The Survival Podcast Forum

Farm, Garden and The Land => Gardening and Agriculture => Topic started by: Serenity Gulch on February 16, 2011, 12:08:54 PM

Title: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Serenity Gulch on February 16, 2011, 12:08:54 PM
I've been reading over on another site that the Dervaes family has registered the phrases "Urban Homestead" and "Urban Homesteading" as trademarks and are now having their lawyer send out "cease and desist" letters to other businesses, bloggers, and educational entities that use the phrase. They're also getting pages shut down on Facebook due to trademark infringement. Anyone else hear anything about this?
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: smittymoo on February 16, 2011, 12:10:40 PM
No but I think that trademark will be hard to defend based on Prior use.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: nkawtg on February 16, 2011, 12:28:12 PM
No but I think that trademark will be hard to defend based on Prior use.
Yes, but the deeper pockets win and the Dervaes family is making a ton of money now that they're famous.
It's sad really.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: kevo on February 16, 2011, 12:47:01 PM
According to the Dervaes Family Facebook page, which is ran by them, they state they are receiving death threats. But not for what you think.

Apparently, the have trademarked the term "Urban Homestead" and have been enforcing it with legal action, which seems to have backfired.
http://www.trademarkia.com/urban-homestead-77574809.html (http://www.trademarkia.com/urban-homestead-77574809.html)

Im on the fence about this... Clearly the want to protect their business and reputation but this seems like such drastic measures. It seems very anti to the movement they are promoting.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: kevo on February 16, 2011, 12:54:40 PM
Check out the "Dervaes Family" Facebook page... Lots of discussion there with most people disappointed with Dervaes family. It seems very anti to the movement they promote.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TexDaddy on February 16, 2011, 12:54:51 PM
It really seems like they are over reaching to me. They may be able to pull it off, but prior usage and common phrases considered, it will take some doing.

I was disappointed in them when I heard about this. It is still no cause for death threats, if it is more than a publicity stunt. I am sorry for this idea coming to mind, but after the trademarking stunt, who knows?
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: endurance on February 16, 2011, 01:05:18 PM
Personally, I think copywriting terms like Urban Homestead is just silly.  Is Jack going after Ferfal for http://www.themodernsurvivalist.com (http://www.themodernsurvivalist.com)?  I know Susan G. Komen is also suing everyone using the term "for the cure" in any event or promotion and I've stopped giving to them as a result.  There's more than one disease, there's more than one urban homesteader, and there's more than one modern survivalist.

Frankly, between that and never coming on the air with Jack, I'm about done with the Dervaes family.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: nkawtg on February 16, 2011, 01:29:51 PM
I'm just guessing, but when they started gaining the limelight some studio lawyer must have mentioned a trademark, that and greed has taken over common sense.
Like an incandescent bulb with too much juice, they will flair brightly for a time, and suddenly die out.
Call it the lottery syndrome....
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: kevo on February 16, 2011, 01:38:20 PM
The correspondent for the trademark is a trademark attorney in VA that specializes in small business trademarking.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: thezoo on February 16, 2011, 01:42:23 PM
maybe someone here needs to trademark the word homestead, then sue the but of the dervaious however you spell their name,  however that person needs to have a good moral fiber, only target those ass clowns, and not johnny max or anyone else ;D
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Amator on February 16, 2011, 01:42:51 PM
Interesting...the Facebook link on http://urbanhomestead.org/contact (http://urbanhomestead.org/contact) is http://www.facebook.com/dervaes (http://www.facebook.com/dervaes) which just redirects to Facebook's homepage.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 16, 2011, 01:53:27 PM
Once again proving to me that no matter how much you like some people, what they stand for or what they are doing, they are bound to disappoint you in one way or another.

It's one thing to copyright a business name to protect your reputation and so on, but this whole copyrighting terminology seems to go overboard quite often.

I guess they're lucky that no one with the Underground Railroad Heritage or History sites and projects have decided to sue the Dervaes Family for using "Path to Freedom"...
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Greywolf27 on February 16, 2011, 02:01:35 PM
kind of like trademarking a plant.....
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Roswell on February 16, 2011, 02:04:06 PM
Interesting...the Facebook link on http://urbanhomestead.org/contact (http://urbanhomestead.org/contact) is http://www.facebook.com/dervaes (http://www.facebook.com/dervaes) which just redirects to Facebook's homepage.

The Dervaes Family deleted that FB page where the discussion was going on.  They have several other FB pages though.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Todd R on February 16, 2011, 02:10:41 PM
So all these books and magazines I have collected over the last 5 years that use the phrase "urban homestead"... I need to destroy them immediately, right? Or do I just need to mail a check to Jules for proper compensation?

Its always sad to see someone tarnish the reputation of a lifes work in a grab for quick cash.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: archer on February 16, 2011, 02:11:03 PM
This really ticks me off, I am going to send them a letter/email about this.. Maybe we should get a petition going to stop this. They are hurting the cause of urban homesteading.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 16, 2011, 02:21:31 PM
I do not understand, in the slightest, why on Earth they've done this.

I'm going to flat out ask them via email why they've done it.  If they don't want to answer that question, they shouldn't have done it in the first place.

I AM an urban homesteader.  I will NEVER stop using the terms "urban homestead", "urban homesteading", or "urban homesteader" or any variation thereof.  I am a free human being, and I don't take well to being told I'm not allowed to use a phrase in print, because somebody has paid some government agency for special privileges.  

As others have said, this is completely anti-path-to-freedom.  It's not a business decision that makes sense.  It's got NOTHING to do with growing things, or living free.  It smacks of a very ugly, greedy sort of evil that Californians are very used to seeing.  I just hoped and thought that the Dervaes' were different.  Sort of untouched by the Califungus that eats most other huge movements that originate here.  And yeah, even though Mr. Dervaes has been doing this all over the world, Path To Freedom originated here in California.  About a half hour from me, actually, in Pasadena.

And as somebody has said to me in private, if their premises for doing this are as blatant as they seem (we want you to stand up to the government! do the RIGHT thing!  but don't you dare use this phrase, because we paid the same government to tell you that you can't), then the name of this board ought to be changed to "Path To Censorship".

I won't be giving them any hell on their FB page, or on their blog.  But I think they owe their fans and those of us who have respected them, spent money with them, and taken inspiration from their always-consistent actions (until now) an explanation.  If they had or have any backbone at all, they'll do so.  Sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: archer on February 16, 2011, 02:39:28 PM
I've emailed them @ info@pathtofreedom.com. Do you have a direct email address?
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 16, 2011, 02:57:32 PM
I've emailed them @ info@pathtofreedom.com. Do you have a direct email address?

Jordanne's got an account here.  I'm sure her email address is in her profile.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Amator on February 16, 2011, 02:58:50 PM
But I think they owe their fans and those of us who have respected them, spent money with them, and taken inspiration from their always-consistent actions (until now) an explanation.  If they had or have any backbone at all, they'll do so.  Sooner rather than later.

Damn right!  I am severely disappointed right now.  I held the Dervaes family in the highest esteem along with Wendell Berry, Joel Salatin, Sepp Holzer, and Jack Spirko.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 16, 2011, 03:02:02 PM
The open letter to them that I posted on my FB page:

Dear Dervaes Family,

 
There is never a reason for "death threats" and I hope you're hyping that, and that it's baloney. Or if it's not, I hope they find the bastards who issued the death threats, and I hope the government you're so buddy-buddy with now takes care of them for you.

 
But let me tell you, I am FULLY p-worded off about the fact that you've trademarked the phrases "urban homestead" and "urban homesteading". You've lost my business, my recommendations, and - most importantly - my respect. I expected better out of you, but I guess the Califungus worked its way into your pockets as well.


Look, the bottom line is this:

Either you need to retract your nonsense, or you need to go out of business the ol' free market way. And believe me, people WILL stop spending their money with companies that try to corner the market on freedom. I'm just shocked that you even considered doing it, or worse, that you considered it, thought it was a great idea, and then FOLLOWED THROUGH.

 
You need to address this candidly with your former fans. You owe us an explanation.

 
I'm just so disappointed.  I have this sick feeling that you'll use the "death threats" BS to make a stand on the subject of taking away others freedoms (as a reporter on South Park was once want to say, "If irony were strawberries, we'd all be drinking a lot of daiquiris right now"), and that people will actually back you for no reason other than the fact that you won't back down from a death threat.

 
Forget the fact that what you're doing goes against every single thing you've ever taught.  Forget the fact that you're raping the entire concept of freedom by doing this.  Forget the fact that what you're doing goes against every moral fiber of my nature.

What you're doing is WRONG.  You're hurting the urban homesteading (oooh, I said the words! better sue me!) community, and you're hurting yourselves in doing so.

 
You need to stop, backpedal, apologize, and explain how you took so many wrong turns in the first place.  Bring the death threats to the authorities and let THEM deal with it.  Don't cry-whine about it on your twitter page and delete every single conversation about the situation you created on your Facebook pages.

 
You're abandoning everybody who has ever supported you, and everything we stand for.  I hope you're happy with that, Path To Freedom.  And I hope you understand just how disappointed I am, and just how much I will talk about this, and about what sort of a "path" you really are to every single person I meet here in California, and every single other place I ever go where your names are collectively or individually brought up.  You're no different from the government here.  Corrupt from the toes up.  Greedy to the core.


I'm disgusted, and I hope you realize just what a huge mistake this was.


-[name redacted even though most of you already know my name lol] - an urban homesteader who refuses to stop speaking or typing those words for anybody's sake.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: nkawtg on February 16, 2011, 03:24:33 PM
I just googled urban homestead and trademark and found this;
http://urbanhomestead.org/journal/2011/02/16/fyi-urban-homestead-trademark-matter/ (http://urbanhomestead.org/journal/2011/02/16/fyi-urban-homestead-trademark-matter/)

It's a claim that the cease and desist letters are false.

Here is a FAQ on the subject.
http://urbanhomestead.org/faq (http://urbanhomestead.org/faq)

Still don't buy the whoe "keeping the name pure" thing.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Ori on February 16, 2011, 03:33:23 PM
From their FAQ

"But I want to write about my urban homestead -- can I not use or refer to "Urban Homesteading" or "Urban Homestead" in my blog?
If you aren't using it to make money and are simply documenting your life or sharing your information, this would only require that you update your websites and articles to properly cite our works and properly acknowledge if used. 

When using these trademarked terms, the proper way to go about it is as follows:

Proper trademark usage should include the proper trademark notice [®],  and note in close proximity that the term is a protected trademark of Dervaes Institute or link to the site.

URBAN HOMESTEAD®

URBAN HOMESTEADING®

That's it!  If you want to label a for-profit endeavor with the term, we ask that you contact us first. 

Thank you in advance for respecting our legally protected intellectual property rights. If you have been supportive of our ten-year online work in the past, we appreciate very much your continued support.

If you have any questions regarding the use of Dervaes materials or trademarks, please contact us at (626) 795-8400. We would be glad to provide you with more details.”

That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard today. My garden, my URBAN HOMESTEAD has nothing to do with the Dervaes, nothing to do with what they’ve done, and absolutely nothing to do with their “works.”
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: archer on February 16, 2011, 03:47:47 PM
screw 'em.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 16, 2011, 03:53:57 PM
I just googled urban homestead and trademark and found this;
http://urbanhomestead.org/journal/2011/02/16/fyi-urban-homestead-trademark-matter/ (http://urbanhomestead.org/journal/2011/02/16/fyi-urban-homestead-trademark-matter/)

It's a claim that the cease and desist letters are false.

That IS a cease and desist letter.  Just because the actual phrase "cease and desist" isn't in the letter doesn't make it any less of what it is.  That's like calling a fart a "digestive exclamation".  It's a fricking fart, regardless of what you call it.

The fact that she posted that letter and tried to basically say, "what?  what's wrong with us telling you that you can't use that phrase when referring to urban homesteading? that's not us telling you you can't use it.  It's just us telling you you can't use it.  Duh.  There's like totally a difference."

What is the matter with people this year?  GET A FRICKIN' CLUE.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: joeinwv on February 16, 2011, 03:57:19 PM
If someone is a Robert Jordan / Wheel of Time fan - is it okay for the Ogiers to refer to it as an Urban Homested or Urban Homestedding?


I guess we will need a new vocabulary, as soon as the suburbanhomesteading, oursuburbanhomestead, yoursuburbanhomestead, suburbanmicrofarm, mysuburbanhomestead - all have to shut their sites down.

(I am not posting links to post other sites, but there are a ton of derivations already online.)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 16, 2011, 03:57:32 PM
Along the same lines, I think Bill Mollison tried to Trademark the term "permaculture" at one point and was denied. At least he came up with the term and it wasn't a well used Adjective and Noun put together.

I'd be interested to know if the term "Urban Homestead" existed prior to the Stumbling Block to Freedom website.

In any case, perhaps this is all some huge internet misunderstanding. I hope those of you that sent out emails asking are answered. Please keep us informed.

 
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 16, 2011, 03:59:59 PM
That IS a cease and desist letter.  Just because the actual phrase "cease and desist" isn't in the letter doesn't make it any less of what it is.  That's like calling a fart a "digestive exclamation".  It's a fricking fart, regardless of what you call it.

Ha! Digestive Exclamation© Sis  :rofl:
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 16, 2011, 04:02:24 PM
In any case, perhaps this is all some huge internet misunderstanding. I hope those of you that sent out emails asking are answered. Please keep us informed.

Anais's post about the cease and desist letter leads me to believe that we're not the ones who are misunderstanding anything.  They are.  I highly suggest that if any of you "like" them on facebook or follow them on Twitter, just stop.  Ban these posers.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: nkawtg on February 16, 2011, 04:05:19 PM
Sheesh, it's like trademarking "Cattle Ranch"
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Roswell on February 16, 2011, 04:07:20 PM
If someone is a Robert Jordan / Wheel of Time fan - is it okay for the Ogiers to refer to it as an Urban Homested or Urban Homestedding?
Lol. I'm a huge Robert Jordan fan and found that quite humorous.

Also, I am in the process of coining the term "Dervaes family"  :D

Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 16, 2011, 04:07:52 PM
Sheesh, it's like trademarking "Cattle Ranch"

Exactly.  And then writing a letter to people telling them that if they're referring to other cattle ranches, the proper way would be to either call it a CATTLE RANCH (tm) and reference their works in a way they're happy with, or call it a bovine farm, or a cow palace, or some equally ghey name that nobody will ever use.

Otherwise, *shakes fist*

But it's not a cease and desist letter.  ::)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: archer on February 16, 2011, 04:12:03 PM
Also if you are a member of www.FreedomGardens.org (http://www.FreedomGardens.org) consider closing/deleting your account. Once I can login I am going to do so.

edit: Here is the admin email for FREEDOMGARDENS.ORG: dervaes@pathtofreedom.com
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Mr. Bill on February 16, 2011, 04:13:54 PM
I'd be interested to know if the term "Urban Homestead" existed prior to the Stumbling Block to Freedom website.

I don't know about their website, but the trademark for "Urban Homestead" was filed on 9/19/08 and registered on 10/5/2010.  So I'd like to know what they're going to do about, for example, [amazonsearch]The Urban Homestead: Your Guide to Self-sufficient Living in the Heart of the City[/amazonsearch] by Kelly Coyne and Erik Knutzen, published 6/1/08.  Or the Urban Homesteading Assistance Board (http://www.uhab.org/history), founded in 1973.  Or any of the other 212,000 hits on Google that have nothing to do with the Dervaes family.

They should never have been granted a trademark in a common pre-existing term.  On top of that, even if they do own the trademark, they only have a legal right to prohibit the use of the phrase by competing businesses, not in common parlance.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: joeinwv on February 16, 2011, 04:17:42 PM
...
*shakes fist*
...
I think Sunrunner4 TM'd that on the motley fool boards around 1998 - if he tells you to stop, tell him I said to eff off.

Back on topic - I like the idea of using the Dervaes name as a cliche. So appropriating a common term / lexicon and using it as a TM would be "Pulling a Dervaes"...
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 16, 2011, 04:21:11 PM
Anais's post about the cease and desist letter leads me to believe that we're not the ones who are misunderstanding anything.  They are.  I highly suggest that if any of you "like" them on facebook or follow them on Twitter, just stop.  Ban these posers.

I had to check... I know I "Liked" or "Friended" or somethinged them somewhere. I can't for the life of me recall where now.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Roswell on February 16, 2011, 04:28:30 PM
I have removed their video and link from my website MakingaHomestead.com (http://makingahomestead.com)

And NO I will not be changing the name.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Herbalpagan on February 16, 2011, 04:56:22 PM
I just don't think that their idea of FREEDOM is the same as most of ours. I am not surprised at all.  I admore their work, but have never believed they were anything but what we think of as California liberals...nothing wrong with that, unless you believe that they are different, then you get disappointed.
Sorry this has happened. It WILL affect several blogs I know of.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: fritz_monroe on February 16, 2011, 05:00:15 PM
I'm also extremely disappointed in them.  I guess fame corrupts, or maybe they were just building to this from the very beginning.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 16, 2011, 05:08:46 PM
I don't know about their website, but the trademark for "Urban Homestead" was filed on 9/19/08 and registered on 10/5/2010.  So I'd like to know what they're going to do about, for example, [amazonsearch]The Urban Homestead: Your Guide to Self-sufficient Living in the Heart of the City[/amazonsearch] by Kelly Coyne and Erik Knutzen, published 6/1/08.  Or the Urban Homesteading Assistance Board (http://www.uhab.org/history), founded in 1973.  Or any of the other 212,000 hits on Google that have nothing to do with the Dervaes family.

Thanks for the info Mr. Bill!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 16, 2011, 05:10:27 PM
I wonder if the term "D-Bag Homestead" has been copyrighted.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TexDaddy on February 16, 2011, 05:12:46 PM
I once admired them. Now, I have scraped things off of the bottom of my boots I have more respect for.  :(
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: archer on February 16, 2011, 05:17:57 PM
I deleted my account on FreedomGardens.org
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 16, 2011, 05:41:24 PM
Also if you are a member of www.FreedomGardens.org (http://www.FreedomGardens.org) consider closing/deleting your account. Once I can login I am going to do so.

