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Survivalism & Self Sufficiency Topics => Lady Survivors => Topic started by: Cool Blue on July 08, 2010, 12:01:25 AM

Title: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 08, 2010, 12:01:25 AM
Don't know how to prep for this one.  I didn't see it coming. 

A few days ago my laptop was on the fritz so I used my wife's computer and found that she had been visiting sites explaining the process for a divorce and on how to secretly send emails to lovers.

I asked her about it and she said he'd been unhappy for a while and had been thinking about leaving me.  This took me totally by surprise because I though life was great.  Honestly, on a scale of 10 I thought we were an 8.  Not pefect and wining the lottery but above average with great years to come.

We had a long talk and I thought she agreed to stay with me and work it out but she didn't seem too enthusiastic about it.

Today while she was out of the house I checked her computer again and found out that she had cheated on me despite her saying that she didn't yesterday.  I asked her about it, told her I forgave her and would be willing to continue our marriage.  I proposed marriage counseling but she wasn't interested. 

She said she still loved me but that "the butterflies" were gone and that she felt guilty for what she did and that I didn't deserve her.  She doesn't love the other guy and said it's a one-time thing.

She's now gone to a friend's house to stay for a week.  I insisted that I would stay in the home with our two very young girls since she was the one leaving us.

Any advice from you ladies?

I still love her but I'm through the sad/hurt stage, gone through the acceptance/forgiveness stage and am now in the angry stage.  I'm starting to think that I shouldn't take her back.

It's not so much that she cheated that upsets me, it's that even after offering to forgive she still has to think about if she wants to stay a family.

I'm also afraid that she'll take my little girls away.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: OKGranny on July 08, 2010, 02:11:14 AM
It was a long time ago when I went through a divorce with a cheating spouse but I can tell you it's going to be an emotional roller coaster for you for a while. I have no clue what "butterflies" are in a marriage but I can tell you that the "you don't deserve me" is an excuse. She wants out, for whatever reason. Whether she takes the girls or not kinda depends on what she has planned. If she wants to party around she might not want to take them, if her financial situation is going to be precarious she might not want to take them, otherwise, she probably will want to. I'm not trying to sound harsh but it's just the way it is. All you can be prepared for for a while is the fact that you're going to have good days, bad days, angry day, days of blaming yourself, days of blaming her, days of thinking maybe you can work it out and days of saying I never want her back. Get your affairs in order, get her name off your bank accounts, contact a lawyer, and just try to hang onto your sanity. It will get better, there honestly is light at the end of the tunnel.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Docwatmo on July 08, 2010, 06:43:50 AM
So sorry to hear this Cool Blue.  Your attitudes shows an incredible level of maturity that I don't think I could muster.

I don't have any advice having never gone through this.   I will keep you and your girls in my thoughts.  This is going to be a very trying time, support is going to be key.  Surround yourself with loved ones and accept any offers of help.  Don't go it alone.




Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: joeinwv on July 08, 2010, 07:19:12 AM
Very sorry to hear this - always tough when it comes as a blind side. I don't mean this to be harsh, and I am sure this is not what you want to hear - but you have to get moving right now. Your assets and way of life are in grave danger.

Cash out all of your bank accounts right now. Today. Cancel all your credit cards now. Call a lawyer now. If you have other assets that you can liquidate, do so. Cancel her cell phone if it is in your name. Call a lawyer. You will want to file for full custody and mediate from there.

This is not something new - she has been planning this for a while. She is not being honest with you. If this was a one time thing, she would likely be willing to work on things. She has gotten caught once.

In most states, it will be very easy for her to keep the house, the kids, alimony and child support. You will be providing insurance for both kids and have partial custody at best.

No one is going to feel sorry for you or act in your best interest. Certainly not her, her attorney or her new boyfriend. Protect yourself, protect your kids, protect your assets. Then you just have to move on.

If you don't get these things done, you are going to get a notice from her lawyer kicking you out of your house and your bank account is going to be empty. Seen it happen. Doesn't matter who did what - it matters who makes aggressive legal action first.

Again, sorry to lay it out this way, but with our legal system this is the only chance you have to get a fair settlement. There are a lot of guys out there who don't have their house, their car, their kids and are paying out $1k+ a month.

Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Morning Sunshine on July 08, 2010, 07:19:59 AM
ouch.  my heart is aching for you.

have you read the thread on how to survive a surprise divorce?  there is some good info in there too.
http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=5540.0 (http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=5540.0)
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Tommy Jefferson on July 08, 2010, 07:43:04 AM
I feel for you Cool Blue.  You have my heart-felt sympathy.

Read joeinwv's post.  Then read it again.  Do everything in it.  Don't fear "offending" her.  Don't hold out hope for reunion.  Expect her to dangle that carrot for advantage.  

It's time to terminate this business relationship.  Do what joeinwv said.  Do it today.

Sorry to be harsh, but I'm old enough to have watched this exact situation play out dozens of times.  
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: swoods on July 08, 2010, 08:17:32 AM
This is an emotional time and it is really hard to make choices. Call a lawyer, make sure you do exactly what the lawyer says, even if you feel it is being mean. She wants out and just doesn't have the guts to tell you. Make sure to protect yourself and your daughters.

I was on the receiving end of a cheater and by golly before he was done, he had filed bankruptcy and I got hauled into court and was made to pay all of the debts because they had been joint debts. My credit was ruined for many years. Had I listened to the lawyer it would not have happened. I didn't want to be a *itch and boy did I learn the hard way that I shoud have listened to the lawyer.

Let you friends and family help if they offer. You will need plenty of support and kind words to get through this. My thouhts are with you.

Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: TwoBluesMama on July 08, 2010, 08:23:23 AM
Wow - I'm not sure what to say except I am sending some prayers heavenward for you and your family.  It makes me sad for you and your children and even your wife as she really doesn't realize the destruction she is causing.  I know that people have a lot of differing faiths on this forum but I will say that only God has kept my marriage going strong for 28 years (together 34) as there are times when we both wanted to quit.  I'll be praying for you - hang in here.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: endurance on July 08, 2010, 08:34:01 AM
My sympathies Blue.  I went through a very painful divorce myself in 2005.  Mine wasn't a surprise; we started marriage counseling just 12 weeks after getting married, but take the advice of hiring a good attorney as soon as possible.  Get ready for games and manipulations.  Start treating this like business.  Start pulling together legal documents, bank statements, investment records, and anything else you can.  Burn a CD of everything that might be useful or important from her computer before she takes it.  For me, getting copies of digital pictures was important, but also be practical and get her history for the internet for the last three weeks, bank accounts that might be hidden, etc.

Personally, I took all the guns out of the house and put them in my brother's safe until the divorce was over.  Emotions can run hot and I'd rather just remove the possiblity of things escalating to that level.  I'm sure some will argue otherwise and they may have a valid point, but my opinion is it's best to just remove the opportunity.

Let your family and friends know, protect your assets, and lean on those that will be there for you.  Consider a therapist or counselor to help you and those little girls.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 08, 2010, 08:45:56 AM
ouch.  my heart is aching for you.

have you read the thread on how to survive a surprise divorce?  there is some good info in there too.
http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=5540.0 (http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=5540.0)

Thanks I'll check this out ASAP.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 08, 2010, 08:57:18 AM
Thanks folks.  Lots of good advice that I hadn't thought of yet.

I appreciate the thoughts an prayers too.

I definitely have to start thinking of a "Plan B".

Fortunately my wife is independent and has always insisted that we keep our finances separate when possible.  Just last week we were approved for a joint consolidation loan that would have merged all our debts at a lower interest (3/4 of the debt is hers).  Luckily we haven't signed the papers yet.

Frankly, if I was on my own I'd actually be better off financially.

She's now agreed to marriage counseling and we're just waiting for a call back from a few places I called.  She doesn't seem to enthusiastic though and has only promised to try for a few months.

We're both in the house now, I took the week off of work.  She just got back from picking up some of her stuff from her mothers house.  When she got in the house she hugged me for long time and cried.  Don't know if that is a good sign...lol
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: BatonRouge Bill on July 08, 2010, 09:23:56 AM
Done that myself after 24 years of marriage. My girls made it clear to her if she left they were staying, my girls are 19 and 16 now. If divorce is certain take your heart out of it, and fully engage your brain. I tapped the phones to find out what was going on in her mind only to find out her older sister was 2/3 thru a bitter divorce and they were making comparisons at what my bro-in-law was a no good bastard and how I was just like him. My brother in law was/is a good man just his wife has 7 figure spending habits on his 6 figure income. Which led him to bankruptcy twice. No cheaters just women who felt they deserved better. In my case hurricane Katrina flooded out my two rentals in New Orleans area and the added stress of destitute family members and financial stress of loosing 1/4 of my net worth was tough and so she took 1/2 of what was left. Like I said take your heart out and engage your mind. First, visit every good lawyer in town and be sure to be recorded for the visit. This only leave 2nd rate lawyers for her to choose from. 2nd Give here at least half of your net worth, preferably wired to her new bank account from the old one with agreement paperwork signed and notarized. She will want a new start with new furniture. Help her to get a new place, leaving all the old furniture in your home which in your children's mind will always be home!!!! You will be up to your eyeballs in debt for sure but trust me it'll be easier on your heart. Get agreements drawn up early as possible signed and notarized. And don't forget about your 401K. Split it early or  buy her out and have paperwork notarized. Be very careful with daughters.  A bitter ex can poison the minds of young girls easily. Never speak negatively of your ex in front of your kids and be sure they notice it...point it out. They will begin to make comparisons on their own and that may be your only grace if she decides to live a live of dissing you.
Good luck with it all. By the way my divorce was as painless as they get. Me and my ex did have enough sense not to fight. I would fix her faucets  and she would occasionally clean the house for me behind the girls..50 50 custody with me as the domiciliary parent. No child support and I keep them in the best private schools. She claims my youngest on taxes. but the girls are with me 26 days out the month and just occasionally stay with their mother who only live 4 Miles away..and they both drive! Her sister is living in assisted housing now. They lost almost everything. Head in Heart out and don't feed the animals (lawyers).
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: joeinwv on July 08, 2010, 09:29:47 AM
....
We're both in the house now, I took the week off of work.  She just got back from picking up some of her stuff from her mothers house.  When she got in the house she hugged me for long time and cried.  Don't know if that is a good sign...lol

I hate to be this guy - she has a lawyer. This reconciliation is going to be considered a 'cooling off' period and displays her efforts to try and 'make things work'. In my estimate, she is not ready to move in with the other guy or things didn't work out as planned in that area. The reason for your divorce is now shifting from her cheating on you, to you both having irreconcilable differences in your marriage. You have already expressed that you are not that affected by the infidelity and are willing to move forward.

You have to have a business mindset and be extremely objective about this situation. If not, you will be cleaned out. Even if your finances are separate, you are married - those debts are yours as well and you will end up with at least part of them.

Get your money out of the bank, get your guns out of the house, get any coins, gold, etc out of the house. Turn it into cash or physically hide it. In the near future, you are going to be listing all of your assets - the less that exists on paper, the better.

My father in law is still paying alimony, 27 years after the divorce - and she gets 1/2 his pension.

Lawyer up my friend - at the very least you need to be getting some legal advice while in counseling.

If this is a workable marriage, then she needs to be doing everything in her power to re-establish your trust and display her remorse for her actions. At this point, it sounds like she is sorry you found out. I hate to say it, there are still things you don't know.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: endurance on July 08, 2010, 09:52:15 AM
Fortunately my wife is independent and has always insisted that we keep our finances separate when possible.  Just last week we were approved for a joint consolidation loan that would have merged all our debts at a lower interest (3/4 of the debt is hers).  Luckily we haven't signed the papers yet.
Actually, you did sign papers.  That marriage license means that half of her debt is your debt and half of your assets are her assets.  My ex only backed off trying to go after my pre-marital assets when my attorney explained that half her retirement could be mine (she made more than me before the marriage).

I say do the counseling for yourself.  You'll learn some things that may prevent ever being in the same situation again.  You'll also aleve yourself of any remaining guilt that you could have done more.  But, don't be blind, hire an attorney, get your friends and family on your side, and don't let yourself get manipulated into doing things you wouldn't normally do.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Dagny on July 08, 2010, 09:55:10 AM
I think Joe has some very pragmatic advice for you. Of course none of us here on the forum know the whole story, but you sound like a decent guy and you need to protect yourself and your rights as a father. It is ABSOLUTELY IMPERATIVE that you protect your rights as a father! If it does come to divorce, settle for nothing less than joint custody. You sound like you are hurting and that you are very willing to compromise, which in many ways is a good thing, but PLEASE do not let your willingness to jeopardize your access to your girls. They need their dad.

What frightens me about this situation is that your wife sounds like she is an emotionally detached place as well as trying to cut you off from her life. Nothing could be worse for your girls than if she found another man on the internet and moved across the country. It happens.

Not to sound like divorce is a done deal for you. It is also imperative that you find a GOOD marriage counselor that is an advocate for your *marriage*. There are probably 5 crappy psychologists for every good one. Some actually do more damage than good. A lot of marriage counselors almost seem to operate as if counseling is just a way to give individual partners the "permission" they need to end the marriage. (Especially a lot of female psychologists who view marriage as an obstacle to female independence.) If you have any married friends that went through counseling and it saved or strengthened their marriage, get a recommendation from THEM.

A couple things I'd like to see a marriage counselor point out:

1. Realistic expectations. Not every year or moment of a marriage is going to be "butterflies", and if THAT is her expectation, she is not living in reality. That kind of passion CAN be present in a marriage, but it's not going to be there 24/7 for your entire marriage. Marriage is not a snapsot - it is the whole deal, and that includes times when passion wanes.  A good marriage you will get it back, but both partners need to INVEST in getting it back. On the flip side, this requires effort, and you should BOTH be working to try to re-ignite passion as part of the healing process if you go into counseling.

2. You have kids, so the divorce you mean you divide your family *forever*. Once you have kids, you cannot rip up the paperwork and go your separate ways. This divorce WILL affect your kids and grandkids in ways you cannot yet imagine.  My parents were divorced 20 years ago, as were my husband's parents. The hoops we have to jump through - what we have to go through for holidays and gatherings, double the phone calls, the bitter resentments that crop up with subsequent marriages. These will be the realities in your life moving forward if you divorce. She needs to think LONG and HARD about the long-term consequences of divorce. A lot of women who do what she is doing, discover that in the long run they are no happier with the next man than they were with the first, and now they have a shattered family to boot.

This is not to lay it ALL on her. It is highly unlikely that you have no ownership in this as well, but obviously we can't know your whole situation from a forum post. But it is my firm belief that in the substantial majority of divorce cases, the marriage could have been saved if BOTH partners went into it with the attitude of "What can *I* do to make this marriage amazing?" When ONE spouse does that, it can improve the marriage tenfold, and when BOTH do it, it's truly amazing what can happen.

Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: BatonRouge Bill on July 08, 2010, 10:08:53 AM
I hate to be this guy - she has a lawyer. This reconciliation is going to be considered a 'cooling off' period and displays her efforts to try and 'make things work'. In my estimate, she is not ready to move in with the other guy or things didn't work out as planned in that area. The reason for your divorce is now shifting from her cheating on you, to you both having irreconcilable differences in your marriage. You have already expressed that you are not that affected by the infidelity and are willing to move forward.
You have to have a business mindset and be extremely objective about this situation. If not, you will be cleaned out. Even if your finances are separate, you are married - those debts are yours as well and you will end up with at least part of them.
Get your money out of the bank, get your guns out of the house, get any coins, gold, etc out of the house. Turn it into cash or physically hide it. In the near future, you are going to be listing all of your assets - the less that exists on paper, the better.
She definitly appears to be working it by the legal playbook. Looks like she has her head in and her heart out. Procede with caution my friend, looks like rough waters ahead.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: donaldj on July 08, 2010, 10:25:10 AM
The advice given here has been excellent. I wish I had this kind of support when I got divorced from my first wife.

