The Survival Podcast Forum

Farm, Garden and The Land => Permaculture, Land Management and Foraging => Topic started by: CagedFeral on March 29, 2017, 05:24:02 AM

Title: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on March 29, 2017, 05:24:02 AM
I'm hoping to start a very small Apple Tree Orchard (maybe 6-10 trees). I've just planted two. A Golden Delicious because it's the "rooster of apple trees" and a Liberty tree because it's supposed to be easy maintenance. The Liberty will be pollinated by the Golden if I'm not mistaken.

These are bareroot trees I planted 3 weeks ago. I'm just looking for advice/tips to keep these trees happy. They are full size trees so I'm not looking for apples any time soon. I just want them to grow so that the apples will be great years from now. I'd love to add other types next year too.

I'm zone 6 southern Ohio. I'm just looking for advice that will help me baby these two trees and maybe advice on what to add next year. Thanks
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: fritz_monroe on March 29, 2017, 06:47:30 AM
Protect the trunk from rabbits and deer.  Also, any future trees you add, make sure they are not susceptible to the diseases in your area.  Cedar/Apple rust comes to mind. 

Also, take a look at the Penn State extension office.  They have a lot of great articles.  Here's a link to the Fruit Times page (http://extension.psu.edu/plants/tree-fruit/news?utm_campaign=Fruit+Times&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_content=newsletter_view_online)
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: Cedar on March 29, 2017, 08:41:19 AM
Look up the "Orange Pippin" apple site, https://www.orangepippin.com/apples
Big Horse Creek http://bighorsecreekfarm.com/apple-varieties/

Go to fruit tasting events in the fall and taste test, and either graft varieties you like up, or have them custom made for you. Tasting events are how I ended up with American and Japanese varieties, instead of just my pre-15th century English ones.

It took me around two years to determine what I wanted in my orchards for taste, purpose, and pollination capabilities with each other. Some need just one other variety to cross to, some need three. A triploid' variety which means its own pollen is ineffective at pollinating other varieties. But if you are in an area which has other apple trees around, you are probably ok.

There is another pollination chart at a Seattle fruit tree society I like, but you might find this one useful as well.https://www.orangepippintrees.com/pollinationchecker.aspx

Cedar
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: bigbear on March 31, 2017, 12:26:42 PM
I planted 3 bare root apple nearly 4 years ago.  I used Orange Pippin because I liked their rootstock options.  And didn't have a problem with them at all. 

During the first few months/year, make sure they are watered well.  Especially in the dry summer.

Not sure how you garden, but everything I read said don't fertilize the first year.  The goal is to make the root grow and if you fertilize, then the root get what they need for the tree to grow without having the roots grow as well.  You want the root to grow deep and wide.  (That's true for everything, but probably more so for young trees.)

Protect the bark around the tree base from mice/rabbits, especially in winter.  There's a tape you can put on them.  Or you can just stake a circle of chicken wire around each tree.

Cedar has a great pruning thread somewhere in the forum.  You'll need to prune in the winter.

Maybe not a concern if you're growing dwarf trees...  But if you get apples in the first 2-3 years, pinch them off as they are start forming.  It helps root development because instead of using it's nutrients to produce a handful of apples those years, it can use that energy to grow roots to support dozens/hunderds(?) of apples in a few years.

We have a Golden Delicious too.  They are a great all-purpose apple.  I'm not sure about the Liberty, but I see that it's a triploid (like Cedar mentions).  So it sounds like it's not a very good pollinator of other trees.  We paired ours with a Fuji and a Honeycrisp (in hindsight, I wished I would have done a Jonagold instead).

I'll second the suggestion to taste different varieties.  But I'll add to get at least one tart apple (like a Granny Smith) not just all sweet apples.  Having multiple flavors in your apple sauce makes it taste much, much better!  Maybe even stagger maturity times to extend the fresh apple season.  And get some that keep longer (typically less sugar content).
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: Cedar on March 31, 2017, 01:21:46 PM
I did not even realize Orange Pippin sold trees. I just use them as a reference.