Done.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: ZenGunFighter on February 16, 2011, 06:03:06 PM
If I might have everyone's attention.

Having aspirations of becoming a Gentleman Farmer, I hearby declare, and announce to the world
on this date, February 16th in this two thosandth and eleventh year in the Common Era, that
I am commandeering and appropriating the name 'Urbane Homesteader'

Thank you all so much for your attention.
You may all now carry on.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 16, 2011, 06:16:13 PM
LOL

Dibs on "Homesteader of Urban Space".  :D
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Dawgus on February 16, 2011, 06:52:42 PM
 This does pi$$ me off, but I'm not taking it too seriously.  I do find what they have done as admirable and inspiring, but, in my opinion, they've been far too long looked at as the "gods" of what they do.  I'm sure there are other families out there that do the same, if not more, that go unrecognized. Not to toot my own horn in any way, shape or, form; but my wife and I managed to pull just under 1100lbs of produce from our one acre last year. If we had the resources and help beyond just the two of us like they do, I could easily triple our production. Let alone have the 30+ years to build ours to what they have.
 To me, they're nothing but an example of what happens when someone takes their food production seriously, and makes it a priority, no differently than my wife and I do. Right now, I want to thank them for making me want to do everything possible to double (or more) what we had accomplished last year. We won't have a large family to help. We won't have all of the equipment and systems they do. It will be the same as always, and just be the two of us. Two thousand plus pounds, here we come. Thanks for the inspiration a-holes. Suppose I should trademark my blog name......*sigh*
  BTW, is Gene Simmons their legal council?  :D
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Amator on February 16, 2011, 06:55:09 PM
I deleted my account on FreedomGardens.org

Same here. 
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: ZenGunFighter on February 16, 2011, 07:09:17 PM
While I'm at it, I think I'll also grab;
- Homesteadopolis
-metro homesteading

And Yo! Check it out homie! Ghetto homesteader.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Amator on February 16, 2011, 07:16:57 PM

And Yo! Check it out homie! Ghetto homesteader.

Ghomestedda
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: fritz_monroe on February 16, 2011, 07:29:00 PM
I deleted my account on FreedomGardens.org
Same here.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TexDaddy on February 16, 2011, 07:38:07 PM
I deleted my account on FreedomGardens.org
It kinda makes me sorry I never had one, so I could delete it now.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: fritz_monroe on February 16, 2011, 07:40:32 PM
It kinda makes me sorry I never had one, so I could delete it now.
I didn't remember creating an account.  So I went to the log on page and did a forgot password.  I was surprised that there was an account.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 16, 2011, 07:48:37 PM
It kinda makes me sorry I never had one, so I could delete it now.

LOL No kidding. I've got no way to register my complaint.  :D
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Brianzona on February 16, 2011, 08:24:52 PM
hmmmm...I was thinking about trademarking the word "the"
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: elcoyote on February 16, 2011, 08:37:23 PM
I've trademarked the words "ant" and "grasshopper".  You don't have to stop using those terms, just ask before using them and let everyone know that they belong to me.

But don't forget to be free!  ::)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Roswell on February 16, 2011, 08:44:24 PM
They have now shut down both of their facebook pages rather than deal with people's comments. I'd hoped they would change their minds, but it doesn't seem to be happening.  "Path to Freedom"  :eyebrow: They may want to rename themselves after this. Path to Irony, Path to Greed, Path to Turn-coating, Path to Self Ostracization, Path to Disappointment.  These are just a few I had in mind

hmmmm...I was thinking about trademarking the word "the"

Seriously.

BTW, when you get the chance, please stop over at the Intro Thread (http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=89.0) and introduce yourself.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: ModernSurvival on February 16, 2011, 09:44:31 PM
Two words spring to mind,

1.  Douchebag

2.  Stupid

They had a thriving business but greed just crapped the bed for them.  I will NEVER do a thing for them again.  In spite of the misguided hippy bullshit politics that made Jules refuse to come on TSP despite me sending them over 100,000 visits I continued to mention them and continued to keep a link on the front of TSP for them until today.

What a bunch of dumbasses.  The fact I helped these people makes me want to puke!  You know I would have a bigger claim on the term modern survivalism then they don on fricken urban homestead.  May be I should trademark that and publicly state anyone can use it any time they want before some other assclown tries to do so for greed purposes. 

Anyway the only good side about the help I gave them is I can and will take it away.  Tomorrow 20,000 people will hear about this douchbaggery.  I figure more than a few of my listeners own a blog,  :o  I am not waging war but I will take back some of the clearly misguided goodwill I sent them in the past. 

Karma is a bitch!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TexDaddy on February 16, 2011, 09:51:26 PM
If someone is a Robert Jordan / Wheel of Time fan - is it okay for the Ogiers to refer to it as an Urban Homested or Urban Homestedding?...
I also and a huge Robert Jordan/Wheel of Time fan.  If a stedding can be considered 'urban' then they are without doubt Urban Homesteddings.

BTW, do you have a source for sung wood? I can't find it anywhere.  ;D

...Anyway the only good side about the help I gave them is I can and will take it away.  Tomorrow 20,000 people will hear about this douchbaggery.  I figure more than a few of my listeners own a blog,  :o  I am not waging war but I will take back some of the clearly misguided goodwill I sent them in the past. 

Karma is a bitch!
Jack, I certainly wouldn't mind if you took down the entire 'Path to Freedom' board. Contains a lot of bragging on them from back when we thought they were decent people.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: OKGranny on February 16, 2011, 11:24:15 PM
I used to feel like some sort of pariah because I didn't care for these people at all. Something about them just set my teeth on edge, they just didn't ring true for me at all. I'm sorry this has come down this way but I can't say I'm surprised.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: thezoo on February 17, 2011, 01:54:34 AM
It kinda makes me sorry I never had one, so I could delete it now.
  i was thinking the same dang thing ;D
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: smuglydawg on February 17, 2011, 03:02:24 AM
In addition, Dervaes Institute owns numerous trademarks which should be properly acknowledged if used. These protected names and images include the following registered trademarks:

These are common
URBAN HOMESTEAD®
URBAN HOMESTEADING®
PATH TO FREEDOM®

GROW THE FUTURE®

HOMEGROWN REVOLUTION®
Is that what happen when people raise up?

FREEDOM GARDENS®
 LITTLE HOMESTEAD IN THE CITY®

Now does anyone know the legal fee is you dont copyright when you use it?

Cause I could make up some words and make some monies.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: summer98 on February 17, 2011, 06:52:22 AM
I know lots of people are disappointed, but given what I know of them, I can't say that I'm surprised.

What a bunch of dumbasses.  The fact I helped these people makes me want to puke!  You know I would have a bigger claim on the term modern survivalism then they don on fricken urban homestead.  May be I should trademark that and publicly state anyone can use it any time they want before some other assclown tries to do so for greed purposes. 

Jack, I know you were joking, but you might want to seriously consider doing so. Someone is eventually going to do it now that it has taken off, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Dervaes' decide do it if they get mad enough at you.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Amator on February 17, 2011, 07:03:44 AM
Jack, I know you were joking, but you might want to seriously consider doing so. Someone is eventually going to do it now that it has taken off, and I wouldn't be surprised if the De®vaes' decide do it if they get mad enough at you.

Not a bad idea.  It wouldn't be a "you must credit us when you use the generic words" issues like with the De®vae$ family, but it would offer some protection if any other assclown does it and tries to come after you.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 17, 2011, 07:58:12 AM
I had a "good" night's sleep and time to think this situation over a little and I've come to the conclusion
I still don't get it...

This morning when I woke, or rather failed to sleep some more, I had decided to go over to their blog to pen a nice letter on why people are having a bad reaction to "The De®vaes Institute" copyrighting and enforcing usage of the term "Urban Homestead". However, they've closed down the comments on their blog at least where this particular topic is concerned and so I didn't pursue the idea of a letter any further.

At this point I've come to the conclusion that they just don't care to read about the issue. They'll write up their rights, but they don't want to read an opposing viewpoint. This may be due to hot tempers and abusive posts, this seems to be commonplace on the internet after all.

They did what they did and they're sticking to their guns.

For me it all comes down to this:
If you're out to make the world a better place you design something like the Rocket Stove (yes, Rocket Stoves tickle my fancy), provide designs and let the world in on it without copyrighting the whole shebang. If you're interested in something other than making the world a better place you take an old idea, say that your enhancements make it brand spankin' new, lawyer up and lock it all down. Their Path to Freesomosity impinges on your right to Freedomnisism and they neither care nor see that as a fact.

And they openly admit that the "Urban Homestead" is an old idea, but claim their way of doing things makes the pre-existing terminology new and therefore their own.

I'd post a pull quote from the blog post where the above is mentioned, but I don't want to get a "De®vaes Institute Not-A-Cease-and-Disist Letter©®™". They posted it for the world to see and now the admission is out there until the internet ceases to be (I pdf'ed it just in case).


On a side note, I love what the mods did when you include the De®vaes name in a post.  :D
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: kevo on February 17, 2011, 10:03:19 AM
According to trademarkia.com Dervaes Institute has 19 records.

http://www.trademarkia.com/company-dervaes-institute-33638-page-1-2 (http://www.trademarkia.com/company-dervaes-institute-33638-page-1-2)

They include...
- Little Homestead In the City (2010)
- Barnyards and Backyards (2010)
- Homesteadville (2010)
- Free The Seeds (2008)
- Path To Freedom (2008)
- Revolution Solution (2008)
- My Other Supermarket Is My Garden (2008)
- One Trowel Revolution (2008)
- Reject Resist Revolt (2008)
- Freedom Seeds (2008 DEAD)
- Urban Homestead (2008)
- Freedom Gardens (2008)
- logo of hand holding trowel (2007)
- Peddler's Wagon (2007)
- Path to Freedom (2007)
- Urban Homesteading (2007)
- Grow The Future (2007)
- The Path To Change The World Begins At Your Door (2007)
- Homegrown Revolution (2007)

Maybe we should reject, resist and revolt.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Mr. Bill on February 17, 2011, 10:44:09 AM
http://www.trademarkia.com/company-De®vaes-institute-33638-page-1-2 (http://www.trademarkia.com/company-De®vaes-institute-33638-page-1-2)

Oh dear, there seems to be a spelling error in your link. :rofl:

(My apologies -- that's my doing.  I'll look for a workaround.  In the meanwhile, if anyone needs that link, just replace "®" with "r" manually.)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Serenity Gulch on February 17, 2011, 10:46:54 AM
(My apologies -- that's my doing.  I'll look for a workaround.  In the meanwhile, if anyone needs that link, just replace "®" with "r" manually.)

I was wondering who set that up. +1 to you sir.  ;D
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: chrisdfw on February 17, 2011, 10:47:15 AM
The trademarking thing is getting a little excessive everywhere, but it makes me sick that someone promoting homesteading of any kind would be a part of this blatant consumerism. I am so glad I have an empty stomach right now.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: spartan on February 17, 2011, 11:12:27 AM
May be I should trademark that and publicly state anyone can use it any time they want before some other assclown tries to do so for greed purposes. 

I'd do it in a heartbeat if I were in your shoes Jack.  Once it's done release some simple rules to make it free/easy for others to use by others.

From my own experience as someone who practices Permaculture, I like the way Mollison did it: If you've taken a Permaculture Design Course and gained the Certificate, you can use the word as a way to earn money and teach the classes.  Yes, it's protected, but it's not difficult to be able to use it in a for-profit manner, nor is it enforced unless someone goes way off the rails.

http://www.permaculture.net/apd/permaculture_use_and_copyrights.htm (http://www.permaculture.net/apd/permaculture_use_and_copyrights.htm)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: endurance on February 17, 2011, 11:22:09 AM
I'd do it in a heartbeat if I were in your shoes Jack.  Once it's done release some simple rules to make it free/easy for others to use by others.
Since there's others who've already started using it (i.e. ferfal), it might actually be a little tricky.  That said, to release it to the universe would be the right thing to do.  All this stuff is just silly.  I understand Coke copywriting "It's the real thing", for commercial reasons, but when your entire movement is about personal freedom and you play this game, it's self-defeating.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 17, 2011, 11:35:35 AM
Good commentary on this subject today during The Survival Podcast, Jack.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: summer98 on February 17, 2011, 12:29:43 PM
The Dervaes have now accused the authors of "The Urban Homesteading Book" of infringing their copyright, despite the fact that the book was published BEFORE the copyright was issued.
Gee, I think I'm going to copyright the word "shoes" and then sue every manufacturer in the world!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 17, 2011, 12:44:03 PM
The De®vaes have now accused the authors of "The Urban Homesteading Book" of infringing their copyright, despite the fact that the book was published BEFORE the copyright was issued.
Gee, I think I'm going to copyright the word "shoes" and then sue every manufacturer in the world!

Yeah, I couldn't believe when I heard Jack mention that on today's podcast. I'm going to pick up their book. Maybe we can rocket up the charts on Amazon.  :D
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: archer on February 17, 2011, 12:54:30 PM
The De®vaes have now accused the authors of "The Urban Homesteading Book" of infringing their copyright, despite the fact that the book was published BEFORE the copyright was issued.
I've ordered a copy of it.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 17, 2011, 01:02:01 PM
if anyone else is interested in ordering this book, the title is "The Urban Homestead: Your Guide to Self-sufficient Living in the Heart of the City". It can be purchased in paper or electronic versions from Amazon.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: archer on February 17, 2011, 01:05:41 PM
if anyone else is interested in ordering this book, the title is "The Urban Homestead: Your Guide to Self-sufficient Living in the Heart of the City". It can be purchased in paper or electronic versions from Amazon.

Interesting. they are in LA. Wonder if there is more to why the De®vaes family are going after them.
---About---
We live in the heart of Los Angeles, in a little bungalow set on a 1/12 acre lot where almost all of our land is devoted to growing edible or otherwise useful plants and trees. We bought this house 1998, and we date our fascination with the old home arts to our sudden transformation into befuddled home owners. All of a sudden we had a yard--a yard full of weeds and dying trees--and had to start from scratch. What made sense for to plant for this climate, for wildlife, and for us? We learned that we lean toward the practical rather than the aesthetic, so we focused on feeding ourselves, and tangentially, all of the beneficial wildlife we can attract. Growing food led inevitably to learning about storing, preserving and cooking food. Add some hens to the mix, as well as good friends and neighbors with similar interests, Erik's bicycle obsession, Kelly's survivalist obsessions, and good deal of homemade beer. A lifestyle was born!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: OKGranny on February 17, 2011, 01:29:45 PM
If it were just them I might wonder if there was another agenda but I've been looking at articles all day on people who have gotten these letters, even one about a woman in Oakland who got a cease and desist letter and is being blamed by the 'family in Pasadena' for starting all the backlash even though she says she was so shocked she never said or wrote a word about it.

I've decided if we ever move back into town I'm going to call my place an urban farmstead and I'll be on the "road to self suffiency". Then maybe I can stay out of trouble till another 'family from Pasadena' decides to copyright those words.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: amanadoo on February 17, 2011, 02:02:17 PM
I used to feel like some sort of pariah because I didn't care for these people at all. Something about them just set my teeth on edge, they just didn't ring true for me at all. I'm sorry this has come down this way but I can't say I'm surprised.

Ditto, ditto, ditto! They gave me a weird vibe, and I JUST COULD NOT understand why they wouldn't come on the podcast. But of course, I swear by TSP, so I'm biased. What a bunch of dick-bruise faces.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 17, 2011, 02:12:25 PM
I wonder if they've drawn a lot of attention with this business. I just tried to go to their site to see if there was any more mention of this issue and got the following:

"Safari can’t connect to the server.
Safari can’t open the page “blahblahblah” because Safari can’t connect to the server “yaddayaddaya”.
:o

Never mind, it came up.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Mr. Bill on February 17, 2011, 02:21:22 PM
"Safari can’t connect to the server.
Safari can’t open the page “blahblahblah” because Safari can’t connect to the server “yaddayaddaya”.
:o

Their site is probably getting more traffic today from the bad publicity than they ever got from all their good work. :(
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Dan on February 17, 2011, 04:37:36 PM
Is it me or does this remind anyone else of Jim Zumbo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Zumbo) and his February 16th 2007 "Terrorist Rifles" blog entry in which Mr. Zumbo, a well known  hunting commentator, committed career suicide by  calling AR and AK rifles "Terrorist rifles" and writing "I say game departments should ban them from the prairies and woods."

How can people who work for so long within a community make such an error?

Btw, unsubscribed from their YouTube channel.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: CBP on February 17, 2011, 05:08:32 PM
Ditto, ditto, ditto! They gave me a weird vibe, and I JUST COULD NOT understand why they wouldn't come on the podcast. But of course, I swear by TSP, so I'm biased. What a bunch of dick-bruise faces.

Add me to that list as well.  The whole set up was odd to me, really had me squinting a bit. 

And I do have the Urban Homesteading book already, but I will buy another and donate it to my local library --- excellent book. 


Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: OKGranny on February 17, 2011, 05:21:05 PM
Add me to that list as well.  The whole set up was odd to me, really had me squinting a bit. 

And I do have the Urban Homesteading book already, but I will buy another and donate it to my local library --- excellent book. 


