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Survivalism & Self Sufficiency Topics => Outdoors Activities => Hunting => Topic started by: nelson96 on November 25, 2013, 10:17:44 AM

Title: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: nelson96 on November 25, 2013, 10:17:44 AM
Has anyone ever field dressed an animal without gutting it?  Fred Eichler does an exceptional job of showing how to do this.  He removes all four quarters, the backstrap, and loins without ever gutting the animal and does it in less than 10 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4kJIrW1IDM

I prefer skinning first and removing more meat, but if conditions require you to cut time and effort, he offers a clean example of how it can be done.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: endurance on November 25, 2013, 10:41:50 AM
Interesting.  I'm always interested in learning new techniques, especially faster ones when you get that animal just before sunset and you're three miles from the truck, it's Sunday evening and you have to work in the morning.

thanks
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: nelson96 on November 25, 2013, 11:07:23 AM
Pretty slick huh?  I also liked how he mentioned to be sure to leave something on one of the quarters for "proof of sex".  I wonder how many people realize you must do that?  I've never done it before last year, but when my daughters took their hunters safety course a guest speaker (State Game Worden) mentioned this.  I quized him after and he explained in better detail why it's required in our State unless your hunt is a hair tag.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: endurance on November 25, 2013, 11:09:32 AM
Pretty slick huh?  I also liked how he mentioned to be sure to leave something on one of the quarters for "proof of sex".  I wonder how many people realize you must do that?  I've never done it before last year, but when my daughters took their hunters safety course a guest speaker (State Game Worden) mentioned this.  I quized him after and he explained in better detail why it's required in our State unless your hunt is a hair tag.
Yep, I've always left the nipples attached to one hind quarter.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: nelson96 on November 25, 2013, 11:31:31 AM
Yep, I've always left the nipples attached to one hind quarter.

You must leave a testicle on a bull or buck too.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: ag2 on November 25, 2013, 12:22:40 PM
This is exactly what I did last year.  Shot a cow 30 minutes before sunset, thick in the oak brush about 2 miles from the trucks on the other side of a mountain.  I hated leaving the rib meat, but three of us managed to pack it out in a single trip.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: Cedar on November 25, 2013, 12:26:05 PM
I can see where this is good, for problems like CWD (don't get marrow/spinal fluid on the meat) and such, this is a GREAT way of not contaminating your meat. But I also see alot of wasted meat.

Cedar
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: endurance on November 25, 2013, 01:42:29 PM
You must leave a testicle on a bull or buck too.
I've never intentionally shot a buck or bull.  I'm a meat hunter.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: nelson96 on November 25, 2013, 02:09:18 PM
I've never intentionally shot a buck or bull.  I'm a meat hunter.

Me too, that's why I shoot a buck or bull (first one I see).
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: mchgnmike on November 28, 2013, 07:43:50 PM
That is the method I use when hunting hogs. This allows me to shoot more hogs instead of spending time cleaning hogs.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: Deping on February 05, 2014, 03:52:50 AM
People should calm down ! It's called the circle of life. You all enjoy eating out, enjoying BBQ . So before that meat hits the grill for you , this is the exact process that it had to go through. If you don't like it then please don't watch nor comment. Just don't be a hypocrite and make a comment then go eat a steak for dinner. ?
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: theBINKYhunter on February 05, 2014, 05:58:17 AM
my friend does this, he's says it's a lot quicker and easier. he usually does it up in MI on his dad's farm. i asked him about the remains, he said there are so many wolfs/coyotes (can't remember, probably both) that they devour the meat before the next day, so really there is nothing left.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: nelson96 on February 05, 2014, 07:17:07 AM
People should calm down !

