The Survival Podcast Forum

News => Current Severe Emergency Situations => Topic started by: Cedar on March 22, 2014, 09:01:52 PM

Title: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 22, 2014, 09:01:52 PM
The Snohomish sheriff warned people to stay clear of trestles or bridges or anywhere near the Stillaguamish River downstream of the slide. "Water could break through at any moment," the sheriff's office tweeted.

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2014/03/mudslide-carries-at-least-one-house-onto-snohomish-county-highway/
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/22/us/washington-landslide/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Biohazard on March 22, 2014, 09:10:56 PM
I listened to the event unfold on my scanner. 3 now dead and several critical including a 6 month old.
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 22, 2014, 09:56:59 PM
Mandatory evacuations ordered from Oso to Stanwood, Washington after deadly mudslide clogs Stillaguamish River.

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 23, 2014, 12:35:49 PM
18 people still missing
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Washington-slide-kills-3-searchers-seek-survivors-251780401.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/23/us-usa-mudslide-washingtonstate-idUSBREA2L0R020140323
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/23/us/washington-landslide/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


I have stood at this one before
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_Slide

It is the a reason of why I don't choose land to live at,

Cedar

Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: antsyaunt on March 23, 2014, 06:31:25 PM
This is just awful.  Do any TSP people live near there? 
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 23, 2014, 06:54:33 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bjc3n9OIYAAmt7A.jpg)

4th person confirmed dead

cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: JerryS on March 23, 2014, 10:54:32 PM
I live in Snohomish County.

This can sum up the core problem around here at the moment:

http://www.enlight-inc.com/total_rainfall_2007.html

Clearing Total as of March 20: 15.955 inches
Forest Total as of March 20: 8.835 inches

That is 4x the total rainfall for March compared to 2013.

There have been smaller mudslides in the general area.. There were I think 3 last week that blocked the Everett <-> Seattle commuter train Monday-Thursday.
Friday when I was riding the train you could see the water seeping out of the hills.. Very visible streams of it.

Unfortunately slides are a risk when the ground is saturated like that.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Blocked-Wash-river-trickling-through-big-mud-wall-251805781.html

The risk of the river breaking through that mud wall quickly is still there.
Hopefully the river will slowly cut a new channel.  But if we get more heavy rain I'd bet on something more sudden.

Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 24, 2014, 06:09:55 AM
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/3/23/wash-mudslide-kills3searchersseeksurvivors.html
8 dead found. Lots still missing. The slide is covering a full square mile. Too dangerous to get emergency crews in all of it.

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Smurf Hunter on March 24, 2014, 09:21:40 AM
Thankfully all my friends and relatives up north are safe and accounted for.   The amount of earth that has moved is just surreal.  People say it reminds them of Mt. St. Helens eruption 30+ years ago.
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 24, 2014, 10:59:51 AM
108 names on list of missing or unaccounted for in Washington mudslide - AP

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: mountainmoma on March 24, 2014, 01:24:50 PM
That's alot of people -- I had no idea this many were missing
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 24, 2014, 01:30:45 PM
Yeah.. I thought it was still at 18 missing.. Yikes!

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Coctailer on March 24, 2014, 02:55:01 PM
Last report I got was 8 dead, 108 missing.

Prayers sent.
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: endurance on March 24, 2014, 03:40:35 PM
I was doing a little google-fu after seeing a local map of the area and saw something quite disturbing.  Admittedly, I googled what appeared to be the address where the mudslide happened based on a news report and I can't get confirmation the address is accurate.  My original intent was to see the neighborhood density of the area using a satellite view on google maps, however, while looking at the satellite view I noticed what appears to be a scarp indicating previous movement of this same section of land that slid.  If so, with just a little basic geology knowledge, this whole thing could have been foreseen well in advance (like decades in advance).

