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Survivalism & Self Sufficiency Topics => Lady Survivors => Topic started by: pistolpete on June 16, 2013, 08:00:58 PM

Title: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: pistolpete on June 16, 2013, 08:00:58 PM
oh  shit  here  we  go.  I  do  love  my  wife.  I  love  my  kids  with  my  whole  heart  and  then  some (2 girls 6 and10).  When  I think  about  the  future  I am scared to death!  I have  10  acres  of  forest  land  that  is  connected  to 50  acres  and  nice  farm  house  my  Dad  has  been  working  on  for  20  years.  My wife  has  never  seen  the  land  with  her  own 2 eyes.  She's  afraid  of  woodticks  and  other creepie  crawlies  that  may  very  well  be  in those woods.  I can't  make  her  see  we  could  have  stable  life  there.  All she  sees  is  the  exit  from  our  convenance  driven  disposable  world  and  it  scares  her.  Not  me,  where  can  I  go  from  here?  I don't  want  to  walk away  from  15 years  of  marriage  or  my  family  legacy.  I  don't  want  this  to  end  in  divorce  but  also I  have  at  my  fingertips  rural  land  that  so  many  pe ople  are  working  so  hard  to  have  access  to.  I  own  this  land  outright.  I  cannot  let  this  resource  go  unharvested. 

p.s. land is over 425 miles away from current location                                                                                           

                                                                                   truly torn prepper,

                                                                                    pistolpete
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: LibertyBelle on June 16, 2013, 08:49:40 PM
I do love my wife. I  love  my  kids  with  my  whole  heart  and  then  some (2 girls 6 and10).

No, Pete, I really don't think you do.  In fact, it sounds to me like you are feeling tied down and just want to be free from the drudgery of being a "family man," and this is the best excuse you can come up with. Because a man just doesn't just up and after 15 years, decide that he loves a piece of property, more than he does his wife and children. That's if you ever really loved them at all.  You've had the land for 20 years...before you married your wife or had children. But it's only NOW you realize you can't live without IT, but you can live without THEM? Really???  Remember the "for better or worse, til death do you part"?

Although DH says, "Tell him to 'Do It'!" Then he adds, "Because she and the kids would be better off without him than being stuck in a relationship with him."

Just our 2 cents...
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: MTUCache on June 16, 2013, 08:59:56 PM
If I had to choose between a 'perfect' homestead that had everything I needed to support me in any situation (which obviously doesn't exist) OR spend the rest of my life in indentured sevitude hating my life but being able to spend time with my wife and boys?

It's not even a question... I'm sticking with my family.

You've got a lifetime to turn her head towards this. If she's not into THIS part of your lifestyle she's probably into some other part of it. I've got a cabin that's been in my family for three generations (my boys will hopefully be the fifth)... I would trade it in a SECOND if my family was at stake.

Do the parts she likes first. Do some of the other critical stuff without her knowing 100%. Some of it will have to slide, but eventually she might come around to seeing things your way.

90% of being a 'good husband' in today's world is being supportive. The most important 10% though? It's still about being a provider and protector. Used to be the other way around, and it might be someday again, but you don't really want to get a prefect setup and not have the people there who you're supposed to protect and provide for, do you?
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: Bonnieblue2A on June 16, 2013, 09:39:37 PM
Not certain why this is the Lady Survivors forum. Did you really want to know what women think?

I suspect there is much, much more to the story. But, since you threw this out there in a public forum here goes. It is pretty simple really.

All you have to do is ask yourself one question:  Do you want another man raising your daughters?

You see, it stopped being about you and what you want the day you found out you and your wife were expecting your first child. Now it is about what those little girls need and what is best for them. Either you are the best father for them or you are not and you are ready for someone else to fill your shoes and take up residence in their lives. Ask yourself which is it.

You can research for yourselves the affects have on girls growing up in a home where the father has left. Or, you can read up on how many young girls get molested by their mother's boyfriends. Leaving your girls when they are this young will in all likelihood negatively affect their own future relationships. Is that land worth it to you to scar them, to abandon them, to leave them to someone else to raise?

