The Survival Podcast Forum

Farm, Garden and The Land => Live Stock, Critters and Aquaculture => Topic started by: archer on January 22, 2018, 09:07:31 AM

Title: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 22, 2018, 09:07:31 AM
 The local game and anglers club works with the local salmon hatchery to get salmon eggs to distribute through the local streams/etc in our area.
I have setup 2 salmon hatching buckets in the creek that runs through my property. On Tuesday, I'll get 5000+ coho salmon eggs. Looks like it will take 2 weeks for the salmon to hatch and get large enough to swim away.

I'll post pics shortly.

Some info on coho salmon spawning from wiki:
The eggs hatch in the late winter or early spring after six to seven weeks in the redd. Once hatched, they remain mostly immobile in the redd during the alevin life stage, which lasts for 6–7 weeks. Alevin no longer have the protective egg shell, or chorion, and rely on their yolk sacs for nourishment during growth. The alevin life stage is very sensitive to aquatic and sedimental contaminants. When the yolk sac is completely resorbed, the alevin leaves the redd. Young coho spend one to two years in their freshwater natal streams, often spending the first winter in off-channel sloughs, before transforming to the smolt stage. Smolts are generally 100–150 mm (3.9–5.9 in) and as their parr marks fade and the adult's characteristic silver scales start to dominate. Smolts migrate to the ocean from late March through July. Some fish leave fresh water in the spring, spend summer in brackish estuarine ponds, and then return to fresh water in the fall. Coho salmon live in salt water for one to three years before returning to spawn. Some precocious males, known as "jacks", return as two-year-old spawners. Spawning males develop kypes, which are strongly hooked snouts and large teeth.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 22, 2018, 05:05:27 PM
A bucket:
(https://aedra.com/~sotto/tmp/salmon/salmon-2.jpg)

The 2 buckets in the creek:
(https://aedra.com/~sotto/tmp/salmon/salmon-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Cedar on January 22, 2018, 06:49:16 PM
This is so.cool Archer

Cedar
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 22, 2018, 08:10:01 PM
thx. it is...
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Cedar on January 22, 2018, 08:20:17 PM
I have only seen it in aquariums, not in an actual stream. I will be happy to watch your project and see the difference.

Cedar
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: fritz_monroe on January 23, 2018, 05:17:21 AM
Very cool project.  I'll be watching for updates.

I've always heard that salmon return to the stream where they hatched.  Do you currently have any salmon in your creek now?  Do you know if they will come all the way back to your property?
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 23, 2018, 08:26:10 AM
Very cool project.  I'll be watching for updates.

I've always heard that salmon return to the stream where they hatched.  Do you currently have any salmon in your creek now?  Do you know if they will come all the way back to your property?

neighbours said there were salmon in my stream before the downhill neighbour messed up the creek by illegally moving it.
the salmon that survive should return in 1 to 3 years to spawn
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 23, 2018, 01:54:05 PM
The eggs are in the buckets!
(https://aedra.com/~sotto/tmp/salmon/salmon-0123181240.jpg)
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Cedar on January 23, 2018, 02:11:21 PM
What is the egg count?

Cedar
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 23, 2018, 03:03:54 PM
What is the egg count?

Cedar

the hatchery put about 6000 eggs in each sack, so 6000 eggs in each bucket since i have 2 buckets.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Cedar on January 23, 2018, 03:09:56 PM
When I was helping harvest eggs and fertilizing (and pressurizing) them.... Then releasing fry into a lake via a tanker truck, the man I was helping said 10% would grow to catchable size... How many could return to your Creek?

Cedar
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 23, 2018, 03:54:36 PM
When I was helping harvest eggs and fertilizing (and pressurizing) them.... Then releasing fry into a lake via a tanker truck, the man I was helping said 10% would grow to catchable size... How many could return to your Creek?

Cedar

10% could mean that 1200 salmon come back to the creek in a few years.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Mr. Bill on January 23, 2018, 04:04:31 PM
the hatchery put about 6000 eggs in each sack, so 6000 eggs in each bucket since i have 2 buckets.

"About"?  You didn't count them?
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Cedar on January 23, 2018, 04:21:43 PM
I didn't know if salmon had the same survival rate as rainbow trout.

Cedar
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 23, 2018, 04:44:44 PM
"About"?  You didn't count them?

it started to rain.... i did not want to ruin my hairdo..
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: redrider on January 24, 2018, 11:53:09 AM
This is exciting!

