The Survival Podcast Forum

Farm, Garden and The Land => Permaculture, Land Management and Foraging => Topic started by: surfivor on November 02, 2013, 12:32:27 AM

Title: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: surfivor on November 02, 2013, 12:32:27 AM

 I have innoculated some shitake logs starting 2 and a half years ago. A couple of logs have produced mushrooms but I have not gotten many at all. I am thinking of trying a different supplier. I have soaked logs in water and all and have them in the shade of white cedar trees up in the woods Maine

This website sells 1000 plugs for $35, that's like 1/3 of the price I paid for my plugs. I am not sure how long they would keep in the fridge as it would take me along time to use them all ? Anyone familiar with this supplier ?
http://www.mushroompeople.com/products-page/spawn/

 I also saw you can use sawdust spawn. You can get a sawdust innoculation tool for $30 or so, or I guess you can also use a chainsaw to cut into the log instead. Sawdust spawn seems to be a bit cheaper to order than plugs on some sites. Does it last longer in the fridge ? Can spawn or plugs last 6 months or a year in the fridge ?

This web site says spawn usually won't last longer than two months, I would have thought maybe longer but the place I bought mine from told me something similar I believe and I have always used the span as soon as I could right away:
http://www.mushroom-appreciation.com/mushroom-spawn.html

mushroom mountain seems to be another popular supplier in South Carolina. Should I be concerned that they are down south and I want to grow mushrooms in Maine ? They sell a 5lb bag of sawdust spawn for $25 and claim that you could innoculate 40 logs with that much spawn. It would take me a long time to do that many logs by drilling holes and using plugs. My drill would constantly need recharging and I don't have electricity at my camp. If I used sawdust, I wonder if I could just cut into the logs with a chain saw, shove in a bunch of sawdust spawn and seal the cut up good with duck tape. I could do alot of logs that way faster if I didn't have to seal them with wax. I'd have enough extra spawn to experiment with different types of wood: oak, maple, poplar. I am not sure I would want to cut all my oaks right off anyway and with that many logs to do using some poplar would also conserve some of my maple although I have 10 acres and haven't even really inventoried all the wood I have way in the back, but I have sections where there's lots of poplar.

 
This web site says spawn usually won't last longer than two months, I would have thought maybe longer but the place I bought mine from told me something similar I believe and I have always used the span as soon as I could right away:
http://www.mushroom-appreciation.com/mushroom-spawn.html

mushroom mountain seems to be another popular supplier in South Carolina. Should I be concerned that they are down south and I want to grow mushrooms in Maine ?

Here's another interesting one. This site says the guy cut a tree down but left 6 foot stump in the ground with roots and all. Then he cut out wedges, put in oyster mushroom sawdust spawn inside and then reattached the wedges with finishing nails:

(http://forestfarmingbook.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/whatis.jpg)

http://centerfordeepecology.org/page/2/

 
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: surfivor on November 02, 2013, 01:12:24 AM

 I just saw that mushroom mountain says spawn can store 6 months to a year, seems to be different info there ?
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: Cedar on November 02, 2013, 02:01:47 AM
I have stored 6 different kinds in the fridge in zip pock bags inside a cardboard box for at least 6 months. I also just mothered off my 'spent' mycelium from cardboard into more cardboard and today I noted it was seriously spreading through the new stuff. When this is done I will restart it in straw.

Cedar
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: surfivor on January 22, 2014, 02:03:31 AM
 So I ordered a 5 pound bag of shitake sawdust spawn from mushroom mountain in south carolina for $25. It seems you get more for the money that way than the plugs I used before. They told me they freshly make the spawn so it should last longer in the fridge than spawn from alot of other places.

