The Survival Podcast Forum

Survivalism & Self Sufficiency Topics => Outdoors Activities => Hunting => Topic started by: Chance72 on January 20, 2009, 08:35:05 PM

Title: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Chance72 on January 20, 2009, 08:35:05 PM
 Food for thought . Dont depend on hunting at all for your source of food ! One of the best reasons I can give for that is, if and when something takes place everyone else will be trying to do the same . Its good to be prepaired too take food from the wild ( which I do all the time ) but just dont think you can by any means survive on that . Fishing may be alittle better but just think if everyone in your city started fishing out of the same lake for a month . What do you think would happen ?
 To me gardening is a better option to depend on along with foods you have stored. Wild game is not as easy as you may think to take. I really dont know how many of you guys hunt or dont hunt out there . For the ones that do think of this . There is only so much game in the woods . You guys also know as well as me what happens when deer, hogs , and other game start to get alot of pressure put on them . Either they split or only come out late night to early morning .
 For the ones who have not been around alot of hunting in thier lives . First get out there and start having fun now to learn a few skills . Next, think of a few things . If and when you kill something , what are you going to do with it next . Have you ever killed a large animal such as a deer or hog . They sure are messy ! Remember , the bigger the animal the bigger the mess and guts pile . Small game are alot easier but takes alot to fill up empty stomachs . When you have killed and cleaned your game what you going to do next. If its small game thats easy , just throw it on the fire but if its deer size or bigger then how do we cook what we need and store the rest . Do you know how to make jerky or other means to preserve meat ?
 Last is unless you are bow hunting , when that gun goes off everyone around is going to have a good idea of where you are at . This is not a good thing when there will be alot of hungry people trying to survive just like you , with a familiy just like you who may go to the extrem to provide for his or herself or familiy .
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: DeltaEchoVictor on January 21, 2009, 04:20:15 AM
First, welcome to the boards Chance.

I think if you take a look around, you'll find most of us store the bulk of our food.  Even those of us who are & have been lifelong hunters, like myself.  We talk about hunting as a good skill to have to supplement our food stores.  I don't believe anybody here expects to be able to hunt all their food, the competition for food will be fierce...at least until the unprepared die off.  Not to mention, like you pointed out, hunting resources will probably be decimated because of the shear numbers of people who have not prepared for a SHTF scenario.

I think you're spot on with your gardening comment.  Long term it only makes sense & many of us here garden.  There are lots of other folks who are here that are learning so if you have words of wisdom get to our gardening forum & post away!

Glad to have you aboard. 
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Heavy G on January 21, 2009, 06:42:33 AM
Chance:

Welcome to the boards.  I've learned a lot here.  Nice people too.

I have stored food that my family could live on for a while.  I view game meat as a supplement.  For example, I have pasta and gravy mix.  That would do, but I would hope to have some meat in there too. (And since I live near rural areas near the ocean and bays, I look to shellfish and salmon.  But most people don't have that option.)

But you're right about not putting your eggs in one basket.  But people on this forum are much better off than the masses who put all their eggs in the grocery store basket!

P.S.  Don't forget bartering.  Maybe that deer meat could be traded for some pasta and gravy mix.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: kaiservontexas on January 25, 2009, 10:20:41 PM
I would not rely upon hunting. Hunting is a supplement. Hunter gathering would not be a good way to live in Texas, that much I am sure. Early Spanish observations of natives were that many suffered from famine. They never marked the reasons for this but I will assume prolong drought condition coupled with over hunting. I am also referring to the West and Central regions of Texas, but Central Texas is where I wish to re-locate in the future.

In anycase I am sure the same problems hunter gathers had in antiquity would be the same issues we would come across if we tried it. It is better to engage in agriculture and ranching then trying to live any other way in the long term. Food stores only last for x amount of time. Production is key to living life even if the world does not fall apart.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: PaCoTx on January 26, 2009, 09:32:50 PM
As a life long hunter, I'd have to agree with your topic.  Hunting will produce meat, but at a great expense of time and energy.  I remember my best hunting trip in college, when I went out for "survival" meat and had a deer out of the woods on the first day in time to make my class.  That can't happen every time that I'd need to put food on the table for a family.

