The Survival Podcast Forum

Survivalism & Self Sufficiency Topics => Outdoors Activities => Hunting => Topic started by: kaiservontexas on November 13, 2008, 05:34:15 PM

Title: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: kaiservontexas on November 13, 2008, 05:34:15 PM
I came across this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation

I was wondering if anybody else knew more about it? I always hear the hunt small game line, but I never knew a person could die by just eating small game.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Heavy G on November 13, 2008, 06:33:29 PM
Jack talked about this.  He was making the point in a podcast about beans and rice that you don't want to forget the fats.  Nowadays, everyone thinks "fat" is a horrible thing to eat.  But your body needs it, especially to digest other foods. 

 
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: flagtag on November 13, 2008, 06:41:10 PM
I heard about this years ago.  I read that rabbits didn't provide enough (?) of something, but I didn't know what. So, a steady diet of nothing but rabbit could "starve" one to death, huh?  Maybe it would be ok for a short term emergency situation (2 or 3 days?), but you would probably want to look for something else - like fish?, fruit?, nuts? if possible.  I bet rabbit stew would make up for it though.  (Maybe?)
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Serellan on November 13, 2008, 07:36:11 PM
Yep.

http://backacrosstheline.blogspot.com/2007/09/rabbit-starvation-syndrome.html
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: wcff3431 on November 13, 2008, 09:00:27 PM
i heard of a long time ago also. rabbit stew make anything better.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: kaiservontexas on November 13, 2008, 09:13:46 PM
Jack talked about this.  He was making the point in a podcast about beans and rice that you don't want to forget the fats.  Nowadays, everyone thinks "fat" is a horrible thing to eat.  But your body needs it, especially to digest other foods. 

 

That is true I forgot about that one. Well anyway I thought it deserved more mention. I hear to many people say they will live off the critters. We do not need many of our fellow survival folks dieing due to lack of information.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Lucretius on November 14, 2008, 07:25:31 AM
It's a long term problem, if you're eating ONLY rabbit meat...

But I think eating some fatty but not very tasty parts of the rabbit is a remedy (esp. brains).
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: cdnshooter on November 14, 2008, 09:07:32 AM
Several Easters ago I sat through a survival lecture given by our very experienced and very serious Commando Sergeant Major. ( Company First Sargent)

After he mentioned the fact that consuming rabbit meat only would cause fat deficiencies, a hand shot up at the back of the room.

Corporal Bulger was a known 'character' within our unit. We were never quite sure if he was really that stupid or really that brilliant.

His question was, "Well, Sir, you know how you was talkin' about rabbits, right?".

Blinking a few times, the CSM patiently answered "Yes..."

"And how there's not enough fat on them?"

"Yes...." the CSM cautiously replied, unsure about where the good Corporal was taking this.

"Well, what about their eggs?"

 :o

The lectured ended early.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: jeremya on November 14, 2008, 09:49:53 AM
I heard about this on "Survivorman" a few years ago.
I would of never thought someone could starve eating rabbits, but it makes sense.

-- Jeremy
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: kaiservontexas on November 14, 2008, 06:01:52 PM
I heard about this on "Survivorman" a few years ago.
I would of never thought someone could starve eating rabbits, but it makes sense.

-- Jeremy

I find it strange myself. My mind is still wrapping itself around the fact that a person can starve despite eating.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: archer on November 16, 2008, 11:00:07 AM
It is a strange concept. Starving with a full belly... Something good to know.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Taylor3006 on December 01, 2008, 10:38:15 AM
If you are only eating wild rabbits, just do like the old timers did, fry the rabbit. If they had oil they used it, if not they used the brains and bone marrow to fry the meat in. This helps with the fat problem and if you add biscuits to the meal you are fine. If you are just intent on making stew/soup, take your field dressed bunny (with head) and boil the whole thing. Ya  might wanna trim off his ears. Ya gotta remember to that the people who ended up with this condition were also working their asses off to stay alive. If you are in a situation where you are mainly sedentary (ie in a shelter), you will probably do just fine. Rabbit starvation is probably not something most people would have to worry about, eating an exclusive diet of nothing but wild rabbit seems unlikely. Domestic bunnies are fairly lean but have enough fat to keep ya going. Almost any exclusive diet is going to leave you deficient in something, vary your menu, eat fresh when you can, and keeping supplements will keep you going.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: SouthernLiving on December 02, 2008, 08:38:55 AM
Its called protien starvation.  You are getting plenty of meat but no lipids.  Your body needs fat, if you don't get it in your diet your body will start using up its own reserves (it'll be a while before I starve from that!) in the same way you loose weight on a diet.  Focusing your diet on other lean meats like deer can also have this effect unless you supplement.  Luckily you can find fat in lots of other foods including vegetables.  I can't imagine having to eat only rabbit for weeks - you will most likely run out of rabbits to kill before you die from starvation due to lack of fat.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: flagtag on December 02, 2008, 10:50:40 AM
If there are rabbits, there should also be a source of water somewhere - however limited - but hopefully enough for fish.   Maybe.  ;D
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Heavy G on December 03, 2008, 08:19:21 AM
Its called protien starvation.  You are getting plenty of meat but no lipids.  Your body needs fat, if you don't get it in your diet your body will start using up its own reserves (it'll be a while before I starve from that!) in the same way you loose weight on a diet. 

Fat gets a bad rap nowadays.  Our grandparents were on to something when they put gravy on everything.  They exercised a lot so it was no big deal.

The need for fat is why I have lots of powdered gravy in my bug out pad.  Goes great with rice, too.  And it's cheap--about $2.50 for a one pound bag that stores well.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: flagtag on December 03, 2008, 09:46:57 AM
What kind of gravy is that?  Is it "milk" gravy, or the dark brown kind that one gets in restaurants?  And where did you get it?  Link or Price? Please.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Heavy G on December 03, 2008, 10:02:51 AM
I don't remember the brand name and the packets are off site so I can't look.  It's a foil package with a label on the front.  It's not a brand name I've seen before.  One pound packages that make, I seem to remember, a gallon of gravy.

I got them at a Cash n' Carry discount grocery store.  They go by different names in different places but they are the bulk discount grocery stores.

They have brown, white, country with fake sausage bits (barf), and turkey gravies.  These are $2.50 or so.

They also come in alfredo sauce (great with the bulk pasta) and some other cream-based (fake cream) pasta sauces.  These are $4 or $5.

Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: flagtag on December 03, 2008, 10:11:21 AM
Thanks for the information.  I don't go to the bulk stores (too far away), so, I think I'll just stick with my Campbell's Cream of Mushroom Soup that I make gravy out of. (With a little meat grease/water.)  I WILL, however, look for something like that at Wal-Mart.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: ModernSurvival on December 03, 2008, 08:40:05 PM
Here is the most basic way to understand this.

1.  There are only three and no more then three sources of calories they are fat, carbohydrates and proteins.  Any calorie is one of these three.