The land has nothing to do with anything. It is an excuse and a distraction from the real topic at hand. Little boys throw fits about what they want. Men live up to their responsibilities. If the mother is unfit then that is another topic entirely and you should already have petitioned for sole custody.

Yep, that was harsh. Truth hurts. Marriages shouldn't be disposable and children should always come before your assets. But, that's just my opinion. YMMV.
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: theBINKYhunter on June 16, 2013, 09:56:00 PM
The land has nothing to do with anything. It is an excuse and a distraction from the real topic at hand. Little boys throw fits about what they want. Men live up to their responsibilities.

game. set. match. bonnieblue hit the nail dead on the head.

pistol, you need to man up quit bitching like a little... well... bitch. seriously, i don't feel bad for the flame fest coming your way. to even consider leaving over DIRT is terrible. i'm sure there is more that we don't know, but with what you said i think you need to seriously reevaluate your life, your marriage, your daughters, and everything else.

the dirt is not going anywhere. the question is: are you? MTU is dead on as well when he says you can work on convincing your wife. i don't know how you can because i don't know your situation, but i bet you can. it probably won't happen over night, it will probably take years of slow methodical work. notice i say work, not manipulation. you need to love your family and be there for them. focus on her and what she loves about you and develop and nurture your relationship.
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: nelson96 on June 16, 2013, 10:09:04 PM
I've got 4 kids from two marriages (2 kids from each).  From my own experiences I can tell you I would do EVERYTHING in my power to keep my marriage together and raise my children with both their parents in the same home.  But, I also know that it is not healthy for children to be raised in an environment where two adults can't work together, or worse.

I'm sure there is more to the story than what you have mentioned, but I'm stuck on not being able to "make  her  see  we  could  have  stable  life  there".  I would look first at why you would "make" the mother of your children do anything and then at why you couldn't have stable life where you both could agree on (a compromise).  A farm house on ten acres of forest that is paid for and connected to any amount of farm land, ain't squat if your family isn't there with you.  It kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it?
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: osubuckeye4 on June 17, 2013, 01:57:47 PM
A lot of other people have said this, but you seriously need to think about what is best for your 6 and 10 year old daughters.

I highly doubt that uprooting your family and moving to the middle of nowhere (425 miles away) is what is going to be best for them.

They have friends, they have schools that they are going too... why would you just want to uproot and head for the middle of nowhere?


Have you talked to them (your kids) about this? What are their thoughts?



Also, can't you compromise with your wife on this? Maybe get a hall pass one weekend a month to drive out to the boonies and do whatever it is you need to do out there to remain sane?

I don't know... all I can say is (as a 31 year old father of one daughter), being a man/grown-up doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want. It means that you have to do a lot of things you really don't want to do for the sake of your child/family.

Best of luck to you though. I just have a feeling that if you follow through on this, it is going to be one of those things you're going to look back on 5-10 years down the road and realize was a terrible mistake.
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: oldcountryboy on June 17, 2013, 02:34:46 PM
My wife pasted away a little over four years ago. And I have started doing things she did not like to do. But I would give it all up in a heartbeat to have her back. Maybe you don't have a clue what true love is. IT IS WHEN YOU THINK OF THE OTHER PERSON FIRST AND ALWAYS FIRST. I was married for 34 years and don't fell whole now. And you wanting to give it up for a piece of dirt. You need to sit down and take a long look at yourself.
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: Ms. Albatross on June 17, 2013, 02:58:26 PM
A farm house on ten acres of forest that is paid for and connected to any amount of farm land, ain't squat if your family isn't there with you.  It kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it?
Can I get an amen?

All you have to do is ask yourself one question:  Do you want another man raising your daughters?

You can research for yourselves the affects have on girls growing up in a home where the father has left. Or, you can read up on how many young girls get molested by their mother's boyfriends. Leaving your girls when they are this young will in all likelihood negatively affect their own future relationships. Is that land worth it to you to scar them, to abandon them, to leave them to someone else to raise?
Bonnieblue is not exaggerating.  Please don't abandon your daughters...