(http://i.imgur.com/UtzGzou.png)

Note the roughly north/south scarp along the left side of the photo (you can google east Steelhead Drive, Arlington, WA to see the actual image you can zoom into).  That's a classic warning sign I learned about in my Geology 101 class in college 20+ years ago.

(http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/779/cache/washington-mudslide-01_77948_990x742.jpg)
From National Geographic

I have no intent to point fingers here, just noting that this might have been a tragedy that could have been foreseen well in advance if the right person in the right position had stepped up and said something.

Also, back to my original mission, it looks like there's about 25-30 or so homes that were in what appears to be the impact area.  That obviously jives with the current missing count of 108.  This whole thing is just beyond tragic.
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: mountainmoma on March 24, 2014, 04:33:33 PM
good eye. But, I dont think there is any such eyes that look at the geology before houses are built ?
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: LJH on March 24, 2014, 04:47:39 PM
I read that some of the houses lost were 100+ years old. Other than a few scientists who studied such things, I doubt too many folks were aware of the warning signs back then. And, it took all this time for something to break loose. 

There's a very well known longarm quilting teacher named Nicole Webb. She teaches all over the country and I've met her a couple of times at big quilt shows. She lost her daughter, daughters fiancée and both parents to this slide.

This so sad, bringing back that queasy-guts feeling I got when two people were killed by a giant rock that came down a cliff in the tiny town of Rockville, UT. I drive past that every time I have to go into the city. They got the bodies out the next day but everything else is untouched; giant, house-sized boulders still sitting on a pile of rubble that used to be a home.
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: endurance on March 24, 2014, 05:00:49 PM
good eye. But, I dont think there is any such eyes that look at the geology before houses are built ?
No, not in most cases.  Like I said, I'm not trying to lay blame on anyone, just a tragedy that might have been prevented had the right person at the right time in the right place said something. 

I remember driving up a valley where I lived one year and tracing an old avalanche path down the hillside to a home by the river.  All the trees along that path were about 50 years old while the remainder of the forest were trees that were at least 100 years old or older.  It was so obvious to me that whoever built and bought that house had no clue about the hazards they faced, but to this day (20 years now since I first saw it), there hasn't been a single avalanche in that little gully.  Sure, there might never be another avalanche there again, but I sure wouldn't bet my life on it.  One day I worked up the nerve to talk to the home owners and expressed my concern.  Their response was, "huh, interesting."  I didn't push it.  It wasn't my place and obviously he had too much invested to take the threat seriously.

I might be the same way on some other issue that I'm blind to.  We all have our blind spots.  Heck, I live with the belief that I've mitigated my home enough that it would probably survive a wildfire.  I hope to never learn if I'm right or wrong.

Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 24, 2014, 05:47:12 PM
Search and rescue crews have located an additional six bodies. 14 dead and 101 unaccounted for after mudslide.

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 24, 2014, 06:46:10 PM
President Obama signs Washington State emergency declaration, ordering federal aid after deadly mudslide. Via NBC

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: mountainmoma on March 24, 2014, 06:47:00 PM
There are alot of people here in the Santa Cruz mountains that live in houses in much more obvious mud slide danger. Where the houses are built right on the sometimes unstable hillsides. I dont get it, it is a fairly obvious risk, we have lost homes and lives to these - in comparison - littler mud slides in years past.

This big one up there in Washington, though, I think wasnt so obvious to most of us people who cant read geology too well. To think of such a HUGE piece of the mountain, all the way across the river like that going, and getting you home...... Like you said, obvious if the right person were to see it, but I would have never thought it could happen if I was them. So sad.
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 24, 2014, 06:59:56 PM
Where the houses are built right on the sometimes unstable hillsides. I dont get it, it is a fairly obvious risk, we have lost homes and lives to these -

One time when I was in California, I saw huge amount of damage that the San Andreas Fault did to houses and I saw a 5 foot drop and upheave from it. The ruins of the buildings were right there. It is a pretty famous earthquake prone fault I think..and 5 miles down the road ... was new construction for apartments and houses.  ???

