The Survival Podcast Forum

Survivalism & Self Sufficiency Topics => Medical Needs and First Aid => Topic started by: surfivor on March 26, 2019, 12:21:54 PM

Title: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: surfivor on March 26, 2019, 12:21:54 PM


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/03/26/nyregion/measles-rockland-county.amp.html

Rockland County, a suburb of New York City, will declare a state of emergency and bar minors who are unvaccinated against measles from being in public places, the latest effort to fight New York State’s worst measles outbreak in decades.

The declaration will take effect at midnight on Tuesday and expires in 30 days.

..

Rockland County, which has a population of more than 300,000 people, has had 153 confirmed cases of measles since October, a county spokesman, John G. Lyon, said. Of those, 48 have come in 2019.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: Mr. Bill on March 26, 2019, 03:17:12 PM
Text of the declaration is here (3-page PDF):

http://rocklandgov.com/files/2015/5362/9503/SOE_-_Measles_Directive_2019-03-26.pdf
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: surfivor on March 26, 2019, 04:52:24 PM
I find it interesting that they are seeming to try to pin it on orthodox jews.

 Banning people or children from public places is in many ways on the path towards forced vaccinations

https://www.jta.org/quick-reads/new-york-county-with-orthodox-enclave-declares-emergency-over-measles-outbreak

The outbreak was centered in an Orthodox Jewish community where many residents had not been vaccinated, CBS News New York reported. Most of the cases now are clustered in eastern Ramapo, home to a high percentage of haredi Orthodox Jews.

=============

could be they figured out a way of targeting those jews because of their refusal to vaccinate

https://forward.com/news/national/417976/hasidic-anti-vaxxers-defy-rabbis-measles-outbreak-vaccines/

Some major rabbis have said it’s okay not to vaccinate children before sending them to school, including three members of the top rabbinical council of Agudath Israel of America, the leading ultra-Orthodox umbrella organization. The three rabbis signed onto a letter that stated that any parent who “done his research” is allowed to go against the advice of the medical establishment. One of those rabbis called vaccines a “hoax” in a 2014 interview. Smaller yeshivas, or religious schools, are not as stringent about excluding unvaccinated kids as the larger ones, said Samuel Heilman, a professor of sociology at Queens College who has written extensively about the ultra-Orthodox community.

In some yeshivas in upstate New York, vaccination rates are as low as 60%, according to New York state health commissioner Dr. Howard Zucker. New York state’s overall vaccination rate is 92.5%.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: surfivor on March 30, 2019, 04:09:17 AM

Gary Null said the state of NY claimed there was 130 or something cases of measles when there was only 5 cases. I don’t know exactly but that is easily believable
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: surfivor on March 30, 2019, 07:16:45 AM

Gary Null on Friday interviewed a woman doctor about 30 or 31 minutes into the show. It seems to highlight many questions about CDC secrecy or lack of accurate information. It also points out people who are vaccinated may get vaccine induced measles which further can easily confuse what is really going on. Recently Gary Null pointed out that people from the CDC in the past had been involved in covering up the efffects of agent orange. He also covered criminal activity within the CDC connected to a Paul Thorsen fellow

https://thegarynullshow.podbean.com/e/the-gary-null-show-032919/

Dr. Meryl Nass is an internal medicine physician and activist who specializes in treating patients with Gulf War syndrome, adverse reactions fro the anthrax vaccine and vaccine safety and efficacy in general.  In the past she has testified on six separate occasions before Congress on behalf of veterans suffering from the causes of Gulf War syndrome. Meryl is also active in opposing vaccine mandates and critiquing the false claims and fear mongering about infectious disease epidemics and corruption within the medical industrial military complex.  She serves on the Board of the Alliance for Human Research Protection, a non profit organization run by Vera Sharav that advances medical ethics that uphold human rights and protect humans from wrongful medical interventions. Her work is cited in many professional articles and publications. She holds degrees from MIT and her medical degree from the Mississippi School of Medicine.  Dr Nass' website where she blogs isAnthraxVaccine.blogspot.com


———————-

Thorsen


https://worldmercuryproject.org/advocacy-policy/criminal-conduct-poul-thorsen/

The new evidence, recently uncovered Children’s Health Defense, shows that Thorsen and his collaborators did not obtain permission from an Institutional Review Board (IRB) to conduct their research, which was published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2002 and Pediatrics in 2003. In 2011, The Department of Justice indicted Thorsen on 22 counts of wire fraud and money laundering for stealing over $1 million in CDC grant money earmarked for autism research. The product of Thorsen’s work for CDC was a series of fraud-tainted articles on Danish autism rates that, today, form the backbone of the popular orthodoxy that vaccines don’t cause autism.

In 2009, when CDC discovered that Thorsen never applied for the IRB approvals, staff did not report the errors and retract the studies. Rather, FOIA documents show that CDC supervisors ignored the missteps and covered up the illegal activity.

This misconduct, undermines the legitimacy of these studies, which were used to refute vaccine injury claims in the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP). The studies were also used in the NVICP’s “Omnibus” to dismiss 5000 petitions by families who claimed that their children had developed autism from vaccines.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: surfivor on March 30, 2019, 07:48:48 AM

https://www.nvic.org/nvic-vaccine-news/january-2015/measles-in-disneyland-third-mmr-shot-and-vaccine.aspx

In some outbreaks of measles in California last year, nearly 20 percent of the people had been vaccinated. 49 The CDC says that 12% of the measles cases associated with Disneyland were vaccinated, some of them with at least two doses of MMR vaccine. 50

..

In addition, there are published studies demonstrating that people given live virus measles vaccine can be infected with vaccine strain measles virus and shed vaccine strain measles virus. 64 65 66 Health officials do not conduct routine active surveillance of people getting live MMR vaccine to monitor for vaccine strain measles virus infection, shedding and the potential for transmission.
 
...

Plus, other common viral infections – like adenovirus infections – can look just like measles with rash, fever and conjunctivitis symptoms 69 70 and be misdiagnosed as measles UNLESS there is expensive RNA lab testing done to confirm that what looks like measles really is wild type measles. 71

Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: FreeLancer on March 30, 2019, 10:09:01 AM
The CDC says that 12% of the measles cases associated with Disneyland were vaccinated, some of them with at least two doses of MMR vaccine. 50

That's very deceptive. 

If you follow reference 50 it takes you to an old CDC report from January 2015, which states at the top of the page that the data isn't current and has been stored for historical purposes only.  A month later the number of cases had more than doubled, as seen in the following MMWR article from February 2015.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6406a5.htm (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6406a5.htm)

Quote
Among the 110 California patients, 49 (45%) were unvaccinated; five (5%) had 1 dose of measles-containing vaccine, seven (6%) had 2 doses, one (1%) had 3 doses, 47 (43%) had unknown or undocumented vaccination status, and one (1%) had immunoglobulin G seropositivity documented, which indicates prior vaccination or measles infection at an undetermined time. Twelve of the unvaccinated patients were infants too young to be vaccinated. Among the 37 remaining vaccine-eligible patients, 28 (67%) were intentionally unvaccinated because of personal beliefs, and one was on an alternative plan for vaccination. Among the 28 intentionally unvaccinated patients, 18 were children (aged <18 years), and 10 were adults. Patients range in age from 6 weeks to 70 years; the median age is 22 years. Among the 84 patients with known hospitalization status, 17 (20%) were hospitalized.

Based on this data set, only 1 of the Disneyland measles patients had been fully vaccinated, and 1 may have been based on their IGG titer.  That's still less than 2%, well within the expectations for 3 doses of the vaccine.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: surfivor on March 30, 2019, 12:26:06 PM
It seems to say 7% had at least 2 doses of vaccinations? An additional 6% had one vaccination dose, though supposedly 2 doses is recommended


This article seems to claim a person who was vaccinated spread measles to others from the vaccination

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/04/measles-outbreak-traced-fully-vaccinated-patient-first-time

This website says only 2% to 5% do not develop immunity from one shot so supposedly one shot should be highly effective according to that

http://www.immunize.org/askexperts/experts_mmr.asp
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: FreeLancer on March 30, 2019, 03:52:03 PM
So I woke up from a nap and realized I need to rectify my numbers on the last post.

Full MMR series is 2 doses, not 3. Not sure why the one patient got three.  According to the latest CDC data 1 dose of MMR is 93% effective against measles, and 2 doses is 97%.  Remember that is over very large populations.

So in the Disneyland outbreak it looks like up to 8% of the 110 patients may have been considered fully immune and still contracted measles at a higher rate than the expected 3%. But with this number of cases that may not be a statistically significant deviation.

The real takeaway from this outbreak, though, is the fact that 88% of the measles cases occurred among those with no known history of vaccination.  Not very comforting odds.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: surfivor on March 31, 2019, 02:53:13 AM

These measles stats always seem questionable because there is a built in bias, but even this pro vaccine article seems to have to admit that in the worst case scenario, death by measles is not a particularly significant risk. The numbers given here could easily be exaggerated because people who are unhealthy to begin with ar more likely to die from numerous related causes. Other estimates of deaths from measles seems much lower. Suicide, poor diet, lack of exercise, pollution, chemicals in the food and the numerous other health risk factors seem more significant. It seems hard to get around the idea that there are other motives that also play into vaccination pushes and fears

https://www.google.com/amp/s/vaxopedia.org/2018/04/15/when-was-the-last-measles-death-in-the-united-states/amp/

So if we stop vaccinating, we won’t get to 7,000 measles deaths a year again in the United States. Modern medicine has improved a great deal since 1900. We would eventually get to about 320 to 960 measles deaths a year though (using our current population of 320 million people and a measles death rate between 0.1 and 0.3).
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 08, 2019, 11:33:46 AM
It has been overturned as judge found there is no emergency.  That a judge even had to spend time on this clearly illegal ban is amazing.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/ny-county-considers-next-steps-amid-measles-outbreak (https://www.foxnews.com/health/ny-county-considers-next-steps-amid-measles-outbreak)

NY county considers next steps after judge rules against emergency order

Leaders in a New York county are weighing legal options after a judge ruled Friday against banning unvaccinated children from public places
...
The parents challenging the emergency order said it violated their First Amendment right to exercise their freedom of religion. Thorsen said the county’s measles outbreak didn’t rise to the level of an “epidemic” meriting an emergency declaration.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: surfivor on April 09, 2019, 01:27:41 PM
 Good stuff, they are at it again .. those pro vaccine folks must not mind ..


https://www.timesofisrael.com/mandatory-measles-shots-ordered-in-brooklyn-area-with-high-orthodox-population/

NEW YORK — New York City declared a public health emergency Tuesday over a measles outbreak and ordered mandatory vaccinations in one neighborhood for people who may have been exposed to the virus.