Who ya talking to?  Everyone that's commented on this thread are meat eaters and I think all of us have killed our own meat too.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: theBINKYhunter on February 05, 2014, 07:50:52 AM
Who ya talking to?  Everyone that's commented on this thread are meat eaters and I think all of us have killed our own meat too.

not me, i have never gone hunting, it's on my long list of things to do/learn. i really really really want to hunt, but don't know anyone who i can go with. :( a good bolt gun is on my short list, then a hunter safety course, then hopefully i can tag along on some hunts to get a feel for it, then go on my own... that's my rough plan, at least.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: livinitup0 on February 05, 2014, 01:16:57 PM
not me, i have never gone hunting, it's on my long list of things to do/learn. i really really really want to hunt, but don't know anyone who i can go with. :( a good bolt gun is on my short list, then a hunter safety course, then hopefully i can tag along on some hunts to get a feel for it, then go on my own... that's my rough plan, at least.

i was in the the same boat... recently met my fiancee's cousin who hunts every year on his own land... to say I was stoked is an understatement....then when he IM'd me on facebook asking if I wanted to talk about preparedness because he saw that I was a fan of a bunch of prepping pages (apparently he is also a prepper) I was ecstatic.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: Virginian on February 05, 2014, 02:05:18 PM
Who ya talking to?  Everyone that's commented on this thread are meat eaters and I think all of us have killed our own meat too.

I think the poster was referring to some of the YouTube comments,
But either way LONG LIVE THE CARNIVORES
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: GotCox on September 19, 2014, 05:31:52 PM
But I also see alot of wasted meat.

Cedar

Could not agree more. I was taught to use everything from the animals you kill. It is illegal in Oregon state to waste meat and that includes leaving the rib cage. I believe all processing of the animal, after gutting it needs to be done in a clean place, not in the woods. We have had to quarter elk to pack them out of area's and it ends up so much more of a mess. Not to mention making more surface area for dirt, bacteria and other crap to get to your meat.

For those who say, but i don't have time it is late in the day and need to go. Learn to make drag poles. The Native Indians used the technique and it works great for being able to move heavy loads and do so very quickly compared to other options. I have used them to drag a large buck a mile through the woods back to the truck. And there was no way i could have packed him on my back he was to big.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: nelson96 on September 19, 2014, 05:52:03 PM
Could not agree more. I was taught to use everything from the animals you kill. It is illegal in Oregon state to waste meat and that includes leaving the rib cage.

I too agree with taking every ounce of meat you can, and that's certainly what I do.  That said, it's not illegal to leave the rib cage meat in Oregon.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: GotCox on September 19, 2014, 05:53:47 PM
I too agree with taking every ounce of meat you can, and that's certainly what I do.  That said, it's not illegal to leave the rib cage meat in Oregon.

Yes it is. Look up the laws. It was put into effect in the last two years. They can site you for waste of game for leaving the rib cage in field.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: nelson96 on September 19, 2014, 06:02:31 PM
Yes it is. Look up the laws. It was put into effect in the last two years. They can site you for waste of game for leaving the rib cage in field.

Would love to see the statute on that, couldn't find it myself.  I've got a buddy that is a State Game Worden down in Roseburg, I'll see if I can get a hold of him.  I'll let you know what I find out.

UPDATE:
I'm not busting your balls or trying to be argumenttitive, I am just curious myself.

He texted me back. . . .  he siad that the Big Game Regulations state; No Person Shall:  Waste any game mammals or parts thereof (that's all it says) and that hasn't changed for years.  There is no new law that he is aware of nor has he ever heard of anyone ever being written up for wasteing something like ribcage meat, unless they were already being written up for something much more serious.  He said he would never write anyone up for that (that alone). 

I also sent the ODFW an email to see what they say, just for curiosity.

.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: trekker111 on September 19, 2014, 07:51:23 PM
We have a similar law here in SC, I have even written that ticket before. Not for a rib cage, this guy actually shot 2 deer, cut the antlers off the buck, split the hide down the back and cut out the back straps of both deer, and left the rest. I ticketed the hell out of him.

Don't think I would do it for just the rib cage.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: nelson96 on September 19, 2014, 07:58:01 PM
We have a similar law here in SC, I have even written that ticket before. Not for a rib cage, this guy actually shot 2 deer, cut the antlers off the buck, split the hide down the back and cut out the back straps of both deer, and left the rest. I ticketed the hell out of him.