Some points, in no particular order...

1. Your wife turned to strangers on the internet to hook up with and seek some "fun". She didn't come to you to discuss things, she didn't confide in you that she hasn't been "feeling it" for some time. She took it to others to get some type of satisfaction. That's just not being honest. After that, how do you trust her?

1a. If you can't trust her with the marriage, believe me, you can't trust her not to aggressively start divorce proceedings without warning you. If you don't like being blind-sided, lawyer up now.

2. My ex did the same hug and cry maneuver. She was just at her lawyer's office, and the "finality" is hitting her. Yup, she's going through with it, and the crying is either just an emotional reaction to knowing she's going to hurt you, or the reality of the marriage-ending is setting in. It isn't "hope".

3. Her acceptance of marriage counseling is probably lawyer-advised. Her lawyer likely knows she cheated (I'm sure he asked her point-blank), and he needs some ammo to help shore up his case on the children's custody. While it's hard for fathers to get a fair shake in custody matters, cheating and drug use are two very good avenues.

4. Do NOT go out and cheat or play the field just because she did. If she strongly wants custody, and has financial means, her lawyer could have a PI tailing you to dredge up material. I'm not being paranoid; I've seen this done.

5. Consider filing divorce NOW on the grounds of infidelity. Yes, she will be served with papers, yes it will hit her hard. Explain to her that while you're willing to work on things, you must legally protect yourself and access to your children in the meantime. YOU filing first carries some significant advantages.



Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 08, 2010, 10:26:53 AM
Few quick notes:

I don't think she has a lawyer, in fact she states she wants to avoid courts.  That being said she and I are both legal assistants.

She insisted that "no matter what happens you can see your kids as much as you want".  I interpreted this as 50-50 custody when really she meant I could stop by anytime for a few hours.  She's taken my interpretation as evidence that I want to steal the kids.

Her father died very recently and I think that may be playing a role in it.

Lastly there is zero chance of her leaving me for the other guy.  He's much older than she is, he's already married and even she admits, not very attractive ( I know him and can confirm).
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 08, 2010, 10:34:26 AM

A couple things I'd like to see a marriage counselor point out:

1. Realistic expectations. Not every year or moment of a marriage is going to be "butterflies", and if THAT is her expectation, she is not living in reality. That kind of passion CAN be present in a marriage, but it's not going to be there 24/7 for your entire marriage. Marriage is not a snapsot - it is the whole deal, and that includes times when passion wanes.  A good marriage you will get it back, but both partners need to INVEST in getting it back. On the flip side, this requires effort, and you should BOTH be working to try to re-ignite passion as part of the healing process if you go into counseling.

2. You have kids, so the divorce you mean you divide your family *forever*. Once you have kids, you cannot rip up the paperwork and go your separate ways. This divorce WILL affect your kids and grandkids in ways you cannot yet imagine.  My parents were divorced 20 years ago, as were my husband's parents. The hoops we have to jump through - what we have to go through for holidays and gatherings, double the phone calls, the bitter resentments that crop up with subsequent marriages. These will be the realities in your life moving forward if you divorce. She needs to think LONG and HARD about the long-term consequences of divorce. A lot of women who do what she is doing, discover that in the long run they are no happier with the next man than they were with the first, and now they have a shattered family to boot.

This is not to lay it ALL on her. It is highly unlikely that you have no ownership in this as well, but obviously we can't know your whole situation from a forum post. But it is my firm belief that in the substantial majority of divorce cases, the marriage could have been saved if BOTH partners went into it with the attitude of "What can *I* do to make this marriage amazing?" When ONE spouse does that, it can improve the marriage tenfold, and when BOTH do it, it's truly amazing what can happen.



This is all very much in line with what I'm thinking.

I've actually got 3 counselors lined up, lol.

My workplace has a program to help with matter like this and will pay for a few sessions.

The local church where we were married. Advantage is we know the people.

A Christian based group that has a professional psychologist.

Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 08, 2010, 10:43:18 AM

1. Your wife turned to strangers on the internet to hook up with and seek some "fun". She didn't come to you to discuss things, she didn't confide in you that she hasn't been "feeling it" for some time. She took it to others to get some type of satisfaction. That's just not being honest. After that, how do you trust her?


Some good points thanks.

One of the complications however is that she didn't just hook up with a stranger on the internet.  It's actually the husband of a relative of hers.  Once it gets out, her whole family is going to be torn apart.

I told her that she should tell her mother because it's going to get out eventually anyway.

I said if this is to work that guy needs to stay away from you forever meaning any family event he's at you can't be there. 

She doesn't seem keen on having to choose between her family and "our family". 
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: idelphic on July 08, 2010, 12:01:34 PM
Few quick notes:

I don't think she has a lawyer, in fact she states she wants to avoid courts.  That being said she and I are both legal assistants.

She insisted that "no matter what happens you can see your kids as much as you want".  I interpreted this as 50-50 custody when really she meant I could stop by anytime for a few hours.  She's taken my interpretation as evidence that I want to steal the kids.

FAIL!..  When my wife and I separated She said about the same thing,..  She pretty much took our son and ran.  She wanted to keep child support out of the court too,.. HA,.. what a joke that was.  BY LAW it had to.  I've barely seen my son in 10 years.  I had to move out of state for work, then she moved also,.. making it 1000% more difficult to get to him.  It's a 2 day drive one way to see him, and flying is just as expensive...
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 08, 2010, 12:03:11 PM
FAIL!..  When my wife and I separated She said about the same thing,..  She pretty much took our son and ran.  She wanted to keep child support out of the court too,.. HA,.. what a joke that was.  BY LAW it had to.  I've barely seen my son in 10 years.  I had to move out of state for work, then she moved also,.. making it 1000% more difficult to get to him.  It's a 2 day drive one way to see him, and flying is just as expensive...

Oh man that sucks.  I'm very sorry.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: ncjeeper on July 08, 2010, 12:09:35 PM
Good luck my brother.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: ZenGunFighter on July 08, 2010, 01:05:18 PM
Quote
Today while she was out of the house I checked her computer again and found out that she had cheated on me despite her saying that she didn't yesterday.  I asked her about it, told her I forgave her and would be willing to continue our marriage.

Trust me, I have painful, personal experience with this, forgiving her that easily was a mistake. Makes you look needy, an easy push over. Not attractive. At all. Where's the passion? You should have been FURIOUS.  Butterflies=passion. missing...
I'm not blaming you, just informing you as more of a 'tactical' matter


We're both in the house now, I took the week off of work.  She just got back from picking up some of her stuff from her mothers house.  When she got in the house she hugged me for long time and cried.  Don't know if that is a good sign...lol


By leaving the household, she deserted you. She may have been coached to move back in to remove her desertion as grounds for you to use against her.  Remember, you need to think tactically. I've seen this over and over. the woman leaves, and all of a sudden is back, willing (unentheusiatically) to go to concilling. All thie time having her lawyer working on the divorce.

Take steps to protect yourself yesterday!!! Doesn't mean you can't still try to make things work.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: endurance on July 08, 2010, 01:10:34 PM
Don't let the negative stories get you down, just take heed of the lessons.  You're actually in an a better position than most men are at the moment.  You're in the house, she's the one that wants the divorce, and you have the kids living with you.  It's a lot easier to paint a picture to the court that you're the responsible one who's looking out for the best interest of your kids.

I've also seen it time and time again; the one who wants the divorce almost always sacrifices the most in the settlement/mediation discussions.  It's a position of advantage to be patient when they're eager to move on with their lives and you're the one that can slow the process down.

Additionally, getting an attorney for advice and counsel is not necessarily escalating.  He/she can give you advice without ever getting formally involved if you want to keep it that way.  Just remember, by law, they have to look out for your best interest once you hire them.  Who else do you ever deal with that has that obligation?  That said, there are some sheisters out there, so try to get one by referral rather than picking one out of the phone book.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 08, 2010, 01:53:04 PM
Don't let the negative stories get you down, just take heed of the lessons.  You're actually in an a better position than most men are at the moment.  You're in the house, she's the one that wants the divorce, and you have the kids living with you.  It's a lot easier to paint a picture to the court that you're the responsible one who's looking out for the best interest of your kids.

I've also seen it time and time again; the one who wants the divorce almost always sacrifices the most in the settlement/mediation discussions.  It's a position of advantage to be patient when they're eager to move on with their lives and you're the one that can slow the process down.

Additionally, getting an attorney for advice and counsel is not necessarily escalating.  He/she can give you advice without ever getting formally involved if you want to keep it that way.  Just remember, by law, they have to look out for your best interest once you hire them.  Who else do you ever deal with that has that obligation?  That said, there are some sheisters out there, so try to get one by referral rather than picking one out of the phone book.

That's what I'm hoping by staying in the house.  I told her "You're the one in the wrong who hurt me; why should I be punished further by having to move out?".

We're both refusing to move out at this point.

If I have to leave the house I'm insisting that I take one of the kids with me so she doesn't have to worry about me leaving with them. 

I'm thinking of taking my 3 year old to the movies to see Shrek tonight...should I leave the house at all?

Tomorrow I'm going to visit one of my friends who recently went through a nasty divorce.  Get some advice from him.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Dagny on July 08, 2010, 03:14:43 PM
Quote
She wanted to keep child support out of the court too,.. HA,.. what a joke that was.  BY LAW it had to.  I've barely seen my son in 10 years.  I had to move out of state for work, then she moved also,.. making it 1000% more difficult to get to him.  It's a 2 day drive one way to see him, and flying is just as expensive...

I wish I could convince you to move to wherever your son is, DEMAND your paternal rights, even if it means working digging ditches. No job is worth depriving a child of his father, especially if it's not one that pays enough to enable your freedom to fly out for visits. Imagine if there were a fatherhood movement where whenever a mother took children away from their fathers, the fathers followed. Taking a child away from a parent should be seen as socially intolerable, IMO. And specifically, I think our society is suffering from an epidemic of fatherlessness. While the fathers that ARE involved, are arguably more involved than ever before, the epidemic of the absent father is part of what contributes to our excessively feminized society.

To the OP, if divorce happens I say again, PLEASE do not let this happen. If she tries to pull that, don't let her get away with it, even if you have to follow her 2000 miles away. It's not even about your personal desire and right to be a dad (which are also valid), but your kids NEED you. I HATE this bullshit from divorced women that they "don't need a man" i.e. their ex. If you have kids, YEAH, YOU DO! While I give full respect to the single moms (and dads) out there that are taking on the huge job parenthood alone due to circumstances beyond their control, parenthood is NOT a one-person job.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: BatonRouge Bill on July 08, 2010, 03:21:13 PM
That's what I'm hoping by staying in the house.  I told her "You're the one in the wrong who hurt me; why should I be punished further by having to move out?".
We're both refusing to move out at this point.
If I have to leave the house I'm insisting that I take one of the kids with me so she doesn't have to worry about me leaving with them. 
I'm thinking of taking my 3 year old to the movies to see Shrek tonight...should I leave the house at all?Tomorrow I'm going to visit one of my friends who recently went through a nasty divorce.  Get some advice from him.
Dude, you let her back in now she is laying down the rules on how this is going to be played and you are playing the part like it's scripted. Guys really suck at this kind of stuff. Women are masters of verbal and social skills. Men are more logical and engineering oriented. I believe you when you said you were unprepared or at least didn't see the warning signs. I watched a coworker/friend of mine go thru a nasty one and when he bugged his phones he really had his heart broken as his wife and her lover discussed their sexcapades like highschoolers sneaking around and he held his heart and would kiss his wife good-by in the morning all the while knowing why she was shirking his bed. He did the PI thing and got photos because he wanted her to have the scarlet A as grounds for divorce and that would allow him to be married again in church and she couldn't. Good luck and be careful she doesn't Start a fight in front of her friends and call the police play the domestic violence card on you. Don't drink alcohol until this is settled.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: MTUCache on July 08, 2010, 03:26:19 PM
Just echoing everyone else.... I feel for you, and I can't imagine the amount of pain that I would be in in your situation.

Get a lawyer. Document everything.

The research she was doing on-line regarding cheating.
The consolidating of debt.
The misunderstanding of the comment about "seeing your kids whenever you want".
The coming back to the household after leaving.

Each one of these by themselves may seem innocent, like she's just confused. All of them together smack of coaching, from her lawyer, prepping her case against you and giving herself time to really get an advantage when/if she does go to court.

You don't have to fight dirty (yet), but you need to be prepared to defend yourself from her fighting dirty.
This site is all about prepping. Some of it is expensive.
What's the worst thing that can happen if you hire a lawyer and wind up not needing him? You spend a lot of money on them.
What's the worst thing that can happen if you don't get some counsel right now? You get completely screwed monetarily, you lose your house, you lose your kids, and your entire life gets turned upside down.

I'm not saying your wife is playing you. I'm saying she could be. Let's be honest here, her track record has taken a bit of a hit at this point, right? It's not entirely out of the question that she's spending every second away from you looking through bank records, writing down serial numbers, and getting coached by her lawyer about how to make sure she gets the kids, the money, and the house. It would be crazy for you not to be getting similar coaching and to be keeping your own records of what's going on. Hopefully you'll never have to use it and everything with get reconciled.... but if the SHTF you'd better be left with a hell of a lot more than your BOB. ;)
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: MTUCache on July 08, 2010, 03:29:12 PM
Good luck and be careful she doesn't Start a fight in front of her friends and call the police play the domestic violence card on you. Don't drink alcohol until this is settled.
Bingo.

This is exactly the types of things that her lawyer will have her on the lookout for. "Opportunities" just like these could be the entire reason why she's back in the house. Between her, a lawyer, and a PI, there's a lot of people who could be looking for anything on you right now. I'd take this a step further and start avoiding anything that could be portrayed as negative to the judge... I'm talking porn, alcohol, talking to single women, etc. They'll find a way to make anything you do look bad in front of a judge. Just because she's covered in mud doesn't mean that they're not going to be digging on you too.

The way the system is set up for fathers in these kinds of cases, you're going to have to be a freaking angel to even have a shot at keeping your kids if she decides to fight dirty.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Heavy G on July 08, 2010, 04:45:05 PM
Cool Blue:

I'm sorry to hear this.

I suggest you do the things mentioned above (document everything, especially the statement about seeing the kids) and take the financial precautions.

Try to have a witness around around when you're with her.  If she makes up a restraining order story (and it doesn't sound like she's in that frame of mind) you might lose your right to possess a firearm. 

This sounds harsh, but treat her like an adversary in the biggest business matter of your life.  Because it is. 

I have several friends who are totally decent guys--they tried and tried like you are and now don't have their kids, their money, or their guns (listed in order of importance).

