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Survivalism & Self Sufficiency Topics => Outdoors Activities => Camping => Topic started by: drthumbs on August 09, 2010, 11:34:35 PM

Title: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: drthumbs on August 09, 2010, 11:34:35 PM
I have been toying with alcohol stoves for many years now.  For the most part I have stuck to others of others. Wile the designs of others have influenced this one greatly, I am calling this my own.

It is a pressurized stove that does not need a pot stand. It has a large fuel capacity for a long burn time but can be adjusted by simply using less full. It is more durable than most stoves if its type.

It is heavier and larger than a lot of alcohol stove designs.

This is a tutorial on making one with items I had on hand, not with the best tools for the job. This is just to help show the ease in building.
 
I selected the aluminum bottle from a venom energy drink. Any aluminum bottle shout work with this design, but I prefer venom. These have thicker walls than any beverage container that I have found. This make for a heavier stove than others out there, but it is much more durable. These bottles also work great as fuel containers. I chose not to remove the paint.  I kinda like the way it looks with it, but simply sand it off if you wish.

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/drthumbs/S2010062.jpg)

The first thing is to get rid of the plastic ring around the neck.  A dremel make quick work of this, but working without one, this is the hardest part.  If you want a smaller stove, you can cut the neck off at the bottom of the plastic ring.

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/drthumbs/S2010068.jpg)

Cut the bottle in half with the top part a little longer.

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/drthumbs/S2010074.jpg)

I took my Leatherman's metal saw and cut flow ports to allow the fuel to pass from the fill chamber to the pressure chamber.

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/drthumbs/S2010077.jpg)

Invert the top and press into the bottom.  Being that it does have thicker walls, it is a little harder, but there is almost not risk of splitting out the side. Using a board will help give you more control and protect yourself.  Press till top is seated to the bottom. i used a board splint off the ambulance.

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/drthumbs/S2010082-1.jpg)

You cannot see it in the photos, but you will be able to see and feel where the shoulder of the top ans pressed out on the bottom.  Move up about 1/4 inch and mark.  Use tape or paper to mark a level line around the bottle at this point and trim to it as flat as possible.  A saw will work, but scissors are easier to work with.  The trauma shears I used made easy work of this.  I then used the file from my leatherman to smooth and flatten the rim.

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/drthumbs/S2010087-1.jpg)

Here you can see the inside with drain ports at the bottom

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/drthumbs/S2010089-1.jpg)

Wrap a piece of paper around the stove and mark the diameter. Decide the spacing you what for you jets and mark.  Reapply the paper and tape in place so the jets will about 1/4 inch below the shoulder mark. I had a EKG strip handy and it worked great as a template.  I place my jets at a 1 cm interval.

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/drthumbs/S2010091-1.jpg)

I want my jets small. I did not have any drills with me, but I did have some expired IV catheters.  I selected our smallest, 24 gauge, discarded the catheter and used the needle to drill.  The 24 gauge has an IO of 0.02 mm so that is about the size of the jets.

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/drthumbs/S2010093-4.jpg)

That's that. 
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: drthumbs on August 09, 2010, 11:40:03 PM
Testing.

Burn time can be adjusted with the volume of fuel used.  Maximum capability is 5 oz.  That is more than most alcohol stoves, but gives a good deal of versatility.

For this test I fill with 5 oz. and 2 cups of water

If you over fill, as the stove heats and primes and pressurizes, alcohol will sputter from the jets.  This is not a big problem, but it waste fuel and prolongs time till stove can be used.

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/drthumbs/S2010104-1.jpg)

This is a self priming stove. All you have to do is light the center reservoir. As it heats the alcohol vaporized and pressurizes the outside chamber. The jest will light of the flame from the center.  it will take a few moments for the flames from the jet to stabilize then you can place your pot on top. no post stand needed. I tend to prime externally by adding a little fuel around the base of the stove. Thought not needed it will prime the stove much faster.

