Author Topic: Hurricane Maria  (Read 12746 times)

Offline Alan Georges

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2017, 09:53:09 PM »
Yes it would, Rita.  I can't take that kind of time off work these days, but when things settle down in a few years, who knows?  (Of course, this kind of thing is just as likely to happen in my own back yard, so then I could skip the whole travel part.  How... convenient. :P)

Offline Cedar

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2017, 08:00:42 AM »
After a week of misery, millions of Puerto Ricans are still suffering in primitive conditions without power, water or enough fuel. About 97% of the island's 3.4 million residents are still in the dark Wednesday, one week after Hurricane Maria slammed into the Puerto Rico, Gov. Ricardo Rosselló said. About half of the residents do not have running water.

And there's nowhere enough food to go around. In the town of Utuado, Lydia Rivera has started to ration crackers and drink rainwater to keep her two grandchildren alive.
://lite.cnn.io/en/article/h_ec2650ae44b39eab44ce917833dea821

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Offline Cedar

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2017, 09:52:59 PM »
The Jones Act is an obscure, century-old law that requires all goods ferried between U.S. ports to be carried on ships built, owned and operated by Americans. Trump has not waived the rule, though he said Wednesday that he is "thinking about" it. He noted the shipping industry opposes a waiver.

Trump did suspend the law after Hurricanes Harvey and Irma, which struck Texas and Florida, to allow ships to move gas from the north while refineries and pipelines in the south were shut down. But thus far he has not waived it for Puerto Ri

Cedar.

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2017, 08:33:45 AM »
I heard this morning the Jones act has been waived for at least two weeks.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2017, 08:51:41 AM »
I heard this morning the Jones act has been waived for at least two weeks.

Yep it did. Not sure of the expiration date though. But why was it over a week to do this for Puerto Rico, and 24 hrs for Texas and Florida?

Cedar

Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2017, 09:57:27 AM »
Yep it did. Not sure of the expiration date though. But why was it over a week to do this for Puerto Rico, and 24 hrs for Texas and Florida?

Cedar

Because Texas was closer and has electoral college votes and Puerto Rico does not ?

Offline bigbear

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2017, 12:43:58 PM »
I heard this morning the Jones act has been waived for at least two weeks.

A little more on the Jones Act...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/09/28/trump-just-lifted-shipping-restrictions-for-puerto-rico-but-the-real-challenge-just-started/?utm_term=.96067c6e44da

Is the answer to the delay question directly related to a campaign promise? 

Quote
“The Jones Act is very important to our company and America’s shipping industry,” he said. “If America wants to have seafarers, the Jones Act is essential. Otherwise, the jobs would go offshore like they’ve done in so many industries.”

Quote
Crowley said that waiving the Jones Act for Florida after Hurricane Irma hit there did little other than give some business to foreign flag vessels.

An Atlantic article:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/09/jones-act-waiver-puerto-rico-trump/541398/

The real reason it was lifted for Harvey and Irma: petrodollars.
Quote
The government issued a short-term Jones Act waiver after Harvey and Irma, but initially hesitated after Maria. It said the earlier waiver was necessary because without tankers of fuel reaching the Gulf Coast, gas prices would have skyrocketed.

Ultimately here's where the Atlantic seems to land:
Quote
But the president seems to have bowed to the political reality that issuing a waiver was politically popular. The problem facing mainland politicians is that there is a great deal of public pressure to show effort to help Puerto Rico, even as many of the steps under consideration don’t have clear, immediate impacts. The result has been a steady flow of arguments that Trump waive the Jones Act, often with little explanation of what immediate impact the step would have.

Quote
The Jones Act is a classic protectionist law, put in place to prop up the American maritime industry. That makes it appealing to politicians like Trump, who were elected in part on promises of protectionism...  For those fighting to dismantle the act, especially, the disaster in Puerto Rico offers a rare opportunity for political change.

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2017, 06:13:23 PM »
Yep it did. Not sure of the expiration date though. But why was it over a week to do this for Puerto Rico, and 24 hrs for Texas and Florida?

Cedar

this article from the WSJ makes it sound like getting supplies TO the island is not an issue.  https://www.wsj.com/articles/puerto-rico-port-reopens-but-relief-distribution-remains-slow-1506446137

Quote
Authorities have reopened Puerto Rico’s biggest port but say efforts to speed relief supplies to the island devastated by Hurricane Maria are being hampered by heavy damage to roads, computer systems and other critical infrastructure.

