The Survival Podcast Forum

Survivalism & Self Sufficiency Topics => Homesteading and Self Reliant Living => Topic started by: Gamer on May 14, 2018, 06:12:59 PM

Title: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 14, 2018, 06:12:59 PM
We're 3 years into a post-apoc world (a plague has wiped out 99.9 percent of humans) and we the survivors have formed into small and widely scattered groups.
For a while we lived off tinned food from deserted supermarkets and basic medicines from pharmacies but everything is dwindling and/or going mouldy by now, so we're moving out of the city (which was dark and unheated and rat-infested) to set up a small community somewhere in the country.
Hence this thread, which I hope will let us have fun discussing exactly how we plan to stay alive, almost like a role-playing game, it'll cover hunting, fishing, agriculture, food preparation and so on, but only in a general "fun" way, as there are already hardcore threads that go into the nitty-gritty details.
Our group consists of about 15 people (6 men, 6 women and 3 kids of assorted ages from 5 to 75), none of us are related and all of us lost our families in The Plague.
Okay, first question to start this thread-
Do forum members think this place (which we shall call The Hall) would be a good place to settle in?

Needless to say it stands empty because the Plague took the owners (we'll bury their dusty bones out back with due reverence)
It's in a temperate zone, is spacious and in excellent repair, water can be drawn from the river, and fish from the river and sea (and sea-salt).
Assorted cockles and mussels etc can be gathered from the shoreline, the woods and fields will provide small animals and partridges etc for meat, and the fields will provide crops, and small vegetable gardens will provide veg.
Have I overlooked anything?

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub4/sub4002/The_Hall_zpszq7n1mhm.jpg~original)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub4/sub4002/The_Hall2_zpsboh4jnbu.jpg~original)
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Morning Sunshine on May 14, 2018, 07:18:47 PM
too many ground floor windows - entry points for bad guys who want what we have.

On that note, while I like trees as much as the next person, the trees behind are too close to the house.  again, a good place for the bad guys to hide.  Also fire could be dangerous
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 14, 2018, 08:13:56 PM
too many ground floor windows - entry points for bad guys who want what we have.
On that note, while I like trees as much as the next person, the trees behind are too close to the house.  again, a good place for the bad guys to hide.  Also fire could be dangerous

Thanks mate, you're a natural to be one of our Security Team..:)
Yes, there are bad guys around, they ate each other in the cities and now the survivors are venturing out into the countryside to look for new meat such as us!
No place is perfect but The Hall's advantages seem to outweigh the disadvantages, so to some degree we'll have to "adapt, improvise and overcome".
For example we could board up all the downstairs windows to stop people eyeballing us, and we can all live on the top floor, the place has got plenty of rooms.
If they do smash their way in downstairs we can pick them off as they come up the stairs. (You could double as a Weapons Instructor and give us firearms training, I've never fired a gun in my life)
As for the trees providing cover for bad guys, the upside is that they won't be able to use long-range sniper fire, they'll have to get within spitting distance and if they can see us, we can see them.
Needless to say, we wouldn't parade around at the upper windows to give them easy targets.
The fire risk from trees could be eliminated if we chop down the ones nearest the Hall, we'll need firewood anyway. The rest we can leave standing as long as possible to shield us from the winter gales off the sea..:)
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: archer on May 14, 2018, 10:08:40 PM
looks like it has some good grazing land, that branch of the river would be used for power generation i expect.
lots of trees for wood.
the bridge looks pretty good for defense.
should also put a guard towser near where the river splits (next to the power generation area).
is the ivy covering windows? if so, pull it down. might as well pull it down anyway, fire hazard and ppl could possibly climb it.
stone is cold, what is the inside like? modern so it stays warm?
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Mr. Bill on May 15, 2018, 11:48:05 AM
A survivor shows up with solid proof that he/she is the legitimate heir and legal owner of The Hall, and tells you to leave.  What do you do?
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: David in MN on May 15, 2018, 12:10:23 PM
A survivor shows up with solid proof that he/she is the legitimate heir and legal owner of The Hall, and tells you to leave.  What do you do?

Fart in his general direction. I've seen the movie...
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: mountainmoma on May 15, 2018, 01:27:23 PM
A survivor shows up with solid proof that he/she is the legitimate heir and legal owner of The Hall, and tells you to leave.  What do you do?

Ask them to join you. They cant survive alone either
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: DrJohn on May 15, 2018, 03:38:12 PM
What is the elevation of the property in relation to the waterways?  Might be able to build irrigation canals and such if it's not too high! But on the downside what is the flooding potential?
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Hurricane on May 15, 2018, 04:30:09 PM
What about hurricanes? No more satellites to tell you they're coming.

You will need a watch along the shore for ship-based threats.
Your cooking/heating smoke will be visible for a long ways out, at times.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 15, 2018, 06:14:46 PM
..stone is cold, what is the inside like? modern so it stays warm?

Warm as toast with that big roaring fire in the grate and the warm mellow glow of candlelight..:)
And not everything is stone, check the wooden floor and wood panelling.
Also, because the outside of the Hall is built of good solid stone, we get an extra warm fuzzy feeling from knowing people can't break through the walls unless they've got a tank.
We'll call this "The Living Room", it's on the ground floor and is where we hang most of the time for chat, discussion, banter, and to play card games, Monopoly and Donkey Kong etc before going up to our separate bedrooms for beddy-byes, but if anybody wants to stay down here and doze off on a sofa or chair in front of the dying fire it's up to them.
Notice we've boarded up the big windows to deter snipers and to make it harder for anybody to break in, leaving just a small gap at the top for daylight.

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub4/sub4002/hall-semi-shutts_zpskxvvy3dg.jpg~original)

Below- this is before we boarded the big windows up, obviously we couldn't leave them like that..

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub4/sub4002/hall-no-shutts_zpsc08ojgfk.jpg~original)
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 15, 2018, 06:20:34 PM
A survivor shows up with solid proof that he/she is the legitimate heir and legal owner of The Hall, and tells you to leave.  What do you do?
That's your job mate, you can be our resident Diplomat and try to talk him into joining us like Mountainmoma suggested, she can flutter her eyelashes at him to back you up..:)
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 15, 2018, 06:24:25 PM
What is the elevation of the property in relation to the waterways?  Might be able to build irrigation canals and such if it's not too high! But on the downside what is the flooding potential?

Good thinking, you can be our Navy Chief of Staff..:)
As insurance against floods we can keep a small rowing/sailing boat on the upper floor so we can get out if we have to.
The Hall stands on ground that's a few feet above sea level, but we learnt from geography books that the area has never been prone to flooding, and even if it is we can retreat to the upper floor to avoid getting our feet wet until the water subsides..:)
 
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 15, 2018, 06:37:43 PM
What about hurricanes? No more satellites to tell you they're coming.
You will need a watch along the shore for ship-based threats.
Your cooking/heating smoke will be visible for a long ways out, at times.

1- Hurricanes will still hit us whether we know they're coming or not, but our solid stone Hall will no doubt withstand them, it's been standing for 200 years and has never featured on "Destroyed in Seconds"..:)
2- Some of us will be down at the beach every day collecting shellfish from the rockpools and will hopefully spot incoming raiders and shoot a few before falling back to the Hall. But thankfully this is not a Hollywood movie and the countryside is definitely not crawling with too many raiders/zombies/mutants/aliens, they're an ever-present threat but only a relatively minor one.
3- Yes smoke from our cooking and hearth fire giving our position away is a problem but there's zilch we can do about it (sniffle)..


Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: CharlesH on May 15, 2018, 07:08:34 PM
How many people are actually around?  0.1% of 327 million is about 32 million and I’d think that means less than 600,000 in this particular state.  Those people would not all have survived the last three years.  Some got “ate up” literally, but some, maybe many, just died.  Young children, elderly, those requiring electricity for medical care, those who couldn’t cope losing everyone they knew and committing suicide, those getting food poisoning, etc.  What kind of human threat does this leave in our area?
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Mr. Bill on May 15, 2018, 07:09:28 PM
That's your job mate, you can be our resident Diplomat...

:jaw-drop: OMG NO!  That's too much like being a moderator!
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: LvsChant on May 15, 2018, 07:56:14 PM
Assess the foodstock and plan for winter... any domesticated animals around? Chickens, cattle, goats, sheep, dogs?
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: mountainmoma on May 16, 2018, 12:08:48 AM
How many people are actually around?  0.1% of 327 million is about 32 million and I’d think that means less than 600,000 in this particular state.  Those people would not all have survived the last three years.  Some got “ate up” literally, but some, maybe many, just died.  Young children, elderly, those requiring electricity for medical care, those who couldn’t cope losing everyone they knew and committing suicide, those getting food poisoning, etc.  What kind of human threat does this leave in our area?

.1 % of 327 million (327,000,000) is not 32million.