So... about the first week of February?

rr
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 24, 2018, 02:21:48 PM
had to move the buckets to the side of the stream, we received 1" of rain last night and the stream has more water moving thru it.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 25, 2018, 09:00:46 AM
Well, i am going to look at a different way to do this next year. The water flow in the stream changes and the pipes get cut off.. I just had to go move them again.
I'll look at some type of pump or something to get the water into some container on the bank. Maybe a ramp pump. Or electric pump.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Cedar on January 25, 2018, 12:26:14 PM
What about a diversion pipe like for water power?

Cedar
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 25, 2018, 03:39:36 PM
What about a diversion pipe like for water power?

Cedar

an idea.. hmm... with the rain coming more, i'm going to be out playing in the creek a lot for the next two weeks
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 25, 2018, 03:44:14 PM
So, for those interested, here is how they know when to hatch:

Eggs require 725 Temperature units (TU) to hatch.
1 TU = 1 deg F over 32F per day
So with the water temp of 39F in the bucket for a day, that is 7 TU/day.

The hatchery said they were at 603 TUs when they gave them to me. My creek today was 46F, so it should take 6-7 days to get to 725 TUs.
The hatchlings leave the bucket when they get to 1300TU and the yolk sac is dissolved on their chin and the water temp is above 45.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: redrider on January 26, 2018, 07:14:05 AM
So cool!

Thanks for keeping us posted.

Eagerly awaiting the next developments.

rr
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 26, 2018, 08:58:58 AM
grumble, one of the buckets has low flow through, bet there is a piece of debris in the pipe. time to get cold and wet at lunch clearing it out.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Cedar on January 26, 2018, 09:20:19 PM
Look at Goodwill for wetsuits. Just got one for SP for $7, and it looks brand new. That and a pair of hip waders sound good.

Cedar
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 27, 2018, 07:03:58 AM
hmm, good idea..
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 28, 2018, 05:40:13 PM
So, on day 5, total TU's so far is 672. The eggs need 725 TU's to hatch. Water temp has been around 46, so if the water temperature stays the same, they should hatch around day 9, Feb 1st.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: redrider on January 29, 2018, 08:37:16 AM
That's earlier than you initially thought, isn't it?

I keep visualizing the eggs with a big clock in there that counts TU's. ::)

rr
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 29, 2018, 10:19:34 AM
i was told 1 to 2 weeks to hatch, so it's in sync with that.

Now I'll just be doing better if the creek would be consistent. The on/off rain we are getting is changing the creek which adjusts the flow. this am the output pipes were just trickling but the buckets were full (at least the eggs did not dry out). The creek went down a little from yesterday so the flow into the pipes were reduced. I'm considering getting a small HF pump to pump the water into the buckets...
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 30, 2018, 01:33:38 PM
Day 7. 702 TUs logged, and I just saw the 1st salmon fry hatching.

I was worried because of the amount of silt getting into the buckets due to the rain.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Cedar on January 30, 2018, 01:56:38 PM
Congrats fish papa.

Cedar
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 30, 2018, 02:26:22 PM
thx.. i'll get pictures as more hatch
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Morning Sunshine on January 30, 2018, 04:35:35 PM
yes.  pictures.  Proud papas need to post pictures.  12000 pictures.  and names.  and birth weights. 
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 30, 2018, 04:45:51 PM
yes.  pictures.  Proud papas need to post pictures.  12000 pictures.  and names.  and birth weights. 

sure. pics are coming as soon as they mostly hatched. birth weights are <1 a salmon eggs weight
Names:
johny 1
suzie 1
johny 2
suzie 2
johny 3
suzie 3
johny 4
suzie 4
johny 5
suzie 5
johny 6
suzie 6
johny 7
suzie 7
johny 8
suzie 8
johny 9
suzie 9
johny 10
suzie 10
johny 11
suzie 11
johny 12
suzie 12
johny 13
suzie 13
johny 14
suzie 14
johny 15
suzie 15
....
johny 5990
suzie 5990
johny 5991
suzie 5991
johny 5992
suzie 5992
johny 5993
suzie 5993
johny 5994
suzie 5994
johny 5995
suzie 5995
johny 5996
suzie 5996
johny 5997
suzie 5997
johny 5998
suzie 5998
johny 5999
suzie 5999
johny 6000
suzie 6000

Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Cedar on January 30, 2018, 05:13:01 PM
Ha!

Cedar
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Mr. Bill on January 30, 2018, 05:14:23 PM
I suspect some computer nerdery contributed to that post. 8)
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on January 30, 2018, 05:34:40 PM
I suspect some computer nerdery contributed to that post. 8)

gotta love 'seq'. at least i did not paste all 12000 names...
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Mr. Bill on January 31, 2018, 08:46:47 AM
gotta love 'seq'. at least i did not paste all 12000 names...