2.  If you get zero carbs in time you can/might have some complications specifically if you have prexisting kidney issues.  However getting zero carbs unless you live on nothing but meat is almost impossible.  The key being though all but the sick and very weak can live with no carbs at all. 

3.  If you get zero protein sooner or later you WILL DIE, not may be, not possibly but definitely but you can go a long time. 

4.  Zero fat will kill you pretty quickly, in time your nails will grow weak and fall out, your hair will start to fall out and then you die as in DEAD as a door nail!  Fat of the three caloric sources is the only one you need to sustain life in the relative short term (60-90 days).

This is all quite counter intuitive in regard to current dogma about diet and fat in general but it is true and quite easy to verify.  One of the most enlightening books anyone can read would be, "The Protein Power Plan" by the Doctors Eades.  Fat and protein are good, carbs have a place but too many cause diabeties, obiciety, high blood pressure and most "modern lifestyle illnesses".  Rice, beans and pasta may be good "survival rations" but day to day take them in moderation as side dishes and eat bacon, steak and pork chops with abandon and you will find that the government is lying about diet just like they are about most other things.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Stein on December 03, 2008, 08:58:39 PM
Back in the day I read a book about a guy studying wolves in their habitat.  He went as far as sleeping like them (few minutes here and there) and eating the same food.  They were eating field mice for a time and he ended up craving fats after only a few days.  He changed the recipe from the meat to the whole mouse - brains and all - and ended up ok after that.

There are more parts to the rabbit than meat.

On another note, there were huge rabbit infestations during the dust bowl years.  They got into everything and townspeople held rabbit bashing parties where they literally herded them into a small area and went after them with bats.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Heavy G on December 18, 2008, 08:35:19 AM
What kind of gravy is that?  Is it "milk" gravy, or the dark brown kind that one gets in restaurants?  And where did you get it?  Link or Price? Please.

Flagtag:

It's "Trio" brand gravy made by Nestle.  Here's a link to it:

http://www.foodservicedirect.com/index.cfm/S/28/CLID/273/N/3447/Nestle_Trio_Brown_Gravy_Mix.htm (http://www.foodservicedirect.com/index.cfm/S/28/CLID/273/N/3447/Nestle_Trio_Brown_Gravy_Mix.htm)
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: flagtag on December 18, 2008, 04:39:39 PM
That's great!  Thanks for the link. 
(gravy comes in handy if one has a bad cut of meat. Or has to eat meat that one doesn't like. ;D)
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: aslink on December 18, 2008, 06:29:50 PM
The body requires fat in order to process protein. If your diet is only protein the body uses it's stores to process it. Great at first if you want that lean look but bad long term if you want the alive look. The other side of the coin is if you have a heavy diet of protein and fats the body converts that protein into glucose and uses it as fuel. The rest gets processed and gets stored as fat, if I remember correctly. This is from my Nutrition class in 83', it's all kind of hazy now.

Also the reason why everyone says rice and beans are so good is because they complete each other so well meaning they create the 8 essential amino acids. The body can make the other 16 amino acids if the essential 8 are available. Then there is the added benefit of the carbs which are more easily converted to fuel for the body. Now keep in mind if you get a combination of foods that make 8 of the essentials and one of the 8 is lower than the others you only get the equal amount of the lowest amino. So your always looking for foods that complement each other well so you get enough of the 8 essential amino acids. That's what makes eating vegetarian so hard. Why do so much research when all you need to do is add a little meat you're easily getting what you need.

(http://idisk.mac.com/kenaslin-Public/aminoacids.jpg)

I made a quick little diagram showing if you get a decent amount of say 7 essential amino acids you only get the benefit of your lowest amount straight across. This is what makes it hard for vegetarians to me at least to eat properly. You really gotta know your foods. As much as I loved Nutrition I didn't care to go that deep into planning meals that way. But to each their own that's what makes this big ball so much fun to exist on.

Here's the article I used to make sure I remembered things right. So I thought I would share it as well.

Essential Amino Acids

Did you know: It is easy to get all the protein we need without eating meats (any animal tissue).

Did you know: Our body gets all but 1/6 of the protein it needs from recycling old body tissue. This 1/6 must come from essential amino acids we eat.

Every cell in the body is comprised of proteins. Amino acids are the chemical substances that make up protein. Our bodies use 22 amino acids to make the 50,000 different proteins we must have to be healthy. Of the 22 amino acids there are 8 that are essential for human nutrition. An essential amino acid is one that cannot be synthesised from other available resources, and therefore must be supplied as part of the diet.

It is not important to mix plant material at one meal to obtain the 8 amino acids - Our bodies store amino acids in our blood for several hours. So if we miss getting some amino acids in one meal, we can pick them up at some other time during the day. Non-essential amino acids don't need to be supplied in the diet as they can be synthesised from other dietary substances.

Nearly every food, with the exception of fruits, sugars and fats and oils, has enough protein to supply our necessary amino acids if we eat enough of it to get our day's worth of calories. We do not need to eat meat.

The 8 essential amino acids are:

    * tryptophan - tryptophan is a precursor for serotonin and melatonin. It is plentiful in chocolate, oats, bananas, dried dates, milk, cottage cheese, meat, fish, turkey and peanuts.
    * lysine - Lysine deficiency can result in a deficiency in niacin (Vitamin B) and this can cause the disease pellagra. It is also beneficial in treating and preventing herpes. Lysine sources include green beans, lentils, soybean, spinach and amaranth.
    * methionine - Methionine supplies sulphur and other compounds required by the body for normal metabolism and growth. It belongs to a group of compounds called lipotropics that help the liver process fats. It is found in fish, whole grains, and dairy.
    * Valine: Valine is needed for muscle metabolism, tissue repair, and for the maintenance of proper nitrogen balance in the body. Valine is found in high concentration in the muscle tissue. It is also one of the three branched chain amino acids, which means that it can be used as an energy source by muscle tissue. It may be helpful in treating livere and gallbladder disorders, and it is good for correcting the type of severe amino acid deficiencies that can be caused by drug addiction. Dietary sources of valine include dairy products, grain, meat, mushrooms, peanuts, and soy proteins.
    * Leucine: Leucine is a branched chain essential amino acid that stimulates muscle protein synthesis and may be the major fuel involved in anabolic (tissue building) reactions During times of starvation, stress, infection, or recovery from trauma, the body mobilizes leucine as a source for gluconeogenesis (the synthesis of blood sugar in the liver) to aid in the healing process. It has recently been suggested that leucine may have beneficial therapeutic effects on the prevention of protein wasting, as it occurs during starvation, semi-starvation, trauma, or recovery after surgery. Insulin deficiency is known to result in poor utilization of leucine; therefore, individuals who suffer from glucose intolerance may require higher levels of leucine intake. Leucine is found in cottage cheese, sesame seeds, peanuts, dry lentils, chicken, and fish.
    * Isoleucine: Isoleucine is a branched chain amino acid that is important for blood sugar regulation, muscle development and repair, haemoglobin development, and energy regulation. Deficiencies of isoleucine result in possible dizziness, headaches, fatigue, depression, confusion and irritability. Isoleucine is found in eggs, fish, lentils, poultry, beef, seeds, soy, wheat, almonds and dairy.
    * Threonine: Threonine is important for antibody production. It can be converted into glycine and serine. Deficiencies are rare but can result in skin disorders and weakness. Dietary sources of threonine include dairy, beef, poultry, eggs, beans, nuts, and seeds.
    * Phenylalanine: Phenylalanine serves in the body as a precursor to the catecholamine family of hormones. These hormones include adrenaline and noradrenaline, which are activating substances in the central and peripheral nervous systems. Deficiencies are rare but can include slowed growth, lethargy, liver damage, weakness, oedema, and skin lesions. Food sources or phenylalanine are dairy, almonds, avocados, lima beans, peanuts, and seeds.