Trapping is a viable alternative in a survival situation, along with gardening and/or harvesting native plants.  Trapping provides meat, and doesn't require you and your prey to be in the same location at the same time.  Not many people can shoot and then retrieve a muskrat or nutria, but a trapper can harvest them almost at will and provide food that would be overlooked by most people, including hunters.

Knowledge of native, edible plants can help sustain you when your crops aren't in, or you don't have access to stored foods.  (I realize that a lot of what I learned about edible plants growing up must be relearned now that I live in a different area of the US.) 
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: ColdHaven on January 26, 2009, 10:37:10 PM
I think this is a very important topic. I wonder what the cost effectiveness (time wise) of making a garden as opposed to hunting and harvesting meat. Maybe we should save those bullets to keep more than rabbits and deer out of the garden. I think most people think that they can pick up any weapon and use it effectively, and this goes for would-be hunters during a SHTF scenario. When they start to starve because they can't cultivate meat it might get kind of vicious. Keeping people out of your food might become a priority over putting deer on the table. And besides, if we attract animals to parts of our land then the meat would be coming us instead of us going to find it. There is a really good episode of Jacks which explains this in far greater detail. Might be worth a look to those who haven't heard it.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: johnnybgood30 on January 27, 2009, 12:22:23 AM
so have u guys with ground ever tought about buying cows?here we have more cows then people u can buy calfs cheep right now and just let them eat the grass on your land
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: 19kilo on January 27, 2009, 03:13:59 AM
so have u guys with ground ever tought about buying cows?here we have more cows then people u can buy calfs cheep right now and just let them eat the grass on your land


Would love to.  They would starve on my .12 acres.  Not in a position to move yet. 
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Ultio1 on March 10, 2009, 12:07:17 PM
Wild game in a post SHTF scenario would be considered targets of opportunity but in a serious national or global crisis where everyone is hard up and hungry I dont plan on seeing much game for very long. I think most folks here have or are putting a long term solution for the food issue. First build up some reserves. Start looking at ways to produce food. Sprouting, Gardening, growing mushrooms are a few good ideas to look into. Whatever you decide you have to do it now. I dont mean its that urgent, I mean if you arent good at it before you need it you likely wont get enough food when you do. I like to give myself several chances to blow it completely and try again without consequence. I have some sprouting seeds sealed in mason jars so I grow sprouts every so often. Practice is critical in this area imo.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: ModernSurvival on March 18, 2009, 03:13:39 PM
Some "game" that will be around a long time, if you can bring yourself to eat it.

Blackbirds/Grackles
Rats (cotton, wood, Norwegian, otherwise)
Insects of various variety
Etc.

On one level I am sort of joking on another though it is good to know what you CAN eat if you HAVE to,  ;)
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Sid on March 21, 2009, 03:51:03 PM
In a large scale, long term SHTF event, I agree that hunting will not provide anywhere near enough.

When the USSR broke apart back in the 1990's and their economy collapsed, some people started to hunt a reindeer type animal that was not normally hunted, and the population was wiped out during the first year.  I once took the Missouri Conservation Department's estimate of the total number of deer in the state, multiplied by the average amount of meat on one deer, and divided by the people population.  There was no way that would get people through even a part of a year.

Plus a lot of hunting is done on private land with the permission of the land owner.  You can bet that permission would be quickly withdrawn when the landowner needed what there was to hunt for himself and his own family.  This would leave only public land, and that would become very crowded.  I think it would be dangerous for people in cities to come out to the countryside unless they had a place of their own.  People in the countryside are not likely to look kindly on people trespassing on their property, and virtually all the land out here is owned by someone except for a relatively small amount of government land.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: cohutt on March 22, 2009, 06:26:45 PM
Agreed -

A few years ago, I noticed something odd in a "refuge" cloud forest (rainforest at 6000 ft) in Ecuador-

nothing was moving- lush tropical cover but no animals to be seen or heard other than an occasional bird and some frogs. 
I asked about it and the local guide basically said "the people are hungry here". 
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: FreeFire on April 03, 2009, 09:52:14 PM
I agree about the large game running out rather quickly in a SHTF situation.