 I was told that you can do logs in the winter, though some sites seem to indicate that this may set back your production a bit. Up at my camp where I do the logs, it can get to 15 below zero and there's been a few nights like that this winter. I did 24 oak logs this past weekend. I ordered this cool tool that helps inject the sawdust into a hole drilled into the log. After the battery on my electric drill ran out of juice I abandoned that approach and cut notches into the logs with my chain saw. The notches are basically 1.5 to 2 times the width of the chain saw blade done in a kind of tricky way to accomplish that and cut fairly deep into the log and only on one side of the log, but the notches are big enough to hold quite a bit of sawdust spawn. These notches are just big enough to get my fingers into. At first I did a ton of notches that where cut at right angles to the log (perpendicular), the same way as if you would cut to fell a tree. I then melted beeswax and poured it over the sawdust spawn that I had stuffed into the hole. Doing it that way I lost alot of wax that seeped out of the sides of the notches. I then realized if I cut the notches the other way (the same way as the log or grain) then I could much more cleanly insert the melted bees wax, it would fill the notch all the way and not seep out, Towards the end I did it that way and was much more happy how that came out. Sepp Holzers book said to seal notches in the log with duck tape, but mushroom mountain recommended wax. My sister gave me some bees wax from her bees (it still had a little honey in it) and I bought some kind of expensive block of bees wax from whole foods (that's the only wax they had). It seemed like bees wax is maybe more natural and bio degradable ..

 I also cut some oak trees so that the stump was 5 feet out of the ground and inserted spawn into the stump as I have heard that can be a good approach. I did one notch like the picture from above, but others I just cut some fairly wide notches that where angled down at a 45 degree angle and managed to get some wax in there using a spoon or I worked it with my fingers as it started to harden a bit. I realized some oak trees where growing in the open and not really shaded. This would seem to indicate those mushrooms would get more sun so I found an oak tree where the stump was in amongst alot of conifers and more shaded. I realized on the flip side since there was alot of shade that the stump would probably more likely die from lack of sun. I had thought part of the idea of this approach is that the stump would draw up nutrients and still be alive. Not sure if a kind of mix of sun and shade would be ideal or what for that and I surveyed my land for what kinds of oaks I had and how much shade there was around the stumps.

I  used about half of the sawdust spawn I had and may wait until April to use the rest unless I want to be gung ho on this and go nuts, but I am not sure if I should go slow with it because I am not sure the best approach and all .. but I think Sepp Holzer said spring is the best time to do the logs

 It was good for me to get outside and do some work because I had been sick after new years and lost my appetite from lack of exercise as it's hard to get motivated to get outside and do alot in the winter oftentimes. I was up at my camp for 3 days and cut alot of wood for mushrooms and also cleared some areas to create sun to grow blueberries, groundnuts and what not. I got plenty of exercise and fresh air for a change .. The day time temps where in the upper 20's/low 30's which was warmer than it's been lately and that was plenty tolerable for me cause I only have a small wood stove and limited insulation on my yurt. I think I like doing mushroom logs because it's something I can do in the winter or at least that is what I have been told is a suitable time to do the logs.

Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: Marinesg1012 on January 22, 2014, 08:58:37 AM
This is very interesting to me especially after reading about people using inoculate logs as edges in gardens. However it seems the logs need to be in the shade so I dont see how that would work in the garden, also what type of trees do you inoculate?

What are some good references to read for this type of thing?
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: PorcupineKate on January 22, 2014, 09:22:39 AM
I have 2 inoculated logs that I made at a workshop this summer.  I keep them leaning on the north side of my house.  They stay in the shade and I can easily keep an eye on them.


Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: surfivor on January 22, 2014, 11:04:12 AM
This is very interesting to me especially after reading about people using inoculate logs as edges in gardens. However it seems the logs need to be in the shade so I dont see how that would work in the garden, also what type of trees do you inoculate?

What are some good references to read for this type of thing?

 They are supposed to be 70% shade according to one source. I have not really found satisfactory sources of info for my purposes. The Paul Stamets stuff seems overly detailed in areas of creating spawn and all. I am not at that level or ready to try creating spawn. I get bits and pieces of info from various sources and try to piece it all together. Some of it is contradictory. Sepp Holzer recommends burying logs in the ground standing up so they get moisture that way, a local mushroom grower told me don't do that as I guess they think it means other types of fungi may get in the log. Many info sources often don't address certain questions I may wonder about.

 Jack apparently has been trying to find mushroom experts to get on the show, but I have not heard too much on this on itunes or anything.

Oak logs seem to be the best for shitake, but I heard they can grow on maple or other kinds of wood. I did mine on maple before and am now trying oak. I have some oak on my land, but tons of maple trees. I used poplar for oyster mushrooms but some people seem to say poplar is not that great a wood but other people seem to use poplar for those. I have only gotten a few very small crops of shitake and have not had any major production yet though I have been innoculating logs for a couple of years. Either it may take a while or I am not sure if I am not doing something wrong. Hopefully I may get some oyster mushrooms this coming year as I did those logs last spring, otherwise I will be disappointed because I thought maybe those are easier to do.