I figured I'd learn a new Linux thing that was originally written in like 1897...
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on February 01, 2018, 01:58:19 PM
Day 9. 730 TUs logged, I see more empty egg cases floating around. And a few fry halfway out. I assume the rest have swum below the egg holder.
I'll see if I can get some pics.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: redrider on February 02, 2018, 02:30:29 PM
Congratulations!

I've been away from the comp for a few days, glad to see things are going well.

I'd love to see pics.

rr
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on February 02, 2018, 03:51:13 PM
Congratulations!

I've been away from the comp for a few days, glad to see things are going well.

I'd love to see pics.

rr

hard to get pictures, the little buggers swim below the eggs into the rocks/pebbles in the bottom and hide.. but i'll see what i can do.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Cedar on February 02, 2018, 06:31:00 PM
Put a couple with their water into a,small jar, take their baby pics, and toss them back into their bucket. I have done that before.

Cedar
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: fritz_monroe on February 02, 2018, 07:53:22 PM
Day 9. 730 TUs logged, I see more empty egg cases floating around. And a few fry halfway out. I assume the rest have swum below the egg holder.
I'll see if I can get some pics.
So, will the babies eat the egg cases in the end?  Or do they just float down stream?

And I don't know any proud papa that can't get a good picture of his kids.

I suspect some computer nerdery contributed to that post. 8)
Gotta love for loops.

for i in `seq 1 6000`; do echo johnny$i; echo suzie$i; done;
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on February 03, 2018, 07:43:12 AM
Put a couple with their water into a,small jar, take their baby pics, and toss them back into their bucket. I have done that before.

Cedar
good idea!
So, will the babies eat the egg cases in the end?  Or do they just float down stream?

And I don't know any proud papa that can't get a good picture of his kids.
Gotta love for loops.

for i in `seq 1 6000`; do echo johnny$i; echo suzie$i; done;

so far, the babies still have a yolk sack under their chins. In a stream the the egg cases would float away, in the bucket, they just float in the current.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on February 04, 2018, 09:13:09 AM
 Day 11 - a lot more hatched!

2018/02/04
Day 11 - a lot more hatched!
Just checked the eggs, a lot more have hatched!
The temp of the water is 50F now. TU count is at 763.

The darker red spots are the salmon.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uxFjOMUmmkg/Wncw23BsfyI/AAAAAAAAAZM/x22anlwrWmYC491AwPWIJvt0hlzsiqu9gCLcBGAs/s320/salmon-eggs-0204180755.jpg)

Larger picture:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uxFjOMUmmkg/Wncw23BsfyI/AAAAAAAAAZM/x22anlwrWmYC491AwPWIJvt0hlzsiqu9gCLcBGAs/s1600/salmon-eggs-0204180755.jpg
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: fritz_monroe on February 04, 2018, 06:15:08 PM
Very cool.  Thanks for this thread.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Cedar on February 04, 2018, 06:40:04 PM
Awwwwwww... They are so cute... And salmon hued.

Cedar
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Applejack on February 04, 2018, 07:09:23 PM
That is very interesting. Maybe in a couple of years you can go fishing in the creek.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Morning Sunshine on February 04, 2018, 07:43:59 PM
fun stuff!
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on February 05, 2018, 09:04:02 AM
I guestimate that 2/3rd of the eggs are hatched. I moved the buckets back into the middle of the creek so they have a nice landing when they swim out.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on February 05, 2018, 03:56:43 PM
some pics:

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Q2qs64RoAGw/WnjgwLkGmRI/AAAAAAAAAZo/cBGQtfYbODsxlvbgkgscLvxWJr64A-tFgCLcBGAs/s320/0205181218.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0h2Q9KB-EIE/WnjgwGkfnuI/AAAAAAAAAZk/7rW2Xx_cUxcO4iX0OQA7BeG8OfxZ4TbpwCLcBGAs/s320/0205181214.jpg)
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Morning Sunshine on February 05, 2018, 04:07:43 PM
so the bright orange is the yolk sac?  And they eat from that for a few weeks?  Do they need any other nourishment?
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on February 05, 2018, 04:38:48 PM
so the bright orange is the yolk sac?  And they eat from that for a few weeks?  Do they need any other nourishment?
correct, the bright orange thing is the yolk sack. once they 'consume' that, hunger motivates them to leave the bucket thru the overflow pipe and they are off on their own!
i wonder if i'll get fathers day cards from any of them?
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Morning Sunshine on February 05, 2018, 04:51:11 PM
maybe they will return for dinner occasionally?  Christmas, Father's Day, etc.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on February 05, 2018, 05:20:45 PM
maybe they will return for dinner occasionally?  Christmas, Father's Day, etc.

