Author Topic: Hurricane Maria  (Read 14488 times)

Offline Carl

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Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #61 on: October 02, 2017, 04:28:01 PM »

Offline chad

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #62 on: October 02, 2017, 06:26:26 PM »
The truth burns sometimes.

http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2017/10/pepperidge-farm-remembers.html


Wait what...FEMA's "not" buildings death camps.....somebody get on the horn to Alex Jones.... :sarcasm:
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 06:39:02 PM by chad »

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #63 on: October 02, 2017, 07:57:23 PM »

Offline Alan Georges

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #64 on: October 02, 2017, 08:19:52 PM »
Good article Carl, thanks.

Even under the best of circumstances – say, if they had an eight lane bridge to Miami – it would be difficult to get help and resources in to PR fast enough.  It's bad now, but its only going to get worse.  This kind of devastation and recovery effort wears people down.  Watch for escalating drama in a couple of months.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #65 on: October 04, 2017, 08:17:54 PM »
Washington Post opinion piece:  A Narcissist’s Guide to Helping Others Understand It Is All About You

Quote
Natural disasters and their man-made counterparts (mass shootings, terrorist attacks) pose an obvious challenge for those living the Me-Driven Life. These events are frustrating, and inconvenient, because they tend to cause those people to think about their own problems: their injuries, the loss of loved ones, their hunger, thirst, discomfort, life-threatening cholera, what have you.

This is a common character flaw, and it is harmful because it distracts them from their more pressing obligation to think about you.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #66 on: October 12, 2017, 01:10:08 AM »

Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #67 on: October 12, 2017, 02:32:20 AM »
Here’s the San Juan mayor’s vulgar response to her exchanges with Trump
“This isn’t about me or politics. I’m not going to be the face you see out there just giving you a box of food for the photo op. I’m the face of the person who is going to make sure somebody gets that to you … so like the last scene of Gone With the Wind — ‘Frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn.'”

My comment: She is a Democrat and an obvious Trump Hater,and her story does not agree with Mayors from other cities in Puerto Rico and she was absent from FEMAs organizational relief organizational meetings causing disruption of food and materials distributional to the very citizens who are her responsibility to assist. SHE is a major part of the problem

LINKhttp://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/10/11/heres-the-san-juan-mayors-vulgar-response-to-her-exchanges-with-trump/


FEMA administrator sets the record straight for critics of Trump’s Puerto Rico response

Political conflict. “Politics between Republicans and Democrats is bad enough, but in Puerto Rico, politics is even worse in many cases,” Long said.
Lack of unity. “When you can’t get elected officials at the local level to come to a joint field office because they disagree with the politics of the governor that’s there, it makes things difficult and the information fragmented,” Long said.

Collapse of communications. “It’s like getting all the leadership in a warehouse and you turn off the lights and the communications, and tell them, all right, get it fixed,” said Brig. Gen. Jose Reyes of the Puerto Rican National Guard.

First responders hindered. “A large portion of local workers as well as state workers were disaster victims. We had to play a greater first responder role than typically we would on the continental United States. We’re not really designed to do that in many cases, speaking honestly,” Long said.

My comment: Just as many Trump Haters  ,this mayor in simply not acting on the behalf of the many that depend on her but is hindering FEMAs efforts to support those in her area. She is too BLAME for the slow relief efforts as personally described to me over Ham radio by Ham operators in Puerto Rico and most people have very negative comments even when politics are generally not part of Ham discussion that is allowed.


http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/10/10/fema-administrator-sets-the-record-straight-for-critics-of-trumps-puerto-rico-response/


Offline NWPilgrim

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #68 on: October 12, 2017, 05:34:56 AM »
Oft times third world places are that way because they refuse to accept the ways of life that enable other locations to become first world civilized.  It is always about, Life has been so unfair to them, they never had a chance, etc.  Sure, there have been many injustices all over the world.  But every first world location also endured their own savage trails.  The difference is that they eventually adopted a code of behavior that ALLOWED progress to be made, for infrastructure to be built and maintained, etc.  One of those factors is to quit bellyaching and dig in and do something yourself about your own problem.  Playing the victim card in the middle of  your area's worst disaster in memory is not "doing something", it is sitting on your ass complaining and even obstructing others who are trying to help.