Food Sources

Food sources of each of the essential amino acids are mentioned in the previous section describing each essential amino acid. In general terms proteins are found primarily in meats, eggs, milk, rice and beans, although there are also amino acids in vegetable as well. Our bodies have to break down plant or animal protein into the component amino acids and then rebuild protein - human protein. The plant or animal protein cannot be absorbed directly because these proteins have polypeptides with hundreds, or thousands of amino acids joined in peptide bonds that have to be broken with enzymes into the single amino acids that the body can absorb, and then reform into the proteins the body requires. It is more difficult for our bodies to break down animal protein than it is for it to break down plant protein.

Heat in cooking and the conditions of processing destroy many amino acids in our food.

Vegetarians and vegans often have low intakes of the amino acid lysine that is prevalent in eggs and poultry products.

Too much protein?

Meats are the most protein dense food, followed by legumes and then grains, oats and rye. Meat eaters usually consume far more protein than they require which can lead to health problems. When we consume more protein than our body needs, we cause excess nitrogen to be excreted as urea in urine. This excess nitrogen has been linked with reduced kidney function in later years. Studies have found that when people have impaired kidney function, reducing protein intake slows the rate of decline of kidney function. High protein intakes may lead to dehydration due to excessive urine output (related to ketone production), and may cause extra metabolic stress to be placed on the liver.

Too much protein in the diet also can increase excretion of calcium, and there is some evidence of high protein diets linked to osteoporosis, particularly when the major protein source is animal. The calcium, on its way through the urinary system, can produce kidney stones.

If our diets are high in protein they are usually low in other food group representatives. Therefore there is an increased risk of inadequate vitamins and minerals (especially antioxidants), low fibre intake, high total and saturated fat intake, excess caloric intake, as well as excess protein intake. These imbalances carry with them long term negative consequences.

Amino Acid Supplements

Although most of us obtain sufficient amounts of the essential amino acids in our diets there are conditions that require our bodies to need more than they are getting. In times of physical and emotional stress, illness, injury and surgery the body requires more amino acids than can be gained from food alone, especially when the diet is poor. Many people are turning away from a meat based diet because of considerations for the environment, the animals, and their own health. In these situations it is important that people educate themselves on the best ways to obtain sufficient essential amino acids.

If supplementation is required, but it is important to establish if the body does really need more. If supplementation is required make sure it is pharmaceutical grade, or the highest quality, pure, crystalline amino acids which are best utilised by our body since they do not require digestion and are easily absorbed.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Heavy G on December 18, 2008, 07:33:23 PM

(http://idisk.mac.com/kenaslin-Public/aminoacids.jpg)


You gotta love this forum.  You can learn so much here.  People like aslink actually post color graphs about amino acids. 

I was thinking about it: short of a formal school setting, how could you learn as much about survival than by reading this forum? 

OK, now back to the topic of rabbit starvation.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: aslink on December 18, 2008, 08:47:34 PM
Thanks. Just trying to do my part.

This is a great forum.

Ken
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: kaiservontexas on December 19, 2008, 11:51:05 AM
Thanks Aslink, if only my undergrad courses were so much fun!
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Sister Wolf on December 19, 2008, 12:13:43 PM
Thanks. Just trying to do my part.

This is a great forum.

Ken

Aslink - +1 for you, man!  I'm a pre-veterinary science major, and a biology/nutritions nerd, and planned on going on a rant about rate limiting amino acids, but what is this?  It's been done!  ;D  You rock!
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Kyser on December 21, 2008, 12:11:31 PM
If amino acids affect other chemicals in the body and some of those chemicals regulate emotion, then can food be effectively used to control mood disorders?  Or could diet be the cause of many mood disorders?
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Sister Wolf on December 21, 2008, 02:18:33 PM
If amino acids affect other chemicals in the body and some of those chemicals regulate emotion, then can food be effectively used to control mood disorders?  Or could diet be the cause of many mood disorders?

That is a loaded question.  There are so many answers to it and so many tangents on which we could go off, it makes my head spin!  :)

However, I think it's time for a thread split.  Because diet regulating emotions has nothing at all to do with rabbit starvation.  Start another thread on the subject, and I'll jump in and play "what if" with you on this subject.  :)
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: SouthernLiving on December 22, 2008, 02:36:04 PM
If amino acids affect other chemicals in the body and some of those chemicals regulate emotion, then can food be effectively used to control mood disorders?  Or could diet be the cause of many mood disorders?

Ever given chocolate to a girl?
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: ModernSurvival on March 18, 2009, 03:17:22 PM
Note something I should have posted in this thread long ago.

One can survive on rabbit alone if one has to.  Key is eat the liver, kidneys and pancreas and if you are brave the brain.  There is fat on a wild rabbit just not in the muscle.  There is plenty in the liver, good to know if you even need to rely on wabbit for a while. 
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: CountryRootsCityJob on March 26, 2009, 06:24:28 PM
Okay, so I've read a lot more than I can understand at the moment, but the one thing I'm still looking to see is somebody tell me how cholesterol plays into this situation  ??? this is great and all until I have a heart attack...  just my 2cents
CJ
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: ModernSurvival on March 26, 2009, 07:42:12 PM
Okay, so I've read a lot more than I can understand at the moment, but the one thing I'm still looking to see is somebody tell me how cholesterol plays into this situation  ??? this is great and all until I have a heart attack...  just my 2cents
CJ

Yea, um about cholesterol unless you are slamming big macs and fries and sucking down ho hos and ding dongs don't worry about it. 

This may sound tinfoil hat but Americas cholesterol problems have NOTHING to do with animal fat or nut fat or seed fat.  It is all about..

Refined food
Partially Hydrogenated fats (synthetic fats)
B12 Deficiencies and the resulting effects of homocystine

Blood cholesterol is meaningless and I mean it 100% meaningless the issue is the plaques of it that accumilate on the walls of the arteries.  The artery walls in a young child are so smooth that not a speck of cholesterol can stick to them. They could chug melted lard and their "levels" would be through the roof a few hours later.  A few days later they would be back to nil because nothing could cling to the arterial walls, not a speck.