 I think you need some woods or some conifers around maybe to create some shade. I have 10 acres of mostly woods up in Maine with alot of conifers in different areas.

 Maine doesn't get as hot a summers as down where I live, but I am thinking maybe I need to harvest some rainwater off the yurt roof and fill some big bins so I can at least soak parts of the logs in the water. It can be challenging to get the whole log into one of those big plastic bins. I heard if you soak a log for more than 24 hours the mycelium would drown, unfortunately I read that after I had soaked a few logs for 2 days. That's perhaps another one of those things that most sources never mention about. I have a few logs I brought back to where I live in Mass and those are some of the ones I soaked.

Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: surfivor on February 02, 2014, 06:45:48 PM
 I just did a bunch of maple logs with shiitake mushroom sawdust spawn. I have more maple on my land than oak. I do have a fair amount of oak as well, but I am holding off on cutting that too fast ..

 I cut deep notches in the log going with the grain using two cuts of my chain saw right next to each other so it is like one notch. One cut is deeper than the other so it is kind of like a V shape. I decided to make the notch on the last log really deep. I put the sawdust spawn into the notch and then cover it with wax. Since the notch is very deep, there is alot of space above the spawn and wax. By keeping the log so that those notches are on the top, I am thinking that the notches will fill with water when it rains which was why I did it that way. That hopefully will help keep the logs watered. The down side could be exposure to other fungi because the notches have some bare wood exposed, but the ends of the log are open anyway. I am going to try more logs like that and will probably post some pictures later in the week ..


 I think I will try spawn from different suppliers. I had gotten this batch from mushroom mountain. I just ordered a 5 pound bag of shiitake spawn from mushroom people in Tennessee. It was $27 including shipping .. not bad. That should be enough to do alot of logs They are listed in the Paul Stamets book, I guess they have been around for awhile.

 I am also going to order 100 plugs of Maitake spawn. Maitake is supposed to be medicinal and is used by cancer patients.
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: PorcupineKate on February 02, 2014, 08:25:22 PM
When I was at Ben Falk's place we inoculated sugar maple logs. He has lots of maple and very little oak.  He is low grading his forest to get the logs for growing mushrooms.   He mentioned that red maple logs do not produce well and he doesn't use them.

He also use an angle grinder to drill the holes for the spawn.  It has more power and easily drilled hundreds of holes.   He prefers it over a drill/driver.
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: fruitsnutsandvegetables on February 04, 2014, 09:20:11 AM
Hello, my name is Matt. My wife and I have been commercially growing 16 different varieties of for a few years now. There are a lot of questions here, if I forget a few, feel free to ask.

There are a lot of benefits to inoculating logs in the winter. First of all, we all have better things to do when the weather warms up. Second, the sugar and moisture content is higher in the winter. This will help your mycelium colonize faster when the weather warms up. The bark on the trees is tighter due to the later forming layers being more dense and constriction. There is less chance that your log will be contaminated by competing fungus because there is little spore or mushroom activity this time of year.

Oak is a natural host for Shiitakes. While they will grow in nearly any hard wood, it's like "feeding your hunting dog vegetables." He will survive for awhile but won't reach his full potential.

Angle grinders are a great investment if you plan to do several logs. They operate at over 10,000 RPM versus a drill at just over 1,000. This will dramatically cut down your production time.

It is important to wax your inoculation sites to help keep moisture and other fungi out. We have used both bees and cheese wax. We found that cheese wax works much better because it doesn't crack or fall off like the bees wax does in the cold weather.

I would not recommend keeping pre-inoculated dowels or any culture for more than six months. It's like keeping seeds for a few years. Yes, some will germinate, but the germination rate drastically goes down the longer you wait.

Best Regards,
Matt
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: surfivor on February 05, 2014, 10:31:20 AM
 This is how I did some of my shiitake logs. The original idea came from Sepp Holzer, but the description in that book lacked details and said cover up the cut with duct tape. Others told me to use wax. The first time I had some bees wax. This seems like a cool use for wax if you have bees, although
Matt above recommends other types of wax. Bees wax is biodegradable and natural as well. my sister does bees and gave me some wax. I bought some more but it was expensive so I then got some parafin wax.


