The Survival Podcast Forum

Energy Options => Other Energy Sources => Topic started by: MillenniumMan on January 07, 2014, 02:16:56 PM

Title: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: MillenniumMan on January 07, 2014, 02:16:56 PM
A couple months back, Steve said that he was putting some new batteries through their paces that could outdo the Eneloop.

I was wondering if there are results back from that battery of tests (no pun intended) and which ones came out on top?

Thank you.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: ID_Joker on January 07, 2014, 02:24:00 PM
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: infosec on January 07, 2014, 02:25:20 PM
I recall Mr. Harris mentioning something about "Bad bunny" and I have avoided Energizers since.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: theBINKYhunter on January 07, 2014, 03:14:50 PM
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: MillenniumMan on January 07, 2014, 05:02:34 PM
You're right, I think it was Eneloop vs Rayovac and not energizer.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: oley454 on January 07, 2014, 07:06:47 PM
My experience is that energizer are junk.  I bought AA, C, and 9v.  None of them hold a charge worth a damn.  I can't speak on eneloops but they are next months "prep" buy.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: skas on January 07, 2014, 07:13:45 PM
Having used Energizers and Eneloops...go Eneloop, for sure.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: Denver Terry on January 07, 2014, 07:27:19 PM
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: theBINKYhunter on January 07, 2014, 07:44:33 PM
i personally have enloops and they are rock solid. i need to get some of the C and D adapters for them.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: ID_Joker on January 07, 2014, 07:57:02 PM
If I recall correctly, while Steve liked the Eneloops for AA and AAA, he was down on the adapters.  Just not enough juice there to last very long.  I don't recall what he recommended though.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: AvenueQ on January 08, 2014, 08:49:57 AM
Having used Energizers and Eneloops...go Eneloop, for sure.

Seconding this. My Eneloops last noticeably longer than my Energizers. I'll be replacing them all with Eneloops soon.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: theBINKYhunter on January 08, 2014, 09:25:54 AM
If I recall correctly, while Steve liked the Eneloops for AA and AAA, he was down on the adapters.  Just not enough juice there to last very long.  I don't recall what he recommended though.

that was my thought, you have the size of the C and D, but not the power... i though enloop made C and D sizes, but i guess it's just the adapter.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: Zef_66 on January 08, 2014, 10:19:59 AM
I'm in to see the response on anything better.

I've been using Eneloop AA (http://amzn.to/19kwatT) and AAA (http://amzn.to/104EniZ) for years now without any issues.

I was in the market for some Cs and Ds for kids toys and soothers and such. And I knew the adaptors that would allow the use of AAs in place of Cs just wouldn't last long. The capacity just isn't there. So after some research, I picked up some Tenergy Centura Low Self-Discharge size C (http://amzn.to/121ZLWN) and size D (http://amzn.to/19kw4Cl) batteries. They work great and I don't have any complaints at all. No issues whatsoever. They are highly recommended. I probably have about 10 each of the Cs and Ds that I use and rotate through toys and such. Highly recommended.

After I had such good luck with the Tenergy Centura Cs and Ds, I thought I would try out their AA (http://amzn.to/KEdTkp) and AAA (http://amzn.to/1eHr1On). I am no expert and don't have any official tests, but they work *almost* as well as the Eneloops. But then again, they are not quite as expensive. What I do is the good stuff that I want to last awhile, like my digital cameras and flashlights, I use the Eneloops. For the kids toys and remotes and stuff, I use the Tenergy.

This is just my opinion, but I hope that helps!
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: ID_Joker on January 08, 2014, 10:31:48 AM
Tenergy rings a bell.  I think those might be the ones Steve recommended.  That was a while ago though...could be something new since.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: MillenniumMan on January 10, 2014, 03:24:01 PM
Just did a price comparison and Tenergy is $10 less for a 4 pack of AA. The two at an equivalent power output level are neck and neck.

Time for me to battery shop.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: Carl on August 21, 2014, 12:32:45 PM
I use Tenergy and ENELOOP Aa and AAA cells , after 4 years I have had some failures in Tenergy,NO failures with ENELOOP cells...BUT SANYO sold ENELOOP to PANASONIC and and The 2100 cycle cells appear fine BUT the 2500 rated cells appear to have a problem..