If the people of San Jose are happy with the mayor's "leadership" then they deserve what ever befalls them from the delays.  If they aren't, they need to push her aside and have someone who wants to help and cooperate get out there for them and make things happen.

I've seen numerous examples of nice houses or apartments being rented to people used to poverty and unclean conditions.  More times than not, they don't appreciate the wonderful cleanliness and order given to them out of charity.  Instead, they work hard to turn into the same dirty mess they were pulled out of.  I had one house mate in college that threw candle wax all over the walls and floor of his bedroom.  He was there on a full ride sports scholarship out of the LA barrios and treated that house like it was a trash bin, spitting tobacco chew on the carpet and rubbing it in with his shoe.

I would think the majority of Puerto Ricans have more dignity than this mayor is demonstrating.  Hopefully they trash can her and get a leader to get the rebuilding and cleaning, and distribution moving.

Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #69 on: October 12, 2017, 06:42:53 AM »
  YES, few people understand that third world countries are so because of the people and not the land.

NWP + Karma

Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #70 on: October 13, 2017, 04:45:30 PM »
The first Puerto Rican congresswoman came after Trump hard. Here’s what she said.

When President Donald Trump tweeted that the U.S. wouldn’t be able to stay in Puerto Rico and help with recovery efforts forever, hinting that the U.S. may be about to withdraw Hurricane Maria relief support in the near future, many people in America took offense.

But for Nydia Velazquez, the first Puerto Rican woman to be elected to Congress, it was personal. She let Trump, and the nation, know how she felt in a speech before the House Financial Services committee.

“Why is it he doesn’t put the same tweets when it comes to Texas or Florida?” she asked.

Carl's comment: Looks like they want the US to fund a total rebuild of their failing infrastructure that was mostly collapsed by their own hands, Does Puerto Rico even pay taxes to US?

FOUND IT:

The Commonwealth government has its own tax laws and Puerto Ricans are also required to pay most US federal taxes, with the major exception being that most residents do not have to pay the federal personal income tax. In 2009, Puerto Rico paid $3.742 billion into the US Treasury.

LINK to story:
http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/10/13/the-first-puerto-rican-congresswoman-came-after-trump-hard-heres-what-she-said/

Offline Cedar

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #71 on: October 13, 2017, 07:19:13 PM »
I was thinking last night that  Puerto Rico ought to just sell their island  to Canada, become Canadians, and wash their hands of the United States.

Cedar

Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #72 on: October 14, 2017, 04:22:57 AM »
I was thinking last night that  Puerto Rico ought to just sell their island  to Canada, become Canadians, and wash their hands of the United States.

Cedar

  They are in a bad way due to corruption in their own government,they will ,as a people,continue to suffer without a change in that government.
So few remain industrious and farm as their 'country' goes down the tubes. I do feel for the people as they suffer under government corruption as do we in the US now.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #73 on: October 14, 2017, 05:42:43 AM »
Once again....

Puerto Rico is owned by the United States since March 2, 1917. It's government is the United States, and it's current president is Trump.

But then again, Trump said he called/met the president of the US Virgin Islands.....which is himself. The United States bought the US Virgin islands 1917 as well.

All 54 of the islands of Puerto Rico and the US Virgin islands are owned by the United States, and their people are US citizens.

