Author Topic: Alternatives to casting or swaging?  (Read 5748 times)

Offline Orionblade

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Alternatives to casting or swaging?
« on: December 07, 2009, 03:00:10 PM »
With some tools I can certainly make the right diameter tubing for this to work, but the question remains - WOULD it work in a real gun?

Homemade Bullet

The idea is to use tubing and fill it with lead - i'd flux the inside of the tube. Then maybe swage or turn the bullet with a full profile tool on a lathe? I'm thinking either SUPER custom ammunition (maybe tungsten core or totally lead-free, that kind of thing) or post SHTF - where'd my bullet molds go? sort of situation.

Offline cohutt

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Re: Alternatives to casting or swaging?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2009, 04:46:38 PM »
Geez, I'll have to admit that's beyond the scope of my post shtf ambitions. 

I'd probably just lash a flat wedged shaped stone into a split stick and call it a day.

Offline Orionblade

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Re: Alternatives to casting or swaging?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2009, 12:37:01 AM »
*tee hee*

You have seen my signature line, right?

I aim for overkill - I think a fully functional starship kinda takes the cake.

In terms of terrestrial preps, all I need is security and power, and I can keep on keepin' on without any problems. I strive for the ultimate in flexibility, and my prep-conversion job (like Jack going full time with the TSP deal) is to set up a "make anything lab". We'll literally have every machine tool known to man, and be able to make anything. We'll make mostly prototypes and small runs of our in-house designs for random products from lighting to vehicles to  firearms, but also do contract work for one-offs and crazy stuff that nobody else will make for a customer. If you can make anything, and do it efficiently, then you can make at any given time at least one thing that someone will buy.

Since I have a mill with a soon-to-be-installed rotary table/indexing head, I could turn out titanium carbide bullets if I really wanted, but the question I really have is would something like this hold up in a rifle, or does the jacket need to be swaged around the whole projectile.


Offline CountryRootsCityJob

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Re: Alternatives to casting or swaging?
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2009, 09:58:13 AM »
Thats one crazy idea... I'd be willing to try it! (Assuming I could get it to the right size)
+1!

Offline Orionblade

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Re: Alternatives to casting or swaging?
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2009, 04:06:32 PM »
I'm thinking annealed copper tubing, and a series of swage dies and an arbor press.

I'd like to do some .45 ACP bullets like this - that would be pretty simple from .5 OD tubing. You could also go up from .25 or down from 3/8" (.375") to get to .311

*ponders even more*

Offline cohutt

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Re: Alternatives to casting or swaging?
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2009, 05:16:42 PM »







 ;D

Offline RipTombstone

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Re: Alternatives to casting or swaging?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2009, 12:41:03 PM »
I do like the mechanical brutality of Cohutts, but the ability to make jacketed bullets is cool. But is it necessary? If you have lead, you dont HAVE to jacket your bullets to eat and kill. You just jacket bullets to make them go faster and not lead the barrel.
So really, if you slow down your lead bullets so they dont lead, chances are you will also be conserving your powder supply as well, which is the practical thing to do.
Its still cool tho.
DM

Offline Orionblade

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Re: Alternatives to casting or swaging?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2009, 12:53:11 AM »
Why conserve powder when you can make all the black powder you want?

*nudge*

Where's my .45 ACP Black Powder handload data?!!!

:-p

Offline RipTombstone

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Re: Alternatives to casting or swaging?
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2009, 10:43:59 AM »
AAhh, the data. Hmmm. Well....
Actually its deer season now, and we have a foot of snow on the ground. Data will follow sometime in the next 12 mos.... ;D

RipT

Offline Orionblade

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Re: Alternatives to casting or swaging?
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2009, 03:03:54 PM »
Tee hee...

One quick question - did the black powder rounds cycle the action of the 1911?

I read an article a while ago, but the guy didn't seem to know what he was doing (didn't seem to have done black powder loads before).

*shrugs*

I might be deer hunting for the first time next sunday, will report back in another thread. Take pictures of the snow and post them - I long for someting falling from the sky that doesn't flow into my basement.

Offline RipTombstone

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Re: Alternatives to casting or swaging?
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2009, 06:32:58 PM »
From what I understand, these guys were shooting the 1911s in competition using black powder, so yes, they were cycling. I will try to get some loaded sometime after Christmas, and give it a try.