Mayor Bill de Blasio announced the unusual order amid what he said was a measles “crisis” in Brooklyn’s Williamsburg section, where more than 250 people, mostly members of an ultra-Orthodox Jewish religious community, have gotten measles since September.

..

People who ignore the order could be fined $1,000. The city said it would help everyone covered by the order get the vaccine if they can’t get it quickly through their regular medical provider.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: Mr. Bill on April 09, 2019, 06:32:28 PM
https://www.timesofisrael.com/mandatory-measles-shots-ordered-in-brooklyn-area-with-high-orthodox-population/

NEW YORK — New York City declared a public health emergency Tuesday over a measles outbreak and ordered mandatory vaccinations in one neighborhood for people who may have been exposed to the virus. ...

Another article with a bit more information:

Courthouse News, 4/9/19: NYC Measles Outbreak Spurs Mandatory Vaccination Order (https://www.courthousenews.com/nyc-measles-outbreak-spurs-mandatory-vaccination-order/)

Quote
...Since the outbreak began in October, there have been 285 confirmed cases of measles concentrated in the tight-knit community of Orthodox Jews in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, according to a press release from the mayor’s office. Nearly 250 of those cases were children under 18. There have been no deaths associated with the outbreak, though people have suffered complications. ...

It’s not clear, however, that religious exceptions are at the root of the outbreak in Brooklyn. Some experts say the outbreaks are due in part to Orthodox Jewish communities’ being uniquely susceptible to misinformation from anti-vaxxers, due to their close-knit communities and separation from mainstream media.

“As a pediatrician, I know the MMR vaccine is safe and effective,” Health Commissioner Barbot said in a statement Tuesday. “This outbreak is being fueled by a small group of anti-vaxxers in these neighborhoods. They have been spreading dangerous misinformation based on fake science. We stand with the majority of people in this community who have worked hard to protect their children and those at risk.”...

[Rabbi] David Niederman, executive director and president of the United Jewish Organizations of Williamsburg Inc., ... has told news outlets that unvaccinated children in Jewish communities are a minority, and that the religion encourages vaccination.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: FreeLancer on April 09, 2019, 06:47:54 PM
NYT:  ‘Monkey, Rat and Pig DNA’: How Misinformation Is Driving the Measles Outbreak Among Ultra-Orthodox Jews (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/09/nyregion/jews-measles-vaccination.html)

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/04/04/nyregion/00nymeasles2/29d6ab8218ce439092bd89fdfc8538bc-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp)

Quote
Peach’s handbook — with letters signed by rabbis and sections like “Halachic Points of Interest” — has become one of the main vehicles for misinformation among ultra-Orthodox groups, including Hasidim. Its message is being shared on hotlines and in group text messages.

“Vaccines contain monkey, rat and pig DNA as well as cow-serum blood, all of which are forbidden for consumption according to kosher dietary law,” Moishe Kahan, a contributing editor for Peach magazine, said in an email.

Vaccines are often grown in a broth of animal cells, but the final product is highly purified. Most prominent ultra-Orthodox rabbis agree that vaccines are kosher, and urge observant Jews to be immunized.

Still, from enclaves in suburban Rockland County to the bustling streets of Brooklyn’s Borough Park neighborhood, fliers tell the Hasidim to be skeptical of immunizations. On a recent Sunday evening, a four-hour conference call promoted to ultra-Orthodox families — with call-in numbers for a variety of countries — offered advice from speakers who were presented as experts in vaccine science.



(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/04/09/nyregion/09nymeaslesFLIER/b0d0fbc6d2e24b759824c6809d26c7c7-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp)

Quote
Fliers like this were hung in temples and along streets in Brooklyn, promoting a conference call that cast doubt on the safety of vaccines.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 09, 2019, 06:53:25 PM
Another article with a bit more information:
...
Some experts say the outbreaks are due in part to Orthodox Jewish communities’ being uniquely susceptible to misinformation from anti-vaxxers, due to their close-knit communities and separation from mainstream media.

Wow, now that is some major anti-semitism.  Jews are too gullible to be allowed to make decisions for themselves and their families.  Proof is they dont buy into everything the mainstream media says  Therefore we must seggregate them from others and forcibly inject them with chemicals against their wills.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: Mr. Bill on April 09, 2019, 10:09:37 PM
Wow, now that is some major anti-semitism.

I've read that there is some serious community anti-semitism related to this issue, but I don't think that quote is an example of it.  The blame is clearly being placed on the isolation of this particular community, and not on their religion or ethnicity.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 10, 2019, 07:39:53 AM
I've read that there is some serious community anti-semitism related to this issue, but I don't think that quote is an example of it.  The blame is clearly being placed on the isolation of this particular community, and not on their religion or ethnicity.

It is absolutely their religion as shown in the court case.  It is an unprecedented violation of the first amendment and is being used to justify hatred towards them.

https://laitman.com/2019/04/measles-outbreak-and-antisemitism/ (https://laitman.com/2019/04/measles-outbreak-and-antisemitism/)
Measles Outbreak And Antisemitism

The outbreak of Measles provides another justification for the inherent hatred towards Jews; a way to rationalize anti-Semitic sentiments.

Even in the Middle Ages Jews were blamed for spreading diseases, but the claim was opposite: Since bathing regularly wasn’t common, the Jews, who bathed at least once a week for religious reasons, were more protected from diseases. Their weekly cleaning disinfected their bodies. But the public at the time ignored that, and fabricated false theories that the Jews themselves were spreading the disease to hurt the rest of the public. As then, so now, an inexplicable and irrational feeling is constantly searching for logical reasons to blame and hate the Jews.


In Washington State we see a person plotting attacks against Jews referring to them as rats, the common trope of them being disease spreaders.  This is how panic puts lives at risk.  It gives [false] justification to take action on existing prejudices.

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/monroe-man-charged-in-killing-plot-im-shooting-for-30-jews/ (https://www.heraldnet.com/news/monroe-man-charged-in-killing-plot-im-shooting-for-30-jews/)
Monroe man charged in killing plot: ‘I’m shooting for 30 Jews’
Dakota Reed, 20, is charged with two counts of threats to bomb and for Facebook posts.


“I’m shooting for 30 Jews,” he posted in November. “No pun needed. Long ways away anyways. See you Goys.”
...
He wrote he was saving up to buy guns and ammo to kill “(((rats))).” Among anti-Semites, the echo symbol is a reference to Jews


IMO the politicians need to deescalate the rhetoric and attacks before this gets completely out of hand.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: Mr. Bill on April 10, 2019, 02:58:49 PM
I'm sensitive to anti-semitism.  My dad's Jewish, and hundreds of people with my last name were murdered in the Holocaust.  I agree there's a whole lot of anti-semitism going around lately, and some of it is directed against this particular group.

But... I mean, I really don't know how to handle this situation.  A group of people are intentionally isolating themselves from mainstream sources of information, and they are choosing to believe one rabbi who says vaccines are non-kosher, rather than the thousands of other rabbis who say just the opposite.  As a result, there are now nearly 300 of them infected with a serious communicable disease.  And no matter how isolated they may be culturally, they are not isolated epidemiologically -- they're smack in the middle of one of the biggest metropolitan areas in North America, which is also a hub for national and international travel.

Remember that old libertarian line about how your freedom to swing your fist ends where my face begins?  Freedom of religion isn't absolute.  To invent an extreme example, if your religion calls for sacrificing unbelievers to the gods, I am going to fight your right to practice it.

So this is obviously a much less extreme situation, but doesn't the same principle apply?  If you're harboring a contagious virus for religious reasons, the least you should do is voluntarily quarantine yourself.  And if you're not willing to do that, other people do have a right to take an appropriate level of action against you, in self-defense.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 10, 2019, 03:44:43 PM
But this isnt about quarantining ill people.  They are quaranteened. They are trying to ban all Jews who havent been vaccinated.  These are healthy people the vast majority who are adults already immune. This is unprecedented. 

When brought before the judge not a single health care professional would testify under oath that healthy and immune people pose a public risk, nor would they testify that this is an epidemic.  This is simply an outbreak which is expected.  There is no 'rolling back of eradication' like the media portrays.  It is all anti-scientific fear mongering.

I remember fighting back against the hate of homosexuals during the 80s AIDS epidemic.  They proposed the same violations of freedom.  Now we look back at that aghast.  But here we are again. Same fear, same political posture, just new minority group to demonize.

Also, this violates the state law.  So we have a Mayor going around legal due process.  But I see now they are saying they wont enforce it.  And also they have changed the expiration date to April 17, the day before the first court challenge could proceed.  Net, they are admitting this is all fear theater. 

I just hope we dont see more anti-semitic, anti-Catholic, and Anti-Amish attacks.  We have seen enough of those in the last year.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: surfivor on April 10, 2019, 03:56:04 PM
They are trying to forcibly vaccinate adults is that right ? It wasn't clear ..

 As far as Jews in Germany, the other angle is that they all or at least many probably had adequate warnings but it was all considered crazy conspiracy theories that anyone would send people to concentration camps for extermination.

 There is plenty of evidence of abusive medical experiments and other such things. For that reason alone, I find it extremely difficult to agree that people should be compelled to do such things as be vaccinated when there is no clear case that that should happen
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 10, 2019, 04:16:03 PM
They are trying to forcibly vaccinate adults is that right ? It wasn't clear ..

Yes, quarantine of ill and family members was in effect and there were no known violations.

They specifically targetted Jewish neighborhoods by their four zip codes.  Non-Jewish neighborhoods were not included.  The order was for forced vaccinations of all men, women, and chldren who lives, works or goes to school there.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: FreeLancer on April 10, 2019, 04:23:03 PM
Since religious liberty keeps popping up in these vaccine threads, it might be worth remembering that SCOTUS made the determination in Wisconsin v Yoder that 1A doesn’t broadly protect all religious beliefs.

That decision laid out the framework for testing whether a religious belief was merely a preference or an actual conviction that rises to the level deserving of constitutional protection.  Along with some other criteria, it basically comes down to whether one is willing to risk jail or death for their convictions.  Anything else is a preference where, when push comes to shove in the interest of the public, the state is justified in compelling behavior.