Don't think I would do it for just the rib cage.

The guy should get more than a ticket for that. . .  Lose the ability to get a hunting license for a period of time?

I'll admit, I've left the ribcage meat before, but it's a rare thing.  When packs are heavy, the pack is long, and the weather foul, I'll leave something like the ribcage meat.  Nothing at all wronf with that in my opinion.  Many people don't even use it.  If it weren't for the fact that I can my scrap meat like that, I wouldn't use it.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: GotCox on September 19, 2014, 11:01:42 PM
No Person Shall:  Waste any game mammals or parts thereof

That is it. What else do you think it needs to say? Parts thereof refers to the waste of any part thereof. Not all game cops will bust your balls for stuff, but it is in the law and is enforceable as written. From what i heard the poaching and waste of meat is making sportsman look bad so the rangers have been told to start enforcing this more.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: trekker111 on September 20, 2014, 03:09:43 AM
The guy should get more than a ticket for that. . .  Lose the ability to get a hunting license for a period of time?

In SC, having your hunting license suspended works on a points system, just like a drivers license. Certain violations get a certain amount of points against your license, and every year with no points reduces the number of points against your license. Some things, like hunting deer out of season gets you enough points to suspend all by themselves. Some, like poaching bear, enough to suspend for more than a year. Most violations however to not get enough points to suspend by themselves. Since I'm not a game warden, I don't have easy access to see if my ticket was enough to suspend it or not. I didn't find any other violations, but again, not a game warden, so I may have missed something.

I wouldn't expect a game warden to be as adept at finding traffic violations as I am either. On the rare occasion I do write fish and game violations, it is usually cause I found something and there isn't a warden available to respond. I'm not out searching for them, there just happens to be about 200 square miles of state and federal land in our county, and it's perforated with private land with houses, so we can't help but drive through it. We have 3 game wardens responsible for our county, who by policy aren't supposed to be in the woods alone (they do) and one us forest service ranger for 3 counties, so we spend a fair amount of time backing them up. If I remember right there is something like 250 miles of forest service roads in our county, so we are pretty rural for being east of the Mississippi.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: endurance on September 20, 2014, 05:32:23 AM
The antelope and deer I've hunted have never had a meaningful amount of rib cage meat. Elk might be another story.  For deer, even processing at home I've never found enough meat to make it worth the time (30 minutes or more for maybe a half pound or less of hamburger).
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: nelson96 on September 20, 2014, 07:59:26 AM
That is it. What else do you think it needs to say? Parts thereof refers to the waste of any part thereof. Not all game cops will bust your balls for stuff, but it is in the law and is enforceable as written. From what i heard the poaching and waste of meat is making sportsman look bad so the rangers have been told to start enforcing this more.

There are problems in your argument. . . .  Most "game cops" are hunters themselves and realize that, like endurance mentioned, there is very little meat in the ribs and the meat that it offers is of poor quality.  The fact that the cops are hunters too leaves them open for scrutiny but more importantly, they realize this is not a worthy cause to enforce.  I suggest that you start asking them when you see them on patrol during season.  I love to invite them in to camp and ask questions, they've got great stories too. 

I'll bet the average hunter leaves behind far more and better quality meat left elsewhere on a carcass, than on the ribcage.  Who are we to determine what another should not only take, but to use, as long as what he takes is reasonable?   

I'll add that poaching and waste of meat has never made "sportsman" look bad in the eyes of other sportsman and law enforcement, but makes "poachers" look bad.  They've always been out there and it's no worse today than it has ever been.  The Oregon regulation as it is written is no different than it has been for a very long time and I personally have not a worry in the world that I would get written up for leaving a ribcage in the woods.  If it makes you more comfortable to worry about such things, you have that right.  Just don't let any of this keep you from having fun in the woods and putting meat on your table.  Good luck friend.

.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: nelson96 on September 20, 2014, 08:11:43 AM
In SC, having your hunting license suspended works on a points system, just like a drivers license. Certain violations get a certain amount of points against your license, and every year with no points reduces the number of points against your license.