Wishing you the best and I sent a prayer my friend.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: endurance on July 08, 2010, 04:55:15 PM
Try to have a witness around around when you're with her.  If she makes up a restraining order story (and it doesn't sound like she's in that frame of mind) you might lose your right to possess a firearm. 
My ex went the restraining order route in retaliation for taking all my stuff out of the house while she was at work.  Fortunately the judge saw the light that I was the one who initiated the divorce, I was the one who moved out to get away from her, and she was the one who purchased a new shotgun after our paperwork was filed.  It was dismissed, but I was fighting to save my career at that point.  I still hate the fact that it remains a permanent public record.  We've reconciled since then, but that's still my biggest resentment I harbor from the divorce; even more than the money I lost in the settlement and money wasted on the attorneys.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: MightyRunt on July 08, 2010, 06:02:05 PM
Sounds like you're getting good solid advice here. I'll just throw in one bit of personal advice from experience with DH's divorce before we met. His ex was really a psycho nut job. His daughter was 8 when they separated and he wanted desperately to protect her from the woman.  He felt compelled to try to make her understand what an untrustworthy and evil human being her mother was. He tried to make her see that falling for her mother's act would cause her lots of emotional pain. . But an 8 year old can't handle that. Instead of insulating her from her mom, his behavior forced her to defend her mom and cling to her.  She's 39 now and has seen the light for herself years ago but she still believes that her Dad "couldn't put aside his resentments to put her first".  It's so easy to see the error of his thinking, but it's also an easy trap to fall into. Never ever speak badly about your wife to your children for any reason. They cannot assimilate things like deception or badness.  If there is anything they need to know about her, they'll see it in their own time. It sounds like you're not the sort of person to take potshots at her, but things can heat up and the temptation could arise. Just be forewarned.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Sister Wolf on July 08, 2010, 06:57:40 PM
QUIT IGNORING THE MEN HERE!

Damn it, Blue, you're driving on the wrong side of the road and you have 15 people telling you to get the hell over on the right side, and you're like, "I'll think about it".

You. Are. Going. To. Lose. EVERYTHING.

I'm heartbroken for you.  What you're going through is so awful.  But seriously, you've got SUCH good advice on this page.  I'd love to see the injured party (usually the husband) WIN for once.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: OKGranny on July 08, 2010, 07:46:41 PM
Thank You Sister Wolf. I said it in my original post, the men have stated it better and all I get from Blue is "I don't want to believe it" which to a point I understand but Blue, even if all of us are wrong, which I seriously doubt, CYA is always, always the smart thing to do. Getting prepared in case we are right and you are wrong is just like prepping for any disaster you hope won't happen, isn't it?
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 08, 2010, 08:21:35 PM
Sorry guys, I'm not ignoring you all.  I wound up taking my daughter to the movies tonight.

Things are in motion but I don't want to discuss the details here if you know what I mean.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: BatonRouge Bill on July 08, 2010, 08:33:48 PM
enough said  ;)
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: MTUCache on July 08, 2010, 08:37:22 PM
Things are in motion but I don't want to discuss the details here if you know what I mean.
Glad to hear you're taking care of what you need to take care of.

Best of luck to you. I hope everything ends up happily-ever-after, or as close to it as you decide you want it. ;)
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Mr. Bill on July 08, 2010, 09:23:40 PM
I don't want to sound contrary, because there's a lot of good prepping advice in this thread.  But please -- there's only so far you can go with advice from people who don't know you, don't know your wife, and are hundreds or thousands of miles away.

The most important thing (yes, this is advice from someone thousands of miles away who doesn't know you): Decide what you want.  Do you want to save the marriage?  There are some preps you can make in case it fails, but there are some preps that clearly tell her that you've decided it's over.  Think that through before you act.

Her father died very recently and I think that may be playing a role in it.

This is significant.  Do you understand how this has affected her?  Is she having a mid-life crisis, along the lines of "Life is too short, I should be getting what I want"?
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Dainty on July 08, 2010, 10:15:35 PM
You mentioned seeking out a Christian group....I recommend watching the movie Fireproof and perhaps checking out the book written with it afterwards. If nothing else, it's inspirational. :) It might give you some insight onto how to encourage those "butterflies" in her heart again, and it's a movie the whole family can watch and enjoy if you so wish. :)

Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: PistolWhipped on July 08, 2010, 11:03:06 PM
I guess it might just be me, but when I read your post, my first thought was "To Hell with that lying, cheating whore." (Well, my exact though was a little more colorful, but to that effect.) You deserve better than that.

Do what others have said.  At this point, she is an adversary.  Work on covering your ass if she decides to make this thing nasty, and start building up your own plan of attack.  I understand if you still love her.  She's the mother of your children, I'd expect nothing less.   I understand you want it to work.  Again, she's your kids mom, and you'd like to keep a whole family, if not for you then for them at least.  But if she's decided that she wants a divorce, she's been thinking about it and talking herself into it for a LONG time.  And she's been researching and preparing before you had any idea something as wrong.  Now YOU need to act if you don't want to get screwed out of your kids, your home, and your money.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Dylboz on July 09, 2010, 12:34:48 AM
I have been in this exact same situation, though my ex was a lot less "nice" about it. When confronted with the proof she was cheating (she got a new cell phone, and the old one she left in the drawer was full of explicit texts with an ex-boyfriend, another dude she met at a bar, and gossip about all of it and comments about how I was oblivious. After the big blow up, she up and left in the morning). IT. WAS. OVER.

And, frankly, it's over for you,too. Seriously, cut your losses. Grieve, but don't grovel. You will survive, and recover. If you're as lucky as me, you'll find a relationship that constantly makes you grateful and happy, and also makes you wonder what you were thinking all those years. Right now, your geusstimate of an "8 out of 10" lacks the necessary context. Once you date around, and find a woman who truly loves you for who you are, and whom you love back just as much, that 8 will drop to .08 with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

In the meantime, don't set yourself up for more hurt or potential financial RUIN. You have a whole marriage worth of property (and maybe debt... see below) to divide up and settle, and you have to protect yourself and your future, you MUST look out for your best interests. Times have gotten tough, so you need to figure out how to hang on to that better life! Listen, as I hinted above, I found out during the settlement negotiations that my ex had run up $30K in credit card debt living her "other life" behind my back. I work in the newspaper business, and we stay late getting the paper ready for early morning delivery, noon-10pm most days, while my ex worked in a college lab from 8am-4pm. She had a lot of time to screw around on me, and she did so with abandon for AT LEAST the last year of our 4 year marriage. She also ran our finances, with which I foolishly trusted her, and that's how she hid all that reckless spending, though she demanded more and more and more of my paychecks to pay the bills all the time. She was even paying her student loans with my money, despite earning about 20% MORE than me, meanwhile I was deferring mine because I could not afford to pay them with what she left me with each month! I was fortunately clearheaded (and desperate) enough by negotiation time to drive a very hard bargain, keep my crappy old cars and my house (minus most of the furniture she took), and agree to only pay a third of that debt, despite the laws in Arizona making it half mine. Nonetheless, we have now been divorced longer that we were married, but I am STILL paying that off, from a WAGE GARNISHMENT!

Point being, you have A LOT of legal issues to worry about RIGHT NOW. This is the time to look after yourself, and not get stuck in the past worrying about what might have been or where you went wrong. This is your own personal TEOTWAWKI. Chances are, you are going to keep finding out more and more stuff you wish you didn't know about her. Your opinion of your wife will continue to change -for the worse- and you really don't want to give her the advantage here. She's been planning this quite a while, she has the element of surprise in her favor, and your feelings are just another weapon in her arsenall. Don't concede the strategic advantage due to your emotional bewilderment. Don't do anything rash! You can deal with your emotions later... HONESTLY, now is not the time. Right now, you two are adversaries, and the sooner you come to grips with that reality, the better.

And cheer up. The best years of your life are ahead of you, not behind you! I PROMISE!t  ;) (even though I'm just an internet stranger, I've been right where you are).
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 09, 2010, 04:15:36 AM

This is significant.  Do you understand how this has affected her?  Is she having a mid-life crisis, along the lines of "Life is too short, I should be getting what I want"?


I think that along with the fact that we have two small children and her having difficulty dealing with the fact that she's now in her 30s is a part of it.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: MTUCache on July 09, 2010, 07:28:38 AM
I think that along with the fact that we have two small children and her having difficulty dealing with the fact that she's now in her 30s is a part of it.
Unfortunately, while that may explain her behavior, it doesn't justify or excuse it.

Everyday there's women out there who wake up to find themselves another day older with responsibilities, children, husbands, and family problems. Everyday they worry about becoming less like the carefree and sexy woman they want to be. And everyday 99% of them treat the people in their lives with respect and do the things that need to be done.

I might be able to understand your desire for forgiveness and reconciliation if this was a one-time, spur-of-the-moment bad decision. This was pre-meditated, planned-out, covered-up, and downright deceitful. She knew what she was doing was disrespectful to you, would tear apart your family, and would break your heart. She thought about those things at some point and still decided to do this.

I get people have emotional and psychological problems... I just don't understand why they're able to use that as an excuse when there's hundreds of thousands of other people out there with the same problems who deal with them and don't ruin peoples' lives.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: liftsboxes on July 09, 2010, 07:37:03 AM
Lots of good advice here one thing to add now.

Keep every receipt for things you do with or for your children.  Everything.  Use them during child support negotiations.  Better to have a smaller set amount that you must pay and the ability to do things on a discretionary basis.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: chris on July 09, 2010, 10:42:06 PM
Get a lawyer and go for the jugular. Divorce is like war, cease fires are the enemies way of pacifying you while they regroup.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Pathfinder on July 10, 2010, 06:41:02 AM
Mr. Bill is right we don't know you or the specifics. But he is wrong in doing what you want to do. Your wife is showing every sign of stalling, diverting attention, mis-directing, etc. on her way out. She has been found out, and does not know how to deal with the discovery, she has lost her control over the situation.

Listen son, she will move on. Even if you go through counseling (I spent damn near 4 years in marriage counseling trying to make it work) her attitude right now guarantees failure. Do not expect an hourly counselor to fix that.

Protect yourself and your girls, secure your stuff and finances, and get a lawyer - yesterday! Go through the process if you feel you must, but do so from a position of strength. BTW - tell her nothing of what you are doing.

And leave the kids out of it. Love them, protect them, tell them nothing will ever change your love for them.

Apropos of nothing - my marriage counseling consisted mainly of me sitting silently while the counselor spent the whole hour talking with my ex - about my ex's problems. Do not be surprised if the same things happen to you - if you go that route.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Who...me? on July 10, 2010, 09:12:59 AM
CB,

I really feel for you man.  I was in the same position you are now and know how bad it sucks and the swing of feelings that run through your head.  I remember the arguments I had with myself as one side of my brain was feeling the anger and betrayal of the situation, while the other kept reminding me of the love I had for her and the wonderful relationship we enjoyed...right up to the point where I  found out she was a lying, cheating, untrustworthy so and so. 

I know how hard it is to change gears (especially as this is such a shock) from your daily life to the end of a period of your life.  And make no mistake.  Your life has been forever altered.  No matter what the end result is, divorce or reconciliation, things will never be the same.  For good or bad that is just the reality of the situation.

Remember that she has betrayed your trust and no matter what your intentions you just can't give that trust back. She has to earn it, if she even can, and that is a hard road to walk.  For a long time...maybe for the rest of your lives there will be doubt in the back (and sometimes in the front) of your mind when she tells you something.  That nagging voice that questions the truth of her statements and intentions.

But for the moment...it is up to you to defend yourself and your children.  Your kids you say?  Why would you need to defend them from their mother?  She would never harm them as she loves them so much...right?  But she already has put herself in front of their well being and needs.  NO...I am not saying she would ever physically harm them...but their mental state and need of a stable base has been shaken by the selfish act of their mother.  Oh...but we will not tell them what happened and everything will, in their eyes, be the same as always.  Don't sell you kids short.  Kids are ways smarter and more perceptive than we generally give them credit for.  We have a habit of, on one hand, telling anyone who will listen how smart they are while at the same time assuming that they are just kids and don't "get" adult themes.  Ya right.

So...re-read the advice previously given and take it to heart.  Don't forget for a moment that at this point in time you are in a battle for the survival of yourself and your family.  No matter what the end result is, at this moment you, must (at least in your head) be ruthless and selfish thinking only of you and your kids.  Don't believe a thing your wife says and WATCH YOUR BACK. 

Lawyer up.  Doesn't necessarily mean that you need to initiate anything...just talk to one and get his advice on protecting yourself.

Like I said...things may change and you may work things out and all will be well with the world.  And I hope it does as it sure would make life easier and more livable. 

But remember that at the moment she has selfish-itis and while infected is thinking of her best interests...you need to do the same.

Best of luck.   Go hug your kids.   ;)
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Dylboz on July 10, 2010, 12:56:43 PM
Get a lawyer and go for the jugular. Divorce is like war, cease fires are the enemies way of pacifying you while they regroup.

THIS. AND...

Mr. Bill is right we don't know you or the specifics. But he is wrong in doing what you want to do. Your wife is showing every sign of stalling, diverting attention, mis-directing, etc. on her way out. She has been found out, and does not know how to deal with the discovery, she has lost her control over the situation.


THIS.


My ex was more upset she got caught, and her timeline and plans were derailed. I had the goods, and she knew that she was suddenly at a disadvantage. It was a hairy two weeks at first, but when I started asking for reconciliation, counseling, etc., I totally gave away the advantage I'd had, and wound up getting screwed in a lot of ways.

Don't do that.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: The Wilderness on July 10, 2010, 01:26:24 PM
Cool Blue,

There is a lot of great advice here for you. Make your plan and do not waver from it. It is the wishy washy actions that will harm you and your children.
Decide what you are going to do and stick to it.

Also remember this, she is getting the same kind of advice that you are getting here. She is seeking and getting advice from somewhere, a lot of it is going to be the same as you are getting. Make that a part of your strategy. Don't tip your hand but keep it in mind. She is documenting everything also. Trust me she is.

Whether it seems like it now or not, you are in a battle. Your objective is to protect yourself and your children now and in the future.

Be smart and you will prevail, get emotional and weak, and you will loose everything. I have been there and done that. Twice.

TW
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Klonus on July 12, 2010, 11:54:07 AM
I was in a situation very similar and I can tell you that you will be better off and much happier when it is all done.  Life does go on despite the tragedies that fall upon ourselves. Good luck and I hope for a positive resolution in your favor.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Ann on July 13, 2010, 10:31:00 AM
I will admit that I have NOT read every single entry of this thread.  That being said, I will add this from the "conniving female point of view" (I am a child of a very VERY messy divorce)...

Get yourself a small, inexpensive MP3 player that has voice record, and record EVERY SINGLE CONVERSATION YOU HAVE WITH HER REGARDING THIS SITUATION.  Laws in many states require that only ONE person be aware that a conversation is being recorded. 

I watched my parents (BOTH of them) try to tear each other to pieces, figuratively speaking.  I know this is not your wish, but you must put your mind in SURVIVAL mode.

The advice you are being given here is solid.  She betrayed you.  She lied.  I would not trust her as far as I could toss a tank.

Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: evilphish on July 13, 2010, 11:51:55 AM
I don't know if I'm adding much to this thread, but my 2. cents

always always always understand in the back of your head this.

"Family Court is the single most sexist system in the united states.  Men getting a fair shake in family courts is rare."

(that may be a little over the top, but it will help keep you on your toes.)

I don't remember whosaid this but its true.  Divorice turns a marriage into a business transaction.  Like any other business dealing you document everything.  Verbal agreements mean Squat.

She cheated on you and activly researched how to hide it.  You can no longer trust anything she has to say.

and anything you say and do is open to review by a judge.