As we age they get rough and we have damage to them naturally and plaques begin to form, yet most of the damage is from refined foods and partially Hydrogenated crud.  This crud also begins to damage the body in other ways and by 50 years of age even if you live on liver, eggs and beef as staples do to failure of the body to absorb B12 most of us are highly B12 Deficient.  This allows the amino acid homocystine to go mental!  Creating massive damage to the arterial walls and damage from the plaques results in cardiac disease.

Hence our grand parents lived on eggs and bacon and lived to their 90s and no one even talked about cholesterol let alone tested for it and today the incidence of heart disease is growing like crazy.   

On this issue, trust me because I am not a doctor,  ;)
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: CountryRootsCityJob on April 15, 2009, 06:01:35 PM
So what you are saying is I can eat cheese and bacon and pepperoni and summer sausage! :o 

Hmm... my wife will never buy it :-\
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Michael Masse on April 16, 2009, 12:44:31 PM
Sound like there is some very deeply ingrained info being distributed here.  Jack is right that cholesterol does not really tell us everything.  50% of people who fall over dead had a decent cholesterol level.  The very first indication for 33% of people that they have heart disease is that they fall over dead. No real warnings via discomfort or mild stroke etc. they simply had an episode and ended up dieing on the spot. 

Jack is also right in that your homocysteine is a more accurate measure of the health of you arteries.  The reason it is not commonly tested for is that the drug companies don't have a drug that will lower it yet so they don't test what they can not address with drugs. 

They have drugs that will lower cholesterol so they test for cholesterol so they can prescribe a pill even though cholesterol levels are not the most important thing to test for. 

That being said cholesterol does tell us some things.  In china for instance cholesterol over 150 is rare, in the US under 150 is rare.  They have very little heart disease we have a ton of it.

The definitive study (book) that everyone should read is called "The China Study."  It is a multi decade study done in China where they went from village to village and cataloged what they had to eat and the levels of health each village had. Because of the isolation of much of China and the differences in diet from village to village and region to region they were able to see which diseases if any were prevalent when certain items were included or excluded from their diet. 

The FACTS are in, the more meat, dairy or animal products you eat the worse your health will be, the less you eat the healthier you will be and longer you will live. 

Guys don't forget there is a Huge, Huge, Huge difference between cabs you get from eating Ores and chips to that of whole apples, carrots etc.. Done group them together and don't listen to someone who does.  They don't know what they are talking about.  An apple a day keeps the doctor away and the trash processed stuff keeps the doctor paid.

Check out the link.  Tony Gonzalez is a 245 pound pro football player who is vegan and follows the dietary recommendations of the china study.

http://www.ecorazzi.com/2008/01/25/nfl-star-tony-gonzalez-goes-vegan-sporting-world-shocked/

So back to homocysteine levels, the recommendation is for fewer than 11 micromoles per liter in men and 9 L in women ages 40 - 42. but even homocysteine levels this low has been associated with disease so many naturopaths will recommends homocysteine level between 7 and 8. Last time mine was tested it was at 4.  If you are an over weight guy or gal I would highly recommend getting yours tested.  I'm guessing folks in the plus sizes are going to be higher then 15.

Also as an FYI - as the diet in America gets worse and worse the effects on the population are starting at younger and younger ages.  Doctors were very surprised when autopsies were done on fallen soldiers who were sent back to the states during the Viet Nam war they found that these young men were developing early stages of heart disease.
Prior to this they had scene it only in middle aged folk.  Now they are finding the same levels when they perform autopsy on children from who are killed in wrecks etc..  The junk food, McDonalds etc. is really having its effect.

Guys don't forget there is a Huge, Huge, Huge difference between carbs you get from eating Oreos and chips to that of whole apples, carrots etc.. Done group them together and don't listen to someone who does.  They don't know what they are talking about.  An apple a day keeps the doctor away and the trashy processed junk keeps the doctor paid.
The low carb diets are a sham.







 
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Dr. Horrible on April 16, 2009, 01:14:53 PM
Tony Gonzalez is a 245 pound pro football player who is vegan and follows the dietary recommendations of the china study.
Gonzalez only experimented with veganism for a few months. By late 2008, he'd given up on both veganism and vegetarianism, though he does still try to avoid red meat.

http://www.all-creatures.org/cva/th-20080215-n.htm

Veganism is very, very difficult for omnivores to pull off without screwing their systems up badly. I'd advise anyone to consult their doctor and probably a handful of different nutritionists (none of the fad types, either) before attempting it. OTOH, cutting down on beef is probably something most Americans could stand to do...
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Michael Masse on April 16, 2009, 01:47:14 PM
Thanks Dr. for the post and link.  So an advanced athlete who weights 245 pounds and probably burning through 6000 calories a day needs to eat some meat.  As you say we could all live with much less and be better for it. 

Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: ModernSurvival on April 16, 2009, 01:58:52 PM

The FACTS are in, the more meat, dairy or animal products you eat the worse your health will be, the less you eat the healthier you will be and longer you will live. 


I am sorry, no, "The FACTS are in" is not true.  To make this statement is to totally ignore reality, mountains of research and even the people that live in the very nation you point to, "China".  In China the poor do eat very little animal product (compared to the average American) but they eat plenty of it.  Pork is adored!  Further the wealthy in China (there are plenty of them) live almost exclusively on meat but they have the same "good health" as the poor.

Why?  The answer will tell you why it is temporary and why the Chinese will soon be in the same fat boat as the US.  Up until very recently China has had almost no "processed foods" specifically "partially hydrogenated" fats.  The reality is if you are physically active and don't eat crap that comes in a box most people will never be obese, never have high cholesterol or have any of the common modern illnesses.  Unfortunately for China moving more then half a billion people to city life in the past 15 years is reversing this trend and they will be in the same shit we are soon health wise.

Don't try to tell me the Chinese live on veggies and rice, I have been to China there is so much meat on the streets of Beijing it is insane, a carnivores nirvana!  If it walks, crawls or swims the Chinese will grind it and make sausage out of it.  

None of this "animal sources are bad" stuff ever acknowledges things like Italians that live on cheese, noodles and beef or French living on cheese, cream and fatty meats.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Michael Masse on April 16, 2009, 02:38:05 PM
It is not just processed foods.  Many of the remote villages have zero processed foods but some have an abundance of meat, and dairy products and they get more diseases and it is not the processed foods causing it.

You are right they do eat meat and those that eat the most have worsening health, they are not just as healthy.  For instance Asian women have a very low rate of breast cancer then they move to the US and eat the western diet and their percentages match those of Americans. Now the western mindset of eating a lot of meat is setting in to the wealthy in china and their health suffers for it.  In the remote settings they eats 1/10 the amount of protein that Americans do.

Some want to blame their genes. Well the Pima Indians of Mexico have the so called "Fat Gene" but you would never know it if you visited them in Mexico they are thin and health because their diets are better.  Once they move to the States and eat our diet they become huge and suffer all kinds of ailments.