As to the poor state Puerto Rico is in... As you say, it was government caused....For much of the 20th century Puerto Rico was subject to favorable tax laws from the US federal government, which essentially acted to subsidize the island's economy. In 1996, US President Bill Clinton signed legislation phasing out important parts of the favorable federal tax code over a ten-year period ending in 2006. The end of the subsidies led to companies fleeing the island which itself subsequently led to tax shortfalls. At first, the Puerto Rican government tried to make up for the shortfall by issuing bonds. The government was able to issue an unusually large number of bonds, due to dubious underwriting from financial institutions such as Spain's Santander Bank, UBS, and Citigroup. And the Jones Act with shipping causes them a huge amount of grief, although Texas and Florida has it as well, for some reason those states do not get charged 3x what Puerto Rico does.

Cedar

Offline NWPilgrim

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #74 on: October 17, 2017, 05:14:42 PM »
I don't see the PR situation so much as a govt caused problem (contributor, but not ultimate source) now that you point out the flood of bonds issued.  That is the same game banks (multinational, central, IMF, World Bank) have played with most of Central and South America. 

- Offer huge amounts of loans/bonds that can never be repaid
-  When the country falls behind then offer extension at higher interest rate
-  Repeat extensions/increases until national economy collapses
-  Offer new govt huge amounts of debt to come to power and "rebuild."
-  Repeat.

Governments are to blame to the degree they (US mainly) allow these large/central banks to function, and that the debtor nations ask for/accept these ridiculous loans/bond underwriting.

Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #75 on: October 17, 2017, 05:30:29 PM »
Once again....

Puerto Rico is owned by the United States since March 2, 1917. It's government is the United States, and it's current president is Trump.

But then again, Trump said he called/met the president of the US Virgin Islands.....which is himself. The United States bought the US Virgin islands 1917 as well.

All 54 of the islands of Puerto Rico and the US Virgin islands are owned by the United States, and their people are US citizens.

As to the poor state Puerto Rico is in... As you say, it was government caused....For much of the 20th century Puerto Rico was subject to favorable tax laws from the US federal government, which essentially acted to subsidize the island's economy. In 1996, US President Bill Clinton signed legislation phasing out important parts of the favorable federal tax code over a ten-year period ending in 2006. The end of the subsidies led to companies fleeing the island which itself subsequently led to tax shortfalls. At first, the Puerto Rican government tried to make up for the shortfall by issuing bonds. The government was able to issue an unusually large number of bonds, due to dubious underwriting from financial institutions such as Spain's Santander Bank, UBS, and Citigroup. And the Jones Act with shipping causes them a huge amount of grief, although Texas and Florida has it as well, for some reason those states do not get charged 3x what Puerto Rico does.

Cedar

Puerto Rico is SELF GOVERNING commonwealth and has it's own government...Once again.It is corruption in their local government that has brought about much of the problems.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #76 on: October 17, 2017, 06:23:29 PM »
Puerto Rico is SELF GOVERNING commonwealth and has it's own government...Once again.It is corruption in their local government that has brought about much of the problems.
[/b]


Like Connecticut? Like Massachusetts? Like New Jersey? Like Illinois? Like Kentucky? Like New York? Etc?
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7619/9-most-bankrupt-states-america-yours-list-aaron-bandler

And Puerto Rico is a USA territory. Under United States law, an unincorporated territory is an area controlled by the United States government Puerto Rico is only partially covered by the US Constitution, as the cannot vote at a certain level.

Cedar

Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #77 on: October 17, 2017, 06:45:57 PM »
  The local government is corrupt...just accept that they are self governing .

Offline Cedar

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #78 on: October 23, 2017, 01:31:27 PM »
http://www.nydailynews.com/amp/news/national/puerto-rico-gov-slams-trump-high-marks-relief-efforts-article-1.3583112
Ex-Governor of Puerto Rico tweets photo of surgeons operating by cellphone light after Trump dubs aide efforts a 10

Cedar

Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #79 on: October 23, 2017, 01:38:59 PM »
http://www.nydailynews.com/amp/news/national/puerto-rico-gov-slams-trump-high-marks-relief-efforts-article-1.3583112
Ex-Governor of Puerto Rico tweets photo of surgeons operating by cellphone light after Trump dubs aide efforts a 10

Cedar

But the Navy and FEMA and other groups went there ,it's not President Trumps fault that they were so slow that many were there BEFORE the storm hit .