;)
after they have spawned...
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Cedar on February 05, 2018, 05:38:02 PM
maybe they will return for dinner occasionally?  Christmas, Father's Day, etc.

+1. As guests of honor?

Cedar
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on February 05, 2018, 05:40:40 PM
+1. As guests of honor?

Cedar

sure... they would be quite honored.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on February 08, 2018, 10:30:13 AM
99% of the eggs are hatched, only a dozen or two to go. I expect they might be dead ones that have not turned white yet.
The TU count is at 831 as of this morning. At ~1300 they should be swimming away.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on February 12, 2018, 10:31:01 AM
Day 20: All the eggs are hatched and I removed the egg baskets from the buckets. I'll see if I can get some pics of the new salmon spawn.
TU is 889, 411 left to go to swimming away.


Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on February 13, 2018, 01:39:17 PM
Day 21, TU 493:
Just checked the salmon, they are hiding in among the rocks at the bottom of the buckets. It's hard to get a photo, I had to get a focused flash light to be able to see them.
Water temp has dropped to 40F due to the frost we have had the last 4 days. Stream water level has dropped 6" plus since the high point when we had rain.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Morning Sunshine on February 13, 2018, 02:38:40 PM
the ones that have already swum away - will they be okay in the cooler water?
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on February 13, 2018, 03:35:45 PM
the ones that have already swum away - will they be okay in the cooler water?


none should not have swum away yet according to the instructions I received and the TU count. And the water temp needs to be over 45 to swim away.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Morning Sunshine on February 13, 2018, 03:47:56 PM
Day 20: All the eggs are hatched and I removed the egg baskets from the buckets. I'll see if I can get some pics of the new salmon spawn.
TU is 889, 411 left to go to swimming away.

I thought you had said some had already swum away.

none should not have swum away yet according to the instructions I received and the TU count. And the water temp needs to be over 45 to swim away.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on February 13, 2018, 03:55:16 PM
I thought you had said some had already swum away.

ahh that was the # of TU (temperature units) left before they swim away. sorry i was clear as mud.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on February 21, 2018, 09:46:00 AM
temps have dropped due to the snow storm, so that is lowering the daily TU count. As of yesterday, day 28, the TUs were 975 recorded, 325 left.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on February 27, 2018, 08:43:29 AM
Day 35: 372 TU's left to go..
I looked into the buckets with a flashlight and I see little fish moving in the bottom..
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on March 05, 2018, 12:23:25 PM
Day 40. 215 TUs left.... Getting closer.. the cold weather (dropped down to 38) did not help. I still see them hanging out in the bottom of the buckets.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Cedar on March 05, 2018, 01:53:40 PM
They are doing ok though? No die off?

Cedar
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on March 05, 2018, 03:04:15 PM
i dont see any bodies. i see a few wagging their tails when i get a light and look it. i'll go look more this week.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Cedar on March 05, 2018, 03:48:41 PM
Wagging tails mean they are happy to see you.

Cedar
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on March 05, 2018, 04:22:15 PM
Wagging tails mean they are happy to see you.

Cedar

or just trying to stir up the mud to be able to breathe.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on March 05, 2018, 06:31:27 PM
just checked, they are still swimming and getting longer. about 3/4" now. much smaller egg sacks.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on March 08, 2018, 02:04:29 PM
Day 44, TU's counted: 1137. TU's left to go: 163
I can still see them swimming a little in the rocks. Getting close to the end. The weather is warming so that should speed things up.
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on March 19, 2018, 10:33:39 AM
Day 55! 20 TUs left! I took a light out yesterday and could see lots and lots of little 1" fish moving at the bottom. The instructions say that once the TU's are met, they will swim out when the water temp is over 45, it's 47-48, so they should be swimming out soon. I had to create a small damn in the creek to focus the water to go into the pipes.. Woohoo!
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on March 22, 2018, 02:21:28 PM
So I helped out the rest of the salmon still in the buckets escape to the wild today. I did noticed a lot of dead eggs at the bottom of one bucket, I'll have to see if I can improve the design to prevent the eggs falling thru the mesh and bunching up and rotting.

I'm looking forward to next year...
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: Mr. Bill on March 22, 2018, 02:36:32 PM
Yay, baby salmon!  Good luck in the big world!
Title: Re: Setting up for salmon eggs
Post by: archer on March 22, 2018, 03:05:46 PM
Yay, baby salmon!  Good luck in the big world!

yep!