And on the Oregon coast.. right out on the sandbar, they build multi- million dollar homes.

Even around here, hillsides/mountains which are not generally unstable, they clearcut the top of them and the people below get the brunt of it.

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: endurance on March 24, 2014, 08:00:44 PM
Well, it didn't take too much research to see that the scarp only formed in 2006 in a previous smaller mudslide.  The area has a well documented history of mudslides.  Another case where surviving sometimes comes down to doing due diligence when researching where you're buying and what the local hazards are.

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2023211509_mudslidehistoryxml.html (http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2023211509_mudslidehistoryxml.html)

Quote
The slide eight years ago dispatched a wall of mud down the same hill that buckled this weekend. “This is the very same mass of rock and dirt,” said Tim Walsh, geologic hazards chief for the state Department of Natural Resources. “It just moved again.”

“Landslides often occur in the same place over and over.”
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 24, 2014, 08:04:35 PM
Washington State Mudslide toll update
- 6 bodies recovered today
- 14 dead
- 176 unaccounted for

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: FreeLancer on March 25, 2014, 02:28:21 AM
This (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/washington-slide-death-toll-14-search-continues/2014/03/24/b7114b06-b3b1-11e3-bab2-b9602293021d_story.html) really struck me:

Quote
Ed Hrivnak, who was co-piloting an aircraft that was first to arrive at the scene, said a lot of the houses weren’t buried. When they got hit, “the houses exploded.” He said cars were crushed into little pieces, their tires the only signs that they had been vehicles.

He said he saw people so thoroughly covered in mud that searchers could only spot them by the whites of their waving palms. His helicopter rescued eight people, including a 4-year-old boy, who was up to his knees in concretelike compressed mud.

The mud was so sticky, the rescuers were worried about getting stuck so the helicopter hovered about a foot away and the crew chief tried to pull him out. “He was suctioned in that mud so much that his pants came off,” Hrivnak said.
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: NWPilgrim on March 25, 2014, 03:35:53 AM
As sharp as the hillside is now where it slid off you got to figure there will be LOT more mud, rocks and trees coming down that slope for years.  Very dangerous area.

My grandparents use to own property up the valley of the East fork of the Wood River near Hailey/Sun Valley, ID.  A gravel road traverses the north hillside and looks down across the valley floor. My mom pointed the avalanche chutes all along the south hillside (facing north) and how every few years the would roar across the valley all the way up to the road.  Back then there were but a few houses, and the old Triumph Mine all on the north hillside, for a reason!

Nowadays when you look across that same valley floor there are $3-$5 million homes clustered all up through the valley.  I am amazed there has not been one avalanche through there in 30 years.  Mostly smaller ones that stay on the south side of the river.  But one of these days we will hear of the tragedy of wealthy folks wiped out in a Sun Valley area avalanche.
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 25, 2014, 04:29:10 AM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-26726746

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73782000/jpg/_73782390_map.jpg)

Family members and volunteers were using chainsaws and their bare hands to shift the wreckage and try to find those missing. Cory Kuntz, helped by others, worked with chainsaws to cut through the roof of his uncle's house, which was swept about 450ft (137m) from its location. He said his aunt, Linda McPherson, had been killed. He and the others pulled files and personal effects from the house.

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73782000/jpg/_73782409_73782403.jpg)

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73781000/jpg/_73781937_73781930.jpg)

(http://img3.allvoices.com/thumbs/image/609/480/103947950-rescue-workers.jpg)
Across the highway

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 25, 2014, 05:26:30 PM
Additional bodies have been found at scene of WA mudslide; number not yet disclosed.