What a great idea! I didn't buy it because I own it already but I will now go buy one and donate it.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: archer on February 17, 2011, 05:23:04 PM
Online petion to try to get them to cancel their trademarks:

http://www.change.org/petitions/cancel-trademarks-on-urban-homestead-and-urban-homesteading#updates (http://www.change.org/petitions/cancel-trademarks-on-urban-homestead-and-urban-homesteading#updates)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 17, 2011, 05:32:59 PM
Thanks for the link, Archer!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 17, 2011, 05:33:31 PM
Online petion to try to get them to cancel their trademarks:

http://www.change.org/petitions/cancel-trademarks-on-urban-homestead-and-urban-homesteading#updates (http://www.change.org/petitions/cancel-trademarks-on-urban-homestead-and-urban-homesteading#updates)

Signed.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: donaldj on February 17, 2011, 05:36:24 PM
Jack, I would not try to Copyright "Modern Survival".  To me this is becoming what you despise.

However, copyrighting "Ass clown" might have a lot of support...     ;D
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 17, 2011, 05:46:11 PM
Donald, I think you misunderstand.  He wants to trademark it so that nobody else does.  And then his trademark rules will be "anybody can use this at any time for any reason."
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: donaldj on February 17, 2011, 05:55:08 PM
Donald, I think you misunderstand.  He wants to trademark it so that nobody else does.  And then his trademark rules will be "anybody can use this at any time for any reason."

Ah, then I did misunderstand.  This isn't a bad idea then.  =)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: summer98 on February 17, 2011, 06:02:18 PM
if anyone else is interested in ordering this book, the title is "The Urban Homestead: Your Guide to Self-sufficient Living in the Heart of the City". It can be purchased in paper or electronic versions from Amazon.

Sorry about getting the name wrong...I've been home all day with a nasty sinus infection and my noggin is none too clear!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 17, 2011, 06:34:49 PM
No worries. Get well soon!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Cooter Brown on February 17, 2011, 07:36:07 PM
However, copyrighting "Ass clown" might have a lot of support...     ;D

Hmm, does that mean that noone could actually be one without Jack's prior permission? :D
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Mr. Bill on February 17, 2011, 08:46:48 PM
This situation has made it to BoingBoing (http://www.boingboing.net/), which is, last I heard, the most popular blog on the planet.

I think the Dervaes's may be having a Mubarak Moment.  I hope they will realize that the overwhelming opposition means that they've screwed up.  It's time for a graceful surrender and apology.  (And for firing their intellectual-property attorney!)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: nkawtg on February 17, 2011, 09:41:57 PM
They may not have a leg to stand on. According to their trademark activity, (here is the link: http://tmportal.uspto.gov/external/portal/tow?SRCH=Y&isSubmitted=true&details=&SELECT=US+Serial+No&TEXT=77574809 (http://tmportal.uspto.gov/external/portal/tow?SRCH=Y&isSubmitted=true&details=&SELECT=US+Serial+No&TEXT=77574809)) their Urban Homestead application was disapproved once.
They signed a declaration that Urban Homestead was a distinctive trademark for at least 5 years. I don't think they can back that up.
See the declaration:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26331487@N06/5454759825# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26331487@N06/5454759825#)

Next here is a catalog from a different different company.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26331487@N06/5454759783/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26331487@N06/5454759783/#)

I think it shows that the De®vaes have not had exclusive or distinctive use of the trademark.
Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 17, 2011, 09:49:47 PM
I agree.  They've NEVER had a distinctive/exclusive use of "urban homestead" OR "urban homesteading".  Not in the last 5 years.  Not ever.

They're tools, they're greedy, and honestly... at this point, I wouldn't care if they came back and said that their attorney had a gun to their collective heads and forced them physically to defend themselves, or to create the trademark to begin with.  I'm done with them, and I hope their business falls so hard, it's incapable of ever being revived.

Use that to pay your bills, Jules.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: chrisdfw on February 18, 2011, 12:02:41 AM
I agree.  They've NEVER had a distinctive/exclusive use of "urban homestead" OR "Urban homesteader".  Not in the last 5 years.  Not ever.

They're tools, they're greedy, and honestly... at this point, I wouldn't care if they came back and said that their attorney had a gun to their collective heads and forced them physically to defend themselves, or to create the trademark to begin with.  I'm done with them, and I hope their business falls so hard, it's incapable of ever being revived.

Use that to pay your bills, Jules.

And I agree with this, well said.

Lets just trademark every common phrase and try to rip off everyone using it before because they never imagined you could copyright a common combination of words. I hope someone being bullied legally rips their f-ing heads off.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: The Wilderness on February 18, 2011, 12:06:10 AM

Use that to pay your bills, Jules.

I love my wife.

TW
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: thezoo on February 18, 2011, 01:54:54 AM
I love my wife.

TW

  Im never gonna f with her for sure, I wouldnt have to worry bout you kicking the crap out of me, I'd have to beg you to get her off of me before she killed me :rofl:
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: kenser321 on February 18, 2011, 02:34:24 AM
Ordered!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Trash on February 18, 2011, 03:56:03 AM
I too am disheartened about this but dont let ths break the movement. Shams and Charlatans abound to divide and conquer and attempt tp break the spirit of the movement
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 18, 2011, 06:49:02 AM
This situation has made it to BoingBoing (http://www.boingboing.net/), which is, last I heard, the most popular blog on the planet.

I think the De®vaes's may be having a Mubarak Moment.  I hope they will realize that the overwhelming opposition means that they've screwed up.  It's time for a graceful surrender and apology.  (And for firing their intellectual-property attorney!)


Last year when the "Cooks Source" plagiarism story hit BoingBoing, Reddit, et al. the story blew up and people who didn't care about recipes or anything related to cooking started jumping on the internet justice train. The Cooks Source hullabaloo probably could have been avoided early on if the editor of the magazine had stood back and taken a different tact, but she chose not to. I think we're seeing a little bit of the same thing here. The initial reaction to objections of the copyrighting of "Urban Homestead" by the Institute could have made all the difference.

This is not going to be pretty.  :popcorn:

Here is an OC Weekly article (http://blogs.ocweekly.com/stickaforkinit/2011/02/pasadena_family_trademarks_the.php) on the story that was linked through BoingBoing. There are some good updates there.

Oops... That BoingBoing got into my FaceBook...  ;)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 18, 2011, 07:28:52 AM
Here is a story from LA Weekly (http://blogs.laweekly.com/squidink/2011/02/urban_homestead_drama.php) on how the copyright claim and the "De®vaes Institute Not-a-Cease-and-Desist Letters" have directly affected people within the "Homesteading of the Urban" community.

From the article linked above:
"A farmers market she had contacted in Denver, Colorado, that used their Facebook page to do outreach to 2000 people was shut down. The IUH's (Institute of Urban Homesteading) page met a similar fate shortly after, cutting off one of Blume's more important communication tools." Parenthesis added by me

Denver Urban Homesteading Notice (http://www.denverurbanhomesteading.com/) of their FaceBook page being disabled by FaceBook over alleged copyright infringement.

Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: atherts on February 18, 2011, 07:44:30 AM
This is a good lesson for anyone doing business on the Internet. The public is volatile and immediate response is necessary, right or wrong. Silence, deleting responses or communication methods are not good form and not an option. Think ahead to possible reprecussions to legal actions. Have had a clear defense posted as soon as the first response hits.
This is still a new communication medium and the rules are still being written and in flux.

I too am disheartened about this but dont let ths break the movement. Shams and Charlatans abound to divide and conquer and attempt tp break the spirit of the movement
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: KYdoomer on February 18, 2011, 08:43:32 AM
Mark Twain summed it up best when he said:  "a man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way".

J
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: boboroshi on February 18, 2011, 09:28:45 AM
They may not have a leg to stand on. According to their trademark activity, (here is the link: http://tmportal.uspto.gov/external/portal/tow?SRCH=Y&isSubmitted=true&details=&SELECT=US+Serial+No&TEXT=77574809 (http://tmportal.uspto.gov/external/portal/tow?SRCH=Y&isSubmitted=true&details=&SELECT=US+Serial+No&TEXT=77574809)) their Urban Homestead application was disapproved once.
They signed a declaration that Urban Homestead was a distinctive trademark for at least 5 years. I don't think they can back that up.
See the declaration:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26331487@N06/5454759825# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26331487@N06/5454759825#)

Trademarks require that there be no prior art of it.
http://www.uspto.gov/smallbusiness/patents/filing.html (http://www.uspto.gov/smallbusiness/patents/filing.html)

If it's been used before they used it, they're basically out of luck.

And this is just quite disappointing. I had encouraged my sister (who lives in Pasadena) to buy from them. This kind of behavior is just greed centric.

Next here is a catalog from a different different company.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26331487@N06/5454759783/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26331487@N06/5454759783/#)

I think it shows that the De®vaes have not had exclusive or distinctive use of the trademark.
Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Serenity Gulch on February 18, 2011, 10:50:20 AM
Denver Urban Homesteading Notice (http://www.denverurbanhomesteading.com/) of their FaceBook page being disabled by FaceBook over alleged copyright infringement.

So what's this about the Dervaes Institute being incorporated as a church? I was aware that Jules has some pretty out-there religious beliefs (Google swordofjoshua.org, most of the page links are broken but you can still see them using the cache view) but this is the first I've heard of an Urban Homesteading Church. I wonder if the person making this claim is just confused about what a 501(c)3 organization is?
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: chrisdfw on February 18, 2011, 10:56:07 AM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26331487@N06/5454759825# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26331487@N06/5454759825#)

Looks to me like that perjury has been committed here, especially since the term has been in use before them and being used by others before they used it.

Someone who has had their web page or facebook page taken down needs to sue the cr@p out of them.

Where do I send my check. I've seen people do this before, once a term becomes popular someone tries to trademark and bully others from using it. Sorry, but you have to trademark and have exclusive use first, you don't get to come in after the fact and rip people off.

I am pissed off and feel sorry for everyone getting bullied.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: archer on February 18, 2011, 04:24:19 PM
So what's this about the De®vaes Institute being incorporated as a church? I was aware that Jules has some pretty out-there religious beliefs (Google swordofjoshua.org, most of the page links are broken but you can still see them using the cache view) but this is the first I've heard of an Urban Homesteading Church. I wonder if the person making this claim is just confused about what a 501(c)3 organization is?

Use archive.org to look up swordofjoshua.org
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: cohutt on February 18, 2011, 04:43:13 PM
They've done it.

We were surprised.

We don't like it.

We've vented about it.

So what.   

Time for us to get over it.

It will have absolutely no effect over anything I do or don't do in any part of my life in the future.   The same is true for most if not all of us. 

As members of this forum we are here because we are either wired to be or have awaken to be proactive thinkers.   Anything beyond our initial "What a bunch of shitheads"  is little more than overly reactive & dramatic indignation.

Why should we waste any more energy or thought on these people and what they have done to disappoint us?

Be done with them and move on.   

When you get down to the heart of the matter, do you really care that much? 

Really?


I don't. 
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 18, 2011, 04:46:20 PM
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5217/5456707665_6b1f52dd58.jpg)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: cohutt on February 18, 2011, 05:04:46 PM
lol I do think that is pretty funny nico
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: shadowalker_returns on February 18, 2011, 05:23:53 PM
To get a trademark or copyright you do have to create something that by its form is separate and apart from general usage. If not then one can trademark and copyright any turn of phrase such as "My House" as my brand and anytime anyone uses the term "My House" they will have to include a copyright/trademark notice or risk being sued... This is ludicrous (not the singer). It should not be to hard to break their trademark claim, furthermore the guy with the primary claim would probably be Ken Kern, Ragnar Benson or possibly Kurt Saxon as they used the term over thirty years ago. Ken Kern and his heirs would be my first choice. I understand wanting to protect you intellectual property and such but this is ridiculous. I guess they think no one else has ever read the early Mother Earth News, any of Ken Kern's books or Rob Roy' articles and books or the Have More Plan by the Robinson's (50 years new) or.. well you see my point. A phrase that has been in common use and that has at least two distinct meanings should not be held for private commercial or non-commercial use. The term "Urban Homestead" was used and in use long before the Durveyes became pop culture celebrities. A little research shows they were denied their initial filing. What a difference an appearance on Oprah can make! Just shows anybody can get a big Head once the pop culture-fame thing starts up.

Regards,
Shadowalker
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Amator on February 18, 2011, 05:28:41 PM
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5217/5456707665_6b1f52dd58.jpg)

That is awesome!  You should post it on the Take Back Urban Homesteading (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Take-Back-Urban-Home-steadings/167527713295518?ref=ts) Facebook page.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sporadic_E on February 18, 2011, 05:32:02 PM
I am going to the following words:

THE ®
AND ®
AN ®
MURMLE ® (up yours Robert Munch!)

Yeah, the following phrases are mine to!

FELL OFF THE TURNIP TRUCK ®
JESUS CHRIST ON A BICYCLE ®
SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP ® (no wait, the army can keep that one...)
PORKCHOPS ® (because who doesn't love porkchops!  You're bitter you didn't think of it!)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 18, 2011, 05:32:35 PM
Should say "one TRADEMARK at a time" not copyright.

But yeah, it's gorgeous.  And I agree with Amator.

When you get down to the heart of the matter, do you really care that much? 

Yes.

Quote
Really?

YES.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Cooter Brown on February 18, 2011, 05:53:08 PM
DRUNK AS COOTER BROWN ®
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 18, 2011, 06:02:23 PM
Fixed.

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5295/5457448888_a7873d7d23_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 18, 2011, 06:06:46 PM
now go forth and multiply.

PS - you are seriously my favorite graphic designer on the forum.  Your stuff always makes me laugh.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 18, 2011, 06:09:48 PM
now go forth and multiply.

PS - you are seriously my favorite graphic designer on the forum.  Your stuff always makes me laugh.

Thanks Sis!  ;D

And thanks cohutt and Amator!

I would post it on FaceBook, but they have that d@mned "You post it we own it" policy. Bugs me to no end... Granted they never went after "Team CoCo", but he's got a cable network behind him.  :D
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 18, 2011, 06:22:02 PM
Welll... You could post a link to it instead of actually posting it.  They cannot (and have no right to) own links.  If you're not on the Book, would you like me to do that for ya on the "Take Back Urban Homesteading" page?
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 18, 2011, 06:25:31 PM
Welll... You could post a link to it instead of actually posting it.  They cannot (and have no right to) own links.  If you're not on the Book, would you like me to do that for ya on the "Take Back Urban Homesteading" page?

If it were to somehow wind up like that, I wouldn't mind as long as folks weren't making cash on it and other legalese type things... OMG, I sound like a Dervaes!  :D
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 18, 2011, 06:26:11 PM
Hmmm... Maybe a better move would be to invite Jamie to become a member of TSP.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: jtcweb on February 18, 2011, 07:08:29 PM
Interesting I was able to find the phrase "Mixed Rural and Urban Homestead" as a article title published way back on Aug 20, 1875.  The article was in The Central Law Journal and deals with the legal and tax issues of having a homestead inside an incorporated town.

In May/June 1901 issue of The American Law Review the differences in the law between the "rural homestead" and the "urban homestead" is explained.

There is also a dissertation published in 1996 about "Urban Homesteads" in the west and how they go back to FDR's New Deal in 1933.  You can view the citation and abstract of this dissertation at http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=739543751&Fmt=2&RQT=309&VName=PQD (http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=739543751&Fmt=2&RQT=309&VName=PQD)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Mr. Bill on February 18, 2011, 08:21:45 PM
Fixed.

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5295/5457448888_a7873d7d23_z.jpg)

My wife looked at that partially obscured ® at upper right, and thought it was a hammer and sickle. :D

That is seriously great work, Nicodemus!

Interesting I was able to find the phrase "Mixed Rural and Urban Homestead" as a article title published way back on Aug 20, 1875. ...

Good research!  Thanks.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 18, 2011, 08:26:06 PM
Thanks Mr. Bill!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 18, 2011, 08:33:01 PM
Interesting I was able to find the phrase "Mixed Rural and Urban Homestead" as a article title published way back on Aug 20, 1875.  The article was in The Central Law Journal and deals with the legal and tax issues of having a homestead inside an incorporated town.

In May/June 1901 issue of The American Law Review the differences in the law between the "rural homestead" and the "urban homestead" is explained.

There is also a dissertation published in 1996 about "Urban Homesteads" in the west and how they go back to FDR's New Deal in 1933.  You can view the citation and abstract of this dissertation at http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=739543751&Fmt=2&RQT=309&VName=PQD (http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=739543751&Fmt=2&RQT=309&VName=PQD)

That's some great info jtcweb. When you get a chance, please stop by the The Front Porch>Intro Thread and Introduce yourself to the forums.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 18, 2011, 09:13:36 PM
Was thinking about this, and for you Dr. Horrible fans, do you remember when he kills Penny?  That's what the P2F folks remind me of right now.

For those of you who have no idea... here's a little spoiler.

Dr. Horrible has two aims in life - to be accepted into the ELOE (Evil League Of Evil - headed by Bad Horse, the thoroughbred of sin) and to make Penny fall in love with him.  At first, the ELoE is more important, but Penny becomes the more important of the two goals eventually.  So when Dr. Horrible goes to kill Penny's annoying boyfriend (Captain Hammer!), he accidentally gets Penny killed instead.  He's accepted into the ELoE, but he loses what kept him going in the first place.

P2F killed their Penny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaXBu5unFCQ# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaXBu5unFCQ#)

Here lies everything.
The world I wanted, at my feet.
My victory's complete.
So hail to the king...
Arise and see.

So your world's benign?
So you think justice has a voice?
And we all have a choice?
Now your world is mine
And I am fine...

Now the nightmare's real
Now Dr. Horrible is here
To make you quake with fear
To make the whole world kneel.
And I won't feel....
A thing.

Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 18, 2011, 09:18:05 PM
I loved Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog, and I think that you're right on with that comparison/analogy, Sis.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 18, 2011, 09:21:04 PM
I loved Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog, and I think that you're right on with that comparison/analogy, Sis.

