The Survival Podcast Forum

Finance and Economics => The Money Board => Topic started by: Richard (richard) on September 01, 2016, 08:34:05 AM

Title: cashless economy & greenbacks as black market currency
Post by: Richard (richard) on September 01, 2016, 08:34:05 AM
So we go cashless and paper currency and coins are no longer legal tender. Why could they not continued to be used in a black market economy? Does the absence of government legitimacy make a difference in street-side transactions? It's just paper.
Title: Re: cashless economy & greenbacks as black market currency
Post by: Carl on September 01, 2016, 09:27:19 AM
Because usually items used for trade have some intrinsic value, A dollar ,with no value,is just paper(actually linen)
Title: Re: cashless economy & greenbacks as black market currency
Post by: Smurf Hunter on September 01, 2016, 09:28:08 AM
So we go cashless and paper currency and coins are no longer legal tender. Why could they not continued to be used in a black market economy? Does the absence of government legitimacy make a difference in street-side transactions? It's just paper.

It could, but so could Chuck-e-Cheese game tokens.  All sides of a transaction must agree in the medium of exchange.

Hypothetically, if everyone involved in the black market economy still traded in greenbacks, that currency would still be diminished, as it could only work under the table.  You couldn't buy real estate, pay .gov fees, etc.

Today you can literally go anyplace in the world and buy stuff with USD currency.  USD is actually much more logistically preferred to gold or silver.
Try buying a beer and a sandwich with precious metals tomorrow.

Title: Re: cashless economy & greenbacks as black market currency
Post by: Richard (richard) on September 01, 2016, 07:11:47 PM
If USD is favored over p.metal, I'm wondering if it is even feasible for an economy such as ours with its' global coverage to even think about going cashless. Is digital cash, as in a complete transition from physical cash, even possible?
Title: Re: cashless economy & greenbacks as black market currency
Post by: Wild Colonial Boy on September 02, 2016, 02:19:15 AM
If USD is favored over p.metal, I'm wondering if it is even feasible for an economy such as ours with its' global coverage to even think about going cashless. Is digital cash, as in a complete transition from physical cash, even possible?

Yes we will transition to cashless tech driven society at some point.

At the extreme end....In Sweden right now only 2% of the economy is made up of physicial exchanges of money.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/04/sweden-cashless-society-cards-phone-apps-leading-europe

A step behind are the likes of Australia which commenced replacing"paper money" for polymer currency in the late 80's. This technology has or is being adopted by many nations including NZ, Canada, the UK, Malaysia.  The technology is advanced as displayed in the video links:

Australia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q761INgLEw
UK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_fUKDmI8bU
NZ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBBo6oPGvHs
Canada:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8odUVIAXPS8
Title: Re: cashless economy & greenbacks as black market currency
Post by: Richard (richard) on September 02, 2016, 07:23:26 AM
Very interesting, I had not known about polymer currency before... it makes sense in light of advanced counterfeiting technology. I wonder if there would be embedded tracking, RFID, in it. My concern is what to do in the event that currency was to be turned in and exchanged for digital. It would likely be illegal to hold paper & coin currency after that, and then, would that include junk silver?
Title: Re: cashless economy & greenbacks as black market currency
Post by: Smurf Hunter on September 02, 2016, 09:03:28 AM
Very interesting, I had not known about polymer currency before... it makes sense in light of advanced counterfeiting technology. I wonder if there would be embedded tracking, RFID, in it. My concern is what to do in the event that currency was to be turned in and exchanged for digital. It would likely be illegal to hold paper & coin currency after that, and then, would that include junk silver?

Economic valuations aside, imagine if you were mugged and they emptied the cash from your wallet - but being prepared you have $100 folded inside your shoe. 
On the day of currency reckoning, when you're obligated to surrender your money,  how will anyone know how much cash/silver you had in your sock drawer?
Title: Re: cashless economy & greenbacks as black market currency
Post by: Wild Colonial Boy on September 02, 2016, 03:17:39 PM
Very interesting, I had not known about polymer currency before... it makes sense in light of advanced counterfeiting technology. I wonder if there would be embedded tracking, RFID, in it. My concern is what to do in the event that currency was to be turned in and exchanged for digital. It would likely be illegal to hold paper & coin currency after that, and then, would that include junk silver?

Richard, there is no RFID technology associated with the Polymer notes yet and I cannot see a need.  Credit cards are more akin to RFID these days, because whenever you make a transaction you are being geo-tagged or activities tracked.....something to ponder!
Title: Re: cashless economy & greenbacks as black market currency
Post by: Richard (richard) on September 02, 2016, 07:39:12 PM
Wild Colonial Boy: I realize I"m going off the rails here, but let us consider that technology can make people that are drunk with power indulge themselves. A credit cards' transactions are tied to one owner, but a five dollar bill goes everywhere, where? Wouldn't that be fascinating to know? If they had the technology to track for sure someone would say "we need to know" and it is done. Being that the initial cost of producing such a high-tech currency would be well beyond that of printing paper currency, it would be offset by its' longevity. I believe that it would be a feature that would be considered by those "who need to know'. Whether or not that would be detrimental or advantageous to our liberty I do not know.
Title: Re: cashless economy & greenbacks as black market currency
Post by: Wild Colonial Boy on September 03, 2016, 04:51:58 AM
Wild Colonial Boy: I realize I"m going off the rails here, but let us consider that technology can make people that are drunk with power indulge themselves. A credit cards' transactions are tied to one owner, but a five dollar bill goes everywhere, where? Wouldn't that be fascinating to know? If they had the technology to track for sure someone would say "we need to know" and it is done. Being that the initial cost of producing such a high-tech currency would be well beyond that of printing paper currency, it would be offset by its' longevity. I believe that it would be a feature that would be considered by those "who need to know'. Whether or not that would be detrimental or advantageous to our liberty I do not know.

A simpler version of RFID would simply be to put bar codes on each note.  It does not need to be expensive but it would still require individuals to "freely decide to scan each bill as it goes into the register.  In the picture of the world you paint, our liberty and more importantly anonymity would be degraded.

If your interested in currency tracking check out http://www.wheresgeorge.com/
Title: Re: cashless economy & greenbacks as black market currency
Post by: iam4liberty on September 03, 2016, 08:08:22 AM
Electronic doesnt necessarily mean loss of anonymity.  Right now it is common on the black market to use prepaid cards as a currency for transactions,  The balance is checked at point of transfer via phone.  In fact i have seen reports that up to a third of SNAP cards are traded rather than used by the recipients.

Try buying a beer and a sandwich with precious metals tomorrow.

That is easy. I know over two dozen places where i could do that right now.  At one point we had over 60 businesses locally using liberty dollars.  Believe me, transacting in silver is not as hard as people think.  There are a lot of silver bugs who own businesses, especially restaurants and convenience stores.
Title: Re: cashless economy & greenbacks as black market currency
Post by: jerseyboy on July 01, 2017, 11:31:32 AM
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/war-cash-nuclear-citibank/

Article from November 2016, saying Citibank in Australia is no longer transacting in cash.

Jerseyboy