It is .327 million, which is 327 thousand  (327,000)
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: CharlesH on May 16, 2018, 04:11:40 AM
Thanks MM, without calculators I’m toast in this new world.  So 327000 distributed across the country means even fewer people in this area, especially after what was probably a rather large (on a percentage basis) kill-off of the plague survivors in year 1. 
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: mountainmoma on May 16, 2018, 11:47:49 AM
Thanks MM, without calculators I’m toast in this new world.  So 327000 distributed across the country means even fewer people in this area, especially after what was probably a rather large (on a percentage basis) kill-off of the plague survivors in year 1.

in this new world, I can do math..... I can also teach it to well behaved young people who want to learn, if i had the time between repairing everyones clothes, making soup, and keeping the little ones out of trouble....
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: mountainmoma on May 16, 2018, 12:01:26 PM
Thanks MM, without calculators I’m toast in this new world.  So 327000 distributed across the country means even fewer people in this area, especially after what was probably a rather large (on a percentage basis) kill-off of the plague survivors in year 1.

% symbol means /100 ( read as over 100 or divide by 100)( which is why it has a / and two zeros, % is short hand for /100), /100 means whatever number preceeded the % sign as the numerator, top number, in that fraction with 100 as the bottom number, such as 1% means 1/100. In simple terms, when you see the percent symbol, it means divide by 100.  An easy way to divide by 100 is to move the decimal point over two places ( 100 has two zeros, the % symbol has two zeros), so that 1% x 327,000,000 ( 327,000,000 x 1/100 is 327,000,000/100) , you would move the decimal point over twice ( which direction you ask ? Well, you are dividing, so you are making this number smaller ) in this case 327 with 6 zeros after it becomes 327 with 4 zeros after it 3,270,000.

In the example here, we had .1/100 which is (1/10)/100   this can be thought of in many ways, but one way is to take the 1% of answer and then take 1/10th of that  -- move the decimal point one more place ( 10 has one zero) 3,270,000 x 1/10 is 327,000

Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 16, 2018, 10:22:09 PM
..How many people are actually around?..

We just don't know, but we can get an idea from the fact that our little group consists of a mere 15 people (6 men, 6 women and 3 kids of assorted ages from 5 to 75 out of our home city of 1 million, that's all we've been able to put together since P-Day (Plague Day) 3 years ago, just 15 out of a million!.

What happened on P-Day was that like everybody else in our city, country (and possibly the world), we went down with a fever and crawled into bed where we lay tossing and turning in sweat-soaked delirium for several days, then we woke up and found our family and neighbours dead because they unluckily hadn't the level of immunity that we had.

Thankfully the water was still running in those days, so we were able to stagger to the kitchen tap to re-hydrate ourselves.
The electricity, phones, TV and radio stations were all dead, so we got in our cars and drove around our cities looking for other survivors, tooting our horns as we went, and every few weeks somebody would run out to flag us down, so little by little over the months our group slowly began to increase.

At first things were easy, we simply lived in a nice deserted house in the city, living off the food and bottled water from deserted supermarkets, but after a year or so the food began to go off and the water was running out.
Also during our trips to the supermarket we now and again caught sight of the occasional furtive-looking person dodging out of our sight, and some were carrying rifles, we half-jokingly called them "zombs"

Sometimes too, we'd hear shots ring out from somewhere in the city but whether it was aimed at us or whether it was zomb groups shooting and eating each other we don't know.
All we did know is that we then agreed we should move into the countryside to hopefully live securely and self-sufficiently, so we drove around looking for a country property, and The Hall seemed as good or better than most, so here we are, we moved in a few days ago at the start of this thread..:)

Below- This first episode of 'Survivors' (1975) mirrors what happened almost exactly, a butterfingered scientist drops a flask of plague germs in the intro, then people begin dropping like flies.
An especially powerful bit is at 28:50 when Abby wakes up from the fever and finds her hub dead on the sofa.
At 32:00 she puts on her coat and trudges round her village looking for other survivors.

PS- How do you post vids in the forum, all I'm seeing on my monitor is this line of text instead of the youtube picture, but hopefully it'll work if you click on it- 

https://youtu.be/zAyjkaFYnzE
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: CharlesH on May 17, 2018, 08:30:38 PM
We could get an idea of people in the area by looking at stores in the area and seeing how much they’ve been picked over.  An empty gun store would be a bit ominous... But, based on what I’m hearing the human threat seems smaller than I thought.
 
  Thought 1.  Risk mitigation.  Post-apocalyptic books seem to ignore this.  We should regularly consider potential risks and work to mitigate (not eliminate...) the most severe ones.  The army had a good (albeit painfully time consuming) method for this.  Looking up information on composite risk management can tell you all about it.  I’d pay particular attention to mitigation of risks to our health.  Minor events that would require a quick trip to a clinic today could be life threatening in this scenario, so let’s think about how we minimize the risk of those kinds of things happening to us.
 
 Thought 2.   We should search for heirloom style seed stock.  It’s already been three years so seed viability may be dropping fast.  Let’s put some stuff in the ground as soon as we can.  Protein seems fairly available from the sea and river, but it would be nice to scout out the area and see what we have in the way of traditional livestock that has gone feral but could be domesticated.  I’ll bet we find hogs, but wouldn’t it be nice to run across some chickens and a cattle herd with some lactating cows!
 
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: LvsChant on May 18, 2018, 04:28:12 PM
This scenario reminds me so much of the novel Earth Abides. One thing I always felt really sad about the premise in that book was the complete failure to educate the children of the next generations. I could not understand that at. all.

So... to put an emphasis on the importance of education, I think we should also immediately begin holding homeschool lessons for the children in our group, even if it doesn't seem to be the most urgent... unless that habit and emphasis is placed for the next generation, the knowledge base we take for granted will be lost to the new generations, who will never have experience the wonders of technology when the entire world 'worked'.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: mountainmoma on May 18, 2018, 05:10:40 PM
This scenario reminds me so much of the novel Earth Abides. One thing I always felt really sad about the premise in that book was the complete failure to educate the children of the next generations. I could not understand that at. all.

So... to put an emphasis on the importance of education, I think we should also immediately begin holding homeschool lessons for the children in our group, even if it doesn't seem to be the most urgent... unless that habit and emphasis is placed for the next generation, the knowledge base we take for granted will be lost to the new generations, who will never have experience the wonders of technology when the entire world 'worked'.

yes. And my previous post was wrong, as I or any of us, can educate the kids while we work. Most is oral, math, history, morality, science concepts while we are cooking, gardening, mending, all of these we can talk while we work.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: jerseyboy on May 18, 2018, 06:53:50 PM
Fun thread.

So many ways to go here.  Are there any fruit or nut trees in the area? What about berries?  What about infrastructure/fencing to keep animals in or out.  Livestock shelters?

We need new seed stock like was said before.  We have to start growing things and saving seeds.  We need to propegate fruit trees and get an orchard going.

We need a greenhouse for year round growing.

Okay, we are surviving, what about propagation? Why is everyone going off to their separate bedrooms?  We need farmhands. Lots of them ;)

What about communication? Are there any solar panels around (did we get the hydro power working)? Ham radios? Antennas? shortwave listening radios? What is happening in the outside world?  Wouldn't it be a shame if we were living in the 18th century while people 100 miles away have their power plant working in their city with 50 people and 10,000 head if cattle?

Jerseyboy
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 18, 2018, 08:18:30 PM
We could get an idea of people in the area by looking at stores in the area and seeing how much they’ve been picked over.  An empty gun store would be a bit ominous... But, based on what I’m hearing the human threat seems smaller than I thought...

Yes, a group of zombs might not ever turn up, or they could turn up tomorrow, which is why we'll go armed at all times. What sage words of divine wisdom can you give us grasshopper?

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub4/sub4002/unexpected300_zps3awyc8hx.jpg~original)

Your comment also raises the dilemma of what we should do ourselves plunder-wise right from P-Day til now?
I mean, as soon as we woke from the fever, should we have gone round all the local gunshops and systematically carted away everything we could lay our hands on, handguns, rifles, shotguns, ammo, knives, sharp sticks etc mainly to stop other people getting it?
Same applies to foodstuffs and bottled drinks, should we have grabbed loads of stuff for ourselves, or left some for any other poor schmucks who might need it?
 