 Cedar
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on April 01, 2017, 05:09:03 AM
Thanks very much. I'm using everyone's advice as I type this. I need to learn more about what pollinates what. I don't want to end up with a crabapple. Right now it's been raining and all kinds of wet but good advice about keeping watered this summer. I'm about to make a couple slow watering buckets to set out for them this summer.  Right now I'm only thinking of roots. I don't expect apples. I'll be very happy just watching them grow.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: Cedar on April 01, 2017, 08:19:34 AM
I need to learn more about what pollinates what. I don't want to end up with a crabapple.  Right now I'm only thinking of roots. I don't expect apples. I'll be very happy just watching them grow.

I have been doing this for 30+ years and I need to still go back and look at charts to see what pollinates what. Generally you will be fine unless you live in a very apple deficient area. If you have any apple tree anywhere within a mile, you probably have one to pollinate your trees. I believe you said you had a "Yellow Delicious", so you are probably more than fine.

And what is wrong with a Crabapple? It too is its own cultivar (variety), and there are some quite fine crabapples out there. If by what you mean with cross pollinating is that your tree will not produce the variety you want, but instead will become a 'crabapple', this is not correct. You will either get a light or no crop off your tree with poor or wrong pollination.  In Canada I had a crabapple in my front pasture which was red all the way through and make a beautiful apple juice which was pink coloured and just delicious. A friend took some off that tree and other tree and made Spiced Crabapples to can up. Crabapples also tend to be excellent pollinators.

And YES!! Expect apples!!! That is part of the joy. Otherwise you could just be growing any non-fruiting ornamental. Ornamental pears that people grow actually confuse me  ;D

Cedar
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: jerseyboy on April 02, 2017, 10:53:16 PM
Here is the Orange Pippen site

https://www.orangepippintrees.com/pollinationchecker.aspx

Golden delicious and liberty are not recommended pairs.

Here is a chart I use which gives a good visual.

https://www.acnursery.com/apple_pollinizer.pdf

It shows that Liberty is a very early flowering variety. 

Here is another chart

http://raintreenursery.com/uploads/ApplePollination.pdf

Golden delicious blooms later but there appears to be some overlap.

Good luck and remember that there are many traits to look for in an apple, sweet, tart, high acid, long keeping,  baking (stays firm when cooked),  keeping period,  bloom time, harvest time, flavor, disease resistance, etc.

Also, like Cedar said, crab apples are often used for pollinators in large orchards.

Oh here is a short history and some comments for the liberty apple

https://www.orangepippin.com/apples/liberty

Personally, I like honeycrisp the best for an eating apple, although I did plant a young liberty last year.

Jerseyboy
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on April 03, 2017, 04:41:49 AM
And what is wrong with a Crabapple? It too is its own cultivar (variety), and there are some quite fine crabapples out there. If by what you mean with cross pollinating is that your tree will not produce the variety you want, but instead will become a 'crabapple', this is not correct. You will either get a light or no crop off your tree with poor or wrong pollination.  In Canada I had a crabapple in my front pasture which was red all the way through and make a beautiful apple juice which was pink coloured and just delicious. A friend took some off that tree and other tree and made Spiced Crabapples to can up. Crabapples also tend to be excellent pollinators.
Cedar
Don't mean insult Crabapple. I recently read that they are great pollinators so I'd like one or two. I'm just remembering those little green sour apples that we'd salt and would give us stomach cramps as a kid. We loved them even though we knew we'd soon pay for it. I'm not even positive they were crabapple. They were very small and sour though. I'm relying on 35 year old memories
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on April 03, 2017, 05:07:43 AM
Good info. More to apples than you'd think. I'm reading the links and It's starting to sink in. I know I want good pollination and disease resistance. I like nearly any apple myself. As long as it doesn't have a big rotten spot or worm holes. I've always been a fan of the Granny Smith so I'll probably lean toward planting that next year.

I put a mulch ring made from plastic 55gal barrels around them yesterday. Cut outs are only about 6'' high so no rabbit protection. I did make some pest repellent from garlic, hotsause, cayenne pepper and raw egg. I'm not sure i'll work but it sure makes me want to run away. 
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: jerseyboy on April 03, 2017, 07:15:08 PM
Not all crab apples are sour

https://www.starkbros.com/products/fruit-trees/apple-trees/whitney-crabapple

I haven't tried this one, but Whitney is one of three or four common ones people grow.  If I find others, I will post them.