Offline Cedar

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #80 on: October 23, 2017, 01:50:48 PM »
But the Navy and FEMA and other groups went there ,it's not President Trumps fault that they were so slow that many were there BEFORE the storm hit .

- The US military is planning to deploy the USNS Comfort hospital ship to assist with FEMA's response efforts in Puerto Rico a week after Hurricane Maria smashed the island as a Category 4 storm,

- The Trump administration is rushing military hardware and personnel into Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands as it becomes increasingly clear that the U.S. government response to Hurricane Maria so far has been inadequate and overmatched by the scale of the disaster.In the first six days after the hurricane made landfall here, the Navy had deployed just three ships,

-Nearly two weeks after Hurricane Maria’s landfall, the Trump administration’s military aid to Puerto Rico may not be too late if it can save lives and ease the suffering of millions. But it is undisputedly arriving in amounts too little and too slowly, in sharp contrast to recent responses around the world and, most recently, elsewhere in the United States during this hurricane season.

- When Hurricane Maria struck, the U.S. military called off the huge resources it had mustered for Hurricanes Harvey and Irma.


Ohhhhh. I must be reading 'fake news'...

Cedar



Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #81 on: October 23, 2017, 02:06:54 PM »
Yes,you are and ships don't FLY...though 16 ships are in that area already as is the medical ship( it has been there over a week). President Trump has directed the effort and can do little more to speed thing up. If the state of condition of the power grid weren't in such bad shape BEFORE THE STORM,repairs would be faster ,they were a country falling apart from corruption and misuse and the storm did not do all the damage that was done.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #82 on: October 23, 2017, 05:25:58 PM »
Yes,you are and ships don't FLY...though 16 ships are in that area already as is the medical ship( it has been there over a week). President Trump has directed the effort and can do little more to speed thing up.

On September 29th 2017, the ship USNS Comfort (T-AH-20) set sail for Puerto Rico to bring assistance to the island after Hurricane Maria had hit it nine days earlier.

That 'fake news' was from the USNS Comfort (T-AH-20)'s own website.

The Comport,  began preparing to deploy days before, but U.S. officials decided last weekend against sending it, said Thomas LaCrosse, the Pentagon’s director of defense support to civil authorities. Long announced at the White House that the Comfort would be deploying after all. That decision came amid growing criticism that it should already have been at sea heading toward the island.

On September 29th, the USS Wasp was sent. The deployment of the Wasp to Puerto Rico comes as senior U.S. officials defend against growing criticism that their response to Maria is too slow. 9 days after "Maria", it was deployed, not arrived. As you say, dhips don't fly, so it was days after this that she arrived.


The Wasp, and two other Navy combat ships, the USS Kearsarge and USS Oak Hill, stayed in the region for days, and then moved south Sept. 18 to avoid the path of Hurricane Maria. They were started on their way days after USDẞWasp.

Fox news seems to be the only one mentioning 16 US Navy ships going to Puerto Rico. I think they must be like 50 ham radio operators who went to Puerto Rico, when it was half that number. Except in this case it was three ships. If you think it was 16, plus ten more going, like Fox News says, gimme some ship names.

Cedar

Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #83 on: October 23, 2017, 05:42:33 PM »
   :rofl:  The ship was delayed as it took several days to stock and provision the ship as it was not ready
for mission and does not get equipment and personnel on board until orders come down the chain of command and as some 15,000 plus are involved it is lunacy to blame one man for everything.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 06:04:24 PM by Carl »

Offline Cedar

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #84 on: October 23, 2017, 07:19:37 PM »
   :rofl:  The ship was delayed as it took several days to stock and provision the ship as it was not ready
for mission and does not get equipment and personnel on board until orders come down the chain of command and as some 15,000 plus are involved it is lunacy to blame one man for everything.