For better, or worse, YOU picked this woman to be the mother of your children.  I realize you may have been in a different place in your life when you married her and you have changed because you have woken up to the realities of what is to come.  So you have to do what you can from where you are. 

Focus on what you CAN do not what you can't.  It will be difficult to convert her but you can do things with your girls. 

Start a garden and get them involved.  There are dozens of books on getting kids into the garden Roots, shoots, buckets and boots is one I like. 
Volunteer to be 4H club leader and get your girls involved in raising domestic, "farm" animals.  Rabbits, quail, chickens, dwarf goats. 
Take your girls for weekend camping trips - let your wife stay home and have a quiet weekend of rest and relaxation and time to spend with her friends.  Act as if you are doing her a favor or giving her a gift.
Read "survival fiction" books with your kids - especially the 10 year old. Hatchet by Gary Paulsen is read in many 5th grade classes.  In a year or so, read Julie of the Wolves by Jean Craighead George.  In middle school read the Life as We Knew It series by Susan Beth Pfeffer.  I think your oldest is a little too young for The Hunger Games series but she will probably be old enough by the time the last movie comes out.  Even the Little House on the Prairie books by Laura Ingalls Wilder teach a lot about rural life.
You can even do some rural skills activities disguised as "crafts."  Teach them to make their own soap and do it as project to give as Christmas gifts, etc...
If a time comes where one of them has to do a science project for school, encourage them do something like make a solar oven, or all the ways to purify water, etc...
When your girls get older, take them to a kid's gun safety course and teach them how to shoot.  If you feel your wife will object, either do it secretly (like Glen Tate's character does with his daughter in 299 Days.  The daughter loves having that little secret between herself and her dad :)) or maybe your wife would be open to your daughters learning the sport of archery.

To the best of your ability, do the kinds of things that you would do living in the county.  Just scale it back to fit the circumstances you currently live.  Don't do things as "chores or work",  do them enthusiastically and with a sense of fun and wonder.  Your girls won't be able to resist!  Be creative!

You have 12 years until your youngest turns 18.  Do what you can in the next 12 years and then decide what to do from there....
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: pistolpete on June 17, 2013, 03:12:40 PM
 thanks everyone for your comments.  I posted here after a big fight and a few beers.  I was pretty sure I would have my ass handed to me on this board.  That is what I needed.  thanks for the reality check folks.
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: Morning Sunshine on June 17, 2013, 03:25:08 PM
you should also read, if you have not already, the thread on how to flip your spouse.  It is a long read, but full of useful tips and moral support.
http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=3239.0

My hubby is on board with my prepping.  He loves it, and it is a source of pride for him that I do it.  So much that he likes to brag on me about our self-sufficiency gains and our food storage and the skills I learn.  I have had to ask him to tone it down just a smidgen unless we know well those to whom we speak.  But even so, I have learned a lot on that thread about how to approach others about prepping.
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: pistolpete on June 17, 2013, 03:29:36 PM
thanks, I will check that out.
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: d3nni5 on June 17, 2013, 03:36:29 PM


I want to approach this from another point of view.   Relationships are a two way street.   I'm certainly not advocating abandoning children, or throwing away years of marriage, but sometimes you reach an impasse with the one you love.

Where are the outcries for her meeting him halfway?   Why must he bend to her will and throw away something that is important to him, whether it is newly realized or a life long dream?  It shouldn't matter.

To me it is not as easy as telling him to "suck it up because that is what a man would do" and resign himself to live with the regret.  Sounded to me like he wants to include his family in this journey.
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: pistolpete on June 17, 2013, 03:58:57 PM
yes I want to include my family. That would be best for everyone involved.  I just don't think my wife sees it that way. Maybe I can make her see the light over time.
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: nelson96 on June 17, 2013, 04:27:14 PM
thanks everyone for your comments.  I posted here after a big fight and a few beers.  I was pretty sure I would have my ass handed to me on this board.  That is what I needed.  thanks for the reality check folks.