Here are a few more

http://www.grandrapidsmn.com/opinion/columnists/ornamental-versus-edible-crabapples/article_63d864ac-d16a-11e3-9f57-0019bb2963f4.html

Jerseyboy
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on April 04, 2017, 05:29:11 AM
I'm now thinking I may need a crabapple. I'm thinking good pollinators are what I should start with. I'd like to try a Whitney crabapple if for no other reason than that's my daughter's name.

I'm watching these 1st two trees for buds then I'll be very motivated to get more started next year. This time of year here can make you crazy because some things start budding out while others stay dormant. I feel like running out to there and giving motivation speeches.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: Cedar on April 04, 2017, 10:08:25 AM
Advice? Don't over think it if you have alot of apples within a mile of your house. I tend to live in remote areas that apples are not very well populated, and with the weird varieties I tend to have, I had to do a bit of research  on them. The chances of your apples not getting pollinated are unlikely.

In the Autumn, find a apple taste testing  orchard or event in the fall, taste test until you can'tt take another bite, take a notebook and rate the flavor etc from a 1-5. At the end of the day, find the varieties you liked best, research and locate this one's you really like. Don't have enough room? Make a Belgian fence from them. I have  pics on here somewhere on what a Belgian fence with apples looks like. Really not as intimidating as it might seem.

Cedar
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on April 11, 2017, 05:29:26 AM
I'll look into a fence. I have deer in the back yard all the time. I'm using a homemade pest repellent right now. It's nasty stuff. It makes my wife run away. Checked them Sunday evening and no signs of pest. One tiny bud at the highest tip on each tree.

I saw a youtube video saying to cut a bareroot in half so that it will grow roots stronger the first year. These bareroots are basically 3ft sticks. I'm wondering if I should do this.

We have a huge apple orchard that my best guess is 8-10 air miles from here. I worked some weekends picking there when I was 16. I have no idea where the nearest tree is but I'm guessing a few are around. We also have a beekeeping operation near by so that may help.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: bigbear on April 12, 2017, 11:10:58 AM
One tiny bud at the highest tip on each tree.

I saw a youtube video saying to cut a bareroot in half so that it will grow roots stronger the first year. These bareroots are basically 3ft sticks. I'm wondering if I should do this.

Pinch the bud off.  It takes nutrients away from growing roots and other more important things.

Let it grow for now.  Wait until winter to cut it back.  But yes, the first pruning is pretty severe.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: LvsChant on April 12, 2017, 05:50:57 PM
We planted our little orchard before the house was even built back in 2013 (bare root stock from Peaceful Valley - groworganic.com - got a mix of fruit trees for about $200 for 10 different varieties)... All the trees are loaded with apples this year since we haven't had a late frost this year. I'm going to have to thin them out pretty soon. It's been so windy, though, that I'm waiting to see what blows off first.

Gala is my big pollinator for the apples...

We have:

Gala
Granny Smith
Cox's Yellow Pippin
Gravenstein
Honeycrisp

The Gravenstein and Honeycrisp are the latest to blossom, but the Gala has blooms for such a long time that it seems to take care of all that need a cross-pollinator. Around here (southern NM), despite the fact that apples and pears do really well, not many people have them and there are zero local orchards to visit...

We also have two pear trees, which seem to do really well... Bartlett (good pollinator) and Red D'Anjou (iirc)
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on April 20, 2017, 04:53:30 AM
Went out and watered with rain water tonight because it's been a couple three days without rain. They are lookin great. The Golden Delicious has leaf sprouts all over and the Liberty has about half the leaf sprouts but the stock is about 3 times as thick!

It looks like these trees are loving the location. I'll baby them this summer by watering at night thru the hot dry times. I just don't have the nerve to cut them when they seem to be doing so well. I put half of one of those fertilizer sticks and a little bone meal in when I planted so I'll just water and mulch this year. I don't think adding anything would help them in the long run for now. I want them to grow strong roots.

Now I need to research the 4 to 6 I'll add next year.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on April 20, 2017, 05:40:15 AM
We planted our little orchard before the house was even built back in 2013 (bare root stock from Peaceful Valley - groworganic.com - got a mix of fruit trees for about $200 for 10 different varieties)... All the trees are loaded with apples this year since we haven't had a late frost this year. I'm going to have to thin them out pretty soon. It's been so windy, though, that I'm waiting to see what blows off first.

Gala is my big pollinator for the apples...

