Author Topic: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:  (Read 5193 times)

Offline Carl

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Re: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2017, 09:55:29 AM »
  I think manufactures use NEW lead for consistency as it effects accuracy and expansion while re-loaders use cast bullets a manufacturer depends on consistency for how their bullets are poured,swagged,or ?? to insure bonding to jacket and expansion is also consistent.Though large volume operations can make for uniform metal recipes, a small caster tends to vary too much from batch to batch. I used materials from both types of operation though my favorite was BARNES bronze alloy for the SWAT guys as it was always consistent.

My two cents while operating PSK31 and communicating with a Ham radio operator in Memphis as I move screen to screen to add to this post.
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Offline The Professor

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Re: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2017, 02:33:14 PM »
I find this interesting, do you have a source that states the ammo manufacturers are having a hard time procuring lead? I was under the impression that the smelting plant made "new lead" and that most ammo manufacturers used "recycled lead" and therefore it was not a major impact as there is a good supply of recycled lead.

Other than an exerpt from a discussion with an Olin rep while partaking in an Intergalactic Kegger and enjoying a Body Shot from a disturbingly-dressed redheaded cowgirl (Leather Chaps, boots, halter, Cowboy Hat and G-string. . .disturbing in that she had no gunbelt. . .a blatant disregard for the atmosphere, all things considered).

I'm pretty sure that's what he said as he delved entirely too deeply into the whole engineering side of things.  Granted, I was a bit distracted at the time. . .the redhead had a friend.

I learned two things about myself that night. . .the first is that high-volume bullet-making is much more difficult than I thought, and the second that I can hold a rather copius amount of tequila in my belly button.

But that's another story, entirely.

The Professor
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Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2017, 02:36:43 PM »
Other than an exerpt from a discussion with an Olin rep while partaking in an Intergalactic Kegger and enjoying a Body Shot from a disturbingly-dressed redheaded cowgirl (Leather Chaps, boots, halter, Cowboy Hat and G-string. . .disturbing in that she had no gunbelt. . .a blatant disregard for the atmosphere, all things considered).

I'm pretty sure that's what he said as he delved entirely too deeply into the whole engineering side of things.  Granted, I was a bit distracted at the time. . .the redhead had a friend.

I learned two things about myself that night. . .the first is that high-volume bullet-making is much more difficult than I thought, and the second that I can hold a rather copius amount of tequila in my belly button.

But that's another story, entirely.

The Professor

Only the professor is able to digress to that from a conversation about metal composition.

Offline The Professor

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Re: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2017, 03:14:30 PM »
Only the professor is able to digress to that from a conversation about metal composition.

Sorry, I forgot to say that was this last SHOT Show (2017).  Even the memory of that discussion is a tad bid distracting.

The Professor
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Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2017, 03:20:42 PM »
Sorry, I forgot to say that was this last SHOT Show (2017).  Even the memory of that discussion is a tad bid distracting.

The Professor

Yeah, I see what you did there.   :beer:

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2017, 03:20:56 PM »
  I think manufactures use NEW lead for consistency as it effects accuracy and expansion while re-loaders use cast bullets a manufacturer depends on consistency for how their bullets are poured,swagged,or ?? to insure bonding to jacket and expansion is also consistent.

When i researched this when it first came up, most of the major US bullet manufacturers used lead from recycled auto batteries.  There were both economic and process reasons for doing this. That is, it was easier to use the recycled material than the new material from ore.   In fact, one of the bullet manufacturers had their plant just a few miles from the ore smelter that was closing but it didnt impact them at all because they exclusively used the recycled auto battery material provided by the same company.  I will see if I can find those those articles.  This said, the market has to be somewhat fungible and lead prices have been on an upswing lately.

Offline The Professor

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Re: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2017, 04:03:10 PM »
When i researched this when it first came up, most of the major US bullet manufacturers used lead from recycled auto batteries.  There were both economic and process reasons for doing this. That is, it was easier to use the recycled material than the new material from ore.   In fact, one of the bullet manufacturers had their plant just a few miles from the ore smelter that was closing but it didnt impact them at all because they exclusively used the recycled auto battery material provided by the same company.  I will see if I can find those those articles.  This said, the market has to be somewhat fungible and lead prices have been on an upswing lately.