Glad to hear it.  Your situation is worth a good check-check.


I want to approach this from another point of view.   Relationships are a two way street.   I'm certainly not advocating abandoning children, or throwing away years of marriage, but sometimes you reach an impasse with the one you love.

Where are the outcries for her meeting him halfway?   Why must he bend to her will and throw away something that is important to him, whether it is newly realized or a life long dream?  It shouldn't matter.

To me it is not as easy as telling him to "suck it up because that is what a man would do" and resign himself to live with the regret.  Sounded to me like he wants to include his family in this journey.

I hear you, that's why I wrote what I did in the first paragraph of my OP.  There was no way that things could be reconciled with my first wife in order to save my marriage.  But, it wasn't where either of us wanted to live that ended it.  If pistolpete can't make his marriage work, I would hope it wouldn't be based on the subject of his OP that ends it. . .  A good marriage is typically based on compromises that work for both and NEVER by force or ultimatums.
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: Ms. Albatross on June 17, 2013, 04:51:26 PM

I want to approach this from another point of view.  Where are the outcries for her meeting him halfway?   Why must he bend to her will and throw away something that is important to him, whether it is newly realized or a life long dream?  It shouldn't matter.

To me it is not as easy as telling him to "suck it up because that is what a man would do" and resign himself to live with the regret.  Sounded to me like he wants to include his family in this journey.
You make a valid point.   :)

But when PistolPete was dating Mrs. Pete, I'm sure they had lengthy discussions about what their future life was going to be like.  Living in suburbia, having 2.5 kids, a job with benefits, yadda, yadda.  When they agreed to get married she agreed to that life.  She didn't agree to a rural homestead 425 miles from their current location.

Just because he has changed (and wised up :)), doesn't mean she has changed.  Getting married is like signing a contract.  He wants to change the terms and she doesn't.  That's not what she "signed up" for.

That doesn't mean he shouldn't try to move forward.  It just means he has to be smart about it and try to find ways to get her on board.  I agree with Morning Sunshine's advise to read the "Flip Your Spouse" thread.  That would be a good starting point.  Maybe starting with preparing with the most likely disaster that might happen to him and his family.  Job loss, disabling injury or disease or tornado or floods.  (Sorry I don't know much about Iowa weather - where PistolPete is from). 

And, as I said in a previous post, he should be doing things where he lives now to live the kind of life he wants.  He just needs to do some serious evaluation of Mrs. Pete's motivations and interests and try to worm his way into her head.  The person who wants to change the contract, has to make the new contract as good or better than the old one.  He just hasn't figured out how to do that yet.
 
Is she into healthy eating and exercise?  PistolPete should be growing a garden and raising their own meat animals to provide their family with the healthiest, most organic diet possible. 
Is she a soccer mom who has her kids signed up for tons of activities?  PistolPete has the right and obligation to have a say in what activities they are in.  If he would like them to be in 4H and marksmanship classes, he should sign them up and Mrs. Pete can sign them up for Ballet and soccer.  They're his kids too.
Etc., etc., etc.....

I agree that she should at least hear him out and try to come up with a compromise solution.  Maybe a neutral third party (marriage counselor) could help them with opening the the dialogue and hearing each other's point of view.
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: Bonnieblue2A on June 17, 2013, 05:30:58 PM
Ms. Albatross hit on some very good points. The time left with your daughters is going to fly by as soon they will reach that age where they would rather hang with their girlfriends than their Dad. Don't waste these precious years with them.  Cultivate your relationship with your daughters and wife because they are the human permaculture of your life.




Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: Bonnieblue2A on June 17, 2013, 06:05:19 PM
Maybe this will help:    http://youtu.be/P_Lna0mh1t4
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: Ms. Albatross on June 17, 2013, 06:22:07 PM
Cultivate your relationship with your daughters and wife because they are the human permaculture of your life.