I'm praying for you, I hope everything works out.  But don't let hope blind you.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Dylboz on July 13, 2010, 12:02:31 PM
I will admit that I have NOT read every single entry of this thread.  That being said, I will add this from the "conniving female point of view" (I am a child of a very VERY messy divorce)...

Get yourself a small, inexpensive MP3 player that has voice record, and record EVERY SINGLE CONVERSATION YOU HAVE WITH HER REGARDING THIS SITUATION.  Laws in many states require that only ONE person be aware that a conversation is being recorded.  

I watched my parents (BOTH of them) try to tear each other to pieces, figuratively speaking.  I know this is not your wish, but you must put your mind in SURVIVAL mode.

The advice you are being given here is solid.  She betrayed you.  She lied.  I would not trust her as far as I could toss a tank.

Just my 2 cents.

Me too. And in a few instances, literally. That was, actually, why I was initially too nice in my own divorce. I did not want to "fail" like my own parents, or get nasty and bitter as I had seen them become. Now, I understand why, and what they were going through and that it is simply impossible to have an amicable divorce where infidelity is in play. Family court is the LAST place you want to be. It is the VERY LAST place your children want to be. IF you do wind up there, you MUST be prepared, and recognize that no matter what, having a Y chromosome puts you at a distinct disadvantage.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: LadyRebekah67 on July 15, 2010, 05:35:05 PM
This from a newbie and totally complete stranger.  Having witnessed much and from a female point of view, I pose the following points. (these are generalized, I know)

1.  Women marry hoping he will change (he has potential), men marry hoping she will never change.
2.  Men, in general, can cheat JUST for the sex of it.  There is a mental separation between sex and 'love' that can be tapped into at will.  When women cheat, it's usually 'emotional'. 
3. Love/desire is rooted in how the other person makes you feel about yourself, in general. 
4.  Marriage is, at its' basic core, a contract.  You provide for these of my needs and I'll provide for those of yours.  When ones needs are not being met, then comes disappointment, betrayal, anger and subsequent refusal to meet the others' basic needs, whatever those may be.  (expectations perhaps?)

With those points made, you seem to be intent on saving this marriage.  I urge caution that her intentions may not be as honorable.  Once a woman reaches a certain point, there is often no turning back.  I use a bank analogy.

Your wife (you too) opened a bank account when you met.  Every thought, deed, action, reaction, inaction and feeling is either a deposit or withdrawal of various values depending on the person.  Before you married, you had both made great efforts to build up the balance in your accounts.  Roses = deposit: Late for date = withdrawal: etc..  I ask, what happens to a bank account when the sum total of withdrawals is not offset by equal or greater deposits?  Your account is closed.  And I dare you to go back and try to get them to give you another account with such a track record.  I'm not suggesting that you knowingly overdrew your wifes' account, notice that I attributed thoughts and feelings in this whole thing.  If she had unrealistic expectations to begin with, her own thoughts and feelings (which are innumerable in most women) may have sucked your account dry without you having a clue.  And I'm sure you had no clue because we women fail miserably, when raising young men, in instructing you to understand what makes us tick.  So now that her account balance is so low, she's off to seek deposits from another source.  Perhaps one that makes her 'feel' special, pretty, useful, needed, appreciated, desired, romantically loved, etc...  I must warn, it's difficult for her to turn back, anticipating more of whatever type of withdrawals were coming at her. 

Effective questions for her:  How did he make her feel? Not, why did she cheat.  She probably can't put it into words anyways. What can I do, on a tangible daily basis, to inspire those feelings again?  Delineate your basic needs, each of you, on paper if you have to.  Critically determine if these needs are reasonable or if it's reasonable for you to fulfill them for each other or another source, friends, family, other people or groups...   Also be aware of each of your deal breakers.  These are to NEVER be approached.  (Cheating/lying happens to be a deal breaker to me.)  Always know that neither of you can or should even try to satisfy ALL of the petty needs/desires of the other.  Also, even if you're not 'feeling' particularly loving, ACT as if you are.  Often the simple performance of the act inspires the feelings to come back, on both the giving and receiving side.  Even a simple touch on the shoulder as you pass in the hall is enough to start building that balance back up. 

Ask direct questions and give direct answers.  This one is tough for women because we are more emotionally in tune.  "When you are feeling like this, or acting like that, what would you like me to DO?"  Or "When I am acting like this, I'm feeling like that and I need these things to feel better."  Women instinctively seem to know these things.  Men are action oriented, and men in love would do ANYTHING to make us happy.  The problem is, they often don't know WHAT to do.  They're not very good at interpreting the nonverbal cues that women would scream at each other for not noticing.  Women, if we just TELL them, the simple act of them doing it overshadows their inability to figure it out for themselves.  They are showing their love and attention by their willingness.  "When you come home in a crappy mood, what can I DO?"  "Well, when I'm in a crappy mood I'd really appreciate 15 minutes of down time before the rest of the home chaos."  So tomorrow, arrange for the kids to be otherwise occupied, don't mention the bills that came in and just relax.  The key is to TELL each other what would most satisfy the particular need of the moment.  Much strife can be avoided this way.

Last, if it doesn't end up working out.  Don't bad mouth the other parent within hearing of the children.  EVER. And try as hard as you can to stay in the same town with the kids, whoever they end up with the majority of the time.  Kids learn what they live and we all want our kids to have the best possible foundation for strong, healthy relationships in their futures.  I know this was long, but it might help you save it, if it's possible.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Sister Wolf on July 15, 2010, 05:39:27 PM
Wow.  That was interesting, and informative, Rebekah.  Thank you.  :)
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Heavy G on July 15, 2010, 06:03:14 PM
Rebekah:

I gave you your first (of many future) karma posts for a great post.

Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Sister Wolf on July 15, 2010, 06:11:13 PM
Rebekah:

I gave you your first (of many future) karma posts for a great post.

I am following suit here.  G Love knows where it's at.  +1 Rebekah.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: LadyRebekah67 on July 15, 2010, 06:18:08 PM
Awww thanks guys.  I'm feelin the love.  The first deposits in my TSP bank.  Woo Hoo!  Good luck, Cool Blue.  I hope you come out of this okay, one way or another.  ;)  And I, one of many, send you good thoughts and support.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 15, 2010, 07:31:11 PM
Awww thanks guys.  I'm feelin the love.  The first deposits in my TSP bank.  Woo Hoo!  Good luck, Cool Blue.  I hope you come out of this okay, one way or another.  ;)  And I, one of many, send you good thoughts and support.

Thanks.  That was a good post.  I guess I've figured out over the last week what you said, but the way you said it wraps it up nicely.

The update here is that it seems like my wife and I are actually gonna make it.

The crazy thing is, my forgiving her has totally flipped her around.  Now she's more optimistic about our relationship than I am!

Women make no sense some times...   lol!
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: LadyRebekah67 on July 15, 2010, 07:47:38 PM
Thanks.  That was a good post.  I guess I've figured out over the last week what you said, but the way you said it wraps it up nicely.

The update here is that it seems like my wife and I are actually gonna make it.

The crazy thing is, my forgiving her has totally flipped her around.  Now she's more optimistic about our relationship than I am!

Women make no sense some times...   lol!

Neither do men.  ;)  Good to hear.  Blessings on you both.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: BatonRouge Bill on July 15, 2010, 08:52:08 PM
LadyRebekah, here lies a lot of the problems and probably the root of much problems in marriages today1.  Women marry hoping he will change (he has potential); men marry hoping she will never change. (Woman feels she is marrying down, she is better from the get go) This is almost a given that socially women feel intellectually superior to men. Men are knuckle dragging cave men.2.  Men, in general, can cheat JUST for the sex of it.  There is a mental separation between sex and 'love' that can be tapped into at will.  When women cheat, it's usually 'emotional'. So Women cheat for more admirable reasons, because men’s sexual desires are more primitive.3. Love/desire is rooted in how the other person makes you feel about yourself, in general.  Love isn’t a place you fall or just a feeling of euphoria, it’s a verb, an action word…it’s something that you do!
4.  Marriage is, at its' basic core, a contract.  You provide for these of my needs and I'll provide for those of yours.  When ones needs are not being met, then comes disappointment, betrayal, anger and subsequent refusal to meet the others' basic needs, whatever those may be.  (expectations perhaps?) There are no good excuses for bad behavior! Only you can control your own behavior before, during or after the marriage. Marriage like all contracts can and should end honorably!

You missed one…If he doesn’t da  da da.. I’ll cut off his water…effectively cutting off touch and affection and further distancing both like as if womens sexual fortitude is superior and her self induced frustration is emotional justification to go outside.

I hope you don’t take this as a personal attack because it isn’t and I do believe this to be most women’s perspective so I agree with your take on women’s perspective just totally disagree with the perspective.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Sister Wolf on July 15, 2010, 08:56:13 PM
Bill, I can't have ya posting in red, dude.  I'm gonna have to change your replies to bold.  The red is lost on some of the forum themes.  :)
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: BatonRouge Bill on July 15, 2010, 09:07:19 PM
I prolly should have used Itallics, I didn't want to come across  too strong, printed text doesn't carry personal tones unless you are a really good writer (which I'm not) ::)
Sorry for the hijack Cool Blue!
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Sister Wolf on July 15, 2010, 10:08:03 PM
That's also a good point.  Okay - so let it be known that I changed the text to bold, and that it was not meant to be in a yelling tone of voice.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Sister Wolf on July 15, 2010, 10:19:14 PM
I'm gonna reply to your post now, Bill.

This is almost a given that socially women feel intellectually superior to men. Men are knuckle dragging cave men.

That is not true.  Take it back.  My best friends are almost 100% men, and I do not feel intellectually superior to any of them in any way.

Quote
So Women cheat for more admirable reasons, because men’s sexual desires are more primitive.

Cheating is horrible, regardless of the reason.  I didn't take what Rebekah wrote to infer that women were superior to men.  Only that womens choices and mens choices have a tendency to be made for different reasons.

Quote
There are no good excuses for bad behavior! Only you can control your own behavior before, during or after the marriage. Marriage like all contracts can and should end honorably!

No, there aren't.  I don't feel that Rebekah ever said there were excuses for anything.  Take a look at what she wrote again.  She pointed to different reasons why stupid choices might be made.  She didn't ever say they were excusable.  Only that there IS a "why" if anybody was interested in thinking about it.

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You missed one…If he doesn’t da  da da.. I’ll cut off his water…effectively cutting off touch and affection and further distancing both like as if womens sexual fortitude is superior and her self induced frustration is emotional justification to go outside.

tsk tsk, brother.  Not all women act like whores.  Give us a little bit of respect, eh?  :)  Hurt you have been, hrmmm?  Yeah, that's pretty obvious.  But then, we've all been hurt in some fashion.  Not all men are a POS because of that one abusive ass-hole.  And not all women act the way you've made us out to act, just because a few of them do (especially the ones in those god-awful TV shows).

Quote
I hope you don’t take this as a personal attack because it isn’t and I do believe this to be most women’s perspective so I agree with your take on women’s perspective just totally disagree with the perspective.

Well, that's totally your right, Bill.  And y'know, I like you and agree with you about a lot of other stuff, but on this one, we MAY have to agree to disagree.  I am more concerned about Cool Blue and how he makes it out of this than I am with his wife.  And I'm VERY tough on anybody - MEN OR WOMEN - who find the excuse they think they need to cheat on their spouses.  I took my vow very seriously, and I will never break or harm it.

But things DO happen for a reason.  Exploring those reasons does not equal giving anybody an "out" for acting like a douche nozzle.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: BatonRouge Bill on July 15, 2010, 10:47:53 PM
Ok so let me reply...OOCH,,,, Ouch!!! YIKeS!! Yaweeee!!! :o  Ok so I'll take back the part about women feeling superior, but man bashing is a regular sport and anytime I hear a woman refer to men just removing love from sex and women not is just BS. I worked in a really large homecenter years ago and watched "happily married women who outnumbered men make the rounds with men in management positions and listened to women talk about the other women only to catch them with them tangled up in the arms of the same manager they were talking about the other woman about. I do appoligize If I made all women out as sluts clealy they are not and I truly believe they are not but for every guy there is a gal...And have I been hurt...rejection does suck but it could have been much worse.
Again sorry for the hijack Cool Blue but I still have to wait for Rebekka to blast me ;D
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 16, 2010, 04:06:28 AM
Don't worry about the "hijack".  I think this actually touches on something we'll have to deal with (probably in marriage counseling) that somehow her cheating on my was my fault...

I refuse to accept that.

I'm not a perfect husband (though even she admits I'm a pretty good one) but she's not perfect either and that didn't make me cheat on her.

I'm willing to accept that she may have did what she did because she might have felt unhappy but I don't believe that I was 100% the cause of that unhappiness.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: evilphish on July 16, 2010, 05:22:53 AM
Quote
I refuse to accept that.

I don't blame you.  It is NOT your fault.

if there was something in your marriage that she wanted and you didn't provide it was her responsibility to talk to you about it. 
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: LadyRebekah67 on July 16, 2010, 06:38:29 AM
I'm willing to accept that she may have did what she did because she might have felt unhappy but I don't believe that I was 100% the cause of that unhappiness.

Oh my.  In NO way was I implying it to be anyones fault solely.  Some things just are.  Examining the 'whys' can sometimes prevent the train wreck, since one sex often doesn't have the skills and know how to understand the minds of the other.  We are different and have different means and processes of getting to the same goals.  It's called complimentary opposition.  Where one lacks, the other excels.  With neither being innately superior, just different.

If men are guilty of anything when women cheat, in general, it's just all tied up in both sexing thinking differently and attempting to apply what we know to be evident to the other persons intentions.  I was just trying to help you understand some of the ways we're different and how to avoid miscommunication through the healing process.

Oh gosh.  I feel so bad.  I SO didn't intend for you to feel attacked or blamed.  I thought I placed most of the blame on her feelings and expectations, which in some women, can be lofty and unattainable.  I thought some insight into how women process information in general might give you a roadsign arrow to follow, that's all.  Please accept my apologies for not making my own intentions clearer.  ;)
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: LadyRebekah67 on July 16, 2010, 06:41:19 AM
I don't blame you.  It is NOT your fault.

if there was something in your marriage that she wanted and you didn't provide it was her responsibility to talk to you about it. 

YES!  That's what I was getting at.  Men aren't mind readers.  Yes Yes Yes!  Thank you for getting it.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Sister Wolf on July 16, 2010, 06:42:38 AM
Agreed.  What she chose to do with her situation is 100% on HER.  Not you.  That's that nasty little "personal responsibility" thing that our generation seems to have such trouble with.  Sorta depressing, and enough to make (at least) Baton Rouge Bill a complete cynic :-P  but not your fault in the least.

Whether or not there might have been something that could have been done to fix it before she took that nasty jump... Well... that's a hindsight thing, and if you really are working things out with her, I hope she learned a damned valuable lesson from it.  Nobody is a mind reader.  As evilphish said, she should've told you if there was a problem, instead of damaging herself and you by seeking love elsewhere.

In any case... I'm really sorry you had to go through this.  I have an immense amount of respect for you, due to the way you handled the entire thing - including the onslaught of "hammer-like" solutions that we offered.  Nothin' but class.