Light center

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/drthumbs/S2010105-2.jpg)

prime externally

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/drthumbs/S2010107-1.jpg)

ready to use

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/drthumbs/S2010108-1.jpg)

Place stove on top

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/drthumbs/S2010110-1.jpg)

5 minutes 45 seconds to a rolling boil

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/drthumbs/S2010114-1.jpg)

25 minutes and still going strong

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/drthumbs/S2010115-1.jpg)

30 minutes and the jets are slowing down. at 33 minutes stove was out

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/drthumbs/S2010120.jpg)

Don't need 30 minutes of burn time, just add less fuel.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: Greywolf27 on August 09, 2010, 11:49:51 PM
Great post!!! 
After spending 5 days in the back country of Denali AK, I can see how something like this can be invaluable.  On my trip I did have a white gas stove to heat water and meals, something like what you have developed can be created with a simple energy drink can. 

One of the day hikes my g/f and I went on, was a thoroughly soaked to the bone trip.  We hiked up 1,500 feet of elevation in about a mile, it was raining and at the peak temp was about 40 degrees Fahrenheit.  If we had not been prepared to warm up afterwards, something like this would have done the job. Living in the city, we take for granted what a warm meal of cup a' can do for your physical (and mental) state. 
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: madcap1one on August 10, 2010, 07:26:28 AM
Awesome post!

I have been doing some experimentation with rocket stoves of different types - after spending countless hours on the interwebs and at REI/Campmor/Cabelas looking at commercial models - and hating that I was a slave to their fuel sources.

I may have to play with this one soon. Well, as soon as I can find my Dremel and denatured alcohol in the mess that is our new place post moving a week ago. Umm, perhaps finding the boxes with my blue jeans and shoes comes first - but soon I tell ya'!
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: Docwatmo on August 10, 2010, 09:30:50 AM
AWESOME.  I have 1 of these venom bottles at home.  I'll have to try this. 

+1, Great post.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: mxitman on August 10, 2010, 10:18:03 AM
+1 on the post great work, I still have yet to create my own alcohol stove. I played with a friends penny stove that he made. I just have a question.

1) how stable is the platform? did it feel pretty stable with the pot on it or did you have to carefully adjust it just right? I was thinking of when you have to stir in the pot, like a stew something that would throw it off balance. when I was using my friends alcohol stove it was pretty precarious when doing anything other than boiling water.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: joeinwv on August 10, 2010, 12:02:33 PM
Researching other small stoves like this - one idea that I like was to make a wind screen / pot holder from a metal coffee can. The version I saw removed top and bottom of the can, punched holes around bottom of the can to allow some airflow. Then put a few holes around the top and slide a few pieces of straight coat hanger through to make a pot holder.

This is a nice version as it is a little bigger - while cool, the beer can version just seems so tiny as to be almost useless. Certainly a good alternative to the esbit / triox stoves - also, can use grain alcohol as fuel or beverage.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: drthumbs on August 10, 2010, 05:59:20 PM
Thanks for looking and the comments everyone.


...
1) how stable is the platform? did it feel pretty stable with the pot on it or did you have to carefully adjust it just right?

...

It is pretty stable considering the fact that the base is smaller than the pot.  I take time to center the pot for better heat distribution, but it is not all that critical for balance.  If you are going to be string, you'll want to take positive control of the pot, but it is manageable.


...one idea that I like was to make a wind screen / pot holder from a metal coffee can...


A wind screen is a great addition to any alcohol stove. Wind can play havoc on them, and they also help focus the heat to the bottom of the pot. 

I like to take a soda can and cut the top and bottom off and cut down one side.  I take hole bunch for vent hole along the top and bottom and store  loosely rolled up.  This way it grips the bottom of the cooking pot.  with a pot of this size it will take 2

there is one rolled up in this pic.  I will see about posting a pic of one in use torrmrow

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/drthumbs/Stoves.jpg)


Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: joeinwv on August 10, 2010, 06:07:34 PM
Just winged one of these together - hardest part was drinking the Venom.... icky red bull tasting gunk. I could probably have one of these from empty can to lit stove in under 10 minutes now that I have made one.