Well said, Bonnieblue!   :)  I may have to steal borrow that phrase in the future!
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: pistolpete on June 17, 2013, 09:17:41 PM
Wow!  everyone here is so insightful. I truly and sincerely thank all of you.   
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: Dainty on June 17, 2013, 10:11:03 PM
So glad to see how this thread turned out. :) Stick around, pistolpete. We can never have too many people around here willing to learn. :)
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: donaldj on June 18, 2013, 12:18:14 PM
For me, without my family I would have no reason to prep. I do it for them, not me.
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: osubuckeye4 on June 18, 2013, 01:21:51 PM
thanks everyone for your comments.  I posted here after a big fight and a few beers.  I was pretty sure I would have my ass handed to me on this board.  That is what I needed.  thanks for the reality check folks.

I think any of us who are married have been there (to some degree) at some point or another.

I know I have.




I want to approach this from another point of view.   Relationships are a two way street.   I'm certainly not advocating abandoning children, or throwing away years of marriage, but sometimes you reach an impasse with the one you love.

Where are the outcries for her meeting him halfway?   


Grumble grumble...


Also, can't you compromise with your wife on this? Maybe get a hall pass one weekend a month to drive out to the boonies and do whatever it is you need to do out there to remain sane?

*toot toot* (the sound of me tooting my own horn)
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: Eagles mom on June 18, 2013, 08:41:15 PM
She's never been there. Your dad's been working on it for 20 years. Ask dad to host a family event where you'll be obligated to attend and then book the family into the nicest hotel within driving distance. Schedule some spa time for the girls. Attend some cultural points of interest. Stop by the homestead for the event, but make sure to leave before they're ready. Let them ask for a return visit. Do NOT talk about living there. If they say anything about it, ask questions, but don't give your opinion.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You can, however, salt the oats.
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: d3nni5 on June 19, 2013, 05:23:36 AM
She's never been there. Your dad's been working on it for 20 years. Ask dad to host a family event where you'll be obligated to attend and then book the family into the nicest hotel within driving distance. Schedule some spa time for the girls. Attend some cultural points of interest. Stop by the homestead for the event, but make sure to leave before they're ready. Let them ask for a return visit. Do NOT talk about living there. If they say anything about it, ask questions, but don't give your opinion.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You can, however, salt the oats.


nicely put +1
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: Roundabouts on June 19, 2013, 01:50:56 PM
You just have to decide what you want.  I wanted to live a farm type lifestyle always have since I was 8.  Life happened and it didn't really work out that way.  Got older and realized life happened because I didn't take a stand when I was younger.  Told hubby this IS what I am doing and how I am going to live my life now.  You got two choices join me or don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.  Not a debate or negotiation.  This is my life and I am finally going to live it the way I want.   My only regret is that I didn't do it decades ago.  Have lived to many years not being true to who I am.  Sacrificing and staying together just for the kids sake is not always the best answer or the best life for any one involved.   Only you can know what the truth is. 
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: Bonnieblue2A on June 19, 2013, 10:23:54 PM
Part 2 of convincing your spouse from Mrs. Wranglerstar's perspective:  http://youtu.be/ZI5iCrFJ2rM
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: Jack Crabb on June 20, 2013, 12:31:54 PM
I have  10  acres  of  forest  land  that  is  connected  to 50  acres  and  nice  farm  house  my  Dad  has  been  working  on  for  20  years.  . . . I  own  this  land  outright.

You might want to check your state's law on property division in the event of divorce. It may be that Mrs. Pistolpete is also the owner of 10 acres of land that she also owns outright too. If a judge orders the property sold, or orders a cash payment that can only be satisfied by the sale of the land, it kind of defeats the purpose.
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: MTUCache on June 20, 2013, 08:57:46 PM
You just have to decide what you want.  I wanted to live a farm type lifestyle always have since I was 8.  Life happened and it didn't really work out that way.  Got older and realized life happened because I didn't take a stand when I was younger.  Told hubby this IS what I am doing and how I am going to live my life now.  You got two choices join me or don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.  Not a debate or negotiation.  This is my life and I am finally going to live it the way I want.   My only regret is that I didn't do it decades ago.  Have lived to many years not being true to who I am.  Sacrificing and staying together just for the kids sake is not always the best answer or the best life for any one involved.   Only you can know what the truth is.
Wow... I'm honestly torn between a twinge of respect and being appalled at how selfish that sounds. Obviously I don't know anything about your marriage, and I'm sure you're paraphrasing how the actual events went, but...