Cargo ships carrying supplies from the mainland U.S. began arriving at San Juan’s port on Saturday. But distribution of water, food and temporary shelter is building slowly, federal officials and private companies taking part in the relief efforts said, with thousands of shipping containers waiting for transport at the port.

the boats with supplies are there.  The problem is 1) ports damaged 2) machines needed to offload the supplies from the boats were damaged 3) roads and trucks are inoperable meaning that even when the stuff is unloaded from the boats, it cannot go far from the ports, leaving the inland areas without supplies.


Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2017, 07:29:19 PM »
Royal Caribbean Cancels Cruise to Help Hurricane Maria Victims


Quote
Royal Caribbean has cancelled one its scheduled cruises to aid a devastated Puerto Rico in the wake of Hurricane Maria, which hit the island last week.

On Tuesday, the cruise line declared it was cancelling the September 30 leg of the Adventures of the Seas trip. The ship is capable of holding 3,800 people.

The vessel arrived in the Puerto Rican capital, San Juan, on Wednesday and will take stranded residents to Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

The ship will also head to St. Croix and St. Thomas to deliver water, medical supplies and other items. Both U.S. Virgin Islands were hit by Hurricanes Maria and Irma. The Royal Caribbean ship will return to Puerto Rico next week.

Other cruise lines, such as Norweigan and Carnival, are also providing aid.


Offline Ms. Albatross

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2017, 07:37:36 PM »
3) roads and trucks are inoperable meaning that even when the stuff is unloaded from the boats, it cannot go far from the ports, leaving the inland areas without supplies.

I saw this picture on Facebook of a road in Puerto Rico.


Offline Cedar

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2017, 08:25:04 PM »
If they can drop elephants from planes, why can't they drop supplies to these areas? There is over 9,800 shipping containers being held up until today? Huge helicopters? Columbia helicopter has huge double blade helis to move heavy payloads, they can't be the only company that does this.

Cedar


Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2017, 08:44:07 PM »
My boss did hear from her mom, and they are safe with only a little damage to the roof of their home.

No power yet, and they probably won't have it for months, but there was a portable cell tower (and a generator, I believe) set up in a nearby town so that people could use their phones and let family know they were okay.

Offline Carl

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Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2017, 01:30:20 PM »
  San Juan mayor not happy:Outraged San Juan mayor tears into Trump admin over Puerto Rico comments: ‘Not a good news story’

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/09/29/outraged-san-juan-mayor-tears-into-trump-admin-over-puerto-rico-comments-not-a-good-news-story/

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #44 on: September 29, 2017, 01:36:48 PM »
If they can drop elephants from planes, why can't they drop supplies to these areas? There is over 9,800 shipping containers being held up until today? Huge helicopters? Columbia helicopter has huge double blade helis to move heavy payloads, they can't be the only company that does this.

Cedar
There are a lot of variables in using aerial delivery.  First of all, the ramp space in PR is probably handling cargo like crazy.  So configuring equipment for heavy drop (fixed wing parachute drops) on the island is probably gonna be hard.  You could drop supplies from CONUS, but then the supplies already in PR are not available for putting in the bundles and pallets being rigged stateside.  Also, some one needs to control the drop zone, which is a really big field to ensure people and structures are not squished.  Its really frustrating when an area has one intact building an a 6,000 pound pallet lands on it at 25 feet per second.  So you need to validate where it needs to go, the location, verified that it can receive it and put a controller on the ground that can talk to the aircraft.

For helo, you have more consideration.  Truly large helicopters don't travel well and preferably move long distances by ship.  The military could get helos on the island using other means.  They could use a carrier as a Lilly pad partway between the mainland and Puerto Rico (though I am not sure they can do it with only one refueling hop, I don't know enough about the ranges).  Only a handful of helos can mid-air refuel (and some are already there), so it is not a valid solution.  Finally, some helos can be moved inside a fixed wing aircraft like a C-17 or C-5.  However, you are now competing with relief supplies for space on the fixed wing.  Also, if we move say and Army aviation brigade to the island it will take a huge amount of aircraft space and those aircraft will consume an EPIC amount of fuel.

All these issues can be worked through, but it takes time and effort.  It is definitely not simple. 

Offline Cedar

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2017, 01:41:16 PM »
Thanks Chem +1

Cedar

Offline Alan Georges

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2017, 05:14:27 PM »
Thanks for the knowledgeable word, Chem.

