The Survival Podcast Forum

Survivalism & Self Sufficiency Topics => The HAM Radio Board => Topic started by: Alan Georges on July 30, 2014, 07:40:10 PM

Title: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on July 30, 2014, 07:40:10 PM
Hey y'all, Carl and I are going to try for another southeast NVIS session this Sunday at 1pm CTD on 7.250 LSB.  If it's busy, we'll inch up by 3 KHz steps until we find clear spectrum.  Feel free to jump in an join us if you can, or just listen in if you have an SSB-capible SW receiver and are so inclined.

Carl's in north LA, I'm in coastal MS, so there's a good chance of hearing us anywhere from FL to TX, maybe north into southern Illinois, or even a bit farther if Mr. Ionosphere smiles upon us.

If things work out, we may keep doing this on a regular basis.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Saint-TyR on July 31, 2014, 01:30:22 PM
Sounds like a plan...
 
Stay Safe!
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on July 31, 2014, 02:27:10 PM
Yep. Nothin' like blowin' the dust off the mic and talking to friends. :tinfoily:

We need a radio smiley ,but tin foil hat was close enough...
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on July 31, 2014, 06:33:51 PM
OK, here's the forecast for Sunday.  Well actually it's a broad average over what things should be doing around 1800utc for the entire month of August, but I'll take it.  Remember, it's only a rough model prediction from a freebie site (voacap.com), and conditions may be quite different on any give day.

So for the date and time on 40m:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/m40-ssb.png)

This was modeled for dipole antenna at 10m height, which is as close as the web interface options has to an NVIS set-up  100 watts.  It's centered on Baton Rouge, but you can sort of move the coverage patch around in your mind's eye to imagine what it'd be where you are.


As a what-if, here's the same for 20m:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/m20-ssb.png)

For this one I used the 1/4 wave vertical antenna option, since that's similar to what a steep inverted V actually is.


Looking toward future attempts, if SSB doesn't work out and people want to try PSK31 we get...
40m:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/m40-psk.png)

and 20m:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/m20-psk.png)

Looks a bit better, but not everyone's set up for it.  Still, if the ionosphere cooperates on Sunday we may have this good of propagation on SSB.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 03, 2014, 08:07:20 AM
Bump.  Reminder, today's the day at 1pm CDT.

Anybody up for a try on 20m at 1:30?  I'll suggest 14.310, stepping up by 2.5 KHz if that frequency's in use.  Please post back here if you want to try 20m, if there's no interest we'll just stick to 40m.

Also, jump into the chat room when the time(s) draw near.  That way we can have some backup on what's working, what isn't.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 03, 2014, 11:14:43 AM
Bump.  Reminder, today's the day at 1pm CDT.

Anybody up for a try on 20m at 1:30?  I'll suggest 14.310, stepping up by 2.5 KHz if that frequency's in use.  Please post back here if you want to try 20m, if there's no interest we'll just stick to 40m.

Also, jump into the chat room when the time(s) draw near.  That way we can have some backup on what's working, what isn't.

Good idea ,but rarely is 20 meters NVIS capable...a CQ-TSP would not be out of line.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 03, 2014, 11:28:15 AM
Good idea ,but rarely is 20 meters NVIS capable...
I knew you were going to say that!

See Hear you in a half hour.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 03, 2014, 12:27:07 PM
7.250 was S-9 noise ,but successful test as Alan showed up , also a Tulsa OK,station and a station near Paris Texas were heard and pleasantry exchanged. Alan , I was at the abandoned peppermint mine about 40 feet below ground and my antenna there is a 40 meter FULL WAVE LOOP , actually 154 feet of 10 gauge wire with a 4 to 1 balun placed 4 to 6 inches below ground. Alan...you were above noise and readable till some fade came and went...certainly workable..The Tulsa and Paris? TX stations were 15 over S-9 and 5 over s-9 . Not bad for a worm gathering loop...Wet from rain the soil took more of my power than planed but excellent low profile test of a totally buried antenna.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 03, 2014, 12:43:21 PM
Well that was pretty cool, it sort of minimally worked.  Just talked with SCW on 20m too.  The band was extremely variable, from about 1x1 to 4x5.

Anybody else hear us chattering?

Also Carl, hats off to you and your ultra low-profile antenna. 8)   It seems to have worked well enough for folks a little closer to you, and I suspect when the ionosphere is a little more cooperative this winter it'll reach down here on the Gulf too.

I'm gonna go ponder these results.  Maybe write up something in a day or two, on what worked, what didn't, and what to try next.

Thanks to everyone who tried on this, and please post any signal reports if you were listening in, even (especially?) if you didn't hear anything.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 03, 2014, 12:54:28 PM
For any REAL results ,we must have a baseline. This should be something to continue for a time...even if few call in,I suspect we will get some reception reports from TSP interested....maybe Jack could announce our testing ,time and frequency and as you see above...call signs are private and ,beyond antenna testing,our CQ TSP is just that...easily recognized by those who know.



Bad news though...worms pretty much marked the entire path of my buried loop antenna ...few would ever know why they came up in a trapezoid pattern in the woods though.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 03, 2014, 01:14:58 PM
For any REAL results ,we must have a baseline. This should be something to continue for a time...even if few call in,I suspect we will get some reception reports from TSP interested....maybe Jack could announce our testing ,time and frequency and as you see above...call signs are private and ,beyond antenna testing,our CQ TSP is just that...easily recognized by those who know.
OK, sounds like a plan.  Keep doing this at 1pm central on Sundays?  40m at 1, 20m at 1:30?


Quote
Bad news though...worms pretty much marked the entire path of my buried loop antenna ...few would ever know why they came up in a trapezoid pattern in the woods though.
Carl, there's a reason they call these things aerials, not dirtials!  Maybe Jack can work this into a future fishing show, something on how to get bait.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 03, 2014, 01:37:54 PM
OK, sounds like a plan.  Keep doing this at 1pm central on Sundays?  40m at 1, 20m at 1:30?

Carl, there's a reason they call these things aerials, not dirtials!  Maybe Jack can work this into a future fishing show, something on how to get bait.

Guess that proves that NVIS will get your signal out of a hole and with the noise so high (S7) here the past two tests,I am encouraged that the NVIS will prove ideal for working the twilight zone area between VHF and typical HF range.When I was asked how high my antenna was by the Tulsa OK station..he asked again ...did you say MINUS 4 INCHES?
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 03, 2014, 02:13:01 PM
For way more info on WORM GRABBER ANTENNA..buried antennas check here. They are only the best choice for not being seen,but favorable first test shows promise for NVIS where antenna must be hidden.

http://archive.org/stream/jresv65Dn1p89/jresv65Dn1p89_A1b_djvu.txt
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: armymars on August 03, 2014, 06:49:34 PM
  If your going to go minus 4" Try a Continuous Current Distributed Antenna. You want a large H wave and a low E wave to keep losses down.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: redeyeprep on August 04, 2014, 07:06:59 AM
Bad news though...worms pretty much marked the entire path of my buried loop antenna ...few would ever know why they came up in a trapezoid pattern in the woods though.

Aliens, obviously. Or maybe super intelligent worms trying desperately to communicate with us using simple geometrical shapes.   ;D
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 04, 2014, 07:24:06 AM
  If your going to go minus 4" Try a Continuous Current Distributed Antenna. You want a large H wave and a low E wave to keep losses down.

That may be a help with my soil,it was wet during first test,and I want results over time to judge,but believe I have roon within the loop to 'plant' a CCD,norally the CCD is best at a low constant level above 'ground' but as true earth ground is actually below the surface...it may prove well as the hideout is within a good size man-made hill of about 15 feet above terrain though it looks a natural hill due to tree growth etc.The occupied area is below 40 to 45 feet of soil and don't feel RF exposure is a problem as only feed-line shows any reading on field strength meter.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: armymars on August 04, 2014, 09:23:41 AM
  Many years ago in April issue of QST they had an artical of an underground antenna. It was their April Fools Joke.  A novice read it and put a dipole inside a garden hose in his mother's rock garden. He worked 17 states before he was told it was a joke.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 04, 2014, 03:27:44 PM
I am going to put up an end fed half wave for 40 meters at about 8 feet to keep over dawg teeth and my head..Plan for 78 feet and a 17 foot 6 inch counter poise...78 is a tad long but it will be BENT as my yard is 55 X 57 feet and 78 feet matched well and tuned on temporary PVC supports .
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 04, 2014, 05:49:40 PM
... at about 8 feet
Looking forward to next Sunday, Carl.  Should give, dunno, at 10-ish dB more gain?  Ought to make things much easier, anyway.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 05, 2014, 06:38:36 AM
Looking forward to next Sunday, Carl.  Should give, dunno, at 10-ish dB more gain?  Ought to make things much easier, anyway.

May be a better way,but remember that only a very small bit of signal is reflected at the high angle of NVIS and I may,or may not,see one as better than the other under one test and the rigors of NVIS.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 05, 2014, 05:58:53 PM
Hey Carl, scroll down to about slide 28 of this presentation, to the slide titled "Installation Height."
http://www.w5jck.com/nvis/W5JCK-NVIS-Antenna-Presentation.pdf

If that slide's right, you should see a pretty good jump in performance just by getting a wire up at head height.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 09, 2014, 09:50:07 PM
Hey folks, something's come up for tomorrow and I may not make this Sunday's 40m shout-out.  All's well, but it's looking like about a 1-in-3 chance I'll be there.  So if I'm there, I'm there, and if not, there's next week.  Either way, good luck to all on this tomorrow.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 10, 2014, 06:01:03 AM
Hey folks, something's come up for tomorrow and I may not make this Sunday's 40m shout-out.  All's well, but it's looking like about a 1-in-3 chance I'll be there.  So if I'm there, I'm there, and if not, there's next week.  Either way, good luck to all on this tomorrow.

Still in my plan to call CQ-TSP starting 1PM,7250 or up 3 if busy each Sunday. Any contact or listener report welcome.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 10, 2014, 11:33:38 AM
Well the day didn't go as planned, so I'm back in.  7230 at 1pm CDT it is!

Also, will try on 20m 14.310 at 1:30, stepping up by 2.5 khz as needed.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 10, 2014, 12:40:06 PM
Well the day didn't go as planned, so I'm back in.  7230 at 1pm CDT it is!

Also, will try on 20m 14.310 at 1:30, stepping up by 2.5 khz as needed.

The rest of us were at 7.250 and had better than last week reports with the end fed half wave at 8 feet as propagation may have improved I plan to continue with the end fed half wave (65 feet and 17 1/2 feet off center fed antenna) at the woods location..The buried loop will remain as it also is viable and only the worms know it is there.

I did a bit of house keeping in the long abandoned peppermint mine, Actually an old missile site from in the 60's and made storage for more dry goods...the constant temps 45 feet down make storage easy.

Good to hear all who checked in and some non TSP folks were directed to TSP so maybe some future survivors are in the works.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 10, 2014, 01:48:26 PM
Yeah, it worked out pretty well today on 40.  Three others besides Carl and myself joined in, from Oklahoma, Georgia, northern Mississippi.  I didn't get any response on 20m, but there's always next week.  Carl's above-ground antenna did well, a good 5 S-units up from last week's results with the subterranean wire.  (The worms are probably happier too.)  The band did die off a few times, briefly, but overall it seems like we've got reliable comms between coastal MS and north-west LA – and some parts even farther out.

I did a bit of house keeping in the long abandoned peppermint mine, Actually an old missile site from in the 60's and made storage for more dry goods...the constant temps 45 feet down make storage easy.
Holy cats, man!  That sounds like a BOL most folks can only dream of!
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 16, 2014, 09:20:16 AM
I will do a call tonight (Aug 16) at 7 PM if any want to try at that time ,mostly a test of antenna and radio I have in my remote site  7.250 plus 3 if busy at 7 PM with a CQ-TSP as my call....this is for identity as Alan Georges and myself agree that we do not post HAM calls and do not discuss much other than antenna,conditions,and general HAM talk .

Answer the call as you like,listeners welcome with their reports to be in this thread..we average 15 minutes or so
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 16, 2014, 04:49:59 PM
Will be there!
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 16, 2014, 05:35:53 PM
CQ CONTEST...I hate contests and they choke up the bands where little can happen in regular communications,you would think these contesters would already know what they are capable of.Just a bunch of people who just want to be able to say they "DID" you and do nothing in the way of promoting radio or friendship. Reminds me of the people who say "NEIGH"
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: armymars on August 16, 2014, 05:46:56 PM
  I tried to call you all last Sunday, but didn't hear anyone. To late today I have a net at 0000z so I won't be there. The FoF2 in Michigan is 5.963 at 23:30z. It should be a little higher where you are. If contests get on your nervices, try 60 meters or one of the other WARC bands. 73
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 16, 2014, 06:15:19 PM
  I tried to call you all last Sunday, but didn't hear anyone. To late today I have a net at 0000z so I won't be there. The FoF2 in Michigan is 5.963 at 23:30z. It should be a little higher where you are. If contests get on your nervices, try 60 meters or one of the other WARC bands. 73

Dr RUTH would help most of the contesters. If the did it once a month ,fine ,but the do it every weekend.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 16, 2014, 06:18:20 PM
Yeah, I hear the contesters too.  Well, people are gonna do contests, races, competitions, etc. and that's fine too, not like I bought and paid for the ionosphere out of my own pocket. :)  Things get crowded on a Saturday evening, to be sure.

If you want to try again tomorrow at 1pm CDT (1800 Zulu), I'm down for that.

Also, will try on 20m 14.310 at 1:30pm CDT, stepping up by 2.5 khz as needed.