Any others note the change lately?
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: NWPilgrim on August 21, 2014, 02:47:32 PM
Just swapped out two AA in my mouse yesterday.  I had a rack of Eneloop and Energizer AA batteries that were all recharged at the same time together about 6 weeks ago.  the Energizers were dead already, would not even power a mouse.  The Eneloop AA batts were good to go.  I knew from prior experience they were much better but this is pitiful for Energizer.  I just tossed all those as worthless.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: Carl on August 21, 2014, 03:15:32 PM
Just swapped out two AA in my mouse yesterday.  I had a rack of Eneloop and Energizer AA batteries that were all recharged at the same time together about 6 weeks ago.  the Energizers were dead already, would not even power a mouse.  The Eneloop AA batts were good to go.  I knew from prior experience they were much better but this is pitiful for Energizer.  I just tossed all those as worthless.

I gave all of my non-ENELOOP cells to my brother...made TWO people happy at one move.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: ridge rover on May 25, 2017, 06:43:13 PM
I can't seem to get that last short video Harris made. He showed some different AAs he was researching. He said they looked better than Eneloops so far, but was still testing. Can anyone recall which batteries they were?

My link to that video doesn't seem to work anymore.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: Carl on May 26, 2017, 05:16:02 AM
  My choice is ENELOOP,the only failure I have seen was when a charger failed and cooked a set of 4 AA cells till they leaked.
The 2000 MAH ones tend to perform better than the higher rated 2550 and 2850 ect ENELOOP as they don't produce power for higher Current devices (1/2 amp or more) as well or as long as the 2000 MAH versions. The higher rater cells may be just fine for devices that use little power but I try to simplify for my use and the 2000 MAH ENELOOP does just fine.

  I do like the TENERGY 9 volt,C and D cells and am tempted to try TENERGY Low Self Discharge cells ,but with no failures of my ENELOOP AA and AAA cells I hav not felt the need ...as of yet.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: Greekman on May 30, 2017, 03:56:06 PM
I can't seem to get that last short video Harris made. He showed some different AAs he was researching. He said they looked better than Eneloops so far, but was still testing. Can anyone recall which batteries they were?

My link to that video doesn't seem to work anymore.

let me have a look in the big flashlight forum for any new additions. But for now nothing bests eneloop. Duracell has LSD but it seems they are suspiciously similar to Eneloops in make, same for other makers....
Early in the game Uniross Hybrios were a little bit notch better, but that stands to reason since Eneloop bought the technology from them.
My bet is that Harris did not find any better, else he woudl have spoken.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: supertrout5000 on June 11, 2017, 07:12:38 PM
If price is a factor, my local Best Buy had kits with 8 AA and 4 AAA Eneloop plus charger on sale for $20. I bought them all, but hopefully the stores near you may have some.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: Ralph on November 08, 2019, 11:03:30 AM
This thread hasn't been active in a while.  I recently bought some AAs to compare.  I bought 4 new Eneloop gen 4s, 4 Amazon Basics, and 4 Energizers.  I also have some not too old EBLs I will add to the testing.  I am still in the process of testing so no definite conclusions so far.  Right now I am running the cells through a couple conditioning cycles.  With a constant 1 amp load the Eneloops showed the lowest capacity, excluding the EBLs which I haven't got to yet.  I suspect the EBLs will test lowest from previous tests.  Once I get everything reconditioned I can draw some real conclusions.

I still like Eneloops but can't help being curious about other brands.  I really didn't need to buy more cells since most of them sit around waiting for their turn to be used.  One interesting thing which confirmed a long suspicion of mine was reading Eneloop's own writeups on their batteries.  They briefly mention 'memory' of NiMH batteries.  They did not say there was none, but rather that their battery had a higher voltage output which compensated for it. They also mention how crystals form in the cell causing the effect.  So, perhaps that is part of the reason my tester is spending hours reconditioning all the batteries I want to test.  I can see on the graphs how the capacity goes up after a couple cycles, in some cases by quite a bit.  I'll try to post the graphs once the real tests get done. 
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: Ralph on November 27, 2019, 10:52:15 AM
I got through some tests comparing Eneloop, Energizer, Amazon Basics, and EBL cells.  The results were confusing, cells of the same type varied quite a bit, and similar results between tests.  I used the same charger at 500mA.  While all the cells have been through a number of cycles, maybe they need a few more to stabilize.  I did not have my CBA when I first starting using Eneloops so I dont have anything to compare with.  I did my best to treat all the cells the same way to eliminate that variable.

One thing which did seem to come out of the tests, but under suspicion pending further tests is that with a 1 amp discharge Energizer and Amazon cells had a higher capacity than Eneloops.  Of EBL 2300 and 2800 cells, the two test quite close.  At 1 and 2 amps none of the cells measured at the manufacturer's rating.

I was hoping to see some pattern out of the tests but that didn't quite happen.  Since a few different brands of new cells seem to have the same 'breaking in' issue my guess is it must be something common to NM cells.

