Author Topic: 100% vaccinated sailors still get a mumps outbreak  (Read 1304 times)

Offline FreeLancer

  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 5868
  • Karma: 770
  • Militant Vaxxer
Re: 100% vaccinated sailors still get a mumps outbreak
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2019, 02:18:33 PM »
They want to ban books or shut down websites and people who question vaccines so that should convince me that vaccines are good ? No, it has the opposite effect. Someone is trying to hide something. It's not any one the debate about one particular vaccine that they seem to wish to silence but questions about any and all vaccines

A quick Google search using the terms vaccines are the mark of the beast might help to dispel some of those concerns.



Not really.  But they will do so anyway. 

No quarantine or isolation for any communicable disease?



The viruses used in the rubella and several other vaccines are literally grown in fetuses.  Specifically, the fibroblast cells have been harvested from multiple fetuses and have been kept alive for this purpose for decades.  It is a huge bioethics issue.

No, they are not literally grown in fetuses, or fetal parts, or even fetal tissue.  The WI-38 human diploid lung fibroblast cells and MRC-5 human diploid cells are the product of multiple generations of cell division since they were originally developed in the 1960's from aborted fetal tissues.  They are not even the same cells from the original fetus anymore, any link to the present is historical, not physical.



And as far a huge bioethical issue, that's been addressed by the The National Catholic Bioethics Center.

Quote
What does it mean when we say that these products are made in "descendent cells"?
 
Descendent cells are the medium in which these vaccines are prepared. The cell lines under consideration were begun using cells taken from one or more fetuses aborted almost 40 years ago. Since that time the cell lines have grown independently. It is important to note that descendent cells are not the cells of the aborted child. They never, themselves, formed a part of the victim's body.

Quote
Are there any vaccines for which there are no alternatives?
 
Unfortunately, at present there are no alternative vaccines available in the United States against rubella (German measles), varicella (chickenpox), and hepatitis A. All of these are grown in the cell lines WI-38 and/or MRC-5. (See note #7 of the statement of the Pontifical Academy for Life for a listing of vaccines and their source).

Quote
What do I do if there is no alternative to a vaccine produced from these cell lines?
 
One is morally free to use the vaccine regardless of its historical association with abortion. The reason is that the risk to public health, if one chooses not to vaccinate, outweighs the legitimate concern about the origins of the vaccine. This is especially important for parents, who have a moral obligation to protect the life and health of their children and those around them.

Quote
What support is there in Church teaching for this position?
 
A statement from the Pontifical Academy for Life issued in 2005 holds that one may use these products, despite their distant association with abortion, at least until such time as new vaccines become available. The Vatican instruction Dignitas Personae (#35) states that “grave reasons may be morally proportionate to justify” the use of  these products, “for example, danger to the health of children could permit parents to use a vaccine which was developed using cell lines of illicit origin, while keeping in mind that everyone has the duty to make known their disagreement and to ask that their healthcare system make other types of vaccines available.”

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3193
  • Karma: 248
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: 100% vaccinated sailors still get a mumps outbreak
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2019, 02:49:14 PM »
A quick Google search using the terms vaccines are the mark of the beast might help to dispel some of those concerns.

No quarantine or isolation for any communicable disease?

No, they are not literally grown in fetuses, or fetal parts, or even fetal tissue.  The WI-38 human diploid lung fibroblast cells and MRC-5 human diploid cells are the product of multiple generations of cell division since they were originally developed in the 1960's from aborted fetal tissues.  They are not even the same cells from the original fetus anymore, any link to the present is historical, not physical.

And as far a huge bioethical issue, that's been addressed by the The National Catholic Bioethics Center.

LOL.  Did you read posted letter specifically provided for use in gaining religious exemptions in the US?  It stated: "As regards the diseases against which there are no alternative vaccines which are available and ethically acceptable, it is right to abstain from using these vaccines if it can be done without causing children, and indirectly the population as a whole, to undergo significant risks to their health."

As pointed out forgoing MMR vaccine does not pose a significant risk. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger is more commonly known today as Pope Benedict XVI.

Also, the majority of your entire body is not the same cells you were born with.  So are you no longer you?

Offline FreeLancer

  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 5868
  • Karma: 770
  • Militant Vaxxer
Re: 100% vaccinated sailors still get a mumps outbreak
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2019, 03:56:49 PM »
LOL.  Did you read posted letter specifically provided for use in gaining religious exemptions in the US?  It stated: "As regards the diseases against which there are no alternative vaccines which are available and ethically acceptable, it is right to abstain from using these vaccines if it can be done without causing children, and indirectly the population as a whole, to undergo significant risks to their health."

I did and found this part to be especially pertinent.