And it’s also important to remember that strongly held religious beliefs are often suddenly relaxed in times of crisis, like rabbis suspending Kosher dietary restrictions for Jewish soldiers in WWII. 
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 10, 2019, 04:33:48 PM
Also should have noted that it is an open secret that De Blasio is doing this as payback for Jewscnot supporting him in the election.  This is hard core politics.

https://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/de-blasio-support-plummets-among-jews/ (https://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/de-blasio-support-plummets-among-jews/)
De Blasio Support Plummets Among Jews
Approval rating down to 28 percent
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: surfivor on April 10, 2019, 04:37:41 PM
 Although religious exemptions against vaccines goes very far back and was or is implemented by many states. If you can forcibly medicate people, it's not clear where it ends. How many medicines and vaccines can you compel people to take against threat of fines or other restrictions ?  It is clear that the number of vaccines and other medications is constantly growing.

 Informed consent seems an important aspect to freedom that you often hear about and I believe that some tried to get that into the bill of rights but it didn't make it.

 It's interesting that one of the first people to vaccinate large numbers of people was Cotton Mather who is associated with the salem witch trials

wikipedia says:

"The influential Massachusetts preacher Cotton Mather was the first known person to attempt smallpox inoculation on a large scale, inoculating himself and over 200 members of his congregation with the help of a local doctor. While his view became standard, he also caused the first reaction against the practice."


Wikipedia says:
"In the U.S., all states except Mississippi, California and West Virginia allow parents to opt out of their children's otherwise-mandatory vaccinations for religious reasons."
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 10, 2019, 04:43:09 PM
Since religious liberty keeps popping up in these vaccine threads, it might be worth remembering that SCOTUS made the determination in Wisconsin v Yoder that 1A doesn’t broadly protect all religious beliefs.

No, but it is an open question how Supreme Court will view today with First Amendment incorporation.  Also as judge just ruled, the state's interest only applies in most extreme cases and this doesnt come near.  But New York case will never get to Suprreme Court as Mayor's order violates state law and Supreme Court has been very clear on that.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: surfivor on April 10, 2019, 04:47:37 PM
not that I agree with all aspects of what the UN promotes, but they have to at least admit that it is an important issue that resonates with many

https://www.hhrjournal.org/2009/12/informed-consent-at-the-nexus-of-health-and-human-rights-as-reported-by-special-rapporteur-anand-grover-to-the-un-general-assembly/

Informed consent at the nexus of health and human rights, as reported by Special Rapporteur Anand Grover to the UN General Assembly

In his recent report for the United Nations General Assembly, Special Rapporteur Anand Grover emphasizes that informed consent should be a fundamental practice in a rights-based approach to health. He describes informed consent as “not mere acceptance of medical intervention, but a voluntary and sufficiently informed decision, protecting the right of the patient to be involved in medical decision-making, and assigning associated duties and obligations to health-care providers. Its ethical and legal normative justifications stem from its promotion of patient autonomy, self-determination, bodily integrity and well-being.”

===========

 This seems to be the most obvious example of this, but there are many other alleged cases. Many people in Africa simple do not trust western doctors who visit Africa with all their medicines

https://www.forbes.com/sites/eliseknutsen/2013/01/28/israel-foribly-injected-african-immigrant-women-with-birth-control/#71c9dc3667b8

This weekend, a report revealing that African women immigrating to Israel were subjected to mandatory contraceptive injections, effectively amounting to forced (if temporary) sterilization made global headlines.

Some 130,000 Ethiopians, most of them Jewish, live in Israel. The community experiences higher poverty and unemployment rates than the rest of the  country's Jewish population.  In the past decade, the birth rate among Ethiopian-Israelis has declined by at least 20 percent.  Advocacy groups now claim this decline is the result of a birth control regimen forced upon Ethiopian immigrant women.

=============

One state ruled they could compel a swedish man to be vaccinated for smallpox and later apparently used the same reasoning of law to forcibly sterilize people. What a statement by a Judge ! ! ! Holy Crap !
Maybe this same reasoning could be applied to useless old people sitting around in nursing homes and costing society money.

 This was actually a supreme court decision by Oliver Wendell Holmes.

 I think I heard about this before. The woman here who was sterilized was supposedly depressed at the time but they claimed she was an imbecile

Anyway, an example of damn good reason to maintained informed consent

https://www.nvic.org/nvic-vaccine-news/november-2016/forced-vaccination-the-tragic-legacy.aspx

Jacobson v. Massachusetts Used for Eugenics in Virginia

In Buck v Bell (1927),26 Holmes ruled that the state of Virginia could use police power to protect the public health by involuntarily sterilizing a poor 17-year old single mother, Carrie Buck, who state officials had incorrectly judged to be morally unfit and mentally retarded – in effect, genetically defective - just like they said Carrie’s daughter and mother were.27

In one of the most chilling statements in American jurisprudence, Holmes declared, “It is better for the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes. Three generations of imbeciles are enough!


Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 11, 2019, 06:22:03 AM
Such a waste of taxpayers' money given city will pull order the day hefore case is reviewed.  It is all theater meant to flame hate and divide people.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna993161 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna993161)
Challenge to NYC's measles vaccination order 'overreach' is in the works, lawyer says
Opponents of the city's emergency declaration ordering everyone in a heavily Orthodox Jewish neighborhood to be vaccinated said they will file a lawsuit this week.


Opponents of New York City's emergency declaration ordering everyone in a heavily Orthodox Jewish neighborhood to be vaccinated for measles will file a lawsuit this week, a lawyer working with the group said Wednesday.

Civil rights attorney Michael Sussman called the order threatening to fine residents of four ZIP codes in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn if they refuse to have their children vaccinated "an overreach of authority."

Sussman also represented a group of parents in suburban Rockland County who challenged the county executive's order barring unvaccinated children from indoor public spaces. A state judge sided with the parents and issued a preliminary injunction against the emergency order last week.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 11, 2019, 07:24:22 AM
Progressives joining the fight against these 'dictatotial' measures.  NYC health commissioner is already backpeddling.

https://amp.gothamist.com/amp/articles/create?article_id=5cae5ac4ec23ea000192fa6a (https://amp.gothamist.com/amp/articles/create?article_id=5cae5ac4ec23ea000192fa6a)
City Threatened With Lawsuit Over Measles Vaccination Order

“Progressives in New York who want to scream and yell about Donald Trump have got to be concerned about the over-exercise of executive authority by executives in our own state,” Sussman said.

He admitted that officials do have some powers during outbreaks of this sort, such as quarantining infected children or keeping unvaccinated children out of schools where measles cases have been found. “What they don’t have the authority to do,” Sussman said, “is to enter these broad, highly intrusive orders, which are effectively dictatorial in nature, which circumvent the law that we have.”
...
Still, civil libertarians are raising questions about whether the de Blasio administration’s measles order conforms to that precedent. Donna Lieberman, the executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, said the emergency declaration indicates the city could forcibly vaccinate people, which she described as “an extreme measure which is not provided for in the law and raises civil liberties concerns about forced medical treatment.”

In an interview on WNYC’s the Brian Lehrer Show Wednesday morning, Health Commissioner Dr. Oxiris Barbot disputed Lieberman’s interpretation.

“We would never require people to be vaccinated without their consent,” Dr. Barbot said. “We have issued this order to raise people’s awareness..to make sure that they are up to date on their vaccinations that’s the main point here.”
...
A 67-year-old man named Sy W., who declined to give his full last name, said that although he believed in vaccination, he didn’t think the city should have the right to tell people what to do with their children.

“They should have the right to say that I don’t want it,” he said. “If a person says that...I don’t want to put it in my child vaccination, I think they should have the right, just as a constitutional right of an individual to be free.”
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: surfivor on April 11, 2019, 09:29:45 AM
Quote
“We would never require people to be vaccinated without their consent,” Dr. Barbot said. “We have issued this order to raise people’s awareness..to make sure that they are up to date on their vaccinations that’s the main point here.”

I don’t get it, it seems very criminal to issue a legal threat with regards to vaccination and then say that as your defense. Issuing emergency orders is not how you raise awareness
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 11, 2019, 11:24:50 AM
I don’t get it, it seems very criminal to issue a legal threat with regards to vaccination and then say that as your defense. Issuing emergency orders is not how you raise awareness

It is literally a violation of state law.  They are in both civil and criminal jeapordy for pushing this.  The police have refused to enforce and Mayor now says "Our goal is not to fine anyone".  Doctors are reporting threats are backfiring and vaccinations are now going down.  It has destroyed all trust in medical departments.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: surfivor on April 11, 2019, 01:08:40 PM
 I don't trust these people and they seem crazy. I worry that they want so badly to push vaccines that they could try to create fake pandemics. I am not even sure I believe it when they say X number of measles cases where reported, maybe they exaggerated or made it up
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 11, 2019, 06:28:23 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/nyregion/measles-outbreak-ny.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/nyregion/measles-outbreak-ny.html)
Measles Outbreak: Tensions Rise as New York City Steps Up Response
A Hasidic woman was heckled when she boarded a public bus.


But as health officials plunged into Brooklyn’s Williamsburg neighborhood to enforce the mandate, tensions only escalated.
...
“I am a religious Jew, whose religious convictions are being blatantly violated by the vaccine Diktats, which are a clear violation of the Nuremberg Code, which forbids forcing medical procedures on anyone without their fully-informed consent"
...
“Childhood diseases, like measles and chickenpox, unlike smallpox and ebola, are not a legitimate public health menace, and do not justify an emergency declaration.”
...
In the wake of the emergency order, Jewish leaders say they fear a continued rise in anti-Semitism. In recent months, Hasidic neighborhoods have been the targets of a slew of anti-Semitic hate crimes, and Jewish leaders reported another one on Thursday.

Rabbi David Niederman, the president of the United Jewish Organizations of Williamsburg, said a city bus driver tried to refuse service to a Hasidic woman in Brooklyn. The driver eventually let the woman board, Mr. Niederman said, but then shouted “measles” at her and directed her to move to the back of the bus.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 11, 2019, 08:13:06 PM
https://hamodia.com/2019/04/02/rockland-county-executive-accused-stoking-anti-semitism-measles-declaration/ (https://hamodia.com/2019/04/02/rockland-county-executive-accused-stoking-anti-semitism-measles-declaration/)
Rockland County Executive Accused of Stoking Anti-Semitism With Measles Declaration

A week after Rockland County’s executive announced a ban on unvaccinated minors in public places, reports claim that while the proclamation comes with no means of enforcement, its most tangible result has been a spike in anti-Semitism.
...
a New York Times article entitled, “An Outbreak Spreads Fear: Of Measles, of Ultra-Orthodox Jews, of Anti-Semitism,” referenced several incidents of non-Jewish Rockland residents fleeing stores after spotting Orthodox Jews shopping there.