But, let's keep in mind, many people lack the woodsmanship and accuracy to squirrel hunt with positive outcomes. I live in east texas, in an area with a great deal of deer and wildlife, but during the depression, deer hunting with dogs cleaned out the deer pretty quickly, so much so that it wasn't until the 60's that they started to come back around with any regularity, but still not too much until the 70's and 80's which also coincided with the outlawing of hunting with dogs.

Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: rustyknife on April 03, 2009, 10:28:01 PM
First: Welcome, lots of good people and info here.....Second: Hunting and fishing are only tools you would keep in your survival tool bag to keep yourself and your family going, it's not the final solution. Gardening is just as important. I've read lots of books about the mountain men and trappers that traveled this great country and one thing that always struck me was their talk about sending out hunters and them coming back empty handed. Keep lots of tools in your tool bag and you'll do fine.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Bioboy on April 10, 2009, 11:55:22 AM
Hunting/fishing will help with smaller scale emergencies. Like the job loss thing, Small game hunting and such. I don't know if I'm too worried about the people around me hunting. Within the frame work of the survival community there is a larger portion of outdoors people out there. I moved from the west to the east and hunting is going down severally in and around where I live and a lot of the hunters near me are more they I hired a guy to track the animal, I shot the animal and then went back to camp to eat a cooked for me meal while I sat on my ass and someone else did the field dress and the butcher. This is not the people on this site but this is where hunting has gone. The people around me even the hunters don't go much past sight line of the truck and generally stay in hotels when they are hunting. Even crown land that allows you to camp for a pretty much the full season without moving your camp.
Most of the city idiots are not even going to see a deer let alone shoot one even the so called hunters swelling the ranks that need ATV's to get to the Deer. I mean need as in walk half a mile and they are dead and complaining about walking. 

Now that being said gardening and gathering represent a larger contribution to calories versus output to get it for many hunter gathers/ horticulturist society . There is a reason why we developed farming in the first place it's a more certain food supply.             
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Heavy G on April 12, 2009, 12:28:01 PM
I agree with the general point that if SHTF the number of hunters will go way up and game will dry up.

But I think that impact will be regional.  In areas where people still know how to hunt and have hunting rifles/shotguns, then I bet this will be true.

But in grasshopper areas like where I live NO ONE knows how to hunt, at least in the suburbs.  And if SHTF, gas would probably be scarce so we would not just cruise out to the sticks to get meat.  Those living in the sticks would probably hunt and over hunt.  But you can't turn a grasshopper into a hunter overnight.

Then again, I think the point of the thread is that even if those in sticks are overhunting, that's enough overhunting to mean no meat later.  That I agree with.  I just don't think every Tom, Dick and Harry will be hunting.  Too many left-wing grasshoppers in my town watched Bambi and, when they find out I hunt, say things like "I could never hurt an innocent animal."  To which I say, "Me neither ... unless I'm really hungry.  So I practice on non-innocent animals like coyotes."
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Rhino on April 14, 2009, 12:10:09 PM
I agree hunting should not be the main plan.  It should be a back up plan.  It should never to an either or situation.  It should be an all of the above.

Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Kwitzats on June 23, 2009, 11:43:42 PM
Jack forgot snakes you can eat any kind.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: shangrily on July 05, 2009, 09:53:09 PM
all the unprepared masses (the few who even know how to shoot a gun) will probly not often get a kill shot and if they do they wont know how to find it using a blood trail. we may end up with a bunch of wounded animals with a bullet in there ass.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Winchester32 on July 06, 2009, 12:04:41 AM
all the unprepared masses (the few who even know how to shoot a gun) will probly not often get a kill shot and if they do they wont know how to find it using a blood trail. we may end up with a bunch of wounded animals with a bullet in there ass.


Bingo!!  Even if they did manage to get one down.....and find it, they likely would not know what to do from there. 
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Kwitzats on July 06, 2009, 12:39:55 AM
I think peoples capacity for survival is often underestimated in these forums culture aside we are all animals and carry a good amount of instinct.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: DeltaEchoVictor on July 06, 2009, 06:41:35 AM
I think peoples capacity for survival is often underestimated in these forums culture aside we are all animals and carry a good amount of instinct.
I think what's underestimated here (in the US) are the lengths people will go to to survive.  That's because even our poor have it good compared to the poor in 3rd world countries.