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 18, 2018, 08:44:02 PM
We should search for heirloom style seed stock.  It’s already been three years so seed viability may be dropping fast.  Let’s put some stuff in the ground as soon as we can.  Protein seems fairly available from the sea and river, but it would be nice to scout out the area and see what we have in the way of traditional livestock that has gone feral but could be domesticated.  I’ll bet we find hogs, but wouldn’t it be nice to run across some chickens and a cattle herd with some lactating cows!
Are there any fruit or nut trees in the area? What about berries?  What about infrastructure/fencing to keep animals in or out.  Livestock shelters?
We need new seed stock like was said before.  We have to start growing things and saving seeds.  We need to propegate fruit trees and get an orchard going.
We need a greenhouse for year round growing.
Okay, we are surviving, what about propagation? Why is everyone going off to their separate bedrooms?  We need farmhands. Lots of them ;)

Okay guys, below are a few stock pics from the internet showing what we're aiming for, our group is 15 strong, so we'll tailor our efforts into providing enough food to feed ourselves and have a nice surplus to see us through the winter. We'll also scout the area for berries, nuts, loose livestock etc.
We'll have a nice little veg garden out back as below (this one says "English" but it could also be anywhere in any temperate zone in the world)
Question- what do you think the most efficient manageable size of our spread should be, 1 acre or 5 acre?
(PS- I've photoshopped coils of barbed wire (red) around the farmhouse to stop cheeky zombs coming up trying the door handles, and we can also put wire around The Hall)- 

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/plotbb.gif~original)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/plotaa.gif~original)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/one-acre-wire_zps686a1199.gif~original)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/fiveacres_zpsb38a0e53.jpg~original)
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 18, 2018, 09:09:10 PM
This scenario reminds me so much of the novel Earth Abides. One thing I always felt really sad about the premise in that book was the complete failure to educate the children of the next generations. I could not understand that at. all.
So... to put an emphasis on the importance of education, I think we should also immediately begin holding homeschool lessons for the children in our group, even if it doesn't seem to be the most urgent... unless that habit and emphasis is placed for the next generation, the knowledge base we take for granted will be lost to the new generations, who will never have experience the wonders of technology when the entire world 'worked'.
yes. And my previous post was wrong, as I or any of us, can educate the kids while we work. Most is oral, math, history, morality, science concepts while we are cooking, gardening, mending, all of these we can talk while we work.

Incidentally, our group won't have a "leader", we'll be a democracy all chipping in with ideas for discussion and friendly debate, then going with the ones the majority likes best..;)
Regarding education, our kids will no doubt find it fascinating to see pics of the Old World in books (planes, ships, trains etc) and will be asking us "what was it like", so in the interest of balance, can I just chip in and suggest we don't forget to tell them that it wasn't all sweetness and light, and that it could be a (gulp) very scary, smelly overcrowded place at times..

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/stink.jpg)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/factory.jpg)-
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Morning Sunshine on May 18, 2018, 09:49:20 PM
Incidentally, our group won't have a "leader", we'll be a democracy all chipping in with ideas for discussion and friendly debate, then going with the ones the majority likes best..;)
Regarding education, our kids will no doubt find it fascinating to see pics of the Old World in books (planes, ships, trains etc) and will be asking us "what was it like", so in the interest of balance, can I just chip in and suggest we don't forget to tell them that it wasn't all sweetness and light, and that it could be a (gulp) very scary, smelly overcrowded place at times..

foolish.  One person will emerge as a leader.  A good leader will sometimes not be seen as THE leader.  But there will be one.  As long as everyone in the group feels heard, it will work.  But remember, a pure democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep looking for dinner.  If one person's opinions are always voted down, he/she will feel unappreciated.  And that will lead to resentment and contention.

I, for example, am NOT pleased with this house, location.  I feel it is too vulnerable to attack by water or land.  To vulnerable to natural disasters.  I also think it is too big for our needs.

there are only 15 of us.  Big spaces are modern day luxuries we could not afford to heat or take care of.

I like the garden and animal plans.  Can we keep the animals in what used to be the garage?  People used to sleep in the same room as their animals to protect from predators, 2-legged and 4-legged.  The garage would be close enough.


don't forget, in our foraging - dehydrators and canners.  Jars, lids, etc.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 18, 2018, 11:27:18 PM
Incidentally, our group won't have a "leader", we'll be a democracy all chipping in with ideas for discussion and friendly debate, then going with the ones the majority likes best..;)
foolish.  One person will emerge as a leader...

Good point..:)
People generally need a good strong leader to give them a warm fuzzy sense of security and it remains to be seen who'll emerge as The Leader, heck it might even be me!
After all, as a game-player I've already managed to survive on the Armed Assault multiplayer game servers for 3000 hours against human opponents, my strength lies in tactical and strategic planning, here's a screenshot of me leading some of my squad in the game, I tell them-

"Fight with your brain first and your weapons second, and stick with me if you want to live!"
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub4/sub4001/AA3-inf-tks_zpsw2lxoxbf.jpg~original)
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 18, 2018, 11:57:27 PM
I, for example, am NOT pleased with this house, location.  I feel it is too vulnerable to attack by water or land.  To vulnerable to natural disasters.  I also think it is too big for our needs.
there are only 15 of us.  Big spaces are modern day luxuries we could not afford to heat or take care of.
I like the garden and animal plans.  Can we keep the animals in what used to be the garage?  People used to sleep in the same room as their animals to protect from predators, 2-legged and 4-legged.  The garage would be close enough.

That's the spirit! speak your mind, we want no yes-men in our group..:)
As I said at the start of this thread, The Hall is not perfect, but it's better than many I've scouted, and we can tackle any shortcomings by adapting, improvising and overcoming.
You think the house is too big, but the upside is that there'll be plenty of spare rooms for the newcomers who'll inevitably trickle in to join us in the months and years ahead.
As for heating, we'll socialise in the Living Room (see earlier pic) in front of its roaring fire, then go off to our individual bedrooms to sleep alone or with -ahem- company, tucked up snugly beneath the blankets.
For example this is a typical bedroom in The Hall, but if you prefer sleeping with the animals in the garage, go ahead..:)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub4/sub4002/hall5b_zpshqfipb0e.jpg~original)
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 19, 2018, 12:25:46 AM
What about communication? Are there any solar panels around (did we get the hydro power working)? Ham radios? Antennas? shortwave listening radios? What is happening in the outside world?  Wouldn't it be a shame if we were living in the 18th century while people 100 miles away have their power plant working in their city with 50 people and 10,000 head if cattle?

Our cities went black when the power went off soon after P-Day so us scattered survivors fell back on good old candles and paraffin lamps. There are probably solar panels around but I for one don't know how to hook them up, so hopefully somebody in The Hall Group will have the knowhow to do it.
As for communications, I'm not a radio ham and I don't know anybody who is. As I mentioned earlier we tried to contact other survivors by driving around our city tooting our horns, and sometimes we'd drive to neighbouring towns and cities in a 100-mile radius to toot, and even do it at night so we could scan the areas from hilltops looking for lights but everything was as black as your hat.
In 3 years we've only managed to get 15 members.
And we've kept our ears open for other people who come to our area to do some tooting, but haven't heard a sausage. Neither have we seen a single plane or helicopter.
Only static comes out of our TV's and radios, so no joy there, not even an official government channel seems to exist to clue us in about the big picture.
Question- how can we find out if there are any other survivors anywhere in the whole country or the world?
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: LvsChant on May 19, 2018, 06:09:07 AM
In three years' time, I would expect some subgroups to have formed into families within the 15.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: CharlesH on May 19, 2018, 07:20:41 AM
Staying armed is certainly a prudent way to mitigate risk.  It also comes with its own risks that need to be mitigated:  clearing procedures and an understanding of when a round should be in the chamber, keeping the weapon on safe, etc.  Noise  discipline should also be considered.  Practicing our marksmanship too close to the Hall would allow nefarious types to pinpoint us, scout us out, and ambush us.
 
The garden is nice.  I think one acre would be plenty the first year for both food and to begin laying in viable seed stock.  Along with gathering/gleaming wild stock we can keep an eye open for perennials for food as well.  I do like my annual veggies, though,  and I’m eager to find seed and get it growing before it all loses viability with age.  We’ll find stuff that has grown itself,  but a diverse garden is good and we need seed for that.

For communication with others, signage works.  Put up notices along roads well away from the Hall and direct people to another remote location where we could check once or twice a month to see if anyone is there.  The signs need to have a “first contact” protocol for both sides and the protocol should recognize that both sides are going to be initially wary of the other.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 20, 2018, 11:44:35 PM
In three years' time, I would expect some subgroups to have formed into families within the 15.

Yes sort of, for example the two under-10 kids sleep with "Auntie" as a substitute mum, but the teenager prefers his own room.
One or two males/females sleep together or pop into each others rooms for "visits" if they're feeling especially lonely, but others like to go it alone, whatever floats your boat..:)
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 20, 2018, 11:58:26 PM
Staying armed is certainly a prudent way to mitigate risk.  It also comes with its own risks that need to be mitigated:  clearing procedures and an understanding of when a round should be in the chamber, keeping the weapon on safe, etc.  Noise  discipline should also be considered.  Practicing our marksmanship too close to the Hall would allow nefarious types to pinpoint us, scout us out, and ambush us.

Yes, I think every one of us (except the youngest kids) should carry a gun at all times and be taught how to use it, and once we've learnt there'd be no need for regular firing practice sessions..:)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/tucker2_zps8nx415wg.jpg~original)

As a Brit I know zilch about guns but I think I'd like a short barrel .38 revolver because it's nice and handy, not too big and not too small. And I hear 'volvers never jam, which seems to be a big plus over automatics, what do you and other forum members think?

Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 21, 2018, 12:03:08 AM
The garden is nice.  I think one acre would be plenty the first year for both food and to begin laying in viable seed stock.  Along with gathering/gleaming wild stock we can keep an eye open for perennials for food as well.  I do like my annual veggies, though,  and I’m eager to find seed and get it growing before it all loses viability with age.  We’ll find stuff that has grown itself,  but a diverse garden is good and we need seed for that.

Yes, how long does seed last before it "dies"?
PS- and I've always wondered why old time sailors didn't take seeds and soil trays to sea with them so they could eliminate scurvy by growing veg?
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 21, 2018, 12:09:40 AM
For communication with others, signage works.  Put up notices along roads well away from the Hall and direct people to another remote location where we could check once or twice a month to see if anyone is there.  The signs need to have a “first contact” protocol for both sides and the protocol should recognize that both sides are going to be initially wary of the other.

Yeah but at this point we should decide whether our current group of 15 is quite big enough for now, or whether we should want any more new members at all for the time being?
As you say, broadcasting our presence to every Tom Dick Harry carries some risk..;)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/ram1.gif)



Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: CharlesH on May 21, 2018, 03:18:42 PM
Yes, I think every one of us (except the youngest kids) should carry a gun at all times and be taught how to use it, and once we've learnt there'd be no need for regular firing practice sessions..:)

As a Brit I know zilch about guns but I think I'd like a short barrel .38 revolver because it's nice and handy, not too big and not too small. And I hear 'volvers never jam, which seems to be a big plus over automatics, what do you and other forum members think?
 
Not only am I suggesting we learn how to fire them (use them),  but handle them safely.  I’d actually make the latter more a priority than the former.  We can probably all learn to suppress a threat pretty quickly and a few will be better at hitting targets and we will want to encourage that.  But given how few people are still alive, I think the bigger threat is from negligent discharges (the gun goes off unexpectedly).  I’ve seen that happen with handguns, rifles, and even an M240 machine gun.  So safety is critical, and often overlooked in my opinion.
 
Personal weapons will be a matter of choice.  If you like revolvers and are comfortable with the the .38I won’t dissuade you.  Though I may gently offer you some benefits to a .357 revolver, too.  I’d keep a collection and go with what made the most sense for the moment.  Off the top of my head I like the M4, M1A1 with a or 9mm.  I’d never carry more than one unless there was reason to think the threat level was elevated for us.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: CharlesH on May 21, 2018, 03:23:38 PM
Yes, how long does seed last before it "dies"?
PS- and I've always wondered why old time sailors didn't take seeds and soil trays to sea with them so they could eliminate scurvy by growing veg?
 
Some starts going bad after a season, but not all.  It’s a probability thing.  If we plant stuff now our year 1 yields will be lower than if the seed was fresh, but presumably we will have access to seed and can just plant that much more.  After the first year we ought to be ok on the annuals.
 
Same goes for feral livestock.  Whatever we find now is likely to have never lived with human contact, but the survivors will still have traits that made them valuable for domestication.  We keep our eyes open and start developing the herd we want among the diffent things we find.  I’m partial to finding some milk cows, but feral pigs can keep running wild and be shot/caught (remember noise discipline) as needed.
 
I’d like to try and trap honey bees, too.  I suspect those populations were decimated, but we can try to find and trap swarms and get whatever has managed to survive without human intervention.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: CharlesH on May 21, 2018, 03:25:49 PM
Yeah but at this point we should decide whether our current group of 15 is quite big enough for now, or whether we should want any more new members at all for the time being?
As you say, broadcasting our presence to every Tom Dick Harry carries some risk..;)

Agreed,  I thought the group wanted to do that, but it can still be debated.  One thing to think about over our evening conversations is that first contact protocol.  What scenarios are likely for meeting people?  What are some ways we want to handle those scenarios.  What are some procedures to have for when contact occurs?  Etc.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 21, 2018, 08:59:12 PM
Gamer quote- at this point we should decide whether our current group of 15 is quite big enough for now, or whether we should want any more new members at all for the time being?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed,  I thought the group wanted to do that, but it can still be debated..

Okay let's debate..:)
In your post #34 you said- "I think one acre would be plenty the first year for both food and to begin laying in viable seed stock. Along with gathering/gleaming wild stock we can keep an eye open for perennials for food as well. I do like my annual veggies, though, and I’m eager to find seed and get it growing before it all loses viability with age. We’ll find stuff that has grown itself, but a diverse garden is good and we need seed for that."

At the moment our group is 15-strong, so the vital question is how many more people will our one-acre spread be able to comfortably support?

To refresh our memories here's that pic again which gives a rough idea of what one acre looks like (including barbed wire coils round the house which I've added for security)-

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/one-acre-wire_zps686a1199.gif~original)


Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Morning Sunshine on May 21, 2018, 09:08:29 PM
there was a family in CA (who are no longer mentioned by name on this forum) who grew enough for their family of 4 on 1/5 of an acre.  They did vertical.

I think the big question, before we go on too much further - location.

Are we in England with you?  Are we in New England and needing to deal with those winters?  Or are we in the Eastern South - Georgia, Carolinas - and having to deal with those summers?  I am guessing, by those infernal trees, we are NOT in Arizona or Montana (oh, and the ocean front beach gives that away also  :P)  But maybe Seattle?  Or are we somehow in New Zealand?

That location will determine very much what we can grow and for how long.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 21, 2018, 09:37:31 PM
Personal weapons will be a matter of choice.  If you like revolvers and are comfortable with the the .38 I won’t dissuade you.  Though I may gently offer you some benefits to a .357 revolver, too.  I’d keep a collection and go with what made the most sense for the moment.  Off the top of my head I like the M4, M1A1 with a or 9mm.  I’d never carry more than one unless there was reason to think the threat level was elevated for us.

Yes any handgun bigger than a little .22" is fine by me..:)
And like you say, we'd have a range of weapons available at the Hall, for example when we go out foraging in the area or along the seashore, rifles would be the best bet in case we have to return long range sniper fire.
And if the Hall itself came under fire we'd holster our handguns and grab rifles to tackle the threat..:)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub4/sub4002/survs-garl_zps6pnmdpdy.jpg~original)
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 21, 2018, 09:52:05 PM
there was a family in CA (who are no longer mentioned by name on this forum) who grew enough for their family of 4 on 1/5 of an acre.  They did vertical.
I think the big question, before we go on too much further - location.

Does "they did vertical" mean they lived in an apartment block with a roof garden?
If they were the unconventional strong minded type they might be the sort we want in our group..:) 
As for location, the Hall is in any typical temperate zone anywhere in the world where preferably the summers are not unbearably hot and the winters are not unbearably cold..:)
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Smurf Hunter on May 21, 2018, 10:43:34 PM
Yes any handgun bigger than a little .22" is fine by me..:)
And like you say, we'd have a range of weapons available at the Hall, for example when we go out foraging in the area or along the seashore, rifles would be the best bet in case we have to return long range sniper fire.
And if the Hall itself came under fire we'd holster our handguns and grab rifles to tackle the threat..:)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub4/sub4002/survs-garl_zps6pnmdpdy.jpg~original)

I'm not an infantryman, but I watch movies.
Sometimes the most effective squad use of firearms is to lay down suppressing fire.  Keeping the other guy down allows your unit to move.  While any gun could accomplish this to a degree, a medium range carbine seems the popular form.

Long range precision fire has a distinct first mover advantage, but if you don't know where he is, but he knows where you are, you'd be better off spraying in the general direction than squeezing off a single shot with a bolt gun.

Any combat vets feel free to pick apart my potentially I'll informed understanding.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 22, 2018, 12:11:40 AM
..if you don't know where he is, but he knows where you are, you'd be better off spraying in the general direction than squeezing off a single shot with a bolt gun.

Agreed, okay Arnie?

"Yah, you betta believe it!"
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub4/sub4002/predator-firing_zpslzornwgw.jpg~original)

https://youtu.be/caW5-yguz2U
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: CharlesH on May 22, 2018, 02:08:52 AM
Gamer quote- at this point we should decide whether our current group of 15 is quite big enough for now, or whether we should want any more new members at all for the time being?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay let's debate..:)
In your post #34 you said- "I think one acre would be plenty the first year for both food and to begin laying in viable seed stock. Along with gathering/gleaming wild stock we can keep an eye open for perennials for food as well. I do like my annual veggies, though, and I’m eager to find seed and get it growing before it all loses viability with age. We’ll find stuff that has grown itself, but a diverse garden is good and we need seed for that."

At the moment our group is 15-strong, so the vital question is how many more people will our one-acre spread be able to comfortably support?