I used a chop saw to cut the can in 1/2, dremel tool with cut off wheel to remove the plastic neck band and cut the grooves in the neck. Small piece of wood to press fit the halves together. Chop saw again to determine final height and give an even edge. Quick and dirty file job to clean up top edge. Used a 3/32 drill bit for one row of holes around the top edge. (would have preferred 2 rows of 1/16 holes, but that bit is broken)

First test, I had an old cafe bustelo coffee can - used the metal lid as a priming tray and put 2 cups of water in the can. Splash of denatured alcohol in the prime tray and a little less than 1/4 cup of DA in the stove. Lit the prime tray - vents lit off in about 20 seconds. Had a low boil in under 5 minutes.

Will certainly make a few more and tweak the stove a bit. This works great and is super simple. karma +1
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: Beetle on August 10, 2010, 08:25:38 PM
I want one, how much?
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: joeinwv on August 10, 2010, 08:32:02 PM
The crappy energy drink will cost you about $2.25.....

Seriously, this is super simple. Give it a shot.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: Beetle on August 10, 2010, 10:07:34 PM
   I am really bad at that stuff, usually fix the car with a sledge.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: drthumbs on August 11, 2010, 12:11:14 AM
Joe, I am glad to here that you have thrown one together already. they really are pretty simple to make.

I hate the drink, but I know people that drink them, so I scavenge from them.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: VTaero on August 12, 2010, 10:13:02 PM
I'm not sure I understand how you are using the rolled up soda can...   ???
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: drthumbs on August 12, 2010, 10:42:41 PM
they are wind screens.  I meant to have photos up of them in use, but it has not happened yet
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: VTaero on August 12, 2010, 10:48:51 PM
I understood that you intended them to be wind screens, but I'll just wait on a photo... thousand words and all.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: chris on August 22, 2010, 11:02:55 PM
Threw one of these together this evening. Kudos on a good write-up. The Venom can really is substantially better. The bottom can split a little but it's stable and works fine.

On a side note, the wife thinks I'm crazy. Two camp stoves and a kitchen at the farm, and I'm making an alcohol stove out of an aluminum can.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: bartsdad on August 22, 2010, 11:36:11 PM
On a side note, the wife thinks I'm crazy.

I think many of us here are in this boat. ;)
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: bartsdad on August 22, 2010, 11:42:55 PM
  I am really bad at that stuff, usually fix the car with a sledge.

Glad to see Red Green on the forums. ;) Seriously Beetle, you can maintain a chainsaw, you can build one of these.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: SteveandTracyinKY on August 23, 2010, 12:26:27 AM
Maybe its just late, but where does the water go? I don't understand how these stoves work. I thought you just poured alcohol in them. Also, where do you get and what is the fuel?
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: bartsdad on August 23, 2010, 12:31:21 AM
Water goes in small pot/cup on top of stove.

Alcohol goes right in the middle. The little notches allow fuel to get to outer chamber then heat pressurizes fuel coming out small holes.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: Stein on August 23, 2010, 07:39:32 AM
I have been making a few stoves lately and through trial and error have a few tips to share.

1.  If you have a big plumbing pipe cutter, it supposedly works great on this type of bottle, including the Bud ones available at ballparks.  I don't have one and use scissors.
2.  If you are going to push one piece into another piece, it greatly helps to polish the inside piece.  I use metal polish and fine steel wool, this polishes it to a near mirror finish and makes the process easier/safer and splits less cans.

There is an unlimited amount of information available on youtube and the project is very cheap.  I plan to make one for every car and 3-day kit due to the low weight and cost.

Nice work.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: TwoBluesMama on August 23, 2010, 07:46:48 AM
+1 from me.  Nice!
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: idelphic on August 23, 2010, 08:10:21 AM
Was at Kroger this past week - same basic bottle for $1 - Miller Lite Beer. 

I think this is a simpler design then I have seen elsewhere...
Good job.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: chris on August 23, 2010, 08:57:19 AM
Was at Kroger this past week - same basic bottle for $1 - Miller Lite Beer. 