Well, ultimately, even if they were rolling in appropriate material, it won't affect the window as will the military, political and economical factors will.  Warehouses are full, coffers aren't, buyer's aren't feeling the need to buy out of panic, right now and EVERYONE is trying to tread water.

This window won't last.  Colt has laid off a ton of workers, Olympic has closed it's doors, Remington closed it's Kentucky plant where they were making the Marlin guns.  Gander Mountain is filing bankruptcy and closing it's doors, allegedly because of the rapid decline of gun sales.

Massive Supply and No Demand equals GREAT OPPORTUNITY.

But, again, it won't last.  Things will flatten out, prices will plateau and start climbing back up here when the next major election cycle starts turning.

It's simply a window of opportunity if someone wishes to take advantage of it.

The Professor
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Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2017, 05:25:11 PM »
Massive Supply and No Demand equals GREAT OPPORTUNITY.

But, again, it won't last.  Things will flatten out, prices will plateau and start climbing back up here when the next major election cycle starts turning.

It's simply a window of opportunity if someone wishes to take advantage of it.

Yep, 100% agree.  It is hard to not see the opportunity when base ARs from major gun brands are selling for $410 (pre tax). 

Did look up the situation with lead for bullet manufacturers.  The smelter which closed was a primary one which turned ore into pure lead. Such a plant cant produce "small" runs of alloys cost effectively.  They have to concentrate on pure lead manufacture to make the economies of scale work. Bullet manufacturers primarily use cores of alloys (e.g. 90% lead 6% antimony, 4% tin). So it is cheaper to get the alloy from the recycling plants which can effectively do small batches exactly as needed.  Plus this allows bullet manufacturers to diversify suppliers thereby reducing risk to operations.  Since 99% of all lead is recycled (it is the easiest of all metals to recycle because of its density), the risk of not having US plant is minimal.  The 1% is easily imported in manufactured goods from Mexico and China each year.  Here is a statement from Sierra which summarizes this: https://sierrabulletsblog.com/2013/11/01/sierra-responds-how-will-the-closure-of-the-lead-smelting-plant-affect-sierra-bullets/

I was wrong about the sbove being a rebate war.  A buddy who owns a gun shop pointed out that most of those brands were from the same parent company.  He said he expects S&W, Ruger, and several others to respond this weekend.  He thinks we can see popular semi-auto handguns dropping from $500-$600 to $400.  He is trying to clear all second tier manufacturer handguns from inventory at cost to take advantage of the dealer incentives from the big guys.

Between that and the pencil barrel, it's l-i-g-h-t.

That is spot on.  I chose the QRC because of its lightness.  it is like 5.2 lbs so with a small konus red dot and 20 round mags it should be just over six pounds.  This is just about perfect for soneone of shorter status like my wife, especially with the smaller mag and folding stock.  Personally, I prefer my 20 inch hbar fixed stock despite its 8lb girth.

Offline ncjeeper

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Re: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2017, 08:13:24 PM »
  Gander Mountain is filing bankruptcy and closing it's doors, allegedly because of the rapid decline of gun sales.
Nobody bought guns from Gander because they were way over priced.
The early bird gets the worm.....But the second mouse gets the cheese.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2017, 05:44:52 PM »
I ordered some Singapore Military 5.56 from Bulk Ammo last night, apparently manufactured by Magtech in Brazil. The blurb said they are ultra particular about their ammo specs, requiring sealed primer pocket and case mouth, sealed 200rd poly bags with desiccant, and a steel ammo can sealing 1000rds. The cans are stored for 7 years in an air conditioned building and then replaced with a new production run. That seems like some serious overkill to me, but this is a country that makes you scrap a car when it's 10 years old, so maybe it's just the way they roll over there.