Quote
The Comport,  began preparing to deploy days before, but U.S. officials decided last weekend against sending it,

Care to name the other 13+10 US Navy ships deployed to Puerto Rico?

Cedar


Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #85 on: October 23, 2017, 07:42:38 PM »
On Saturday, the island’s main port in San Juan reopened and 11 ships arrived, the AP reports, bringing 1.6 million gallons of water, 23,000 cots, food, and electrical generators. More than 2,500 National Guard members have been deployed to Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands. The Coast Guard and Army Corps of Engineers are working to reopen more ports on the islands. (FEMA is keeping a running list of federal resources deployed to Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands.)

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/9/25/16360488/hurricane-maria-2017-puerto-rico-recovery-san-juan-hospitals-electricty-cell-service  Also note the COMFORT is not on this count and the other vessels I listed went to some of the other islands (Dominica,Virgin Islands to) as Puerto Rico was not the only place inn need of assistance .

SEVEN major Coast Guard vessels that were there have now left as ships can't do much on land and some other Navy vessels have also re-deployed as they didn't need any war done on any of the islands after initial aide was given and rescue work was picked up from aircraft that were now at the airport.

  I understand the COMFORT had issue with availability of an adequate port and remains mostly unutilized as hospitals are not releasing patients to go to the ship. Such is their local politics.

Offline Alan Georges

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #86 on: October 24, 2017, 06:45:39 AM »
The NYT takes a look at long term survival conditions in PR:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/24/us/hurricane-maria-puerto-rico-coping.html

If you're ready to live at these reduced levels, and I believe most of us here are, it's just another camping trip and you're in a position to help your neighbors.  OTOH, in a direct hit by a Cat 5 even the best prepared can lose everything material.  Pretty hard to blow away skills though, and that's the important part.

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #87 on: October 24, 2017, 07:16:09 AM »
.  OTOH, in a direct hit by a Cat 5 even the best prepared can lose everything material.  Pretty hard to blow away skills though, and that's the important part.

Yep. A lady at work.has family there, she said they were without water for a month. So I gave my co-worker two different sets of solar stills they could probably make from salvage there, and to pass the plans onto their neighbors.

Cedar

Offline Carl

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #88 on: October 24, 2017, 08:28:34 AM »
I'm only a Tech, so I'm out, but it would be nice to be on the ground and helping.

I was only a technician when I took on your namesake (Rita) and the aftermath of Katrina . As a tech ,you have access to over 90% of the Ham radio spectrum. With repeaters,satellites,Echolink and some tenacity ,you can communicate all over the world . I was requested to help at our local Communication Center (911) and walked in to the building with a radio and a thumb drive. I was able to take call,verify the address and give GPS locations to our HF operators and free them of such involved duties so they got the message out.

  Then I got an Echolink contact from a recruiter (Marine?) in Ohio who had several HF operators that could pass the messages more directly as HF does not work so good up close (200 mile to Gulf damage area) Later the same recruiter passed a SAT phone number to me of a nephew or son of his who was on a Coast Guard vessel doing air rescue...Many lives were saved due to the freak meeting of resourceful Ham operators as I was able to direct helicopter rescue DIRECTLY . Some did not like the idea that I was not using Ham radio to do this.....they are stupid...any means possible .

  Most emergency is m0re local and knowledge of the area can be critical,don't discount what you can do for others or yourself Rita as you never know when it can fall upon you to be part of the chain that many others can depend on.

Link to a small bit of audio: Listening still brings up emotions for me....

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5ZIZLZV4AwIdnVyazhiWmF1OTQ
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 08:34:20 AM by Carl »

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: Hurricane Maria
« Reply #89 on: April 18, 2018, 12:03:56 PM »
The whole island is down on power right now. They expect it will be down 24-36 hours. 

 http://thehill.com/latino/383734-puerto-rico-hit-with-island-wide-blackout