 Any comments greatly appreciated. I am pretty new at this.

 I did alot of logs against the grain and it was hard to get the wax to not drain out the sides of the cuts, I then got the idea to switch to with the grain as shown below ..

 First I cut one cut with a chain saw like this:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7452/12325802764_aa25a8a656_z.jpg)

Then I do a second cut right next to the first not as deep. This makes roughly a V shape ..

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7409/12325524153_6e4f78a699_z.jpg)


 you can get an idea of how large the cut is. I can get my finger into the top but not all the way to the bottom.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7300/12325375435_516ca59de7_z.jpg)


 Then I put the spawn in. This spawn does not have alot of visible white stuff, it does have some (I think that may be part of the mycelium). When I ordered some plugs from some other place last year it had alot of white stuff (maybe that spawn was more matured ?)

(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2808/12325379425_81e12a1c95_z.jpg)

pour in the wax

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3790/12325381295_afa7fb645a_z.jpg)


 when the wax gets jells up so it's not liquid but still soft, I shape it a little. Here I may need to add a touch more of wax.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7412/12325821864_9dc44bea3b_z.jpg)



 Then I got the idea of making a deep cut and leaving alot of space at the top. Here you can see the spawn is way down in the cut and there is wax on top of it but the wax is way down in the cut as well. The idea is by leaving this side up on the log in the spring, summer, or early fall, water should collect in the top of the notch and help keep the log moisture levels up. I would only have such a cut on one side of the log so in the winter I would face these cuts down because I think water would go into them and freeze and expand the wood potentially. If too much debris goes in there, I could put wire mesh over the cut to keep that out.


(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7421/12325386725_9a7b20d2e2_z.jpg)


 I am interested what people think of this approach if it may work ?

 The disadvantage might be there is more open wood exposed, but the ends of the log are exposed anyway. Sep Holzer says bury 1/3 of the log in the ground to keep them moist. That seems like it is going to expose the log to other fungi as well. I am also going to try that approach on some logs.

 I can soak some logs, but I am up at my camp only once in awhile and I will have to harvest rain water and find some kind of a large container. If I end up with alot of logs I will have limited ability to soak them all and I have to carry them pretty far or keep them closer to the road.

 I also started putting logs near the edges of swamps and spring streams because I figured there will be more moisture in those areas.

 Soaking a log in a muddy stream that drains out of a swamp seemed like an idea, but I think there could be other fungi in that kind of situation ..





Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: surfivor on February 05, 2014, 11:15:08 AM
regular cuts shown here (not the deep ones)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3791/12326446845_b6fbcd4770_z.jpg)



(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3698/12326608103_d2d8efef2d_z.jpg)


(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2887/12326689783_ac8a9afc08_z.jpg)

Another deep cut with spawn & wax shown here to (hopefully) collect some rain water into the log:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7415/12327064964_3dd3c91453_z.jpg)
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: fruitsnutsandvegetables on February 05, 2014, 08:39:57 PM
I wish  I could post pics like you!!! We grow 16 types and here is the website. http://www.fruitsnutsandvegetables.com/shop.html  DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM MY SITE. I am trying to work with the admin to offer a discount.
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: fruitsnutsandvegetables on February 06, 2014, 01:13:51 PM
I would recommend letting the season for a year, stacked in the shade to help conserve moisture. After you see mycelium growth on the ends of your logs bury them 1/4 to 1/3 horizontally not vertically in the ground. Once your log is fully colonized I wouldn't worry about using swamp water.
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: surfivor on February 06, 2014, 02:45:53 PM
I would recommend letting the season for a year, stacked in the shade to help conserve moisture. After you see mycelium growth on the ends of your logs bury them 1/4 to 1/3 horizontally not vertically in the ground. Once your log is fully colonized I wouldn't worry about using swamp water.

 bury them partially horizontally you are saying ? Where did you hear of doing it like that ?