Edited to add the best part:  30 cents per round.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 07:35:07 PM by FreeLancer »
23:57:30

Offline chrisdfw

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Re: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2017, 05:56:25 PM »
Ugh.  I just couldn't take it anymore. I dont have a flattop AR so I just ordered a Bushmaster QRC.  galleryofguns.com has them on inventory reduction here: http://galleryofguns.com/Gallery/HotDeals.aspx?evt=Inventory%20Reduction%20Sale&brand=BushmasterIncluding taxes, dealer fees, etc. it comes in at $454.95 after $75 rebate.  And that includes Davidson's lifetime warranty: http://www.galleryofguns.com/about/terms.aspx.  It will be a good loaner rifle.

https://www.bushmaster.com/firearms/xm-15-qrc/16-optics-ready


I just ordered one too. Because, America!

these deals get down to where its almost the same price as building it myself... without all the work. I hardly will build a basic aR15, not worth the effort, saving the effort for special builds where I want it just a certain way at these prices.

Might order another on payday... and after that too

Offline Alan Georges

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Offline chad

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Re: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2017, 07:26:49 PM »
Fire sale....on guns and ammo..boys and girls... smoke'em if you got'em...

Offline iam4liberty

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Offline chad

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Re: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2017, 08:01:22 PM »
Apparently from the box image 00 buck is just perfect for both rabbits and house cats!




Holy s$ht, the progressives have taken over bullet manufacturing.. Ferrell cats maybe, cotton tail not so much.

Offline Alan Georges

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Re: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2017, 08:08:27 PM »
Apparently from the box image 00 buck is just perfect for both rabbits and house cats!
Look again at the proportions of the animals in the illustrations.  Wererabbits!  Werecats!   :tinfoily:  They could already be your neighbors!

I swear, there are times it seems like "Baofeng" is Cantonese for "hot mess."

Offline Carl

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Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2017, 11:05:02 AM »
This NRA article is pretty on point.  Might be worth sending to anyone on the fence to encourage them.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/5/9/6-guns-to-look-for-in-a-buyers-market/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=0517
6 Guns To Look For In a Buyer's Market

New shooting enthusiasts and first-time gun owners often have their interest in firearms sparked by one particular facet of the shooting sports. But once the gun bug bites, it's only natural to feel a desire to explore more shooting endeavors. Thanks to a current favorable climate when it comes to our 2nd Amendment rights, we have at long last returned to a buyer's marketplace. Dealers’ shelves are well-stocked with a variety of options at reasonable prices. This means now is a great time to try something new.

Each of the following guns will provide new shooters with important operational experience. Someone who understands how to run at least one gun in each of these categories will have a basic understanding of how to use just about every make and model that can be purchased at local outdoor retailers.

Offline NWPilgrim

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Re: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2017, 05:11:01 PM »
It is easy to get lulled into thinking these prices will be around for a long time and no hurry to replenish or build up supplies.  But the Professor is right that these are just the beginning of good deals but they won't last.  Probably for sure 3 months at least, maybe 6 months, but beyond that it could get iffy as surpluses get bought up and manufacturer cutbacks on production/staffing start rebalancing the supply.
There have always been times like this, and there will be again. Will we rise to the challenges or get run over?


Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:
« Reply #50 on: June 01, 2017, 09:41:18 PM »
Here come some handgun discounts and rebates.  For example S&W Shields down to $215 with rebate and Walther PPS down to $310 with rebate.






Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Why NOW is the time to buy AR's and 5.56x45 ammo:
« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2017, 05:26:31 PM »
FYI, my Bushmaster rebate came in last week.  That was pretty fast.

Also just a reminder that several of the rebates are ending July 31.  So if you are considering a $400 AR or other heavy discounted items, you might want to make a decision soon.

https://www.rkguns.com/dpms-panther-oracle-223-5-56-ar-15-rifle.html

LAST CHANCE TO GET A QUALITY AR-15 UNDER $400!
ORDERS MUST BE PLACED BY 7/31 TO QUALIFY!

« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 05:33:49 PM by iam4liberty »