Here's a brief look at the medical situation in PR, now that the power's been out two weeks: https://www.wired.com/story/puerto-ricos-slow-motion-medical-disaster/

Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #47 on: September 30, 2017, 06:35:04 AM »
   President Trump responds to San Juans mayor: (excerpt from twitter messages)

The Mayor of San Juan, who was very complimentary only a few days ago, has now been told by the Democrats that you must be nasty to Trump.
...Such poor leadership ability by the Mayor of San Juan, and others in Puerto Rico, who are not able to get their workers to help. They....
...want everything to be done for them when it should be a community effort. 10,000 Federal workers now on Island doing a fantastic job.
The military and first responders, despite no electric, roads, phones etc., have done an amazing job. Puerto Rico was totally destroyed.
I will be going to Puerto Rico on Tuesday with Melania. Will hopefully be able to stop at the U.S. Virgin Islands (people working hard).

Link to story:

 http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/09/30/trump-responds-to-san-juan-mayor-after-she-excoriates-him-for-government-response-in-puerto-rico/

Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #48 on: September 30, 2017, 07:22:00 AM »
Ugh.  Trump seriously needs to stop tweeting.

It's just so embarrassing.


Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #49 on: September 30, 2017, 08:38:27 AM »
Ugh.  Trump seriously needs to stop tweeting.

It's just so embarrassing.

The mayor is under a strain and expect 'instant' action and that can not happen even in Louisiana ,Texas,Florida,New Jersey ,or Mississippi in past and resent history and the supplies were in short supply plus the logistics of getting over 10,000 men and supplies made for some delay as even the airport was non usable for 4 days after the storm. Things with government just do not happen instantly but with or without Pres Trump being there (what can he do anyway?) the level of response was far better than past storms and surprised me with how thin services are stretched with the area of Texas and Florida already being address with supply and recovery personnel.

  The Pres would be better to address LIVE the nation and say that we have moved as fast as we can what men and supplies as were available and a large number of the men and supplies were rerouted from the damage control in the gulf region of the US. The logistics of such a move are enormous.
Few people realize the effort of personnel to help Puerto Rico while our relief effort continues within US states.The response began before the storm hit and yet people want to fault the President.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2017, 09:46:00 AM »
At 20 days post-Maria:
- more Puerto Ricans got water and rationed food on Friday as an aid bottleneck began to ease.

- Telecommunications are back for about 30 per cent of the island, nearly half of the supermarkets have reopened, at least for reduced hours, and about 60 per cent of the petrol stations are pumping.

- remain desperate for necessities, most urgently water, 10 days after the September 20 hurricane.

Cedar

Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2017, 11:14:22 AM »
  That is fast work,under the circumstances...it took aide and food/water over 12 days to reach many areas after Katrina hit the gulf coast and wiped out many towns that never made the new as they were all busy in New Orleans. And a look on Google Earth will show much of the area has yet to be rebuilt there and even in New Jersey. Sayin' it and doin' it are just not the same thing.

Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2017, 12:25:54 PM »
I talked to my son today, and he said there's a chance he might be deployed to Puerto Rico.

Fine with me.  It's better than a lot of other places he could go, and they could use the help.

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2017, 04:00:08 PM »
An interview with a Puerto Rican, air force full bird who is working the relief effort. His take is that it is a massive distribution problem.

 http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_59ce5906e4b0f3c468060dee

Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2017, 04:42:44 PM »
An interview with a Puerto Rican, air force full bird who is working the relief effort. His take is that it is a massive distribution problem.

 http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_59ce5906e4b0f3c468060dee

Sounds like the mayor should stop complaining and encourage people to work on temporary road repair,
so food and fuel can move and drivers can move the trucks to areas in need. They do report 30 to 40 % power is
restored and 30% plus cell coverage with some portable and some repaired towers, but is is a big mess.

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2017, 04:59:04 PM »
The US Wasp, an amphibious assault ship with a large contingent of helicopters, is enroute. That is a distribution solution. It carries a LOT of fuel and the maintenance for its aircraft and has housing for all its personnel. Good solution, though it has to steam all the way there.

 http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/09/30/pentagon-adds-uss-wasp-to-puerto-rico-hurricane-response.html

Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #56 on: October 02, 2017, 04:40:36 AM »
  After all the complaining from one mayor,we hear a different view of US response to Maria devastation:

Puerto Rican mayor reveals truth behind San Juan mayor’s attack on Trump — and it explains a lot

The mayor of a city that directly borders San Juan, Puerto Rico, is casting doubt on the claims of San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulín Cruz, who directly criticized Trump’s administration on Friday for not efficiently helping the island after a powerful hurricane devastated it.