The Times quoted a store clerk who recalled the story, saying that one customer had grabbed her child and said, “Let’s go, let’s go! Jews don’t have shots!’”

County Legislator and askan Aron Weider told Hamodia that the emergency declaration had “absolutely” led to an increase in anti-Semitic rhetoric and feelings in the county, well beyond the handful of incidents mentioned in the article, and that a significant amount of the blame lay with Mr. Day’s approach in making the declaration.

“He [Day] knows what would have been the responsible way to go about this, and in my opinion he deliberately did it this way to further exploit the tensions that he knows exist,” he said.
...
Steven Gold, the chairman of the Jewish Community Relations Council for the Jewish Federation of Rockland, said that since last Tuesday, his agency had heard of an increase in bias comments against Orthodox Jews.

“The declaration made people feel freer to make anti-Semitic comments,” he said. “Just because there’s an outbreak in these communities, that shouldn’t give anybody a right to be openly anti-Semitic."
...
This is hardly the first time Mr. Day has been accused of exploiting tensions surrounding the quickly expanding Orthodox community in Rockland. He has supported a long list of measures widely seen as aimed to discourage further growth and was elected in 2013 with enthusiastic backing from the Preserve Rockland group — an organization that is likewise seen by many as dedicated to agitating against the area’s Orthodox community and in some instances against Judaism itself.

In 2016, Sreeramulu Nagubandi, the county’s long-serving Commissioner for Human Rights, filed a lawsuit that alleged that the county executive had openly expressed a desire to limit the Orthodox community’s growth and to make daily life difficult for them.

Mr. Weider said there was little in Mr. Day’s record to dissuade him from thinking that his actions regarding the ban were not motivated by animus.

“Ed Day has a long history of being antagonistic towards the Orthodox community. His own human rights commissioner accused him of being overtly anti-Semitic.”
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 13, 2019, 08:56:02 AM
So sad that they have to do this just to retain basic rights.

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/03/29/PWES/c6c1eac3-405c-4e71-858f-10ffacedcdf9-jm032919_Measles14.jpg?crop=3095,2331,x0,y0&width=640)
Kevin Connery from Brooklyn holds a protest sign outside the Rockland County Office Building in New City in protest of the State of Emergency
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: Prepper456 on April 15, 2019, 03:32:38 PM
I think I read measle cases in New York have gone 300 or 300% above normal due to not vaccinating.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: Mr. Bill on April 17, 2019, 05:50:09 PM
Courthouse News, 4/17/19: Measles-Vaccination Order Extended Across New York City (https://www.courthousenews.com/measles-vaccination-order-extended-across-new-york-city/)

Quote
The New York City Board of Health voted unanimously Wednesday to continue an emergency measles vaccination order...

The order, first declared alongside a public health emergency April 9, requires people who live or work in four Brooklyn ZIP codes to receive the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine if they cannot show proof of immunity or provide medical exemptions. ...

...Williamsburg has seen a “surge” of vaccinations: around 400-500 people, many of them young children, have gotten vaccines in the last week or so.  ...but about 14% of Williamsburg children between the ages of 1 and 5 still have not received any doses of the MMR vaccine. ...

The long incubation period, and the number of children who remain unvaccinated, mean the outbreak is likely to get worse before it gets better. City health officials have counted 329 cases since Sept. 30, 2018. That number was at 285 a week ago.

Williamsburg is home to 81% of the measles cases, with Borough Park, another Brooklyn neighborhood, trailing behind at 16 percent. Children ages 1 to 4 represent 49% of cases.

Almost all New York City cases have been concentrated within the Orthodox Jewish community, and the city has focused recent efforts on encouraging vaccination before families see relatives for Passover. ...
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 17, 2019, 09:27:45 PM
Courthouse News, 4/17/19: Measles-Vaccination Order Extended Across New York City (https://www.courthousenews.com/measles-vaccination-order-extended-across-new-york-city/)

That's one way to put it.  Like I posted last week, they yanked the origional one which was clearly illegal ahead of tommorrow's court hearing.

Such a waste of taxpayers' money given city will pull order the day hefore case is reviewed.  It is all theater meant to flame hate and divide people.

It was replaced with a non-zipcode based order with different terms.  People are now ignoring it and refusing to talk with health department.  Not a single church is going to close their doors for Easter like they are ordering.  This order will be yanked too as soon as it comes to court.  No-one will ever be charged.  This is a total failure and is just political theater.

I don't trust these people and they seem crazy. I worry that they want so badly to push vaccines that they could try to create fake pandemics. I am not even sure I believe it when they say X number of measles cases where reported, maybe they exaggerated or made it up

No need.  They have been changing reporting so they can pump up reported numbers to scare people. 


I think I read measle cases in New York have gone 300 or 300% above normal due to not vaccinating.

The media throws around all kinds of "percents" to scare people.  It is all based on chosen base periods.  Truth is these numbers are well within expectations.  There will always be flaps caused by international travel like this one.  Until we get to multiple thousands it is not out of norm.  Here are CDC charts based on reported cases.  This includes an upward bias as there are now activists trying to skew numbers going into reporting.  The corresponding number for late 1990s was just about 1000.  With small numbers like these you can always generate large percent rises or falls simply by choosing comparison year.  This is especially the case by looking at specific geos where you might have only a couple in a given year.

(https://www.cdc.gov/measles/images/trends-measles-cases.png)

This whole media narrative that gains from vaccinations have been lost due to "antivaxers" is laughable.  First measle vaccination rates are up (about 92% vs. 90% a decade ago).  Second, we used to have 450,000 reported cases a year. A few hundred is miniscule by comparison.  It wont even visually show up when graphed.  Said another way, measles is down by 99.9% and nothing is going to change that.

(https://media.historyofvaccines.org/images/999991_540.jpg)
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: FreeLancer on April 17, 2019, 09:39:59 PM
WSJ:  Measles Outbreak Upends Passover Traditions (https://www.wsj.com/articles/measles-outbreak-upends-passover-traditions-11555502400?mod=hp_listc_pos6)

Quote
The growing measles outbreak is colliding with Passover, one of the holiest Jewish celebrations and a time when families travel to be together.

New York City health officials have warned that the holiday, with its large get-togethers and long, ritual meals, risks spreading measles, which is highly contagious and easily transmitted.

Quote
Medical professionals who serve the Orthodox community and rabbinical authorities have called on parents to vaccinate their children, said Rabbi David Zwiebel, executive vice president of Agudath Israel of America. “The large majority of Jewish schoolchildren are indeed vaccinated.”


WaPo:  An Israeli flight attendant contracted measles. Officials are now urging crews to get vaccinated. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/04/17/an-israeli-flight-attendant-contracted-measles-officials-are-now-urging-crews-get-vaccinated/?utm_term=.a6379bbb0ae9)

Quote
Officials with Israel’s Ministry of Health said a 43-year-old flight attendant for the national airline El Al had flown back to Israel late last month from John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York. New York state has been a battleground for concurrent measles outbreaks in Brooklyn and Queens, as well as in Rockland County. However, because of the woman’s “impaired mental status,” officials said it could not be confirmed where or when she contracted the virus.

Eyal Basson, a spokesman for Israel’s Health Ministry, told The Washington Post that the woman, who is believed to have been vaccinated as a child, was admitted to a hospital March 31 and has developed encephalitis, a severe complication from measles that causes the brain to swell. As of Wednesday, Basson said in a statement, the woman was unconscious and in serious condition.

Quote
Basson said public health experts have not been able to speak with the woman because she is unconscious, but her mother told them that she had received all required childhood vaccinations, which, in the 1970s, would have included one dose of a vaccine intended to protect against measles and other childhood diseases. Israel now recommends two doses of the MMR/MMRV (measles, mumps, rubella and varicella) vaccine, but it’s not known whether the woman received the second dose.

Quote
People born between 1957 and 1989 generally only had one MMR dose. One dose is about 93 percent effective at preventing measles, but anyone in that age group can still get a second dose, says Russell Faust, medical director for Michigan’s Oakland County health department. The county, part of metropolitan Detroit, has an ongoing measles outbreak with 39 cases reported. Two doses are about 97 percent effective. Even if you had two doses (or can’t remember), it’s okay to get a third dose, he says.


CNN:  Israeli flight attendant in coma after getting measles (https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/17/health/measles-israel-flight-attendant/index.html)

Per Dr. Itamar Grotto, associate director general of Israel's Ministry of Health, it's not an issue of religious belief with the ultra-orthodox, but having more kids than they have time to get vaccinated.

Quote
There have been 3,920 cases of measles in Israel from March 2018 through April 11, said Grotto, who is also a professor of epidemiology and public health at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev.

Quote
Grotto said there was a surge of cases in Israel last fall when large numbers of ultra-Orthodox Israelis traveled to Ukraine on a religious pilgrimage during the Jewish New Year. Ukraine has had more than 72,000 measles cases this year, more than any other country, according to the World Health Organization.

About 85% to 90% of Israeli measles cases have been among ultra-Orthodox Jews, Grotto said.

There's nothing in Judaism that teaches against vaccination; on the contrary, rabbis encourage vaccination in keeping with Jewish teachings on protecting your health and the health of others.

Ultra-Orthodox Jews tend to have large families, and Grotto said those who don't vaccinate tend to have practical, not ideological, reasons.

"Sometimes, they vaccinate their first or second child, but with so many children, they don't always have time to vaccinate them all," he said. "They're not against vaccines. They have nothing against them ideologically."


The Times of Israel:  El Al flight attendant hospitalized in serious condition with measles (https://www.timesofisrael.com/el-al-flight-attendant-hospitalized-in-serious-condition-with-measles/)

Quote
Israel has seen an outbreak of measles in the past year, recording 3,600 cases since March 2018, according to the ministry.

Infections have mostly centered on the country’s ultra-Orthodox community, where inoculation rates have generally been low.

In November, an 18-month-old toddler in Jerusalem died of the disease, the first recorded death from measles in Israel in the past 15 years. A month later, an 82-year-old woman became the second fatality.