Speaking of a frequency step, something I've been meaning to mention... Last winter over at the Prepared Ham board we tried to get a net going on Wednesday evenings, and it sort worked, sorta didn't.  But one thing that kept happening was a 3 khz step would bump us from one interfered-with frequency into another one.  People tend to go toward round numbers, so if we (say) started at 7250, then stepped 7253, there would always be someone yaking on 7255!  When we backed off to a 2.5 khz step, we could usually snick in between the two conversations on 7250 & 7255.

But hell, we were all over the place before most evenings ended, and none of it worked very well.  I'm still ruminating about putting together an uberpost covering lessons learned from that month-long goat rodeo.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 16, 2014, 07:02:40 PM
That is the beauty of NVIS,the band works for us when it dosn't work for the high-antenna folks. I am up for moost anything to keep gathering antenna and conversation...I heard no-one today,except the 'special' HAM who moved in 1 khz away from where I was already calling ,that came up and asked if his 30 over S-9 signal was bothering me ...he found out where I was and wanted a contact....I just said no...the QSB was too bad and I could not hear him.

Tomorrow at 1 PM CST on 7.250 should do just fine.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 17, 2014, 12:05:28 PM
Lots of lightning in the area, so I'm getting a steady S8 in background noise.  Could barely hear Carl over all of the hiss.

Will try on 20m 14.310 at 1:30pm CDT, even though the background noise isn't any better there.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 17, 2014, 12:13:19 PM
Lots of lightning in the area, so I'm getting a steady S8 in background noise.  Could barely hear Carl over all of the hiss.

Will try on 20m 14.310 at 1:30pm CDT, even though the background noise isn't any better there.

DSP on the FT 450 Yaesu had cleaned up so your audio was good here Alan and noise was at S-5 ,You were S-8 to S-9 with occasional noise for people on 7.248 who were 20 over 9 here,but I filtered them out. I heard no one else today...looks like rain moving in from West Texas...we need some rain. I will try 20 meters then do a bit more organizing in the diggs.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 17, 2014, 12:24:59 PM
Ah, cool, we're running the same rigs.  Your signal report makes it easy to understand now -- S8-S9 signal on each end, but you had S5 noise and could hear me, but with S8 noise on this end, not so clear.

I was running with the main DSP filter at half-strength.  Still wasn't good enough!

OK, maybe hear something on 20m in a couple of minutes.  Time for a cup of coffee first.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 17, 2014, 12:33:54 PM
Called for a few minutes, heard nothing – nothing beyond a steady S8 of background noise.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 17, 2014, 12:41:56 PM
Called for a few minutes, heard nothing – nothing beyond a steady S8 of background noise.

I heard you calling CQ-TSP and answered you on 14.310...but two guys from Northern US were 20 over S-9 here ...and they were there first.
Our NVIS trouble today may be partly due to 40 being somewhat "open" way earlier than usual.

It is still good info for our antenna viability studies.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 17, 2014, 12:52:31 PM
Ah bummer.  I think it comes down to the noise level being on par with the signal level, and there's no real fix for that.  Thanks for the signal report on 20m, I couldn't hear beans down this way.  With all these thunderstorms around, it's like trying to cary on a conversation in a room full of kindergardeners who just came from a shopping spree at a pots'n'pans store.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 23, 2014, 08:39:19 AM
Alan. Our testing is showing results,good and bad ,and we are learning what works and what does not...so we should continue.

One fact has me worried more about this community...over 1000 views and yet way less than ONE PERCENT have gone to the effort to join in on our Sunday tests...or maybe they lack the proper antennas? They should at least test their gear and improve their LOCAL COVERAGE as I have rarely heard of help coming from Honduras or Far-out-istan when localized help was needed.

Could it be that their radio is still in the box,waiting for the day they need it and it won't work? Don't they yet understand the NEED for COMMUNITY as there must be someone at the other end willing and able to provide aide or assistance?

HAM RADIO is an activity,not just a thing in a box...it is a skill...and it should be practiced.

Stepping down off my soap box.....in my reading of TSP , many great ideas have been lost to lack of participation.

I hope I am wrong and they are all just too busy preparing...
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 23, 2014, 02:03:18 PM
Alan. Our testing is showing results,good and bad ,and we are learning what works and what does not...so we should continue.

I agree.  1pm CDT / 1800 Zulu, 7.250 MHz tomorrow.  If there's interference, step up by 2.5 kHz until we get out of the muck.

Then at 1:30 CDT / 18:30 Zulu, 14.310 MHz, again stepping by 2.5 kHz if there's interference.


The ionosphere's been pretty rough this week.  Just tried listening to WWCR's blues show on 12.160 and it was barely there, not really listenable.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: backwoods_engineer on August 23, 2014, 08:31:45 PM
I'll be listening for the CQ TSP.
I'm in east-central Alabama.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 24, 2014, 07:21:37 AM
I'll be listening for the CQ TSP.
I'm in east-central Alabama.

GREAT!   :clap:   7.250 and plus 2.5 if busy at 1 PM CST . You should be in NVIS range as we choose the time that the 40 meter band is usually not open so it is less crowded and NVIS does not depend on the band being "OPEN"
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 24, 2014, 08:12:58 AM
I'll be listening for the CQ TSP.
I'm in east-central Alabama.
Looking forward to it, Backwoods.  Should be an easy reach.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 24, 2014, 12:12:18 PM
Called for a while, no contacts.  Ah well, the rest of 40m sounds kind of quiet too.  Will try 20m at 1:30.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: backwoods_engineer on August 24, 2014, 12:13:49 PM
Well, I'll have to get a wire antenna strung for next week's 40m test.  In the mobile, I heard what I thought was CQ TSP on 7.250 a couple of times, but it was well down in the noise, and I could not pull out any callsigns.  I'll listen at 1:30 for the 20 meter test.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 24, 2014, 12:19:11 PM
OK, will be there.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 24, 2014, 12:25:32 PM
There's a ragchew going on on 14.310.  Bumping up to 14.3125.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 24, 2014, 12:34:52 PM
Nope, quiet on 20m too.  OK, try again next week.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 24, 2014, 12:36:13 PM
Sorry guys...life got in the way...my son called,his Nuke Sub was stationed close enough to OMAN (spelled wrong probably) that he SKYPE called me for a short video chat as he fears that he is about to lose his father(ME) to cancer. Heard you on 14.312.5 but you could not hear me as it was to close.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 24, 2014, 12:38:49 PM
Real life like that DEFINITELY takes priority over a Sunday afternoon QSO.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: backwoods_engineer on August 24, 2014, 12:41:04 PM
I heard nothing on 14.3125, but I also did not hear the ragchew you heard on 14.310.
I know equipment is working, because I heard contesters at 14.286.7, and a ragchew on 14.259.

The mic on my Kenwood TS-50 has wires loose, so I couldn't have talked to y'all anyway :-)  Got the soldering iron fired up, and I will be in ship shape for next week's test.

Also, going to order a balun so I can construct a GrassWire antenna for next week.

I've set an alarm on the iPhone to be on next week.  Enjoying this.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: backwoods_engineer on August 24, 2014, 12:43:01 PM
Sorry guys...life got in the way...my son called,his Nuke Sub was stationed close enough to OMAN (spelled wrong probably) that he SKYPE called me for a short video chat as he fears that he is about to lose his father(ME) to cancer. Heard you on 14.312.5 but you could not hear me as it was to close.

You definitely didn't want to miss that Skype call.  My prayers are with you on your cancer.  Lost my father in law that way.  Praying you can beat it.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 24, 2014, 12:44:54 PM
I heard nothing on 14.3125, but I also did not hear the ragchew you heard on 14.310.
I know equipment is working, because I heard contesters at 14.286.7, and a ragchew on 14.259.

The mic on my Kenwood TS-50 has wires loose, so I couldn't have talked to y'all anyway :-)  Got the soldering iron fired up, and I will be in ship shape for next week's test.

Also, going to order a balun so I can construct a GrassWire antenna for next week.

I've set an alarm on the iPhone to be on next week.  Enjoying this.

Grasswire is not hard to deply. You will be amazed at performance from an antenna that most people would say CAN'T WORK.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 31, 2014, 06:39:14 AM
Anybody up for trying again today?  Carl, you up for this?  I'll be there.  Here's the sched:

40m: 1pm CDT / 1800 Zulu, 7.250 MHz (LSB).  If there's interference, step up by 2.5 kHz until we get out of the muck.

20m: 1:30 CDT / 18:30 Zulu, 14.310 MHz (USB).  If there's interference, step up to 14.320, then step from 2.5 kHz from there.

There's been some ruckus on 14.313, it's become sort of ham radio's very own CB Ch. 6 of late.  The FCC's been trying to clean it up, but there was still a bit of angry chatter there last week.  So let's step over that mess and go straight to 14.320 if there's interference on the original frequency.

If you're not a ham but have an SSB-equiped SW receiver, listen in and give a signal report.  The more, the better.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 31, 2014, 09:26:13 AM
I have lunch out today,parents Anniversary. But I should be there on time.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 31, 2014, 12:00:12 PM
And a local ragchew just started on 7.248, starting straight up on 7.252.5
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on August 31, 2014, 12:41:48 PM
Well that was a nice Sunday chat with Carl.  Didn't copy anyone else, anybody hear us going on?

Called but heard nothing up on 14.310 (except for a little spatter from the 14.313 guys...) so I jumped up to 14.320, right into a special event station calling CQ on 14.319.

OK, back to the rest of this Sunday's regularly scheduled IRL activities...
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on August 31, 2014, 12:54:00 PM
Well that was a nice Sunday chat with Carl.  Didn't copy anyone else, anybody hear us going on?

Called but heard nothing up on 14.310 (except for a little spatter from the 14.313 guys...) so I jumped up to 14.320, right into a special event station calling CQ on 14.319.

OK, back to the rest of this Sunday's regularly scheduled IRL activities...

Pretty much the same here Alan. Maybe others have "long weekend" plans with Monday and all. You were 5 DB over S9 on the end fed half wave /grape arbor and though I could hear you on the underground loop...ready for it.....your signal was MUDDY.
No signals heard on 14.310 except the over powered,over compressed signals from 14.313.

Great test and the EASY antenna , the end fed half wave (just 74 feet of wire at 8 feet up) is really standind tall as an antenna to use.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on September 06, 2014, 05:32:44 PM
Again tomorrow!  Here's the sched:

40m: 1pm CDT / 1800 Zulu, 7.250 MHz (LSB).  If there's interference, step up by 2.5 kHz until we get out of the muck.

20m: 1:30 CDT / 18:30 Zulu, 14.310 MHz (USB).  If there's interference, step up to 14.320, then step from 2.5 kHz from there.

Be there or be square.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on September 07, 2014, 12:31:29 PM
Nothing happened on 40m this week, and up on 20m, 14.310, .320, & .3225 are all busy with other folks.  Meh, maybe next week.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on September 07, 2014, 12:47:08 PM
I was there ,but propagation was so good the VE's were 30 over S9 and NVIS would not do with such high signal levels.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: armymars on September 07, 2014, 05:13:00 PM
Try droping down to 60 meters. You could also double check DIDBasic.com. Go to the home page pick your closest city and check the FoF2.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: armymars on September 07, 2014, 05:51:54 PM
Sorry I made a mistake. The web site is  ulcar.uml.edu/DIDBase  . Go to station list to find the closest city to you. How far north or south you live will affict the FoF2 for your state Auston TX and Eglin AFB had a FoF2  of 8.850  and 8.587 MHz. Ware as Alpina MI and Bolder Co.  were 4.750 and 4.550 MHz all at 1900Z (GMT)
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Canadian Prepper on September 07, 2014, 06:02:30 PM
I tuned into 14.310 at 2:30 EST and thought I heard the CQ for TSP up here in Toronto Canada, but didn't appear to have any luck when responding. My landlord has offered to mount the dipole off the roof of the house, which should double the height if I could hook the other end to the tree across the property, so God willing I'll eventually be able get through to you.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on September 07, 2014, 06:08:20 PM
Cool...Thanks.

Alan and I are looking at antenna comparisons,for now. and the data from the site will give us more data for our comparisons.
For now though,we get data whether we can talk to each other or not . But it is more fun when we can talk.

Thanks again for the information.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on September 07, 2014, 06:18:49 PM
I tuned into 14.310 at 2:30 EST and thought I heard the CQ for TSP up here in Toronto Canada, but didn't appear to have any luck when responding. My landlord has offered to mount the dipole off the roof of the house, which should double the height if I could hook the other end to the tree across the property, so God willing I'll eventually be able get through to you.

Today was quite noisy for Alan and I this afternoon is not normally the best time for 40 meters ,and that is why we do it at what is normally a poor propagation time ,because NVIS works for local (Alan is 200 miles from me) comms when propagation has the band closed for distance. Alan does also call in 14.310 plus a bit at 1:30 and that would be your best time for us.

VULTURE774 is working up a TSP NET and it should be at better propagation times and frequencies than my and Alans NVIS test sessions. Alan and I will,schedule allowing, be at that net time also. So keep working at it to develop hardware and skills
and this combined effort should begin to grow as we collect more ANTS.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on September 07, 2014, 06:37:26 PM
I tuned into 14.310 at 2:30 EST and thought I heard the CQ for TSP up here in Toronto Canada, but didn't appear to have any luck when responding. My landlord has offered to mount the dipole off the roof of the house, which should double the height if I could hook the other end to the tree across the property, so God willing I'll eventually be able get through to you.
Wasn't me.  All I could hear were some QSL parties and rag-chews in progress, on the primary and both alternate frequencies, so I moved on.