Ah well, Rebekah beat me to it with her two posts.  I'm all written up so I'm gonna post this anyway.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: LadyRebekah67 on July 16, 2010, 07:32:41 AM
***Ok, your turn now Bill.  *Evil grin* ***

LadyRebekah, here lies a lot of the problems and probably the root of much problems in marriages today1.  Women marry hoping he will change (he has potential); men marry hoping she will never change. (Woman feels she is marrying down, she is better from the get go) This is almost a given that socially women feel intellectually superior to men. Men are knuckle dragging cave men.

***Hmmm.  The way I figure it, men are displaying the superior tendency here.  They are finding the girl they want to spend there lives with before they actually marry her.  A well thought out plan actually.  Since in reality, most people don't change at the very core.  For a man to marry one he hopes won't change makes his choice reasonable.  Too bad women don't try to follow this good example more often.***
Quote
2.  Men, in general, can cheat JUST for the sex of it.  There is a mental separation between sex and 'love' that can be tapped into at will.  When women cheat, it's usually 'emotional'. So Women cheat for more admirable reasons, because men’s sexual desires are more primitive.
***Again, this is a skill (Though not the cheating aspect of it) that women should more try to achieve.  (I, for one, have.)  Although I do not have much personal admiration for the often male obsession with sex, if we consider human instincts at the core of our existence, it makes perfect sense.  (Though some common sense self-control is admirable.)  Instinct tells men to propagate widely and with the most likely to birth and nurse healthy offspring.  It's an instinct as strong as that of raising the knee when something is coming at the groin area.  Considering this instinct, if men could exercise self-control and women could learn to disassociate "love" from the simple act, then there might be a middle ground to meet on.  There is no admirable reason to cheat, I was merely pointing out that the male thought process for why she would cheat would fall into the sex category, since that's what HE knows to be evident.  He might interpret her cheating as she wasn't getting enough at home.  This is not usually the case for women though.***

Quote
3. Love/desire is rooted in how the other person makes you feel about yourself, in general.  Love isn’t a place you fall or just a feeling of euphoria, it’s a verb, an action word…it’s something that you do!

***Agreed!  As evidenced by my suggestions to offer knowledge of what to DO daily.  But in that action, a feeling is attained, in BOTH sexes.***

Quote
4.  Marriage is, at its' basic core, a contract.  You provide for these of my needs and I'll provide for those of yours.  When ones needs are not being met, then comes disappointment, betrayal, anger and subsequent refusal to meet the others' basic needs, whatever those may be.  (expectations perhaps?) There are no good excuses for bad behavior! Only you can control your own behavior before, during or after the marriage. Marriage like all contracts can and should end honorably!

***Agreed again.  I don't believe I made excuses for bad behavior.  Just some possible reasons to be considered and addressed before being able to move forward with reunification, which was what he wanted.***

Quote
You missed one…If he doesn’t da  da da.. I’ll cut off his water…effectively cutting off touch and affection and further distancing both like as if womens sexual fortitude is superior and her self induced frustration is emotional justification to go outside.

***Ok, this one will take a lengthy reply indeed.  If 'water' is one of his needs, it is reasonable for her to supply it.  (Since the alternative would require cheating)  Now, if women naturally approach 'watering' from an emotional standpoint, then it's difficult to supply it without emotion required.  If her needs are consistently unfulfilled, her resulting resentment negates the ability to 'water'.  If men seek a steady supply of 'water' it is reasonable that he keep the well in good working order.  It's up to them both to discover how to best do that.  By TALKING.  (This goes both ways, btw.)  In my case it's easy.  If he's parched, all it takes to prime the well pump is a good old fashioned 3 minute butt rub.  In others, it might mean small things through the day, a look, a touch, a phone call from work for no reason, taking the trash out, a word of appreciation or encouragement... Admittedly, there ARE women who will lock the pump house in intentional retribution.  If you have one of these women, it's your own damn fault for marrying her in the first place because I'm sure you saw this tendency LONG before the nuptials.  Evil is as evil does.***
Quote

I hope you don’t take this as a personal attack because it isn’t and I do believe this to be most women’s perspective so I agree with your take on women’s perspective just totally disagree with the perspective.


***Oh poor, hurt, foul...  It's evident that you caught a not so good one at least once.  (Haven't we all.)  I do not feel personally attacked.  Guilty, perhaps, for not being clearer.  We don't have to always agree on everything.  If the world were filled with people who all thought the same, it would be a boring place indeed.  Just be aware of the influence your prior experiences might have on the color of glasses you see through today.  (Mine are somewhat cloudy as well.)***  Nice to meet you Bill.  ;)

Ok, that didn't work out too well.  Responses are in 3 asterisks up there in the box too. fixed it for you :)   LvsChant
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: evilphish on July 16, 2010, 08:03:00 AM
There is one other aspect of cheating that I'm hesitant to bring up as i'm worried it may cause you more grief. 

Not knowing how your sex life with her has been leading up to this incident please don't ignore the possible health ramifications that could possibly come up.

hopefully i'm not being to vague
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Mr. Bill on July 16, 2010, 08:03:34 AM
...I think this actually touches on something we'll have to deal with (probably in marriage counseling) that somehow her cheating on my was my fault...

I refuse to accept that. ...

Okay, try it this way:

Her decision to cheat was entirely hers.  But her reason (or motivation, or excuse) for cheating was that there's something not-right in your marriage.  So whatever that something is, it's 50% your responsibility.  (Not necessarily your fault, but still your responsibility.)

Would that be a reasonable compromise position?
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: evilphish on July 16, 2010, 08:10:58 AM
Quote
Would that be a reasonable compromise position?

IMHO i would so no its not reasonable.

it would be his responsibility if she had brought it to his attention before doing what she did.  Then they could have worked through the problem instead of ending in what it ended in.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: LadyRebekah67 on July 16, 2010, 08:35:33 AM
it would be his responsibility if she had brought it to his attention before doing what she did.  Then they could have worked through the problem instead of ending in what it ended in.

We're getting caught up in the blame game.  It's both of their responsibilities to speak when there's a need to, respond as best as one can, compromise as much as possible to accommodate, AND to INQUIRE periodically. 

Isn't it interesting, as evidenced here, how differently men and women approach communication and relationships.  A lesson in humanity right here in the making.  I think I like this group.  I've much to learn in here. 
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: evilphish on July 16, 2010, 09:07:29 AM
Quote
We're getting caught up in the blame game.  It's both of their responsibilities to speak when there's a need to

a lot of times these situations do end up getting to that.  however as you stated above men aren't mind readers, and its important that in their counseling that its not implied that he should be.

I don't know cool blue from adam, so i'm assuming that if he had known that their was a problem he would have done what he had to do to address it.

maybe there was some signs he should have talked to her, maybe not. 

Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: hobbs67 on July 16, 2010, 10:19:15 AM
Cool Blue --
Though I have not been through a divorce, I have been married for 11 years now, am a child of divorce and have been helping others trying to get through rough patches and through both have seen a heck of lot through the good and the bad, if I can I'll add my two cents.

First, kudos to you for being bigger than the situation and being willing to forgive.  Though we all screw up on a regular basis and all hurt our spouses on a regular basis in little and big ways, when it gets to a certain point we can lose the willingness to offer true forgiveness.  Its great for you, her and your family that you are willing forgive and see if you can restore the marriage, cause once its done, for your girls at very least it will never get undone.  Everyone has a different situation and there is no gaurantee it will work, but you have given it a chance. 

Second, the cheating is clearly her fault and her fault alone.  To blame a decision like that on another person is unfair and not realistic.  There was plenty of other things she could have done, marriage counseling comes to mind, that did not involve her violating the marriage vows.  To take any blame for that is unnecessary and unfair.

That said, it, the cheating, does signal  that there is a problem somewhere in the marriage that should be looked at.  It could be as simple as realizing that she has unrealistic views of what being married means, its certainly not butterflies all teh time,, to me that would suck btw, could be that she did not know how to communicate with you that she was unhappy and took an immature way out, could be there was something fundamentally wrong with the structure of the marriage that lead to the unhappiness that lead to the bad choice.  When I got married, I had no idea how to talk with my wife and would pretend things were ok when I was absolutely miserable which eventually lead to me doing stupid things.  My actions were my responsibility, (edit-- I didn't mean to imply that i cheated on my wife as I did not -- I did a lot of stupid things in my life, but that aint one) but it was helpful to figure out why so that my wife and I together could fix the problems and make the marriage work better.   

And I would heartily disagree with two sentiments, people change all the time.  My wife and I have changed so much over 11 years its silly.  And marriage is sooo much more than a contract, in the best applications, two become one.


Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: KYdoomer on July 16, 2010, 10:32:11 AM
Most conflicts continue due to escalation. 

Seems the general consensus is she felt a certain way and escalated the situation by cheating.  Though the initial feelings may have been your fault, the cheating definitely is not and don't ever take blame for it because that's a blow your confidence can never recover from.  The moment she escalated it to cheating she was in the wrong, regardless of what happened before.

Using the opposite and wrong way of thinking, would it be ok for you to now cheat on her?  She did it first. 

And ditto on your composure, you are a heck of a guy despite whatever faults...real or perceived.

J
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: donaldj on July 16, 2010, 10:41:43 AM
I don't want to rain on your parade, but my spider senses are still tingling.

She went from cheating on you to being enthusiastic about making things work in the span of a couple weeks?

I still think you're being played, and this is the calm before the storm.

Sorry for being pessimistic.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: KYdoomer on July 16, 2010, 01:11:39 PM
And...what this guy ^ said.

J
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: LadyRebekah67 on July 16, 2010, 02:18:34 PM
And I would heartily disagree with two sentiments, people change all the time.  My wife and I have changed so much over 11 years its silly.  And marriage is sooo much more than a contract, in the best applications, two become one.

I did say - "at their core".  Of course people change, as they learn and integrate new information, with experiences, examples etc...  In context, I was referring to the female tendency to attribute "potential" to a man and expect that she's going to change him into her knight in shining armor, whatever form that may take.  For the most part though, he is who he is, and all she will succeed at is training him to alter or control his natural tendencies for a time.  How long a time is probably directly attributable to what he perceives is a valuable enough benefit.  If he values a model type arm candy kinda girl, then if she lets herself go, he will no longer see the benefit in or feel the need to continue the 'trained' behaviors and revert back to what is natural to himself given the whole nature vs. nurture argument.  I know, it sounds crass and unromantic, but it bears out in practice, generally.  There's a difference between changing because YOU choose, and changing because SHE wants you to be, think, dress, act, talk, behave etc... as certain way.

And yes, a marriage IS more than a contract.  But if you really think it out, in context, the two become one theory only exhibits itself when both partners are satisfying those important needs in the other.   Companionship, household partner, co-parent to their kids, recreational partner, someone to vent worries to, or depend upon, etc...  Whatever ones needs and expectations are, they are generally being satisfied, with mutual compromise, by each other and immediate associations.  I ask, if no needs and expectations were being satisfied, how long would any of us stay in that arrangement?

p.s.  And Sister Wolf...  Funny how you, a female, got it the first time.  There is subtlety in female communication that men, with their sometimes quite literal interpretations, just can't quite wrap their minds around.  Oh yes, we are frustratingly and blissfully different.  It's almost a cosmic joke.  ;)
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Sister Wolf on July 16, 2010, 02:38:50 PM
p.s.  And Sister Wolf...  Funny how you, a female, got it the first time.  There is subtlety in female communication that men, with their sometimes quite literal interpretations, just can't quite wrap their minds around.  Oh yes, we are frustratingly and blissfully different.  It's almost a cosmic joke.  ;)

lol - I think a lot of the misinterpretation of your words comes from a defensive standpoint, rather than a male/female innate difference.  I know Mr. Bill got it... And G Love... And my husband (TW), and I'm sure there are several more men who understood where you were coming from.  And I'm sure there were several women who immediately threw up the same wall that some of the gentlemen here have against your words.  I know I've been super guilty of it on other subjects (police officers, and tolerance of alternative lifestyles are my two really big "DON'T DISAGREE WITH ME" topics and I'm STILL learning how to communicate in those sensitive areas).

I do totally agree about the subtlety in female communication though.  It's part of why most of my close friends are male.  They don't generally play the, "I love your dress, did you get it on the sale rack at Wal Mart?" game, and I don't like the ever-constant competition that seems to thrive in all-female circles.....And (okay, I'll say it), I can't stand the fact that it seems like most all-female circles I've ever spent more than 10 minutes with will automatically turn the conversation into a bitch-fest about how inept their male mates are.  I think that's reprehensible and I end up wanting to punch them all right square in the nose.  I've lost a lot of friends over that issue.  Eventually I just quit trying to have female friends.  I still have a few, but they're mostly here at TSP, and they don't act like that.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Dainty on July 16, 2010, 03:50:45 PM
The update here is that it seems like my wife and I are actually gonna make it.

The crazy thing is, my forgiving her has totally flipped her around.  Now she's more optimistic about our relationship than I am!

Women make no sense some times...   lol!

Very, very happy to hear that. Congratulations to you both! ;D
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: archer on July 16, 2010, 04:08:34 PM
The update here is that it seems like my wife and I are actually gonna make it.

The crazy thing is, my forgiving her has totally flipped her around.  Now she's more optimistic about our relationship than I am!
Hate to be a downer, but I'd be wary and keep my guard up still. And keep talking to a lawyer just in case.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 16, 2010, 04:22:06 PM

Oh gosh.  I feel so bad.  I SO didn't intend for you to feel attacked or blamed.  I thought I placed most of the blame on her feelings and expectations, which in some women, can be lofty and unattainable.  I thought some insight into how women process information in general might give you a roadsign arrow to follow, that's all.  Please accept my apologies for not making my own intentions clearer.  ;)

lol, don't worry I didn't take it that way from you. 

I've often seen that attitude in others though.

If the guy cheats he's a dog and he's at fault.

If she cheats, he neglected her and he's still at fault.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 16, 2010, 04:24:52 PM
Agreed.  What she chose to do with her situation is 100% on HER.  Not you.  That's that nasty little "personal responsibility" thing that our generation seems to have such trouble with.  Sorta depressing, and enough to make (at least) Baton Rouge Bill a complete cynic :-P  but not your fault in the least.

Whether or not there might have been something that could have been done to fix it before she took that nasty jump... Well... that's a hindsight thing, and if you really are working things out with her, I hope she learned a damned valuable lesson from it.  Nobody is a mind reader.  As evilphish said, she should've told you if there was a problem, instead of damaging herself and you by seeking love elsewhere.

In any case... I'm really sorry you had to go through this.  I have an immense amount of respect for you, due to the way you handled the entire thing - including the onslaught of "hammer-like" solutions that we offered.  Nothin' but class.

Ah well, Rebekah beat me to it with her two posts.  I'm all written up so I'm gonna post this anyway.

Thanks.  Frankly I was a little worried what people would think of me if we stayed together.

In the end though it came down to a choice between pride and revenge, or keeping my family.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 16, 2010, 04:26:55 PM
There is one other aspect of cheating that I'm hesitant to bring up as i'm worried it may cause you more grief. 

Not knowing how your sex life with her has been leading up to this incident please don't ignore the possible health ramifications that could possibly come up.

hopefully i'm not being to vague

Oh ya, we've talked about that and are gonna look into it.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: archer on July 16, 2010, 04:32:44 PM
Oh ya, we've talked about that and are gonna look into it.
Um, don't look, Do! This could be potentially life threatening
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 16, 2010, 04:36:53 PM
Cool Blue --
Though I have not been through a divorce, I have been married for 11 years now, am a child of divorce and have been helping others trying to get through rough patches and through both have seen a heck of lot through the good and the bad, if I can I'll add my two cents.