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 25, 2014, 07:51:13 PM
At least 8 additional bodies seen at scene of WA mudslide but not yet recovered, putting presumed death toll at 24

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 27, 2014, 12:35:55 AM
Some of 90 missing in mudslide may not be found
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Grim-reality-Some-slide-victims-may-not-be-found-252505831.html

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: NWBowhunter on March 27, 2014, 06:51:00 AM
How 1 survivor did lived http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Landslide-survivor-I-just-kept-digging-and-digging-and-digging-252560411.html (http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Landslide-survivor-I-just-kept-digging-and-digging-and-digging-252560411.html)
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 27, 2014, 07:19:26 PM
WA landslide: Fire chief says expects death toll to rise "very, very much" by Friday morning; latest toll is 16 dead, 90 missing

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: busymomx3 on March 27, 2014, 07:48:11 PM
This is so tragic. WA and that area have mud slides every year. Not usually so big but not uncommon either. Most people don't pay attention when it's normal.
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: endurance on March 27, 2014, 08:46:19 PM
Quote
In a 2010 report mandated by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the county identified the Hazel formation as one that carried the potential for deep-seated landslides, considered the worst of the worst because of their power and size.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-washington-hazel-slide-risk-20140326,0,477127.story#ixzz2xDmmVuXC

Quote
"Nobody told of any of us," Robin Youngblood, 63, said Wednesday on CNN.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-washington-hazel-slide-risk-20140326,0,477127.story#ixzz2xDn5kFku

While I get it, nobody and came knocking on your door and said, "Hey, Lady, ya see that hillside over there?  In about five years it's going to slide on down here and wipe out your home."  To me, the article makes it pretty clear that if you wanted to know about the hazards in your area, all you had to do was do a little poking around.  There were plenty of experts and county officials that were aware there was a significant hazard in the area.  People hear what they want to hear.  They want a nice home by the river with beautiful trees all around and ignore information that might indicate that there's a life threatening hazard.  I hear the same thing when it comes to wildfires.  Before the fire folks will say that they love their home in among the trees.  After the fire they say they didn't know they were so vulnerable.
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: FreeLancer on March 27, 2014, 09:35:25 PM
While I get it, nobody and came knocking on your door and said, "Hey, Lady, ya see that hillside over there?  In about five years it's going to slide on down here and wipe out your home."  To me, the article makes it pretty clear that if you wanted to know about the hazards in your area, all you had to do was do a little poking around.  There were plenty of experts and county officials that were aware there was a significant hazard in the area.  People hear what they want to hear.  They want a nice home by the river with beautiful trees all around and ignore information that might indicate that there's a life threatening hazard.  I hear the same thing when it comes to wildfires.  Before the fire folks will say that they love their home in among the trees.  After the fire they say they didn't know they were so vulnerable.

True. "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

And I can just imagine the uproar from those residents if officials had come in and condemned those properties in the slide zone.
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Smurf Hunter on March 28, 2014, 09:32:01 AM
In hindsight it's easy to think at the macro level and criticize.

Look at the loss of life.
Look at the risk to rescue teams.
Look at the damage to the local economy,
etc.

The problem is, if the risk was limited to an individual, or even a family we wouldn't worry.  Just as we would allow someone to free climb a rock formation, sky dive or other risky activities.

Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 28, 2014, 10:24:45 AM
This 5" of rain is not going to help recovery efforts. Be safe you responders!!!

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 29, 2014, 07:28:15 PM
This is from my former SAR unit CEO and he said "Yes, Please".. when I asked if I could repost this.

-Cedar

Cedar -- ANOTHER REASON WE SHOULD BE SELF-RELIANT...An update from my friend Rep. Scott on the tragedy in Oso. WA. What an encouraging story of great Americans helping their neighbors without depending on (or in spite of) government.
Please pray for them... - HJ





Dear friends,

Thank you for your continued prayers. I spent time in Arlington on Sunday and Monday, and significant time in Darrington every day since Sunday. Watch my Elizabeth Scott facebook page for frequent updates and photos. It is heartbreaking being there when residents have found bodies or pieces of bodies.