For now I am going to start using the test cells in flashlights so they get some real world use and revisit the tests after that.  Since older cells test consistently my best guess is that it takes more cycles than I thought for a new cell to become 'conditioned'.  If anyone has any ideas or information about new cells I would like to hear it- or suggestions on a test to run. 
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: FreeLancer on November 27, 2019, 11:43:38 AM
What are you using to hold the cell and make contact with the test leads?  I’ve had a lot of spurious results from flakey contacts when running tests with my CBA. 
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: Greekman on November 29, 2019, 12:59:56 AM
ralph, the 1&2 Amp discharge seems a bit too much to me....
Did you check the datasheets for what the manufacturers use?
(many times the stated capacity is of a lower discharge rate)
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: Ralph on December 04, 2019, 10:34:56 AM
I am using magnets to make battery connection.  They work well except when I accidentally bump them.  The discharge rates I have been using are high, in part to keep the test times down so I can get through a test and not leave the dead cell connected to the CBA for hours until I get back to it.  I did run a power profile test out of curiosity and all the cells pretty much give out by about 3 amps load, so 2 amps is pushing them.  The CBA set for a NMH battery of 2AH suggests a load of 2 amps. 

I didn't check, but have no doubt the manufacturer's test load is much lower, 0.1C if I had to guess.  I am still curious enough that I'll run some tests at 500mA.  That should run about 4 hours per cell so it'll take a while.  I'll probably run one cell of each type to see how they compare. 
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: FreeLancer on December 04, 2019, 06:54:14 PM
I eventually tried clamping over the top of my magnetic contacts and the extra pressure made a noticeable difference in my case, especially in high draw situations.  I eventually modified a woodworking clamp with heavy copper contacts and 10 gauge leads, basically the same thing WMR sells, and my results got more consistent.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: Ralph on December 11, 2019, 11:05:50 AM
I do have a clamp style connector but kind of moved away from it because unless the battery was very well aligned the cell would go flying across the room.  The clamp is too tight, at least on the one I have.  I'll have to try playing around some more.  I did upgrade to stronger magnets some time back which was an improvement over the first magnets I used. 

I did manage to run a series of tests at 500mA on 1 cell of each type.  I'll probably add a second cell of each type to the tests to verify the one cell I used wasn't a non-typical one, but looking at the numbers I don't think that is the case.  The results so far are interesting:

Amazon Basic:  2.16AH
EBL 2800:        2.12AH
EBL 2300:        2.04AH
Energizer:        1.8AH
Eneloop Gen4:  1.73AH

Capacity wise Amazon Basic and both EBL cells are almost the same.  The biggest surprise is the EBLs where their 2800mAH and 2300AH tested virtually the same.  Maybe at lower discharge rates the difference will be greater.  The Energizer and gen4 Eneloops were pretty close, but from the manufacturer's data the Eneloops have a longer charge retention.  In my opinion based on the 500mA test, unless every bit of capacity is important and the battery will be cycled fairly often and cycle life is not an issue Eneloop is the way to go.  I should add a Duracell AA to the test since at 500mA load they seemed to have about the capacity of an Eneloop- one time!

On a similar note, I have tested a number of EBL Li ion cells in the past.  Their 18650s do not come close to their rating and the length of the cell is shorter than an unprotected 18650 even though they claim the cell is protected.  Oddly, their 26650 rated at 5000mAH tested right about 5000mAH.  I don't have any other 26650s to compare with.  I have 2 cheap ~$20 flashlights that can use a 26650 and their run times are pretty long, up to 12 hours on low which is still pretty bright with a nice white light.  I keep one of those in the car with some other lights.  Of the 2 lights I like the Gear Light best.  It has a nice range of variable focus, can use a 26650, 18650, or 3 AAs- adapters included.  I like that it uses 3AAs instead of AAAs.  The 3 brightness levels pull 1.6A, 0.78A, and 0.4A.  3 brightness levels, strobe, and SOS modes.  If anyone is thinking of playing with 26650s the Gear Light may be a good cheap way to do it- I like it.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: FreeLancer on February 03, 2020, 11:39:37 AM
Any data on the black Eneloop Pros?  Looks like they advertise a lower rate of self discharge at the expense of much lower charge cycles.  Is there any real world capacity increase to make up for the shorter life span?
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: creuzerm on February 03, 2020, 03:44:13 PM
I haven't tried any of the eneloop batteries yet.  Lower Self Discharge means much better installing the batteries and forgetting about them for a year or two. Lanterns, secondary flashlights, etc. I'd stay clear of using these in your primary flashlight, etc because you could have too many charge cycles and hit your shorter lifespan.