What did Yulín Cruz allege?
Yulín Cruz, a Democrat, has alleged in numerous interviews that the federal government has not done enough to support Puerto Rico in the wake of the hurricane. She even claimed that “we are going to see is something close to a genocide” if Trump and government agencies didn’t do more to help.

What others say?
However, many other top Puerto Rican politicians, including Gov. Ricardo Rossello, have been very complimentary of the government’s efforts to provide aid. One mayor in particular, Guaynabo’s Angel Perez, is speaking out directly against Yulín Cruz and her claims that the government isn’t doing enough to help.

In an interview with the Daily Caller, Perez said that his experience with the government has been much different than his counterpart’s:


My experience is different. I have been participating in different meetings at the headquarters of FEMA and our government and the help is coming in and right now my experience is different from hers. I’m receiving help from the government, we are receiving assistance from FEMA, I got people over here helping us with applications for the people that have damage in their houses. And we have here in Guaynabo, we have thousands of people that lost partially or totally their houses.
When asked about Yulín Cruz’s “genocide” comment, Perez took his criticism a step further and revealed that Yulín Cruz has been absent in many meetings with FEMA and other agencies. He said:

I don’t know why she is saying that. What I can tell you is my experience. She is not participating in any meetings and we had a couple already with the governors and with representation of FEMA and of HUD, of these whole federal agencies that have given us help and she’s not participating in those meetings and some mayors from her political party have been participating, so I don’t know why she is saying that. My experience is very different.
“Some [mayors] would like the help to be faster but we also know that FEMA is dealing with what happened in Houston and in Florida and now in Puerto Rico,” Perez said.
  I enlarged for emphasis...Carl

More at link:

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/10/01/puerto-rican-mayor-reveals-truth-behind-san-juan-mayors-attack-on-trump-and-it-explains-a-lot/

And Hillary Clinton had to get involved also:

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/09/30/benghazi-hero-shuts-down-hillary-clinton-with-fiery-response-after-she-urges-trump-to-send-aid-to-pr/
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 04:56:50 AM by Carl »

Offline Cedar

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #57 on: October 02, 2017, 07:28:14 AM »
  After all the complaining from one mayor,we hear a different view of US response to Maria devastation:

There is a guy who has done this before, and has his boots on the ground in Puerto Rico...

The retired lieutenant general who righted the recovery response to Hurricane Katrina in 2005 slammed Trump’s administration over the humanitarian crisis left by Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico.
“That’s bullshit,” Russel Honoré said of what he’s observed of the relief effort thus far. “This bureaucratic response is not working. With all due respect to the White House, they’re trying to put lipstick on this pig, but this thing is moving too slow.".

Honoré criticized Trump for failing to give officials policy guidance fast enough and early enough in the week.
“When we should have been moving the military last Saturday, the president was out playing golf and Twittering,” Honoré said.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russel_L._Honor%C3%A9
 He is best known for serving as commander of Joint Task Force Katrina responsible for coordinating military relief efforts for Hurricane Katrina-affected areas across the Gulf Coast.  Honoré's arrival in New Orleans came after what was widely believed to be a poor performance by the state and local agencies and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) and its director Michael D. Brown. He gained media celebrity and accolades for his apparent turning around of the situation in the city.

Honoré criticized the Trump administration's response to the crisis, saying it demanded a greater and more rapid response, with a larger commitment of U.S. troops to provide emergency assistance. He told reporters,  "The president has shown again he don't give a damn about poor people. He doesn't give a damn about people of color."

Cedar

« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 07:35:17 AM by Cedar »

Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #58 on: October 02, 2017, 07:55:13 AM »
  The US response began the very night of the storm,even while FEMA etc were working from Florida to Texas already. The logistics of getting the food/water/hardware to an island required ships  and aircraft that were delayed(aircraft) due to the airport being damaged and closed. President Trump started the process the night of the storm,the delays were not due to his administrations action but the logistics of moving that much men and equipment to an area with extremely limited access as few roads were open to any traffic and few trucks and heavy equipment even had fuel to run. Lack of PR preparation as in stored fuel,water,food was the major cause of the lack of distribution of men and materials. It was not the presidents sole job to physically carry all the supplies himself.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/federal-government-responded-puerto-rico-hurricane-maria/story?id=50152714

Offline Cedar

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #59 on: October 02, 2017, 08:18:16 AM »
  Lack of PR preparation as in stored fuel,water,food was the major cause of the lack of distribution of men and materials.

95% of the island is flattened. I would think their preps would have sailed out to see. I looked, and have seen no word of lack of Puerto Rico preps, other than what is being said by the Trump admin.

Cedar