I loved it too (it's on Netflix instant view now, btw :D ).  And thanks.  Totally unrelated, but I think dr. horrible's song, "Slipping" is one of the best modern social awareness songs ever written.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Mr. Bill on February 18, 2011, 09:51:51 PM
A bit of news: According to BoingBoing (http://www.boingboing.net/2011/02/18/eff-is-representing.html), the Electronic Frontier Foundation is representing Kelly Coyne and Erik Knutzen in their dispute vs the Dervaes over the title of their "Urban Homesteading" book.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: nkawtg on February 18, 2011, 11:07:06 PM
I'm glad the EFF is taking on their case, Kelly Coyne and Erik Knutzen, did nothing wrong.
They began work on their book in the spring of 2007 and published in 2008.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: chrisdfw on February 18, 2011, 11:39:30 PM
A bit of news: According to BoingBoing (http://www.boingboing.net/2011/02/18/eff-is-representing.html), the Electronic Frontier Foundation is representing Kelly Coyne and Erik Knutzen in their dispute vs the De®vaes over the title of their "Urban Homesteading" book.


That is great news, the best thing when confronted by a bully is to punch them in the face. Figuratively of course...
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: thezoo on February 19, 2011, 02:41:49 AM
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5217/5456707665_6b1f52dd58.jpg)
  That awesome, your good at graffic arts man :happydance:
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 19, 2011, 05:57:15 AM
A bit of news: According to BoingBoing (http://www.boingboing.net/2011/02/18/eff-is-representing.html), the Electronic Frontier Foundation is representing Kelly Coyne and Erik Knutzen in their dispute vs the De®vaes over the title of their "Urban Homesteading" book.

Awesome! I like this group founded on the concept of "[battling] for digital freedom in the courts". Coyne, Knutzen and their publisher sell electronic versions of the book and web based bookstores, but I feel like the EFF is kind of defending old school paper print against digital encroachment as well.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 19, 2011, 05:57:46 AM
  That awesome, your good at graffic arts man :happydance:

Thanks, thezoo!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Trash on February 19, 2011, 09:18:01 AM
I too am still quite ticked off a tthe BS. They claim to be a non-profit yet they have all the sideline businesses and if you check thier website they are adding more sidelines. So not only are they f'n with trademarks. They are prob f'n the IRS being a nonprofit.. hmmm
Beginning to see SCAM.. Much like the GREEN of Begley a few years ago..

Trash.
BTW it hit close to home with the Denver Urban Homesteaders Gorup gettin shut down.. Trash is pissed
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Dawgus on February 20, 2011, 11:25:52 AM
 Like I said in an earlier post in this thread, they have not only angered me, but also inspired me. 2011lbs for 2011. They aren't that impressive anymore...
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: OKGranny on February 20, 2011, 11:28:24 AM
This is going to be a fun summer, watching the pounds from Dawgus' garden add up.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 20, 2011, 11:53:08 AM
That's great Dawgus. Keep us informed on your progress!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Morning Sunshine on February 20, 2011, 12:08:33 PM
Like I said in an earlier post in this thread, they have not only angered me, but also inspired me. 2011lbs for 2011. They aren't that impressive anymore...

can you count egg weight in that number?  I might try to measure ours this year too.


maybe not.  my gardening progress thus far is delight that SOMETHING actually gave us fruit and I have not killed everything with my black thumb.  weigh-in might just depress me.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TexDaddy on February 20, 2011, 12:13:43 PM
can you count egg weight in that number?...
I would. While not 'produce' per se, it is produce of your homestead.

I am not up to the point where I weigh in. I also might become depressed at this point, although those watermelons last year were very good and would have gotten the weight up pretty well. Faster than the lettuce anyway.  :D
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Dawgus on February 20, 2011, 12:17:55 PM
@ Morning Sunshine- We count eggs, chicken, fruits, and vegetables....anything that is grown, raised,and butchered here at home. I don't count apple we get from next door, or peaches from my friends place. Last year was just under 1100lbs total from our one acre. 910 more to go this year!  ;D
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sporadic_E on February 20, 2011, 01:11:20 PM
I know nobody cares but it would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall when the De®vaes family had a sit down to come to this decision. It simply goes to show that from a business point of view, every choice you make has ramifications
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: hanzel on February 20, 2011, 08:23:20 PM
I think I found a loophole  (but need an atty Tx. atty to confirm )

Reading over what they claim is there copyright I noticed that all the terms are capitalized.  When reading over Texas property laws, http://www.law.ttu.edu/lawlibrary/library/research/bapcpa_library/texas-property-code.htm (http://www.law.ttu.edu/lawlibrary/library/research/bapcpa_library/texas-property-code.htm)

"§ 41.005. VOLUNTARY DESIGNATION OF HOMESTEAD

(a) If a rural homestead of a family is part of one or more parcels containing a total of more than 200 acres, the head of the family and, if married, that person's spouse may voluntarily designate not more than 200 acres of the property as the homestead. If a rural homestead of a single adult person, not otherwise entitled to a homestead, is part of one or more parcels containing a total of more than 100 acres, the person may voluntarily designate not more than 100 acres of the property as the homestead.

(b) If an urban homestead of a family, or an urban homestead of a single adult person not otherwise entitled to a homestead, is part of one or more contiguous lots containing a total of more than 10 acres, the head of the family and, if married, that person's spouse or the single adult person, as applicable, may voluntarily designate not more than 10 acres of the property as the homestead. "

or read over the TX Affidavit of Urban Homestead and Designation of Homestead or "CREDITOR CLAIMS IN PROBATE, HOMESTEAD, EXEMPT PROPERTY, ALLOWANCES, SALES OF PROBATE PROPERTY AND LIABILITY OF PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE FOR TAXES".  I can keep going since it appears the words appear a lot in Texas Law and Texas history

Texas law does not capitalize the whole words. So .... if I do not capitalize the complete words as in their cease and desist, then I am only referring to Texas law and not their claim to a copyright.  I think a state law counters any copyright claim.

To paraphrase Davy Crockett, You may all go to Hell, I am in Texas !

( they may also want to read over Federal law also as in, 24 CFR 30.30 - Urban Homestead violations and send Obama a copy of their cease and desist also )

Since they are in California, they should have research the Compac computer company and its claim against Compaq Computer Company and see how sometimes a claim can backfire on you.

Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Woody Borghini on February 20, 2011, 08:54:46 PM
Hey. How about this?:

I am not an advocate for anyone trademarking common words. And I tend to be along the lines of people on this forum. But I finally took the 3 minutes to read the letter that Mr. Durvaes wrote, at the page linked below, and I have to ask for some more clarity on the anti-Durvaes movement.
It seems to me that the gist of the letter is to ask people to give them due credit when referencing their work: "When using a phrase listed above to refer to the work of the Dervaes Institute, proper trademark usage should include. . ."

Please let me know if I am missing something.
The way I see it: unless we are all getting sued over this, it is a divide in our community that is not worth the discord it causes. It is the wrong fight to pick. Admittedly, I do know very little about the family and their "institution" or whatever. But it seems like they are better in our corner, than being shut down by the very people who share their core ideals.

I'm not opposed to being wrong. Please help me to understand if my interpretation is not accurate.

Thanks!
Peace,
Woody

http://urbanhomestead.org/journal/2011/02/16/fyi-urban-homestead-trademark-matter/ (http://urbanhomestead.org/journal/2011/02/16/fyi-urban-homestead-trademark-matter/)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 20, 2011, 09:16:46 PM
If you read the whole thing it suggests that the term "Urban Homestead" should not be used UNLESS you are talking about the De®vaes Institute and its work. And when used to talk about the work of the Dervaes Institute they must be credited.

It's made to sound fluffy but it's still a Cease and Desist letter.

From the notice:
"If your use of one of these phrases is not to specifically identify products or services from the De®vaes Institute, then it would be proper to use generic terms to replace the registered trademark you are using. For example, when discussing general homesteading or other people’s projects, they should be referred to using terms such as ‘modern homesteading,’ ‘urban sustainability projects,’ or similar descriptions." emphasis added by me
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: LvsChant on February 20, 2011, 09:48:56 PM
Woody,

I do agree that we really don't need to waste our energy on something like this... far better to get along with our own preps and not worry about this issue overmuch. However, there is a lot of discussion about how the Dervaes family have acted.

There seems to be no doubt that they are taking an active approach in trying to stop anyone from using their registered trademarks unless it is 1) used to refer to their activities and 2) giving them credit for the registered trademark. (see Nic's post above)

If the terms they had laid claim to were all specifically related to their business, no one would probably have much to say about it. I think the big issue is their claim to the particular phrases: "Urban Homestead" and "Urban Homesteading", which have been used by countless individuals over the course of many years, in blogs, in forums, in books, in news reporting...

Several individuals and groups have been harmed already by actions taken by the Dervaes family in this situation. Because of them, forums that used those terms have been shut down. Books using those terms have been attacked and loss of sales have no doubt resulted. If they registered the trademark and allowed any well-meaning person to use it (as Jack mentioned in his podcast) in order to protect it for everyone, they would have been lauded for their actions. Unfortunately, that isn't the route they have taken...
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TexDaddy on February 20, 2011, 09:58:32 PM
Good one hanzel. I can't wait until they send the State of Texas a cease and desist letter. I would love to see the reaction to that.

...To paraphrase Davy Crockett, You may all go to Hell, I am in Texas !...
Good ol' Davy. Had a way with words.  ;)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Amator on February 20, 2011, 09:58:58 PM
+1 on everything LVS is saying.

Also, you have to keep in mind that the Dervaes' contacted Facebook and had the FB pages removed of the 16 people/groups they sent their C&D letter to.  This is not "I just want to protect my niche" this is an offensive action.  Also many people are upset because they are trying to lock down common terms used by hundreds of people to describe their lifestyle.  

They fought the patent & trademark office for years on these trademarks...they had to appeal the denials of trademark several times before it was finally granted.  Then they decided to go after a few small-timers.  Well, the homestead/prepper/etc community is small enough that we can punish them severely and we are.  
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Woody Borghini on February 20, 2011, 10:00:16 PM
Okay. I get it.

I actually didn't read thoroughly the paragraph Nic referenced. I definitely don't agree with this type of crap. And I can see how people have probably already been harmed by this.

While I don't like to get wrapped up in trivial battles/arguments, I actually share the frustration in this fiasco.

Lemme ask you this: is there any chance still that this could be changed? Is it in deliberation, or something? Or is it said and done, and now we can just fume about it?

Thanks guys,
Woody
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Amator on February 20, 2011, 11:04:44 PM
Lemme ask you this: is there any chance still that this could be changed? Is it in deliberation, or something? Or is it said and done, and now we can just fume about it?


Enough people are pissed off enough about this that I definitely think they will try to get the trademark yanked.

Or as far as the Dervaes' themselves cancelling the trademark?  I'm sure it would help, but right now their name is mud and I don't think that would do a whole lot.  Acting as you should only while under public scrutiny does not an ethical person make.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sweethearts Mom on February 21, 2011, 04:58:15 AM
My biggest hope here is that all of the local places that purchase their home grown products cease. Cut the cord now. Anyone who purchases anything from them cease. Cut off the flow of any income from their little projects.

I also would love to talk to their neighbors. I wonder if they hear and see stuff that you don't see in their public image.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: hanzel on February 21, 2011, 06:50:33 AM
Here is an interesting question.  How do you "trademark" a "copyright" name ?

The term "urban homestead" is copyrighted

http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?v1=2&ti=1,2&Search_Arg=urban%20homestead&Search_Code=FT*&CNT=25&PID=BBQ1ubXdnCmSxrRvBh-yJM4hWL&SEQ=20110221083841&SID=2 (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?v1=2&ti=1,2&Search_Arg=urban%20homestead&Search_Code=FT*&CNT=25&PID=BBQ1ubXdnCmSxrRvBh-yJM4hWL&SEQ=20110221083841&SID=2)  This link will expire so you may need to do a new search.

here is the trademark information

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4008:pfta2d.2.1 (http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4008:pfta2d.2.1)

the claim being ..

IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Educational services, namely, conducting informal programs in the fields of sustainable living, organic foods and gardening, homesteading, the environment, and conservation, using on-line activities and interactive exhibits; entertainment services, namely, providing a web site featuring photographs and audio and video recordings featuring instruction and current events reporting on sustainable living, organic foods and gardening, the environment, and conservation; on-line journals, namely, blogs featuring the subjects of sustainable living, organic foods and gardening, the environment, and conservation. FIRST USE: 20021200. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20030100

Looks like there are making a bigger claim then I first thought.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Mr. Bill on February 21, 2011, 07:11:19 AM
Here is an interesting question.  How do you "trademark" a "copyright" name ?

The term "urban homestead" is copyrighted

No, I believe that's the title of a text of some sort (book or article) that's copyrighted.  You can't generally claim copyright on 2 words -- it has to be a creative work of some sort.  But this does provide one more bit of evidence that the term was in wide use before the Dervaes' trademark application.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: kenser321 on February 21, 2011, 07:33:26 AM
A reply e-mail from Kelly Coyne. Thought everyone might want to read.


Dear Mr. (My Name),

We have been in touch with Mr. Spirko, and have told him we'd love to be on his show. We just have to work out the details.

Thank you so much for purchasing our book. Mr. Spirko's campaign in support of it was a complete surprise to us, and a very pleasant "side effect" of this controversy.

You can believe that we and our publisher will be fighting those tradmarks--for everyone's sake.

All best

Kelly Coyne
 
 



Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Amator on February 21, 2011, 07:55:23 AM
Not my image, but I found it fitting.

(http://captaingrooviss.co.uk/images/Wresistance.jpg)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Dawgus on February 21, 2011, 09:24:15 AM
Amator- Someone on my FB posted that a few hours ago. It's already my new profile pic there. I'm thinking about using it here, but I'm willing to bet there will be quite a few.

 I wanna have this made into a flag to fly in my garden!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 21, 2011, 09:52:41 AM
A reply e-mail from Kelly Coyne. Thought everyone might want to read.

Dear Mr. (My Name),

We have been in touch with Mr. Spirko, and have told him we'd love to be on his show. We just have to work out the details.

Thank you so much for purchasing our book. Mr. Spirko's campaign in support of it was a complete surprise to us, and a very pleasant "side effect" of this controversy.

You can believe that we and our publisher will be fighting those tradmarks--for everyone's sake.

All best

Kelly Coyne

Awesome. Thanks for the heads up, kenser!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 21, 2011, 09:53:10 AM
Not my image, but I found it fitting.

(http://captaingrooviss.co.uk/images/Wresistance.jpg)

Great image!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: hanzel on February 21, 2011, 04:02:50 PM
Little more info for those who want it:

Application Number    77574809
Applicant    Dervaes Institute

ERIK M. PELTON ERIK M. PELTON & ASSOCIATES, PLLC
PO BOX 100637
ARLINGTON, VA 22210-3637
UNITED STATES
uspto@tm4smallbiz.com
Applied for Mark    URBAN HOMESTEAD
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: NotAGrasshopper on February 21, 2011, 04:07:10 PM
Note that they claim to have been using the mark (Urban Homestead) in interstate commerce since 01/2003.   
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 21, 2011, 04:13:33 PM
Not my image, but I found it fitting.

(http://captaingrooviss.co.uk/images/Wresistance.jpg)

Amator,

"Resistance Is Fertile" is one of the TSP slogans we've been using for a year or more (on T-shirts in our zazzle store).  I'm gonna have to see about purchasing that art.  It's AWESOME!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Mr. Bill on February 21, 2011, 07:28:48 PM
Announcement form the EFF:

Riding the Fences of the “Urban Homestead”: Trademark Complaints and Misinformation Lead to Improper Takedowns (http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/02/riding-fences-urban-homestead-trademark-complaints)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Lunk on February 21, 2011, 07:31:28 PM
I found a link to Change.org for the petition to cancel the trademarks.

http://www.change.org/petitions/cancel-trademarks-on-urban-homestead-and-urban-homesteading (http://www.change.org/petitions/cancel-trademarks-on-urban-homestead-and-urban-homesteading)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Amator on February 21, 2011, 07:45:04 PM
Amator,

"Resistance Is Fertile" is one of the TSP slogans we've been using for a year or more (on T-shirts in our zazzle store).  I'm gonna have to see about purchasing that art.  It's AWESOME!

It is pretty good.  I'd love to see if you were able to license it for use here...it looks like it's only available in tshirt from in the UK. 

Speaking of licensing shirt designs...with the thousands of people on the Take Back Urban Homesteading Facebook group maybe you and Nicodemus should get together and make a shirt with his design?
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 21, 2011, 08:26:48 PM
It is pretty good.  I'd love to see if you were able to license it for use here...it looks like it's only available in tshirt from in the UK.  

Speaking of licensing shirt designs...with the thousands of people on the Take Back Urban Homesteading Facebook group maybe you and Nicodemus should get together and make a shirt with his design?

Yeah, I emailed them with a request to purchase a non-exclusive license to be able to sell the shirts here in our shop.  I don't want or need the monopoly on them, but I love the design and it's right up our alley.

Edit:  As for Nic's art.  Ooooooooh, that's a REALLY interesting idea.  Will have to talk to Nic about it.  He might not be terribly keen on the idea, due to licensing issues (I don't know how Zazzle treats artists).
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: NotAGrasshopper on February 21, 2011, 08:59:38 PM
SW - Zazzle looks like they treat artists pretty well. They charge a flat price per product and 100% of any additional royalty goes to the artist. Maybe less credit card fees. I'm working with a Zazzle artist right now...
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 21, 2011, 09:59:34 PM
SW - Zazzle looks like they treat artists pretty well. They charge a flat price per product and 100% of any additional royalty goes to the artist. Maybe less credit card fees. I'm working with a Zazzle artist right now...

Fantastic.  Then I suppose it's up to Nic whether or not he allows us to sell his art on t-shirts at Zazzle.

That's not an easy choice to make, so I'll let him approach me if he decides he wants to do it.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Dawgus on February 22, 2011, 04:41:28 AM
In case anyone hasn't seen it yet, EFF sent their own cease and desist letter.

https://www.eff.org/files/LTTDervaes.pdf (https://www.eff.org/files/LTTDervaes.pdf)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: langloisandy on February 22, 2011, 05:59:20 AM
So...uh.... should I get a URL/Trademark on Urbane Homestead ???