Have you compared the two side by side? I was coming back from the neighbors and found a Miller Lite bottle that looked the same. I picked it up and tried it, too thin. When I went looking for Venom specifically, the bottle was surprisingly thicker.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: CookingtoSurvive on August 23, 2010, 10:19:17 AM
+1 Awesome post! Thanks for the great idea. I am on my way out to purchase some venom energy drinks right now.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: jakematic on August 23, 2010, 11:04:09 AM
Great post! Saw something similar in Backwoods Home recently but these instructions are much better and now I understand how to make one. Thanks!
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: inbox485 on August 23, 2010, 12:07:06 PM
When you poke the final holes, do you poke through both layers or just the outer layer?
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: drthumbs on August 23, 2010, 01:20:51 PM
Thanks for all the positive feed back.  I am happy to hear so many of you are trying this thing out.

When you poke the final holes, do you poke through both layers or just the outer layer?

Drill the holes through the first layer only.

again, thanks for looking
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: ncjeeper on August 23, 2010, 01:41:06 PM
Cool. Going to try and make one too.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: chris on August 23, 2010, 08:03:30 PM
I want my jets small. I did not have any drills with me, but I did have some expired IV catheters.  I selected our smallest, 24 gauge, discarded the catheter and used the needle to drill.  The 24 gauge has an IO of 0.02 mm so that is about the size of the jets.

Can you clarify this statement?

24 gauge wire is .02 inches. .02 mm equals .0007 inches.

My jets work well enough to cook with, but aren't performing as well as they should. I'm assuming that they're too big, and it's keeping the pressure low. The only thing handy I had gives a 1/32 inch hole, which is about 50% larger than a 24 gauge. I also may have to many jets. Thanks for any help you can give.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: drthumbs on August 23, 2010, 09:50:18 PM
Can you clarify this statement?

24 gauge wire is .02 inches. .02 mm equals .0007 inches.

My jets work well enough to cook with, but aren't performing as well as they should. I'm assuming that they're too big, and it's keeping the pressure low. The only thing handy I had gives a 1/32 inch hole, which is about 50% larger than a 24 gauge. I also may have to many jets. Thanks for any help you can give.

good catch. that should be 0.02 inch for around 0.5 mm. 
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: drthumbs on August 23, 2010, 10:01:23 PM
1/32 should work well. I have even used thumbtacks to made the holes and it gets the job done well enough to cook with.  Without seeing it in action, I can't guess what might be going on
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: chris on August 23, 2010, 10:09:22 PM
Without seeing it in action, I can't guess what might be going on

I get lazy orange flame coming out. Rather than a higher pressure blue flame.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: drthumbs on August 23, 2010, 10:18:44 PM
are you using isopropyl alcohol or rubbing alcohol?
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: Falling_blue on October 17, 2010, 04:20:06 PM
To start out, thanks for the post.  I was looking for a light weight camp stove and this post started me on the path to make my own.  No one in my little town sold Venom brand energy drinks so I made a couple bud light stoves and a Heni-pot.  On a recent trip I was excited to pick up some venoms at a gas station so I figured I would make one today.  

Here is my build process and results:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXmUHz_5P_A# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXmUHz_5P_A#)

The Power Dome EX was just to run the Dremel (and have some tunes to work to)

Drill was used to make jets with a sewing needle.  Makes good jets and cuts through like butter.

Initial impression compared to my bud light stoves:  Venom has larger capacity and larger platform (a little too big for the Heni-pot but great for regular pots).  Will work well when I need either more water boiled or longer burn time.  I primed by lighting the center and it took a little longer then my bud stoves.

Over all glad I made it.  Next stove project is a mini wood gas stove.



Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: CookingtoSurvive on October 28, 2010, 07:22:36 PM
After making a couple of these for our BOB's I have a few comments or suggestions. The simple fact that these are so cheap and I believe more self-sufficent as yo are not stuck buying expensive fuel exclusive to your stove design. I am trying to slowly turn my dad into a  prepper, I persuaded him to take part in the manufacturing process. After completing my first stove I had an amazing idea. Why am I drilling the holes after I press the two halves together. I now measure where I want to place the Jets on can and drill the holes before pressing the halves together. I ruined one stove by drilling through both walls. One proviso though, you will want to sand the inside of the can where you have drilled for your jets. Also instead of filing the stove smooth use an orbital or inverted belt sander.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: OldManSchmidt on October 28, 2010, 09:02:46 PM
Researching other small stoves like this - one idea that I like was to make a wind screen / pot holder from a metal coffee can. The version I saw removed top and bottom of the can, punched holes around bottom of the can to allow some airflow. Then put a few holes around the top and slide a few pieces of straight coat hanger through to make a pot holder.