First, kudos to you for being bigger than the situation and being willing to forgive.  Though we all screw up on a regular basis and all hurt our spouses on a regular basis in little and big ways, when it gets to a certain point we can lose the willingness to offer true forgiveness.  Its great for you, her and your family that you are willing forgive and see if you can restore the marriage, cause once its done, for your girls at very least it will never get undone.  Everyone has a different situation and there is no gaurantee it will work, but you have given it a chance. 

Second, the cheating is clearly her fault and her fault alone.  To blame a decision like that on another person is unfair and not realistic.  There was plenty of other things she could have done, marriage counseling comes to mind, that did not involve her violating the marriage vows.  To take any blame for that is unnecessary and unfair.

That said, it, the cheating, does signal  that there is a problem somewhere in the marriage that should be looked at.  It could be as simple as realizing that she has unrealistic views of what being married means, its certainly not butterflies all teh time,, to me that would suck btw, could be that she did not know how to communicate with you that she was unhappy and took an immature way out, could be there was something fundamentally wrong with the structure of the marriage that lead to the unhappiness that lead to the bad choice.  When I got married, I had no idea how to talk with my wife and would pretend things were ok when I was absolutely miserable which eventually lead to me doing stupid things.  My actions were my responsibility, (edit-- I didn't mean to imply that i cheated on my wife as I did not -- I did a lot of stupid things in my life, but that aint one) but it was helpful to figure out why so that my wife and I together could fix the problems and make the marriage work better.   

And I would heartily disagree with two sentiments, people change all the time.  My wife and I have changed so much over 11 years its silly.  And marriage is sooo much more than a contract, in the best applications, two become one.


Thanks +1
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 16, 2010, 04:42:00 PM
Hate to be a downer, but I'd be wary and keep my guard up still. And keep talking to a lawyer just in case.

Oh ya, we're not out of it yet.

For example, we're going to marriage counseling but she doesn't want to do it now because she says that things are going so well now that she doesn't want to keep bringing up the past.

I insisted that we go.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: archer on July 16, 2010, 04:57:52 PM
Oh ya, we're not out of it yet.

For example, we're going to marriage counseling but she doesn't want to do it now because she says that things are going so well now that she doesn't want to keep bringing up the past.

I insisted that we go.
<paranoid hat on>
Oh that seems like a pacification technique. She's trying to lure you into a sense of 'all is ok again' then she'll be off again behind your back.
<paranoid hat off>
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Mr. Bill on July 16, 2010, 05:10:15 PM
...she doesn't want to keep bringing up the past. ...

"The past" -- you mean, two weeks ago? :D

Sorry, I shouldn't be laughing, I know this is serious.  I'm glad you're going ahead with the counseling.

I still don't know you nearly well enough to say this, but I'd like to believe that you've had a basically good marriage, but there were a few bugs, she had a nasty jolt from her father's death, and she went off the rails.  If that's the case, there's good hope for repairing the problem.

Best wishes to both of you. :)
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: BatonRouge Bill on July 16, 2010, 05:50:30 PM
My ex's animal instincts kicked in 4-5 days after her monthly friend left and lasted about 6 or 7 days after which she would sleep in my youngest daughters room for the next 3 weeks. Just saying if she's distant during that time.. ::)..That was the last 2 years of a 24 year marriage...no rise in testosterone levels if she's on contraceptives though.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Periwinkle on July 16, 2010, 06:25:45 PM
I don't know you at all, but I would like to say that my hubby and I had some very rough spots in our marriage, not unlike yours.  We are 9 years down the road now and we are better and healthier today than we were back then.  We both went to individual counselors to deal with our own stuff.  I would like to add that ALOT OF PRAYER was going on thru this time as well.  I firmly believe that God is the reason we are healed and healthier today.  He created us and knows how to heal us.

Don't give up hope.  While it is not easy, it's worth it.  And I'm not preaching, but if it wasn't for God, I am positive we would not be where we are today.  I thank Him daily for my hubby and our marriage.

Praying for you!
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 16, 2010, 06:33:59 PM
I don't know you at all, but I would like to say that my hubby and I had some very rough spots in our marriage, not unlike yours.  We are 9 years down the road now and we are better and healthier today than we were back then.  We both went to individual counselors to deal with our own stuff.  I would like to add that ALOT OF PRAYER was going on thru this time as well.  I firmly believe that God is the reason we are healed and healthier today.  He created us and knows how to heal us.

Don't give up hope.  While it is not easy, it's worth it.  And I'm not preaching, but if it wasn't for God, I am positive we would not be where we are today.  I thank Him daily for my hubby and our marriage.

Praying for you!


Thanks very much, I'm hoping we have similar results.

We have been speaking to our pastor and we've seen a few signs that God is on our side and wants us to stick it through.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Periwinkle on July 16, 2010, 07:04:59 PM
I'm glad to hear that.  I'm glad that you are seeing signs.  Truth is ~ God IS on y'alls side.  He wants to show His power in the healing of you and your wife and your marriage.  His Glory shines thru when things that seem hopeless are turned around and become a testimony to Him.  I firmly believe my hubby and I are an example of that cuz we sure messed up our marriage in a major way.  It's only because of God that we are together today.  It was hard, but we stuck it out.........even when we wanted to give up and leave, we stuck it out.  Sometimes we had to get out of the house for a little bit, but we always came home to each other.  We made the commitment "for better or for worse" and boy did we have "worse".

As for butterflies, some of those naturally fade away because a marriage can't be based in butterflies.  It has to be based in reality and in confidence of the other person and faith that you both will pull thru things together.  I truly believe that marriage is a 3-corded relationship = God, husband and wife.

Life is a journey, but so is marriage.  There are ups and downs and that's just part of it, but that doesn't mean we give up when the going gets tough.  If Jesus had done that, He wouldn't have made it to the cross.

(again, I'm so not preaching......at least I'm not trying to, but it might sound like I am.  I'm just sharing what happened in our lives.  Also, there are times when marriages won't work ~ when one abuses and refuses to change.  However, I think many marriages can be saved.  JMHO.)
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: monkeyboyf on July 16, 2010, 10:31:22 PM
+1 for the beautiful posts, Periwinkle.  The kind of forgivness needed is a supernatural kind that only our Lord can give us. CoolBlue, you can do it.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: hobbs67 on July 17, 2010, 01:38:45 PM
Quote
Quote from: Periwinkle on Yesterday at 07:25:45 PM
I don't know you at all, but I would like to say that my hubby and I had some very rough spots in our marriage, not unlike yours.  We are 9 years down the road now and we are better and healthier today than we were back then.  We both went to individual counselors to deal with our own stuff.  I would like to add that ALOT OF PRAYER was going on thru this time as well.  I firmly believe that God is the reason we are healed and healthier today.  He created us and knows how to heal us.

Don't give up hope.  While it is not easy, it's worth it.  And I'm not preaching, but if it wasn't for God, I am positive we would not be where we are today.  I thank Him daily for my hubby and our marriage.

Praying for you!



Thanks very much, I'm hoping we have similar results.

We have been speaking to our pastor and we've seen a few signs that God is on our side and wants us to stick it through.

Cool Blue -- If done correctly, you have the opportunity in this situation to lead your family, particularly your little girls through this difficult time, teaching them lessons along the way.  If your wife is truthfully repentent and willing to work on fixing her issues, great, they still get to see what forgiveness and love looks like in their dad up close and personal and see the effect that it has on mom who unless they are really young they will likely know has gone off the deep end lately.  Mom was bad and Dad forgave her = I don't have to be perfect and I can forgive people.  As they grow up, they can then apply the lessons learned from you and the situation to their lives and to their choice of husband -- girls most often pick their future spouses based upon how their dad was (or wasn't) according to some studies.   

If your wife continues down a bad road, its almost more important how you act in response because little eyes will be watching and again, if you react with love and forgiveness, with boundaries, they will learn from that was well.  She may flake out again and you don't have to put up with it, but its how you respond to that which will be important.  It aint easy, but the question is in the face of bad behavior how do want to respond and what will the kids and your wife learn from it.    If you respond with love and respect,  no matter how unmerited it is in the situation, it is a little lesson for them to treat others the same way and expect it from others.  If you respond with disrespect and vengeance, they will expect the same.





Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Heavy G on July 17, 2010, 02:01:36 PM

Mom was bad and Dad forgave her = I don't have to be perfect and I can forgive people. 


+1 hobbs.

That being said, and it was said so well by hobbs, if she goes back to the old ways you MUST protect yourself and your kids legally as we've talked about in previous posts.

So if things are truly working out well, I'll high-five hobbs on his/her sentiment.  If things don't work out, I would be as ruthless as necessary to protect yourself.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: PistolWhipped on July 17, 2010, 04:28:25 PM
I'll leave you with this bit of advice.

I still think she is playing you.  Granted I am highly suspicious of everyone, but I still don't get the right vibe from her somewhat erratic actions.

If you get suspicious, I'd suggest you contact a PI.  She might wait a while since you've already caught her, but after a time, she may relax.  Don't let your guard down.  She shows signs of lapsing back into her old habits, go for the (figurative) kill.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Dylboz on July 17, 2010, 04:47:10 PM
I'll leave you with this bit of advice.

I still think she is playing you.  Granted I am highly suspicious of everyone, but I still don't get the right vibe from her somewhat erratic actions.

If you get suspicious, I'd suggest you contact a PI.  She might wait a while since you've already caught her, but after a time, she may relax.  Don't let your guard down.  She shows signs of lapsing back into her old habits, go for the (figurative) kill.

Look, I hate to agree with this, but I do. I caught my ex once making some rather suspicious IM's to a very masculine screenname. I knew even then it wasn't right, but I took her word (albeit with reservations) that they were actually innocent and the other party was a girlfriend of hers. They were not innocent, and the other party was the married man with whom she was cheating (wrecking two homes, at least we didn't have kids, but her paramour did), and I only succeeded in making her more furtive and circumspect in her machinations, such that 6 months went by before I was able to definitively prove what was going on. The fact that your wife doesn't really want to seek counseling is highly suspicious. I'd proceed with great caution if I were you.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: ZenGunFighter on July 17, 2010, 07:21:52 PM
We're getting caught up in the blame game.  It's both of their responsibilities to speak when there's a need to, respond as best as one can, compromise as much as possible to accommodate, AND to INQUIRE periodically. 

Isn't it interesting, as evidenced here, how differently men and women approach communication and relationships.  A lesson in humanity right here in the making.  I think I like this group.  I've much to learn in here. 

I think you are the typee to 'learn much' in most any setting.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: ZenGunFighter on July 17, 2010, 07:31:31 PM
How was your wife's relationship with her father, when she was growing up?
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 18, 2010, 06:55:34 AM
How was your wife's relationship with her father, when she was growing up?

Very close and with what some would consider emotional abuse.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: LadyRebekah67 on July 18, 2010, 07:42:21 AM
I think you are the typee to 'learn much' in most any setting.

I'll take that as a huge compliment.  Thanks.  ;) 

I kinda hate to say anything again, but I DO agree with the guys.  I'd proceed with caution if it were me in this situation.  Something feels a little fishy to me.  (But that could be the cloudy glasses I look through.)

p.s. and Sister Wolf, I was thinkin the same defensive thing, I'm just too new here to be the total bad guy just yet.  They took it quite well from you though.  ;)
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: ZenGunFighter on July 18, 2010, 08:21:42 AM
Very close and with what some would consider emotional abuse.

The reason I ask, is one patern is that when a daughter doesn't get the approval of her father, she will look for approval/acceptance from other men. And yours isn't enough. It needs to be renewed. She needs to be 'attractive', 'intelligent', etc.

I don't know if this is the case. But if it is, cheating will be a pattern. The 'butterflies' is kind of a tip off.
Does she drink?

(feel free to ignore any of this if it is stuff you don't want to share)

Anyway, maybe I'm way off base.

Keep your eyes open, and While it is good to be kind and forgiving, don't be a sap.

Good luck. I hope thins work out the way you want them to.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Sister Wolf on July 18, 2010, 02:30:52 PM
p.s. and Sister Wolf, I was thinkin the same defensive thing, I'm just too new here to be the total bad guy just yet.  They took it quite well from you though.  ;)

I think they know me well enough to just ignore me most of the time.  :D

You're gonna be just fine here, Rebekah.  You're quite good at assimilating.  ;)
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 18, 2010, 05:07:57 PM

Does she drink?


Good luck. I hope thins work out the way you want them to.


No she doesn't.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 18, 2010, 05:11:06 PM
Update: The other guy has split with his wife.

On the one hand it's good that we won't have to deal with ever seeing him again since he's no longer part of the extended family.

On the other, I'm worried that he might get it in his head that he has a chance with my wife...
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Heavy G on July 18, 2010, 05:35:54 PM
Cool Blue:

I hope I don't come across like an internet forum armchair quarterback, but I think this is a dicey period of time.  Keep a careful eye on your wife and move lightning fast if you need to.     
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: antsyaunt on July 18, 2010, 06:16:51 PM
I'm in agreement with Heavy G and most of the others.  Please be careful.  She may mean what she says when she is with you, but it can easily change.  My spider senses are kicking in on this.  Best of luck to you and your family. 
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: BatonRouge Bill on July 18, 2010, 07:01:26 PM
Update: The other guy has split with his wife.

On the one hand it's good that we won't have to deal with ever seeing him again since he's no longer part of the extended family.

On the other, I'm worried that he might get it in his head that he has a chance with my wife...
Good luck with it and do your best to keep communications between them from happening. I would be willing to bet he will make contact if nothing else to cry the blues with her. Make it clear it's a deal breaker! Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me!
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: hobbs67 on July 19, 2010, 08:17:36 AM
Quote from: hobbs67 on July 16, 2010, 11:19:15 AM
Quote
And I would heartily disagree with two sentiments, people change all the time.  My wife and I have changed so much over 11 years its silly.  And marriage is sooo much more than a contract, in the best applications, two become one.


I did say - "at their core".  Of course people change, as they learn and integrate new information, with experiences, examples etc...  In context, I was referring to the female tendency to attribute "potential" to a man and expect that she's going to change him into her knight in shining armor, whatever form that may take.  For the most part though, he is who he is, and all she will succeed at is training him to alter or control his natural tendencies for a time.  How long a time is probably directly attributable to what he perceives is a valuable enough benefit.  If he values a model type arm candy kinda girl, then if she lets herself go, he will no longer see the benefit in or feel the need to continue the 'trained' behaviors and revert back to what is natural to himself given the whole nature vs. nurture argument.  I know, it sounds crass and unromantic, but it bears out in practice, generally.  There's a difference between changing because YOU choose, and changing because SHE wants you to be, think, dress, act, talk, behave etc... as certain way.

LadyR, I agree and disagree.  Yes, going into the marriage people often have completely no idea what marriage is really like and want to change their spouse into something that they are not, immature party girls/boys into Betty Crocker/Ward Cleaver in no time flat.   And yes, people often try to change for someone else and that's a pointless proposition, if you don't see your own sins, you are just going off what someone wants or doesn't want for you, thats plain pointless and will likely never take hold. 

The question is what happens when that falls flat?  It is here that people have the opportunity to see their selves in the mirror and truly change.  I don't see much of a difference between at their core and change in general, just seems like whether they really change or not.  I have seen people change truly for life and I have seen people refuse to change one iota of their nasty personalities all the while insisting that people don't change to excuse their lack of effort.  Its possible, people often just don't want to for various reasons.