We have:

Gala
Granny Smith
Cox's Yellow Pippin
Gravenstein
Honeycrisp

The Gravenstein and Honeycrisp are the latest to blossom, but the Gala has blooms for such a long time that it seems to take care of all that need a cross-pollinator. Around here (southern NM), despite the fact that apples and pears do really well, not many people have them and there are zero local orchards to visit...

We also have two pear trees, which seem to do really well... Bartlett (good pollinator) and Red D'Anjou (iirc)

Gala is always coming up as a good pollinator so it's on the list. I've always loved a Granny Smith so I'd love to have couple of them.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: Knecht on April 24, 2017, 08:51:29 PM
Good luck! I got into tree planting two years ago (planted couple more before, but it was no big deal). Planted 40 new trees and bushes in the last two years. Most of them are doing great so far. Hope yours will be the same.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: Skispcs on April 25, 2017, 08:22:22 AM
Not sure if Japanese beetles are a problem in your area but they destroyed my young apple trees last summer.
I had 10 2 year old apple trees and the beetles completely defoliated them along with my cherry and plum trees.
Even with some judicious pruning, half of the trees did not come back this year.

I am currently experimenting with mosquito netting and a frame to place over each tree once they are pollinated and before the beetles come out in late June.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: bigbear on April 25, 2017, 11:35:54 AM
Not sure if Japanese beetles are a problem in your area but they destroyed my young apple trees last summer.
I had 10 2 year old apple trees and the beetles completely defoliated them along with my cherry and plum trees.
Even with some judicious pruning, half of the trees did not come back this year.

I am currently experimenting with mosquito netting and a frame to place over each tree once they are pollinated and before the beetles come out in late June.

I had the same problem with Japanese beetles.  Until I used diatomaceous earth.  It's a natural organism that will be ingested by Japanese beetle larva and essentially dehydrate it.  It has worked wonders.  Just put a tablespoon scoop on the ground every few feet in early spring or fall.  And by next year the population will be dramatically reduced.  (Plus DE can be used for a few other things, like for mites in the chicken coop.)  It's supposed to be effective for the next 20 years.
Wiki - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth
Paul Wheaton - https://richsoil.com/diatomaceous-earth.jsp
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on April 27, 2017, 05:11:24 AM
Japanese beetles. These are around here in southern Ohio too.  I wonder if the pest repellent teas with alot of garlic will help.

I've been looking for an all around natural pest control spray to use. I've made some awful pepper spray type stuff but from what I read garlic is absorbed in the plant and will keep pest away by taste alone. I'm not sure if true or how much to use yet though.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: Cedar on April 27, 2017, 07:46:15 AM
How about running ducks or chickens under the orchard where the beetles are an issue?

Cedar
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: DDJ on April 28, 2017, 10:58:47 AM
The thread is drifting and I am going to giver it another push, but I do not have time to start a new thread.

If the DE will kill beetles what else will it kill.  Here in N.E. Ohio we have some NASTY clay, at my house anyway, and I am doing all I can to promote the earth worms especially around my young fruit tree guilds.  That appears to be counterproductive to treat with DE.

I am planning a bat house and Lemon grass, too bad it is not hardy enough to turn loose in the yard, for mosquitos and trying to plant my guilds to attract the good insets I have not seen a Japanese beetle eater that I need to figure out how to attract.  Chickens are the plan for next year that may be the answer.

Just saying that we need to watch treating to kill/drive off one thing to make sure we are not doing negative.  Just because it does not come from Monsanto does not mean it has no side effects.  Not sure what the answer is.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on May 04, 2017, 04:08:56 AM
How about running ducks or chickens under the orchard where the beetles are an issue?

Cedar
I'm just not ready and set up for that yet Ceder. I do want chickens someday but they will need pinned in. The coyote here have expanded like crazy over the last few years.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on May 04, 2017, 04:40:07 AM
i have these trees wrapped by 6" high plastic barrel ring cut outs and will be adding 2' high chicken wire around them today. They are looking good so I want to keep rabbits from chewing on them this fall. I'll baby these and add more apple trees next year. I need to clear some pine out to make room.

Just planted a North Star cherry tree too. I hope they all take root. I'll figure out what to add after I know what I have. Two baby sergeant crapapple trees are going too.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on May 07, 2017, 03:31:47 AM
Liberty Apple is looking a little sick. It leafed out fairly well but in the last week the leaves are looking droopy. Weather turned a little colder, gray and rainy this last week.  I'd hate to loose this tree. Any advice? Am I worried for no reason?