I live two blocks from the hood.  I'd say over half of the cars sitting in front of the government funded housing are at least as nice as my 12 yr. old Jeep.  A few are nicer, & a smaller percentage are not as nice.  Point is, the "poor" folks who need help paying for their housing all have cars, are probably getting tax payer subsidized groceries & aren't anywhere close to being in the shape of 3rd world poor folks.

If something happens where those folks don't get their subsidies then my concern turns to which instincts a select group of those folks follow, not whether their instincts kick in at all.

I don't think we can discount culture, how we're raised determines...to some extent...how we respond to what occurs.  Are people who have been given the means to survive the majority of their lives going to be content to sit around and wait for someone to rescue them?  I don't know & I hope I don't ever have to find out.  I think I'll keep planning & prepping to just to be safe.

Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: ThomasPayne on July 06, 2009, 08:45:16 AM
Delta:
To answer your question about what your near-by neighbors will do in a SHTF scenario, I think that all you have to do is remember what happened immediately following Katrina. Looting and stealing was the standard fare. I really don't think that a future SHTF event will result in things being different. Those with out will seek out those with and will try to take anything they want.
Hope you have a remote BOL and will be long gone before that occurs.
Thomas
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Winchester32 on July 06, 2009, 08:50:50 AM
I think peoples capacity for survival is often underestimated in these forums culture aside we are all animals and carry a good amount of instinct.

When you have a capacity for survival without a capacity for morality, it is an ugly mix.  I have no doubt the hordes will being relying on some sort of instinct, but it won't be to forage for food in the woods, or eat an animal caught with a homemade snare or to suddenly try their hand and gardening or fishing.  They will become predators and anything in their line of vision will be prey. 
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: TexDaddy on July 06, 2009, 09:07:02 AM
They will become predators and anything in their line of vision will be prey. 
Count on it.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: DeltaEchoVictor on July 06, 2009, 09:29:07 AM
Delta:
To answer your question about what your near-by neighbors will do in a SHTF scenario, I think that all you have to do is remember what happened immediately following Katrina. Looting and stealing was the standard fare. I really don't think that a future SHTF event will result in things being different. Those with out will seek out those with and will try to take anything they want.
Hope you have a remote BOL and will be long gone before that occurs.
Thomas
Agreed, & I've already experienced those without, seeking to take from those with.  In fact, I experience it on a weekly basis.  I was trying to remain as hypothetical as possible so as to not sound too doom and gloomish.  My town has a population of around 14,000 (last I checked) & the lower socioeconomic areas aren't as concentrated as those in the cities, so the scope & intensity won't be quite as bad, but the places that do get bad....will be bad.  I'm right on the edge of one of those places.

The thing that works in my favor (hopefully), is that the bulk (pun intended) will be just plain too lazy to take any initiative towards securing their own future, i.e. stealing from others.  They'll be content to sit on their large backsides & wait for someone to come take responsibility for them.  Those that will take intiative...already have & will continue to do so, no matter what.  These are the folks that we'll have to watch for.  I've already met a few. ;)

Where I live has given me plenty of interaction in the last 4 years with the dregs of society to give me a very good idea of what will occur should something long term occur.  Planning & prepping....planning & prepping....it continues. ;)





Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Tennessee Mountaineer on July 06, 2009, 09:41:48 AM
 It seems to me  that you shouldn't rely on anyone thing to provide, The wider variety of resources you have in your bag o tricks your chances of survival go up.
 
  Ever think of trying trapping? Far more effective. a real asset multiplier. A few bucks invested in snares and leg hold traps can go a long way. The trick is to have traps in numbers, know your prey, and check them regularly.

Also in worse case scenario the techniques you can use to hunt are different. If you try to hunt according to most Fish and Game regs you will starve for sure, But if you can use bait, jack lighting, night hunting, driving, dogs and other illegal techniques oyu can improve your chances of putting meat on th table> You'd have a wider selection of game to take as well with no hunting or bag limits either.

 The issue with solo hunting is that it is labor intensive. Hunting in groups does help hunting and this applies to foraging too. Foraging with a group is more effective.
The lone hunter providing all the food for his family is not the best strategy for a group but hunting to supply your own needs can be effective if your forage and gather at the same time. Humans were hunter gatherers for a long time so it must be an effective survival strategy.