Quote
And yes, a marriage IS more than a contract.  But if you really think it out, in context, the two become one theory only exhibits itself when both partners are satisfying those important needs in the other.   Companionship, household partner, co-parent to their kids, recreational partner, someone to vent worries to, or depend upon, etc...  Whatever ones needs and expectations are, they are generally being satisfied, with mutual compromise, by each other and immediate associations.  I ask, if no needs and expectations were being satisfied, how long would any of us stay in that arrangement?

My response ties in with Cool Blue's response to his wife.  There is the mutual convenience marriage where the relationship is based upon an idea of love but in reality its just as you say, a matter of convience and self centered feeling -- as long as I am getting something out of this its ok, but if my needs are not met (shaking irate finger) I am out of here.....  Then there are those that are changed by spouses loving each other through bad behavior and needs not being met and making it out the other side of the problem to something that is so much deeper, so much more that just what I get out of it.  I am sure it can happen with out troubles for someone much more mature than I, but for me it took my wife loving me when I was an idiot and she was getting very little out of it.   True, Sacrificial love can be a game changer in my opinion.  So my answer to your question of how long would any of us stay would be for life or until she came around.

Hobbs
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: LadyRebekah67 on July 19, 2010, 08:59:47 AM
True, Sacrificial love can be a game changer in my opinion.  So my answer to your question of how long would any of us stay would be for life or until she came around.

Hobbs

If there is a reasonable expectation of coming out the other end all right, then I agree.  Of course I can throw out innumerable cases where sticking it out for life or until change isn't reasonable.  Hubby comes home from vietnam, PTSD, drugs, alchoholism, cheating, STD's, wife/child beating, for years.  How many years does she tolerate, sacrifice, even sympathize before saving herself and child?  Not even one moment longer than she determines his idiocy will continue.  (btw - after 4 years, she threatened this prior green beret with waking up to a gun in his face being the last thing he would ever see.  He left.)  Of course we're speaking of an extreme example here, but in someone like myself, cheating alone is the deal breaker.  The cheater has already demonstrated an inability to constructively handle stress or exercise reasonable problem solving skills.  This personality trait, to me, is not conducive to a long term relationship at that time and the lack of those basic skills will spill over into other areas of the union.  Enough time and that person may mature and change, but my question is - how much of my life should I sacrifice.  Only I can manage my own comfort and pursuit of happiness.  He/she has already displayed that they cannot be trusted with my unconditional love and support.  My life is short and valuable.  Even 4 years of misery is 4 years wasted.  (This statement from a cancer survivor/postponer, so obviously colored by cloudy glasses.  Though many could benefit from the stark-naked knowledge of just how short life is, or can be.)

In Cool Blues' case, I fear that his noble desire to keep his family intact, will backfire, due to her example that she doesn't have the desire/ability to confront and conquer adversity and appears to want to pretend that that fault doesn't still lie within her and shows little desire to learn and grow. 

Admittedly, there are also many examples of people willing to see and deal with their own fault and errors and make successful efforts to correct themselves, lastingly.  I think that requires either a genuine fear of loss of great personal value (of family or such) or a true level of maturity.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 19, 2010, 12:16:25 PM
Quote
In Cool Blues' case, I fear that his noble desire to keep his family intact, will backfire, due to her example that she doesn't have the desire/ability to confront and conquer adversity and appears to want to pretend that that fault doesn't still lie within her and shows little desire to learn and grow. 

I think she's changed. She seems geninely regretful and very thankful that I've forgiven.   She told me that after speaking with others she realized how lucky she had it and now feels like she acted like a spoiled brat.

Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: LadyRebekah67 on July 19, 2010, 12:34:14 PM
I think she's changed. She seems geninely regretful and very thankful that I've forgiven.   She told me that after speaking with others she realized how lucky she had it and now feels like she acted like a spoiled brat.



That's a step in the right direction.  ;)  Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Kayzonara on July 19, 2010, 02:04:24 PM
I'd be sleeping with one eye open.

I hope she really has re-committed to the relationship, and that you two can get past this and rebuild trust.

In any case, I'd be sleeping with one eye open for quite awhile where she's concerned.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: TwoBluesMama on July 19, 2010, 04:47:32 PM
I think she's changed. She seems geninely regretful and very thankful that I've forgiven.   She told me that after speaking with others she realized how lucky she had it and now feels like she acted like a spoiled brat.



Okay dear Cool - I'm going to take a completely different road from everyone else and encourage you with all you have to make this work.  I can tell you from experience when our daughter was 5 - now 27 we went through some very hard times and considered divorce but we stuck it out.  It wasn't easy but we both were willing.  Now over 22 years later I can say it was worth it.  And please remember that you loved this woman enough to marry her and have children with her. And hopefully she will remember the same about you as you give forgiveness and grace (that means giving somebody something that they don't deserve). I've read through everyone's answers with a sad heart.  I say don't sleep with one eye open, don't look for opportunities to catch her doing wrong - just keep loving her with your whole heart and trust me one day it will be great.  I think that folks give up too easily when times get hard.  Some days you have to just remember what you loved about each other in the first place and give each other plenty of grace.  I also think married couples should date again - it's so much fun to sneak off to the movies in the middle of the day like new lovers and then sneak home for ... well you can guess the rest and then back to work.  I'll still be offering prayers up for you two.  Blessings TBM
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on July 19, 2010, 05:23:33 PM
Okay dear Cool - I'm going to take a completely different road from everyone else and encourage you with all you have to make this work.  I can tell you from experience when our daughter was 5 - now 27 we went through some very hard times and considered divorce but we stuck it out.  It wasn't easy but we both were willing.  Now over 22 years later I can say it was worth it.  And please remember that you loved this woman enough to marry her and have children with her. And hopefully she will remember the same about you as you give forgiveness and grace (that means giving somebody something that they don't deserve). I've read through everyone's answers with a sad heart.  I say don't sleep with one eye open, don't look for opportunities to catch her doing wrong - just keep loving her with your whole heart and trust me one day it will be great.  I think that folks give up too easily when times get hard.  Some days you have to just remember what you loved about each other in the first place and give each other plenty of grace.  I also think married couples should date again - it's so much fun to sneak off to the movies in the middle of the day like new lovers and then sneak home for ... well you can guess the rest and then back to work.  I'll still be offering prayers up for you two.  Blessings TBM

Thanks.

I think a lot of people here mean well but have had bad experiences.

I think we're gonna make it.  I could be wrong. In two weeks or 20 years from now we could break up again, but at least when my kids ask about it someday I'd be able to say that I tried and did all I could.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Dylboz on July 19, 2010, 07:09:20 PM
Thanks.

I think a lot of people here mean well but have had bad experiences.

I think we're gonna make it.  I could be wrong. In two weeks or 20 years from now we could break up again, but at least when my kids ask about it someday I'd be able to say that I tried and did all I could.

That's true. But, remember, a lot of us had bad experiences precisely because we meant so well at the time. Anyway, I'm glad you're happy with how things are going with your relationship, and I sure hope that everything turns out alright in the end. If you honestly believe in your heart it is the right thing to do, you've got to do it. Best of luck.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: hobbs67 on July 19, 2010, 08:01:44 PM
Quote
Quote from: TwoBluesMama on Today at 05:47:32 PM
Okay dear Cool - I'm going to take a completely different road from everyone else and encourage you with all you have to make this work.  I can tell you from experience when our daughter was 5 - now 27 we went through some very hard times and considered divorce but we stuck it out.  It wasn't easy but we both were willing.  Now over 22 years later I can say it was worth it.  And please remember that you loved this woman enough to marry her and have children with her. And hopefully she will remember the same about you as you give forgiveness and grace (that means giving somebody something that they don't deserve). I've read through everyone's answers with a sad heart.  I say don't sleep with one eye open, don't look for opportunities to catch her doing wrong - just keep loving her with your whole heart and trust me one day it will be great.  I think that folks give up too easily when times get hard.  Some days you have to just remember what you loved about each other in the first place and give each other plenty of grace.  I also think married couples should date again - it's so much fun to sneak off to the movies in the middle of the day like new lovers and then sneak home for ... well you can guess the rest and then back to work.  I'll still be offering prayers up for you two.  Blessings TBM

TBM -- my sentiments exactly.  With the addition of the fact that we all fall short in so many ways, particularly in such an important relationship as marriage.  It is only grace: forgiveness and love when it is not deserved that sets us free.  Someone once told me a long time ago that forgiveness is like freeing a long suffering prisoner from prison, then realizing that the prisoner was you.  I thought he was a crazy talking man at the time, but thats besides the point.

Quote
Thanks.

I think a lot of people here mean well but have had bad experiences.

I think we're gonna make it.  I could be wrong. In two weeks or 20 years from now we could break up again, but at least when my kids ask about it someday I'd be able to say that I tried and did all I could.

You rock my friend, imho.  Don't forget the boundaries and it seems like from what you say at this time you may have to steer the ship for a while from the maturity perspective, but its certainly worth the effort.  Even if as you say it doesn't work as hoped for, you and your kids may be transformed by the effort.  My prayers are with you as well. 
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Periwinkle on July 24, 2010, 04:15:58 PM
+1 for the beautiful posts, Periwinkle.  The kind of forgivness needed is a supernatural kind that only our Lord can give us. CoolBlue, you can do it.
Thank you monkeyboyf.  Thank you very much.

I believe that it's times like these that God uses to bring us closer and I have to admit, while I did NOT enjoy the pain we were going thru, we are both much closer to God today.  HE does heal us, and He enjoys healing us. 

Thems my views.   ;D
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: BusyBee on May 31, 2011, 12:45:54 PM
Cool Blue:

How is the situation now?  I only ask because I think this was a valuable thread in so many ways and an update nearly a year later would help a lot of folks.

Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on September 04, 2011, 05:46:47 PM
Sorry for such a late reply; been pretty busy.  After all the problems we had I had to make some major changes in my life and I'm now a full-time university student / stay at home dad.

Thing are going as OK as can be expected.  It was a really rough year but the last couple months have been pretty good.

Basically I had to re-examine my life and it took some convincing for my wife to accept that I had to go back to school and work in something that I actually enjoy. 

I felt that I was wasting my life at work, not accomplishing anything and just killing time until I qualified for a pension.  In the past I was able to accept my work life because I took pride in my home life but when that fell apart I had to make a career change.

Secondly the economics of it just didn't make sense.  The commute, daycare and other work expenses were taking up about 2/3 of my net income. If I stayed home with our kids we'd only be out a couple hundred a month which was something we could make up easily.

I'm now an environmental student which kinda ties into perpardeness/survivalism.  I'm leaning my studies towards the self-sufficiency/technology side instead of the activism side.  For example, in one of my recent courses I created a device to harvest water from air without using electricity. The prof said that he'd be surprised if anybody got anything and I was the only student to harvest water but it wasn't much, only 6 milliliters (I plan on posting pics of what I did here sometime).  So basically I've found something that I really enjoy and am good at.

I should graduate in a year from now and I'm hoping to get into government policy as a career and within 2-3 years I'd like to get 5 acres or so and start building a homestead.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Heavy G on September 04, 2011, 06:31:55 PM
Thanks for the update, Cool Blue.  We're rootin' for you, brother.  Check in any time.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on September 04, 2011, 07:01:40 PM
Thanks buddy!
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Morning Sunshine on September 04, 2011, 09:37:43 PM
it always makes my heart glad when I hear about couples having hard times that pull it back together.  best of luck to you.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: AussieNana on November 04, 2011, 02:55:59 AM
Cool Blue, I've just read through all the posts. I'm a newbie here. I'm glad you are working things through and working towards something you want to do.

I was bothered by two things in these posts. Firstly the assumption that all was at an end. The second was a male-female/man-woman antagonism in the the writing.

I'm writing this as someone who has been married for 42 years, of which some 5 years were truly awful, 15 were OK and the rest have been great. A long term marriage is likely to have problems, even bad problems and either or both of you can behave badly from time to time. What makes it great is to be able to look back and realise that you have worked through the bad stuff and come out the other side as better people.

About the antagonism in the writing about the hard time males are getting. I completely agree that from time to time one gender gets a bad deal of it. It is only in the last 30 or so years out some 1000, 2000 years + that men have been getting the worse end of the stick. Which is not to say it is OK. It is never right to put down one group on the basis of gender. But don't immediately try to switch things back the way they were. That would be wrong too.

Perhaps its time to let go of the gender anger and angst and acknowledge that some PEOPLE are great and some are... not (I was going to say a----holes) and most of us are somewhere in between. Structural issues such as the way some people use the law to beat up their partners are difficult to address, but we do have to come to terms with what the legal and social system does to us. Continuing to be angry and projecting foul motives onto others doesn't get us good results. It hurts like hell to be accused of bad stuff and getting clobbered for years, but for our own sakes we have to get over it. Forgiveness isn't easy. I know that. I've been to hell and back several times in my life.

We have to make a life for ourselves despite what happens to us, regardless of the abuse we have suffered. You don't want to look back on your life once you are 60-70-80-90 only to think you have been hating someone or angry as a result of major abuse for most of your lives. We have to learn how to let go of the pain and get a life of our own at the same time as fostering your relationship (if possible) for the best outcome for them as well as for you.

From experience I say that adultery, either way, doesn't have destroy a marriage. Neither do major financial mistakes. Neither do other stupid mistakes. Standing by one's partner as they pick up the pieces after making a real mess can lead to a solidarity which can lead to great comfort and satisfaction as you age. And by the time you've lived together for over 40 years both are likely to make some big mistakes.

I can say now that I have a great husband. He is a kind loving man who enjoys my trust and love and we have both grown, changed, developed and are quite different from the 18 and 22 year olds we were when we first married.

So, Cool Blue, all the best for your future. Make your own life so that even if your first choice doesn't work out, a second choice isn't second best, but ends up even better.

Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on November 05, 2011, 07:33:19 AM
Quote
I was bothered by two things in these posts. Firstly the assumption that all was at an end. The second was a male-female/man-woman antagonism in the the writing.

Thanks Aussinana.  Are you saying you were bothered by my posts or the posts of others?  I kinda taken aback by the hostility that appeared to come from others who posted here myself.

Quote
a second choice isn't second best

That's a good point.

Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on November 05, 2011, 08:04:04 AM
Since my last update was 2 months ago I'll give a little update for anybody who's still following.

So I've been a stay at home dad for 2 months now which means we've been living off one income.  As I said before, we thought our budget would be tight, but we're actually doing much better than I thought we would. In fact, normally our bank account would be almost empty the day before payday, but we've had $200-400 in surpluses now!  We dump these surpluses onto debt.

I think this is partially because I've been pretty good at reducing our grocery bill, stocking up during sales, not wasting leftovers etc.

I had applied for a student loan, "just in case" even though I thought we could get by without it.  I wound up getting approved and decided to use it to pay off our existing credit card debts.  We went from 12% interest to 5%.  This will save us about $200 a month.

Plus I've applied for unemployment benefits.  Not sure if I'll get it but if I do I'll use that money to pay off the student loan. 

It's possible that by becoming a one-income household we might not only come out ahead but wind up debt free as well!

So apart from financials, I think the biggest plus is the decrease in stress.  We used to have to get the kids up at 5:30 and they would fight, scream and cry as we rushed to get them ready for daycare.  This situation was so frustrating that her and I would often start fighting as well.  Thankfully this is no more.