Encephalopathic for ten days and on a vent.....sounds like Israel's third measles death is imminent. 
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 17, 2019, 09:59:28 PM
So, given the CDC estimate of 40,000 to 80,000 deaths from flu per year vs. zero from measles, shouldnt we quarantine the entire country?  Where are all the politicians? 

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-care-news/articles/2018-09-27/cdc-80-000-people-died-of-flu-complications-last-season-in-us (https://www.usnews.com/news/health-care-news/articles/2018-09-27/cdc-80-000-people-died-of-flu-complications-last-season-in-us)
CDC: 80,000 People Died From Flu Last Season
The 2017-2018 flu season was the deadliest in at least 40 years.


Pure political theater.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 17, 2019, 10:45:11 PM
Where is the outrage against the flu "antivaxers"?    I wonder how many militant vaxers are up-to-date on their flu shots?  Shouldnt anyone without flu shots be banned from all public spaces?

Simple answer is Flu cant be used to target specific religious  communities so isnt a prime candidate for political gain via the hype wagon.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2019-02-01/cdc-2-more-child-deaths-linked-to-flu?context=amp (https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2019-02-01/cdc-2-more-child-deaths-linked-to-flu?context=amp)
CDC: 2 More Child Deaths Linked to Flu

Two more children were reported to have died in connection with the flu as activity picked up in the U.S. last week, according to an update from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

As of Jan. 26, health officials reported a total of 24 children whose deaths were associated with the flu this season, compared with more than 80 pediatric deaths as of the same time period last season. A total of 185 flu-linked child deaths were reported last season, up from 110 the season before.
...
The agency estimates that up to 11.7 million people had gotten sick with the flu from October through Jan. 26, with roughly half that total visiting a doctor. New York City and 23 states experienced high levels of flu-like activity last week, and the virus was widespread in 45 states.
...
"Each year flu places a large burden on the health and well-being of children and their families," the CDC says. "Annual influenza vaccination is the best method for preventing flu and its potentially severe complications in children."

Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: mountainmoma on April 17, 2019, 11:11:08 PM
So, given the CDC estimate of 40,000 to 80,000 deaths from flu per year vs. zero from measles, shouldnt we quarantine the entire country?  Where are all the politicians? 

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-care-news/articles/2018-09-27/cdc-80-000-people-died-of-flu-complications-last-season-in-us (https://www.usnews.com/news/health-care-news/articles/2018-09-27/cdc-80-000-people-died-of-flu-complications-last-season-in-us)
CDC: 80,000 People Died From Flu Last Season
The 2017-2018 flu season was the deadliest in at least 40 years.


Pure political theater.


That is a very good point.

ANd, while I do agree it is political theatre, and that hte flu has always been MUCH deadlier that the measles,  you cant compare the effectiveness of the two vaccines.  The flu changes constantly, and they never have a fully "good" targeted vaccine, so the flu vaccine is often not very effective, and it would have to be done every single year, and often still not be affective, so it is not as hypocritical as it first appears  There is still a logical consistency to getting regular vaccines and not the flu vaccine.

That said, the real point is that the flu is very deadly, and measles is not.  And, people have hysteria over the measles, and do not take the flu seriously enough, kids are often not kept home enough and nursed enough these days.  I had the second flu this season, which was the more serious one, the strain that had the 2 in it, most likely.  I stayed home for 2 weeks.  I guess I could have "powered" thu it, as people do, but it is better to recuperate properly, to rest up properly and to not infect the rest of the world.  Like I said on another thread,  vaccine-choicers often have a whole different view of disease, so we often treat our illnesses appropriately which also means we do not get them as serious.  I was not seriously ill for these 2 weeks, I was just sick, but I could tell its potential.  I chose to prioritize giving myself the best care so as to avoid getting seriously ill. 
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: FreeLancer on April 18, 2019, 01:41:38 AM
Where is the outrage against the flu "antivaxers"?

Shouldn't be too hard to find some long-ass posts from me, right here on this forum, from way back in the day.   :banghead:


I wonder how many militant vaxers are up-to-date on their flu shots? 

I don't know who the hell the militant are.......

But with physicians it's very high, around 96%, higher than any other class of healthcare worker.  I haven't missed one in 25 years, neither has my wife.


Shouldnt anyone without flu shots be banned from all public spaces?

Banning them from hospitals would be fine with me.  Nosocomial flu has bad morbidity and mortality compared to community acquired.


Simple answer is Flu cant be used to target specific religious  communities so isnt a prime candidate for political gain via the hype wagon.

It's apples and oranges, because the flu vaccine provides no lasting protection, has to be reformulated every year, and is frequently less than half as effective as measles.  The R0 for measles is an order of magnitude greater than flu, too.  Measles takes the cake in terms of potential airborne spread, worse than smallpox, flu is at the bottom of the list. 

I fail to see the religious persecution being unique to measles.  Especially since the religious/philosophical belief flag is always been hoisted high when arguing about mandatory flu vaccination for healthcare workers.


But, hey, I'm just glad to see flu being taken seriously.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: surfivor on April 18, 2019, 03:33:33 AM
Quote
There's nothing in Judaism that teaches against vaccination; on the contrary, rabbis encourage vaccination in keeping with Jewish teachings on protecting your health and the health of others.

Vaccines can have fetus cells, injecting human cells into your body that came from a different person than yourself could be seen as highly questionable and not in line with similar religious principles. Forced medication were it seems questionable need not be spelled out in religious rules because it should be obvious where the problems can arise and history has shown this

The claim of 80,000 people died from the flu last year sounds questionable to me. You can never trust some of the stats they put out. It seems known for instance that aids stats for Africa are not reliable
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 18, 2019, 07:29:27 AM
I don't know who the hell the militant are.......

Than you haven't seen news or been on social media.  Per webster:

militant
aggressively active (as in a cause) : COMBATIVE
Example: militant conservationists

It's apples and oranges, because the flu vaccine provides no lasting protection, has to be reformulated every year, and is frequently less than half as effective as measles.

You just made case to be even more militant towards flu vaccinations than measles.  If there is no lasting protection than there can be no herd immunity without constant shots.  Flu has not been eliminated in the US, measles has.  Plus, there is natural immunity to measles as well.  As CDC says, there is no chance for measles to be endemic while flu is massively so.

Where is the constant media drum beating?  Where are the aggressive, illegal orders?  Strange we dont see them for flu. Why? Because they havent found a way to leverage it for political gain.  If they called for $2,000 fines for anyone without a flu shot they would be out of office in a heartbeat.  But if it is just some Amish, Jews, Catholics, Native Americans, etc under assault for having religious and scientific convictions, they are less concerned as it doesnt affect them.  Political theater.

The claim of 80,000 people died from the flu last year sounds questionable to me. You can never trust some of the stats they put out.

It is true those are all guestimates. In any specific case they are likely wrong by 20% or so.  But on average over long periods of time they are pretty close.  But they must be interpreted correctly.  When it comes to diseases, rarely is it interpretted correctly in the media.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: David in MN on April 18, 2019, 11:39:52 AM
I'm the guy around here who opposes the flu shot. But that's just based on the statistics that show it's not really effective. But the iatrogenics of the flu shot are a far cry from an MMR. I don't think anyone believes the measles vaccine isn't effective. I can accept (though it's a poor decision) rejecting it on religious grounds but I can't accept a comparison.

What skeeves me out is the logical conclusion. I have a headcold right now. Should I be allowed in public? Should I be allowed outside? Should I be chained up in my basement for public safety until my entire house can be fumigated? Can you do that with a hot Russian girl in a latex police uniform?

Hey, I'll ask it another way... Are we making sure immigrants are vaccinated? Are our sanctuary cities responsible?

When you turn to the legal system to fix long human issues like public health it can't help but end in a dark place. I don't know what the right answer is but I'm very scared a government that mandates preventative medicine. With modern DNA testing you're getting real close the early 1900s dream of eliminating "undesirables".
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: FreeLancer on April 18, 2019, 05:34:31 PM
You just made case to be even more militant towards flu vaccinations than measles. 

Ok, fine, I'm a militant vaxxer, then. 
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 19, 2019, 07:44:14 AM
Update. On radio they are reporting dismissal of case by Orthodox Jews. As expected, with change in order Judge ruled that they cant prove they are being forced to vaccinate and therefore cant get an injunction. So the political theater continues.  So glad I dont live in area where government is allowed to terrorize minorities. The whole "you dont have a legal claim until after you've been put in the gas chamber and knobbed turned" is such a bizarre concept.  Threats by government are actions and should be treated as such.  From the clips the judge came off as an anti-semitic jerk.  The judge even dismissed their rabbis as being religious authorities.  Apparently Jesus wouldnt qualify as a religious leader in New York.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 30, 2019, 07:29:26 AM
As expected, data shows these attacks were just more fake news to push their agendas.  Dont worry, I am sure they will find another reason to attack thsee religious communities until they start voting the way they should.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/little-evidence-to-suggest-orthodox-jews-affected-by-measles-are-undervaccinated_2895265.html/amp (https://www.theepochtimes.com/little-evidence-to-suggest-orthodox-jews-affected-by-measles-are-undervaccinated_2895265.html/amp)
Little Evidence to Suggest Orthodox Jewish Community Affected by Measles Is Undervaccinated

Orthodox Jews have customs and beliefs very different from those of the mainstream, so when measles started to spread among them, the rest of the world jumped to the conclusion that this was because many of them eschew vaccination.

Stoked by fear of a disease that health officials could not stop, many media reports and even the New York mayor’s office have reinforced this narrative.
...
However, a careful look at the data available on vaccination rates in Orthodox Jewish communities, and reports by members of the community and their doctors, indicate that the Hasidic community is vaccinated on par with the rest of the city.
...
The Orthodox Jewish Public Affairs Council (OJPAC) estimates that there are more than 50,000 K-12 school children in these two communities. This number puts the vaccination rate at around 96 percent. The threshold for herd immunity for measles is presumed to be 93 to 95 percent.

That information also is supported by Jane Zucker, New York City’s assistant commissioner of the Bureau of Immunization. Zucker told Vox that most school-age children in the community are vaccinated at levels on par with other schools.
...
So What Is Causing the Outbreak?
If it’s not a ubiquitous lack of vaccination, then why are we seeing so many cases of measles?
...
It’s worth noting here that the CDC has reported more than 400 cases of mumps in 34 states this year and that these outbreaks can occur in highly vaccinated populations, especially where people are in close contact with one another.