My 1-acre suggestion is for the 15 here now, plus building up a supply of fresh seed stock.  If we decide to increase the size of our group I believe the area selected will also allow us to scale up our acreage.
 
long-term (more than a couple generations into the future) I suspect humanity will re-consolidate and grow into larger communities.  It seems to be in our dna (think hunter/gatherers to Olmecs to Maya to Aztec in the ancient Western Hemisphere).  I’m hoping we will have a plan for being part of the solution to how that future consolidation will look, and not simply get subsumed into whatever vision some other group decides for us.
 
I think your analysis is correct Smurf Hunter.  The best solution for us obviously is never to need to pull the trigger in the first place, but if we do have to fight then suppression has it’s place:  fix your enemy with one part of your force, while maneuvering into position to eliminate them with another.  Of course, in this brave new world even an otherwise minor flesh wound could prove deadly so keeping the lead out of the air still makes the most sense in my opinion.
 
Based on the picture I envisioned us in the mid Atlantic or southern US but I don’t know the answer to that either.  Did you mention it already Gamer?
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 22, 2018, 10:11:14 AM
My 1-acre suggestion is for the 15 here now, plus building up a supply of fresh seed stock.  If we decide to increase the size of our group I believe the area selected will also allow us to scale up our acreage...
Based on the picture I envisioned us in the mid Atlantic or southern US but I don’t know the answer to that either.  Did you mention it already Gamer?

The Hall is in any temperate climate anywhere in the world where the extremes of temperature are not unbearable in summer and winter.
As for seeds, yeah we definitely need to get things growing, because at the moment we're getting a bit fed up with fish from the river and shellfish from the seashore. Our crack shots are keeping us supplied with rabbits and the odd deer and partridge, but our bodies are telling us they crave green stuff too.
Below is our ultimate aim, a nice little growing area behind the Hall, but first we need seed.
Question- where can we get the seed from?

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub4/sub4002/hall-veg_zpsdeohnqp3.jpg~original)
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: DrJohn on May 22, 2018, 10:17:59 AM
Does anyone have any thoughts about fresh water for 15 souls?  Is there a usable well?  What about sanitation?  Is there a septic system? 
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Morning Sunshine on May 22, 2018, 11:54:19 AM
Does "they did vertical" mean they lived in an apartment block with a roof garden?

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1146&bih=883&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=fFgEW_LjMunMjwSuqLoo&q=vertical+vegetable+garden&oq=vertical+vegetable+garden&gs_l=img.3..0l10.26127.27837.0.28209.10.10.0.0.0.0.258.1333.0j4j3.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..5.5.1037...0i7i30k1.0.VHhsH6uWhlE#imgrc=jfJYYqfypl_VPM:

squash, tomatoes, cucumbers, strawberries, leafy greens, etc.  All growing UP instead of OUT
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: CharlesH on May 22, 2018, 06:12:03 PM
As regards finding seed.  I’d start at lunch cal garden supply stores.  They probably have racks of seed, even if the plague hit in early fall.  Take everything there and try to grow it.  Other places to look Are Walmart type stores.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: CharlesH on May 22, 2018, 06:19:02 PM
Does anyone have any thoughts about fresh water for 15 souls?  Is there a usable well?  What about sanitation?  Is there a septic system?
 
15 people can crap in outhouses if necessary.  No septic needed for this number in my opinion.  But we do need a couple outhouses and a plan to rotate them to new locations.
 
A well would be nice.  And this may be something solar can help with:  pump water when it’s sunny into a storage receptacle.
 
After three years are lead-acid or lithium ion batteries still useful?
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: LvsChant on May 22, 2018, 08:13:33 PM
Probably the danger from feral animals is greater than any threat by other humans if the population is that diminished. It would be good to have a plan in place in the case of unknown person/persons arriving, but that seems less likely than the possibility of predators or packs of wild dogs, etc.

As MS mentioned, perhaps site selection should be re-visited... a good source for fresh water plus septic system seems rather crucial to good living to me. If the hall doesn't have these things, perhaps a better site in a more defensible position could be found... and it may well be that people prefer to live in separate houses in a neighborhood rather than altogether in one big mansion.

Also, I'm a bit surprised that foodstores in the populated areas ran out/spoiled in only 3 years... I'd imagine gathering goods (including seed stock) from the towns would still be worth an occasional foray. Most of the canned food should still be fine, too. Probably there were a good many gardens growing 3 years ago when the majority of the population died... probably there are some gardens that have self propagated that could be used as a good source of seed as well.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 23, 2018, 12:21:21 AM
As MS mentioned, perhaps site selection should be re-visited... a good source for fresh water plus septic system seems rather crucial to good living to me. If the hall doesn't have these things, perhaps a better site in a more defensible position could be found... and it may well be that people prefer to live in separate houses in a neighborhood rather than altogether in one big mansion.
Does anyone have any thoughts about fresh water for 15 souls?  Is there a usable well?  What about sanitation?  Is there a septic system?

Here are my pics of the Hall again, tell me if I've overlooked anything, but it's a good solid stone-built house surrounded by excellent potential food sources, namely fish from the river, shellfish, seaweed and salt from the seashore, bunnies and birds from the fields and woods, wild berries, fruit, mushrooms and wild honey if we're lucky, good fertile soil all around for growing things, plus plenty of firewood.
The river provides us with fresh water (shall we boil it first?) and do we really need a well? And the river also doubles as a latrine so long as we remember to empty our buckets downstream, or do we need septic tanks/pits? 

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub4/sub4002/The_Hall_zpszq7n1mhm.jpg~original)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub4/sub4002/The_Hall2_zpsboh4jnbu.jpg~original)


As for living in a neighbourhood in our own separate homes, it's a matter of preference, but post-apoc cities don't provide as much aforementioned benefits as the Hall would.
Concrete jungles will be pretty bleak barren rat-infested places, especially when the shelves become empty..

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/bare-sheves_zpse622b406.jpg~original)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Sci-Fi-CityA.jpg~original)

"Pray that this will not take place in winter, because those will be days of distress unequalled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now--and never to be equalled again.
If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive.
Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come.
What I say to you, I say to everyone: ‘Watch!"- Jesus of Nazareth, Mark ch 13

Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 23, 2018, 12:51:59 AM
..I'm a bit surprised that foodstores in the populated areas ran out/spoiled in only 3 years... I'd imagine gathering goods (including seed stock) from the towns would still be worth an occasional foray. Most of the canned food should still be fine, too. Probably there were a good many gardens growing 3 years ago when the majority of the population died... probably there are some gardens that have self propagated that could be used as a good source of seed as well.

Yes, forays into cities will be on our agenda to pick up anything we can use such as guns/tools/seeds/medicines/matches/batteries/paraffin/candles/bottled water/booze etc), and hopefully some types of canned foods might still be edible but the bottom line is that everything will run out eventually, but hopefully by that time we'll have got ourselves well-established and will be whooping it up at the Hall..:)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/party.jpg~original)

Question- how long will petrol/gasoline/diesel be available for our foray vehicles? Presumably there are thousands of gallons of the stuff in the underground tanks at filling stations, but how will we get it up as the electric pumps won't be working?
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: CharlesH on May 23, 2018, 04:36:13 AM
A well is better for fresh water than the river, although boiling/filtering river water works.  Rivers may have heavy metals and other contaminates washing in from upstream.  Plus people up river from us might be using it as a latrine...
 
I’ll bet this place already has a well based on it’s remoteness from an urban drinking supply.  We just have to get the water up from it without lowering contamination down into it.  I suspect this is doable even if it’s a small 4” pipe.  We just have to think it through.
 
The remote location also argues for there already being a septic system.  If it’s not a gravity fed system we’ll have to work on it to meet our needs, but I it’s probably here and probably in good shape.  In the meantime, outhouses aren’t so bad. 
 
We should also be burying our trash rather than sending it down river. 
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Hurricane on May 23, 2018, 02:42:33 PM
You can get "buckets" to drop down inside a well casing.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: CharlesH on May 23, 2018, 04:45:14 PM
You can get "buckets" to drop down inside a well casing.
 
That’s cool.  I didn’t think about that.  We could devise something the diameter of the well. Weight it, and bring up water without electricity.  I’m sure we could also channel river water through a sand/earth filter for our non-potable needs.  If the septic is gravity fed we’re in business.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Dave in Broadway, NC on May 23, 2018, 10:30:26 PM
What the heck...I'm in.

Retired military here.

Harkening back to an earlier post about composite risk management used by the military (US, anyway), there are two elements of risk: likelihood and severity. We should assess several risk factors (20 would be a good number to start with) and prioritize risk mitigation measures.

I'll start.

Running out of ammo. Likelihood high. Severity high. Mitigation - implement hunting and physical security practices that do not require small arms as primary weapon. Need to construct/employ bows and arrows, snares, traps, e.g. Implement defense measures that do not depend on suppressive fire and "spraying" targets.  Construct turning obstacles to canalize targets where they can be engaged with precision fire. Establish primary, secondary and alternate fighting positions with good cover for withdrawal.

