Author Topic: My return to archery -  (Read 15864 times)

Offline Dan

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My return to archery -
« on: July 15, 2009, 05:54:02 PM »
and bringing others into the sport.

Recently I have been considering alternatives to firearms with an eye towards things that depend less on consumables that I couldn’t make myself. I considered black powder but with the exception of the flintlock and older designs they rely on primers/percussion caps but flint isn’t exactly common around here so with the possible exception of the CVA Electra I don’t think that is quite what I am looking for. Then I started thinking about archery and how much fun it was as a kid shooting into hay bales in front of the barn. I still have my old Bear recurve and another recurve that I inherited back then.

I got my compound bow out for the first time in years and re-fletched the arrows for it. I had purchased the compound bow about 8 or 9 years ago and shot it only three times since. An injury to one shoulder shortly after its purchase prevented me from using it for some time eventually it was all but forgotten. At some point I also decided I wanted to return to traditional archery so after looking around a bit I picked up an inexpensive recurve, just in case it didn’t agree with my bad shoulder I didn’t want to be heavily invested. The recurve I found has 26# limbs on it with the ability to change them out for heavier ones if I feel my shoulder can take it in the future. My compound is turned down as far as it can be (about 50 lbs) and with the let off it’s not too bad so sticking to a low draw weight on the recurve should be fine.

Yesterday, after work, I went to the archery range and had a lot of fun trying to relearn an old skill and condition some muscles that haven’t been used in a while. It’s a good thing I was the only one on the range otherwise it would have been embarrassing, at least at first. I did get down to a consistent 8 inch group at about 20 yards with the compound bow which I thought was pretty good all things considered. The recurve is another story. An 8 inch group at about 15 yards is about all I could muster and that’s only if you don’t count the one or two flyers out of a dozen shots. I probably could have done a little better with the recurve or at least gone without the flyers had I gotten some better quality arrows but these were the only ones I could find with the correct spine. As it is one of them is noticeably worse than the others consistently going about 18 inches left at 15 yards and it sounds a little funny too.

After reporting back to a friend/coworker we made a trip down to the same archery shop where he picked up his first bow, the same recurve that I purchased a few days ago. So I’m back in the game, my shoulder seems to be fine today, not sore or anything and I have a new shooting buddy.
 ;D

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2009, 06:15:25 PM »
My father tried to force me into archery when I was a kid, and I pretty much hated everything about it, other than being outdoors.  Lately though, partially due to TSPC, I've been re-considering getting back into it.  I'm unfortunately right handed and left-eye dominant, so I'll probably end up training myself to shoot left handed.  I shot right handed as a child, but I didn't like doing it. I shot with a compound bow, but I'd like to practice with a long bow, instead.  They're the easiest bows to make, and very easy to store. Also, I want to shoot with at least a 50 or 55 pound bow, but my arms have grown so weak over the years, that recently I found it impossible to draw my nephew's bow. It was like 60 pounds, but I clearly need to rebuild my arm muscles.

My dad shoots everything with his recurve. Deer, turkey, hog, quail, fish, rabbit, everything. He makes his own arrows, and has served as a president for a major oklahoma archery club. So as you can imagine, I have a lot of knowledge about the sport tucked away deep into my memory banks.

Offline Pathfinder

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2009, 07:23:07 PM »
I've never really been into archery, at least not since a kid. Lately, tho, I have been considering it as a backup.

I found a PSE Nova at one of the local pawn shops, with arrows, bow-mounted quiver, sights, mechanical release, etc. - all listed for about $100+ under current retail, less if I push them on the price (I know some of the workers).

If I get it, I will have to have the cams turned down a bit, as I cannot get my puny arms to pull it at 65# - yet.

Offline TimSuggs

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2009, 08:22:48 PM »
Great post Dan + 1 to you all.  The lowly bow has many, many things going for it as far as "we", are concerned here.  Can be inexpensive, quite, light weight, short learning curve to the killzone, can be 100% homemade, wide range of "ammo" variables that also can be homemade, reusable ammo, decent range, adjustable to user capabilities, good physical conditioning, accurate, and on and on. 

The downsides:  Bulky/cumbersome in heavy cover (but probably no worse than a longarm w/sling), limited ammo capacity (ever seen a 30 round quiver?), easy arrow deflection in cover, and a few more I haven't thought of yet.

I had an old right handed recurve that one of my military buddys had given me when he "gave up killing", and being a Southpaw myself, I had a lot of difficulty learning to shoot it well.  Many a string burn!  I finally gave it away myself and wound up with a left handed older compound that fit me like a glove.  I think it went up to 75 pound pull weight and if I missed a weekend practicing with it at 75 pounds, I couldn't raise my arms the next day.  I finally had it backed down to 45 pounds and after getting used to the new trajectory, I was very pleased, and was able to pick it up and shoot it all day after months of non-use without loosing the use of my arms for the next week.

If you haven't seen the "tactical" use of a compound in "Next of Kin" with Patrick Swayze, you owe it to yourself.

Tim.


Offline DeltaEchoVictor

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2009, 08:36:20 PM »
Welcome back to archery Dan. ;)

Offline TimSuggs

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2009, 08:43:33 PM »
DEV...  You shoot a bow frequently, right?   Who would you say is our "resident" bow expert here on TSP?

Tim.


Offline DeltaEchoVictor

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2009, 08:45:50 PM »
DEV...  You shoot a bow frequently, right?   Who would you say is our "resident" bow expert here on TSP?

Tim.


I don't know any experts, only students. ;)

Yes, I shoot just about everyday.  Both the longbow & the recurve.  I don't shoot compounds anymore & I have absolutely no use for the crossbow.