 How much would you sell wax for on your site ? I saw that you are trying to do that ..
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: fruitsnutsandvegetables on February 07, 2014, 05:17:53 PM
I have a friend who has a PHD in Mycology, I have learned a large amount of my information from him. The rest has been from trial and error over the last several years. The horizontal method gives you the ability to make a mushroom bed similar to a garden bed. With our chicken pf the woods logs, we make the bed about 4' feet wide and about 20' long. Kind of a way to square foot garden mushrooms. I would only recommend using this method for large diameter logs, 8"-12". As far as wax goes I will get shipping quotes soon and update the website.
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: surfivor on February 08, 2014, 12:57:34 AM
I have a friend who has a PHD in Mycology, I have learned a large amount of my information from him. The rest has been from trial and error over the last several years. The horizontal method gives you the ability to make a mushroom bed similar to a garden bed. With our chicken pf the woods logs, we make the bed about 4' feet wide and about 20' long. Kind of a way to square foot garden mushrooms. I would only recommend using this method for large diameter logs, 8"-12". As far as wax goes I will get shipping quotes soon and update the website.

 You are saying basically to lay a large diameter log flat on the ground or bury it slightly. My land is so wet that just laying the log on the ground would cause a fair amount of moisture into the log.

 I think there is a school of thought that would say don't let the logs touch the ground because of contamination from other fungi. I told a woman about the Sep Holzer thing of burying a log standing up and she said not to do that. I basically try different things so maybe I might lay a few logs on the ground.

 Some papers say to bury the logs in sand. It occurred to me that they may be saying that because perhaps sand is cleaner of organic debris and perhaps less fungi. I am not really sure what is the actual risk of contamination in many cases ? I don't have much sand on my land, I have some clay and alot of black organic like soil.

 I also found that one supplier sends sawdust spawn  that appears to be freshly made. They told me that's how they do theirs and it means it will last much longer in the fridge which they told me 6 months to a year. When you look at the sawdust, you can hardly see any of the white mycelium stuff as I guess it has hardly started to grow. Then I ordered a different 5 pound bag from another supplier and the bag is chock full of white mycelium all over the place and even a few small mushrooms starting to grow. They say 3 months max  and once you open the bag you have to use it all up within 2 weeks from their instructions.

 I am glad I figured out to use sawdust spawn as drilling holes with a drill was very time consuming and the sawdust spawn seems cheaper as well.










Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: Mike Centex on April 17, 2014, 09:08:31 AM
Is there a maximum temperature that will kill or greatly limit shitake production in logs outdoors?  I've been reading but not found mention of this.  I've got an unlimited supply of oak logs and the family is on board with the small scale farming plan, but in 105+ degree Texas summer heat, I'm worried that even in the shade the logs would get too hot and kill the mycelium. 
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: surfivor on April 17, 2014, 01:17:00 PM

Try to find out if any one else is growing shiitake is in texas, maybe check with local suppliers.

This web site does indicate high tempratures can effect mycelium, and I have books that indicate similar

http://www.richters.com/show.cgi?page=InfoSheets/d8655.html

 "Shiitake mushroom mycelium will be killed at a temperature of about 100 degrees F (just above body temperature), so be careful during hot weather and do not place your plant in direct mid-day sun. Freezing temperature should not damage your shiitake plant unless it is very wet – such as when we ship it to you. If the block has lost a lot of moisture while it matures, it will likely be necessary to soak it."

shiitake here is grown indoors in texas:
http://www.greenling.com/r/hou/newsletters/06-14-2013/organic-mushrooms-from-texas-no-shiitake.htm

Try calling these suppliers and ask them:

https://www.texashighways.com/travel/item/1284-caps-off-to-texas-mushrooms

Commercial growers produce mushrooms at the following Texas locations: Kitchen Pride Mushroom Farms, Box 585, Gonzales 78629 (830/540-4516); Monterey Mushrooms, 5816 Hwy. 75 South, Madisonville 77864 (409/348-3511); and Vlasic Farms, Box 639, Hillsboro 76645.
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: Mike Centex on April 17, 2014, 03:59:56 PM
Thank you for the awesome response.  Great Shitake links!!