When the C&D letter comes, tell them that they are not Urbane enough to even talk with me let alone boss me around?

;)

Andy
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: NotAGrasshopper on February 22, 2011, 06:59:12 AM
Oh my, it looks like EFF has Dervaes by the nuts.  Seems like the DMCA takedown notices were improper as they can only be used to stop copyright infringement, not alleged trademark infringement.  Dervaes is liable for damages for the improper notices.  This is gonna be good.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 22, 2011, 07:08:10 AM
Fantastic.  Then I suppose it's up to Nic whether or not he allows us to sell his art on t-shirts at Zazzle.

That's not an easy choice to make, so I'll let him approach me if he decides he wants to do it.

Approached.  :D
I'm sure we could work something out, Sis.

I know very little about Zazzle, but I have perused the site and forums previously and didn't see any artist complaints.

The design might need a little bit of a change to get it up to an understandable message. We pretty much all get it because it's tied to this particular thread, but it's kind of an inside joke and I don't know what a larger audience would think. I'd also consider taking "B*tch" off of it to make it a little more palatable.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: donaldj on February 22, 2011, 10:27:49 AM
In case anyone hasn't seen it yet, EFF sent their own cease and desist letter.

https://www.eff.org/files/LTTDervaes.pdf (https://www.eff.org/files/LTTDervaes.pdf)

This is WIN and I encourage everyone to read it.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 22, 2011, 10:38:47 AM
Nice!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: archer on February 22, 2011, 10:44:15 AM
Nice, looks like the Dervaes are going to be in a world of shit soon...
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TexDaddy on February 22, 2011, 11:56:50 AM
This is WIN and I encourage everyone to read it.
I agree. I haven't enjoyed reading anything that much in awhile. (Especially, a letter written by a lawyer.  :D )

Nice, looks like the De®vaes are going to be in a world of shit soon...
What goes around, comes around. They deserve it.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: hanzel on February 22, 2011, 12:32:06 PM
I agree. I haven't enjoyed reading anything that much in awhile. (Especially, a letter written by a lawyer.  :D )
What goes around, comes around. They deserve it.

I agree, it is good reading, however, now what will I do with my "De®vaes Family did not invent urban homesteading" trademark ?  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Morning Sunshine on February 22, 2011, 12:35:21 PM
In case anyone hasn't seen it yet, EFF sent their own cease and desist letter.

https://www.eff.org/files/LTTDervaes.pdf (https://www.eff.org/files/LTTDervaes.pdf)

sweee-eeet!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Greywolf27 on February 22, 2011, 02:07:12 PM
In case anyone hasn't seen it yet, EFF sent their own cease and desist letter.

https://www.eff.org/files/LTTDervaes.pdf (https://www.eff.org/files/LTTDervaes.pdf)

Wow... I guess ego can only take you so far...
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 22, 2011, 02:22:38 PM
In case anyone hasn't seen it yet, EFF sent their own cease and desist letter.

https://www.eff.org/files/LTTDervaes.pdf (https://www.eff.org/files/LTTDervaes.pdf)

Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!  :D

Stick that in your garden and grow it, Jules! 

I hope they comply immediately.  I really do.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: chrisdfw on February 22, 2011, 02:24:59 PM
Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!  :D

Stick that in your garden and grow it, Jules! 

I hope they comply immediately.  I really do.

Is your sensitive side coming out?

You're nicer than me, I hope they get sued into oblivion, I don't like bullies.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 22, 2011, 02:33:05 PM
Is your sensitive side coming out?

You're nicer than me, I hope they get sued into oblivion, I don't like bullies.

The reason I hope they comply immediately has nothing to do with my hope for mercy on their behalf.  ;)  I want folks who are suffering due to the Dervaes' C&D letters to stop suffering immediately.  If this is drawn into a legal battle, the Dervaeses will be forced (even if it's a self-imposed force) to be even more stubborn about hurting the urban homesteading movement and the people involved.  Things will become darker before they become brighter if we go down that path.

If they refuse to comply, then yeah, I hope they are sued into oblivion as well.  I hope they lose everything they've worked for, and that their business suffers mortal wounds (if it hasn't already).

The only issue I have going forward is that when you go to war, there is collateral damage.  I'm not in the path, and won't be a part of that collateral damage, but I know folks who are and who will be.  I don't want anybody else's business to suffer any more than it already has due to these jerks waving their smelly asses in the air.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: archer on February 22, 2011, 02:34:04 PM
Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!  :D

Stick that in your garden and grow it, Jules!  

I hope they comply immediately.  I really do.

I hope they fight it, then loose, and have to pay lots of $ for fines/fees....
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: archer on February 22, 2011, 02:35:26 PM
The reason I hope they comply immediately has nothing to do with my hope for mercy on their behalf.  ;)  I want folks who are suffering due to the De®vaes' C&D letters to stop suffering immediately.  If this is drawn into a legal battle, the Dervaeses will be forced (even if it's a self-imposed force) to be even more stubborn about hurting the urban homesteading movement and the people involved.  Things will become darker before they become brighter if we go down that path.

If they refuse to comply, then yeah, I hope they are sued into oblivion as well.  I hope they lose everything they've worked for, and that their business suffers mortal wounds (if it hasn't already).

The only issue I have going forward is that when you go to war, there is collateral damage.  I'm not in the path, and won't be a part of that collateral damage, but I know folks who are and who will be.  I don't want anybody else's business to suffer any more than it already has due to these jerks waving their smelly asses in the air.

Very good points SisW... The collateral damage is growing. It needs to end.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: fritz_monroe on February 22, 2011, 02:37:09 PM
Is your sensitive side coming out?

You're nicer than me, I hope they get sued into oblivion, I don't like bullies.
Me too.  I hate bullies too, but I also hate hypocrites, they are both.  I hope all this negative karma that they are heaping upon the rest of the urban homesteaders (oh God, I typed those words) back to bite them in the ass.  

But Sis has a great point.  Settling it quickly will be the least painful for all the small businesses that have been hurt.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 22, 2011, 02:43:24 PM
The reason I hope they comply immediately has nothing to do with my hope for mercy on their behalf.  ;)  I want folks who are suffering due to the De®vaes' C&D letters to stop suffering immediately.  If this is drawn into a legal battle, the Dervaeses will be forced (even if it's a self-imposed force) to be even more stubborn about hurting the urban homesteading movement and the people involved.  Things will become darker before they become brighter if we go down that path.

If they refuse to comply, then yeah, I hope they are sued into oblivion as well.  I hope they lose everything they've worked for, and that their business suffers mortal wounds (if it hasn't already).

The only issue I have going forward is that when you go to war, there is collateral damage.  I'm not in the path, and won't be a part of that collateral damage, but I know folks who are and who will be.  I don't want anybody else's business to suffer any more than it already has due to these jerks waving their smelly asses in the air.

Consider my hope for mercy as thus:

This is just me, sitting on my mount, at the top of a hill, watching the enemy charge when they're obviously outnumbered and do not have the high ground. I look out on the field and I see friends and family and those I've fought with and worked for for the last two years, and I know that some of them (not many, but even one is too many) will suffer and ultimately die.  So I'm sitting here staring at the enemy, chanting, "turn around, turn around, turn around, turn around.  Damn you, why don't you retreat?"

I hate destruction.  I hate war.  I'll destroy something, or participate in war, if I see it as an absolute necessity, but it's never my aim, and I do not take pride in it any more than a respectful hunter would take pride in putting down a mad dog who has hunted with him in the past.  It's a distasteful thing, regardless of how necessary it is for the protection of the rest of our pack and for our own protection as well.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TexDaddy on February 22, 2011, 03:03:13 PM
Sis, I mostly totally agree with you, except on one minor point. This is not a rabid dog being put down. The condition is in no way the animal's fault. This was a premeditated, intentional immoral act by people who should have known better.

Travis was very sad and hurt when he had to shoot Ol' Yeller. He had no problem killing the ones who raided his family's homestead and took him, his little brother and their friend hostage. (from Savage Sam, son of Ol' Yeller.)

Collateral damage is always very sad. Any collateral damage must be laid at the feet of this family.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Roswell on February 22, 2011, 03:39:31 PM
I like to use huomorous images to convey my point as it lightens the mood.  :D
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le2f2r9q2C1qdt640.jpg)

Payback is a bitch!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 22, 2011, 06:16:28 PM
Sis, I mostly totally agree with you, except on one minor point. This is not a rabid dog being put down. The condition is in no way the animal's fault. This was a premeditated, intentional immoral act by people who should have known better.

Travis was very sad and hurt when he had to shoot Ol' Yeller. He had no problem killing the ones who raided his family's homestead and took him, his little brother and their friend hostage. (from Savage Sam, son of Ol' Yeller.)

Collateral damage is always very sad. Any collateral damage must be laid at the feet of this family.

I thought about rabies not being the fault of the animal when I wrote it, but I couldn't think of a more appropriate metaphor.  They're acting completely mad (as in crazy/insane) and I still don't "get it".  It's like there's something wrong with their collective brains.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TexDaddy on February 22, 2011, 06:28:17 PM
...They're acting completely mad (as in crazy/insane) and I still don't "get it".  It's like there's something wrong with their collective brains.
Now this, I totally agree with.

I do hope they backdown. And, back to your military analogy, if not, no quarter.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: joeinwv on February 22, 2011, 06:31:53 PM
I thought about rabies not being the fault of the animal when I wrote it, but I couldn't think of a more appropriate metaphor.  They're acting completely mad (as in crazy/insane) and I still don't "get it".  It's like there's something wrong with their collective brains.
This may be a weird comparison, but it may apply. I admit to watching American Chopper on Discovery. This is the Teutul family, with Paul Sr & Jr's rocky relationship being the focus. Over time this devolved and now they have separate companies and are suing one another.

A great example of a couple blue collar guys who built up a company from nothing into a multimillion dollar empire. At which point, greed and avarice overcame common sense. Everyone thinks they are right and a little money becomes more important than family.

Back to the topic at hand, they may truly think they have a legitimate and legally defensible position. So they really feel that their intellectual property is being stolen. With those feelings involved, logic goes out the window.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 22, 2011, 06:52:20 PM
I just read in the San Francisco chronicle that they don't even have a lawyer.  So the whole, "maybe they got bad legal advice" excuse just went out the window.  They did this without lawyering up.  On their own.  No advice.

<shaking my head in disgust>
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 22, 2011, 06:56:24 PM
This may be a weird comparison, but it may apply. I admit to watching American Chopper on Discovery. This is the Teutul family, with Paul Sr & Jr's rocky relationship being the focus. Over time this devolved and now they have separate companies and are suing one another.

That's a pretty good comparison. It's a shame to watch things devolve as they did on "American Chopper".

There is some kind of mental change that occurs when so many people applaud a person's every move on a constant basis. It seems to infer some kind of detached mindset where the individual gets a sense that they can do no wrong and so there is no prolonged period of introspection and inspection of a move that will be made. When the inevitable fall occurs the individual clings to a delusional self righteous sense of correctness. Unfortunately, a lot of the people around them, who originally applauded them, only exacerbate the situation by refusing to see the error and fail to offer wise counsel. Not that their counsel would be headed of course.

I think it's also a little bit of the reason people like to see the overconfident kicked in the pants sometimes.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: fritz_monroe on February 22, 2011, 07:01:52 PM
I just read in the San Francisco chronicle that they don't even have a lawyer.  So the whole, "maybe they got bad legal advice" excuse just went out the window.  They did this without lawyering up.  On their own.  No advice.

<shaking my head in disgust>
Really???  Wow!  Just amazing what some people do.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TexDaddy on February 22, 2011, 07:05:59 PM
...So they really feel that their intellectual property is being stolen. With those feelings involved, logic goes out the window.
Well, they are apparently deluded. As brought to our attention by hanzel, the term is part of Texas state law. The Texas Property Code Statutes, Chapter 41.005 hanzel refers us to, where the term urban homestead appears, became effective 08/31/1987 according to the link provided and last amended effective 01/01/2000. Since these people didn't even buy the home they stead until 1998, it is hard to believe they can claim 'intellectual property.'

I just read in the San Francisco chronicle that they don't even have a lawyer.  So the whole, "maybe they got bad legal advice" excuse just went out the window.  They did this without lawyering up.  On their own.  No advice.

<shaking my head in disgust>
So, they went stupid all by themselves, without legal help. Truly amazing. <also shaking my head in disgust>
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 22, 2011, 07:07:48 PM
We'll see how far this goes or will continue if they lawyer up.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Mr. Bill on February 22, 2011, 07:38:44 PM
I just read in the San Francisco chronicle that they don't even have a lawyer.  So the whole, "maybe they got bad legal advice" excuse just went out the window.  They did this without lawyering up.  On their own.  No advice.

<shaking my head in disgust>

Well, they had a sorta-lawyer when they made the application, according to what hanzel dug up and posted above:

Applicant    De®vaes Institute

ERIK M. PELTON ERIK M. PELTON & ASSOCIATES, PLLC
PO BOX 100637
ARLINGTON, VA 22210-3637
UNITED STATES
uspto@tm4smallbiz.com
Applied for Mark    URBAN HOMESTEAD

From their website:

Quote
WELCOME TO tm4smallbiz.com

Presented by trademark lawyer Erik M. Pelton, tm4smallbiz.com is your complete trademark resource.  Mr. Pelton launched this site in 1999 to help small businesses protect and profit from their trademarks. ...
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Darkwinter on February 22, 2011, 07:42:27 PM
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TexDaddy on February 22, 2011, 07:44:48 PM
I checked Pelton's site. Looks like an internet lawyer, and since he is in Virginia, seems possible they never actually met with him, but...who knows?
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: NotAGrasshopper on February 22, 2011, 07:46:46 PM
@TexDaddy:  I thought about that (Texas law) myself but it's important to remember that trademark claims apply to specific classes of goods and services, in their case educational services. Texas law doesn't use the term in that context and doesn't constitute prior use for these purposes.

That said, they'll lose for the reasons the EFF lawyer mentioned.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 22, 2011, 07:59:14 PM
Well, they had a sorta-lawyer when they made the application, according to what hanzel dug up and posted above:

I wonder if he has a setup kinda like Legal Zoom where you don't actually have to lawyer up in order to file legal documents.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TexDaddy on February 22, 2011, 08:01:13 PM
@TexDaddy:  I thought about that (Texas law) myself but it's important to remember that trademark claims apply to specific classes of goods and services, in their case educational services. Texas law doesn't use the term in that context and doesn't constitute prior use for these purposes.

That said, they'll lose for the reasons the EFF lawyer mentioned.
Oh, I do agree on both your points. I wasn't referring to prior use, though. I may be wrong, but to me 'intellectual property' is a term that applies to something you 'thunk up on your own, by your ownself.'
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Roswell on February 22, 2011, 08:26:20 PM
I wonder if he has a setup kinda like Legal Zoom where you don't actually have to lawyer up in order to file legal documents.
Yup.  It looks like they probably filled out an online form and that guy printed it out on his letter head.
http://www.tm4smallbiz.com/tm_appl_contact.shtml (http://www.tm4smallbiz.com/tm_appl_contact.shtml)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: chrisdfw on February 22, 2011, 08:35:27 PM
I just read in the San Francisco chronicle that they don't even have a lawyer.  So the whole, "maybe they got bad legal advice" excuse just went out the window.  They did this without lawyering up.  On their own.  No advice.

<shaking my head in disgust>

So they acted as their own legal counsel... and had fools for clients.

Its one thing to get a little greedy and try to muscle out others, which I hate about the way trademark and copyright law is used
But a whole different level of stupid when you don't have a prayer in hell of succeeding, which a proper lawyer would have advised.
They get what they deserve. I am guessing their business is ruined. OOPS.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: NotAGrasshopper on February 22, 2011, 09:00:04 PM
@TexDaddy: thunk up yourself isn't required. What is required is using it in commerce (I.e., branding goods or services with the mark). Stupidest thing I never did:  start a shipping company called "fedex" while Federal Express customers called them that but before they adopted the name.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Morning Sunshine on February 22, 2011, 09:00:21 PM
I just read in the San Francisco chronicle that they don't even have a lawyer.  So the whole, "maybe they got bad legal advice" excuse just went out the window.  They did this without lawyering up.  On their own.  No advice.

<shaking my head in disgust>

you have a link to that story?  I would be interested in reading it

nm - http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/green/detail?entry_id=83591 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/green/detail?entry_id=83591)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 22, 2011, 09:17:01 PM
This is reminiscent of Tracy Jordan's illegitimate son Donald on "30 Rock" who keeps on thinking up and opening businesses with names that other companies use...

He names restaurant that serves the basics that everyone needs, "Staples".

He wants to name a phone service you can call to find out about air quality across the US, "American Airlines".

He tried to open a microbrewery that also serves frozen yogurt, "Microsoft".

Granted, those would probably be legal under the letter of Trademark Law.  :D

Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 22, 2011, 09:25:55 PM
you have a link to that story?  I would be interested in reading it

Urban homesteading, TM? (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/green/detail?entry_id=83591)

Quote from: San Francisco Chronicle
It seems the Dervaeses — pushing the boundaries of self-sufficiency — didn't get a lawyer before walking into this mess.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/green/detail?entry_id=83591#ixzz1EkjrutAa (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/green/detail?entry_id=83591#ixzz1EkjrutAa)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TexDaddy on February 22, 2011, 09:28:37 PM
@TexDaddy: thunk up yourself isn't required. What is required is using it in commerce (I.e., branding goods or services with the mark). Stupidest thing I never did:  start a shipping company called "fedex" while Federal Express customers called them that but before they adopted the name.
All true. And again I maybe wrong, but they seem to be claiming to be protecting 'intellectual property' by trade marking it. For instance, no one at GM claims that the word 'Impala' is something they invented or their intellectual property. They do reserve the right to be the only ones who manufacture an automobile by that name. By going after someone who used a common term that is even used in written law in their book because the term is their intellectual property because they trademarked it is ludicrous. Now, if they wanted to do business as 'The Urban Homestead Produce Co.' and trademark that name, I would have no problem with them going after someone else who started to grow or sell produce under that same name.