"This IS what I am doing and how I am going to live my life now."
"Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out."
"This is my life and I am finally going to live it the way I want."

Gotta be honest, it doesn't sound like there was much marriage left there at that point anyway.

Conversations like these are what turn divorces from sad into really ugly, bitter disasters. And not to be sexist about it, but if you read a husband's account of him talking to his wife like this, you'd probably assume this guy was at best a verbally abusive jerk.

Man.... I think I need to go hug my wife now. This topic is all kinds of unhealthy.  :o
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: nelson96 on June 20, 2013, 09:52:48 PM
Conversations like these are what turn divorces from sad into really ugly, bitter disasters. And not to be sexist about it, but if you read a husband's account of him talking to his wife like this, you'd probably assume this guy was at best a verbally abusive jerk.

 ??? Was thinking the same thing.  I have two more thing to be thankful for; a wife that doesn't talk to me that way and a marriage that is pretty darn mutual in terms of goals.
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: Roundabouts on June 20, 2013, 11:00:19 PM
Wow... I'm honestly torn between a twinge of respect and being appalled at how selfish that sounds. Obviously I don't know anything about your marriage, and I'm sure you're paraphrasing how the actual events went, but...

"This IS what I am doing and how I am going to live my life now."
"Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out."
"This is my life and I am finally going to live it the way I want."

Gotta be honest, it doesn't sound like there was much marriage left there at that point anyway.

Conversations like these are what turn divorces from sad into really ugly, bitter disasters. And not to be sexist about it, but if you read a husband's account of him talking to his wife like this, you'd probably assume this guy was at best a verbally abusive jerk.

Man.... I think I need to go hug my wife now. This topic is all kinds of unhealthy.  :o


Different people handle things different ways.  None are right none are wrong.  You do what works for you in your own truth.  Sometimes in life it has been my experience that you have to throw down the gauntlet to make a point.  Lay your cards on the table and sometimes that can come with an ugly truth sometimes not.  Either way the air is cleared and every one knows exactly where one stands.  No confusion no doubt no games no double talk. 

I don't think this topic is all kinds of unhealthy.  It can be very insightful and helpful to others.  See you wanted to go hug your wife and appreciate  her even more.  I think it is also helpful for people to understand that you can come through hard times just fine.  No matter the problem.  Many couples have hard times.  To many people get married and think it's going to be all candy and kisses.  When strong feelings show their head they bail.  Like fear, doubt, unemployment, infidelity, illness, death, homelessness, addictions, dreams, desires, wants, anger, joy, confusion, the list is endless. 

  It has always been helpful to me to hear the good bad and ugly.  All those that have been willing to share have taught many lessons about how we can find our own truth.  Individually and as a couple.  That may be why we are still together after 34 years.  That may be why we have endured so many of life's surprise crap storms and come through still standing strong.   

No I don't think a man is being an abusive jerk if he is speaking from his heart in truth.  There is a difference.  Making I statements to clarify what one wants is not abusive nor is it selfish it is nothing short of matter of fact and laying the cards on the table. An option was given join me in my life or leave. That would be his choice and I would and did have to respect his answer no matter what.  But that is what works for us against all odds.  We are together from the age of 16 met on a blind date.  The rest is history as they say.  LOL   So I stand by my original point find your own truth and go from there. 

"You just have to decide what you want."  "Only you can know what the truth is"
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: d3nni5 on June 21, 2013, 07:19:47 AM

I still stand by my original reply.  And again, to be clear, I'm not advocating abandoning anyone, especially young children, to live your life your own way.     