The golden delicious 20ft away is looking great so I'm not sure why the Liberty isn't.
I also got a couple twig crabapples with an Arborday membership that I planted 2 weeks ago. they are taking off very well.

 
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: fritz_monroe on May 07, 2017, 05:59:52 AM
Japanese beetles. These are around here in southern Ohio too.  I wonder if the pest repellent teas with alot of garlic will help.

I've been looking for an all around natural pest control spray to use. I've made some awful pepper spray type stuff but from what I read garlic is absorbed in the plant and will keep pest away by taste alone. I'm not sure if true or how much to use yet though.
Long term, you can use milky spore to kill off the larvae.

But check out this article (http://www.gardensalive.com/product/beating-japanese-beetles) by Mike McGrath of the You Bet your Garden podcast (http://whyy.org/cms/youbetyourgarden/).  It's full of solutions to Japanese beetles.

Don't know what's up with the tree, could be transplant shock, I guess.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: Cedar on May 07, 2017, 07:55:59 AM
Do the leaves have spots on them? Is it getting enough water?

Cedar
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on May 08, 2017, 04:09:32 AM
The tree has had plenty of water. The leaves came out small but healthy looking and the trunk doubled in thickness. Now the leaves are wilting.  I'm not sure what this tree wants. The golden delicious is looking good.

This week started out sunny and about 73deg, Last night they say it may have hit 33deg. Just my luck when trying to get several plantings to take root.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: Cedar on May 08, 2017, 07:26:25 AM
Too much water?

Cedar
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: bigbear on May 08, 2017, 09:37:51 AM
Long term, you can use milky spore to kill off the larvae.

But check out this article (http://www.gardensalive.com/product/beating-japanese-beetles) by Mike McGrath of the You Bet your Garden podcast (http://whyy.org/cms/youbetyourgarden/).  It's full of solutions to Japanese beetles.

Don't know what's up with the tree, could be transplant shock, I guess.

Whoops...  Forget my DE comments...  I didn't use DE.  I used milky spore.   :-[ :facepalm:

Is it too soon to show symptoms of being root bound?  I doubt that's what it is since it was a bare root planting, but curious what the more experienced on the board will say.

I remember reading about being careful with the location, especially in harder soil.  And that the hole the tree is planted in could cause a water build up.  The theory is that water fills the loosely packed hole because the tighter soil around it doesn't allow for as good drainage.  And causes the roots to not get enough air, disease, and maybe root rot. 
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on May 09, 2017, 04:40:57 AM
Too much water?

Cedar

Could be. The Liberty is slightly down hill of the GD. Bigbear may have a good theory. Relatively the same but the GD has a slight natural swell. Maybe I can direct run off away from the Liberty?  It should be good drainage but like he said, I dug a big 20 dollar hole for my 5 dollar tree. Maybe it's soaking too much up.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: Cedar on May 09, 2017, 07:55:03 AM
Honestly, I would leave it alone. See what it does. I don't baby mine at all. I plant .in in usually moderately high clay soil. Just throw rabbit manure on them once in awhile. Water in summer when it is super hot. I never pinch anything off, prune starting their see one year. Survival of the fittest on mine, as I want them to be around long after I am gone.

Sounds like it was a discount/clearence tree? Some of those are are dicey anyway, most as someone culled them for shape or age in their bags. Maybe the rootstock on yours (probably a dwarf) doesn't like wet feet. Could be transplant shock.

I grafted up dozens of new trees in 2016, two died, two the top stock died, the rest lived and are thriving in their buckets (still working on getting oak stumps out of the orchard area so I can plant them). Why did two die? Who knows... i did not do anything different than the others, and at that time they all overwintered in the same five gallon bucket. Some just don't make it.

Cedar
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on May 11, 2017, 04:03:47 AM
I'm leaving in be for now. It's warmed back up but still more rain coming.

I got them from Gurney's. Bare root full size. I've had good luck with them so far. Although I am wondering where my Goji berry & Saskatoon Blueberry plants are right now.