Jack - I’ll send you a copy of the China Study if you’ll read it and then you can set me straight.  What do you think??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: ModernSurvival on April 16, 2009, 03:13:30 PM

Jack - I’ll send you a copy of the China Study if you’ll read it and then you can set me straight.  What do you think??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study


I think a study launched to prove a point usually proves it.  The ones that interest me are the ones that are launched to prove a point and end up disproving it.  ;)  Seriously you can show evidence to prove anything. 

Inuit peoples have almost no modern disease at all.  They live mostly on seal and whale blubber.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Michael Masse on April 16, 2009, 04:37:30 PM
I think a study launched to prove a point usually proves it.  The ones that interest me are the ones that are launched to prove a point and end up disproving it.  ;)  Seriously you can show evidence to prove anything. 

Inuit peoples have almost no modern disease at all.  They live mostly on seal and whale blubber.

Yum the thought of whale blubber is making me long for dinner.

So the "mountains of research" you mentioned before is perfect and unbiased and you were able to sift through it all without wanting it to come to a desired conclusion but the China Study must be agenda driven?  Well interestingly enough the writer did start out with preconceived opinions a quote from the website says

“Early in his career as a researcher with MIT and Virginia Tech, Dr. Campbell worked to promote better health by eating more meat, milk and eggs -- “high-quality animal protein … It was an obvious sequel to my own life on the farm and I was happy to believe that the American diet was the best in the world.”

He later was a researcher on a project in the Philippines working with malnourished children. The project became an investigation for Dr. Campbell, as to why so many Filipino children were being diagnosed with liver cancer, predominately an adult disease. The primary goal of the project was to ensure that the children were getting as much protein as possible.

“In this project, however, I uncovered a dark secret. Children who ate the highest protein diets were the ones most likely to get liver cancer...” He began to review other reports from around the world that reflected the findings of his research in the Philippines.

So this is right up your alley.

 I quote another Dr. “people always want to hear good news about their bad habits” and I think the “eat all the bacon and cheese burgers you want diet” turns your arteries in to a plugged up sausage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbN9MZjzXS4


Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: GUNN1313 on April 20, 2009, 06:50:05 PM
I have to go with jack on this one to a point. If you look at the anatomy of people not only do you find that we are omnivores but are body's are set up to eat meat more so than any thing Else. Fat is a relatively "new" disease. Look at any hunter gatherer society they eat more meat but still  get good helpings of other food stuffs and are healthy. Now lets look for another reason that the Chinese might have poorer health in some places. Like the poorer places that have less meat have to do a lot more work just to stay alive then the places that have more meat. Humans as a whole are lazy the parts in china were meat is abundant people eat more than what they need and if food is easily available people work less to get it. Now I do not think that all the fake fats are harmful in moderation if someone were to eat mc'crappys say once every other month or so I do not think it would even be possible to track what that does to a person over a life time. The problem that we are having to day is that people eat out 3 meals a day.

Now back to topic. It would be all most impossible to starve from only eating rabbit. Provided that you ate it all including the stomach and its contents. Fallow the example of the wolf who is an omnivore as well and needs about the same "stuff" as humans. The most prized food on a fresh kill it the stomach and its contents. Having in it Lots of vitamins and minerals that the body needs to live.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Michael Masse on April 21, 2009, 12:55:02 PM
I have to go with jack on this one to a point. If you look at the anatomy of people not only do you find that we are omnivores but are body's are set up to eat meat more so than any thing Else.

I think you would very hard pressed to find any expert in human physiology that would claim that humans are predominately designed to eat meat.  I have heard on countless occasion that we are in fact do not have the make up of a predator like a cat who only eats meat but we are made to mostly consume plant life.

Interesting if you google around looking for any study that links Americans poor health with a lack of meat.  They all say the less meat you eat the better off you will be.
They all emphasis that the meat intake must good down and the plant food must go up.

Just shooting straight with the fellowship here folks.  As one who could live off beef jerky, steak, sausage, bacon etc.. I know that "live off" would in fact not be "live long"

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/03/23/healthmag.red.meat.lifespan/

http://health.yahoo.com/featured/7/10-health-habits-that-will-help-you-live-to-100/
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Dr. Horrible on April 21, 2009, 01:10:58 PM
Actually, what I hear from reliable nutritionists* is that Americans need to eat less red meat - not meat in general. The ones I know personally say we don't eat enough seafood, in fact.

* No New Age quacks need apply. Yahoo's particularly bad with these sorts; for example, check out the nutty Dr. Mao, who asserts microwaves cook by irradiating food (http://health.yahoo.com/experts/drmao/3391/toxins-in-the-kitchen) and that they cause infertility. Be careful who you listen to.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: ModernSurvival on April 21, 2009, 01:48:49 PM
Just keep in mind the source of all the funding of these studies, always the government.  The same government that brought us the food pyramid.  Do you know if you break down this pyramid down to carbs, fat and proteins and look at it that you get almost an exact match to cattle feed?

Just because the conventional wisdom tells us something doesn't make it true. 

Keep in mind grains have been used to keep the poor fed for thousands of years, corn and amaranth in the Americas, wheat and barley in Europe and North Africa, Rice and Soy in Asia, Wheat, Buckwheat and Quinoa in Africa.  It makes great finincial sense to convince the populous that gruel is good for us. 

This is one of those debates that a person who has made up his mind is almost impossible to reach.  To understand why to much carbohydrates in your diet is an issue one must understand things like glycogen responses.  One must look at the health of the mummies from Egypt that lived in a nutritionist Nirvana or grains, fruits, nuts, natural oil and honey with limited meat.  The work of Doctors Michael and Mary Eades have shown those mummies almost all had Type Two Diabetes. 

I have debated this issue so long I have gotten tired of trying to get people to listen about it.  There is plenty of information for those that want to find it.  Like I said show me chronic disease in the Inuit who live on whale blubber.  Show me chronic disease in the few remaining tribes in the Amazon that live on monkey, tapar and kudamundi.  It just isn't there, I have nothing against a balanced diet but meat isn't bad for you.  Now in our modern society often what is in the meat may indeed be bad for you. 
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Kwitzats on June 23, 2009, 11:36:26 PM
http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html

"the adequacy of a vegetarian diet depends either on modern scientific knowledge or on traditional food habits, developed over many generations, in which people have worked out a complete diet by putting different foods together"(Milton, a professor in the Department of Environmental Science, Policy & Management).

BTW there is much criticism for the china study but then again I have no idea since I haven't read it.
 
It is problematic that the best fat to store long term is the worst for you(trans fat IE Crisco)

I also have concern with eating the brains of rabbits since i heard about VCJD fron eating squirrel heads.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: “Mark” on June 24, 2009, 08:47:19 AM
I was actually B12 deficient a few years ago (in my early 20's). That was after two years of not eating meat. I know the symptoms I experience and can supplement as needed. However, it's been a while.

For those worried about colesterol, the first thing to do is cut out transfats from your diet. Our bodies aren't built to process them, and they take a long time to metabolize. Meanwhile, they lower good colesterol and send bad colesterol through the roof. If you do want to eat a processed food, the easiest way to avoid transfats is to get the fat free version -- but don't get anything with aspartame, which has been shown to cause cancer.