Don't give up though, CP!  Winter is coming, bringing better propagation, and we're still working some ideas.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on September 07, 2014, 06:40:40 PM
Wasn't me.  All I could hear were some QSL parties and rag-chews in progress, on the primary and both alternate frequencies, so I moved on.

Don't give up though, CP!  Winter is coming, bringing better propagation, and we're still working some ideas.

He must have heard me going through the motions and calling CQ-TSP,even with the heavy traffic. Perhaps a week day would get some of the contesters out of the program?
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on September 07, 2014, 07:35:51 PM
Perhaps a week day would get some of the contesters out of the program?

I think you're right.  Also, it'll have to be an evening, probably after dark now that fall's almost here.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Canadian Prepper on September 07, 2014, 08:26:11 PM
He must have heard me going through the motions and calling CQ-TSP,even with the heavy traffic. Perhaps a week day would get some of the contesters out of the program?

That would make sense. I thought I heard someone distinctly call CQ TSP at least twice, but a few minutes later it became apparent that some other users were on the same frequency.

I find that I could get a response on the 14.300 Intercon and Maritime Mobile Nets if I'm around during the week or even on Saturday or Sunday mornings, but Friday, Saturday and Sunday evenings I'm drowned out by the plethora of other callers.

With the propagation getting better and my dipole higher I trust that we'll make contact eventually. In the meantime it's a pleasure to track your progress and ideas on the forum.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: John Doe on September 08, 2014, 12:33:33 AM
Yep. Nothin' like blowin' the dust off the mic and talking to friends. :tinfoily:

We need a radio smiley
,but tin foil hat was close enough...

admin could we add this one:
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-talk029.gif) or (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-talk013.gif)

 8)
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on September 08, 2014, 05:45:05 AM
admin could we add this one:
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-talk029.gif) or (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-talk013.gif)

 8)

COOL.../they are both great!
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: backwoods_engineer on September 09, 2014, 04:10:23 PM
I was out of pocket for last Sunday's tests, and will be on the road this Sunday, but I could try from the 100Watt HF mobile station.  I have a Hamstick on 20 meters, and I think I have one for 40 somewheres...
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on September 09, 2014, 04:35:08 PM
I was out of pocket for last Sunday's tests, and will be on the road this Sunday, but I could try from the 100Watt HF mobile station.  I have a Hamstick on 20 meters, and I think I have one for 40 somewheres...

Great, you might also look at this thread for weekday net:

http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=51531.0;topicseen
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on September 14, 2014, 08:04:57 AM
Still on for today.  Here's the sched:

40m: 1pm CDT / 1800 Zulu, 7.250 MHz (LSB).  If there's interference, step up by 2.5 kHz until we get out of the muck.

20m: 1:30 CDT / 18:30 Zulu, 14.310 MHz (USB).  If there's interference, step up to 14.320, then step from 2.5 kHz from there.

Please post if you're going to try to make it, and let us know about any signal reports afterward.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on September 14, 2014, 08:29:19 AM
Still on for today.  Here's the sched:

40m: 1pm CDT / 1800 Zulu, 7.250 MHz (LSB).  If there's interference, step up by 2.5 kHz until we get out of the muck.

20m: 1:30 CDT / 18:30 Zulu, 14.310 MHz (USB).  If there's interference, step up to 14.320, then step from 2.5 kHz from there.

Please post if you're going to try to make it, and let us know about any signal reports afterward.

GREAT DEAL Alan, I will be at the Peppermint Mine organizing a few pallets of #10 cans and playing TWISTER game with my dog.I will run my 1/2 wave end fed as ground moisture is a bit high for the under soil antenna.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: armymars on September 14, 2014, 09:29:28 AM
  I'll see if I can fined you on 20. 73
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on September 14, 2014, 11:45:00 AM
There's an extended ragchew going on on 7248.  I'm moving things up to 7252.5, and am going start calling CQ to camp out on the frequency.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on September 14, 2014, 11:51:19 AM
There's an extended ragchew going on on 7248.  I'm moving things up to 7252.5, and am going start calling CQ to camp out on the frequency.

Warming up the rig,tuning the either...Alan ,you sound strong today,but the CME was rough as my AGC kept cutting back. Georgia sounded good ans would have been 100% if not for the noise.The dog wanted some of my long term storage CHEETOES ,so I cracked open a drum of the stuff, MMMMM comfort food. I gotta' get some FIZZIES so the water will have some variety.I will try 20 meters from home.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on September 14, 2014, 12:21:20 PM
Yum!  OK, I'm up on 20m, camping out on 14.310 and calling CQ...
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on September 14, 2014, 12:37:02 PM
Yum!  OK, I'm up on 20m, camping out on 14.310 and calling CQ...

I heard organized noise,partial signal...maybe the mother ship.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suBp3ai-xG8
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on September 14, 2014, 12:49:10 PM
I heard one station on 20m, K?3???, respond way down in the noise, but that was it.

Ah well, on 40m that one guy came booming in from GA just fine, and of course we were able to talk Carl.  So again, we're having some success.

Time for a drink of water and a few phone calls.  Then I'll go play on 10m, see if there's anybody up there.

It's almost the equinox, a week from next Tuesday.  Already the noise level is better, and good propagation is just around the corner.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on September 14, 2014, 02:14:52 PM
I heard one station on 20m, K?3???, respond way down in the noise, but that was it.

Ah well, on 40m that one guy came booming in from GA just fine, and of course we were able to talk Carl.  So again, we're having some success.

Time for a drink of water and a few phone calls.  Then I'll go play on 10m, see if there's anybody up there.

It's almost the equinox, a week from next Tuesday.  Already the noise level is better, and good propagation is just around the corner.

VK6FCIP...Peter who lives near Perth Australia ( a friend of mine) was listening and said he was hearing bits of you or me on 14.310 and called ,but with the "F" in his call is limited to 5 or 10 watts, something like that, he heard voices but not 100% it was us.He and I talk daily on my Echo Link node that is tied to a local repeater.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on September 20, 2014, 07:00:01 AM
On for tomorrow!  Jump in, we've got to keep the ionosphere warm while Carl's recovering.  Here's the sched:

40m: 1pm CDT / 1800 Zulu, 7.250 MHz (LSB).  If there's interference, step up by 2.5 kHz until we get out of the muck.

20m: 1:30 CDT / 18:30 Zulu, 14.310 MHz (USB).  If there's interference, step up to 14.320, then step from 2.5 kHz from there.

Please post if you're going to try to make it, and let us know about any signal reports afterward.  Shortwave listeners encouraged to tune in and give signal reports too.  As always, don't post call signs, some folks are sensitive about that stuff.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: xsquidgator on September 21, 2014, 10:50:14 AM
I have my NVIS setup and will listen in, looks like in a little over an hour from now.

Are you guys set up for digital modes, too?  20m (14.070) isn't real hot now but I've just now been able to make some PSK31 contacts out to Maine and one in Guatemala on 15m- 20.080 MHz.  If you don't mind slow comms I'm game to try 15m or 20m (or 40m, but I haven't heard any digital traffic out there)
xsquid

On for tomorrow!  Jump in, we've got to keep the ionosphere warm while Carl's recovering.  Here's the sched:

40m: 1pm CDT / 1800 Zulu, 7.250 MHz (LSB).  If there's interference, step up by 2.5 kHz until we get out of the muck.

20m: 1:30 CDT / 18:30 Zulu, 14.310 MHz (USB).  If there's interference, step up to 14.320, then step from 2.5 kHz from there.

Please post if you're going to try to make it, and let us know about any signal reports afterward.  Shortwave listeners encouraged to tune in and give signal reports too.  As always, don't post call signs, some folks are sensitive about that stuff.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on September 21, 2014, 11:57:43 AM
On in 3 minutes.  Will discuss digital modes, either on the air or here.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: xsquidgator on September 21, 2014, 12:07:34 PM
What freq are you on? I went up from 7.250 to 7.279 until I heard anyone, but I don't think it's you guys.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on September 21, 2014, 12:11:21 PM
7.250

It's quiet out there today.  Not much noise (~S1), but not many signals either.

Tried the NVIS, then the inverted V 40/20m combo, called for 7 minutes, nothing.

OK, there's always 20m in 20 minutes!  14.310, with 14.320 for an alternate.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on September 21, 2014, 12:35:24 PM
Also quiet; noise ~S3, but no signals either.  More discussion later, I've got a gun show to attend before closing time.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: vulture774 on September 21, 2014, 03:49:37 PM
Sorry Alan,  I just finished working.  Missed the attempt.  I'll be checking the forum on & off for the next few hours.....Maybe you'll tell me if you found anything good at the Fun Show!



Tom D.
KB3PKB
73  73
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on September 21, 2014, 08:15:03 PM
Sorry Alan,  I just finished working.  Missed the attempt.  I'll be checking the forum on & off for the next few hours.....Maybe you'll tell me if you found anything good at the Fun Show!
And fun it was!  But nothing particularly new or exciting, frankly kind of slow.  But still fun, it's like a roving toy store that's only open nearby a couple of times a year.

About todays attempt... didn't hear anything, not even interfering stations.  You didn't miss much, Vulture.  The ionosphere was pretty uncooperative.  So far to date, just by being on and calling, either Carl or I have dug up a few TSP people along with a couple of random passers-by.  Not even that today.  I wonder if I could have even talked with Carl, had he been well enough; the ionosphere was that dull.

Had a side discussion with XSquidGator about going over to digital, probably PSK31 (we were going to continue this conversation later today, but I got wrapped up in some other stuff, will give a shout later XSG!).  I'm not sure that this "most of CONUS on 100 watts and an expedient wire antenna" stuff is ever going to work for ssb, but maybe the 20 dB tailwind digital provides could make it feasible.  I'm going to go ruminate on this for a day or two, and may start another thread to hash out some issues.

Hey, we tried.  Sometimes the deck just come up all wrong.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on September 27, 2014, 02:06:00 PM
even negative data is good data
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on September 27, 2014, 06:21:59 PM
even negative data is good data
That's good news, because we're amassing a pile of it!   :)

Trying again tomorrow, adding to the data pile:

40m: 1pm CDT / 1800 Zulu, 7.250 MHz (LSB).  If there's interference, step up by 2.5 kHz until we get out of the muck.

20m: 1:30 CDT / 18:30 Zulu, 14.310 MHz (USB).  If there's interference, step up to 14.320, then step from 2.5 kHz from there.

Hope folks can make it.


Side note to Carl: take it easy, don't push things, don't try anything the doctors would frown upon!  Make it when you can, the ionosphere'll still be there.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on September 28, 2014, 12:06:24 PM
Called, heard nothing.  Perhaps something was buried in the background noise, which is running S7 around here today.

OK, will try again on 20m on the half-hour.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on September 28, 2014, 12:28:50 PM
And somebody just started calling "CQ Contest" on 14.310.  Going to 14.320.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on September 28, 2014, 12:55:21 PM
Nope.  Talked with one random passerby up in Michigan, that was about all.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on September 28, 2014, 03:11:11 PM
That's good news, because we're amassing a pile of it!   :)

Trying again tomorrow, adding to the data pile:

40m: 1pm CDT / 1800 Zulu, 7.250 MHz (LSB).  If there's interference, step up by 2.5 kHz until we get out of the muck.

20m: 1:30 CDT / 18:30 Zulu, 14.310 MHz (USB).  If there's interference, step up to 14.320, then step from 2.5 kHz from there.

Hope folks can make it.


Side note to Carl: take it easy, don't push things, don't try anything the doctors would frown upon!  Make it when you can, the ionosphere'll still be there.

I am not allowed off my back and only two  fingers on left hand to type with,I have my comms bag with PC HF UHF VHF GPS/SPOT and SAT phone plus two am/fm/sw receivers to play with for now...minimalist...I know. Hacked into SECURE WIFY FOR internet.Head here told me OK,if you can get past his security...3 minutes...the net has been my play ground for long time.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on September 28, 2014, 04:06:07 PM
Hacked into SECURE WIFY FOR internet.Head here told me OK,if you can get past his security...3 minutes...the net has been my play ground for long time.
They didn't know who they were messing with.  8)
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: vulture774 on September 28, 2014, 05:18:29 PM
Sorry I missed the attempt, I just got back from my In-Law's campground.   Kids had Grandparents weekend camping fun,  Now I have to vacuum up my car.  :(


Hey Carl! Good to see you back on.  Hope you're doing well.   Were they using good old WEP for "security"?



Tom D.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on September 28, 2014, 07:37:58 PM
Sorry I missed the attempt, I just got back from my In-Law's campground.   Kids had Grandparents weekend camping fun,  Now I have to vacuum up my car.  :(


Hey Carl! Good to see you back on.  Hope you're doing well.   Were they using good old WEP for "security"?



Tom D.


YES and was not tough crack for STONER3.1 to unlock.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on October 04, 2014, 07:17:23 PM
Not a lot going on in this SSB net, so let's go for a PSK net in a couple of weeks.  I'm thinking a little later, maybe 2-pm-ish so as to not cut into people's Sunday morning-and-dinner plans.  More details later, but in the meantime, anybody got any input or feedback?

Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: vulture774 on October 05, 2014, 12:21:48 PM
Cables installed and I have an operational waterfall in fldigi!!!
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on October 05, 2014, 02:03:30 PM
Cables installed and I have an operational waterfall in fldigi!!!