Explains why the major growers in the state grow indoors in sawdust or blocks.  I could build a mushroom barn with HVAC but that would be getting beyond small scale, at least financially. I've got a super huge hardwood forest and was trying to find crops that would prosper in the understory.  Everyone for miles around has clear cut the land for grazing and hay production. I'm trying to learn more about agroforestry and work with the land and not against it.
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: Pennridge on April 20, 2014, 11:10:30 PM
Very cool. I just bought some shiitake dowels and have innoculated a couple sugar maple logs.
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: surfivor on May 28, 2014, 07:40:58 AM
 I got some shiitakes on 3 older logs that I did 3 years ago or so. One is stuck in the ground and only got about 5 mushrooms right at ground level. This logs had mushrooms last year, but this year the crop looked better. I harvested 10 mushrooms and counted 25 tiny ones that are on the way. I soaked some of the logs in kind of some big muddy puddles and blocked of part of a stream to create a small pool but it was muddy kind of as well. Guitar pick and quarter shown here for scale, pic taken this past Saturday:

(https://www.anonimg.com/img/5bf0a2a97c8b9c38e40ec854ebb3dceb.jpg)

 The notches in the logs above (previous posts) also seem to be holding a little water when it rains so that may help going forward, but I may want to just innoculate logs in the spring as I am concerned that winter or fall innoculations may not have taken or might not be optimal despite being told otherwise
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: Cedar on May 28, 2014, 08:53:24 AM
Nice.. how did you cook them up?

Cedar
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: surfivor on May 28, 2014, 09:02:08 AM
Nice.. how did you cook them up?

Cedar

 I only have a stove top at my camp so they where fried in oil with onions. I gave two mushrooms to my neighbor and 5 or 6 to my mother. 5 or 6 mushrooms in a bag looks as if it must weigh a pound if it was a piece of fish, but I think it is lighter in weight.

 I had a bunch of doubts about being able to commercially grow mushrooms because the logs for the first 2.5 years didn't produce much, but I am feeling more optimistic again
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: surfivor on June 06, 2014, 12:46:59 PM

 recent pictures, I think there is at least 2 pounds of shiitake or more on two logs.

(https://www.anonimg.com/img/005a9085be5379ca5e5b7efcc7dac8f1.jpg)
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: surfivor on June 20, 2014, 08:03:40 AM

 Here is how we cooked some of these shiitake I grew on a canoe trip in a pan over an open fire:

 summer squash, zuccini, red onion, fresh garlic, lemon pepper, butter, shiitake, sea salt, dill weed ..

 The mushrooms in this dish that I grew tasted better than any mushrooms I have ever eaten and I was amazed !

 One website said to pick the mushrooms before the cap opens. I picked some like that a different time and my mother cooked them with veggies in shezwuan sauce. Either the sauce over powered the mushrooms in that case or I don't know, but my mother that case though they had little flavor, but they had excellent texture and I enjoyed them just the same.

Another website says to pick them just as the cap opens and that will be the best flavor so now I have tried to do that and I think the shrooms we cooked on the trip where picked late in that manner.
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: nkawtg on June 20, 2014, 08:56:37 AM
Here are some vids from a YouTube channel I subscribe to.
How to grow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YgZRGHTlJ8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YgZRGHTlJ8)
 
Update
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDUlJBZeW0E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDUlJBZeW0E)
 
Harvest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLWupLv7BCQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLWupLv7BCQ)
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: Cedar on June 20, 2014, 09:08:47 AM
Is there a maximum temperature that will kill or greatly limit shitake production in logs outdoors?  I've been reading but not found mention of this.  I've got an unlimited supply of oak logs and the family is on board with the small scale farming plan, but in 105+ degree Texas summer heat, I'm worried that even in the shade the logs would get too hot and kill the mycelium.

There are different strains. Too for warmer weather VS cooler weather states if I remember right.

Cedar
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: oktheniknow on June 20, 2014, 10:28:10 AM

"Soaking a log in a muddy stream that drains out of a swamp seemed like an idea, but I think there could be other fungi in that kind of situation."
That's what I'm going to try, and will start ones that are more likely to take hot weather. Am near a limestone riverbed with a spring. How has your experience been with the placement of these?
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: nkawtg on June 20, 2014, 10:44:00 AM
Don't forget to thump the log before the soak.
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: oktheniknow on June 20, 2014, 09:07:10 PM
Thump?

I cut a 3' tall hickory stump today. Thought about using it for oyster mushroom spawn down by the river. Have heard that oyster is more heat tolerant for our Texas summers.
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: Cedar on June 20, 2014, 09:16:02 PM
A tree/limb falls.. and it goes THUMP when it hits the ground. THUMPING your logs triggers the mycelium...