Quote
Rubella and its vaccine

Rubella (German measles)1 is a viral illness caused by a Togavirus of the genus Rubivirus and is characterized by a maculopapular rash. It consists of an infection which is common in infancy and has no clinical manifestations in one case out of two, is self-limiting and usually benign. Nonetheless, the German measles virus is one of the most pathological infective agents for the embryo and foetus. When a woman catches the infection during pregnancy, especially during the first trimester, the risk of foetal infection is very high (approximately 95%). The virus replicates itself in the placenta and infects the foetus, causing the constellation of abnormalities denoted by the name of Congenital Rubella Syndrome. For example, the severe epidemic of German measles which affected a huge part of the United States in 1964 thus caused 20,000 cases of congenital rubella2, resulting in 11,250 abortions (spontaneous or surgical), 2,100 neonatal deaths, 11,600 cases of deafness, 3,580 cases of blindness, 1,800 cases of mental retardation. It was this epidemic that pushed for the development and introduction on the market of an effective vaccine against rubella, thus permitting an effective prophylaxis against this infection.

The severity of congenital rubella and the handicaps which it causes justify systematic vaccination against such a sickness. It is very difficult, perhaps even impossible, to avoid the infection of a pregnant woman, even if the rubella infection of a person in contact with this woman is diagnosed from the first day of the eruption of the rash. Therefore, one tries to prevent transmission by suppressing the reservoir of infection among children who have not been vaccinated, by means of early immunization of all children (universal vaccination). Universal vaccination has resulted in a considerable fall in the incidence of congenital rubella, with a general incidence reduced to less than 5 cases per 100,000 livebirths. Nevertheless, this progress remains fragile. In the United States, for example, after an overwhelming reduction in the number of cases of congenital rubella to only a few cases annually, i.e. less than 0.1 per 100,000 live births, a new epidemic wave came on in 1991, with an incidence that rose to 0.8/100,000. Such waves of resurgence of German measles were also seen in 1997 and in the year 2000. These periodic episodes of resurgence make it evident that there is a persistent circulation of the virus among young adults, which is the consequence of insufficient vaccination coverage. The latter situation allows a significant proportion of vulnerable subjects to persist, who are a source of periodic epidemics which put women in the fertile age group who have not been immunized at risk. Therefore, the reduction to the point of eliminating congenital rubella is considered a priority in public health care.



As pointed out forgoing MMR vaccine does not pose a significant risk. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger is more commonly known today as Pope Benedict XVI.

As pointed out in the foregoing quote, it does not say that.

Both of our links are based on the same document from the PONTIFICIA ACADEMIA PRO VITAhttps://www.ncbcenter.org/files/1714/3101/2478/vaticanresponse.pdf



Also, the majority of your entire body is not the same cells you were born with.  So are you no longer you?

Is a puddle of cells in petri dish a fetus?  How many angels can dance on the head of pin?  We can play these games all night....

Offline mountainmoma

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 4383
  • Karma: 197
  • suburban homesteader
Re: 100% vaccinated sailors still get a mumps outbreak
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2019, 05:17:39 PM »
None of which has anything to do with non-Catholics who find it against their religious convictions for whatever reason, reasons that we ALL are allowed to have no matter what the Vatican does or does not say

 
FL has no problem with the vaccines, that we allready know.  But other people will and do, for various reasons.  Some reasons are because of cells used in teh vaccines, no matter how far removed from the source.  Quoting one religions explainations allowing their congregants first   -- Says nothing to other religious churches/orders  -- second does not preclude members of that church, in this case the Catholic Church, to remain steadfast in their own personal religious objections. 

What I am saying is  -- all this effert and links has nothing to do with peoples individual rights to their steadfast religious and philosophical beliefs, and their rights to act in accordance

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3193
  • Karma: 248
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: 100% vaccinated sailors still get a mumps outbreak
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2019, 09:00:49 PM »
None of which has anything to do with non-Catholics who find it against their religious convictions for whatever reason, reasons that we ALL are allowed to have no matter what the Vatican does or does not say

The cherrypicking seriously distorts the catholic position.  Catholics believe in the principle of subsidiarity. What the letter states is that parents have the final decision, that the use of fetal tissue is a grave moral issue that puts parents between a moral rock and a hard place, and that parents can choose to vaccinate if they believe there is a serious health risk to their children and the public, thus taking a lessor of two evils.  But in choosing to vaccinate they must speak out about this issue. I encourage you to read the original.

What I am saying is  -- all this effert and links has nothing to do with peoples individual rights to their steadfast religious and philosophical beliefs, and their rights to act in accordance

Absolutely! 

Ever get the feeling you are River in Serenity out there?   "Comfort and enligntenment of true civilization": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UpKoB_pMeI

Looks like the governor of Kentucky is speaking out now.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/03/20/health/kentucky-governor-children-chickenpox/index.html

Kentucky governor says he exposed his children to chickenpox rather than getting vaccine

The governor says he supports parents who choose to get their children vaccinated and also those who decline to do so. But he said the decision shouldn't be up to the government.

"This is America," he said. "The federal government should not be forcing this upon people. They just shouldn't."


« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 09:11:13 PM by iam4liberty »

Offline FreeLancer

  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 5868
  • Karma: 770
  • Militant Vaxxer
Re: 100% vaccinated sailors still get a mumps outbreak
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2019, 10:24:56 PM »
I encourage you to read the original.

Oh, I did.  Three times.  Looking for the literal foetuses hidden amidst the ecclesiastical mumbo jumbo and canon legaleeze. 

I was very impressed with their review of the science.  I got to hand it to the Catholics, their scholars don't give science the short shrift, which sure beats the hell out of what I grew up with.