Running out of food. Likelihood moderate. Severity high. Mitigation - extend the defensible perimeter to include garden and livestock. Agree with others on the need to gather as much seed and appropriate as much livestock as possible.

Suffering from cold weather from late fall through early spring. Likelihood high. Severity high. Mitigation - start work now to lay in fire wood.

Medical emergencies. Likelihood high. Severity high. Mitigation - identify someone in the group with the most medical experience to be the doctor. Scout the countryside for anything that can be used to develop homeopathic remedies. As able, cultivate a medicinal herb garden.

Exhaustion. Likelihood high. Severity moderate. Mitigation - develop work/rest plans that balance physical security, procuring/growing food and attending to long-term preps.

Illness from food-borne disease and contaminated water. Likelihood high. Severity high. Mitigation - good sanitation is paramount.

Just a start. Invite others to add more.

Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: CharlesH on May 24, 2018, 04:24:19 AM
I’ll put one I mentioned earlier into Dave’s format:
 
Negligent Weapon Discharge:  likelihood moderate - severity high.  Mitigation:  Insure everyone is familiar with how to clear their firearms of ammunition.  Have a plan for where rounds are in the firearm and enforce it (magazine in your pocket - magazine in your weapon no round in the chamber - round in the chamber weapon on safe - round in chamber weapon on fire.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 25, 2018, 12:13:51 PM
Retired military here.
Running out of ammo. Likelihood high.
Running out of food. Likelihood moderate.
Suffering from cold weather from late fall through early spring. Likelihood high.
Medical emergencies. Likelihood high.
Exhaustion. Likelihood high.
Illness from food-borne disease and contaminated water. Likelihood high.

Hi Dave, military men will be worth their weight in gold when it hits the fan, so welcome..:)
I almost joined the Brit Army many years ago in my teens and sent off for a glossy brochure, but changed my mind. Got a shock a couple of weeks later when a 'Sergeant Butterfield' came knocking my door on a courtesy follow-up visit in full dress uniform, stripes and all, so I dived behind the settee to take cover til he'd gone! Scared the life out of me and I never heard from him again..:)
You covered the risk factors real good, can I just pick up on a few-
1- Would it be possible to make our own bullets further down the line if we ever had to?
2- Food shortage will certainly hit us if we accept too many extra mouths into our group, there are currently 15 of us so we'll have to think twice before accepting any more.
3-Cold weather- I plan to put on an extra pair of socks and shirt.
4- Medical emergencies and illness will be a hassle when the medicines that we've liberated from pharmacies run out or lose their goodness, so I suppose we'll have to muddle through. At least we'll have obtained medical books for our library to help us.
5- Exhaustion- yeah, if things get rough we'll have to bust our asses doing odd jobs and food planting/gathering etc, how about it Bob?-

"Take the pain! TAKE THE PAIN!"
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/platoon-1986_zpspn1zvr6c.jpg~original)
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 25, 2018, 12:16:20 PM
I’ll put one I mentioned earlier into Dave’s format:
  Negligent Weapon Discharge:  likelihood moderate - severity high.  Mitigation:  Insure everyone is familiar with how to clear their firearms of ammunition.  Have a plan for where rounds are in the firearm and enforce it (magazine in your pocket - magazine in your weapon no round in the chamber - round in the chamber weapon on safe - round in chamber weapon on fire.

As a Brit, guns terrify me and I've only ever held one once in my life when I was about 5 and my dad let me handle (but not fire) it, he brought it back from WW2 (he was an aircraft mechanic) and I can still remember how heavy and cold it felt, (I think it was a chunky square Colt Browning?)
He made me promise not to tell anybody he'd got it.
I never saw it again, years later I think I asked him where it was and he said something like "What gun are you talking about? I haven't got a gun".
I searched the house but couldn't find it, he probably threw it away.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: LvsChant on May 25, 2018, 01:31:58 PM
I'm thinking your concerns should be more long-term than short-term. For example:  The current approximate population of England is 53 million, living on 50,301 sq miles (32,192,640 acres), which is equivalent of approx. .6 acres per person. If my math is correct, only approximately 53000 people remain (607 acres per person).

Let's say (worst case), your group came out of London- current pop. 8.788 million (who could expect to have had 8788 total survivors -- not counting any who died after the initial plague?). With the total square miles of London being 611 (391,040 acres), each survivor would have had app. 44.5 acres available... of city scape - crammed with businesses, homes, all sorts of stuff everywhere! If the stores were stocked for 3 days' supply (as is typical in the US), let's assume the food stock on hand when the crisis began was 8,788,000 (# people) x 3 days = 263,640,000 person day's food supplies. Let say that 2/3 was perishable -- that still leaves 87,880,000 person-day's of food. So... everyone didn't die on the first day, so maybe only half of that was remaining on the store shelves or in transport trucks at the end... 43,940,000 person-day's supply of food. If you divide that by the remaining 8788 people who survived the initial crisis, that still leaves approximately 5000 days' supplies of food available to each person -- not counting any fresh veges/fruit/fresh meat from hunting...

The abundance of goods, natural resources, etc. is huge, considering the very small percentage of survivors. While I agree about the need for gardening, cultivating and maintaining infrastructure, it seems to be that the threat of other humans is pretty small. 

Planning for the future and especially for the survival of the race seems more important... and I don't think we need to worry about running out of food if more people join our group. we should welcome them if they can get along...
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 26, 2018, 09:08:50 AM
..I don't think we need to worry about running out of food if more people join our group. we should welcome them if they can get along..

If food runs short we'll tell newcomers LvsChant is happy to share his with them..;)
As for "getting along" with people, if newcomers are a pain in the butt we'll kick 'em out, I personally can't suffer fools at all..:)
The Survivors (1975) episode called 'New Arrivals' touched on the theme, it seems to have vanished from youtube but here's a still I made from it when it was around.
Young agricultural college graduate Mark (circled) joins the group and although he's a whizz at growing stuff, his manner is rude and offensive and bad for everybody's morale.
Here he is trying to lay down the law once too often.
They don't actually kick him out, but their coldness towards him makes him realise he's not wanted, so he saddles his horse and rides on out, taking his bad vibes with him..:)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Survivors-newarrivs.gif)

“Associate yourself with men of good quality, for ‘tis better to be alone than in bad company"- George Washington
"He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm" (Bible: Proverbs 13:20)
"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another" (Bible:Proverbs 27:17)
"If you hang around with losers you become a loser"- Donald Trump

 
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: CharlesH on May 27, 2018, 06:28:38 AM
Military experience is certainly valuable in a scenario like this, but I’d argue it is less because of weapons training (as LvsChant mentioned, there aren’t too many people left to shoot) and more because of the training we received in being mission focused, planners that focus on the mission, and practicioners of “planned spontaneity”.  We also look at the “enemy” as more than just the bad guys, it’s anything that keeps us from accomplishing the mission.  Corporate management and others share this mindset, but in the military we do it under life and death situations during war and at does make us different I think.
 
A mission needs some thought, it should be general enough to last a while but specific enough to focus the group’s effort.  “Stay alive another day” doesn’t seem to give us much direction.  “Create the seeds of a new civilization to  repopulate the world” maybe focuses too much on the far distant future.  Some sort of broad statement that we can bounce day-to-day ideas off of is good.
 
Planning is another thing that the military excels at.  Anyone who has had to sit through a full up Military Decision Making Process, knows it is a special kind of hell.  I don’t recommend it to a group like this.  But it offers valuable tools.  One such tool is identifying constraints.  Did everyone notice two groups in this discussion that formed around whether or not the house Gamer found was a good one?  Some felt it was a very bad choice.  Others didn’t really talk about the choice of house but opened dialogue on other issues for the group.  For the latter group the house was a constraint:  this is where we are staying so we will focus our mission on other things within the constraint of having this house.  There is nothing wrong with criticizing a constraint and asking for it to be removed.  But once higher hqs says the constraint stays you move on.  One of my old military supervisors put it like this:  “you pee with the pecker god gave you”.
 
Once you have your mission and have planned how to accomplish it, crap happens and you have to do something else on the fly. This is where “planned spontaneity comes in.  When the enemy throws a wrench in your system, you don’t ask him to wait a minute while you re-plan the operation you do something.  If they ambush you you lay down suppressive fire and maneuver into a position to kill them.  If your comms go out you use a backup.  If a soldier drops from heat exhaustion you call in a medevac with a 9-line.  Yes plans change.  But the army backs up plans with procedures for a variety of contingencies so we can deal with them quickly.  The procedures are the “planned” the recognition that no matter what happens we’ll do something is the “spontaneity”.
 
Building those procedures means looking at the enemy not only as people but anything that can keep you from accomplishing your mission.  It can be injury (combat lifesaving procedure), ambush (actions on contact), communication (PACE plan, Primary, Alternate, Contingency, and Emergency means of communication), weather, insects, disease, etc. The procedures are the way we mitigate risks to accomplishing our mission.  Dave got us launched on risk mitigation quite well.
 