It's the how,what,when,where of hunting that determines your effectiveness. For instance you can hunt while your checking your trap line then forage and gather on the way home to work your garden and tend your animals.Works for me anyway.  That's my 2 cent. be of good cheer!
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: phuttan on July 30, 2009, 02:58:40 PM
When I read the words, survival hunter, I remember working my uncle's farms. When we went out to check the cattle, fence lines or anything else we always took a .22 for groundhogs. We sometimes shot rabbits or squirrels. That's how I think of survival hunting. I wouldn't sit in a treestand all day. I would go out working and maintaining the land. And I would always have a gun matched to the game in season. I say in season because you don't want to draw attention to yourself if you can avoid it. If you have a woodlot, harvest it in a way that naturally attracts wildlife. Thin your woodlot, then plant autumn olives or other food shrubs for wildlife. Leave oaks and other crop trees standing. You can even mulch and feed them so they produce better crops of acorns. In the winter drop some evergreens so the deer, etc can feed on them. Thin along your property lines and plant thorn apples or similiar trees and shrubs. They provide a thorny barrier and food for wildlife. Animals will find ways through but getting pricked by thorns will discourage people. Improving your land doesn't only apply to fields and gardens. To a survivor, it also applies to woodlots. Groom your woodlots to increase potentials harvests of edible plants and wildlife. Groom them in a way that discourages people from crossing your property lines. There are many uses for select thinning and planting. If you provide wildlife with their needs for food, water, shelter, and discourage access to other people you should have deer, etc on your land for longer than most people. YMMV.

Pat
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Justinicus on August 20, 2009, 05:19:17 AM
How about keeping rabbits?  I hear they're pretty simple to breed and maintain, and a heck of a lot quieter than chickens!

-Justin
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: phuttan on August 20, 2009, 05:25:12 PM
Rabbits are good. If properly managed, they can produce surprisingly large amount of meat. They are pretty easy to care for and poop out good fertiliser.

In times when desperate people hunt out areas, they will probably also be willing to raid gardens and livestock pens. So, a remote piece of land that is difficult to find and managed in a way that discourages unwanted visitors will always be ideal.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: pug-shadow on August 26, 2009, 05:54:36 PM
Kind of interesting story.

A group from my church was doing some missions trips in northern India, which is a huge forest area.

One thing that struck them is that there are absolutly no animals or birds or anything in the forest.
It was all cleared out by the locals.

Im am sure in a large food shortage situation the same thing would happen everywhere.

Hopefully after I learn some stuff about permaculture that might be a good thing for those guys to take back there..  at least its renewable

just a comment...
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: phuttan on August 27, 2009, 07:04:19 PM
Pug Shadow - I understand what your saying. But, hungry people can clean out an orchard or garden as fast as a forest. I read an article, decades ago, by a man that lived in a poor area during a famine. The building he was in had fruit trees in front. They had to guard the trees and chase hungry locals away. When the fruit ripened, they did share it with the locals. He said that the most difficult thing he ever did was protecting those trees. Hungry people will do anything they can to get food around the clock. If it looks like food, they wipe it out even before it ripens.

Pat
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: smkymtn on August 27, 2009, 07:41:27 PM
 First:  When the masses start panicing and leaving in locus swarms from the city they are not going to be thinking about being Davey Crocket, they are going eat and drink everything in sight, you will have a small percentage that will learn/or already know what they need to do before they take each other down.

Second: Revaluate your BOL if that many people are going to be taking everything in sight! Guess what after the game is gone your NEXT!

Third: If you pick a proper BOL you will not have to worry about supplementing with hunting, it won't be a problem. There are areas where people are not going to go through trouble to make it to.

This should be titled "Don't depend on hunting in populated areas".
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Vinny T. Firefly on September 28, 2009, 01:25:42 AM
If hunting was the best way to get food we would have never developed farming! I've never been hunting and although I would like to I would never plan on that, or fishing, on being my primary source. When I was a kid I used to fantasize about living in the woods and living off the land. Now that I'm older and a little wiser I know better. It's a good skill to have, an even better one to hone but, to rely on that as your sole sustenance when the world turns upside down will test more than just your skills... it will test your very soul. Think about it.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: phuttan on October 01, 2009, 02:24:58 PM
Remember that Indians, etc used a combination of agriculture, foraging for plants, fishing, hunting, trapping and anything else they could think of. Crops can fail. Hunting can fail. Fishing can fail. Food storage can fail. Diversity is the best plan for survival.