I have seen a car flattened like a pop can; only the wheel still attached identified it as a car. This really should be called a 'massive landslide with a mud tsunami.' The mud is 30 feet deep in some places; a man was found in his second-floor bedroom, in his bed, with a flattened car next to him.

That being said, the B.S. is also 30 feet thick and the people of Darrington are having none of it. The political photo-ops, the talking points, the lowballed numbers the first few days--a resident told me his team alone found 12 bodies on Saturday on the southeast side of the slide area but the official number was 3 for that day and the next-- the lack of communication between the Darrington side and the Arlington side are infuriating the citizens and for good reason. It is the citizens who have performed some of the rescues, the finding of many of the bodies, the road construction to open up an east-west route alongside the broken mile and half of Highway 530--yes with their own trucks, graders, excavators and donated gravel--, and they did this without the permission of 'the authorities' but with the blessing of Mayor Dan Rankin who is doing a great job pushing forward and getting things done.

The team on the Darrington side was told that they must get everything cleared through the Arlington EOC, but phone calls are not taken, voice mails not returned, the Darrington team is not even allowed to be on the conference calls, so the Arlington side was using maps that bore no resemblance to the new reality and not getting info from boots on the ground at the actual locations where bodies were being found.

WSDOT trucks and tractors from a pre-slide project sit in the forest along 530 on the Darrington side but nobody will allow the Darrington folks to use them; incredibly frustrating. A call from me to DOT was not returned. It took 3 days for them to get a shower truck for the workers; two days to get portopotties out where workers were.

I want you all to keep this in mind: follow Darrington's example; be self-reliant and know your community and have a plan; do not depend on government to help you in a crisis. The red tape is thick, nobody wants to be held responsible for picking up the tab for food, water, saw blades, etc. and too many people just cover each other's rears or use it to build each other up, ignoring what really needs to be done.

Look at the article all about the trooper, who was on the side while citizens waded out into the mud ignoring downed power lines in order to get the baby and trapped woman on Saturday. But the article was all about the trooper. Nothing against troopers at all but the media is ignoring the real story here...the resiliance and determination of the people of the Stillaquamish Valley. Pray for them.

Elizabeth Scott
206-330-XXXX
http://houserepublicans.wa.gov/elizabeth-scott/
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: endurance on March 29, 2014, 09:52:04 PM
I hate to say it, but it sounds to me like another politician trying to play the blame game, pointing fingers, but not contributing or taking accountability herself.  Perhaps instead of complaining about the death toll tally she should ask a few questions and she'd probably find out why, which is probably because they want to identify the individuals to make sure people aren't being counted twice.

It's a congress-critter's job to point fingers, but rarely do they understand the purpose of or how the incident command system works, thus, they assume because locals are being left out, there is something wrong.  What they don't understand is that the ICS exists to take the burden off local resources so they can continue to deal with the local issues and have specialists focus on the disaster at hand.  You see this with every major wildfire, too, but it's just the way things work.  If the local department is tied up in the fire, who's going to respond when there's a heart attack on the other side of town?  Who's going to respond to the fire alarm at the school that isn't just burnt grilled cheese this time?  But I wouldn't expect a congress-critter to understand all that.
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 29, 2014, 10:07:02 PM
-- the lack of communication between the Darrington side and the Arlington side are infuriating the citizens and for good reason. It is the citizens who have performed some of the rescues, the finding of many of the bodies, the road construction to open up an east-west route alongside the broken mile and half of Highway 530--yes with their own trucks, graders, excavators and donated gravel--,

This is what I got out of it:
I am not surprised in the lack of communication. I am not surprised that citizens are doing alot of the digging.

Most of the SAR groups are volunteer as it is. This thing is huge. I have not heard of other agencies coming in to help.

and..... "be self-reliant and know your community and have a plan; do not depend on government to help you in a crisis. The red tape is thick."

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: TexasGirl on March 29, 2014, 10:25:38 PM
This is what I got out of it:
I am not surprised in the lack of communication. I am not surprised that citizens are doing alot of the digging.