This is a nice version as it is a little bigger - while cool, the beer can version just seems so tiny as to be almost useless. Certainly a good alternative to the esbit / triox stoves - also, can use grain alcohol as fuel or beverage.

I have done something similar to this using Sterno as fuel.  I took a 3 lb. metal coffee can, drilled a half dozen 3/8" holes around the top and bottom and placed the Sterno can in the middle.  I left the bottom on the coffee can.  The airflow was good and the can seemed to retain the bulk of the heat from the Sterno.  It takes a bit, but scrambled eggs are possible in my rig.

I suspect a metal, gallon paint can would work too as finding metal coffee cans is getting to be problematic.  Just make sure you get all the paint out first.  With the lid, a paint can would make a good carry case for the stove and a limited amount of fuel in small containers.  Just put them all in and pop the lid on.  Hook the handle on your pack and off you go.  Just remember to allow time for everything to cool first.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: Peter Pumpkin Eater on November 07, 2010, 06:23:28 AM
Thanks Dr.Thumbs here is my first attempt at a Venom stove:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUCTFxPOcB8# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUCTFxPOcB8#)

Thanks for the great idea.  One question though:  The edges of the two halves, if I heat them up with my torch will the temperature get hot enough to fuse the two metals together to make a cleaner top edge or will a file suffice?  Currently I just crimped the outer edge over the inner with a pair of linemans and then I used a sanding disc on my Dremel 4000 to lessen the thickness caused by the overlap.  The stove seems to work well but cosmetically is not as "pretty" as yours.

Pete
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: BatonRouge Bill on November 07, 2010, 08:57:42 AM
are you using isopropyl alcohol or rubbing alcohol?
+1 and thanks for the informative thread,...but which one should I use and how many holes are in yours?
.020" is = to a #76 drill bit for the machinist/millwright types.
Again, really cool alcohol stove!
Falling Blue, I look forward to your woodgas stove also.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: Peter Pumpkin Eater on November 07, 2010, 10:02:02 AM

Bill,
    I used HEET in my stove and it burned nicely.  You can use rubbing alcohol but make sure it contains the highest percentage you can find.  It really was a quick build it took me about 15 minutes total (not counting the time it took to drink it).  Since the video, I have sanded the Venom paint off and sanded the top lip to better fuse the metals.  Good luck.

Pete

Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: kc9eci on November 07, 2010, 11:01:52 AM
Here is the one I made about a year ago. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M569L2lhWPc# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M569L2lhWPc#)

I cheated though, I used a chop saw and a pneumatic rivet gun.  Took about 10 minutes.
Title: Re: drthumbs' Venom stove (pic heavy)
Post by: kc9eci on November 07, 2010, 11:12:50 AM
Here are some of my early attempts.  The one that the pan is sitting on is the easiest.  It was a tin of mixed fruit in a previous life.  I understand that cat food cans and vienna sausage cans work as well.  Just drill two rings of hols around it, pour in some alcohol (rubbing alcohol sucks, HEET in the yellow bottle is much better) and you're set. 

The beer/soda can ones are pretty simple to make as well.  I screwed a utility knife blade to a one inch thick block of wood, score two cans, peel them apart and press together.  Some people like to fill them with fiberglass insulation but I just leave them empty.  Once together I drill the holes, polish them up a bit on a wire wheel and we are good to go.  Takes about 10 minutes.  I think everyone I work with has one now.  I was building them compulsively on my 10 minute break at work for a while. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4iyqnC_u_0# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4iyqnC_u_0#)

If you dig around my videos you can find some of my radio motivated camping trips and see me using them in the field.