Jack has talked about fences, gates and signs keeping most people out. Thorny thickets and geography can also help.

Plants gardens and orchards. Keep livestock. Nurture or plant native trees and plants that produce food mass for people/livestock/wildlife. Hunt, fish, trap. Learn primitive foraging/hunting/trapping/fishing methods.

Have wells/creeks/ponds/rain harvest for water.

The rule of threes applies to everything. Multiple, redundant, independent methods help you get past a system failure. Don't depend one single system for anything. And don't forget to have fun with it.

Pat
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: bernardclare on January 30, 2010, 10:30:36 AM
Suppose a widespread continuing SHTF situation arises. Desperate neophyte hunters, many who've never held a firearm before, are in "your" woods.

What I'm about to suggest is repugnant but something to think about. The hordes are competing with you for food you need to survive. One factor is getting "your" share of the available game. The other is ... darker. If firearms or ammo become currency, something very valuable to barter, and commerce as we know it no longer exists ...

Hunt the hunters. Do what partisans in a desperate fight do. Take anything useful the other has. He has no further need of it.

What goes around comes around. Even if there is no widely recognized government, sooner or later karma will get ya.

But prepare ye. Somebody might be hunting something other than squirrel or deer. They might be hunting YOU.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: phuttan on January 31, 2010, 12:51:08 AM
The best self defense is avoidance. That's why I suggests the use of terrain/flora to discourage passage through your property. Most people take the path of least resistance.

As for hunting the hunters, I would try to avoid the need. But you can find Long Pork Cookbooks on the net.

Pat
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: DeltaEchoVictor on February 01, 2010, 07:46:21 PM
As for hunting the hunters, I would try to avoid the need. But you can find Long Pork Cookbooks on the net.

Pat
**Gently nudges this thread away from this course of discussion**
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: phuttan on February 02, 2010, 09:33:58 PM
**Gently nudges this thread away from this course of discussion**

Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation. Hee hee
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: DeltaEchoVictor on February 03, 2010, 08:45:32 AM
Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation. Hee hee
;)
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: YOOJ on February 18, 2010, 10:48:57 PM
Some "game" that will be around a long time, if you can bring yourself to eat it.

Blackbirds/Grackles
Rats (cotton, wood, Norwegian, otherwise)
Insects of various variety
Etc.

On one level I am sort of joking on another though it is good to know what you CAN eat if you HAVE to,  ;)

I am pretty certain I have eaten rat.  I have eaten at enough street taco stands in Guadalajara, Mexico City and Puerto Escondido to all but ensure that I have ingested mystery meat that was most likely rat.  But, if so, it was f'ing delicious and the best tacos I've ever had.  Well, except maybe for the octopus tacos... those were something to write home about.

But yeah in a true SHTF situation large game is harder to deal with, as it MUST be properly cared for and it will be more difficult to preserve.  But while it may be more work per animal, it will be less continuous round the clock effort if you can come up with a means to preserve it.  One deer preserved in some way (salt, smoke, etc) can be stretched, whereas you may be out every day after a few squirrels or fish.  Some form of trapping (rat?) combined with hunting/fishing and obviously gardening would help to minimize the effort spent for the amount of reward.

Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Steaker on February 24, 2010, 09:34:23 PM
Anyone raising meat goats or sheep?  Easy?
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: smkymtn on March 06, 2010, 09:25:55 PM
Anyone raising meat goats or sheep?  Easy?
Goats are require more care than other livestock, they can get sick easy if there is a draft in their house, need interaction so you need a few. They are great with kids and are higher in protien than beef. They just need more care.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: smkymtn on March 06, 2010, 09:30:53 PM
Rabbits are good. If properly managed, they can produce surprisingly large amount of meat. They are pretty easy to care for and poop out good fertiliser.