Most of the SAR groups are volunteer as it is. This thing is huge. I have not heard of other agencies coming in to help.

and..... "be self-reliant and know your community and have a plan; do not depend on government to help you in a crisis. The red tape is thick."

Cedar

At the Bastrop forest fire here in Texas, FEMA waltzed in and said the VFD's had to go home because they weren't paid professionals.  In Rural Texas, these guys are our only firemen, they are well trained, and do an incredible job.  It was very frustrating as the FEMA approved firefighters lost ground without the VFD boots on the ground.

One day later, another fire began in NE Texas, 15,000 acres, but when FEMA showed up, the county sheriff ran them off.  The volunteers along side bath Texas and Louisiana forest service fire crews did just fine without FEMA.

~TG
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: endurance on March 30, 2014, 08:45:30 AM
At the Bastrop forest fire here in Texas, FEMA waltzed in and said the VFD's had to go home because they weren't paid professionals.  In Rural Texas, these guys are our only firemen, they are well trained, and do an incredible job.  It was very frustrating as the FEMA approved firefighters lost ground without the VFD boots on the ground.

One day later, another fire began in NE Texas, 15,000 acres, but when FEMA showed up, the county sheriff ran them off.  The volunteers along side bath Texas and Louisiana forest service fire crews did just fine without FEMA.

~TG
FEMA doesn't actually take over a fire.  A type one or type two incident management team takes over once the local type three or type four team is overwhelmed and can't handle the complexity of the fire.  Once in place, they may use the local resources that are qualified.  That means that if you're going to use an engine, it needs to have a certain capacity for water, hose, gallons per minute, etc.  It also means that the people on the engine have certain training.  They have to pass the pack test at the arduous duty rating, they have to have passes S-130 & S-190 successfully and there needs to be a qualified engine boss (another set of classes including S-290).  Odds are that's why the local resources couldn't be used.  They didn't have wildland training or an engine boss qualified person for the engine.  S-130 & S-190 can be taken on line.  The rest of the classes are available at very low cost, reimbursable by federal grants most of the time, throughout the year.  Why are they necessary?  Because wildland firefighting is nothing like structural firefighting and people who don't know the difference die.  Heck, with all the training in the world people still die, but there's an attempt to minimize it. 

While I'm sure the locals felt left out, it's a system designed to save lives.  The ICS seems like a cumbersome tool, but it's designed to orchestrate control over dangerous and dynamic scenes by putting the folks with the right skills in charge.  On most fires that involves meteorology, logistics, federal contracting, planning, and operations; things that the local VFDs may have no expertise in at all.  The locals always have a choice, but they usually come begging for aid when thing get over 1,000 acres.  Very few local communities have the resources they need for a larger incident.

As for the mudslide stuff, I don't know enough about it to know what the local issues are.  I know it was just on our local news that 12 National Guardsman were just flown up there to help in the rescue and recovery operation, but I don't know what their specialties were.
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 30, 2014, 07:04:42 PM
Live Update http://www.kirotv.com/videos/news/kiro-live-event-1/vt6Gk/

21 confirmed fatalities, only 16 have been positively ID'd.
After review and analysis, geologists have determined the slide area is about 300 acres

http://www.kirotv.com/news/ap/general/photos-found-at-slide-site-missing-number-drops/nfNs5/
I am surprised that Marty's, Harry's, King County etc dogs are not on this.

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: TexasGirl on March 31, 2014, 12:43:01 AM
FEMA doesn't actually take over a fire. 