Yes, I think in a post apocalypse military folks will be money.  And if shooting is involved I suspect most would hold their own.  But their real value will be keeping us alive by applying the lessons they’ve learned in preparing for change, planning for a mission, and executing to accomplish a mission.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 28, 2018, 04:01:16 AM
..Planning is another thing that the military excels at.  Anyone who has had to sit through a full up Military Decision Making Process, knows it is a special kind of hell..

Hopefully our group will be clear-thinking enough to keep things simple so we can adapt, improvise and overcome in all situations..:)
"Great leaders are almost always great simplifiers who can cut through argument, debate and doubt, to offer a solution everybody can understand" -Gen. Colin Powell

Schwarzkopf in action-
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub4/sub4002/schwarzkopf-mapwar_zpsm2pqkghs.jpg~original)

Our simple top-priority objective is to put enough food on the table for at least one square meal per day, every day, pull up a chair..:)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub4/sub4002/feasting-hall_zpsgtxhodpw.jpg~original)

At the moment there are still a few unanswered questions from earlier in this thread that we need to systematically address one by one, and learn from each others comments and opinions before moving on to the next question.
For example how long will petrol/gasoline/diesel be available for our forage vehicles and generators?
It's all there in underground tanks at filling stations, but how will we get it up as there's no electricity to power the pumps? And as a matter of interest, will it be good for hundreds of years, or will it eventually evaporate away?

PS- for any popcorn-munching readers of this thread out there, don't be shy, come and post in it if you like, there's no bouncer on the door..:)
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: CharlesH on May 28, 2018, 06:43:44 AM
Quote
how long will petrol/gasoline/diesel be available for our forage vehicles and generators?
It's all there in underground tanks at filling stations, but how will we get it up as there's no electricity to power the pumps? And as a matter of interest, will it be good for hundreds of years, or will it eventually evaporate away?
 
After three years both gas and diesel may be pretty skunked.  Gas that was treated with some sort of stabilizer should give it at least a year of life and I read on “Off the Grid” for this post that stabilizer can give gas a couple years lease on life.  Diesel used to seem to last forever, but that wasn’t really true.  It gathers water to it, so diesel in tanks where condensation was possible may have a lot of water now.  And there are algae that grow in it too.  There used to be diesel stabilizers that would inhibit algae growth but I don’t know if they are still available.  Even if diesel was treated with one three years ago i’m not sure how long those mixes work.  Anyone know?
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: LvsChant on May 28, 2018, 09:22:21 AM
What about avgas? And is there a supply nearby? I think it stores much longer. Likewise propane, which is pretty common in the US... This is one reason that it is vital to try to keep/gain any technical expertise in the engineering/technician world in our group. Are there any natural gas supplies/wells in the region? Can we keep it going enough to supply the hall?

Can any of our equipment be retrofitted to operate with these more stable fuel sources?

As for diesel engines... remember that there are ways to  prepare cooking oil to burn (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi1cqmvio5Y) as biofuel for diesel engines... (I know it isn't an efficient long-range possibility, but maybe it offers us a chance to extend the lives of those diesel engines).

There may be stockpiles of vegetable oil in warehouses that could be used for this purpose for farm equipment.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 28, 2018, 12:41:31 PM
After three years both gas and diesel may be pretty skunked.
What about avgas?..propane..natural gas supplies/wells in the region?..cooking oil to burn as biofuel for diesel engines...vegetable oil in warehouses that could be used for this purpose for farm equipment.

Luckily, (and correct me if I'm wrong), we wouldn't need gallons and gallons of stuff to make our vehicles go, as we'd only need just a small regular supply which should hopefully be relatively easy to get.
For example we'd only take our truck out on foraging expeditions to local towns and cities within a 50-mile radius now and again, a round trip of say a hundred miles, how much fuel would that need?
As regards farm vehicles, we'd only need to crank up our tractor once in a while for a spot of ploughing wouldn't we?
In fact in a worst case scenario where there wasn't a drop of vehicle fuel anywhere, I daresay we could get by with bicycle forage trips, and do any ploughing by hand or with a horse couldn't we?

 
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Morning Sunshine on May 28, 2018, 12:50:43 PM
I think we should make bicycles a priority, actually. 

quieter than vehicles for opsec.
No need to worry about fuel.
if we can use black-top roads, the bikes would last a long time.
There are lots of designs for carrying people and supplies by bike - https://www.worksmancycles.com/
look at these - https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/4-passenger-bike.html
easier to fix when break-downs occur
can even get small engines to run hybrid bikes.
could get some dirt bikes for riding around the homestead and to and from the ocean

make one of our last vehicles runs a raid on a bike shop or two.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 28, 2018, 01:07:52 PM
I think we should make bicycles a priority, actually..

Saddle up..:)

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/FamilyBikingZ.jpg)

The zombs may take the cities and the main roads and the gas stations, but they'll never take a cyclists FREEDOM!
Random pics from the net-
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/push9.jpg)


Bypassing zomb roadblocks on the main roads-
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/bikes-rough.gif)


The wheels take all the weight, not your knee joints-
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/scotland-cyclist1.jpg)



Walk up all the hills, never push the pace and you can go on forever-
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/push2.jpg)


(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/push4.jpg)

Just pull off the road and set up camp anywhere-
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/push8.jpg)

Here's my bike (below) in the middle of Wales some years ago, I did about 70 miles that day. My sleeping bag and food are crammed into the saddlebag and my tent is strapped on top.
The orange waterproof jacket is lashed over the whole caboodle to rainproof everything-
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/cycle-campWales1.gif)
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 29, 2018, 02:51:25 AM
A well is better for fresh water than the river, although boiling/filtering river water works.  Rivers may have heavy metals and other contaminates washing in from upstream.  Plus people up river from us might be using it as a latrine...

The remote location also argues for there already being a septic system.  If it’s not a gravity fed system we’ll have to work on it to meet our needs, but I it’s probably here and probably in good shape.  In the meantime, outhouses aren’t so bad. 
 
We should also be burying our trash rather than sending it down river.

1- If we dig a well how can we be sure there'll be water down there?
And is there any guarantee it'll be fresher than river water?
The chances of our river being contaminated by heavy metals and people upstream are low anyway, and the river is all we've got at the moment.
HEY an idea!- we can use solar stills to distill sea water!

2- What exactly is a "septic system"? if it's a hole or tank in the ground won't it fill up eventually? How will we empty it?

3- As for "burying our trash", what sort of trash will it be? Most trash in our current world is food wrappings, newspapers and stuff like that, but in a post-apoc world nothing will be wrapped will it?
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: LvsChant on May 29, 2018, 06:17:27 AM
basics of a septic system:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udBaGyzJyU8
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 29, 2018, 11:36:58 AM
basics of a septic system:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udBaGyzJyU8
Looks too complicated for me mate, she says you have to hire somebody to keep coming to pump out your septic tank, but in a post-apoc world where would we find such a dood?
And in a post-apoc world the amount of sewage the few surviving humans will be churning out will be unnoticeable in the general environment, as thousands of wild animals and birds and fish are continually crapping and peeing everywhere, so our little bit extra wouldn't make much difference and we can just empty our buckets downriver and let nature break it down with sunlight and fresh air couldn't we?
Even if we had our own septic tank we'd have to somehow pump it out ourselves when it got full, and where would we dump the stuff then?
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: CharlesH on May 29, 2018, 02:54:50 PM
1- If we dig a well how can we be sure there'll be water down there?
And is there any guarantee it'll be fresher than river water?
The chances of our river being contaminated by heavy metals and people upstream are low anyway, and the river is all we've got at the moment.
HEY an idea!- we can use solar stills to distill sea water!
 
While nothing is 100% in this new world, the odds of well water being fresher than river water probably approach 100%.  Especially since I doubt we have to dig one.  If this is a rural house anywhere beyond the reach of city water service, I bet it has a well.  It will be a pipe of 4-8” (US measurements) sticking a foot or two out of the ground.  Someone earlier mentioned that we can fashion a bucket system to pull water up, or that the buckets are for sale in some places.  I like that idea.  There is a chance of bacteria down there after three years so I’d dump some bleach down it first.  Pull out water until the bleach smell is gone and it should be good.  Again, if this house is away from town, the well is probably already there waiting for us.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: CharlesH on May 29, 2018, 03:06:56 PM
Looks too complicated for me mate, she says you have to hire somebody to keep coming to pump out your septic tank, but in a post-apoc world where would we find such a dood?
And in a post-apoc world the amount of sewage the few surviving humans will be churning out will be unnoticeable in the general environment, as thousands of wild animals and birds and fish are continually crapping and peeing everywhere, so our little bit extra wouldn't make much difference and we can just empty our buckets downriver and let nature break it down with sunlight and fresh air couldn't we?
Even if we had our own septic tank we'd have to somehow pump it out ourselves when it got full, and where would we dump the stuff then?
 