In times when desperate people hunt out areas, they will probably also be willing to raid gardens and livestock pens. So, a remote piece of land that is difficult to find and managed in a way that discourages unwanted visitors will always be ideal.
But rabbits have to be eaten lightly because of the low protien. You can starve by eating nothing but rabbit. Research what happened to trappers in the 1800's by living off of rabbit.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Heavy G on March 07, 2010, 10:44:13 AM

But rabbits have to be eaten lightly because of the low protien. You can starve by eating nothing but rabbit. Research what happened to trappers in the 1800's by living off of rabbit.


We happen to have a thread on this very subject: http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=995.0 (http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=995.0)

I note that it's from the early days (November 2008).  It has the topic number 995; now we have over 13,000.  Kinda cool.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: phuttan on March 15, 2010, 12:02:13 AM
But rabbits have to be eaten lightly because of the low protien. You can starve by eating nothing but rabbit. Research what happened to trappers in the 1800's by living off of rabbit.

It's the low fat content that causes the problem. You can eat rabbit everyday and you'll be fine as long as you have a fat source in your diet. If you don't have an adequate fat intake, you will eventually starve to death no matter how many calories you eat. That's what leads to stories about rabbit sickness/starvation. Eating a diet of nothing but rabbit can lead to death. But if you fry it in fat, you'll be fine.

Pat
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Who...me? on March 15, 2010, 12:40:02 AM
Or make rabbit and peanut butter samiches.   ;)
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: DeltaEchoVictor on March 18, 2010, 10:30:44 PM
Or make rabbit and peanut butter samiches.   ;)
lmao...

sorry, carry on. ;)
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: JGreene on March 19, 2010, 04:54:04 AM
If we're going down the total SHTF, Mad Max scenario, (highly unlikely IMHO)  there will be a high demand for food for the first year, but then, as those needing various medications to survive, the elderly, and those who just plain freak out, will be gone. 

Nature will make sure that we only achieve a population that the land will support.  If you can make it past the first dreadful period (guessing at a year?)  then the population and the available game/farm land will stabilize. 

We just have to make sure we can make it through that first period, during that time, preparing (it will never stop) to prosper after.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Recycler4570 on March 28, 2010, 10:35:38 AM
I literally have elk, bison and mule deer wandering through my yard almost daily, but I doubt I could find any of them is I really needed food!
Also, because Teton Nat. park is only a couple hundred yards away there are a lot of protected coyotes who keep the rabbit population down to a minimum.
In a serious SHTF it may become "tourist season" ;)


I haven't put it to the test but have been told that "rabbit starvation" can be prevented by eating the brains and marrow of the rabbits as that has at least a little fat.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Soularcher on April 09, 2010, 10:54:25 PM
I am a lifelong hunter, mostly archery.  I would use hunting as much as possible to feed my family.  My wife and I garden a lot too.  BUT, my question is, how do you protect your garden from thievery in a SHTF scenario?  Especially since you would need to guard it all night long, in the event that hungry people would try to steal the food.  I am thinking that, once food gets scarce enough, people will do anything to eat, like steal your veggies while you sleep...
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Heavy G on April 10, 2010, 07:06:09 AM

my question is, how do you protect your garden from thievery in a SHTF scenario? 


An important question.  We have threads on the general topic of protecting your place.  I can point you to them if you'd like.  I don't want this thread, though, to veer off into that direction.  But it was a good point to bring up.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Komodo on April 10, 2010, 12:33:42 PM
I've never hunted anything myself, and it concerns me that I don't have this skill.  I read how so many of you are excellent hunters and could easily provide food for yourself, and I always wonder how many years you've been practicing to get that good.  I've recently started learning to shoot.  At this point, I believe I could hit a bad guy (big target) and end the discussion, but I'm not near good enough to hit something small and moving like an animal or bird. I agree with the original post, that I'm not going to rely on hunting as a food source.  Even if I got lucky and hit a large animal, I wouldn't know how to make the most efficient use of it.  I think I have a better chance of gaining protein through fishing or perhaps using snares.  A little down the road, I hope to raise some chickens to add to my options.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: Guinness5 on August 16, 2010, 11:36:24 AM
I was once told by an old man that when he was a boy during the depression, you couldn't find a squirrel around anywhere. They sure have come back since then, but that tells you a little about how that food source was pretty well used up in a time of economic trouble. Imagine if there was a free for all on game. We could be looking at the same result for many species.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: phuttan on August 16, 2010, 07:23:23 PM
I am a lifelong hunter, mostly archery.  I would use hunting as much as possible to feed my family.  My wife and I garden a lot too.  BUT, my question is, how do you protect your garden from thievery in a SHTF scenario?  Especially since you would need to guard it all night long, in the event that hungry people would try to steal the food.  I am thinking that, once food gets scarce enough, people will do anything to eat, like steal your veggies while you sleep...