I like that policy.  Never heard of that one before, but I'm not the kind of guy that has to look over his shoulder either.  I know most of the regulations, but know how enforcement works.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: nelson96 on September 20, 2014, 02:13:24 PM
Im curious, I've never field dressed an animal using the guttless method in the OP, but with recent discussion about it contributing to the waste of meat, how many don't take organs?

It was brought up that leaving the ribcage is "want & waste" and may even be considered in some States a ticketable offense.  I'm on the fence about it being waste, only because I normally take it with me (but not always) and have no problem with others who don't (there's not much meat there).  I also disagree that an honest hunter would ever need to worry about being ticketed for it.  With that in mind, there is much more good usable meat in the organs (liver and heart especially) that most (whom I know) always make a habit in leaving behind.  I would think that if there was ever a thought that you would be ticketed for leaving a ribcage, you would certainly get ticketed for leaving the liver and heart.

Personally, I think the heart is BY FAR the best meat on any game species.  What say you?

.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: endurance on September 20, 2014, 04:41:16 PM
I've never done the gutless method either and because my dogs love liver and I like the heart, I'll probably continue to do a full gutting.  That said, if it's 6:30pm on Sunday, I have to work on Monday or it's starting to snow and I'm three miles from the truck, I'd seriously consider it.  I carry four 4 gallon ziplocks just in case the need ever arises.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: nelson96 on September 20, 2014, 07:05:41 PM
I've never done the gutless method either and because my dogs love liver and I like the heart, I'll probably continue to do a full gutting.  That said, if it's 6:30pm on Sunday, I have to work on Monday or it's starting to snow and I'm three miles from the truck, I'd seriously consider it.  I carry four 4 gallon ziplocks just in case the need ever arises.

Ziplocks  ???  How well does that work?  Why not cotton canvas quarter bags?
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: endurance on September 20, 2014, 09:02:41 PM
It works great on smaller animals and organs and then I can put everything in my pack without making a mess.  Keeps everything squeeky clean.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: GotCox on September 20, 2014, 11:59:29 PM
Im curious, I've never field dressed an animal using the guttless method in the OP, but with recent discussion about it contributing to the waste of meat, how many don't take organs?

It was brought up that leaving the ribcage is "want & waste" and may even be considered in some States a ticketable offense.  I'm on the fence about it being waste, only because I normally take it with me (but not always) and have no problem with others who don't (there's not much meat there).  I also disagree that an honest hunter would ever need to worry about being ticketed for it.  With that in mind, there is much more good usable meat in the organs (liver and heart especially) that most (whom I know) always make a habit in leaving behind.  I would think that if there was ever a thought that you would be ticketed for leaving a ribcage, you would certainly get ticketed for leaving the liver and heart.

Personally, I think the heart is BY FAR the best meat on any game species.  What say you?

.

My thoughts are more traditional than most, but i was taught to use as much of an animal as you can. Rocky mountain oysters, heart and liver are all great when cooked right. The gall bladder is valuable to people who make home medicines, dogs and pigs love grissell and bones, hides make good leather or rugs (depending on the animal), heck you can even learn to make great wood glue from the hooves of deer and elk. If you do any crawdad (crayfish) fishing even the stomach and intestines can be saved for bait.

I have seen other people who fancy them selves sportsmen end up with 100 pounds of meat off of a 500 pound elk and everything else is thrown away and goes to waste. If you don't like heart i will bet you can find someone who does, if you don't know how to tan a hide i bet someone around you would love to have yours to tan. Do i support a government who makes laws to tell you how to do your thing as a sportsman? Hell no. I wish they stayed out of it completely, but i do wish everyone would learn to be less wasteful and get more from the animals they take.

Here is a great read on what i feel is a good job of processing. It shows the tenderloin that you would not want to leave or miss, and the gutless method would leave to rot.
http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56251&highlight=Ron+Kulas
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: nelson96 on September 21, 2014, 12:00:01 AM
It works great on smaller animals and organs and then I can put everything in my pack without making a mess.  Keeps everything squeeky clean.