-----

I broke down and bought a Golisi S4 Charger which measures charge mAh. It has a 12v in so I can charge off my car, or as I am currently the Solar for home home office. I also built an arduino discharge tester. Calibrated as best as I can with my cheap harbor freight meter. They correlate well to each other. I got/built these for Lithium batteries because so many listings on amazon are capacity lies.

They both work with AA & AAA batteries.  So I started taking notes. A charge/recorded discharge/recorded charge cycle on the batteries with the actual mAH written down in sharpie on the batteries along with the year/month I put them in service has been helpful. It helps me 'match' cells because they can be wildly different from the same package.

I have found that the Ikea rechargeable consistently exceeded their labeling by about 10% and that the package said Made in Japan with my understanding a few years ago that the only NmH battery plant in Japan was the one that eneloop came off of, so they are white-label (literally!) eneloops.

I have a Duracell sitting here next to me, the freshly charged mate to the one in my mouse currently that is labeled at 2028mah recorded vs the 2000mah labeled. It's now 12 years old, tested maybe 8-10 years into it's life. Not too many cycles on it, likely only many dozens. I should re-test it again to see how it's holding up to it's life.


It's a bit of money to get a good charger with a charge mAh display, but I am SO HAPPY I did. It allows me to spot junk batteries and chuck them vs keeping them in circulation and dragging good cells down with them. A good charger makes a discharge tester unnecessary.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: Adam Campbell on March 12, 2020, 11:59:34 AM
I have to use Eneloop Pro batteries for one of my DSLR cameras because standard NiMH batteries immediately discharge within less than a minute if I put them in this camera. The Eneloop Pro are the only ones I found that can actually power the camera.

I heard that IKEA's LADDA batteries are the exact same battery, so the last time I was there I picked up several packs. They are cheaper than regular rechargeables at other stores, so I am not worried about it if they don’t perform. I haven’t had the opportunity to use them yet, but I’ll post my experience with them after I’ve had a chance to properly put them through the paces.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: cmxterra on March 12, 2020, 05:26:45 PM
I have been using the Enloop batteries in my photography business for years and stand by them. They rock.  I use them in both my cameras and flashes and get long use from them. I have been in the photo business for damn near 30 years and these are the best rechargable batteries I have ever used.
 

Period.
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: Ralph on April 22, 2020, 09:43:11 AM
I still trust AA Eneloops.  I've yet to have one go bad except for the old XX hi capacity ones I bought some time ago.  The XXs I had (possibly counterfeit but long gone so I can't confirm) were incapable of supplying any significant current out of the package- and I mean hundreds of milliamps.  Out of curiosity I've tried Energizer, EBL, and Amazon basics.  None of those three compare to Eneloops as far as number of cycles or charge retention in storage.  The EBL and Amazon basics tested on a CBA performed virtually identical making me strongly suspect the Amazons are made by EBL.  Both also have somewhat higher capacity than Eneloops.

Due to their higher capacity, lower storage time, and fewer cycle life I use the Amazon, EBL, and Energizera in things having more use where the lower storage life wouldn't be an issue.  Eneloops are for things where I want reliability and long storage such as flashlights.  I only have 4 cells of each I bought for testing so the bulk of my AAs are still Eneloops.  The non Eneloops I haven't had long enough to say anything about their reliability. 
Title: Re: Question for Steve Harris (or anyone else) ENELOOP VS ENERGIZER
Post by: Bradbn4 on April 22, 2020, 12:43:06 PM
For my AA/AAA use I use and enjoy Eneloop style batteries.

Remember, the battery charger that is often included 'free' with some of the battery packs my not be the battery charger you want to use full time.

I have been using the Nitecore  4-Channel Smart Battery Charger for Li-ion, Ni-Cd, and NiMH Batteries.

This  battery charger is not cheap; but it does provide a nice display on the status of the batteries during the charge cycle.   My charger is more than a few years old, so my guess it is not the exact same one being currently sold today.

Here is the sales add from their website.

Nitecore D4 Digicharger is a universal smart charger compatible with almost all cylindrical rechargeable batteries. D4 comes four independent microcomputer-controlled charging channels and capable to monitor and charge up to four batteries simultaneously. It is fully automated that it detects the battery type, selects the appropriate charging mode and stops when it completes. Its crystal clear LED screen displays the real time charging mode, progress. Nitecore D4 is truly the world’s most advanced fully automated digital charger. It’s as simple as insert, detect and charge.


Compatible battery types:
        Li-ion (26650, 22650, 18650, 17670, 18490, 17500, 18350, 16340(RCR123), 14500, 10440).
        Ni-MH and Ni-Cd (AA, AAA, AAAA, C)
    Fully automated
    Digital display charging status