RED ALERT......,Do not run more than 25 watt on your 100 watt ssb rig with Digital being so high a duty cycle...you will SMOKE you radio.I can't type well enough to give details,trust me and do not do it. Digital advantage 20 watts= 2000 watts SSB voice.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: cellblock776 on October 05, 2014, 10:43:20 PM
I tried calling on 7.250 at 1pm. No reply heard. I've been wanting to check in with you guys but today is the first time I was able and looks like I missed everyone.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: John Doe on October 06, 2014, 02:17:18 AM
even negative data is good data

There is no such thing as a failed experiment, only experiments with unexpected outcomes-Richard Buckminster Fuller
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on December 31, 2014, 06:02:46 AM
It has been a few months and despite the doctors...I am still alive and willing to go at 40 meters and or 20 metersagain if any are interested. I have SSB and PSK available and often time on my hands.


????
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on December 31, 2014, 06:24:10 AM
 8)  Any old time tomorrow works for me.  We're probably too close for 20m Carl, so maybe a separate session for each?  My schedule's open, just... not too early!
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on December 31, 2014, 06:39:55 AM
Best around 1 PM for 40 meters , when the band is usually dead for DX'ers and great for NVIS also good time for 20 as it covers most of the US at that time of day for distant stations as 20 is rarely good for NVIS work.

7.250   14.290  plus ,we can use TSP chat to coordinate,if I run from PC to radio.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on December 31, 2014, 06:50:46 AM
Best around 1 PM for 40 meters , when the band is usually dead for DX'ers and great for NVIS also good time for 20 as it covers most of the US at that time of day for distant stations as 20 is rarely good for NVIS work.

7.250   14.290  plus ,we can use TSP chat to coordinate,if I run from PC to radio.

Tomorrow?  I'm there!  On this weekend too?

I hear you about running between the 'pooter and the radio.  I probably ought to re-arrange my shack, but I'm not sure how I could squeeze things in that way.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on December 31, 2014, 06:55:21 AM
Tomorrow?  I'm there!  On this weekend too?

I hear you about running between the 'pooter and the radio.  I probably ought to re-arrange my shack, but I'm not sure how I could squeeze things in that way.

There is no rush . It is a time to test and be heard . The TSP chat would allow others to report ,even if security was a concern...but if we all wave a flag at once,do they have enough strength to stop us? I think not.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on December 31, 2014, 09:47:19 AM
You think you have enough juice to hit Michigan... ;D

Are you trying today or tomorrow at 1
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on December 31, 2014, 10:04:56 AM
You think you have enough juice to hit Michigan... ;D

Are you trying today or tomorrow at 1

OK ,today at 1 PM CST on 7.250 and at 1:15 on 14.290 as room permits..I will jump into TSP chat room a few minutes before to advise frequency and visit with any who want. I want to later schedule a day/time so that as many as can ,will try . THIS IS ABOUT RADIO and discussion will be mostly about radio ,though most Hams are into preparedness,they rarely call it such.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on December 31, 2014, 10:27:34 AM
ill stick around, I have a radio but I'm not licensed.

I've had my radio for about a year, I listen to my local clubs net each week, not sure if ill be any use to you Carl.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on December 31, 2014, 10:47:27 AM
ill stick around, I have a radio but I'm not licensed.

I've had my radio for about a year, I listen to my local clubs net each week, not sure if ill be any use to you Carl.

All are welcome ,and reporting what you hear is a BIG help. What kind of antenna do you use ...and why not work towards the license? I understand if life gets in the way. I started by building my own CB from a TV when I was 14 and the became on of the youngest REACT organizers in the history of Washington DC (yep ,I lived there) that was many years ago and much has come and gone...but radio is still my hobby and with it,I have done much good.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on December 31, 2014, 10:58:43 AM
The radio is a cheep handheld, I might get my license down the road.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on December 31, 2014, 11:02:11 AM
The radio is a cheep handheld, I might get my license down the road.

All good . probably a Baofeng ...I have ,and use several of the little radios. good to see new people interested in radio.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on December 31, 2014, 11:20:16 AM
That's it baofeng.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on December 31, 2014, 11:49:08 AM
That's it baofeng.

Unless you do magig ,you will not hear us on 7.25 or 24.290 as Baofeng does not cover that area of shortwave , still you are welcome to hang out. I am going to the chat room (TSP) in a minute to see who is going to try.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on December 31, 2014, 05:09:55 PM
Best around 1 PM for 40 meters , when the band is usually dead for DX'ers and great for NVIS also good time for 20 as it covers most of the US at that time of day for distant stations as 20 is rarely good for NVIS work.

7.250   14.290  plus ,we can use TSP chat to coordinate,if I run from PC to radio.
OK, tomorrow at 1 CST suit for everybody?  Try 40m first, stay in contact via the chat room, then eventually switch to 20m.  We can refine from there, maybe have another session on Sunday.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on December 31, 2014, 06:04:43 PM
Unless you do magig ,you will not hear us on 7.25 or 24.290 as Baofeng does not cover that area of shortwave , still you are welcome to hang out. I am going to the chat room (TSP) in a minute to see who is going to try.

What is magig?

I check in via chat tomorrow, if only to try and learn something new.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: SCWolverine on December 31, 2014, 06:19:43 PM
thats 1400 Eastern....not sure what the Honey Do list will entail, but if I can I'll try-
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 01, 2015, 02:25:13 AM
What is magig?

I check in via chat tomorrow, if only to try and learn something new.

MAGIC
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on January 01, 2015, 03:49:22 AM
MAGIC


 :facepalm: I thought it was a HAM radio term "magig"
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 01, 2015, 04:46:10 AM

 :facepalm: I thought it was a HAM radio term "magig"

At times ,I wish it were...like thingamagig.....The UV5R and other HT's (Handy Talkies) are normally VHF (Very High Frequency) and/or UHF(Ultra High Frequency) and were named in a time that they were "No man's land" and thought of as un-usable for reliable communications. The HF (or short wave ) radio works in the area below 30 MHZ and the METER BANDS are named due to the length of the radio wavelength . There are a few portable and hand held radios the work in the HF band ,but very few and the efficiency is limited because of the need for a very large antenna to be effective.

The HAM radio that you have covers a large part of frequencies that Ham operators use and is a very handy and effective radio (I have one UV5R and two of the UV82 radios among the many others I own...and like them a lot) You can use your radio on MURS,FRS,and GMRS (but not GMRS repeaters) without license problems...so see what friends have and get talking...Learn a bit and study for your Ham License and you will have a hobby that rewards you for years to come.

  I have been a Ham for over 25 years and have done so many exciting things ...yet there is still so much I have not tried.
I have helped others ,to the point of saving lives , I have communicated with pilots and even astronauts, I have built repeaters and even bounced my signals off the moon to talk with others,plus used many digital formats and was even a pioneer in the US with High Speed Meteor Scatter communications and the hobby has yet to go stale for me.

 Sorry ,I tend to ramble a bit when it comes to my hobby.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on January 01, 2015, 05:28:03 AM
Thanks, Carl..

What you call rambling dose help me and others, so, please ramble on.. :)
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 01, 2015, 05:32:57 AM
Thanks, Carl..

What you call rambling dose help me and others, so, please ramble on.. :)

Take a look here then,

http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=53004.0
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on January 01, 2015, 11:57:16 AM
7.255 and in the chat room...
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on January 03, 2015, 10:14:16 AM
You guys trying tomorrow at 1 cst?
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 03, 2015, 10:27:37 AM
Yep,Sunday Jan 4 at 1 PM for 40 meters and a shot on 20 meters after. I plan to be here in chat before to find frequency and see who else is about.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on January 03, 2015, 12:01:53 PM
Yep, I'm in too.

Then let's do 20m afterward, maybe reach out a little farther.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on January 03, 2015, 12:49:16 PM
7.255 and in the chat room...

So, if I had my shortwave radio I'd tune it to that frequency 7.225 and listen?



Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 03, 2015, 12:55:37 PM
So, if I had my shortwave radio I'd tune it to that frequency 7.225 and listen?

YEP.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on January 03, 2015, 01:01:47 PM
Got it.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 03, 2015, 01:07:09 PM
Got it.

Good.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on January 04, 2015, 12:28:38 PM
Poor band condition for 40m.  We gave it a shot anyway.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/solar101scphp.gif)
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 04, 2015, 01:11:39 PM
Not so good for NVIS either as we gotta bounce pretty hard to drop back in so close. I really enjoy using the chat room for co-ordination and conversation. Getting together to chat by any means is cool. For the record Alan...you were S9 and noise was the same...without DSP you would not have been heard and what I did hear sounded a bit like you were talking through a fan (DSP did that to crop out the static.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 04, 2015, 01:56:42 PM
Alan...I looked on DX Maps after our less than stellar comms today and noticed that 40 and 20 meters had a large number of contacts listed ...when I broke the info down ...over 90% was digital and the rest CW...HINT HINT. Voice should be done ,but when that fails,a change to digital for the big signal bonus may be our next step for reliability.

Any thoughts.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on January 09, 2015, 07:16:10 PM
I got my sony 7600, so I'm in for this Sunday anybody else?

Carl I've got questions about the 7600 switch selection... it has either LSB or USB I'm not sure which one to choose.

I'll post a picture of the buttons on the 7600 tomorrow, my hope is you will understand it more than me, which should help contact Sunday.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 10, 2015, 04:39:02 AM
I got my sony 7600, so I'm in for this Sunday anybody else?

Carl I've got questions about the 7600 switch selection... it has either LSB or USB I'm not sure which one to choose.

I'll post a picture of the buttons on the 7600 tomorrow, my hope is you will understand it more than me, which should help contact Sunday.

Basic answer...below 10 MHZ Hams use LOWER SIDE BAND , above 10 MHZ Hams use UPPER SIDE BAND.
If you set to the wrong side-band you can't tune the signal properly and it will not sound right
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on January 10, 2015, 08:28:39 AM
Thanks...


LSB for 30 meters and above
USB for 30 meters and under
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 10, 2015, 09:03:33 AM
Thanks...


LSB for 30 meters and above
USB for 30 meters and under

Most Ham radios automatically switch to the 'correct' sideband...so I had to look it up. As there
is really no LAW as to which sideband you have to use.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: armymars on January 11, 2015, 09:25:20 AM
I thought 30 meters was cw only. Grin  It started when we where just getting into SSB. The  IF freq. was most often 9 MHz. So with the filter set up of the day, if you went below 9 MHz the radio generated LSB and if you went above 9 MHz it generated USB. One less oscillator, one less vacuum tube, one less switch. 
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on January 11, 2015, 10:06:38 AM
I thought 30 meters was cw only. Grin  It started when we where just getting into SSB. The  IF freq. was most often 9 MHz. So with the filter set up of the day, if you went below 9 MHz the radio generated LSB and if you went above 9 MHz it generated USB. One less oscillator, one less vacuum tube, one less switch.
This is the simplest, most logical explanation of the origin of the LSB/USB convention that I have ever heard.  Thanks.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on January 11, 2015, 12:30:55 PM
Not horrible band conditions today, but we didn't get anywhere with it either.

We're going to do PSK31 on 40m next week.  Maybe on 20m as well, if distances call for it.

Remember, anybody with a SSB-capable SW receiver and a smartphone can listen in on digital ham traffic too, no license needed, no weird computer interfaces needed either.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 11, 2015, 01:00:04 PM
amen, see you next week
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on January 11, 2015, 01:17:43 PM
Good try guys, I'm learning a lot.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Canadian Prepper on January 11, 2015, 02:08:48 PM
Given everyone's experience here with different NVIS setups, I was wondering if any of you could comment upon the following antenna:

CHAMELEON ANTENNA CHA HYBRID NVIS Vehicular HF Antenna Bases

http://www.dxengineering.com/search/brand/chameleon-antenna/product-line/chameleon-antenna-cha-hybrid-nvis-vehicular-hf-antenna-bases?autoview=SKU&sortby=Default&sortorder=Ascending

Aside from raising my Alpha Delta DX-EE a bit higher to improve its performance, I was thinking that the antenna above might be a good option for regional 80m work. The DX-EE works great on 10, 15, 17, 20 and 40m (though some increased height and minor adjustments might help with the latter), and I've been able to make reasonably consistent contact from Toronto with the Great Lakes Emergency and Traffic Net, that primarily consists of stations from Michigan, with some check ins from Ontario, Ohio, Pennsylvania and NYS, but I'm limited both in terms of height of the antenna and it's one resonance below the appropriate length for 80m. I've looked at the Alpha-Delta DX-CC and while it looks like a promising antenna, it would be quite the chore to set up and maintain in my QTH. There's also a lot of 80m activity closer to home, but it's hard to get heard depending upon where people are relative to the dipole setup (North to South Orientation) which probably isn't best for stations to the North or due South of me where many are located.

Would a simple NVIS setup using the antenna linked to above offer any possibilities. Since any 80m setup in my location will be a compromise, perhaps something that would be able to connect to all of the local and regional traffic would be best. it also sounds as though it would be a great portable option that could quickly be setup for EMCOMM work or trips away from the city. I just suspect that it would offer a better use of the 80m band than if I tried to maximize my DXing ability within my space restrictions.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 11, 2015, 02:29:27 PM
Basically looks to be a 5 to 1 un-un and may help tuner to match antenna ,but will not really improve antenna performance as mobile system lacks GROUND and auto to ground capacitance is poor substitute.

Do you plan to use in motion ? or stationary? as best option would be 1125 to 145 feet long wire (1/2 wave end fed) about 10 feet or so above earth.