Well, FEMA, or whoever was designated as "federal officials", made the local firefighters "stand down".  It was all over the news that day, actually more than one day.  I've quickly looked through a couple of the TV news archives and apparently it's too old to still be there.  I did find one still on Infowars...  starts about 2:15 into the video.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzj1K1CRGgA
 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzj1K1CRGgA)

~TG
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: endurance on March 31, 2014, 08:15:35 AM
Well, FEMA, or whoever was designated as "federal officials", made the local firefighters "stand down".  It was all over the news that day, actually more than one day.  I've quickly looked through a couple of the TV news archives and apparently it's too old to still be there.  I did find one still on Infowars...  starts about 2:15 into the video.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzj1K1CRGgA
 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzj1K1CRGgA)

~TG
I'm not saying they weren't told to go home.  If they didn't have the qualifications required to operate on a federal fire, they should go home.  Why should the feds be on the hook for people who haven't taken the time to receive the proper training and pass the fitness test?  They're a liability on a fire.  Hopefully they've remedied this since and will be prepared for the next big one.  This is why our department requires everyone to complete ICS 100, 200, & 700 along with S-130 & S-190 for every member. 

With the exception of the field day, S-130 & S-190 can be completed on-line http://training.nwcg.gov/courses/130190faq.html (http://training.nwcg.gov/courses/130190faq.html) 

The higher qualifications, like firefighter I (squad boss), take going to a wildfire academy and completing a taskbook.  Once that is completed, they the higher qualifications like crewboss and engine boss can be completed with additional courses and taskbooks.  If all this seems like too much trouble, try the chaos of a fire with preventable injuries and fatalities on it.  Local resources are great and can make protecting a community a lot easier, but if the locals aren't trained to work with the same standards under the same management system as others, they're a liability.
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 31, 2014, 07:03:19 PM
Number of missing from WA landslide revised down from 30 to 22

SR 530 Slide Area Missing Person List
Names Confirmed by Snohomish County Sheriff’s Office

Arlington - The Snohomish County Sheriff’s Office Major Crimes Unit has provided the following list of missing people today. The release of information is limited to name, age and city of residence. Detectives have carefully reviewed each of these cases based on available information and conversations with family members. It is presumed that the people on this list are missing in connection with the landslide. Anyone who should not be on this list is asked to call the Sheriff’s Office tip line immediately at (425) 388-3845.

The Snohomish County Sheriff’s Office will continue to work closely with the Snohomish County Medical Examiner’s Office and will update this list as new information is made available.

NAME AGE CITY

1. Dequiletts, Ronald M. 52 Arlington and Bothell
2. Durnell, Thomas M. 55 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
3. Gullikson, Bonnie J. 91 SR 530 NE, Arlington
4. Gustafson, Mark J. 54 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
5. Hadaway, Steven N. 53 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
6. Halstead, Jerry L. 74 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
7. Halstead, Gloria J. 67 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
8. Harris, Denver P. 13 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
9. Harris, Steve 52 Arlington
10. Harris, Theresa 52 Arlington
11. Miller, Larry 58 Arlington
12. Miller, Sandra 64 Arlington
13. Regelbrugge, Molly K. 44 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
14. Ruthven, Katie 35 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
15. Ruthven, Wyatt 4 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
16. Satterlee, Thom 64 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
17. Satterlee, Mary 61 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
18. Slauson, Lon E. 59 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
19. Spillers, Billy 30 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
20. Spillers, Brooke 2 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
21. Webb, Delaney M. 19 Steelhead Dr., Arlington (alternate address is Marysville)
22. Mangual, Jovan E. 13 Steelhead Dr., Arlington

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on March 31, 2014, 07:08:36 PM
and right on the heels of that report... they just found three more bodies.

Death toll from WA state landslide rises to 27 after rescue workers locate 3 more bodies, official says

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: logbuilder on March 31, 2014, 08:09:12 PM
This is just awful.  Do any TSP people live near there?

I live in Darrington.
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Tactical Hamster on April 03, 2014, 12:17:20 PM
There are alot of people here in the Santa Cruz mountains that live in houses in much more obvious mud slide danger. Where the houses are built right on the sometimes unstable hillsides. I dont get it, it is a fairly obvious risk, we have lost homes and lives to these - in comparison - littler mud slides in years past.