Your soil sounds like mine. I have about 4'' top soil then thick clay. Most things seem to grow well here though. That's why I wonder if I've made any mistakes when planting something new.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on May 23, 2017, 04:51:33 AM
Just to update: The Golden Deliciouses is growing like a bush! It's doing great. The Liberty's leaves wilted so I picked them off. The tree seems to still be alive. I'm thinking about cutting this 3ft bare root in half so that it might live by putting it's energy into it's roots.

Is this a good idea to save a tree or will it just stress it more? I'm not sure what to do for it.

I did spray with dr earth fertilizer but not sure that'll help with no leaves to spray.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: Cedar on May 23, 2017, 10:03:48 AM
If it were mine, I would leave it be.

 Cedar
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: jerseyboy on August 19, 2017, 09:04:55 PM
On a related note, I was walking my back yard today an noticed a new apple drop under one of my apple trees and picked it up.  I just now got around to eating it and it was fabulous.  The funny thing is that it was just a red Macintosh apple, nothing exotic, but is was better than almost every store bought apple.  Fine flesh, not mealy, kind of tart along with sweetness.  Nice combination of flavors.

I just planted these three years ago and this is the first real production I have from this tree.  If the animals don't get them, there are about 10 more apples still on the tree.

Just thought I would share and hopefully push another suburbanite to planting some apple trees.  They are worth it.

Jerseyboy
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on August 21, 2017, 04:48:13 AM
jerseyboy, Looking forward to that day. I should have planted 20 years ago.

I messed up so now I recommend that any new land owner plant fruit trees asap.

Just to update: The Golden D is about 8 ft high and doing fine. The deer nibbed it pretty good but it survived.
The Liberty is still a 3ft stick. No sign of life but it still seems bendable so maybe it will take off next spring.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: LvsChant on August 23, 2017, 06:44:38 PM
@Jerseyboy: I agree with you... no matter the variety, homegrown always seems to be the best-tasting ever! I am really enjoying this year's crop.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on December 03, 2017, 04:45:39 AM
Just to update: The Golden D grew great this year and the Liberty never got any better than earlier posted.
The Liberty is most likely dead but still feels flexible so I've left it be and will see what happens in the spring.

My Golden Delicious did a great job and is near 8ft high and grew bush like. That's the reason I really wanted to post.
This tree grew well but has very healthy branches coming off in from low near grown. I've read that I should not prune the 1st year.  I know this tree needs pruned but I'm not sure I should yet. Should I give it to this time next year before I prune it?

I'm in Ohio and below 32 temps have already been here.

I also planted 2 Sergent crapapples last spring and they did great. I'm hoping they make good pollinators.

And Also,Also I planted a North Star Cherry tree this spring that did very well so I have the same questions about it.

Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: Cedar on December 03, 2017, 04:56:26 PM
Is the low to the ground branches above or below the graft? If below, cut them off flush.

Cedarl
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on December 05, 2017, 04:57:52 AM
Is the low to the ground branches above or below the graft? If below, cut them off flush.

Cedarl

It's all above the graft. The lowest one is about 4-5" above soil so that's above the graft. I planted the graft just barely above soil so should be good. Alot of suckers grew down in that low range though. Really looks bush like. I know I'll need to prune these off but don't want to interfere with it growing strong roots. Maybe wait and prune this time next year?

I've done some tree pruning but a baby fruit tree is new to me.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: Cedar on December 05, 2017, 07:28:40 AM
I'd take anything off flush under 18" from the ground. Why did you plant the graft so low? Mine are at least 12" - 18" above the ground.

Send a pic and I can try to virtually prune it for you if you like. I have done it for other people.

Cedar
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on December 06, 2017, 04:43:13 AM
I'd take anything off flush under 18" from the ground. Why did you plant the graft so low? Mine are at least 12" - 18" above the ground.

Send a pic and I can try to virtually prune it for you if you like. I have done it for other people.

Cedar

You plant the graft that high?! I read that it just needs to be above soil. I have no experience with grafted trees. I may have grew an apple BUSH by accident!

These were bareroot trees that I ordered. They were too small to get that high but I might have needed to get higher. I just made sure the graft was well above soil. I'm not sure how these grafted trees behave yet.



Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on January 04, 2018, 04:23:23 AM
I'm going to do a few pruning cuts soon. This deep freeze time of year seems right.