This is reminiscent of Tracy Jordan's illegitimate son Donald on "30 Rock" who keeps on thinking up and opening businesses with names that other companies use...

He names restaurant that serves the basics that everyone needs, "Staples".

He wants to name a phone service you can call to find out about air quality across the US, "American Airlines".

He tried to open a microbrewery that also serves frozen yogurt, "Microsoft".

Granted, those would probably be legal under the letter of Trademark Law.  :D


Probably, so long as there is no chance of "product confusion" and he did not try to make his logos look like theirs. For instance, GM once marketed a vehicle under the nameplate 'Beretta.' Of course this was already and still is a firearms manufacturer. The gun maker sued GM over the use of their trademarked name. It was settled out of court for "an undisclosed product exchange." GM sold Berettas (POS) and the gun maker said no more. I always wondered which, how many and who got the products Beretta traded to GM.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: chrisdfw on February 22, 2011, 09:34:27 PM
Probably, so long as there is no chance of "product confusion" and he did not try to make his logos look like theirs. For instance, GM once marketed a vehicle under the nameplate 'Beretta.' Of course this was already and still is a firearms manufacturer. The gun maker sued GM over the use of their trademarked name. It was settled out of court for "an undisclosed product exchange." GM sold Berettas (POS) and the gun maker said no more. I always wondered which, how many and who got the products Beretta traded to GM.

I think having the Beretta name on that POS is an afront to everything that is good and right in the world. Hopefully the products Beretta got in exchange were not that particular vehicle.

I think the real issue here is that the term has been in common use so long and by others that you can't possible claim exclusive use without either perjury or such a level of ignorance as to rise to what I would call "negligent ignorance"

So is this trademark claim perjury or negligent ignorance? That is what I would ask the Dervaeses if I got them on the stand. Which is it? Answer the question? I want the truth!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 22, 2011, 09:42:22 PM
So basically if the the Dervaes Family filled out the forms online at Legal Zoom or something similar and spent a small fee for the service there would have been no big loss if they'd have just dropped it when complaints began to surface. Now it's going to really cost them to sort this out because people are talking damages.

They wanted the Dervaes Legacy to be Urban Homesteading, and it's turning out to be a legacy of comical error and lack of foresight. Smooooooth.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TexDaddy on February 22, 2011, 09:46:13 PM
I think having the Beretta name on that POS is an afront to everything that is good and right in the world...
Well, most of it anyway.  ;)

...I think the real issue here is that the term has been in common use so long and by others that you can't possible claim exclusive use without either perjury or such a level of ignorance as to rise to what I would call "negligent ignorance"

So is this trademark claim perjury or negligent ignorance? That is what I would ask the Dervaeses if I got them on the stand. Which is it? Answer the question? I want the truth!
You have said so much better than I, what I have been driving at. (No pun here, of course.  :D )
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Dawgus on February 23, 2011, 04:17:44 AM
 Anyone remember the De®vaes "Ten Elements of Urban Homesteading"?
 #10 seems to really stand out for some reason......I just can't figure out why.  ;D

"10. Be a good neighbor. Offer a helping hand for free. Urban homesteading is a community-based way of life, not a business opportunity. Be a neighbor, not a business person. "


Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: hanzel on February 23, 2011, 04:34:22 AM
I just read in the San Francisco chronicle that they don't even have a lawyer.  So the whole, "maybe they got bad legal advice" excuse just went out the window.  They did this without lawyering up.  On their own.  No advice.

<shaking my head in disgust>

I posted the atty of record when they filed their claim;

ERIK M. PELTON ERIK M. PELTON & ASSOCIATES, PLLC
PO BOX 100637
ARLINGTON, VA 22210-3637
UNITED STATES
uspto@tm4smallbiz.com

Are they claiming that Mr. Pelton filed the claim now without their knowledge ?
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: endurance on February 23, 2011, 05:13:17 AM
Anyone remember the De®vaes "Ten Elements of Urban Homesteading"?
 #10 seems to really stand out for some reason......I just can't figure out why.  ;D

"10. Be a good neighbor. Offer a helping hand for free. Urban homesteading is a community-based way of life, not a business opportunity. Be a neighbor, not a business person. "
Maybe that's why they put it at the bottom of the list.  It's not all that important to them. ::)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: NotAGrasshopper on February 23, 2011, 06:28:51 AM
Um, do they realize that that statement, out of their own mouths, is prima facie evidence against their trademark filing?  Someone forward that to EFF. I can't because I'm on my blasted phone.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 23, 2011, 06:43:48 AM
Anyone remember the De®vaes "Ten Elements of Urban Homesteading"?
#10 seems to really stand out for some reason......I just can't figure out why.  ;D

"10. Be a good neighbor. Offer a helping hand for free. Urban homesteading is a community-based way of life, not a business opportunity. Be a neighbor, not a business person. "

Oh that is rich...
"Like a good neighbor Dervaes Institute is there..."
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 23, 2011, 06:59:09 AM
Are they claiming that Mr. Pelton filed the claim now without their knowledge ?

No.  They're not claiming anything.  Mr. Pelton is not their attorney.  He's just the attorney through whom the trademark was filed.  He has a somewhat anonymous filing form that anybody can fill out on his site, send him about a thousand bucks, and he'll file the trademark.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Calista on February 23, 2011, 10:56:21 AM
This seems to be a sad and predictable result of someone with a borderline messiah complex believing his own press to the extent of losing touch with reality.

Greedy, hypocritical, arrogant -- well, I'll stop there.  >:(
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: buddha on February 23, 2011, 01:31:33 PM
A good summary of what has transpired can be found here: http://www.agrariana.org/ (http://www.agrariana.org/)

All pretty sad, really.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Serenity Gulch on February 23, 2011, 01:57:50 PM
I'm on an email list with Mother Earth News. They send me an email with links to free articles a couple of times a week. Here's the subject line of today's email

DIY Skills & Projects: urban homestead projects; tool tips; more

Do you think the Dervaes Institute is going to send a letter to MEN?  ;)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Maddog on February 23, 2011, 02:35:05 PM
I noticed today, while syncing my IPod, that The Urban Homestead Podcast has been taken down.

Jules, my the bird of paradise fly up your nose, my an elephant caress you with his toes, my your wife be plagued with runners in her hose........
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: hanzel on February 24, 2011, 05:39:19 AM
One of my favorite classics

Microsoft Copyrights Binary

http://www.joke-archives.com/microsoft/mscopyrightsbinary.html (http://www.joke-archives.com/microsoft/mscopyrightsbinary.html)

REDMOND, WA--In what CEO Bill Gates called "an unfortunate but necessary step to protect our intellectual property from theft and exploitation by competitors," the Microsoft Corporation patented the numbers one and zero Monday.

With the patent, Microsoft's rivals are prohibited from manufacturing or selling products containing zeroes and ones--the mathematical building blocks of all computer languages and programs--unless a royalty fee of 10 cents per digit used is paid to the software giant..........
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, De®vaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Roswell on February 24, 2011, 08:15:13 AM
I noticed today, while syncing my IPod, that The Urban Homestead Podcast has been taken down.

Jules, my the bird of paradise fly up your nose, my an elephant caress you with his toes, my your wife be plagued with runners in her hose........


I listen to that too.  Apparently, the guy running it had two podcasts and has now combined them under the other's name, Backwoods Joe... http://www.backwoodsjoe.com/ (http://www.backwoodsjoe.com/)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, De®vaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Cooter Brown on February 24, 2011, 01:23:32 PM
Mother Jones finally has it;

http://motherjones.com/blue-marble (http://motherjones.com/blue-marble)

My favorite quote:

"Anyway, the irony of these folks claiming to have invented, and now own, the concept of self-sufficiency is just too blatant even to comment on. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going out to my backyard™ where I'm planning to build a chicken coop™ so I can have some eggs™ ."
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, De®vaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: cdnshooter on February 24, 2011, 02:00:35 PM
I just went out and got the last copy of Kelly Coyne's and Erik Knutzen's "The Urban Homestead" from a local bookstore. The clerk there commented that they had sold several in the past week or so!! ;D

Thanks to Jack and the De®vaes's, I got a great book (funniest book on gardening I have ever read!) that I had not been aware of before!

Cheers,

Ben

Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, De®vaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 24, 2011, 02:27:31 PM
Mother Jones finally has it;

http://motherjones.com/blue-marble (http://motherjones.com/blue-marble)

My favorite quote:

"Anyway, the irony of these folks claiming to have invented, and now own, the concept of self-sufficiency is just too blatant even to comment on. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going out to my backyard™ where I'm planning to build a chicken coop™ so I can have some eggs™ ."

That's awesome!!  :D
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, De®vaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: archer on February 24, 2011, 02:57:39 PM
I just went out and got the last copy of Kelly Coyne's and Erik Knutzen's "The Urban Homestead" from a local bookstore. The clerk there commented that they had sold several in the past week or so!! ;D

Thanks to Jack and the De®vaes's, I got a great book (funniest book on gardening I have ever read!) that I had not been aware of before!

Cheers,

Ben
I'm enjoying my new copy myself.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, De®vaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on February 25, 2011, 06:22:58 PM
Sorry for the repost, but I just thought it would be amusing to mention once more that the Amazon listing for "The Urban Homestead: Your Guide to Self-sufficient Living in the Heart of the City" By Kelly Coyne and Erik Knutzen has knocked the De®vaes Family Singers out of the top spot on Google.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, De®vaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Calista on February 25, 2011, 06:37:21 PM
I guess they're hiding out in silence licking their wounds and plotting a revised strategy, since it appears they ignored the deadline today:

The authors of The Urban Homestead (which is now on backorder on amazon.com) and their publisher, Process Media are now being represented by the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF). EFF Intellectual Property Director Corynne McSherry didn't waste any time and issued a cease and desist letter on Monday, with detailed legal precedence and a Friday, February 25th response deadline.

http://blogs.laweekly.com/squidink/food-news/ (http://blogs.laweekly.com/squidink/food-news/)

Has anyone heard if one of the $$$D$$$ family members has responded to the EFF letter???
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, De®vaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 25, 2011, 07:06:30 PM
No clue.  Their last blog update was two days ago and it was about acorn pancakes.  Their last Tweet was over a week ago, and they deleted their facebook page. 

Looks to me like they're withdrawing into themselves. 

Didn't they say something about wanting to move to South America?  I wish they'd do that.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, De®vaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Roswell on February 25, 2011, 10:18:11 PM
They put their Facebook page back up today.  They changed permissions so you have to "friend" them to see the whole page.  I am not their friend so that was as far as I got.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, De®vaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Amator on February 25, 2011, 10:19:53 PM
They put their Facebook page back up today.  They changed permissions so you have to "friend" them to see the whole page.  I am not their friend so that was as far as I got.

Somehow I don't think they'll be getting a lot of new friend requests.  Well, maybe from people who enjoy the schadenfreude of the situation.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, De®vaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: eph2 on February 26, 2011, 12:22:32 AM
Shunning is a powerful tool regardless of legal particulars.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, De®vaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on February 26, 2011, 01:45:02 AM
I reported their page to Facebook.  What they're doing is against FB policy.  Their profile doesn't represent a real person.  It represents a company, and companies HAVE TO have a fan page.  They cannot use personal profiles that require friend requests.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, De®vaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: endurance on February 26, 2011, 09:01:25 AM
I reported their page to Facebook.  What they're doing is against FB policy.  Their profile doesn't represent a real person.  It represents a company, and companies HAVE TO have a fan page.  They cannot use personal profiles that require friend requests.
Bwaaa!  Love it.  Remind me never to get on your bad side, sis!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, De®vaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: fritz_monroe on February 26, 2011, 10:46:51 AM
I reported their page to Facebook.  What they're doing is against FB policy.  Their profile doesn't represent a real person.  It represents a company, and companies HAVE TO have a fan page.  They cannot use personal profiles that require friend requests.

Karma's a bitch, isn't it?

The only Dervaes that I see on there now are 2 of the family members.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, De®vaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Mad_Man on February 27, 2011, 10:26:37 AM
I find many lessons in this whole sorry episode.

One thing is the high hubris of "The Family that Shall Not Be Named"®.  In hindsight, there were clues such as their refusal to come on TSP, or their desire to market every part of their life or their lack of reaching out to others with real information (unlike Jack).  I guess the trademarking of common words is just an extension of this.  I am sure a psychologist would say more.

Another thing is the highly negative reaction by the larger community.  Part of it is the feeling of betrayel by folks that many of us looked up to.  More so is the fact those people are trying to take what belongs to the common good. 

Finally is the rallying behind those who the community feel were wronged.  People did more than gripe, they acted.  Revenge is sweet.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, De®vaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Serenity Gulch on March 03, 2011, 11:49:23 AM
Before you accuse others of trademark infringement you might want to be sure that you're not guilty of plagiarism on your own website.


http://www.myearthgarden.com/2011/03/how-the-dervaes-family-stole-my-victory-garden/ (http://www.myearthgarden.com/2011/03/how-the-dervaes-family-stole-my-victory-garden/)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, De®vaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on March 03, 2011, 01:43:32 PM
Oh man... How many chickens have come home to roost over this? That was a great article, Serenity, thanks for the link!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, De®vaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Mr. Bill on March 03, 2011, 01:45:06 PM
http://www.myearthgarden.com/2011/03/how-the-dervaes-family-stole-my-victory-garden/ (http://www.myearthgarden.com/2011/03/how-the-dervaes-family-stole-my-victory-garden/)

[moderator]
Darn -- okay, I just removed "Dervaes" fron our censored words list, because it was "correcting" the above link with an ® symbol.  I guess that joke is done. :'(
[/moderator]
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Morning Sunshine on March 03, 2011, 01:52:54 PM
the link worked for me when I clicked it - even with the ® symbol.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on March 03, 2011, 02:20:25 PM
the link worked for me when I clicked it - even with the ® symbol.

It worked for me as well.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Mr. Bill on March 03, 2011, 02:53:48 PM
the link worked for me when I clicked it - even with the ® symbol.

I got "Page not found" but it redirected to the site's homepage where this article is currently at the top.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Morning Sunshine on March 03, 2011, 03:45:26 PM
ah, right, I forgot that.  it did work, kind of. so I thought that it had
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on March 03, 2011, 04:21:45 PM
Apparently they removed the the direct link to the blog post about Plagiarism after they were busted for Plagiarism. So here's a direct link to What is Plagiarism (http://urbanhomestead.org/journal/2011/02/17/what-is-plagiarism/) written by Justin Dervaes.

Plagiarism... There, I wrote it again.

I'm sure they'll kill it when they see it continuing to get hits.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Dainty on March 03, 2011, 04:37:31 PM
The post has been removed.

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: fritz_monroe on March 03, 2011, 05:01:42 PM
I certainly hope that he goes after them legally.  They want to pull there crap, they deserve everything they get.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sporadic_E on March 03, 2011, 05:44:50 PM
Who are they getting their legal advice from or are they making this shit up as they go along? What baffles me is that they had no forethought of how this could possibly go south on them. I can see the entire family sitting around the dinner table discussing with one another how they must protect their interest for the good of the family.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on March 03, 2011, 05:58:04 PM
Who are they getting their legal advice from or are they making this shit up as they go along? What baffles me is that they had no forethought of how this could possibly go south on them. I can see the entire family sitting around the dinner table discussing with one another how they must protect their interest for the good of the family.

I get the weird impression that Anais & Justin are really the only ones who have bought into Jules' BS.  Further, I get the impression that Anais is Jules' avenging angel.  She's the only really dangerous one in that family, I think.  Justin strikes me as the type who just wants to garden and totally go inside of himself and have nothing to do with the rest of the world.  Jordanne strikes me as the sweet artist who doesn't agree with ANYTHING that is happening, but feels relegated to internalizing her pain and frustration rather than leave the family.  Jules is insanity personified.  Anais scares me, though.  I get the distinct impression that she KNOWS how insane this is, and that she's the driving force behind the destruction of others, of her family, and of herself REGARDLESS of the insanity-level.  I always picture her smirking when I think about this.  She reminds me of Jim Taggart.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Calista on March 03, 2011, 06:39:07 PM
I felt a creepy, Jim-Jones vibe from reading this September 2010 interview with Anais about her being home-schooled:

http://whateverstateiam.com/2010/09/21/ask-the-grad-anais-dervaes/ (http://whateverstateiam.com/2010/09/21/ask-the-grad-anais-dervaes/)

The kicker is this sentence near the end:

"...our network of sites serves as an inspiration for millions of people interested in starting their own urban homesteads and living a more simple life."

Talk about hypocritical. We'll "inspire" you to start your own u.h. but we'll sue your ass if you use our terminology.  ::)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on March 03, 2011, 07:29:07 PM
Talk about hypocritical. We'll "inspire" you to start your own u.h. but we'll sue your ass if you use our terminology.  ::)

That's the thing.  It isn't their terminology.  It never was.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sporadic_E on March 03, 2011, 10:03:50 PM
It is like putting copyright on the sun, moon or stars. Instead they are destined to dwell in darkness.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Thox Spuddy on March 05, 2011, 01:44:03 PM
So did the D@ family respond to the Feb 25th deadline?
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TexDaddy on March 05, 2011, 02:17:29 PM
I felt a creepy, Jim-Jones vibe from reading this September 2010 interview with Anais about her being home-schooled:

http://whateverstateiam.com/2010/09/21/ask-the-grad-anais-dervaes/ (http://whateverstateiam.com/2010/09/21/ask-the-grad-anais-dervaes/)...
Something I find a little creepy. In the link above, she states she was 5 yrs old in 1979. That makes her like 37 years old today. Later she states, "Today, I am blessed to live and help out on my family’s one-fifth acre micro farm in Pasadena, Ca."

