

If you had only one year,one month,or one day...Would you live your life differently?

Offline surfivor

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Re: Why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff?
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2017, 10:11:09 AM »
yea,
well I have quite a bit of money just sitting in the bank. My mother thinks it's dumb. I might buy some more CD's.

I bought a car a while ago. Now I have two cars and I don't drive my truck much. I drive it once a week basically. I plan to wait until next year and if my financial situation is still looking good I may buy another truck camper which is sort of a luxury but it has it's uses for vacations and parking it at the beach on cold days.

 Then I hear all this talk by various people that you should just buy precious metals and everything is crap .. I do buy some silver from time to time, not a ton really though I have some from previous years .. I really don't know .. the guys that say just buy precious metals could be right or they could be wrong. I have no really firm feeling on it

 I do know that in the 1990's everyone convinced me to buy stocks and I never made any money from it and was very unimpressed with what happened in 2008

Should I buy an expensive guitar ? It's more my style to be frugal .. I already own several guitars but there's only two that I really like .. I actually just bought an electronic drum set for $800 as well as $400 worth of recording gear.
I own several surfboards, two canoes and I bought a kayak last summer

If I don't go to my sisters this year for Christmas I might take a trip to Mexico or Costa Rica to go surfing in the winter. If I go by myself I will be frugal and find a hotel that is around $30 a night or I might even bring my own tent and cook stove. That's how I have always done it even if I could afford better. When I went with my family to Costa Rica we spent a ton of money on going out to eat and more expensive accommodations. I will only fly someplace in the winter to visit my sister or go to the tropics, especially if I only have 2 weeks or less

 I do think the healthcare costs are crazy. I have been studying nutrition and plan to give a toastmasters speech on nutrition soon. I order all kinds of vitamin and mineral supplements and try to study alternative medicine and health so I can try to be my own doctor
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 10:28:11 AM by surfivor »

Offline Chris Gilliam

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Re: Why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff?
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2017, 03:41:49 PM »
Dividend stocks is all I do. Unless you count the $10 per month my YouTube channel makes.  ;D

Offline Alan Georges

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Re: Why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff?
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2017, 07:53:10 PM »
The problem is, modern survivalist finance is just boring as hell.  Live within your means.  Pay down debt.  Build up a reasonable cash cushion.  Make fairly conventional financial investments, without falling for market hype.  Watch out for black swans and telegraphed punches, but try not to be too paranoid about these things.  Make some small side-bets in precious metals – and maybe stock a few barter goods too if you're feeling twitchy.

I know none of this is outlandish (well, except maybe that last one), but what percentage of the general population actually does this?  It's all just common sense.  Until we get down to the part about black swans, there's nothing you couldn't comfortably discuss outside the preparedness community.

So why discuss the conventional stuff here at all?  When it comes to finances, I come here to catch glimpses of things that aren't widely reported but that could be harbingers of something bad or maybe even good.  Most of it doesn't pan out, for which I am grateful, but nonetheless I keep a weather eye on the economy and this board helps.

I swear, there are times it seems like "Baofeng" is Cantonese for "hot mess."

Offline trader-gkc

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Re: Why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff?
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2017, 03:30:01 PM »
Talk to your life insurance guy, they have riders that can be added to a life insurance policy,if your healthy now to cover some of those nursing home, long term care, etc. costs. There are other ways to plan for those kind of things through other types of insurance products too. As my old hockey coach used to say Prior Preparation Prevents Poor Performance.

Offline notmyrealname

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Re: Why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff?
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2017, 04:59:16 AM »
Financial preparedness requires the same discipline as learning any other skill.  And there are some great teachers out there,  Dave Ramsey for personal finance, and I also like Early Retirement Extreme, the Web site and book.

Jack said in one of his episodes that the next war will be financial.  I see a great risk here, but also it's fairly easy to prepare for if you can consistently manage your income and expenses and live below your means. 

Ferfal from Surviving in Argentina's book talks about owning real estate in secure neighborhoods, and basically all the old ways of making an income if the economy fails.

With most anything preparedness is one baby step at a time. 

If I die in my 90s with most resources gone, and I am not a burden to my kids, I would say that's an accomplishment.  It is a disappointment if the next generation was planning on inheritance.  I hope to leave something to my kids but that's up to God.  I can give the kids the right mindset to make their own way.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff?
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2017, 01:09:34 PM »
Something I've been slowly working on:

If you are the person who handles banking, investments, taxes, etc in your household, write up some notes for your spouse/heirs/executor in case you die or become incapacitated.

I've already got fairly good notes about our investments.  This year I'm also writing down notes as I work through TurboTax.  Yes, it takes twice as long to write the notes as it does to enter the tax data.

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: Why don't more preppers talk about financial stuff?
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2017, 03:38:49 AM »
Why don't preppers talk about financial stuff?

Many preppers seem to lump financial things into "threat / understanding the world" category instead of a line of prepping effort.  This is short sighted since money can be exchanged for goods and services.  Since money can be exchanged for goods and services, this means preps are money and money is a prep.  We need to have tangible goods in case the necessities of life are unavailable for a time, but those are extraordinary circumstances and most times money (or medium of exchange of some sort) will be able buy that which you need to survive.

The Great Depression and the Dust Bowl was a SHTF for many families that created dislocation.  People who by our standards were preppers (they canned, root cellared, gardened (in addition to their farms), mended or made their own clothes, hated debt, etc.) lost the jobs they were trained for and believed in, couldn't grow crops and were generally unable to stay where they were for a variety of reasons.  They were dislocated, circumstances forced them away from all their "preps" the prepping safety net of subsistence agriculture and activity.  A lot believed deeply in the agriculture model and saw it as a good, moral life.  Ones that were dislocated and moved to California for instance, found that the land was all owned and there was minimal opportunity to own their own small farm.  Talk about a SHTF.  If they had had greater financial resources they might have made it on their land longer or through the dust bowl.  Many never had a chance even had they prepared for that exact scenario, but it is still a good exercise to examine what you are preparing for?  What more can you do and where should your limited time and effort go to?
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