More details and I will try to give my best opinion

Many mobile options are here at K0BG:

http://www.k0bg.com/

PS 80 meters is best band for NVIS during day/night operations.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Canadian Prepper on January 11, 2015, 05:36:32 PM
I would plan on using the antenna stationary in the back yard or set up as a portable whenever I might have a chance during trips out of the city or for ARES, etc. In the backyard I've got about 50ft from a tree in the northwest corner to which my dipole is currently attached at about 20-25ft to a balcony at the rear of the house from which the other side of the dipole is attached at approximately 17 feet from the ground. I also have the option of tying the dipole to a supporting post at the east side of the house at approximately 8-10 feet. Right now the room is just big enough for the DX-EE dipole and with luck I might get it a few feet higher yet, but at one harmonic below 80m and probably radiating a bit more to the east and west than north/south, I sure hope that I can improve both my transmissions and receptions to the latter areas. I tried measuring out the rest of the lot (imagine the dipole going over the house to a tall tree in the front yard), but without regular access to the roof it would be hard to install and maintain even an 80ft Alpha Delta DX-CC that's made for 80m. While I began on HF with an MFJ "Big Stick" portable vertical in the back yard to which I've attached further radials (and still like it for certain applications like 10m DXing to Europe), I don't think that the bigger vertical antennas, particularly those that work on 80m would be a practical fit into the yard, with our without radials.

An NVIS setup would have pros and cons like any other choice, but assuming the height and space limitations, plus the fact that I'll be using 100w max for at least the short term (I'll consider adding a 600w amplifier later after I've maximized the effectiveness of antennas, etc.), I think that I'd probably do best to focus on connecting with stations within the 2-400 mile radius (of which there are many) as opposed to hit and miss comms with stations in a slightly wider transmit area. I'd primarily check into the net described at http://www.ontars.com/
and the 8pm Great Lakes Emergency and Traffic Net, that seems to be achievable at this time of the year with my dipole, but I'm not always clearly readable. While I don't think that I could cover the entire area covered by either net (the NCS for GLETN last night was in Michigan's Upper Peninsula), a fairly predicable ability to connect to the local stations would give me lots of people to talk to and possibly be valuable in any local/regional emergency or power outage. There is also a daily 9:30am province wide Communications Ontario Net on 7.153Mhz and Provincial ARES HF net at 1pm Sundays on 7.080 that I check into with my current setup, but I'd try the NVIS option as well to compare and determine which is most effective.

Perhaps the antenna set up I linked to could be attached to a longer wire that could be worked around the yard, but I am restricted by other power lines along both sides of the yard, sheds, and regularly travelled areas. If I were to get backup power for my 897D (either the battery kit or some 7amp/h batteries), I could possibly also play around with the set up in a nearby park that's a bit over 100 acres in size.

There's obviously lots of noise associated with all of the electrical appliances and power lines in what's close to a downtown urban core, but there's no tall buildings within my immediate vicinity and Lake Ontario is just 10 minutes walk to the South. I hope that provides a better idea of what I'm working with and my rationale for taking on NVIS as a possible solution towards utilizing 80m.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 11, 2015, 06:26:48 PM
I would plan on using the antenna stationary in the back yard or set up as a portable whenever I might have a chance during trips out of the city or for ARES, etc. In the backyard I've got about 50ft from a tree in the northwest corner to which my dipole is currently attached at about 20-25ft to a balcony at the rear of the house from which the other side of the dipole is attached at approximately 17 feet from the ground. I also have the option of tying the dipole to a supporting post at the east side of the house at approximately 8-10 feet. Right now the room is just big enough for the DX-EE dipole and with luck I might get it a few feet higher yet, but at one harmonic below 80m and probably radiating a bit more to the east and west than north/south, I sure hope that I can improve both my transmissions and receptions to the latter areas. I tried measuring out the rest of the lot (imagine the dipole going over the house to a tall tree in the front yard), but without regular access to the roof it would be hard to install and maintain even an 80ft Alpha Delta DX-CC that's made for 80m. While I began on HF with an MFJ "Big Stick" portable vertical in the back yard to which I've attached further radials (and still like it for certain applications like 10m DXing to Europe), I don't think that the bigger vertical antennas, particularly those that work on 80m would be a practical fit into the yard, with our without radials.

An NVIS setup would have pros and cons like any other choice, but assuming the height and space limitations, plus the fact that I'll be using 100w max for at least the short term (I'll consider adding a 600w amplifier later after I've maximized the effectiveness of antennas, etc.), I think that I'd probably do best to focus on connecting with stations within the 2-400 mile radius (of which there are many) as opposed to hit and miss comms with stations in a slightly wider transmit area. I'd primarily check into the net described at http://www.ontars.com/
and the 8pm Great Lakes Emergency and Traffic Net, that seems to be achievable at this time of the year with my dipole, but I'm not always clearly readable. While I don't think that I could cover the entire area covered by either net (the NCS for GLETN last night was in Michigan's Upper Peninsula), a fairly predicable ability to connect to the local stations would give me lots of people to talk to and possibly be valuable in any local/regional emergency or power outage. There is also a daily 9:30am province wide Communications Ontario Net on 7.153Mhz and Provincial ARES HF net at 1pm Sundays on 7.080 that I check into with my current setup, but I'd try the NVIS option as well to compare and determine which is most effective.

Perhaps the antenna set up I linked to could be attached to a longer wire that could be worked around the yard, but I am restricted by other power lines along both sides of the yard, sheds, and regularly travelled areas. If I were to get backup power for my 897D (either the battery kit or some 7amp/h batteries), I could possibly also play around with the set up in a nearby park that's a bit over 100 acres in size.

There's obviously lots of noise associated with all of the electrical appliances and power lines in what's close to a downtown urban core, but there's no tall buildings within my immediate vicinity and Lake Ontario is just 10 minutes walk to the South. I hope that provides a better idea of what I'm working with and my rationale for taking on NVIS as a possible solution towards utilizing 80m.

The item that you linked to is just a base coil for a mobile antenna and I don't think it is up to your planed use. As far as an 80 meter antenna and you lot dimensions...they draw antennas in straight lines because straight lines are easier to draw..You can hang a dipole as a folded antenna with very little de-tuning as long as the folded areas are TWO FEET or more separated.
The antenna can fit you lot (in my head) without much problem and does not have to be in any special 'pattern' though you might want to start with say 10% more length than is typical and trim to length for the primary part of the band and use a tuner if covering more than one band ( 80 meters ...start with about 78 to 80 feet on each half of the dipole and fold it to fit you area ,the trim to tune )

This sight has a coil more like you may want for mobile or stationary and even whip or wire antennas:

http://wolfrivercoils.com/products/sb_1000.php

The one you listed was just for the CHAMELON Mobile ANTENNA is OK but it's just a 5 to 1 transformer and is not very adaptable to other antennas. It also is over $200 and the Wolf River coil is tuneable and only $60. Were you looking for a mobile or stationary option...or BOTH like the Wolf river..they have several different coil styles and capabilities...remember though a vertical is a POOR CHOICE FOR NVIS and if NVIS is in your plans a horizontal wire within 10 to 15 feet of the ground is optimal.

For portable ...I would screw the coil into a 3/8 x 24 mount and attach a wire at least 30 feet long to toss into a tree,you might benefit from a counterpoise wire also attached to the vehicle body with a gator clip or similar device.

I think if you look again and get past the STRAIGHT ANTENNA idea that you will find a way to "L" or fold the full size dipole within the space that you have as my yard is 50 x 55 FEET total and fits an 80 meter almost looped in a square at 10 feet above the ground...works NVIS and DX is good when the band is open.

Since an 80 meter antenna should be at over 60 feet above ground...most antennas are actually NVIS on 80 meters anyway.  :)

See if something I suggest helps and I will be glad to go again if you don't like something I suggested...we may come up with a acceptable answer at a reasonable price point to boot.

You may,depending on you current antenna,just add some more length to what you have and a change of direction to fit your lot just fine.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Canadian Prepper on January 12, 2015, 06:33:56 AM
Thanks for such a detailed reply Carl!

So in short the Chameleon set I linked to is simply the base for a mobile antenna that comes with a 30ft wire to alternately serve as a makeshift wire antenna that can be strung low to act as an NVIS emitter. But even at that the 30ft wire is hardly ideal to maximize efficiency of transmission at 80m, and probably wouldn't work much differently than if I mounted my current dipole at 10ft, which would mess up it's effectiveness as a dipole for regular use on the higher bands, that I still want to have it set up for.

So the other option for 80m would be to get something like a far cheaper full length 80/40m dipole that measures approx. 135 feet, and in my case zigzag it over the back yard at about 10-12 feet, in which case that should give me more efficient transmission on 80 and 40m to a radius of 2-400miles around my QTH (the MFJ 1779B goes for $60 up here). If the 135 foot wire is too long, I could consider something more along the lines of an 80ft shortened dipole like an MFJ 17758 (82ft for $100) or perhaps an Alpha-Delta DX-DD (82ft 80/40 dipole for $145). Given the cost differences, it would seem worth the trouble to try to work out a way to zigzag the longer wire across the backyard once more and show some ingenuity over simply throwing out more cash. I'm hoping that I could get away with not adding a balun, as that would add another $40 plus to the cost of the cheaper dipoles.

The link to the Chameleon antenna probably made my posts sound as if I were interested in mobile operation, but in reality I just want something to let me effectively communicate with the 80m stations around here without putting up a vertical or relying upon my 40m dipole set at approximately 17-20 ft. While it got good reviews online, at over $200 it seemed like a rather pricey proposition to take on without digging deeper into the subject.

All this begs the further question as to whether or not I ought to get a decent antenna analyzer, as I'll probably end up with three or four HF antennas (dipole, MFJ Mini-Dipole and Big Stick Vertical, one or two VHF/UHF antennas and perhaps other HF options) and would do better to adjust them to resonance than throw away more money at other equipment. Figuring out how to consistently hear and communicate with my local 80m stations remains a priority in any event.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on January 12, 2015, 06:58:17 AM
I'm hoping that I could get away with not adding a balun, as that would add another $40 plus to the cost of the cheaper dipoles.
When the RF choke on my 17758 80/40 trap dipole went bad a couple of months ago (MFJ-915, the only one of their products I've ever had fail, btw), I tried running (a) without, (b) with clip-on ferrite chokes, (c) an "ugly balun."  I had so many *ahem* comments from the neighbors and within my own household about RFI that I finally broke down and bought another 915.  I did put a little more effort into weather sealing it this time.  At least in this case, the $30 was worth the peace and quiet.

BTW, things were fine on 40m, but when I tuned up on 80m the complaints began.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Canadian Prepper on January 12, 2015, 07:14:57 AM
So far I get along quite nicely with the neighbours, including a landlord and other tenants that are quite supportive of my hobby.

I've just come across another option from Chameleon Antennas, which looks as though it would be fairly easy to set up in the yard for EMCOMM use and pack for travel or ARES work: http://chameleonantenna.com/BASE%20ANTENNA/CHA%20EMCOMM%20II/CHA%20EMCOMM%20II.html

It's more reasonably priced and could probably be mounted in the yard fairly easily in an L shape with a counterpoise wire beneath it, though I wonder if the longer wire of a 135ft dipole would be worth the additional effectiveness and resonance at 80m. The shorter antenna posted above would however be much easier to set up and take down.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 12, 2015, 07:17:09 AM
Thanks for such a detailed reply Carl!

So in short the Chameleon set I linked to is simply the base for a mobile antenna that comes with a 30ft wire to alternately serve as a makeshift wire antenna that can be strung low to act as an NVIS emitter. But even at that the 30ft wire is hardly ideal to maximize efficiency of transmission at 80m, and probably wouldn't work much differently than if I mounted my current dipole at 10ft, which would mess up it's effectiveness as a dipole for regular use on the higher bands, that I still want to have it set up for.

So the other option for 80m would be to get something like a far cheaper full length 80/40m dipole that measures approx. 135 feet, and in my case zigzag it over the back yard at about 10-12 feet, in which case that should give me more efficient transmission on 80 and 40m to a radius of 2-400miles around my QTH (the MFJ 1779B goes for $60 up here). If the 135 foot wire is too long, I could consider something more along the lines of an 80ft shortened dipole like an MFJ 17758 (82ft for $100) or perhaps an Alpha-Delta DX-DD (82ft 80/40 dipole for $145). Given the cost differences, it would seem worth the trouble to try to work out a way to zigzag the longer wire across the backyard once more and show some ingenuity over simply throwing out more cash. I'm hoping that I could get away with not adding a balun, as that would add another $40 plus to the cost of the cheaper dipoles.

The link to the Chameleon antenna probably made my posts sound as if I were interested in mobile operation, but in reality I just want something to let me effectively communicate with the 80m stations around here without putting up a vertical or relying upon my 40m dipole set at approximately 17-20 ft. While it got good reviews online, at over $200 it seemed like a rather pricey proposition to take on without digging deeper into the subject.

All this begs the further question as to whether or not I ought to get a decent antenna analyzer, as I'll probably end up with three or four HF antennas (dipole, MFJ Mini-Dipole and Big Stick Vertical, one or two VHF/UHF antennas and perhaps other HF options) and would do better to adjust them to resonance than throw away more money at other equipment. Figuring out how to consistently hear and communicate with my local 80m stations remains a priority in any event.

The full size dipole is OK without a BALUN,but I prefer a balun to help prevent interference in the house due to RF on the feed line.
If you use a full size dipole ,you get most effective antenna as size does matter,a shortened antenna works ,but we want every advantage we can get as at the high angle of NVIS not as much bounces back to earth,either way ( TX or RX)

Using a 600 watt amplifier will make about 1 "S" unit more than a 100 watt radio,you can get MORE than that with a full size dipole verses a shortened dipole...PLUS you will also improve receive capability. Extra power is rarely the fix ,especially when it comes to NVIS.