“Mumps outbreaks can still occur in U.S. communities of people who previously had one or two doses of MMR vaccine. This is particularly common in close-contact settings.
...
Another piece of the puzzle is vaccine failure. Recent data from the health department confirms that a known minority of cases are found in vaccinated people.

Failure of the MMR vaccine to prevent measles outbreaks is not a topic media report on, but it is well documented in scientific literature that outbreaks happen in highly vaccinated populations around the world.

In 2017, measles was reported in nine vaccinated Israeli soldiers.

In 2003, an outbreak in a boarding school in Pennsylvania also caused nine cases, with six of the people affected having received two doses of the measles vaccine.

In 2012, an editorial by the editor-in-chief of the journal Vaccine noted some rather spectacular failures: an outbreak in Canada, where over 50 percent of the 98 people infected had received two doses of measles vaccine, and a U.S. outbreak spanning from 1989 to 1991 in which 20 to 40 percent of infections were in people who had received one or two doses.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: surfivor on April 30, 2019, 11:47:58 AM

 How do we know if immigrants aren't bringing in more diseases ? I doubt they would ever admit that one as it's politically incorrect. There are claims that that is where the source in many cases is coming from but I am sure all sorts of news agencies and experts will deny it

 Why did they used to have Ellis Island in the old days, was that all just a waste of time ? No more checking for diseases apparently of immigrants, not necessary ?
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: Mr. Bill on April 30, 2019, 11:55:06 AM
The Epoch Times article is doing a great job of selective quotation.


Epoch Times:
Quote
...Jane Zucker, New York City’s assistant commissioner of the Bureau of Immunization ... told Vox that most school-age children in the community are vaccinated at levels on par with other schools.

Vox reporter Julia Belluz wrote, “Vaccine levels in Jewish schools in New York City look average, although religious schools have more religious exemptions than non-religious schools.”...

Source:
Vox, 4/10/19: New York’s Orthodox Jewish community is battling measles outbreaks. Vaccine deniers are to blame. (https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/11/9/18068036/measles-new-york-orthodox-jewish-community-vaccines)
Quote
...“Unfortunately the concern about whether there’s any linkage has really lingered and [because of] misinformation, and it has been very difficult to dissuade parents,” Jane Zucker, New York City’s assistant commissioner of the bureau of immunization, told Vox. “We hear they want to wait until the child is older so they know the child doesn’t have autism, then get the child vaccinated.”

New York State does not allow parents to refuse vaccines for philosophical reasons, though parents can get exemptions for health and religious reasons. Once children reach school, they have to present evidence that their kids have been vaccinated, unless they have been granted an exemption.

Zucker says vaccine levels in Jewish schools in New York City look average, although religious schools have more religious exemptions than non-religious schools. And before kids get to school, there’s a problem in Williamsburg: It has one of the lowest rates of vaccine coverage among young children, ages 19 to 35 months, in the city.

So it was no surprise to Zucker that the children currently affected by measles in this outbreak were all too young to be in school. According to the city health department, the Williamsburg and Borough Park measles cases involved only small children, ages ranging from seven months to 4 years old. ...

That means there’s a cohort of kids for which state vaccine laws aren’t applicable, and who are vulnerable to vaccine-preventable diseases.

“Once the kids get into school we know we have good vaccine uptake,” said Zucker. “It’s the delay, though, and that’s what’s linked to this outbreak.”...


Epoch Times:
Quote
...“I don’t really at NYU see a lot of [Hasidic] patients that are adamant about not getting vaccines, I mostly see the ones that are delayed,” Dr. Jennifer Lighter, a pediatric epidemiologist with the New York University Langone hospital system, told the Jewish publication Forward. ...

Source:
Forward, 1/11/19, updated 1/16/19: Measles Is Hitting Ultra-Orthodox Communities. Why Aren’t They Vaccinating? (https://forward.com/news/national/417390/measles-is-hitting-ultra-orthodox-communities-why-arent-they-vaccinating/)
Quote
...“If you have a room full of people, and someone has measles, 90% of people will get measles if they are not vaccinated,” said Dr. Jennifer Lighter, a pediatric epidemiologist with the New York University Langone hospital system. ...

Lighter ... said that most of her patients are under-vaccinated, meaning they are behind the recommended schedule for receiving vaccinations. Many have foregone vaccination at different times because they erroneously thought it was unhealthy to receive multiple vaccinations at once, or be immunized while they had a cold.

“I don’t really at NYU see a lot of [Hasidic] patients that are adamant about not getting vaccines, I mostly see the ones that are delayed,” she said. ...


Epoch Times:
Quote
Dr. Jay Begun, a pediatrician in Williamsburg, told The Associated Press that only “a very small minority,” of his patients don’t vaccinate at all.

Source:
AP (via Salt Lake Tribune), 4/10/19: Lawyer: Challenge to NYC’s vaccination order in the works (https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/04/10/lawyer-challenge-nycs/)
Quote
..."There is an element of anti-vaccine supporters and sympathizers who do not want to get shots. It's a very small minority," said Dr. Jay Begun, a pediatrician in Williamsburg.

But Begun said a larger number may delay the first measles-mumps-rubella vaccine until 2 years of age instead of the recommended 1 year, vastly increasing the number of unvaccinated children who can be infected.

"Once you delay it a few months, you exponentially increase the vector for infection," said Begun, who said families of eight to 10 children are typical in his practice. "You have a larger pool of babies. The delay it is what's fueling this outbreak."...
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 30, 2019, 12:22:39 PM
How do we know if immigrants aren't bringing in more diseases ? I doubt they would ever admit that one as it's politically incorrect. There are claims that that is where the source in many cases is coming from but I am sure all sorts of news agencies and experts will deny it

Why did they used to have Ellis Island in the old days, was that all just a waste of time ? No more checking for diseases apparently of immigrants, not necessary?

The CDC has been pretty good about disclosing sources of outbreaks.  They use the term "travellers" which depoliticizes it. This includes all people recently coming from abroad; immigrants, visitors, and US residents returning. For measles the majority have been US residents returning from abroad.  The reason is that trip times tend to match incubation period for measles and once here US residents move around more freely/interact with more people more closely so can spread it faster.  This is the most scientifically correct way to put it.  It doesnt matter why the person moved from one population to another, just that they did and were infected at that point.

That the CDC is openly promoting that approximately a third of recent measles cases are of people who have been vaccinatioed, including kids, is something new.  It suggests that the vaccine is much less effective than has been promoted.  They just launched a huge campaign in stages; born before 1968, born before 1989, etc. 

They have switched the lingo in all the news reports too.  Gone is 'almost exclusively in those not vaccinated'.  It is now the softer 'majority were never vaccinated'.  And it is no longer caused by those with exemptions but is rather a global rise. And there is no need to panic as " the number of people affected in the U.S. is still relatively low" and "So far, even the hundreds of measles cases reported in the U.S. this year pale in comparison with the 1950s, when millions of people each year got measles."

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/04/29/716894110/measles-shots-arent-just-for-kids-many-adults-could-use-a-booster-too (https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/04/29/716894110/measles-shots-arent-just-for-kids-many-adults-could-use-a-booster-too)
Measles Shots Aren't Just For Kids: Many Adults Could Use A Booster Too


So where are all the politicians demanding mandatory revaccinations for all adults or they will be fined, banned from leaving home, or thrown in prison?  Funny how things change when it isnt targetted at a particular group.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: FreeLancer on April 30, 2019, 01:25:52 PM
This is the most recent CDC data published yesterday as an early MMWR release:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6817e1.htm?s_cid=mm6817e1_w (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6817e1.htm?s_cid=mm6817e1_w)


Quote
Summary

What is already known about this topic?

Measles was eliminated in the United States in 2000.

What is added by this report?

During January 1–April 26, 2019, a total of 704 cases were reported, the highest number of cases reported since 1994. Outbreaks in close-knit communities accounted for 88% of all cases. Of 44 cases directly imported from other countries, 34 were in U.S. residents traveling internationally; most were not vaccinated.

What are the implications for public health practice?

Unvaccinated U.S. residents traveling internationally are at risk for acquiring measles. Close-knit communities with low vaccination rates are at risk for sustained measles outbreaks. High coverage with measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccination is the most effective way to limit transmission and maintain elimination of measles in the United States.

Tables are at the bottom. 

The imported cases are 77% US travelers and 91% of imported cases are unvaccinated or unknown.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 30, 2019, 03:33:00 PM
This is the most recent CDC data published yesterday as an early MMWR release:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6817e1.htm?s_cid=mm6817e1_w (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6817e1.htm?s_cid=mm6817e1_w)


Tables are at the bottom. 

The imported cases are 77% US travelers and 91% of imported cases are unvaccinated or unknown.

They are looking across the thousands of modern vaccination cases.  So it includes such ones as this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646939/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646939/)

An outbreak of measles occurred in a high school with a documented vaccination level of 98 per cent. Nineteen (70 per cent) of the cases were students who had histories of measles vaccination at 12 months of age or older and are therefore considered vaccine failures. Persons who were unimmunized or immunized at less than 12 months of age had substantially higher attack rates compared to those immunized on or after 12 months of age. Vaccine failures among apparently adequately vaccinated individuals were sources of infection for at least 48 per cent of the cases in the outbreak.

But the data you cite is not inonsistant.  "Among the 704 cases, 503 (71%) were in unvaccinated persons".
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: FreeLancer on April 30, 2019, 03:49:27 PM
1987?


11% were in vaccinated persons and 18% were unknown.

How likely is it that an unknown is actually vaccinated?
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 30, 2019, 05:54:48 PM
1987?

11% were in vaccinated persons and 18% were unknown.

How likely is it that an unknown is actually vaccinated?

My understanding is that almost all will be as those are primarily people who were reportedly vaccinated but actual medical records were unavailable to confirm exact type.  Hence why CDC presents data the way it does.

But it is really simple math, right?  Lets use the most liberal 97% individually effective and 92% of population immunized.  For unimmunized lets assume 100% contagiouseness with no-one naturally immune. Then in 1000 cases we would have:

Vacinated:  1000 * 0.92 immunized * 0.03 inneffective = 28 infections.
Not vaccinated: 1000*0.08 not immunized * 1.0 contageous = 80 infections
Total infections = 28 + 80 = 108.
% infections vaccinated = 28 /108 = 26%
% infections not vaccinated = 80/108 = 74%

And this math assumes the most extremely favorable assumptions. Truth is measles is at most 90% contageous to those without natural immunity and many who havent been vaccinated have natural immunity (in fact CDC assumes all unvaccinated people born before about 1960 to have natural immunity).  And the measles vaccinations are being found to realistically be 88% effective (and it is unclear how this reduces over time).