Ah. . . .  So you're not hauling quaters that way.  I pack gallon ziplocks for that reason.  I don't mind asking people for their organs when I walk up on a kill and see the heart in the gut pile.  ;D
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: nelson96 on September 21, 2014, 12:11:49 AM
I wish they stayed out of it completely, but i do wish everyone would learn to be less wasteful and get more from the animals they take.

Sure, but it's an individual sport with perks (meat) and if a person doesn't use ALL that stuff you listed or know someone who does, I for one am sure as H double hockey sticks not packing it. . . .  I'm happy you do, that's great.  It would be better if more did use all that stuff, but I won't put that on them as a responsibility.  The reason we got on the subject of wasted meat was over the ribcage, not much lost there.

Thankfully it's a rare thing for me to find carcasses with much meat left on them.  I do see more and more whole animals dead where the person couldn't find them though and the entire animal went to waste.  >:(

.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: trekker111 on September 21, 2014, 11:46:51 AM
I hate liver, no one in my family will eat it, therefore, it goes with the rest of the guts. The whole family loves heart, which is why I usually hold a little high on lung shots. Get the arteries, leave the heart intact.

Somewhere a line has to be drawn, the kidneys are edible, intestines for sausage casings, or a bow string, or cordage. Sinew for cordage. If cwd isn't a concern the brain is edible, or can be used to tan the hide. Bones for stock. I could go on, but I think the point has been made.

To get fined for waste of game, requires both an officer to write the ticket, a judge to agree, and if it comes to it, a jury to unanimously agree.

Just the rib cage doesn't have much meat, especially if a good job was done when removing the front legs. The neck has a decent amount of meat. The loins on the underside of the spine, near the pelvis, is some of the best meat on a deer/elk/pig. I see no easy way to get it with a gutles method.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: nelson96 on September 21, 2014, 12:19:17 PM
The loins on the underside of the spine, near the pelvis, is some of the best meat on a deer/elk/pig. I see no easy way to get it with a gutles method.

To be clear, I'm not advocating the guttless method, but did think it was pretty cool, not having seen it done before.  As I remember, the video showed him removing the loins.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: nelson96 on September 23, 2014, 06:39:11 PM
UPDATE:
I heard back from the ODFW and this is what they said. . . .

Quote
Waste is defined on page 82 of the Big Game Regulations.

“Waste” means to allow any edible
portion of any game mammal (except
cougar) or game bird to be rendered
unfit for human consumption, or, to fail
to retrieve edible portions except internal
organs of such game mammals or game
birds from the field. Entrails, including the
heart and liver, are not considered edible.

While the “waste” regulations for game mammals have not been changed recently, it is true that a hunter could be cited for waste of a game animal if they left the meat on the rib cage.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: DDJ on November 02, 2015, 11:11:10 AM
The rules in Ohio used to be that the only thing you were allowed to remove before the final tag was attached to the harvest was the entrails (field dress).  The final tag was applied at a check in station.  They had to see the whole head and all of the carcass.  With the new call in/web check in I am not sure if those rules changed.  I still practice that method.  However we are dealing with Whitetail that top out (a monster) at 200Lbs dressed and never too far from a road it may not be where you parked but never more than a mile from a road at least anywhere I have hunted in Ohio.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: armymars on November 02, 2015, 01:07:23 PM
  GotCox talked about the poles. A friend of mine showed me another trick. When I got my last dear on his farm, we used one of the cheap plastic sleds that look like a tobagon. Even with no snow it worked.
Title: Re: Gutless Field Dressing
Post by: SelfSufficientPath on November 18, 2015, 02:06:20 PM
I can see the advantages.  That said, it looks to me like you would be leaving a lot of meat.  The neck roast comes to mind, as well as a decent amount of grind meat.  I guess for me it would depend on a number of things; how cold is it, how big is the animal, how far am I from the vehicle/house, etc.  Still a good method to keep in mind for the right situation.