Unfortunately, that is the case in so many places. The east coast with hurricanes, the midwest with tornados and the west with earthquakes. When people plant they have to face the consequences of the area, whether seen or not. We are all at the mercy of the environment.
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on April 07, 2014, 09:07:30 AM
Death toll from Washington landslide reaches 33
http://bnowire.com/inbox/?id=2301

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on April 08, 2014, 06:31:02 PM
Death toll from Washington landslide reaches 35

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on April 09, 2014, 09:27:24 PM
Death toll from Washington landslide rises to 36
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/09/us/washington-landslide-death-toll/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on April 11, 2014, 09:12:58 PM
A friend just send this to me. The slider thing is ..wow..
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-26/washington-mudslide/5346460

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: mountainmoma on April 11, 2014, 10:29:51 PM
That realy shows the devastation
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: endurance on April 12, 2014, 07:25:34 AM
Thanks for posting, Cedar. The 1999 Corps report was so telling. Hopefully some folks out there living in high risk areas are reading the same article and taking a look around.
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Dainty on May 16, 2014, 12:35:07 AM
Kudos to the Arlington city for potentially avoiding a secondary complication of contaminated water.

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20140515/NEWS01/140519362/1004/Water-source-back-to-normal-

"the city replaced its primary water supply with water from the Snohomish County Public Utility District for more than a month, at a cost that could run into the six figures. The reason: fear that contamination from the Oso mudslide would leech into the city's well water...

Testing of the river in the days after the slide showed...levels of antimony, arsenic, chromium and lead that were above state and federal limits for drinking water. That could have contaminated the city's drinking water had the well been active..."


I really like seeing an example of precautionary measures. During a time when the crisis at hand was overwhelming, some smart people looked ahead at what might make it even worse and took the safe, preventative route. There was only a possibility that the river might contaminate the well, but they decided the risk wasn't worth it. This is the sort of "boring" stuff we usually don't hear about, because - nothing happened. Which is kinda the point of preparedness, IMO. You WANT your course through SHTF to be the boring, safe solution whenever possible.

I just hope they don't pay too dearly for it!
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on May 22, 2014, 05:45:33 PM
Death toll from Washington state landslide rises to 42 after another body is recovered - sheriff's office

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on July 22, 2014, 08:39:22 PM
Last body found from Washington landslide that killed 43
http://www.bnowire.com/2014/07/22/last-body-found-from-washington-landslide-that-killed-43/

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Smurf Hunter on July 23, 2014, 08:11:41 AM
Did you read that they attributed the slide to rain fall and erosion?

Who knew!?  :o
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: d3nni5 on November 20, 2014, 07:52:17 AM


Did anyone see the NOVA episode last night on this?   "Killer Landslides".   It discussed the Oso, WA slide at great length.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/earth/killer-landslide.html

Went into some of the science behind what caused it (basically too much rain, type of soil, etc etc) and some of the science they can use to help predict when slides are going to happen.   Some cool laser and radar devices they can setup to watch a suspected area and send out evacuation notices, close roads, etc right before it happens.

This slide at Oso was odd in the way it behaved according the the geologists they had on the program.   It liquefied and "ran out" more than slides of similar makeup.   

Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on November 20, 2014, 08:58:07 AM
I will have to watch it MSP.. thanks.

Cedar
Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: d3nni5 on November 20, 2014, 09:04:31 AM
I will have to watch it MSP.. thanks.

Cedar

Interesting side note, the USGS testing site for this research is in Oregon.   A big flume they have setup to mock up slides and test.   You folks out there may know where it is.

Title: Re: Snohomish County, Washington
Post by: Cedar on November 20, 2014, 09:08:39 AM
Interesting side note, the USGS testing site for this research is in Oregon.   A big flume they have setup to mock up slides and test.   You folks out there may know where it is.

I don't. I will have to do some asking around. I have a couple friends who are geologists (and I am taking them fossil hunting one day).

Cedar