You are trying to skip a stone on a lake ( I know ICE makes that easy for you) and throwing a round stone does not work so good...throwing it harder....still not so good...BUT select the right stone and you can bounce the stone well.

If your current antenna works on 80 meters ...placing it at 10 feet or so above ground will get your take off angle to a point that it will bounce at the higher angle that you need for 'local' communications (but it will still do well for DX when propagation is good) The angle is more important than how hard you throw(how much power you use) as angle gives much more return than power.

I am leaving the decision as to what to do ,up to you,as armchair direction often can cause animosity when unicorns don't work every time. I just want to hopefully explain the advantages of your options and let you decide what to try as even the conductivity of you soil will effect your results.

Attached is a image (click on it to go and be able to enlarge a magazine article) and see the BENT antenna option explained in a manner better than I can do it. I will ride this out and eventually I too may benefit from your results. (I am glad that you didn't waste $200 on what would not have helped your situation)


(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q639/kb5wmy/Bent_Dipole_zps86f71216.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/kb5wmy/media/Bent_Dipole_zps86f71216.jpg.html)


Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 12, 2015, 07:25:14 AM
So far I get along quite nicely with the neighbours, including a landlord and other tenants that are quite supportive of my hobby.

I've just come across another option from Chameleon Antennas, which looks as though it would be fairly easy to set up in the yard for EMCOMM use and pack for travel or ARES work: http://chameleonantenna.com/BASE%20ANTENNA/CHA%20EMCOMM%20II/CHA%20EMCOMM%20II.html

It's more reasonably priced and could probably be mounted in the yard fairly easily in an L shape with a counterpoise wire beneath it, though I wonder if the longer wire of a 135ft dipole would be worth the additional effectiveness and resonance at 80m. The shorter antenna posted above would however be much easier to set up and take down.

That is a 60 foot long antenna (wire) and a balun (5 to 1) that you can make yourself for way less money,though it is only HALF an antenna (that needs an additional 60 foot ground side wire to work)and will not improve your situation without making it into the SAME THING that I have described at several times the cost. You will benefit from a full length dipole and a ONE TO ONE Balun will improve feed and negate interference. You are not in the market for a COMPROMISE ,you need best results with budget in mind(you have so far only linked to smaller,less effective,more costly options...ALAN thanks for joining the thread as we try to get an effective option set up for CanPrep.

Please understand CP ,your linked options are good antennas...BUT YOU NEED A GREAT ANTENNA for a specific purpose and that is not always the costliest option...though getting to the best is often an expensive trip ,unless we get you to skip some less than stellar side trips on the path to performance.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Canadian Prepper on January 12, 2015, 11:39:22 PM
Thanks Carl and Alan for all of your input, which will definitely shape my next course of action.

I think that I'll embark upon a two pronged plan. First I'll need to figure out whether or not I could get my current dipole up to about 30 feet, as it will be close enough to a half-wave on 20m to work nicely from that band and upwards. Judging from it's current performance on 40m, I'll probably be very happy on that band as well and would expect improvement on 80m, but at one harmonic below resonance I'll consider it a compromise situation. The 10 foot top bars on chain link fences go for about $10 up here, so we may be talking about a $50 fix and a couple hours work to get there.

I'll also get a second dipole (the 135ft MFJ 80/40m one for $60) plus a balun, which in all reality I'd eventually have been bound to get, and will set it up at about 10ft, zigzagged across the yard. That will hopefully work nicely for the local 40 and 80m nets, and I think that I'll learn a great deal from the experience. At least it will be easy to experiment and move things around a bit with the antenna so close to the ground, whereas it would be quite frustrating to set up a 135ft dipole higher up in my QTH, especially if I have to bend it all over the place and have to take it down if it doesn't work out or needs maintenance. Further, given that I'm working from a very urbanized area, I'd be curious to see whether or not NVIS helps with getting my signal beyond all of the noise associated with it.

The next step will probably be to get an antenna analyzer so that I could confirm the effects of positioning upon the effectiveness of the dipoles (plus the SWR on my MFJ HF Big Stick and Hustler dual bander), and then play around with adjusting the dipoles if and as required. The Alpha Delta DX-EE appears to be almost spot on for resonance in 10 and 15m, but might need some adjusting on 20 and 40 to get them into resonance at the preferred portion of the band, and the chances are high that the MFJ dipole will also be a bit on the long side and benefit from some trimming.

If everything goes well up to that point I'll consider other antenna options, such as a vertical installed upon the roof with appropriate counterpoises, etc., but only once I'm used to adjusting things with an SWR meter. Perhaps a small directional antenna would be a longer term option as well, but that's getting way beyond this thread.

I appreciate the comments about the limitations of amplifiers which correspond with most of what I've read elsewhere and observed from people using them on the air, and you can rest assured that I was only thinking of it as an option after I've gotten pretty good at understanding how to get the best out of an antenna and am satisfied that I've done all that I can in that regard. While my Canadian License is generous with granting all band privileges simply on account of scoring over 80% on our equivalent of your Technical exam, I'd be limited in my current class to 560W PEP and would probably settle for a 600w amplifier that I could pull out on occasion as required. OTOH if I'm satisfied enough with performance at 100w after playing around a great deal with antennas over the next several months or longer, I'll probably just settle for that. During today's provincial 40m net, someone in Ottawa heard me trying to check in when I had forgotten to turn the power up from 10 to 100W after tuning at a nearby frequency, and I've had a fairly lengthy QSO a few weeks ago with someone in Texas using 5W on 10m from what sounded like a really serious antenna setup. The past several weeks has seen great improvement in my ability to make contacts across numerous bands as I've finally caught the bug of experimentation, and that's what got me more interested in finally figuring out how to succeed on the 80m band.

Thanks again for all of the pointers and saving me from spending some decent coin on what would have been substandard equipment for my particular needs.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 13, 2015, 05:05:12 AM
Can Prep....I just wish this section of this thread and our antenna discussion could have been a separate thread so others could benefit, The antenna analyzer is a awesome tool that often sees little use once the "NEW" is dimmed a bit. I suggest you don't be consumed with SWR beyond a point of safety for your radio (about 2 to 1 ) and work towards discovery of why a properly cut antenna is detuned by surroundings. (I had an old "T" post closeline that resonated on 20 meters and caused no end to scratching my head on my directional inverted "V" antenna. Putting insulators on the wire clothesline cured the problem)
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: armymars on January 14, 2015, 10:39:53 AM
  An 80 meter antenna works OK on 80 and ten meters. If you want it to work on 40, make it a fan dipole or add decoupling stubs. On 40 meters the impedance is about 2000 ohms.  The stubs are two 1/4 wave pieces of wire solder to the tips of the antenna and run back along the antenna toward the feed. There should be as little spacing between the antenna and the stub as possible. 73
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 14, 2015, 12:53:37 PM
I hate to throw more confusion in BUT a Delta Loop or full size loop antenna both provide some GAIN,even as NVIS) though they do take up some space.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on January 18, 2015, 11:10:10 AM
Who's up for a test today at 1CST
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 18, 2015, 11:12:03 AM
Who's up for a test today at 1CST

Yes, waiting to see who else comes along...meet in the chat room a little early.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on January 18, 2015, 11:35:30 AM
Yes, waiting to see who else comes along...meet in the chat room a little early.
I'm in.  PSK31 this week?
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on January 18, 2015, 12:35:27 PM
Good success today!  Talked to Carl very clearly on 40m.  I kept my power at 100w, but he was able to turn down to 20w and still be heard clearly.  Then talked briefly with Canadian Prepper on 20m.  The band fluctuated a bit, but it started off quite clearly.

Even though we'd talked about doing PSK31 today, voice worked well enough.  We are getting somewhere.  8)
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 18, 2015, 12:54:40 PM
Good success today!  Talked to Carl very clearly on 40m.  I kept my power at 100w, but he was able to turn down to 20w and still be heard clearly.  Then talked briefly with Canadian Prepper on 20m.  The band fluctuated a bit, but it started off quite clearly.

Even though we'd talked about doing PSK31 today, voice worked well enough.  We are getting somewhere.  8)

Canadian prepper sounded good to me also ,But heard Alan better . The magic of the either.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Canadian Prepper on January 18, 2015, 07:23:38 PM
I'm going to keep working on the NVIS side of things, but a 20m national TSP net might eventually be the best bet for communicating amongst forum members. The antennas are small enough and work reasonably well at reasonable mounting heights that most hams and SW Listeners should be able to set them up, and might still work well on a few other bands.

Back to another idea brought up in the chat room and worth raising here in the dual context of NVIS and more conventional setups, I like the idea of putting together some form of end fed 67ft wire with appropriate counterpoise as an antenna that might either be thrown high in a tree or set closer to ground for NVIS use. It certainly shouldn't be too difficult to bend the wire around at heights of less than 10ft to fit a resonant or easily tunable 80/40m wire even within relatively limited space, and it would be much easier to get a single wire high into a tree than to set up a more permanent dipole arrangement.

So it might come down to getting a handful of ceramic insulators, baluns and wire to put together some cheap and easy dipoles and wires for both low angle and NVIS set ups...... I'm getting excited thinking about it.

My landlord just told me after our contact that he wants to do some work on our roof next month and that it would be a good time to install any antennas or wires up there, so I'll probably be able to set up a good, high and resonant antenna for the lower bands, but in the meantime still hope to play around with wires closer to earth.

I'll probably have some more questions for Carl about how the end fed wire ought to look after going through his comments and some web searches. I've also got an MFJ 949E tuner that I thought I should mention in case that provides more options for single wire setups.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on January 18, 2015, 09:13:48 PM
Not to distract from this ^^^^^ but too continue today's ham test..

CP ask Carl to send you his PDF of Katrina...

Carl, I listened to the Katrina PDF very cool.
Can you tell me the context of the people.....as in location from you?

Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on January 18, 2015, 10:31:50 PM
Canadian prepper sounded good to me also ,But heard Alan better . The magic of the either.
Yeah, 40m NVIS was boomin' today.  Did you hear me on 20m as well?  I've had 20m QSOs as close as 350 miles, but that was pretty unusual.

... but a 20m national TSP net might eventually be the best bet for communicating amongst forum members.
CP, think of it as concentric circles for coverage by the different bands.  NVIS 80m makes the solid bullseye (at least at night), NVIS 40m can reach out maybe 500 miles, 20m skips over most of that and picks up in a ring around that out to maybe 1000 miles, then 10m picks it up there.  Of course, these are only rough numbers, and a lot will depend on the time of day and the state of the ionosphere.  (And of course, there are other intermediate bands, 15m, 17m, etc., but let's neglect those for the minute.)  One band won't cover all of North America, all at once.  But we may be able to coordinate some kind of relays, or maybe do different bands at different times.  Perhaps 40m at the top of the hour, 20m at the 15 after mark, and 10m at the bottom of the hour.  Or something like that, I'm just spitballing.  (Ideas?  Carl?  Anybody else?)

Also, in a few years 10m skywave propagation will mostly go away as the current solar maximum fades, and also it goes away each summer too.  We ought to have at least a couple more good winters though.

Anyway CP, it was a pleasure to speak directly with you today, and it sounds like you have a really cool landlord.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 19, 2015, 04:57:00 AM
Not to distract from this ^^^^^ but too continue today's ham test..

CP ask Carl to send you his PDF of Katrina...

Carl, I listened to the Katrina PDF very cool.
Can you tell me the context of the people.....as in location from you?

Chad , that happened on the fourth day of nearly 24 hour a day operation . The wife of a Doctor called in frantic as she had just talked to her husband who told her he was likely to die before help came. You see he was part of the medical staff of the parish prison in New Orleans (almost 200 miles away from me in a radio dark zone, to far for VHF/too close for HF to be heard)and the rescue effort had already marked that site as EMPTY due to evac of all guards and prisoners. The tough part was to convince a recruiter in Ohio to call his SON on the scene with satellite phone as he was directing some of the helicopter rescue efforts.

  The call had gone through HF and VHF also,but it was text on echo link ( a Ham voip site) that got a reply from the recruiter who passed info to his son and the results ...what recorded as a few short minutes actually took place over 6 hours. It was such a rough day that I was totally spent after the call came of SUCCESS! TWENTY ONE PEOPLE WERE RESCUED!
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 19, 2015, 05:10:09 AM
Yeah, 40m NVIS was boomin' today.  Did you hear me on 20m as well?  I've had 20m QSOs as close as 350 miles, but that was pretty unusual.
CP, think of it as concentric circles for coverage by the different bands.  NVIS 80m makes the solid bullseye (at least at night), NVIS 40m can reach out maybe 500 miles, 20m skips over most of that and picks up in a ring around that out to maybe 1000 miles, then 10m picks it up there.  Of course, these are only rough numbers, and a lot will depend on the time of day and the state of the ionosphere.  (And of course, there are other intermediate bands, 15m, 17m, etc., but let's neglect those for the minute.)  One band won't cover all of North America, all at once.  But we may be able to coordinate some kind of relays, or maybe do different bands at different times.  Perhaps 40m at the top of the hour, 20m at the 15 after mark, and 10m at the bottom of the hour.  Or something like that, I'm just spitballing.  (Ideas?  Carl?  Anybody else?)

Also, in a few years 10m skywave propagation will mostly go away as the current solar maximum fades, and also it goes away each summer too.  We ought to have at least a couple more good winters though.