Personally, I will be very disappointed if any of my children have not already found there own way well before they reach this age.

Don't get me wrong, there are situations where multiple generations live together for very pratical reasons, and of course, each to his own way. Upon reading her account, I don't get the feeling this is the case here.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Morning Sunshine on March 05, 2011, 02:57:35 PM
Something I find a little creepy. In the link above, she states she was 5 yrs old in 1979. That makes her like 37 years old today. Later she states, "Today, I am blessed to live and help out on my family’s one-fifth acre micro farm in Pasadena, Ca."

Personally, I will be very disappointed if any of my children have not already found there own way well before they reach this age.

Don't get me wrong, there are situations where multiple generations live together for very pratical reasons, and of course, each to his own way. Upon reading her account, I don't get the feeling this is the case here.

yeah, this ^^^
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Oil Lady on March 05, 2011, 07:29:51 PM
Upon examining their trademark paperwork (http://www.trademarkia.com/urban-homestead-77574809.html), I wonder if the entire trademark can be declared invalid based upon the incorrect (and fraudulent?) claims they made IN WRITING when they filed that paperwork. According to their trademark paperwork, the "first use anywhere" of the phrase "urban homestead" was back in the year 2002.

Quote
First Use Anywhere:  12/1/2002

First Use In Commerce:  1/1/2003


There are mountains and mountains of evidence that the phrase has been in use in governmental circles going back to the 1960's with urban renewal movements, and it was (and still is) printed on actual governmental forms from the 1970's where the phrase "urban homestead" can be found in various check-off boxes (are they going to issue cease and desist letters to the federal government and to various state governments for printing those forms?). And there are law books going as far back as the 1920's and even 1876 that refer to urban homesteads. So I think that due to the fallacious information on their paperwork, a judge would probably express little or no reservation over nullifying their trademark.


Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: NotAGrasshopper on March 07, 2011, 01:48:22 PM
@OilLady:  The trademark paperwork refers to *their* "use anywhere" of the mark in connection to the goods/services for which they want to use the mark.  It does not refer to anyone else's use, nor does it refer to uses of the term in connection with goods/services other than what they claim (namely educational services).

Not defending, just clarifying.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Oil Lady on March 07, 2011, 02:11:54 PM
@OilLady:  The trademark paperwork refers to *their* "use anywhere" of the mark in connection to the goods/services for which they want to use the mark.  It does not refer to anyone else's use, nor does it refer to uses of the term in connection with goods/services other than what they claim (namely educational services).

Not defending, just clarifying.

Understood. But if that's the case, then it sounds like they are splitting both ends against the middle. And so they cannot have it both ways. They can't on the one hand say "we're only referring to urban homesteading according to our definition" but then turn around and say "no one can use the phrase urban homesteading when referring to anything that remotely resembles what we do without without attributing it to us." That kind of hair-splitting in a legal setting would only work against them as far as pushing to the limits the general patience of a judge. If you want to throw out the current government forms available for filing for urban homestead status, and if you likewise want to throw out the many legal text books going all the way back to 1876 which speak copiously about urban homesteading, and thus stick exclusively with the concept of sustainable agriculture done on the premises of a private residence in an urban (or suburban) setting, there is still precedent going back to the 1970's as evidenced in the oft-cited-in-this-thread news items from Mother Earth News. Therefore, the Dervaeses are in no way the first to use the term in that manner. It is my worthless layman's opinion that they just don't have a legal leg to stand on as far as defending the validity and perpetuity of their never-should-have-been-granted trademark(s).
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Greywolf27 on March 07, 2011, 02:28:40 PM
I don't know who the judge or lawyer is/was that approved their claims from the get go... but this is Kalifornia... the land of suing for anything and everything.  The judge/lawyer may have a soft spot in their heart for what the D's are doing.... maybe he/she owed them a favor...

TBH, this has really not affected me in anyway... other then some amusement in reading.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TxMom on March 08, 2011, 12:21:22 AM
Kind find the search terms I used before.  Somewhere I saw that they tried to trademark it earlier but was turned down.  Later they found someone trademarked "Urban Home" and used that to get their "urban homestead"
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: buffalojustice on March 08, 2011, 09:06:22 AM
Does no one here have access to a trademark lawyer? I found this http://www.intelproplaw.com/Forum/Forum.cgi?board=trademark;action=display;num=1086291275 (http://www.intelproplaw.com/Forum/Forum.cgi?board=trademark;action=display;num=1086291275) and it appears that this case is a no brainer. I just don't have three hundred, times two plus any counter action associated costs, to throw down on principle. Maybe a 'pass the hat' situation if people are really that concerned about it. I don't think the trademarks would hold up under the extra scrutiny. While there is ample proof that urban homestead/ing has been used long before the Dbags there is also ample roof that people have been "educating" others about it long before them as well. They may have "first commercial use" within their definition but it's quite clear that a company has already used the term, albeit for clothing, and had it registered at one time as well.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on March 08, 2011, 09:27:26 AM
The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) has taken on the case specifically on behalf of Kelly Coyne and Erik Knutzen, authors of The Urban Homestead: Your Guide to Self-Sufficient Living in the Heart of the City, and more broadly anyone who was affected by the DI takedown notices that were sent to FaceBook etc. So, if you feel like you would like to pass the hat or put some money into the hat, The EFF accepts donations.

Read the pdf copy of the letter from the EFF to the Dervaes Institute here (http://www.eff.org/files/LTTDervaes.pdf).

Disclaimer: I'm not connected to the EFF in any way and I'm not trying to raise funds for them.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: buffalojustice on March 08, 2011, 01:06:03 PM
I read that and I love it too. I was referring to the cancellation of the trademark as a whole. If this is what the  EFF is working on then great. I think the whole thing should be challenged as the reference to urban homestead/ing is a general definition of something people have been doing for at least a century and generally not a reference to the D's business. They did screw up because I used to tell people to check out the Dervaes when talking about UH and now I shy away from the term hoping the person will never find the Dervaes. Hopefully thousands of others will do the same and maybe then Jules will pull his head out of his ass and give it up. I'm not saying that I wish them any hardship but if this downs them then oh well, shouldn't have been such a poopy doo doo head! I shouldn't care so much since I live in suburbia and thus my plans are Suburban Homesteading but it just sucks that these guys stole an entire terminology from the community they say they support.

 I am buying The Urban Homestead: Your Guide to Self-Sufficient Living in the Heart of the City to help support them and I don't care if it's good or bad, I bet it's good though.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: archer on March 08, 2011, 01:46:14 PM
I am buying The Urban Homestead: Your Guide to Self-Sufficient Living in the Heart of the City to help support them and I don't care if it's good or bad, I bet it's good though.
I bought it recently, half done. Pretty good.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Thox Spuddy on March 08, 2011, 03:55:56 PM
I also bought their book and am impressed the way they have infused a light-heartedness into potentially stuffy topics. The dumpster diving content is great reading.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Calista on March 10, 2011, 12:24:55 PM
Another good analysis of the situation over at Transition US:

http://transitionus.org/blog/urban-homesteading (http://transitionus.org/blog/urban-homesteading)

Excerpt: "It is ironic that the Dervaes' homestead project originated long ago in a desire to access GMO-free food.  Now they have become, in effect, the GMO of the L.A. Green Scene.  They are attempting to patent the "seed," so that no one else is allowed to touch it without paying royalties.  Just like Monsanto, they are sic-ing their attorneys on people who are working publicly in good faith to do the right thing.  (For goodness sake, they even sent an attorney letter to a public library!)

Like Monsanto, they are attempting to patent what is essentially part of the "germoplasm" of The Great Turning.  They are attempting to claim certain long-standing knowledge -- knowledge that, up until a mere 60 or so years ago, was known to all as the basic stuffs of living -- and call it their own invention.  These are the tactics of corporate agribusiness --"
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on March 10, 2011, 02:43:24 PM
That's an interesting Blog Post and spot on.

Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: MrThirteen on March 10, 2011, 04:15:54 PM
I just trademarked "Thirteen"  j/k.... I wish I could actually, not for monetary reason, just to say "I own the trademark" LOL.  Badge of honor thing.  But now back to seriousness.

I too wonder if the EFF will publish the "D" families response to their request.  I first heard of this in one of Jack's posts, he only referenced it but didn't say anything about it other than "we all know..."  Well I didn't know but an easy search made it possible to find out.

I think the best thing to do is. A: Do not support thier websites, do not link anything for them, however we should support those they directly attacked.  I too, am considering buying the book mentioned in the EFF letter.

I hope the CAlifungus doesn't get me.  I live here too but as more and more liberties are taken away I am thinking it's time to move.

Maybe I can take Sister Wolf & Archer with me. (Only two I have seen posting so far that live here, I know there are others.)

I wanted to end this post with 13 repeats of the said trademarked phrase, but that would be childish and might bring light to their cause more, which is the last thing I want.  SO I'll just sign off.

Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on March 10, 2011, 06:49:59 PM
I hope the CAlifungus doesn't get me.  I live here too but as more and more liberties are taken away I am thinking it's time to move.

Maybe I can take Sister Wolf & Archer with me. (Only two I have seen posting so far that live here, I know there are others.)

My husband (The Wilderness) is also here in So Cal (obviously).  :)  We're looking at moving out to Tennessee in the next year or so.  If you're interested in getting out of Cali, I hope you're able to do it!!!!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: summer98 on March 11, 2011, 05:39:25 AM
My husband (The Wilderness) is also here in So Cal (obviously).  :)  We're looking at moving out to Tennessee in the next year or so. 
Sister Wolf,
I hope you do it. Tennessee is the prettiest place on Earth. Of course, I'm a bit biased. :)

I don't know if the EFF CAN post the Dervaes response, not if there's a chance of more legal action. I think that could get them in trouble, and unlike a certain family, they have real lawyers to advise them. I, too, am dying to know what their response -if anything -was.
And I'm thinking of naming a book about our homestead "From Urban Homestead to Farm"  ;D
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Thox Spuddy on March 11, 2011, 03:13:44 PM
We're looking at moving out to Tennessee in the next year or so. 
May I ask why Tennessee? And is this to get away from California?
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on March 11, 2011, 03:44:48 PM
May I ask why Tennessee? And is this to get away from California?

We're moving to Tennessee because after driving from here (southern cali) to Eastern Maryland and back last August, North Eastern Tennessee was the only part of the only state we absolutely fell in love with.  It was partly the ridiculous amount of wild food growing every time you stepped from the road into the tree line, partly the "just plain folks" up there who call you "hun" or "sweetheart" or "darlin'" and actually look you in the eye and/or smile at you, partly the fact that the only "litter" up there is flower petals and blackberry vines, partly the fireflies (FIREFLIES!!!), partly the mountain thunderstorms up there in the Smokey Mtns, and partly the heart-wrenching feeling that we were HOME the second we got there.

And the laws/freedoms don't hurt either.  And the price of living DEFINITELY doesn't hurt.  What I do for a living (graphic design, web development, and the TSP Gear Shop) can be done from anywhere.  It doesn't matter what state I'm in, I'll charge the same amount for my services.  So it doesn't matter to me what the typical income level is in those areas, as long as the crime is low (it is), the people are human (they aren't here in California - they're machines built for consumption of products that are ridiculously overpriced and judge you by that value, not by the quality of what you produce), the landscape gives back to me (it doesn't here in Cali, as we live in at the foot of a desert pass), and the word "windswept" makes people scratch their heads (here in the desert, it just makes people shudder and look at you like you've said something evil). 

I want to forget what it's like to be a Californian.  I want to learn what it's like to be free.  Tennessee has just about enough whiskey to make at least one of those things possible.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TNVolunteer on March 11, 2011, 04:02:22 PM
Quote
Tennessee has just about enough whiskey to make at least one of those things possible.

You don't know how true that is...of both the legal and illegal variety.

I'm from east TN and miss it like hell.  The land is fertile, the people are salt of the earth despite their shortcomings, you can be remote and yet near at the same time, no state income tax (last time I checked), home schooling is accepted, CCW laws are decent, etc. It has its drawbacks for sure, but it does offer something unique.   There is nothing quite like watching a sunrise in the Smokies, the Blue Ridge, or the Cumberland.  Some of my fondest memories.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: soccer grannie on March 11, 2011, 04:18:36 PM
... partly the fireflies (FIREFLIES!!!)
Don't be surprised when you have to learn a new vocabulary. I'm not that familiar with East TN but in Middle TN fireflies are called lightening bugs, a garden hose is a hose pipe, etc. Don't ask where yonder is, it's just yonder. And you'll hear plenty of recollecting, too (as in 'if I recollect' with a short e in the 1st syllable = 'if I recall/remember'). If someone asks 'what kind of Coke ya want?' it's a general term for any kind of soft drink. After living in TN for 50+ yrs and moving to SC, I had to learn a new vocabulary here.  ;)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on March 11, 2011, 04:52:20 PM
Don't be surprised when you have to learn a new vocabulary. I'm not that familiar with East TN but in Middle TN fireflies are called lightening bugs, a garden hose is a hose pipe, etc. Don't ask where yonder is, it's just yonder. And you'll hear plenty of recollecting, too (as in 'if I recollect' with a short e in the 1st syllable = 'if I recall/remember'). If someone asks 'what kind of Coke ya want?' it's a general term for any kind of soft drink. After living in TN for 50+ yrs and moving to SC, I had to learn a new vocabulary here.  ;)

I' d heard the "lightning bugs" one, but I keep forgetting it.  Why on earth do we call 'em fireflies down here, when we don't even HAVE THEM?  Silly desert rats don't know proper Tennessee speak.  :)

Thank you for the rest of those.  Re: "recollect," I'd have though it pronounced with a long e (as in "vinyl record"), and omitting the "o".  Like, "If ah rec'llect," like Gus McCrae might have said it in Lonesome Dove.  Texas != Tennessee.  I'll try to remember that. 

Oh, actually, that reminds me.  The way people cook in Tennessee was a small selling point to me too.  We had a family come up and bring dinner to us one night when we stayed in Tennessee.  They didn't know us from Adam, but they cooked us "Tennessee bbq beans" and dessert.  Food like that doesn't exist down here in So Cal.  Granted, I'll miss the amazing Mexican food, and I'll REALLY miss the Thai food (which is NOT the same as Eastern US Thai food, as we unfortunately discovered when we stopped in Pennsylvania because I was craving Thai), and the Boba (how do you guys NOT HAVE boba with thai iced tea back there?).  I'm sure I'll survive.  Somehow.  ;)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on March 11, 2011, 04:54:28 PM
You don't know how true that is...of both the legal and illegal variety.

I'm from east TN and miss it like hell.  The land is fertile, the people are salt of the earth despite their shortcomings, you can be remote and yet near at the same time, no state income tax (last time I checked), home schooling is accepted, CCW laws are decent, etc. It has its drawbacks for sure, but it does offer something unique.   There is nothing quite like watching a sunrise in the Smokies, the Blue Ridge, or the Cumberland.  Some of my fondest memories.

The fertile land is a huge reason.  And those THUNDER storms.  Man oh man.  Never seen anything like that.  The rain drops were big as paper plates.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on March 11, 2011, 05:32:36 PM
I grew up in Northeast Tennessee. It's a wonderful place. I'm nearly back there now, living in Southwest Virginia, but if I had a choice I'd go the extra 50 miles to get back to the area I spent most of the first 20 years of my life.

You'll love it I think.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TexDaddy on March 11, 2011, 05:47:59 PM
Now that we are totally off topic:

Tennesee is a beautiful, wonderful place. I have been there many times. The only drawback to Tennesee that I can think of, is rumor has it, the woods are haunted by some kinda mangoatdog creature. Pretty ferocious beast, from what I have heard.  ;)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: summer98 on March 11, 2011, 07:24:16 PM
Tennessee is heaven on earth as far as I'm concerned. I can't wait until we're living on our own homestead.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Thox Spuddy on March 11, 2011, 07:45:03 PM
I might be responsible in part for this thread going off topic, so what the hell...  how wonderful is Tennessee? I've only ventured south (from Wisconsin) to Florida twice (once in the early 1970's and later in 2005), and my experience going through the blue ridge mountains and southwards was that the geography was absolutely gorgeous, the southern hospitality of the people was expressed in being referred to as "honey", but the racism was horrid. To the point that I would never go that way ever again.

In the 1970's trip (we were long-haired hippies and so we were identified as freedom riders, civil rights activists, which we were not) our campsite was fire-bombed via a Molotov cocktail. I had a trigger-happy cop pull and cocked a gun on me because of the dog that was with us barked at him to protect us. When northern state license plates were observed at gas stations we were quizzed as to our opinion on mixed marriage. I live in a all-white community today and although I do highly admire our American-Afro culture, neither I nor my community would pass any kind of "prejudice free" test by any means,  but the racial sentiment in that part of the country to me borders on insanity. I could never live there, will never go there again. The good side? the Dervaes don't live there.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on March 11, 2011, 08:28:20 PM
WOW - I didn't get that at all.  Of course, I wasn't alive in 1970...  or 1980 for that matter.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: elcoyote on March 11, 2011, 08:38:12 PM
See, I can't just pick a spot. I love it all, the quiet humbleness of the Appalachians, the awe inspiring SIZE of the vast southwestern deserts, where the sky goes on forever, the bleak tops of jagged Rocky mountains keeping watch over you at all times, the huge, silent forests of the northwest, watching and waiting for something unknown. I could never pick a spot to stay forever. It's all so beautiful. But then, I've got that wanderer blood in me.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TexDaddy on March 11, 2011, 08:41:56 PM
WOW - I didn't get that at all.  Of course, I wasn't alive in 1970...  or 1980 for that matter.
I know you will find the racial situation no worse today in Tennessee than it is in any other part of the country.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Sister Wolf on March 11, 2011, 08:51:15 PM
I know you will find the racial situation no worse today in Tennessee than it is in any other part of the country.