I'm increasingly beginning to believe that a lot of our problems in society is caused by having two parents working.  I can understand if you really have no option, but I think the income of the second parent usually just goes to paying for others to raise your kids, feed your family (restaurants, prepared meals), and clean/maintain your house (cleaning service, home repair services, lawn mowing). 

I think people feel that there is nothing to their lives except work so they try to compensate by purchasing stuff.  "Sure I work so much that I hardly see my wife and kids but look at the huge McMansion we have, our new cars and our two trips to Disney World!".  A lot of this is paid for by debt financing also.

So things are going well so far and I'm crossing my fingers that they continue.  What's going to be interesting is next income tax time when I'll be considered a dependent.  Our tax situation will really change and being in Canada, we'll probably get a big increase in our child care benefits.

This combined with the possibility of getting unemployment benefits means that we might actually be much better off with just one of us working.  If this is the case I might try to convince my wife to stay home another year to finish my studies (I plan to go back to work in Sept. but I won't graduate until the earliest Dec. 2012), look for a job in my field and possibly start my own business.

Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Heavy G on November 05, 2011, 11:39:30 AM
Awesome, Cool Blue.  Wise words.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: AussieNana on November 05, 2011, 08:13:44 PM
Cool Blue, I wasn't bothered by your posts, but by how some responded assuming that your wife was leading you on and getting ready to shaft you. While I'm ready to acknowledge that some people function like that I suspect that most don't - its just that those who get shafted are much more vociferous than those who aren't. One of the things is that when a couple has worked through bad stuff together and remake a marriage it seems somewhat disloyal to let others know about your dirty linen. Its only because I was some distance from our messes that I could mention them at all.

Congratulations on making another life and for finding that frugal living is working for you all.

You say that you think one of the big stresses on parents is to have both of you working. I completely agree. It takes all the resilience out of the system. But I think we also need to recognise that it shouldn't be automatic that one person/gender should have to be in paid employment or alternatively be the one who is working in the home. And it should be possible that once one has chosen a role that it be possible to change it later. One can like the idea of working/being at home but then find it just down't work for you. Or circumstances can change.

Marriage has its ups and downs and there are no guarantees that sacrifices you make will have a positive payoff in the end. But for many of us they do. For me it is just so nice sitting beside my husband with one of us stroking the other as we wind down at the end of the day. I can trust he will always act in character and I've come to accept that there are some things he will never do/be. The same goes the other way. As we enter the second half of our adult lives (we are both over 60 with another 30 or 40 years to go) we reckon we have a lot of good stuff to build on.

I hope and pray the same will go for you.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on January 25, 2013, 10:43:02 AM
Since so many people gave thoughtful posts and asked for follow up I thought it was time to update.  Maybe somebody can learn from this.

My wife and I separated and will be divorced soon.  I was my decision as I came to the conclusion that she would never change and that it had reached the point where my kids would actually be better off with her out of my life.

In my previous posting I'd mentioned it was going well and I was staying at home (wow, back in like Nov 2011!) and that things were going well, which they were at the time.

In April 2012 my wife again started telling me that she didn't love me and wanted to split up (which I realize now was just a way for her to manipulate me).  After a few weeks of this I finally said "lets do it then" and wrote up a separation agreement. 

This seemed to have shocked her and she suggested about going to couple's counseling which she's had refused before.  We went to one session and after being hit with reality during our conversation there she decided she didn't want to go anymore.  I told her that if things didn't change (her spending problems, not helping around the house, being hostile towards me) I wanted to split.

In June 2012 we had a financial emergency and when I went to withdraw money from our emergency savings I found out that where there should have been $2000 the account was actually $1800 overdrawn (this was actually the 3rd time she'd emptied the account without telling me).  I realized then that I'd never be able to build the type of future for myself and my kids with her because she'd never change, so I asked her to move out.  Strangely, the first time I truly felt like an adult man and father was when I decided to ask her to leave.

It took her until September to move out (she thought I was just bluffing) and was shocked that I was serious.  She actually couldn't understand why I'd want to split up!

Since the split up I'm back to work (and been promoted to supervisor) and finances though still tight from recovering from all the debt she put us in, is getting better everyday. 

I also met a great girl in October and she moved in with me this month.  I'm the happiest I've been in years. We'll be out of debt totally in two years, we'll be getting an RV BOV this fall, and want to get some raw land and build an off-grid (almost) home someday.

A small part of me wonders how much of the marriage problems were my fault though a call my ex gave me a month ago has settled my mind (though I know I'm not perfect I feel I did everything I could to keep it together and 90% of the problems were not mine). 

About a month ago she called me once again to ask me why I was hurting our family by splitting up.  During our conversation she blamed the ex-wife of the guy she had an affair with for the affair and mentioned that she was miserable and always broke...according to our separation agreement financial statements she has $1100/month in disposable income and pays no rent/utilities while living with her mom! 

I knew then that she'd never change and I'd made the right decision.

Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: ncjeeper on January 25, 2013, 11:16:32 AM
Glad to hear your living a better life now.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Docwatmo on January 25, 2013, 11:18:28 AM
Always a tough situation, but I'm glad to hear things are looking up and getting better.  Best of luck to you Blue and Thanks for the update.  I've been wondering about you.   
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on January 25, 2013, 11:53:45 AM
Thanks guys.  Things are really looking up.

I'm also 3 classes short of my degree in Environmental Studies now.  When I'm done I have a chance of getting a promotion at work and make like $15k more a year.  Plus I'd like to start a sustainability/prepping consulting business.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: MTUCache on January 25, 2013, 12:12:08 PM
Strangely, the first time I truly felt like an adult man and father was when I decided to ask her to leave.
This is one of the coolest sentences I've ever read on TSP... and that's saying something since we've got some really smart, wise, and deep people around here. I love when I get that feeling as well... like you're living up to your potential as a human male and not just living for someone else's expectations. Very well done.

The other sentence that really caught my eye in your excellent news:
Quote
I also met a great girl in October and she moved in with me this month.

Man... this could be great news or a horrible crutch. I hope it's the former. We don't really have any clue how your kids lives are going to be shaped from here on out, but I really hope that this new woman's presence in their lives is a positive one and doesn't cause other trouble for you.

In any case, good job on taking control of your life and carving out the destructive part(s) of it... no matter how painful.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: rikkrack on January 25, 2013, 12:15:16 PM
I have been in your exact shoes. I read through the thread. It does get better. It seems dark at times and then you hit the enlightened path and never look back. Couldn't be happier now and after going through that rough time I feel now I could get through anything. I gained so much from the experience. As sad to say the divorce and lessons I learned from the experience made me a stronger, more confident, and resilient person.

Good share and you got support here!
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on January 25, 2013, 01:08:02 PM

The other sentence that really caught my eye in your excellent news:
Man... this could be great news or a horrible crutch. I hope it's the former. We don't really have any clue how your kids lives are going to be shaped from here on out, but I really hope that this new woman's presence in their lives is a positive one and doesn't cause other trouble for you.


Ya that was a concern for both of us.  I honestly was a little disappointed because I was getting to enjoy my short period of singlehood.  I felt I couldn't let this one slip by though.

Her and I seem made for each other!  I often wonder if it was part God's plan for us to meet and that the problems in relationships she and I had in the past were part of this plan.

I'm not sure what my daughters seem to think of my girlfriend.  They seems to really enjoy having her around and she's has very good motherly skills.  My daughters are already behaving better.  I was worried a bit about having a girlfriend so soon but my ex also has a boyfriend now (though in fairness she also had a boyfriend while we were married so that probably isn't a"new" experience to her) ;D

Of course my ex believes that my GF and I had secretly been together behind her back for years...or at least that's what she's telling people! lol
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: rikkrack on January 25, 2013, 01:17:47 PM

Of course my ex believes that my GF and I had secretly been together behind her back for years...or at least that's what she's telling people! lol

OK really scary, starting to sound exactly like my life, with the exception married the GF few years ago. Funny thing we felt like we have know each other all our lives. Through all the drama with ex's we have never had a fight, about anythign. So if it works go with it, and now you know the signs of things to look for if, big if, they ever come back.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: livinitup0 on January 25, 2013, 01:23:58 PM
OK really scary, starting to sound exactly like my life,

hahaha....i was thinking the same thing about mine.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: rikkrack on January 25, 2013, 01:30:21 PM
My avatar is our daughter we had together.

Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: endurance on January 25, 2013, 02:28:42 PM
I'm glad you're adjusting to your new life well.  I just talked with my ex a couple weeks ago and the path she's taken is absolutely tragic.  Lost career, lost independence, and now in the midst of a bankruptcy, seven years after our divorce (where she had been making more than me, had a huge retirement savings (all spent now), and no debt, plus the larger half of the profits on the sale of our home).  I'm sad for her, but so grateful that I'm not on board that train while it careens off the tracks.  Some people are just destined for disaster.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Twibble on January 25, 2013, 02:36:28 PM
Ya that was a concern for both of us.  I honestly was a little disappointed because I was getting to enjoy my short period of singlehood.  I felt I couldn't let this one slip by though.

Her and I seem made for each other!  I often wonder if it was part God's plan for us to meet and that the problems in relationships she and I had in the past were part of this plan.

I'm not sure what my daughters seem to think of my girlfriend.  They seems to really enjoy having her around and she's has very good motherly skills.  My daughters are already behaving better.  I was worried a bit about having a girlfriend so soon but my ex also has a boyfriend now (though in fairness she also had a boyfriend while we were married so that probably isn't a"new" experience to her) ;D

Of course my ex believes that my GF and I had secretly been together behind her back for years...or at least that's what she's telling people! lol

You sound like my husband!  Pretty much same circumstances, except that we had dated waaaay before he met her (and broke up because I was going off to college) and the only reason he had married her in the first place was because she was pregnant and threatening to get an abortion if he didn't.  For some reason, his ex thought I was to blame for their marriage falling apart, not the fact that her husband found out the hard way that she was cheating on him with one of his best friends.  I was dating someone else at the time and had even went to their house with him early for a party and ended up taking the kids out to play so they wouldn't be in the apartment with her screaming.

I've never heard my husband yell and scream after she moved out.  My personality does not do well with that kind of conflict.  I flat out told him that if he yells or screams at me, he automatically loses because I will start crying, and he doesn't like to see me cry. 

Be prepared for her to use your girlfriend against you.  I was subpoenaed to the divorce hearings the evening before the hearings.  They came to an agreement before it happened, but it was still a bit nerve-wracking.  The only way that I was responsible for it was that after he caught her, after he'd calmed down and was talking about going to counseling with her, I asked him one question.  That question was, "Can you trust her again? Because if you can't, then what's the point?"  He answered no.  He is big on trust and loyalty.

We had to have it written into the divorce agreement that she cannot move out of the are we're in.  The kids came back after a trip with her and said that she took them to look at their new school.  They're bad at locations, but they said that it took 3 movies in the car to get there.  We think she was trying to move at least 6 hours away.  She has tried to pick up the kids when it wasn't her time to have them.  One of them was playing outside (in the fenced yard at his grandparents' house), and she flat out told him to get in the car.  She claimed that her lawyer had sent the information that she was changing her dates, but when she was told she could have them for that weekend as long as she was willing to sign something stating that she had changed weekends, she refused to.  The cops, whom we called, said that they couldn't do anything as it was a civil matter.  If the other one had not been inside, she would have just come, put them in the car, and driven off with them.

Hubby and I have been married a year and a half.  Their divorce hearing was 6 months prior.  She refused to sign the decree.  We had to go to a judge and have him sign something stating that the divorce had been final and the decree was affirmed so we could get the marriage license.  She was hoping that we would not be able to get married if she didn't sign it.  She screwed herself out of almost 6 months of child support in an effort to keep us from getting married, since it didn't go into effect until it was signed by her or by a judge.

If your kids have passports, make sure she does not have them.  A parent is supposed to have notarized permission from the other parent to get a passport or leave the country with the kids, but that is not always checked.

To this day, she'll promise the kids things, then tell them that she can't afford them and they need to talk to us about it.  They're always big things that are expensive and that would interfere with our time with them but that she isn't willing to commit to taking them to during her time. 

We make sure we never say anything negative about her in front of the kids, even if we don't think they'd understand what we're saying.  If they try to tell us they shouldn't have to do something because they don't have to at home, and that's their only argument, they are told that it is not acceptable and our rules are in place when they are with us. 

The kids are pretty well adjusted, all things considered.  However, we don't expect the crap coming from her side to ever stop.  We also don't expect her to ever start helping the kids with their spelling words (one of the kids had their tests the day after we had them last year - normally got 90+ on them; they now have the tests the day after she has them - most tests have been 70-80, the last one was under 50 because she didn't have them study until late) or not watch things that inappropriate in front of them (Eddie Izzard is NOT appropriate for their age) or actually pay attention to them beyond taking them places (the younger one started acting up a bit after the ex's boyfriend moved out - I think he was the one who actually paid attention to her).  She actively tries to get the kids not to talk to their dad (he has guaranteed phone time written in), to the point where one of them got a toy back because he didn't say he wanted to talk to daddy.  They're always watching TV and eating dinner when he calls.  If they ask to call her when they're with us for more than a weekend, they usually get to as long as they're not asking when they're already in trouble for something.  All we can do is the best we can do.  We take them to church when we have them.  We pray for them when they're not with us.  We turn off anything that's on when they ask to call her so they can concentrate on talking to her.  We occasionally wish we'd get a call when they're with us that something happened to her, but we don't really want that to happen because it would just mess the kids up even more.  He's a good dad, but he's scared to death she's going to try to take him back to court at some point and take more of his time with the kids away.

Document every time she tries to keep the kids from you.  Document every time she says something to kids about you.  Document every time the kids say that something you think is inappropriate is going on.  Keep it forever.  I have a list of things going in Evernote just in case it ever does go back to court.  I've been told that handwritten calendars hold more weight, but this is what works for us.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: MightyRunt on January 26, 2013, 05:13:23 PM
Thanks for the update and I'm glad life is working out for you!
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Gale Dacalio on January 28, 2013, 06:27:12 PM
Sorry to hear about your troubles man. From a lady - she sounds awful.  You are probably better off without her.  I don't know what your state laws are like.  But I would think if she is cheating on you.  You should get custody of the kids.  There are a lot of good women out here looking for a good man.  Dump this cheater and go on with your life.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: busymomx3 on January 28, 2013, 09:33:32 PM
Sounds rough but glad that your life is looking up.  Sounds like you finally meet the right lady and are happy.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Rutger on January 29, 2013, 09:00:08 AM
I just saw this thread and saw who started it. I opened it knowing your were close by and was going to offer to go for a beer but it sounds like things are getting squared away (not that getting a beer is bad any time ;)). Anyway, I am glad things are getting better for you and wish you the best of luck going forward. I have no doubt that kids are happier when the parents are happy (regardless of single or married though I am sure marriage is preferable). You are setting a fine example for them.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Cool Blue on January 29, 2013, 01:43:15 PM
Thanks buddy!  I appreciate the thought.  Things are going super-well.
Title: Re: Personal Disaster: My Wife Just Left Me.
Post by: Bennington1776 on January 29, 2013, 09:08:45 PM
Cool Blue, you have been through a lot and have been able to be the man your daughters will respect even more as they continue togrow up.  God has a plan for each of us.  He does not promise everything will be easy but he does promise to be with you every step of the way.  Stay strong and continue to progress towards your goals.