Septic systems are often not too bad.  Like the well, my bet is the house has a system already if it is away from town.  If the system is gravity fed there are really no moving parts at all:  you can fill the toilet reservoirs with water from the river and flush just like the old days.  As for emptying it, in my area they only need emptied every 5+ years.  15 people might fill the tank with waste faster than a normal family, but we won’t be running much grey water through it so maybe not.
 
Emptying it is going to be smelly but it’s only going to be necessary once or twice a decade.  I don’t want to minimize the stink, but the hatch on the tank is probably 1-2’ square so it could be emptied with buckets.  It would be a 1-2 day full time job and stink to high heaven.  The sludge is probably organic and can be composted and used for fertilizer if we can convince the group to not freak about it being human waste.
   
Outhouses work well.  They can fill, and they can stink.  But they can be moved regularly and they provide organic material in the soil where they were located.  The river is certainly an option.  Maybe it’s just me.  Sending our toilet paper, sanitary products, and crap down the river just seems like a bad idea (and as long as the toilet paper lasts, I for one would like to use it).  Why run the risk of a zomb group finding something washed ashore just a few miles down river of us?
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: mountainmoma on May 29, 2018, 03:16:45 PM
Looks too complicated for me mate, she says you have to hire somebody to keep coming to pump out your septic tank, but in a post-apoc world where would we find such a dood?
And in a post-apoc world the amount of sewage the few surviving humans will be churning out will be unnoticeable in the general environment, as thousands of wild animals and birds and fish are continually crapping and peeing everywhere, so our little bit extra wouldn't make much difference and we can just empty our buckets downriver and let nature break it down with sunlight and fresh air couldn't we?
Even if we had our own septic tank we'd have to somehow pump it out ourselves when it got full, and where would we dump the stuff then?

It has been 20 years and I have never had my septic tank pumped. Dont put stuff in that cant be decomposed by the resident bacteria ( rinse the dirt off produce outside) dont put stuff in that kills the resident bacteria.

That said, composting toilet are very simple, they get emptied to feed the orchard trees. Raised platform, with 2 bays to compost, 2 holes up top. Use one for a year, move the seat to the other while the first composts. Empty to feed the trees, etc...

   

Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 29, 2018, 04:13:23 PM
..Septic systems are often not too bad..Emptying it is going to be smelly..
The river is certainly an option..
Good for you mate, you and any others in our little group are of course welcome to create and use your own septic tank and outhouses and empty them yourselves, (preferably when the wind is blowing away from us in the Hall) while the rest of us barbarians will just keep slinging the contents of our buckets downriver as usual..;)
As for using the stuff as fertiliser, you shitters will be quite free to apply it to your own specific fenced-off area of the vegetable plot and orchard..;)


..composting toilet are very simple, they get emptied to feed the orchard trees..
Well that's alright momma, but to cut down on your workload, please feed only your own trees in an area behind the Hall and please PLEASE don't feed ours..;)

Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Morning Sunshine on May 29, 2018, 04:27:41 PM
Incidentally, our group won't have a "leader", we'll be a democracy all chipping in with ideas for discussion and friendly debate, then going with the ones the majority likes best..;)
Regarding education, our kids will no doubt find it fascinating to see pics of the Old World in books (planes, ships, trains etc) and will be asking us "what was it like", so in the interest of balance, can I just chip in and suggest we don't forget to tell them that it wasn't all sweetness and light, and that it could be a (gulp) very scary, smelly overcrowded place at times..
Good for you mate, you and any others in our little group are of course welcome to create and use your own septic tank and outhouses and empty them yourselves, (preferably when the wind is blowing away from us in the Hall) while the rest of us barbarians will just keep slinging the contents of our buckets downriver as usual..;)
As for using the stuff as fertiliser, you shitters will be quite free to apply it to your own specific fenced-off area of the vegetable plot and orchard..;)

Well that's alright momma, but to cut down on your workload, please feed only your own trees in an area behind the Hall and please PLEASE don't feed ours..;)

Sounds like you have a pre-conceived notion of how this Hall community will be working, and any ideas are not open for debate or discussion.  :-X
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: CharlesH on May 29, 2018, 05:41:14 PM
Sounds like you have a pre-conceived notion of how this Hall community will be working, and any ideas are not open for debate or discussion.  :-X
 
 :-[. There’s probably a place (upriver) for us human waste fertilizing whackos...  let’s look for one with a well and gravity fed septic system for starters.  And I’m bringing all the toilet paper I can lay my hands on!
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 29, 2018, 08:11:02 PM
Sounds like you have a pre-conceived notion of how this Hall community will be working, and any ideas are not open for debate or discussion.  :-X

Like I said mate, people can crap in septic tanks and outhouses if they like, and "fertilise" their own fenced-off areas of the veg plot and orchard provided they don't try to get the rest of us to help empty the friggin things, or try to "fertilise" our part of the veg and orchard area with the stuff..:)
If I was a tyrant I'd ban "fertilising" outright on the grounds that the stink would be too much to bear and would attract flies like a Nam rice paddy..:)

Mekong Delta 1963
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub1/MekongDelta63.jpg)
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: mountainmoma on May 29, 2018, 09:24:01 PM
Good for you mate, you and any others in our little group are of course welcome to create and use your own septic tank and outhouses and empty them yourselves, (preferably when the wind is blowing away from us in the Hall) while the rest of us barbarians will just keep slinging the contents of our buckets downriver as usual..;)
As for using the stuff as fertiliser, you shitters will be quite free to apply it to your own specific fenced-off area of the vegetable plot and orchard..;)

Well that's alright momma, but to cut down on your workload, please feed only your own trees in an area behind the Hall and please PLEASE don't feed ours..;)

you do have alot of preconceived notions. I have lived in and used septic and composted humanure, there is no mess, smell or anything like that.

A septic system that is not abused never has to be "emptied", that is rather the point, the organisms eat everything and it goes out in the leach field on its own

Compost from a proper, hot composted  composting toilet does not smell, it is not wet, it is like any other finished compost. Compost must be applied to to growing areas, or mulch or both or else the soil gets worn out and unfertile. 

Fecal matter must NEVER be thrown into a water way ! That is not normal human behavior and  we are smart enough to know how and why doing such a thing causes problems. Why in the world would you throw fecal mater into a river ? Land animals defacate on the soil. SO, bury it like all other land animals ( An outhouse is one way humans defecate into the soil for a period of time, then bury it), or use some of our gained knowledge to do something more convenient ( a septic system, anearobic decomposing) or that makes use of the fertility potential ( hot compost, aerobic decomposing)
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Dave in Broadway, NC on May 29, 2018, 09:27:19 PM
make one of our last vehicles runs a raid on a bike shop or two.

And if we come across any broken bikes we should grab a couple. Source of parts and you can use the frame to make a wheel hoe.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Dave in Broadway, NC on May 29, 2018, 09:28:58 PM
I'm thinking your concerns should be more long-term than short-term. For example:  The current approximate population of England is 53 million, living on 50,301 sq miles (32,192,640 acres), which is equivalent of approx. .6 acres per person. If my math is correct, only approximately 53000 people remain (607 acres per person).

Lvs, if this is your beer math, I'd hate to see you with a calculator  ;)
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: mountainmoma on May 29, 2018, 09:33:59 PM
 
 :-[. There’s probably a place (upriver) for us human waste fertilizing whackos...  let’s look for one with a well and gravity fed septic system for starters.  And I’m bringing all the toilet paper I can lay my hands on!

I just joined your group and left to move to a site upriver where we can be sensible about sanitation
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: LvsChant on May 29, 2018, 10:31:51 PM
Charles, MS and MM: I'm with you.
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Chemsoldier on May 30, 2018, 06:03:46 AM
Does Charles Xavier know you guys are squatting in his house?
Title: Re: THE HALL
Post by: Gamer on May 30, 2018, 07:59:02 AM
Well guys and gals, early in this sensational thread I said our Hall group would be run as a democracy with everybody chipping in with ideas and we'd go with the ideas the majority liked best.
But somebody then said a democracy might not be a good idea, as a strong leader would probably emerge.
I'm now inclined to agree with him, as having a good strong hardass leader around would give everybody a warm fuzzy feeling knowing he's got their backs..:)
So, as this is my thread and my Hall, and as I've got the love of Jesus in my baby-blue eyes, I'm stepping up to the plate as your Beloved Leader and issuing my first edict, namely that if anybody wants to crap in septic tanks/outhouses (our 'Shitter faction') they're free to do so, and if anybody prefers to sling their crap in the river (our 'Bucket faction') they're free to do that too.
However, a friendly warning to the shitters- if the stink of your "fertiliser" makes the rest of us gag we'll have to close you down..:)-

"And don't you ever forget it!"
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/bouncerzia34.png~original)