The only reason the percent infected among unvaccinated is higher in promoted cases is what Mountainmomma pointed out earlier, that some are purposly infecting kids through parties to create natural immunity.  So this skews the infection numbers versus what it naturally would be.

But the media generally ignores the actual science and math.  So it is interesting to see CDC stressing this and launching campaign for adult vaccinations.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 30, 2019, 07:28:48 PM
Here is a dramatic case from 2011 to illustrate this.  The patient zero was fully vaccinated and two of the four secondary were vaccinated and the other two previously had measles and should have had immunity.  So you can understand why the CDC, unlike the media, takes vaccine failure seriously.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/04/measles-outbreak-traced-fully-vaccinated-patient-first-time (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/04/measles-outbreak-traced-fully-vaccinated-patient-first-time)
Measles Outbreak Traced to Fully Vaccinated Patient for First Time

And even if a fully vaccinated person does become infected—a rare situation known as “vaccine failure”—they weren’t thought to be contagious.

That’s why a fully vaccinated 22-year-old theater employee in New York City who developed the measles in 2011 was released without hospitalization or quarantine. But like Typhoid Mary, this patient turned out to be unwittingly contagious. Ultimately, she transmitted the measles to four other people, according to a recent report in Clinical Infectious Diseases that tracked symptoms in the 88 people with whom “Measles Mary” interacted while she was sick. Surprisingly, two of the secondary patients had been fully vaccinated. And although the other two had no record of receiving the vaccine, they both showed signs of previous measles exposure that should have conferred immunity.
...
If it turns out that vaccinated people lose their immunity as they get older, that could leave them vulnerable to measles outbreaks seeded by unvaccinated people—which are increasingly common in the United States and other developed countries. Even a vaccine failure rate of 3% to 5% could devastate a high school with a few thousand students, says Robert Jacobson, director of clinical studies for the Mayo Clinic’s Vaccine Research Group in Rochester, Minnesota, who wasn’t involved with the study.


Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: FreeLancer on April 30, 2019, 09:25:30 PM
But the media generally ignores the actual science and math.  So it is interesting to see CDC stressing this and launching campaign for adult vaccinations.

You going to get boosted?
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on April 30, 2019, 10:11:30 PM
You going to get boosted?

Nope, waiting for the vaccination order so I can fight it all the way to the Supreme Court. Freedom is more important than a miniscule increase in security.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: FreeLancer on April 30, 2019, 10:40:38 PM
It'll never happen for an adult.  Kids, maybe.  They'll just quarantine you during an outbreak.

Public health precedent is pretty strong, and a century long, too.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on May 02, 2019, 07:41:03 AM
Public health precedent is pretty strong, and a century long, too.

Not really,  As posted earlier the supreme court precedent being relied upon is too narrow in scope to be applicable and was handed down prior to incorporation of major parts of bill of rights to the states.  That is why every modern case using criminal law either fails early on or the state yanks it before it gets to Supreme Court.  This is what New York recently did:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nyc-health-officials-strike-criminal-penalties-from-measles-vaccination-order/ar-BBW4I1O (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nyc-health-officials-strike-criminal-penalties-from-measles-vaccination-order/ar-BBW4I1O)
NYC Health Officials Strike Criminal Penalties From Measles Vaccination Order

Hence, those threats are all political theater. Right now New York is trying to use civil penalties based on the Obama Care mandate ruling.  There are currently about 60 people they tried to intimidate through this route via $1000 mandate tax penalty.  But this too looks likely to fall. 

By the way, it looks like the adult campaign is being yanked.   CDC is now saying explicitely not to get boosters.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: Mr. Bill on May 02, 2019, 09:05:09 AM
By the way, it looks like the adult campaign is being yanked.   CDC is now saying explicitely not to get boosters.

Do you have a reference?  I can't find this in the news or on CDC's website.

Here's what I did find:

CDC Telebriefing: National Update on Measles (4/26/19, transcript posted 4/29) (https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2019/t0429-national-update-measles.html)

Quote
CDC Director Robert Redfield: "...adolescents and adults who have not had measles or have not been vaccinated should get two doses separated by at least 28 days.  People traveling internationally should try to be fully vaccinated at least two weeks before traveling."

Dr. Nancy Messonnier: "Most adults are protected against measles that’s what the science says.  Including people who were born before measles vaccine was recommended and even people who only got a single dose of measles.  We really are focused on adults who are at higher risk and those who are traveling internationally, university students and adults specifically living in these communities that are having outbreaks."

I can't find anything one way of the other about boosters for people who were already vaccinated.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on May 02, 2019, 10:15:09 AM
Do you have a reference?  I can't find this in the news or on CDC's website.

Here's what I did find:

CDC Telebriefing: National Update on Measles (4/26/19, transcript posted 4/29) (https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2019/t0429-national-update-measles.html)

I can't find anything one way of the other about boosters for people who were already vaccinated.

Here:

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/faqs.html#booster (https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/faqs.html#booster)
Q: Do I ever need a booster vaccine?
A: No. CDC considers people who received two doses of measles vaccine as children according to the U.S. vaccination schedule protected for life, and they do not ever need a booster dose

If you’re not sure whether you are fully vaccinated, talk with your doctor.


They also have the related FAQs just above and below that

Q: Am I protected against measles?
A: CDC considers you protected from measles if you have written documentation (records) showing at least one of the following:

You received two doses of measles-containing vaccine, and you are a(n) —
school-aged child (grades K-12)
adult who will be in a setting that poses a high risk for measles transmission, including students at post-high school education institutions, healthcare personnel, and international travelers.
You received one dose of measles-containing vaccine, and you are a(n) —
preschool-aged child
adult who will not be in a high-risk setting for measles transmission.
A laboratory confirmed that you had measles at some point in your life.
A laboratory confirmed that you are immune to measles.
You were born before 1957.

For international travelers, CDC considers you protected from measles if you have written documentation (records) showing at least one of the following:

You received one dose of measles-containing vaccine, and you are an infant aged 6–11 months
You received two doses of measles-containing vaccine, and you are a person 12 months or older
A laboratory confirmed that you had measles at some point in your life
A laboratory confirmed that you are immune to measles
You were born before 1957


Q: I am an adult now but only got one dose of measles vaccine as a child. Do I need a second dose?
A: If you were born after 1957 you need at least one dose of measles vaccine unless a laboratory confirmed that you had past measles infection or are immune to measles. Certain adults may need 2 doses. Adults who are going to be in a setting that poses a high risk for measles transmission should make sure they have had two doses separated by at least 28 days. These adults include

students at post-high school education institutions
healthcare personnel
international travelers
people who public health authorities determine are at increased risk for getting measles during a measles outbreak
If you’re not sure whether you are up to date on measles vaccine, talk with your doctor. More information about who needs measles vaccine.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: Mr. Bill on May 02, 2019, 02:24:12 PM
Here:

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/faqs.html#booster (https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/faqs.html#booster)

Thanks.

FYI, that text was added to the FAQ page in early 2015 (per archive.org), so it's not a recent change in policy.


How do we know if immigrants aren't bringing in more diseases ? I doubt they would ever admit that one as it's politically incorrect. There are claims that that is where the source in many cases is coming from but I am sure all sorts of news agencies and experts will deny it

The current outbreaks have been traced to Americans who traveled to countries with measles outbreaks, specifically Israel, Ukraine, and Philippines.

Snopes, 4/30/19: Are ‘Illegal Immigrants’ to Blame for Measles Outbreaks Across the U.S.? (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/immigrants-measles/)

If you don't want to believe Snopes, check the links they've provided.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on May 02, 2019, 03:03:07 PM
Thanks.

FYI, that text was added to the FAQ page in early 2015 (per archive.org), so it's not a recent change in policy.


The current outbreaks have been traced to Americans who traveled to countries with measles outbreaks, specifically Israel, Ukraine, and Philippines.

Snopes, 4/30/19: Are ‘Illegal Immigrants’ to Blame for Measles Outbreaks Across the U.S.? (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/immigrants-measles/)

If you don't want to believe Snopes, check the links they've provided.

There was a shift in media yesterday.  Before they were strongly urging adults in the birh ranges earlier in thread to get revaccinated.  That changed to articles today. For exanple, from this:

https://amp.local10.com/health/born-before-1989-experts-say-you-may-need-a-measles-booster-shot (https://amp.local10.com/health/born-before-1989-experts-say-you-may-need-a-measles-booster-shot)
Born before 1989? Experts say you may need a measles booster shot

To this:

https://www.silive.com/news/2019/05/battling-the-outbreak-do-i-need-a-measles-booster.html?outputType=amp (https://www.silive.com/news/2019/05/battling-the-outbreak-do-i-need-a-measles-booster.html?outputType=amp)
Do you need a measles booster shot? Here’s what the CDC says.

Also, Washington and Oregon outbreak has officially been called ended.  And New York state  push to end religious exemptions has been tabled and is considered dead.  So a lot of change this week.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: Smurf Hunter on May 02, 2019, 04:21:01 PM
What's really BS about this and so many current event social issues, is it's more about frustrating your ideological opponents than actually achieving something.

Most people who are militantly anti-anti-vaxx, aren't overwhelmed with concern for the poor unvaccinated children, rather you often see public ridicule:
https://www.boredpanda.com/anti-vaxxer-vaccination-funny-comebacks/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

We've see anti-gun people suggest NRA members should be shot with their own guns, or other variations on that theme. 
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: FreeLancer on May 02, 2019, 08:23:26 PM
A Scientology owned cruise ship with 300 passengers and crew has been quarantined in St Lucia due to one confirmed case of measles. Ship’s doctor has requested 100 doses of vaccine.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on May 04, 2019, 07:18:37 PM
It is fascinating to watch this push by CDC to clarify its position (see bold below).  I  wonder if the media took what was supposed to be a geographically very limited recommendation and blew it up nationally so CDC is now having to pull it back.

https://whnt.com/2019/05/03/cdc-clarifys-adult-mmr-vaccine-recommendations/ (https://whnt.com/2019/05/03/cdc-clarifys-adult-mmr-vaccine-recommendations/)
CDC clarifies adult MMR vaccine recommendations

ADPH received clarification from the CDC on Friday that provides recommendations for adult vaccine as follows: One dose of MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) or other presumptive immunity is sufficient protection for most U.S. adults born on or after 1957.