And it is possible to eat 6000 calories in a day on a vegetarian diet, but you have to eat all day long.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: ThomasPayne on July 06, 2009, 09:11:48 AM
You only have to look at the early Inuit diet to see that people can survive very well on primarily protein and fat, with very little carbohydrates present in their diet. Outside of a few berries and fireweed, the Inuits ate nothing but fatty meats and had very low cholestrol levels. It's only been in recent years, when the Inuits have started adding carbs to their diets, have they started seeing diseases such as diabetes, high cholestrol, etc.
http://discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox (http://discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox)
Something to chew on,
Thomas
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: LdMorgan on October 07, 2009, 04:08:27 PM
It's a long term problem, if you're eating ONLY rabbit meat...

But I think eating some fatty but not very tasty parts of the rabbit is a remedy (esp. brains).

Those parts would be the tastiest parts of the rabbit.

One of the first sure symptoms of rabbit starvation is an intense desire to eats the slimiest, greaseast, yuckiest fat you can get your hands on because it just tastes so goooood!

A big handful of cold lard is like ambrosia, from what I've heard, only better.

Note that the human brain eats nothing except cholesterol--and rabbit starvation is the ultimate low-cholesterol diet.



Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: sarahluker on October 07, 2009, 04:21:23 PM
Okay, I have a question.  Is this only about wild rabbit or is there a problem with domesticated rabbits?  I have thought about raising them and am curious about this. 
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: endurance on October 22, 2009, 04:58:48 PM
It's probably all rabbits since they tend to be really lean animals.  We should really have a thread on general nutrition, as it's a subject everyone should be aware of.  I've taken a couple courses in college on the subject and know the following basics:

1) You need complete proteins.  This can come from any animal source including milk, but on a strictly vegitarian diet it requires the right combinations to get a complete compliment of proteins.  For instance, you could die of malnutrition in short order (months, not years) if all you had was rice or beans alone, but beans and rice together provide a complete protein.  Each has a dozen or so essential amino acids, but both are deficient in 3-5 different amino acids that the human body cannot create.  However, since each has the amino acid the other is missing, you can have a complete compliment of amino acids (thus a complete protein) by eating beans and rice.

2) You need Omega 3 and Omega 6 fatty acids in your diet.  Both of these oils are essential; your body needs them for heathy cell function and metabolism, but cannot create them.  Your body can assemble incredibly complex lipid structures, but it cannot create Omega 3 or Omega 6.  Omega 3 is common in fish, almonds, and flax seed along with other seeds and nuts.  Omega 6 is much more common, found in corn, sunflowers, and other oils used in cooking.  You don't need much, but without 2-3,000 mg of Omega 3's a day, your health will suffer over time (although more likely years, not weeks).  Overall, some oils are essential in a healthy diet.

3) Carbohydrates are essential, too. Not that you need them to make up 60%+ of your diet like most Americans, but they are the most efficient fuel to burn for sustained activity.

4) Until the 19th century, mariners and explorers routinely died of Beri-Beri and Scurvy, while children in northern climates were stricken with Rickettes.  These are all vitamin deficiencies that are extremely rare now days, but could cause grave health consequences and even death in weeks to months.  Scurvy is from a lack of vitamin C and prevents the replacement and generation of new collegen in the body.  Without it, teeth will fall out, scars will re-open, and you will not heal from cuts and muscle tears. 

In conclusion, you could live a pretty long time like the rest of the world, with a diet of beans & rice with some oil to cook your fish or rabbit in and some fresh fruits and vegitables in your diet, but if you take any of those ingredients out, you're in big trouble.  Plan your preps accordingly. Storing vitamins makes a whole lot of sense, but remember to also store complete proteins, carbs and fats. The foods you can produce should take this into consideration.  If you can't store enough fruits to supply your vitamin C over the winter, consider storing some sproutable seeds, like Mung beans and Alfalfa seeds.  While the seeds contain no vitamin C, once sprouted, they're very rich in vitamin C.  Also wild rose hips are very rich in vitamin C. 
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Son_of_the_Republic on March 15, 2010, 04:29:00 PM
It's a long term problem, if you're eating ONLY rabbit meat...

But I think eating some fatty but not very tasty parts of the rabbit is a remedy (esp. brains).

Yep,if you can stomach the eyes and other fatty bits this offsets the lean meat issue somewhat.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Son_of_the_Republic on March 15, 2010, 04:33:18 PM
If amino acids affect other chemicals in the body and some of those chemicals regulate emotion, then can food be effectively used to control mood disorders?  Or could diet be the cause of many mood disorders?

I remember reading about dietary chages introduced into British prisons and how a balanced diet seemed to have a positive impact on disorderly behaviour.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Son_of_the_Republic on March 15, 2010, 04:36:38 PM
I am sorry, no, "The FACTS are in" is not true.  To make this statement is to totally ignore reality, mountains of research and even the people that live in the very nation you point to, "China".  In China the poor do eat very little animal product (compared to the average American) but they eat plenty of it.  Pork is adored!  Further the wealthy in China (there are plenty of them) live almost exclusively on meat but they have the same "good health" as the poor.

Why?  The answer will tell you why it is temporary and why the Chinese will soon be in the same fat boat as the US.  Up until very recently China has had almost no "processed foods" specifically "partially hydrogenated" fats.  The reality is if you are physically active and don't eat crap that comes in a box most people will never be obese, never have high cholesterol or have any of the common modern illnesses.  Unfortunately for China moving more then half a billion people to city life in the past 15 years is reversing this trend and they will be in the same shit we are soon health wise.

Don't try to tell me the Chinese live on veggies and rice, I have been to China there is so much meat on the streets of Beijing it is insane, a carnivores nirvana!  If it walks, crawls or swims the Chinese will grind it and make sausage out of it.  

None of this "animal sources are bad" stuff ever acknowledges things like Italians that live on cheese, noodles and beef or French living on cheese, cream and fatty meats.

And don't forget our innuit cousins who live on almost 100 meat/fish diets.They eat a lot of raw innards too so cooking is not a factor in destroying ammino acids stored in certain organs.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: LdMorgan on March 16, 2010, 09:54:15 AM
Aslink - +1 for you, man!.... ;D  You rock!

Ditto! +1!
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Schmidt on March 21, 2010, 12:28:25 AM
I don't really understand how this would ever be a serious problem for anyone. I do try to remove as much fat from venison as possible to make the meat taste less gamey. Guess I'll skip the all rabbit diet and go with the all bacon diet. Bacon tastes better anyway. ;)


1.  There are only three and no more then three sources of calories they are fat, carbohydrates and proteins.  Any calorie is one of these three.

Alcohol makes four. I wish that it didn't.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: apriluk on March 21, 2010, 03:17:20 PM
I hope you don't mind me adding this,

Just to clarify the initial question as i have come across this discussion many times.