I'm inclined to believe you.  I was treated with respect by people with all varieties/levels of melanin in their skin while we were there.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: wdrobins on March 11, 2011, 09:02:26 PM
Just happened to look into this forum and found you guys talking about God's country (where you ain't 'sposed to be talkin bout that topic); so, I couldn't resist putting in my two cents worth.

I can't believe Sister Wolf is going to TN.  I'm jealous. I lived in CA for 5 years, and that was 5 years too long.  I decided that I didn't want to stick around and help Californians deal with all their crap.

This talk about racist stuff in TN I think is long outdated.  Not that it doesn't exist somewhere in those hills, but I ain't worried.

Right now I'm working as a slave in Iowa, but I intend to move to TN as soon as I can get things worked out to get the h... out of this big GMO agribusiness welfare state.  Might be a couple of years, but I'm keeping my eye on land down there.  By the way, we have fireflies here in Iowa also.

I saw a nice piece of land advertised down there several weeks ago, and it sold before I could even talk to the Realtor.  I don't know which one of you bought it, but I'm jealous! :)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Thox Spuddy on March 11, 2011, 09:48:30 PM
WOW - I didn't get that at all.  Of course, I wasn't alive in 1970...  or 1980 for that matter.
I'm sure that times have changed
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: summer98 on March 12, 2011, 05:42:23 AM
There is still some racism in Tennessee (like elsewhere) but times have changed and the hardcore idiots have almost all died off. There are a few enclaves you wouldn't want to wander back into, but for the most part people are much better.

Wd -how much land are you looking for, and where?
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TNVolunteer on March 12, 2011, 07:40:52 AM
Quote
I'm sure that times have changed

Sorry you had such negative experiences.  I would agree that things are far different now than they were in the 70s.  How?  I don't know that I can articulate it very well.  Here is an example.  My father did not know a person of another race until he was sent to Vietnam.  Not the best of circumstances to make an initial foray into race relations.  Now my father was not and is not a racist.  He abhors it.  It is just that he did not have certain experiences growing up.  Now I grew up in E Tn in a different time.  I sat in classes next to people of different races, played sports, sat at the same tables in the cafeteria, had parties, and indeed knew people that had different skin color than me.  We were friends. It is just normal, no big deal.  That is not to say all is well and racism doesn't exist there, it does, but no worse than any of the number of places I've lived since leaving E TN.  If I were making a list of pros and cons of moving back there, racism wouldn't feature on that list at all.  

No, the Derv..s don't live there.  Guess they haven't figured out how to make their own 'shine so they most definitely wouldn't fit in...
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: wdrobins on March 12, 2011, 09:29:30 AM
Quote
Wd -how much land are you looking for, and where?

summer98,

I would like at least 20 acres or more if the price is right.  Might settle for less depending on price (or more).  I prefer mostly wooded with a year round spring, preferably one flowing fast enough for energy extraction purposes. I prefer land that is not all flat, and has some area suitable for building a house or cabin. Accessibility would also be a consideration. Eventually, I would like to be off-grid, so access to utilities, although nice, would be a secondary consideration if everything else was perfect.

As far as area, I'm considering somewhere between Middle to Eastern TN, which covers a lot of ground.  Eastern TN is first choice, but other areas are open to consideration as well.  Internet access better than dial-up is a must, and cell phone coverage is also necessary.

I believe from a prior post (if I remember correctly), you might be in the area somewhere between Huntsville, AL, going North toward Nashville.  That area would also be a possibility, although I want to stay out of the county in which Nashville is located due to high taxes, and so forth.  Originally being from AL and also living in Huntsville for a number of years, I'm well acquainted with that area, although not from the standpoint of rural land acquisition.

One issue that I haven't figured out yet is employment opportunities vs. location.  I've got to have some way to put bread on the table and purchase supplies for the homestead until I can get to a more self-sufficient lifestyle.  So, that is a big consideration.  I have adjunct teaching experience in Mechanical Engineering at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, and at Mercer University in Macon, GA.  So, my thought is that, if all else fails, there may be part time (or full time) work potentials if my property is located not too far from a university or college town.  This was one reason for considering Eastern TN not too far from the Knoxville area, or maybe Nashville area, but there are other areas as well that would fit this potential.

Amazing how we get off topic in these forums. :)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: TexDaddy on March 12, 2011, 09:57:29 AM
...Amazing how we get off topic in these forums. :)
I think everyone is just getting tired of "the family that must not be named."

Some moderator needs to clamp down on us here and get us back on topic.  ;)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Darkwinter on March 12, 2011, 09:58:27 AM
Go for it people.  The topic had run its course, or we may have nudged it back a bit more.

I blame Sis! :)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Calista on March 12, 2011, 11:19:52 AM
Okay, I'll make a stab at getting the thread back on topic...  ;D

I wonder why some investigative journalist hasn't hunted down the ex-Mrs. D and the fourth sibling who broke away from the D-Borg hive to get their take on this situation.

Wouldn't THAT be an interview to read.  :o
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Thox Spuddy on March 12, 2011, 12:56:04 PM
 :egyptian: I'm going to be the bad boy and go off topic just once more here.. back to Tennessee: "The Farm" was started in the 70's by a bunch of hippies that made an exodus out of California in a caravan of school buses. I met them in Minneapolis and their charismatic leader Stephen Gaskin. They do a lot of very interesting things. When I visited The Farm in 1973 they were pretty much living out of their buses and selling tempeh that they made in converted washing machines. http://www.thefarm.org/general/visit.html (http://www.thefarm.org/general/visit.html)
I hope the Dervaes don't find out about them as they might want to move there and copyright "The Farm".
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Morning Sunshine on March 12, 2011, 01:00:17 PM
Okay, I'll make a stab at getting the thread back on topic...  ;D

I wonder why some investigative journalist hasn't hunted down the ex-Mrs. D and the fourth sibling who broke away from the D-Borg hive to get their take on this situation.

Wouldn't THAT be an interview to read.  :o

i have wondered that myself.....
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: thezoo on March 13, 2011, 03:56:35 PM
Sister Wolf,
I hope you do it. Tennessee is the prettiest place on Earth. Of course, I'm a bit biased. :)

I don't know if the EFF CAN post the Dervaes response, not if there's a chance of more legal action. I think that could get them in trouble, and unlike a certain family, they have real lawyers to advise them. I, too, am dying to know what their response -if anything -was.
And I'm thinking of naming a book about our homestead "From Urban Homestead to Farm"  ;D
  just to add my 2 cents i drive truck, the only two states i miss, now that I drive locally in PA and MD, those states that I miss are Georgia,And Tenesee, you are right when you say tenesee is the most beautifull place on earth, especially pigeon forge, gatlinburg area
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: RPZ on April 08, 2011, 09:48:45 AM
Isn't this as absurd as trying to trademark "rural farming" or "ocean fishing"? Or "domestic violence"?
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Calista on April 08, 2011, 03:02:34 PM
Found this update today on a blog I follow:

The ongoing trademark issue, for those that aren't keeping up-to-date, has not died down. We thought they had the Dervaes' lawyer sent another more threatening letter to the publisher of  Urban Homesteading: Heirloom Skills for Sustainable Living written by Rachel Kaplan and Ruby Blume. The letter read:

"Although my client has attempted in good faith to resolve this matter amicably and without litigation, because you have indicated that [publishing company] is unwilling to comply with our requests, Dervaes has no choice but seek protection of its rights in court. Unless we receive written confirmation by the close of business on April 1, 2011 that [publishing company] will comply immediately with each of the demands detailed in my letter of 2/16/11, (and a subsequent more formal agreement detailing those terms,) Dervaes intends to seek an injunction, along with any damages and attorneys fees, against [publishing company]."


http://www.dogislandfarm.com/2011/04/urban-farming-backlash-and-how-we-can.html (http://www.dogislandfarm.com/2011/04/urban-farming-backlash-and-how-we-can.html)

I'm kinda stunned at the disconnect ol' Jules has with REALITY.  :o
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on April 08, 2011, 04:59:16 PM
Wow, I guess I had assumed that they were going to drop their ambitions for enforcing the Trademark, but it appears as if this is not the case. Then again, I don't believe that I am surprised either.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Thox Spuddy on April 08, 2011, 08:49:22 PM
Arrogance!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Oil Lady on April 09, 2011, 05:48:36 PM
At this point I fear the Dervaes are being taken for a ride by a slimy lawyer who knows they can't win, but he is sucking up hourly fees from the Dervaes anyhow.

An injunction? The Dervaes are threatening an injunction? Against what?

Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Roswell on April 12, 2011, 12:35:06 PM
I would normally never say this, but I really hope these people loose their farm.  :pissed:
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: RodPowley on April 12, 2011, 02:54:29 PM
It says on the trademark page linked below that cancellation is pending. Does this mean they have had a change of heart due to the bad publicity?

http://www.trademarkia.com/urban-homestead-77574809.html (http://www.trademarkia.com/urban-homestead-77574809.html)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Roswell on April 12, 2011, 04:35:13 PM
It says on the trademark page linked below that cancellation is pending. Does this mean they have had a change of heart due to the bad publicity?

http://www.trademarkia.com/urban-homestead-77574809.html (http://www.trademarkia.com/urban-homestead-77574809.html)

I don't know yet if it was because of that or some action of EFF.  I am sure we will hear more in the future.  Either way this is a very good sign and I will never trust the Dervaes again or promote them.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: cohutt on April 12, 2011, 07:07:01 PM
Seems Erik and Kelly and the EFF filed a petition to have it canceled on April 6.

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/stickaforkinit/2011/04/dervaes_electronic_freedom.php (http://blogs.ocweekly.com/stickaforkinit/2011/04/dervaes_electronic_freedom.php)


EFF PR https://www.eff.org/press/archives/2011/04/04-0 (https://www.eff.org/press/archives/2011/04/04-0)


And the petition https://www.eff.org/files/filenode/urbanhomestead/petitiontocancel_001.pdf (https://www.eff.org/files/filenode/urbanhomestead/petitiontocancel_001.pdf)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on April 12, 2011, 07:19:38 PM
I can't wait to read the Dervaes Institute Press Release after they loose the Trademark. Fingers crossed...
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: EllisFamilyOKC on April 12, 2011, 07:48:27 PM
Oops! Looks like someone didn't respond in a timely manner. Let's take up a collection and register this!
http://www.trademarkia.com/path-to-freedom-78706804.html (http://www.trademarkia.com/path-to-freedom-78706804.html)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: archer on April 12, 2011, 08:55:12 PM
good news!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Calista on April 13, 2011, 06:39:43 PM
Jules not making deadlines and maybe ignoring the whole mess in hopes it will go away and he won't be counter-sued kinda reminds me of those perps on foot, running through the neighborhoods with police helicopters in hot pursuit with a big, bright light.

In both cases, do they really think they're going to get away with it?  :D
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: BlackHawkScout on April 19, 2011, 09:45:52 PM
Well, the whole thing sure seems like a bad idea. I must not be seeing how trademarking the name could ever help them that much and even if it did, how having a bunch of folks writing letters and stirring up "ant beds" would look like a good idea.

I respect what they do, but as an earlier poster commented, he has been doing the same thing, as have countless others, for many years.

I have always felt froom looking at their website photo that they were either actors in an FBI witness protection program commercial or actual pod people luring pospective transfers onto their property.

Also, while what they are doing really is a good idea, and should be modeled nationwide, until it is on every block, their experiment reminds me of starting a small baby rabbit farm in the middle of the hyena enclosure in the zoo. It is a great idea for the unused space in the hyena enclosure, until the day the zookeepers can not show up to protect the baby rabbit farm. 
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: inbox485 on June 24, 2011, 07:02:05 PM
This says everything anybody ever needed to know about these d-bags:

Word Mark:   PATH TO FREEDOM
Status:   ABANDONED-FAILURE TO RESPOND OR LATE RESPONSE
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: inbox485 on June 24, 2011, 07:04:37 PM
Well, the whole thing sure seems like a bad idea. I must not be seeing how trademarking the name could ever help them that much and even if it did, how having a bunch of folks writing letters and stirring up "ant beds" would look like a good idea.

I respect what they do, but as an earlier poster commented, he has been doing the same thing, as have countless others, for many years.

I have always felt froom looking at their website photo that they were either actors in an FBI witness protection program commercial or actual pod people luring pospective transfers onto their property.

Also, while what they are doing really is a good idea, and should be modeled nationwide, until it is on every block, their experiment reminds me of starting a small baby rabbit farm in the middle of the hyena enclosure in the zoo. It is a great idea for the unused space in the hyena enclosure, until the day the zookeepers can not show up to protect the baby rabbit farm. 

The point of TM's is so that I can't start a soda company called CocaCola and replicate their can and ride their coat tails. In that sense it is a good thing. What the D- family is doing is more like TMing the term cola itself.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Morning Sunshine on June 24, 2011, 07:23:48 PM
was just yesterday wondering where this was at.  what about the family?  are they still circling the wagons around their craziness?
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: inbox485 on June 24, 2011, 07:34:03 PM
Yup:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Take-Back-Urban-Home-steadings/167527713295518
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Cedar on June 24, 2011, 07:57:45 PM
... most people disappointed with Dervaes family. It seems very anti to the movement they promote.

I have no clue who they are and don't want to know who they are, for what I am reading here, they are urban, but they certainly do not have the homesteading attitude. They are seemingly up there with the AgriBiz boys if they are in it for the buck.. and tradmarking phrases to boot.

Cedar
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Nicodemus on June 25, 2011, 06:52:42 AM
You'd run circles around them with your endeavors, cedar.

To a lot of folks they were somewhat of an inspiration with their ability to produce so much on such a small patch of urban land, but they've lost a lot of their ability to inspire with the shenanigans of recent months.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Thox Spuddy on July 25, 2011, 02:21:12 PM
They're Urban Homesteading in Alaska!

http://www.adn.com/2011/07/22/v-swf/1980853/anchorages-urban-homesteaders.html (http://www.adn.com/2011/07/22/v-swf/1980853/anchorages-urban-homesteaders.html)
http://community.adn.com/adn/node/157668 (http://community.adn.com/adn/node/157668)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: nkawtg on July 25, 2011, 07:37:54 PM
Very nice. With 20+ hours of sunshine they can get alot grown in a short period. Hope they have lots of canning supplies.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Mr. Bill on November 05, 2015, 07:33:36 PM
Credit to Roswell for finding this:

“URBAN HOMESTEADING” TRADEMARK CANCELLED BY FEDERAL COURT (https://www.facebook.com/148774315190090/photos/a.148779228522932.33367.148774315190090/936516569749190/?type=3)

Quote
Today in a pre-trial ruling a federal court in California cancelled the trademark for “urban homesteading” which its owner had used to disable a number of Facebook pages in 2011 by claiming infringement. This ended a nearly five-year legal struggle by a small farmers’ market in Denver, Colorado named Denver Urban Homesteading to cancel the trademark which began when the farmers lost their Facebook page and contacts with customers in February 2011.

The trademark was owned by the Dervaes Institute of Pasadena, CA, self-described in California incorporation papers as a “religious society” and operated by Jules Dervaes and members of his family. ... Court filings show that the Dervaes Institute had issued cease and desist letters to book authors, book publishers, farmers’ markets and even a public library.

...in December 2014 Denver Urban Homesteading sued in California where a judge in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California canceled the trademark because it is generic. Generic words and phrases cannot be registered as trademarks. ...
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: endurance on November 05, 2015, 09:28:36 PM
Credit to Roswell for finding this:

“URBAN HOMESTEADING” TRADEMARK CANCELLED BY FEDERAL COURT (https://www.facebook.com/148774315190090/photos/a.148779228522932.33367.148774315190090/936516569749190/?type=3)
:clap:
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: archer on November 05, 2015, 09:35:15 PM
excellent!
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: FreeLancer on November 05, 2015, 10:04:59 PM
The wheels of justice......turn slowly.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: Oil Lady on November 06, 2015, 03:11:29 AM
Thank God for judges with intelligence and common sense! :)
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: I.L.W. on November 06, 2015, 12:14:39 PM
Rare that reason and law come together like that these days. Still, it's sad. They inspired a lot of people and were good at what they did. They just got caught up in their own bullshit. People in agriculture and permaculture circles trademark and patent things all the time, but with the intent of preserving the idea from would-be abusers. They don't do it to sue people, they do it so they won't have to defend themselves from litigious patent trolls in court later. These unrelated groups and businesses didn't detract from their recognition or harm their business. They sued anyway.

It's a lesson learned. They turned their back on the most basic principals of their target audience, damaging people who would likely have been strong allies in their legitimate endeavors, and lost years in silly court battles which might have been spent building their reputation into something marketable. Look at how many here at TSP were supporters until they started with the trademark nonsense. Just this one website being alienated by their actions cost them thousands of potential customers & supporters.

I just hope they realize this and get their venture back on track with more legitimacy. They're kooks, sure. Far be it for me to hold that against them (Pot & Kettle). But they have knowledge, drive and a real desire to share that with their community. Their litigiousness however prevented other similarly motivated people from doing the same. If they pay whatever damages are assessed by the court, apologize to the businesses they hurt, fire their attorney, put their skills to work in providing a real service to their community and sincerely admit they were wrong, I'd probably follow their work again. Until then... they got what they deserved. I believe in second chances, but they must be earned.

The family has been harassed, they did get threats (a unmeasured response to a cease and desist order). The backlash from the community likely caused them to dig their heels in on principal. They could see how their opponents were obviously wrong in sending death threats, and that blinded them to their own misdeeds.  Add in a lawyer to obscure the moral arguments with legal arguments and I can see how they ended up here. I just hope they get their shit together and resume the good work they were doing before all this legal nonsense.

I do get kind of weird vibe from them though... Like maybe they should have trademarked "Urban Jonestown" instead.
Title: Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
Post by: artephius on November 11, 2015, 08:36:23 PM
WOW the government actually did something right for a change... I don't know what to say...