I'm going through some relationship problems myself, something I've thought I may post about, but I'm not ready to discuss on a public forum.  But without detailing it, I am more on the RECIEVING end of a similar attitude as the OP.   She is not happy, wants to live her life differently.  As much as it hurts, what can I do?   We are remaining "adult" about it and not fighting in front of her kid, etc etc.   But it doesn't seem like we are going to be able to work it out.   What we are working out is how to do this responsibly with as little pain as possible.

The bottom line comes down to one word for me....REGRET.   Continuing to walk down the wrong path in life , no matter how far you already have come, only hurts YOU.   Yes, it may sound selfish, but when you lay dying on your bed at a ripe old age are you going to be satisfied?   

Maybe you have picked the right path, and great for you!    Maybe you've been going through the motions for years because that is making everyone else around you happy.   If that is the case, Shakespeare sums it up pretty well..


Quote
This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
Farewell, my blessing season this in thee!
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: osubuckeye4 on June 21, 2013, 03:46:41 PM

Different people handle things different ways.  None are right none are wrong.


That is complete bullshit. There are proper ways to handle situations and there are improper ones.

I had a buddy who was married for 4 years. During this entire 4 year period, his wife had apparently been shacking up with his best firend.

One day, the best friend gets a job across the country.

How does the wife react to this? She takes her husbands credit cards, maxes all of them out, buying herself clothes and electronics along with an airplane ticket to Arizona (where the best friend moved). Leaves him a note that he finds when he comes home from work one day.


Sorry, that's wrong. I don't buy into the whole, "what gives you the right to judge someone else? Maybe she was just following their heart and you can't judge!" mumbo jumbo.

Bullshit, there is right and wrong and I know what is right and what is wrong. She was wrong for what she did and I do and will continue to judge her, I think she's a worthless piece of garbage and I've let her know that if she does fall flat on her face, she better not come to anyone I know for help, or I will go out of my way to ensure it doesn't happen. If she wanted a divorce and wanted to go to 'Zona... more power to her. Stealing her husbands credit cards and maxing them out to finance it (along with a bunch of other frivelous purchases), is not okay in any way.




That being said... I agree with you somewhat though, in that, when it comes to divorce and marriage... there's a whole lot of gray area.

There are also wrong ways to handle situations though, don't get caught up into thinking there are not.
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: properintent on July 04, 2013, 09:35:14 AM
Hi pistolpete,

If I was in your situation, these are some of the feelings I would be having:

I feel that it is my role in the family to protect them and provide for them.  I currently see the family farm 400+ miles away as the best opportunity for me to fulfill this role.  I sometimes experience anxiety over this role, and that I fear that I may not be able to do enough or the right thing.  I am frustrated that my wife is not seeing that this role is important to me, and in a way makes up a big part of who I am.  I sometimes resent her for not recognizing that this is a very big part of me.  When she belittles or ignores the need for preparedness she belittles me! 

--

Women often do not recognize that men have some deep emotions when it comes to providing for their families, solving problems, etc.  Men often feel it is their job to solve their family problems or guide their families to avoid problems.  When we're not fulfilled in this role, or worse, when we're attacked for it, we feel helpless or frustrated.  Men don't like feeling helpless.  Society is reprogramming men to not be leaders at home, and that is a bad thing.  We just have to be more sophisticated in our leadership abilities.  As a rule, no longer get to wear the pants in every respect anymore.
--

Your desire to protect and provide for your family are extremely valid and good goals to have.  Your frustration is normal.  It just seems you and your wife are not communicating or in touch with your base emotions.  These usually stem from fear or shame.  Sometimes fear of shame. 

Some suggestions: Find validation for your deep emotional desire to protect your family from within and you already have it from the people on this forum.  By recognizing and giving voice to what is truly motivating you to move the farm you will better understand what to do.  Moving to the farm is just one possible solution to better orienting your family situation to the future.  There are many options.  There are some incredible benefits to your kids to be raised in a loving family with healthy parent role models.  Some of these benefits are innumerably more valuable and of certain benefit than forcefully uprooting your family or risking divorce.  Find alternate ways to satisfy this healthy and natural desire to protect and provide for your family.