Deer season is done as of tonite. At least the Kansas rifle season is. I can get my Nebraska muzzleloader permit, and go get 2 more deer if I wanted to. Low priority at the moment, after the snow drifts today. Had about 3-4 ft drifts in spots, 4-12" everywhere else, and my legs hurt. Thats hard hunting when you have to walk in on them to push them out to other shooters. Worse yet when you got your deer last weekend, and cant shoot them when they pop up in front of you.
I got a nice buck last saturday, my wife got skunked with either fawns or bad to no shots on what shootable deer came her way, and my parents went 3 for 4 on their tags, all does/button bucks. We did get 2 deer, some rabbits and 1 pheasant today as well, but it was hard hard work.
RipT

Offline idelphic

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Re: Alternatives to casting or swaging?
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2009, 10:57:33 AM »
I'm still learning on the loading aspect.  I did cast and load some .40 Sunday.  It's the FIL's equipment so I have decent access to it when ever I need or want.  He and I have talked about the 'issue with leading' a few times.  As of yet on all of the cast loads he has done he has had no leading.  Either pistol or rifle.  Granted he is not max loading,..  but no issues.

He does have and some times uses gas checks,.. but othewise has not found a real need to do so.  I would be interested in figuring out to copper jacket,..  but at time point I don't know if its worth it for us.

I have heard of some using spent .22 cases for jacket / gas check material...  If I got into making jackets,.. it would have to be with simple equipment.  I can't say I'm going to have mill or a lathe to do that kind of work.

Offline CountryRootsCityJob

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Re: Alternatives to casting or swaging?
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2009, 12:12:59 PM »
From what I understand, these guys were shooting the 1911s in competition using black powder, so yes, they were cycling. I will try to get some loaded sometime after Christmas, and give it a try.

Wow... that actually sounds pretty fun!  You might have to start a new thread, but I definitely would like to know more about that!

Quote
Deer season is done as of tonite. At least the Kansas rifle season is. I can get my Nebraska muzzleloader permit, and go get 2 more deer if I wanted to... Worse yet when you got your deer last weekend, and cant shoot them when they pop up in front of you.
I got a nice buck last saturday, my wife got skunked with either fawns or bad to no shots on what shootable deer came her way, and my parents went 3 for 4 on their tags, all does/button bucks. We did get 2 deer, some rabbits and 1 pheasant today as well, but it was hard hard work.
RipT

Okay, now I'm jealous... I was out for two weeks and the only four legged critter I saw was two dogs (whose job it is to scare away the deer) and a few squirrels... I never had to worry about them "popping up in front of you."  <SIGH>  Well being the first year and time I've deer hunted, I suppose I have something to work upon for next year...

Offline cohutt

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Re: Alternatives to casting or swaging?
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2009, 04:00:47 PM »
I'm still learning on the loading aspect.  I did cast and load some .40 Sunday.  It's the FIL's equipment so I have decent access to it when ever I need or want.  He and I have talked about the 'issue with leading' a few times.  As of yet on all of the cast loads he has done he has had no leading.  Either pistol or rifle.  Granted he is not max loading,..  but no issues.

He does have and some times uses gas checks,.. but othewise has not found a real need to do so.  I would be interested in figuring out to copper jacket,..  but at time point I don't know if its worth it for us.
I have heard of some using spent .22 cases for jacket / gas check material...  If I got into making jackets,.. it would have to be with simple equipment.  I can't say I'm going to have mill or a lathe to do that kind of work.


You would need a swaging press- similar to a regular press but much more ft-lbs to swage the 22case around the lead core rod and then cut it off.  (No desire here. )

I can and do cast for almost all of my guns and have a shop full of lead put back.   It isn't practical to cast for my ARs, so I bought projos in quantity when they were cheaper and have a couple hundred lbs of mostly 55g Hornday's put back.

Offline idelphic

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Re: Alternatives to casting or swaging?
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2009, 04:21:56 PM »
Quote
You would need a swagging press

Cohutt -
From what I have seen of swagging presses, I have no interest.  I don't have the available funds to invest on it.  I have access to the casting and loading equipment for the rounds I shoot the most, so right now there is no need.