For protecting the garden, the best I can recommend is to put where it won't readily be seen or whrere terrain/vegetation detures people. Do a web search for guerilla gardening. It should give you ideas for plants that aren't obviously food and spead your garden out so it isn't as noticible.  One idea is to plants potatoes along tree line and don't weed them much. People might not even know that they are there. Hide/obstuct/disperse it.


I was once told by an old man that when he was a boy during the depression, you couldn't find a squirrel around anywhere. They sure have come back since then, but that tells you a little about how that food source was pretty well used up in a time of economic trouble. Imagine if there was a free for all on game. We could be looking at the same result for many species.

During the depression they hunted thing we don't eat. Ground hogs, opossums, etc have been eaten by my grandfather and others I knew when I was a kid. I think trappers did better than hunters both because of their traps and targets of opportunity. Also people didn't talk about there secret spots. If they found an area with game, they did their best to keep it hidden.

Pat
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: BatonRouge Bill on August 16, 2010, 08:35:08 PM
I have to agree with Phuttan post reply# 34. All survival methods should be employed, hunting, gathering trapping, fishing, farming/animal husbandry and storing/preserving. Hunting should be for both migratory game when in season, and large and small game local game while trying to conserve a large portion of local game for the future. Wild Rabbits do not have much fat but not true with tame rabbits. A young 7-8 week old rabbit where most are harvested are still growing and haven't much fat stores older tame rabbits will build up some butter fat. Nutria, and Musk rats after proper removal of musk glands and fat are better eating than wild rabbit. I don't particularly like the carnivores like raccoon, possum, mink or otter, nasty greasy musky critters. Small and large Birds can be excellent seasoning meat with rice. Turtles are another abundant critter that can be pretty good as a stew or over rice. Jugging rivers in the spring, cooning oysters, gigging flounder in the summer...Dang I wish I was a teenager again!
Anyway I have goose decoys, duck decoys, dove decoys, a bass boat, a small shrimp boat, a small frog/catfish jugging boat, a pirouge, shot guns, deer decoys, 3 wheelers, Crab traps, Crab nets, crawfish nets, cast nets, Nutria leg traps, snares, hoop nets, 50 catfish jug lines, 4 dozen yo yo's tight lines, and most importantly is the knowledge to make most and repair all. Also 3 freezers full of Fish/Shrimp, Game and storebought meats. I bought my first car trapping over a winter and shrimping over a summer. Clearly local population will dictate how long over consumption will take to deplete animal poplations. In coastal south Louisiana it may take decades.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: sdcharger on August 17, 2010, 12:33:28 AM
Packs of wild dogs will make good eating too.
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: phuttan on August 17, 2010, 06:14:24 PM
Now we're getting into the survival mindset. This is why I say that knowledge is so important. If you know how to remove the scent glands, you can harvest a food source that would be disgusting otherwise. If you know recipes for lots of non game animals, you can make them taste good. When others think that all the game is gone, survivors won't argue. They'll be to busy eating the non game. Add knowledge of local edibles and we have salad and veggies to go with our meat. Jack loves the Amaranth plant. Would most people even recognise it as food? We have so many options acrossed the US and the world. Look around your area. Make a mental note of the animals and plants you see. Purchasing identification guides for plants and animals is a big help. Then try to find recipes for everything in the your area. Also remember that  most meat can be mixed with pork trim/fat for sausage. Keep the spices you need for recipes now or start planting them around your yard/gardens. Most people seeing clumps of unknown herbs against your house or fence line will think that they are weeds. Know what resources you have available and how to use them. Diversity is the best survival plan.

Pat
Title: Re: Dont depend on hunting !
Post by: sdcharger on August 18, 2010, 03:11:18 AM
Stew just about anything with vinegar and soy sauce and you are golden ;)  Goes well with all that rice you have been saving ;D