The thread has evolved to discuss some very important nutritional facts, which I have read and thoroughly appreciated the folks that have given their knowledge.

I have found that many people over the years have misunderstood or misread the question or statement. Please excuse me on this one but it pops up so often because it is often misread.

You would die if the ONLY thing you ate was rabbit. No vegetables, no fruit, no fish. (((true ! If you tried to live off any one single thing you would eventually die of malnutrition)
 
You would NOT die if the ONLY "meat" you ate was rabbit, but ate an otherwise balanced diet including vegetables, fruit and fish.  (((true)))

There is a huge difference in the way the statement is written or the question is asked/understood. It leads a lot of people to think that rabbit becomes some how toxic, if its the only meat available.

Sorry folks, just my two penneth,
Best wishes,
April 
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: mash on March 21, 2010, 06:32:46 PM
The body requires fat in order to process protein. If your diet is only protein the body uses it's stores to process it. Great at first if you want that lean look but bad long term if you want the alive look.

 ;D squirtin' coffee out my nose at work! thanks aslink +1
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Serellan on March 22, 2010, 07:24:56 PM
(http://yozh.org/images/zombie-thread.png)
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Dainty on March 22, 2010, 10:19:09 PM
I found this commentary on the subject by explorer Vilhjalmur Stefansson fascinating:

Quote
"When a scarcity of game forced the Indians to consume only small animals like rabbits, they suffered from "rabbit starvation."

The groups that depend on the blubber animals are the most fortunate, in the hunting way of life, for they never suffer from fat-hunger. This trouble is worst, so far as North America is concerned, among those forest Indians who depend at times on rabbits, the leanest animal in the North, and who develop the extreme fat-hunger known as rabbit-starvation. Rabbit eaters, if they have no fat from another source-beaver, moose, fish-will develop diarrhoea in about a week, with headache, lassitude and vague discomfort. If there are enough rabbits, the people eat till their stomachs are distended; but no matter how much they eat they feel unsatisfied. Some think a man will die sooner if he eats continually of fat-free meat than if he eats nothing, but this is a belief on which sufficient evidence for a decision has not been gathered in the North. Deaths from rabbit-starvation, or from the eating of other skinny meat, are rare; for everyone understands the principle, and any possible preventive steps are naturally taken."
(Source) (http://www.westonaprice.org/Guts-and-Grease-The-Diet-of-Native-Americans.html)
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: ModernSurvival on April 21, 2010, 10:09:46 PM

Alcohol makes four. I wish that it didn't.

Nope still three alcohol is considered a form of carbohydrate,

Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Schmidt on April 21, 2010, 11:44:59 PM
Nope still three alcohol is considered a form of carbohydrate,

In nutritional stuff I've read they differentiate between the two. Not that it matters  (http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/beverages/3840/2)or is on topic (http://wineintro.com/basics/health/usda.html).

The cure for rabbit starvation:
(http://[url=http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XHCidfWbQ_U/SjSqEvxv6eI/AAAAAAAADf0/OwQW4YjVxi4/s400/IMAG0062.jpg]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XHCidfWbQ_U/SjSqEvxv6eI/AAAAAAAADf0/OwQW4YjVxi4/s400/IMAG0062.jpg[/url])
Wrap it in bacon!
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: ModernSurvival on April 22, 2010, 07:40:11 AM
Wrap it in bacon!

PLUS ONE!

On it being not a carb, alcohol is really a form of sugar but the body doesn't process it as a sugar, (that is why some "low carb" products use sugar alcohols as a sweetener).  The effect on blood sugar is neutral,
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: sdcharger on June 04, 2010, 11:50:51 AM
When I "diet", I eat more whole foods.  It takes more time, but cut out all the processed crap for a month and tell me you don't feel better and look better.

Different people with different activity levels and genetic predispostions will need larger or smaller levels of protien and fat, but this will be up to you to figure out yourself through experimentation.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: traildad on October 15, 2010, 06:17:41 PM
I thought the problem with not getting enough fat is about fat soluble vitamins. No fat in the diet means those vitamins can't be dissolved and and absorbed by the body. Is there more to it than that?
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: CountryRootsCityJob on December 07, 2010, 11:00:27 AM
I thought the problem with not getting enough fat is about fat soluble vitamins. No fat in the diet means those vitamins can't be dissolved and and absorbed by the body. Is there more to it than that?

Hey, Traildad made a good point here... does anybody... wait... I can figure this out :P

Here's my first discovery (Verdict: Traildad is correct):http://www.anyvitamins.com/fat-soluble-vitamins-info.htm (http://www.anyvitamins.com/fat-soluble-vitamins-info.htm)
"They follow the same path of absorption as fat and any condition interfering with the absorption of fats would result in poor absorption of these vitamins as well."

So in conclusion, eat more bacon  ;D
~CRCJ
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: endurance on December 16, 2010, 03:52:40 PM
Fat is a lot more important than absorbing vitamins; it makes up part of healthy cell membranes, it sheaths nerve fibers, it stores energy...  If your diet is less than 5-10% fat, you are going to have health issues.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Cedar on June 09, 2011, 10:15:55 AM
(http://www.offthegridnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Nutrient-300x113.jpg)

And rabbit
Nutrition Facts
Serving Size 3 oz
 
Amount Per Serving
Calories from Fat 64
Calories 175
 
% Daily Values*
     Saturated Fat 2.134g    11%
     Polyunsaturated Fat 1.386g    
     Monounsaturated Fat 1.93g    
Cholesterol 73mg    24%
Sodium 31mg    1%
Potassium 255mg    
Total Carbohydrate 0g    0%
     Dietary Fiber 0g    0%
     Sugars 0g    
Protein 25.82g    
 
Vitamin A 0%       Vitamin C 0%
Calcium 2%       Iron 11%


This is why rabbit meat is good for people who have had heart attacks or want to loose weight. I refuse to eat wild rabbit, only domestic, Wild rabbit is all dark meat and domestic is all white meat.

Cedar
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: thezoo on June 09, 2011, 12:16:11 PM
Several Easters ago I sat through a survival lecture given by our very experienced and very serious Commando Sergeant Major. ( Company First Sargent)

After he mentioned the fact that consuming rabbit meat only would cause fat deficiencies, a hand shot up at the back of the room.

Corporal Bulger was a known 'character' within our unit. We were never quite sure if he was really that stupid or really that brilliant.

His question was, "Well, Sir, you know how you was talkin' about rabbits, right?".

Blinking a few times, the CSM patiently answered "Yes..."

"And how there's not enough fat on them?"

"Yes...." the CSM cautiously replied, unsure about where the good Corporal was taking this.

"Well, what about their eggs?"