Anyway CP, it was a pleasure to speak directly with you today, and it sounds like you have a really cool landlord.


Alan , I think we are off to a good start with the CHAT ROOM to co-ordinate and get more involved. HF is rarely a point to point solution and most nets have multiple control stations for that reason...you see COMMUNITY IS THE ANSWER AGAIN!
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on January 24, 2015, 02:16:43 PM

Alan , I think we are off to a good start with the CHAT ROOM to co-ordinate and get more involved. HF is rarely a point to point solution and most nets have multiple control stations for that reason...you see COMMUNITY IS THE ANSWER AGAIN!




Tread bump, and some info.

Got my antenna up.. 60 ft on top of the fence and 17 ft on the bottom.

All are welcome to join in:  Sunday's @ 1 PM CST meet in the chat room.

Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 24, 2015, 02:32:54 PM
I hope you don't absorb all of the RF... ;)
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on January 24, 2015, 03:48:46 PM
I hope you don't absorb all of the RF... ;)


I hope so...also, just to boost my odds me and boy (dog) will be wearing lead shorts ;D
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 24, 2015, 03:54:10 PM

I hope so...also, just to boost my odds me and boy (dog) will be wearing lead shorts ;D

I invited a few others to join in with the chat room so maybe we can get some more activity on both RF and Chat.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: radiomacgyver on January 25, 2015, 07:18:47 AM
Is there a net today? Sorry I've been "off the grid".

RM
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 25, 2015, 07:43:50 AM
Is there a net today? Sorry I've been "off the grid".

RM

YES,we plan to co-ordinate and visit on TSP CHAT while we do the 1 PM CST net on 40 and 20 meters and ? Alan usually take lead and any are welcome on radio or chat ...CQ TSP is the call though little discussion of TSP takes place on the air for those who are security minded and Ham Calls are normally not mentioned in reports here in the forum ,just a name and or state or city.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on January 25, 2015, 08:25:24 AM
Is there a net today? Sorry I've been "off the grid".
You bet, and no problem.

Last week 7.275 worked well for 40m.  On the other hand, 14.315 was too close to the nuthouse frequency 14.313, which was my bad, because 14.320 was clear too.  Let's start there, and coordinate via the chatroom if those frequencies are busy.  Want to add a 10m session?  There's a good chance Carl and I could get coverage waaaay out west with that.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 25, 2015, 08:56:02 AM
You bet, and no problem.

Last week 7.275 worked well for 40m.  On the other hand, 14.315 was too close to the nuthouse frequency 14.313, which was my bad, because 14.320 was clear too.  Let's start there, and coordinate via the chatroom if those frequencies are busy.  Want to add a 10m session?  There's a good chance Carl and I could get coverage waaaay out west with that.

Hey,go for it . I would add calls on any band you wish,or is requested...I don't do 80 meter well lately ,but no reason not to kick up some TSP dust there too. Ten meters will bounce farther because of the angle required for it to reflect back to earth. Which is why 80 and 40 (plus 60) are about the BEST NVIS, hard angle bounce bands.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on January 25, 2015, 09:03:06 AM
Today's forecast:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/solar101sc-1php.gif)

And here's the band-by-band forecast:
40 meters:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/m40.png)

20 meters:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/m20.png)

10 meters:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/m10.png)

A few notes on the modeling:
- overall forecast from preparedham.com's splash page, band-by-band from voacap.com
- for voacap input, sunspot number = 57 today, SSB, horizontal dipoles at 33ft, and power at 25w.  Most of us run 100w, but I've found these predictions too optimistic, but 6 dB down is about right.  Also, voacap drops things down by 20% from whatever you enter.
- the modeling's centered on Baton Rouge, between Carl and me, so it's close enough to count as either one of us.  Coverage is reciprocal.  Also, if you're in the CONUS, use your mind's eye to slide the coverage patches around on the map to center on your location and you can visualize your coverage.  Well, at least close enough.
- I've seen better performance on 10m, but the sun's kind of quiet today.  We'll do what we can do.  Smurf, Chem, FreeLancer, any of you guys in?
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on January 25, 2015, 09:34:13 AM
Hey,go for it . I would add calls on any band you wish,or is requested...I don't do 80 meter well lately ,but no reason not to kick up some TSP dust there too. Ten meters will bounce farther because of the angle required for it to reflect back to earth. Which is why 80 and 40 (plus 60) are about the BEST NVIS, hard angle bounce bands.
Hey, this is all looking pretty good.  80m is more of a nighttime thing for NVIS; if I can reach someone on 80m during the day, we'd probably do better on 2m!

OK, I'm going to call out some times and tentative frequencies.  We'll coordinate frequencies via the chatroom to get around any other traffic that may pop up.  If anyone sees a problem with these, please post.

1:00 CST: 40m 7.275 LSB
1:15 CST: 20m 14.320 USB
1:30 CST: 10m 28.570 USB

All of these are in the General part of the bands, including the 10m frequency.  If anybody wants to move that down to the Tech part of the band (28.3-28.5 MHz), speak up.  Mostly I picked 28.570 to get out of the Tech DX clutter.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 25, 2015, 01:25:02 PM
Had lot of fun,worked Alan with strong signals on 40 meters and added a Hot Springs Ark station to book.
Heard a bit of Alan on 20 meters and that is rare. Talked to Vancouver and Toronto Canada before I could get away for PSK testing.

And worked an Illinois station on 20 meter PSK at 599 (signals don't get better than that) for a bit ...then worked Baton Rouge on 6 meters and TWO meters for points (for them) in a contest running today.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on January 25, 2015, 01:49:05 PM
Carl, on 7275 I heard: "25 miles north west".... Alan said it was you, so I guess that's a contact!
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 25, 2015, 03:37:24 PM
It was me ,Talking to Hot Springs Arkansas
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on January 25, 2015, 05:25:52 PM
I was having fun with S8 noise down here.  Carl, is it true that cold, dry wind behind a front causes background noise?

Still, all a fun, partial success.  Learning more each week.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 25, 2015, 05:37:05 PM
I was having fun with S8 noise down here.  Carl, is it true that cold, dry wind behind a front causes background noise?

Still, all a fun, partial success.  Learning more each week.

YEP, and nature made noise tends to be heaviest in the daylight with wind static and ,believe it on not celestial noise (from the stars ,our sun is one of them stars) But it was fun...had many stations calling me from Canada ,Illinois ,and Hot Springs...worked the radio for an hour or so then back to the Peppermint Mines....
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on January 25, 2015, 06:17:51 PM
It was me ,Talking to Hot Springs Arkansas

That's cool, in the HAM world is that considered a contact?
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on January 25, 2015, 08:43:18 PM
YEP, and nature made noise tends to be heaviest in the daylight with wind static and ,believe it on not celestial noise (from the stars ,our sun is one of them stars)
Thanks!  Sure explains a lot.  It was about the steadiest noise I've ever heard, without the usual harsh notes from man-made noise.  Windy, dry, sunny, that was today.

Quote
But it was fun...had many stations calling me from Canada ,Illinois ,and Hot Springs...worked the radio for an hour or so then back to the Peppermint Mines....
8)
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on January 26, 2015, 01:26:32 AM
That's cool, in the HAM world is that considered a contact?

Usually a contact has been made when both side exchange call signs and some other piece of data like their state or grid square ,or signal report.(5X9)
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on January 26, 2015, 06:19:09 AM
Good conditions yesterday.  Today, Monday, not so good:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/solar101sc-2php.gif)

Even the ionosphere has a case of the Mondays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AB9zPfXqQQ
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on February 01, 2015, 12:57:32 PM
I am guessing,like most of the world,the Super Bowl has pre-empted life and Ham radio.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on February 01, 2015, 01:10:50 PM
For some, for me it's the 6 inches of global warming on the ground and 6 more on the way :'(
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on February 01, 2015, 01:25:16 PM
For some, for me it's the 6 inches of global warming on the ground and 6 more on the way :'(

Snoow can cause 'sparkles' of static at times as it is DRY and I used to enjoy hearing it when I was a Short Wave Listener living in Colorado and Washington DC. Here in Louisiana ,snow is wet and often muddy.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on February 01, 2015, 01:36:20 PM
Snoow can cause 'sparkles' of static at times as it is DRY and I used to enjoy hearing it when I was a Short Wave Listener living in Colorado and Washington DC. Here in Louisiana ,snow is wet and often muddy.


Ill turn it on and give it a listen..
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on February 01, 2015, 02:29:11 PM
I am guessing,like most of the world,the Super Bowl has pre-empted life and Ham radio.
Impromptu, suddenly urgent nap following an evening of parade-watching and pub-crawiling in the Quarter last night...
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on February 01, 2015, 02:32:56 PM
Impromptu, unplanned, suddenly urgent nap following an evening of parade-watching and pub-crawiling in the Quarter last night...

The dawg ate my antenna,and other excuses,I am sure will follow.....I guess everyone just needed a day off

(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q639/kb5wmy/BrandiAnt_zpswumlyism.jpg) (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/kb5wmy/media/BrandiAnt_zpswumlyism.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: armymars on February 02, 2015, 09:32:15 AM
 For band conditions like Sunday and Monday try PSK31. Lots of stations to the south of me. FL, TN, the Dominican Republic. I also worked Canada to the north. Four contacts in about 90 min.
  By the way is that a G5RV the dog ate? 73
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on February 02, 2015, 09:50:28 AM
G5RV , sort of ...it was a linear loaded dipole. a 70 foot per side dipole in only 30 feet per side length. I modified the design in this link.

http://www.af2cw.com/license/dipole.pdf

The dog thought it was a fun toy. It had worked pretty good till it got digested.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on February 07, 2015, 06:50:03 AM
OK...The Super Bowl is over,some dysfunction but no uniform malfunction. I am working at the BOL and look to have things in line for another antenna test and get-together on Sunday....anyone can come to the chat room and anyone can listen in of the HF bands as we do announce ,in the chat room,where we are testing the antennas.

about 1 PM CST check in with the chat room and join in on HF Ham.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on February 07, 2015, 07:30:06 AM
about 1 PM CST check in with the chat room and join in on HF Ham.

Definitely!
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on February 07, 2015, 08:28:10 AM
I'll be listening....
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on February 07, 2015, 08:31:34 AM
Great Chad,good to know you are doing OK.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on February 07, 2015, 08:42:56 AM
Doing good, ended up with about 13in of snow, even had to snowblow a patch in the backyard so the dog could do what dog's do!
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on February 08, 2015, 07:47:04 AM
Forecasts for today's net synchronized cat swimming:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/solar101sc-3php.gif)

40 meter LSB:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/m40-2-8.png)

20 meters USB:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/m20-2-8.png)

10 meters USB:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/m10-2-8.png)

The same old set of notes and disclaimers from two weeks ago still apply (scroll to the bottom of the post):
http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=50979.msg618365#msg618365

For starter frequencies here's the same set as before:
1:00 CST: 40m 7.275 LSB
1:15 CST: 20m 14.320 USB  (and stay away from 14.313, it's the FCC-designated troll freq)
1:30 CST: 10m 28.570 USB
We can refine what to actually use on the fly, via the chat room.


So much for SSB phone.  How many people have some PSK31 capability?  Those predictions look a tad sunnier:

40m psk31:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/p40-2-8.png)

20m psk31:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/p20-2-8.png)

10m psk31:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/p10-2-8.png)

Much more robust, but how many people have PSK31 on hand? (there's still time to download and sort it out on your smartphone or pad)  Also, if we do go with PSK31, I suggest that we step slightly away from the main calling frequencies.  It's not that I want to exclude anyone but rather, we're trying to make contact with each other.  Explaining what we're doing to all the folks looking for yet another LOTW confirmation sort of gets in the way.  I suggest we move up by 5KHz from the usual calling frequencies, i.e.: 7.085, 14.075, 28.125.

Note, this is IF we choose to do PSK31.  And it's just a suggestion.  Maybe we'll just stick to SSB phone today.  Comments?  Stick with SSB?
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on February 08, 2015, 08:49:57 AM
I tried downloading PSKer app but my iPhone's ios is not updated, I don't have a home computer to update my iso, is there a way to update my iso without a home computer?
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on February 08, 2015, 08:59:22 AM
I tried downloading PSKer app but my iPhone's ios is not updated, I don't have a home computer to update my iso, is there a way to update my iso without a home computer?

Well,that is not a big problem now Chad, as we are mostly using voice modes for now anyway because ,for voice a voice and a radio are all that is needed. But ,when you upgrade phones ,I would remember the extra utility you can get...for now ,it's not a big deal.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on February 08, 2015, 09:24:31 AM
I guess I could back my iphone up to Idrive or some cloud and then upgrade to the new iPhone and then download the stored data, I really do need a new phone.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on February 08, 2015, 09:29:39 AM
I guess I could back my iphone up to Idrive or some cloud and then upgrade to the new iPhone and then download the stored data, I really do need a new phone.

Don't do it just for the very minor utility of the PSK app, the risk of losing data is small,but BITES when it happens.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on February 08, 2015, 09:40:02 AM
If anything the PSKer app is the catalyst.. my iPhone is a hot mess.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on February 08, 2015, 12:37:23 PM
After action report: Good contact with Carl (300 miles away) on 40m, one other guy in south TX jumped in.  No contacts on 20m, nor 10m.

Back to the garden, the weather here is amazing.  73 deg, dry, and clear!
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on February 15, 2015, 08:16:42 AM
Not sure if cold weather will help today but I got it...-7 actual -26 wind chill
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on February 15, 2015, 08:23:38 AM
Not sure if cold weather will help today but I got it...-7 actual -26 wind chill

Tends to promote static , but that happens even at 50 degrees we have here today.
I plan to be there from the house rather that the BOL.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on February 15, 2015, 10:06:25 AM
switched my phone plan over to my sister's family plan, saving $70 a month and got a new phone...