I've just ordered four more apple trees that will ship this spring. I think I've picked varieties that will work together. Finding an A -B is easy but linking A back to a B is confusing.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CharlesH on January 04, 2018, 07:16:06 AM
I know Granny Smith is a good a general pollinator in my area.  Another general rule of thumb I use is to compare harvest times.  It’s probably not full proof, but I think I get trees flowering at roughly the same time when the apples are ripening at roughly the same time.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: Cedar on January 04, 2018, 12:12:27 PM
I know Granny Smith is a good a general pollinator in my area.  Another general rule of thumb I use is to compare harvest times.  It’s probably not full proof, but I think I get trees flowering at roughly the same time when the apples are ripening at roughly the same time.

Yes.... Buuuut...

Some trees need only one other pollinator, some which are diploids need two or more or won't set fruit. "Golden Delicious" will pollinate many varieties, which is why it is sometimes called a "rooster tree".

That said... Yes on the pollination times coinciding with flowering times...... SOMETIMES.  Orange pippin and a Seattle fruit tree organization have nice calculators for what pollinates what.

Since I lean towards pre-15th century fruits/apples, I really need to check.

Cedar
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on January 11, 2018, 06:28:46 AM
My Golden D that I planted last year did great. I read that it's called the ''Rooster of the Orchard" so very happy that it's looking good.

I also found out here 1st that Crab Apple trees are good all around pollinators so I planted 2 Sergent Crab Apples last spring and they seemed to take off very well. I have 2 more coming.

I was looking for the main trees you'd want to start an orchard. I'm kind of looking for tuff varieties also. I don't have time for trees that need extra care ALL the time. I don't mind spending time to get them established but I'm not able to spend hours weekly to keep them going. I like a tree that knows how to get things done.

Anyway: This is what I've ordered for this spring.
Goldrush
Granny Smith
Pristine
Sundance

I have no idea about pollination here but I jumped in. I hope the Granny Smith makes it. I love a GS.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: bigbear on January 11, 2018, 09:49:26 AM
I'll second Cedar's recommendation of using the Orange Pippin site.  They're UK based, but I do like their site and service.  I bought 3 apple trees on semi-standard root stock from them 4 years ago (Fuji, Golden Delicious, and Honeycrisp).  All still living and starting to set fruit.

https://www.orangepippintrees.com/pollinationchecker.aspx?a=0&v=1557

Just find your apple and a list of pollinators (and a brief description) are provided.

Assuming you're not planting your trees miles apart, I don't think you need more than 1 of the same type of crab apples if the only goal is for pollination.  I would think you can use that space for something edible or to just save yourself the time...
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on January 26, 2018, 04:14:23 AM
This orangepippintrees.com site is great. Looks like I might be ok for pollination. Tells me what I might want to add too.

Thanks very much!
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on March 15, 2018, 03:19:47 AM
Well the trees were planted last Sunday.

Goldrush , Granny Smith , Pristine , Sundance

these are bare root trees. I stuck them in what should be good soil. I've added zero amendments so far.

We'll see what happens.
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: Cedar on March 15, 2018, 07:12:37 AM
Good luck on them.

Cedar
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on March 16, 2018, 04:33:27 AM
Good luck on them.

Cedar
Thanks Cedar. Now if Spring ever shows up I'll learn a little more this year.

A couple were "deluxe" 2 year old trees that came with fertilizers. It says not to add it for 3 months.
This makes me think I may have killed the Liberty tree last year by adding amendments. I may have overdone it.

I'll let y'all know what happens this summer. This is going to be a long learning process but I like it.

Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: CagedFeral on October 15, 2018, 04:05:06 AM
Well I have five trees that did pretty well this year. I think they will make it. All different variates that should work well together.
I need to clear more brush and decide if I need a couple more apples this spring or maybe think about another cherry or start pears and plums. 
Title: Re: Starting an Apple Tree Orchard
Post by: DDJ on October 19, 2018, 10:51:48 AM
We had fast fruit with plums in Eastern Ohio.  The plumbs produced fruit 2 years before the Apples at the last house.  That tree also died in the third year of production.  I never knew why. We think it was a late deep frost while it was in bloom.  That is beside the point we got loads of plumbs from the tree faster than the apples that were planted the same day form the same source.  If you are looking to see something from your Orchard Plumbs may get you to a result faster. 

We also tried a Nectarine and it never fruited while we owned the house (6 years after we planted it).  We got one or 2 a year but they were gotten by birds or bugs before completely ripe.