 :o

The lectured ended early.
   where do you get rabbit eggs, id like to try them :rofl:
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Cedar on June 09, 2011, 01:58:36 PM
   where do you get rabbit eggs, id like to try them :rofl:

The Cadbury Bunny.. or make your own http://www.instructables.com/id/Homemade-Cadbury-Creme-Eggs/ (http://www.instructables.com/id/Homemade-Cadbury-Creme-Eggs/)

(http://www.instructables.com/image/FMLJ2OQGKI19F8T/Homemade-Cadbury-Creme-Eggs.jpg)

Cedar
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: 1022 on October 31, 2011, 08:20:51 AM
Rabbit starvation occurs because your body can't process more than 1200 calories worth of protein a day. In a survival situation one would probably burn through more than 1200 calories. As well some essential nutrients would not be obtained through the consumption of a protein exclusive diet.

This would lead to the body consuming itself to get the extra calories. In a long term situation this would stress organs like the liver and kidneys. I would deduce that death or illness would be from organ failure.

The key is fat. Like mentioned earlier there are no essential carbs, just fatty acids and amino acids.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: 1022 on October 31, 2011, 08:30:16 AM
Yum the thought of whale blubber is making me long for dinner.



He later was a researcher on a project in the Philippines working with malnourished children. The project became an investigation for Dr. Campbell, as to why so many Filipino children were being diagnosed with liver cancer, predominately an adult disease. The primary goal of the project was to ensure that the children were getting as much protein as possible.

“In this project, however, I uncovered a dark secret. Children who ate the highest protein diets were the ones most likely to get liver cancer...” He began to review other reports from around the world that reflected the findings of his research in the Philippines.


[/quote

You conveniently forgot to mention that the liver cancer refereed to in this research was caused by carcinogenic afla- toxins contained in the mold growing on the peanuts, which was ground into their protein source of peanut butter. One of the salient points in Colin Campbell`s book the China Study.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Cedar on October 31, 2011, 12:59:02 PM
When I hike, I burn 3,400 k/cals per average hike I calculated up in the past for a 9 mile hike 500 ft elevation with 27-31 pound back at 17% inclination at 70-80F, 62+% humidity.

In a comparison, a normal house dog burns 800-900 k/cals a day, where my sled dogs when I ran them were burning around 14,000 k/cals a day. There is NO WAY I could feed them enough feed to get that amount of energy, except for fat. I know that my trapper friends who ran fur traplines, fed beaver fat to the dogs as it packs alot of calories. My dogs just got beef fat, but their slump was 1/3 high end commercial dog food, 1/3 beef trim, 1/3 beef fat chunks and then water added and set next to woodstove half the day to make 'slump'.

I am not sure I would want to eat 'slump' myself, but something akin to it would be very good energy in a survival situation.

Cedar
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Shaunypoo on October 31, 2011, 01:24:51 PM
mmmmmmmmmmmmm, slump.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: inbox485 on October 31, 2011, 01:46:28 PM
About the only thing you need to know about rabbit starvation:

http://inbox485.blogspot.com/2011/10/rabbit-starvation-is-myth.html


This is why rabbit meat is good for people who have had heart attacks or want to loose weight. I refuse to eat wild rabbit, only domestic, Wild rabbit is all dark meat and domestic is all white meat.

Cedar

I'm curious about this. The cottontail rabbit I've had was virtually indistinguishable from the New Zealand that I've had. I thought they were both white meat. Is there a subtlety that makes one dark and the other white?
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Cedar on October 31, 2011, 09:14:28 PM
I'm curious about this. The cottontail rabbit I've had was virtually indistinguishable from the New Zealand that I've had. I thought they were both white meat. Is there a subtlety that makes one dark and the other white?

Now I am too. Did you have Eastern or Western Cottontail?

Cedar
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: inbox485 on November 01, 2011, 10:41:43 AM
Now I am too. Did you have Eastern or Western Cottontail?

Cedar

I'm in SoCal so barring any odd migration, I'm assuming it was Western. The hind legs are as white as chicken breast, and the rest is about on par with chicken thighs. They seem to have much tougher membranes than domestic rabbits, but I had assumed that had more to do with being truly out in the open their whole lives. Other than that, if I took a cleaned cottontail and a cleaned New Zealand of equal size, I'm not sure I could tell you which was which.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: inbox485 on November 01, 2011, 10:45:37 AM
I'm pretty sure all the Cottontails in my area are these guys: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Cottontail
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Cedar on November 01, 2011, 11:55:45 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Desert_Cottontail_area.png

That might be a difference? I am in Oregon and they are not in my area. I have seen 2 dressed wild Western Cottontails and they were both dark meat, like between domestic rabbit and dark chicken meat. I chose not to eat them due to Tularemia. Which is probably not common anymore, but I learned it in 4-H in 1977 and it has creeped me out since.

I am also spoiled in having 56 day old fryers which are tender that I can get out of the cages in the backyard or freezer  ;)

Cedar
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: inbox485 on November 01, 2011, 01:20:01 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Desert_Cottontail_area.png

That might be a difference? I am in Oregon and they are not in my area. I have seen 2 dressed wild Western Cottontails and they were both dark meat, like between domestic rabbit and dark chicken meat. I chose not to eat them due to Tularemia. Which is probably not common anymore, but I learned it in 4-H in 1977 and it has creeped me out since.

I am also spoiled in having 56 day old fryers which are tender that I can get out of the cages in the backyard or freezer  ;)

Cedar

Yeah. I pretty much treat wild rabbit as a potential blood borne pathogen vector until it gets cooked well. Honestly even that is probably paranoid on my part. From 2001 to 2008 there were a grand total of 16 cases in all of CA, and not one of them were from eating meat, and only a couple involved handling small game animals (and included direct contact with broken skin). Most were from fleas and ticks, a couple were from arthropod bites, and one interesting one was from getting cut while repairing farm fencing.  It seems like one of those things you stand a fair chance of getting anytime you contact any form of animal / soil / greenery / etc. but almost no chance from the actual eating of the animal. It is also notable that the odds of a healthy person dying from it are slim to none untreated and virtually zero with treatment. But yeah, if I can ever get my stinking rabbits to "breed like rabbits" I'll probably ease off the hunting anyway.
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Cedar on November 01, 2011, 05:30:51 PM
And that reminds me I need to go out and breed rabbits together today.. The last batch just went in the freezer. I am busy enough anymore that I breed them on the first of the month, then I never have to forget to write the breeding date down for the nextbox to be put in.  :)

Cedar
Title: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: apocalypticfiction on February 28, 2012, 11:24:39 AM
 ;) Just a friendly reminder: Don't mention rabbit starvation to Jack! He doesn't like it...LOL...had a great laugh on the latest listener call in episode. Thanks Jack!
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: LvsChant on February 28, 2012, 12:27:38 PM
topic merged with old topic of same name...

LC
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: HucksDaddy on February 28, 2012, 04:09:11 PM
Wow! Zombie thread until merged.  I've always gotten a kick out of listening to Jack go off about rabbit starvation.
Thank God it is a myth, I'd be dead by now!
Title: Re: Rabbit Starvation
Post by: Melodee on February 28, 2012, 04:31:21 PM
Oh yeah, I've heard about rabbit starvation! Has Jack ever commented on it???   ::)   lol