I got the PSK31 app don't quite understand it, maybe we can try that today.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Canadian Prepper on February 15, 2015, 11:38:26 AM
I'll be listening from my QTH with the wire antenna. Fingers crossed that we'll be able to make contact.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on February 15, 2015, 11:43:50 AM
OK, same schedule as last week suit everybody?
Quote
For starter frequencies here's the same set as before:
1:00 CST: 40m 7.275 LSB
1:15 CST: 20m 14.320 USB  (and stay away from 14.313, it's the FCC-designated troll freq)
1:30 CST: 10m 28.570 USB
We can refine what to actually use on the fly, via the chat room.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on February 15, 2015, 11:54:06 AM
Just got in the hole,delayed so I will work from here.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on March 01, 2015, 01:43:49 PM
Went to the gun range today, I'll be ready to test next Sunday.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on March 01, 2015, 02:05:36 PM
Went to the gun range today, I'll be ready to test next Sunday.

I did the same as last week,waited in TSP chat...no one showed so I typed to Keebler for a bit.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on March 01, 2015, 05:34:38 PM
Went to the gun range today, I'll be ready to test next Sunday.
Likewise.   Had a class.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on March 07, 2015, 09:19:52 AM
bump....only to get more eye's on the post.

All are welcome, tomorrow @ 1 CST, meet up in the chat room.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on March 07, 2015, 10:20:44 AM
bump....only to get more eye's on the post.

All are welcome, tomorrow @ 1 CST, meet up in the chat room.

I plan to be there.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on March 07, 2015, 12:17:40 PM
I'll try to make it, looking about 70%-ish right now.  Here's the forecast:

40m
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/m40-3.png)

20m
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/m20-3.png)

10m
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/m10-3.png)

Hmm, that 10m doesn't look good at all.  Maybe stick to 40 & 20.  We've never had any 10m traffic anyway.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Canadian Prepper on March 09, 2015, 06:24:32 PM
Sorry folks, but I had a range day and much needed escape from the city on Sunday.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on March 09, 2015, 06:31:48 PM
Sorry folks, but I had a range day and much needed escape from the city on Sunday.

No big deal,we visit,shoot the bull and any are welcome.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: armymars on March 10, 2015, 05:53:12 PM
  OT I have a 1897 577 Martini Enfield, long lever, with solid head brass if you need me to shoot the bull. 750gr Barnes bullet at 1700 fps. The gun weighs 11 pounds, but it's not enough. Grin.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on March 10, 2015, 06:00:13 PM
I would rather use a knife to butcher it than to kill,cook,and quarter it with a firearm...all in one shot.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on March 10, 2015, 06:32:51 PM
  OT I have a 1897 577 Martini Enfield, long lever, with solid head brass if you need me to shoot the bull. 750gr Barnes bullet at 1700 fps. The gun weighs 11 pounds, but it's not enough. Grin.

Carl, it looks like we got more eye's on the Sunday 40 NVIS post....but... I'm not looking forward to "armymars" incoming 750gr transmission.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: armymars on March 11, 2015, 12:40:07 PM
  If we go PSK31 I promise to limit myself to 20 watts.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on March 13, 2015, 09:04:24 AM
Been reading up on psk31, it's range is 600-2300 HZ, last time we tried I think we tried feq 7.025 KHZ so I'd have dial the psk31 to feq 725 right?
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on March 13, 2015, 09:19:34 AM
Been reading up on psk31, it's range is 600-2300 HZ, last time we tried I think we tried feq 7.025 KHZ so I'd have dial the psk31 to feq 725 right?

Phase Shift Keying (PSK) is an audible ,narrow band signal. If I send at 14.070 and a PSK 'sound' at 2,000 ...then you will hear a 2000 HZ noise at 14.070. While I actually am sending at 14.072. If you tune exactly my frequency(14.072)...you hear NOTHING.

Link to see video.You hear PSK in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VtRBO_cBB8
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on March 13, 2015, 10:49:52 AM
Phase Shift Keying (PSK) is an audible ,narrow band signal. If I send at 14.070 and a PSK 'sound' at 2,000 ...then you will hear a 2000 HZ noise at 14.070. While I actually am sending at 14.072. If you tune exactly my frequency(14.072)...you hear NOTHING.

Link to see video.You hear PSK in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VtRBO_cBB8


That helped...

Let's see if I got this.

My SW radio is tuned to your feq and my psk31 is listening to my SW and I'm watching for a white line to cascading down the waterfall, then I click on the white line and pray..
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on March 13, 2015, 10:59:07 AM
That sounds right.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on March 13, 2015, 11:18:34 AM
That sounds right.


Ok, we'll test Sunday.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: armymars on March 13, 2015, 04:51:29 PM
  On 40 meters psk hangs out at 7.070 plus or minus.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on March 13, 2015, 06:22:34 PM
Phase Shift Keying (PSK) is an audible ,narrow band signal. If I send at 14.070 and a PSK 'sound' at 2,000 ...then you will hear a 2000 HZ noise at 14.070. While I actually am sending at 14.072. If you tune exactly my frequency(14.072)...you hear NOTHING.

Link to see video.You hear PSK in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VtRBO_cBB8

I'm confused again....

If you send at 14.070 (ham radio) is there a separate device that sends the PSK 'sound' or is that sound within the 14.070 ham transmission?


Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on March 13, 2015, 07:15:02 PM
I'm confused again....

If you send at 14.070 (ham radio) is there a separate device that sends the PSK 'sound' or is that sound within the 14.070 ham transmission?

The PSK tone is in the upper sideband of the 14.070 transmission.  In Carl's example, as he said, the tone will be at 14.072, but you tune for 14.070 and let the receiver's bandwidth scoop up the signal.

Let's back up for a minute.  Imagine you're listening to plain ol' broadcast AM radio, on say, 1.600 MHz (or as AM dials usually and equivalently put it, 1600 kHz).  There's an upper and a lower sideband that extends plus-or-minus about 4 khz, and those are what carry the sound.  So the whole signal runs from about 1.596 to 1.604 MHz.  You still set the receiver to 1.600 MHz, and let the bandwidth scoop up the rest of the signal.

In our ham radio case, you only have the upper sideband; no carrier, and no lower sideband.  What's more, instead of a bunch of frequencies containing a voice or something from nearly 0 up to say 3 kHz, there's only a narrow range (~35 Hz) of frequencies containing the PSK31 signal.  But it's still within the receiver's bandwidth at 14.072 MHz, and it still gets through the radio and into whatever digital processor you're using.  The radio's taking in everything from 14.070 up to about 14.073, and that's what's on the waterfall display.

Bottom line: set your receiver on 14.070 USB.  Open up any bandwidth filters fairly wide, say 3 kHz or so.  Listen for the whistling tones.  When you can receive those, pipe it into whatever you're using to decode.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on March 13, 2015, 08:18:56 PM
Phase Shift Keying (PSK) is an audible ,narrow band signal. If I send at 14.070 and a PSK 'sound' at 2,000 ...then you will hear a 2000 HZ noise at 14.070. While I actually am sending at 14.072. If you tune exactly my frequency(14.072)...you hear NOTHING.

Link to see video.You hear PSK in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VtRBO_cBB8


The PSK tone is in the upper sideband of the 14.070 transmission.  In Carl's example, as he said, the tone will be at 14.072, but you tune for 14.070 and let the receiver's bandwidth scoop up the signal.

Let's back up for a minute.  Imagine you're listening to plain ol' broadcast AM radio, on say, 1.600 MHz (or as AM dials usually and equivalently put it, 1600 kHz).  There's an upper and a lower sideband that extends plus-or-minus about 4 khz, and those are what carry the sound.  So the whole signal runs from about 1.596 to 1.604 MHz.  You still set the receiver to 1.600 MHz, and let the bandwidth scoop up the rest of the signal.

In our ham radio case, you only have the upper sideband; no carrier, and no lower sideband.  What's more, instead of a bunch of frequencies containing a voice or something from nearly 0 up to say 3 kHz, there's only a narrow range (~35 Hz) of frequencies containing the PSK31 signal.  But it's still within the receiver's bandwidth at 14.072 MHz, and it still gets through the radio and into whatever digital processor you're using.  The radio's taking in everything from 14.070 up to about 14.073, and that's what's on the waterfall display.

Bottom line: set your receiver on 14.070 USB.  Open up any bandwidth filters fairly wide, say 3 kHz or so.  Listen for the whistling tones.  When you can receive those, pipe it into whatever you're using to decode.

Thank you both, +2


I'll spend time  reading and rereading your posts, I should be up to speed Sunday.





Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on March 14, 2015, 06:55:44 PM
Tomorrow's forcast:

40m SSB:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/40m-ssb.png)

20m SSB:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/20m-ssb.png)


40m PSK31:(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/4om-psk.png)

20m PSK31:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/20m-psk.png) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/AlanGeorges/media/20m-psk.png.html)

So... ya wanna do PSK31?  Or stick to SSB?

If we go with PSK31, I suggest that we move off the main PSK frequencies by, say, 5kHz.  Do we even have enough PSK31-capable people out there to bother trying?
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on March 14, 2015, 07:02:32 PM
We are testing stuff,so let's not give up before we try ,remember NVIS is not normal propagation.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on March 14, 2015, 07:48:12 PM
Quote
we go with PSK31, I suggest that we move off the main PSK frequencies by, say, 5kHz.  Do we even have enough PSK31-capable people out there to bother trying?

Let's try...


Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on March 14, 2015, 10:19:16 PM
We are testing stuff,so let's not give up before we try ,remember NVIS is not normal propagation.
Hey, I wasn't saying "automatic fail, all quit and go home"!  I was just asking if anybody else here had PSK31 and would be listening.  I mean, I can always dial up a bunch of random 20m PSK contacts in Cuba anytime, but it's Y'ALL who I want to talk to.

OK, so...  let's do PSK31 tomorrow!
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on March 15, 2015, 08:35:35 AM
Tomorrow's forcast:

40m SSB:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/40m-ssb.png)

20m SSB:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/20m-ssb.png)


40m PSK31:(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/4om-psk.png)

20m PSK31:
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc502/AlanGeorges/20m-psk.png) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/AlanGeorges/media/20m-psk.png.html)

So... ya wanna do PSK31?  Or stick to SSB?

If we go with PSK31, I suggest that we move off the main PSK frequencies by, say, 5kHz.  Do we even have enough PSK31-capable people out there to bother trying?

How do you translate the maps?
If me in Michigan is blue or 0 to 10% that means what?
If me in Michigan is red or 90 to 100% that means what?
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on March 15, 2015, 08:52:28 AM
That is the % that signal can get from Alan to YOU.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on March 15, 2015, 09:12:37 AM
Percent probability of contact.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on March 15, 2015, 09:13:34 AM
Ok, so 20ssb and 20 psk31 is looking possible.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Smurf Hunter on March 16, 2015, 10:18:44 AM
In the last 24 hours I got on 20 meters at home.  I've got just about the cheapest/simplest wire antenna setup imaginable running inside my attic.  Apparently it was good enough to make a "5" signal report from a QSO in Long Beach, CA.   In the next few days I'll be stringing up wire length to cover 40m as well.  I also have a decent 4:1 balun on order that'll help a bit.

The 40m wire will take a bit more planning, as I don't have 70 linear feet, so will make some "W" or "Z" shaped pattern.
Here's a crude visual of what I'm doing:

(http://i.imgur.com/mhNYfeP.png)

If conditions are appropriate, I hope to join you all next time.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on March 16, 2015, 10:58:35 AM
Add a crystal to the middle and it could be a hood ornament for a German auto....
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on March 19, 2015, 06:28:06 PM
Won't be able to make this Sunday's session, as I have been given other plans.  See y'all next week!
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on March 28, 2015, 06:06:39 PM
March 29 may have me tied up with training someone to run something ,somewhere...will hit chat when I get freed up.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on March 29, 2015, 06:05:07 PM
Got tied up too.  Maybe next week.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on April 05, 2015, 08:32:21 AM
I think I'll have better success if I take all of my equipment outside, I think I'm getting interference from "stuff" in the house.

Should have a warm Sunday coming here soon.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on April 05, 2015, 09:05:44 AM
I'm not going to make it today.  Easter events intervene.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on April 05, 2015, 09:26:06 AM
I'm not going to make it today.  Easter events intervene.

I will share my flu with all the 'twice a year' family at my church.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Smurf Hunter on April 05, 2015, 01:50:07 PM
Heading out to the inlaws for easter supper.

One of these days...
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on April 26, 2015, 08:13:12 AM
Anybody up for a test today?

@1 CST
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Alan Georges on April 26, 2015, 08:26:06 AM
Anybody up for a test today?

@1 CST

Sounds good, I think I can make it this week.

Chad, did you get your RFI problems sorted out?  I just flipped on 14.070 USB, the 20m band PSK31 frequency, and it is very busy.  Can you hear those signals?

Carl, you up for a session?
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: Carl on April 26, 2015, 08:30:51 AM
I will give it a shot and jump into chat about that time...I go to BOL for a maintenance visit today and the antenna should be dry enough.
Title: Re: 40m NVIS for this coming Sunday
Post by: chad on April 26, 2015, 09:14:05 AM
I'm going to take my SW radio out side and turn off my inverter and any transformers not in use.
If I have any RFI problem this should fix it.