Cedar
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: surfivor on September 05, 2014, 01:28:56 AM
"Soaking a log in a muddy stream that drains out of a swamp seemed like an idea, but I think there could be other fungi in that kind of situation."
That's what I'm going to try, and will start ones that are more likely to take hot weather. Am near a limestone riverbed with a spring. How has your experience been with the placement of these?

 It occurs to me that Sepp Holzer advocates burrying logs standing up in dirt. If he can do that, I am not sure that soaking the logs would be such a problem in muddy water. On the other hand, some people don't advocate burying logs in the ground either. I have some sink holes and other depressions on my land where large pools of water form in the spring. I may try soaking logs in those, some of them are a little muddy or full of leaves and such.

 I am having this problem of some logs in certain areas where the bark starts to peel off. That seems to possibly be a sign that the log is drying out ? One spot is behind my shed where there is a lot of shade, but it's possible it may get a little sun there in mid summer for an hour or so in the afternoon. This  woman told me I could put burlap over the logs. I did do that for some of the time, but I took the burlap off to look at the logs and didn't put it back and despite that the bark still started to peel. This happened on some logs that had the notch in them to absorb water from rains. Clearly the notches did help get moisture into the logs when it rained, but I don't think it distributed throughout the log enough to prevent the bark from peeling. The bark is peeling on certain parts of the log and not others. Those logs are at my house in Mass. I have alot of logs in Maine and it seems cooler and more wet there and the logs don't seem to have so much of the peeling problem, but I still have logs up there that never produced anything, though I was encouraged that a few logs did produce mushrooms. I had a log that started to get some kind of black fungus, so I seperated it from the other logs. I had some oyster mushroom logs that had a white some other type of fungus on poplar and I threw those away from the pile. The oyster logs haven't produced either, except I did see one single tiny oyster mushroom last spring.

 The next time I do a bunch of logs, I am going to do it in the spring which Sepp Holzer said is the best time. I have been told that you can do logs in the winter and fall or anytime of year except mid summer, but I feel I should make a special attempt to do this in the spring.

 I also feel that if you end up with alot of logs in the long run, then soaking them all maybe too much work and I could only soak a few. Moving all these logs around can be alot of work and even cause back strain. I think moving a few is not a problem, but too many becomes impractical.
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: surfivor on August 01, 2016, 07:39:32 AM
I hadn't seen any mushrooms for awhile on these logs and it's been the driest hottest summer in New England that I can recall. There was some rain up in Maine a while back though where some of my logs are

 I was surprised that I had some shiitakes on these logs inoculated in April around 2011:

(https://www.anony.ws/image/NkAy)

(https://dropfile.to/SD9gsAM)


 Then I went back in the woods and found more flushes of shiitake such that I picked a big bag full. Alot where dried out or the cap had opened but I cooked some of the choicer ones and they where quite good. Only about 15% of my logs produced anything .. What surprised me the most though is you can see from the previous posts I inoculated most of these other logs in the middle of winter. I read in some books and other places since then that this was a bad idea so I was surprised I got anything at all. The ones that did best where in heavy shade in areas where there was fir and conifers. This at least makes me feel like I could inoculate in late March or very early April even though there may still be some freezing weather. I think I could leave some logs in the yurt inoculated in March and while it gets cold in there, it can heat up more in the day with the skylight and all

Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: surfivor on August 01, 2016, 07:43:47 AM
Image links not working ?

(https://www.anony.ws/image/NkAy)

(https://dropfile.to/SD9gsAM)
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: Cedar on August 01, 2016, 09:14:12 AM
Not working. If going to a place to soak the logs 24 hrs coming into Autumn, you ought to get a couple flushes. Remember however thick you log is, should equal how many years you will get out of it. Two inch log equals two years, six inch log equals six years.

Cedar
Title: Re: shitake logs plan of attack going forward
Post by: surfivor on August 01, 2016, 09:49:36 AM
Got the image to work ..
These where from the logs that where inoculated in April 2011 and where just fruiting this weekend except some of the mushrooms seemed to fruit and then dry out.

I got some bigger shiitake from other wood piles in the back of my 11 acres but I just figured out they where fruiting before I left and didn't have time to take a
picture. I had given up on them because I had read inoculating in the middle of the winter when there is 3 feet of snow is not a good idea but I didn't know that at the time. Despite that though, I did get some mushrooms

(https://anonmgur.com/up/c91c2872dc6d1cfa3a23374c0d004987.jpg)