Other presumptive evidence of measles immunity includes:

    Born before 1957
    Laboratory evidence of immunity
    Laboratory confirmation of disease

Certain adults are considered at high risk and need two doses of MMR, each dose separated by at least 28 days, unless they have other presumptive evidence of measles immunity, as listed above.

These adults include:

    Students at post-high school educational institutions
    Healthcare personnel
    International travelers

CDC clarification of vaccine recommendations:

    There is no recommendation for an adult catch-up program for persons born before 1989.
    There is no recommendation for vaccination campaigns among adults or individuals in non-affected areas to prevent measles outbreaks.


At this time, the ADPH continues to recommend that infants and children be vaccinated at 12 months and 4 years of age.  From the time a person is exposed to measles, it can take 7-21 days for signs and symptoms to occur, with an average of 10-14 days. People are contagious from four days before the rash develops until four days afterward.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on May 05, 2019, 09:41:58 AM
Funny how things are different outside the hype train.  No panic in Curacao.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1002031 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1002031)

WILLEMSTAD, Curacao — Authorities in Curacao on Saturday boarded a ship that arrived under quarantine to start vaccinating people to prevent a measles outbreak.

"We're not that afraid about the disease itself," said Curacao epidemiologist Dr. Izzy Gerstenbluth. "It's about doing what we can do to try to contain the spread of disease, that's all."

Health officials said only those who already have been vaccinated or have previously had measles will be free to leave the 440-foot ship Freewinds, which belongs to the Church of Scientology.

Gerstenbluth told The Associated Press that a small team is assessing more than 300 people aboard the ship, and that the process might take more than a day.

"We will go on board and do our job," he said, adding that authorities have an international obligation to avoid spreading the disease. "If we allow that to happen, measles spreads in places where the risk of severe complications is much bigger, especially when we're talking about poor countries where people have a lower level of resistance."
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on May 05, 2019, 12:11:28 PM
After losing at appellate level, Rockland County New York asks NY Supreme Court judge to dismiss parents lawsuit to stop precedent from being established.  They have confirmed that they will now respect religious exemptions.  The original order was put in place by Ed Day, a politician who has been taken to court numerous times for antisemitic actions (e.g. https://hamodia.com/2016/06/08/court-filing-ex-commissioner-accuses-ed-day-anti-semitism/ (https://hamodia.com/2016/06/08/court-filing-ex-commissioner-accuses-ed-day-anti-semitism/)).  The court found there was no emergency and rebuked the county for its targetting of religious groups.  The court hearing comes just days after New York politicians tabled efforts to eliminate religious exemptions.

https://amp.lohud.com/amp/3662417002 (https://amp.lohud.com/amp/3662417002)
Measles: Rockland asks judge to dismiss lawsuits vs. emergency order

Rockland County on Friday sought to have a judge dismiss lawsuits challenging its state of emergency declared in the midst of the measles outbreak that barred unvaccinated children from public places including schools and places of worship.

County Attorney Thomas Humbach argued before state Supreme Court Justice Rolf Thorsen that the lawsuits contained technical problems but said he was mainly concerned with preserving the county's legal authority to take steps to protect the public health.
...
County Executive Ed Day declared the emergency March 26...The county has declined to specify the number of active cases.
...
Thorsen halted the declaration on April 5, agreeing with a court challenge that asserted the number of measles cases did not rise to an epidemic or constitute a disaster. Thorsen's ruling was in response to two challenges filed by parents whose children were barred from attending school despite their religious exemptions to vaccinations.

Thorsen's order was upheld April 19 by a state appellate panel.
...
Day subsequently rescinded that order but renewed the state of emergency in a more limited form....This order does not affect anyone with a religious or medical exemption.
...
"Striking the religious exemption altogether is tantamount to adopting a nuclear option where other means of warfare have not proven ineffectual," Sussman's statement reads. "This is morally irresponsible and poor public policy, a plain indicator of the impact of public hysteria on policy-makers."
...
Sussman said doing away with religious exemptions would not put a stop to the hostility directed toward Rockland's rapidly growing religious Jewish population, and said legislation targeting insular minorities had been routinely struck down by the courts.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on May 11, 2019, 08:10:44 AM
Meanwhile in Kentucky the chickenpox ban totally backfires.  Student athletes are now purposely getting chickenpox so they can get back to school.  The health officisls are besides themselves while much of the media tries to spin it.  It was a complete self-own by the media as 50% of team already back in class talking about how it was no big deal to have it.

https://www.apnews.com/59044d83135be52a7e9c49df3f84df5f (https://www.apnews.com/59044d83135be52a7e9c49df3f84df5f)

A student sued because he didn’t want the chickenpox vaccine. Then he got chickenpox

Kunkel’s attorney said preventing the students from going to school fell short of containing the illness.

“Their ban didn’t stop these kids from going to church together,” Wiest said Wednesday. “Their ban is going to be ineffective from the start. The quickest way to get them back to school is to get it naturally.”

The Northern Kentucky Health Department expressed concern over Wiest’s comments about students contracting the virus so they may become immune.

“Encouraging the spread of an acute infectious disease in a community demonstrates a callous disregard for the health and safety of friends, family, neighbors, and unsuspecting members of the general public,” the department said in a statement Wednesday.
...
The CDC recommends against people intentionally exposing children to chickenpox in hope that they get the disease.

When asked if Kunkel regretted not getting vaccinated, Wiest said, “These are people of deep and abiding faith, of strong religious beliefs. At no point in time do they regret not getting vaccinated.”

“They believe this is the right cause. They regret what the health department did.”
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: Mr. Bill on May 11, 2019, 10:51:06 AM
https://www.apnews.com/59044d83135be52a7e9c49df3f84df5f (https://www.apnews.com/59044d83135be52a7e9c49df3f84df5f)

A student sued because he didn’t want the chickenpox vaccine. Then he got chickenpox

One thing I don't understand about that one.  13% of the school's students were infected.  0% of the basketball team was immunized.  There's a rather obvious threat of basketball players carrying the infection to teams from other schools.  So why didn't the school cancel basketball on their own?

The basketball issue, at least, could have been solved long before the health department got involved, if people had taken responsibility for their personal choices.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on May 11, 2019, 11:18:20 AM
One thing I don't understand about that one.  13% of the school's students were infected.  0% of the basketball team was immunized.  There's a rather obvious threat of basketball players carrying the infection to teams from other schools.  So why didn't the school cancel basketball on their own?

The basketball issue, at least, could have been solved long before the health department got involved, if people had taken responsibility for their personal choices.

It was contained just like they had done it for decades.. Students who were infected and their families were voluntarily staying home.  Then state health department came in and said no-one without a vaccination could come to school and school functions (despite all of them all coming for Sunday services).  None of them got infected during this time.  But since legal appeal was going to take months the seniors went and contracted it so they could return to school and graduate in a few weeks.  They missed out on the basketball season and prom but they werent going to miss graduation.  Now the athletes in the lower classes are doing it so they dont have to worry about next year.

Of course all of this could be avoided if drug manufacturer and government would just switch to strain not derived from aborted fetus tissue.  That would solve issue immediately as none of these people are anti-vaccine, they have 100% of all the others.  It is just this one.  But for political reasons they wont allow them to use an alternative strain.

So instead, they tell them they can't return to class unless they either violate their religious convictions or come down with the disease.  Then they act surprised when it spreads to over 50% because they are all attending "pox parties".  So unnecessary and stupid.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: FreeLancer on May 13, 2019, 04:10:00 PM
CDC has updated total 2019 measles cases to 839 as of Friday, up 75 from previous week.
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on May 18, 2019, 05:25:35 PM
Updates:

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/measles-outbreak/scientology-cruise-ship-freewinds-passengers-cleared-measles-risk-church-says-n1005841 (https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/measles-outbreak/scientology-cruise-ship-freewinds-passengers-cleared-measles-risk-church-says-n1005841)
Scientology cruise ship Freewinds' passengers cleared of measles risk, the church says
"All passengers and crew (100 percent) of the Freewinds have been fully cleared of any possible risk of being infected by the measles or infecting others," the Church of Scientology said.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/17/new-york-brooklyn-measles-outbreak-orthodox-jewish-antisemitism (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/17/new-york-brooklyn-measles-outbreak-orthodox-jewish-antisemitism)
Orthodox Jewish communities face antisemitism over measles outbreak

Orthodox Jewish communities in Brooklyn grappling with a measles outbreak say they are now dealing with a second scourge: fear, profiling and antisemitism inspired by the outbreak.

Incidents have piled up in recent weeks as measles cases continued to rise, community leaders say...
Title: Re: Measles hysteria NY
Post by: iam4liberty on May 18, 2019, 11:59:15 PM
Parents rallying all over the country to exert their rights to make medical decisions for their children.  They are pushing back against changes in vaccination exemptions that make everything unthoughtful, cookie-cutter enforcement that could essentially be death sentences for their children.

https://www.channel3000.com/news/parents-rally-to-call-the-shots-with-vaccines-as-doctor-warns-measles-will-likely-hit-wisconsin/1079055055 (https://www.channel3000.com/news/parents-rally-to-call-the-shots-with-vaccines-as-doctor-warns-measles-will-likely-hit-wisconsin/1079055055)
Parents rally to ‘call the shots' with vaccines as doctor warns measles will likely hit Wisconsin

Wisconsin United for Freedom, the group that organized the rally Saturday, hopes to raise awareness for various freedoms, including being able to use personal conviction waivers for vaccination.

"We're just here to let it be known that we call the shots as parents and citizens of the U.S.,” said Amber Psket, president and co-founder of Wisconsin United for Freedom.

Psket said after her 2-month-old son had a bad reaction to a vaccine, she wanted more of a say.

“It was really eye-opening to the fact that I didn't even think about it as a parent. It was status quo to vaccinate," she said. “I have an autoimmune disorder. My children are genetically susceptive to harm from vaccinations. I should have the right as a parent to refuse vaccinations without a doctor's note, essentially."

She said the proposed bill eliminating the vaccination personal conviction waiver is one of the main reasons she and other protesters took to the Capitol but added, “it's not a vaccine rally. This is a freedom rally. We're here for all freedoms -- Second Amendment rights, alternative health, holistic health.”

"We just feel like the government is going a little too far and encroaching on our civil liberties and family autonomy,” Psket said.  "We're the parent. We know our kids better than anybody."