--

I learned all this flowery sh*t while going through my divorce with an alcoholic who I loved very much.  I had to take our 2 and 3 year old girls from her and I'm raising them by myself.

I recommend "Hold Me Tight" by Sue Johnson.  It explains how husband and wives fail to communicate their emotions properly and don't recognize that what their spouse is really asking for, nor which of their own deep emotions their behavior stems from.

I recommend the youtube videos by Brene Brown on vulnerability and shame.  These are some of the most powerful, misunderstood, and repressed emotions in society.  People destroy their own lives, and the lives of others by running away from these emotions instead of owning them.  I'm not saying to go cry your eyes out at the water cooler in front of your boss, I'm saying that its perfectly healthy to feel shame and fear of the possibility of not being able to provide for your family.  I'll say that a man SHOULD feel that.  It is our reaction to those feelings that screws things up. 

Ok that's probably enough for now :)

-PI
 
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: RitaRose1945 on July 04, 2013, 10:10:52 AM
PistolPete, I think you figured it out, but I just wanted to agree with this post from properintent in case anyone else came looking with the same problem.

Women often do not recognize that men have some deep emotions when it comes to providing for their families, solving problems, etc.  Men often feel it is their job to solve their family problems or guide their families to avoid problems.  When we're not fulfilled in this role, or worse, when we're attacked for it, we feel helpless or frustrated.  Men don't like feeling helpless.  Society is reprogramming men to not be leaders at home, and that is a bad thing.  We just have to be more sophisticated in our leadership abilities.  As a rule, no longer get to wear the pants in every respect anymore.

So very true.  And sometimes, as women, we've been taught that allowing a man to lead in the family is being weak and we'll regret it.  In reality, the key is finding a man worth following, and then standing beside him as a team.

I learned all this flowery sh*t while going through my divorce with an alcoholic who I loved very much.  I had to take our 2 and 3 year old girls from her and I'm raising them by myself.

I divorced an alcoholic husband after 13 years of marriage and countless moments of terror when he decided that his misery was all my fault.  He literally told me once that the reason why he drank so much was because I wasn't very good at keeping the house clean.  And there were a number of times when he decided right next to my head was the perfect place for a fist-induced hole in the wall.

Divorce is a big deal.  If you think it ends all of your problems, you're wrong.  I've done it twice - once from the alcoholic with a temper, and again from my 2nd husband (stupid, stupid mistake) who refused to hurt his girlfriend's feelings by breaking up with her.  And it's never simple or easy or pretty.  It's even worse if you have kids because you STILL have to deal with your ex, except now they don't even have to pretend to be civil.

I still have to have contact with my 1st husband, even though it's a decade later and our kids are legally adults.  Thankfully, I do think he has done some growing up, as well as realizing I don't have to put up with his tirades anymore.  He has actually become helpful and somewhat respectful, mostly because I grew a spine and demanded that from him.

Now I'm in a healthy and wonderful relationship with Jay, and one of the best things about it is that we both have the ability to compromise.  We also have a huge appreciation for each other (3 years later, he still opens every door for me, and I still say "thank you" every time).

I think once you get into the "he vs. she" mentality, it's really hard to compromise and you can get selfish with what you want as opposed to what's best for the family as a whole.  And when you do that, someone has to be the first to give in and work at making their partner happy.  Eventually, they tend to react with trust and it sets a new model for how the marriage works now.  Not always, but you never know unless you try.

Okay, I'm done with Lessons From My Stupid Years.
Title: Re: goin through the big "D" and I don't mean Dallas
Post by: Hilltopper on July 09, 2013, 01:13:10 PM
I think Eagles Mom is a very clever and shrewd person.  That advice , ' you can lead a horse to water but can't make them drink, but you can salt the oats '  was not lost on me , thank you !