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2009, 09:46:29 PM »
TW really wants a recurve or a long bow.  I want a compound.  I'm looking forward to getting into archery next year, when the economy stabilizes.

Offline TimSuggs

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2009, 09:58:27 PM »
I don't know any experts, only students. ;)

Yes, I shoot just about everyday.  Both the longbow & the recurve.  I don't shoot compounds anymore & I have absolutely no use for the crossbow.

I thought I remembered seeing some pictures of you yanking on a recurve somewhere around here.  Crossbow have a use.  Chainmaile Deer!  I know there is a crossbow following from people with certain physical limitations, and I can see that, but I too see little other practical advantage.  And with the high draw weights (75+), the use of a cocker would be mandatory for me.

I know you said you were cutting back on the compound, but I see a lot of ads for the Matthews Solo-Cam model on all the hunting shows.  But I don't know if it's just their own hype, or whether there is any real advantage to a single cammed bow setup.

Tim.

Offline TimSuggs

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2009, 10:01:40 PM »
TW really wants a recurve or a long bow.  I want a compound.  I'm looking forward to getting into archery next year, when the economy stabilizes.

SW, I loved my recurve, just couldn't shoot it because it was bassackwards for me being a lefty.  Do you have YMCA/YWCA's in Ca?  They offer some courses on bows I think.

Tim.

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2009, 10:59:04 PM »
SW, I loved my recurve, just couldn't shoot it because it was bassackwards for me being a lefty.  Do you have YMCA/YWCA's in Ca?  They offer some courses on bows I think.

Tim.

My parents work out at the Y, so I know there's one right on the beach about an hour from here.  But that's a little far.  We found this amazing little archery shop (after having terrible experiences at two or three others) that offers lessons, and the kid (he was about 16? maybe 17?) who showed us around the shop and talked archery with us was so awesome, we could have spent hours and hours in there talking to him.  He wasn't presumptuous, or spoiled, and didn't have an attitude about anything.  His parents own the shop, but basically he runs it, and walks around talking people into archery all day long.  He even tested my draw length, and picked out a compound for me that was price friendly and ready to kill some animals when I was good enough to hunt with it (the Diamond Rock).  TW still hasn't found the "right" recurve, but then, the guys in the Bass Pro Shop (where we found the "prettiest" recurves) are both unhelpful, and not educated enough to help even if they WERE helpful.  Oh well.  We'll go back to the little archery shop, and kidnap that teenager and take him with us to Bass Pro Shop someday.  :D

Offline TimSuggs

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2009, 04:31:40 AM »
We'll go back to the little archery shop, and kidnap that teenager and take him with us to Bass Pro Shop someday.  :D

And that's the bottom line.  To do whatever it takes to get what you need. 

A lot of WallyWorlds "do" sell various bows, and so do the Sam's clubs but only seasonally, and you can save a few bucks by purchasing there, but when you have that "question", or that little "piece" falls off and you have to go back and your looking for an answer, well, we all know you're not going to find that on a WallMart shelf.  I'm all about saving money, but I also need a knowledgeable staff and service from time to time.  I'd make that teenager my "newest, bestest, buddy", and he'd have my patronage in his cash register too.

Tim.



Offline DeltaEchoVictor

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2009, 12:03:49 PM »
SW, I loved my recurve, just couldn't shoot it because it was bassackwards for me being a lefty.  Do you have YMCA/YWCA's in Ca?  They offer some courses on bows I think.

Tim.
Tim, I wished I'd known you were a lefty.

I got rid of a real nice vintage Bear not too long ago that I actually bought because it was too cheap not to.  It was a lefty model.  I'd have sent it to you instead.  I had it for a few years & besides shooting it a few times to make sure it was okay, it mostly hung on my wall.

Offline TimSuggs

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2009, 12:12:01 PM »
Tim, I wished I'd known you were a lefty.

I got rid of a real nice vintage Bear not too long ago that I actually bought because it was too cheap not to.  It was a lefty model.  I'd have sent it to you instead.  I had it for a few years & besides shooting it a few times to make sure it was okay, it mostly hung on my wall.

Thanks Bro, it's the thought that counts!  I think a lot of folks wind up with our backwards stuff from time to time not knowing it's a "left handed", gun, baseball glove, bow, or girlfriend.  Yes, they are available.

Tim.


Offline Dan

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2009, 02:22:53 PM »
Thanks all. Going to the range again this Saturday with my shooting buddy to break in his new bow. While I was reading all the replies he stopped by my desk to show off the fancy targets he printed up, guess I’m not the only one that’s enthusiastic about this.

Sis, I would definitely spend my money with the kid at the little archery shop before going to a big box store. There probably isn’t anything the big box has that the kid can’t get for you anyway. The down side being that the price may be a little higher but then I’m usually willing to spend a little more with the local merchants especially when they have good service and are knowledgeable.

If TW hasn’t looked at them yet Martin makes some nice bows. I really like the Bamboo Viper and the X-200. Bear also has some nice stuff but the draw on most of them are too much for me. If he is interested in a takedown with an aluminum riser, I hear good things about the Hoyt Dorado.

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2009, 03:25:23 PM »
Sis, I would definitely spend my money with the kid at the little archery shop before going to a big box store. There probably isn’t anything the big box has that the kid can’t get for you anyway. The down side being that the price may be a little higher but then I’m usually willing to spend a little more with the local merchants especially when they have good service and are knowledgeable.

If TW hasn’t looked at them yet Martin makes some nice bows. I really like the Bamboo Viper and the X-200. Bear also has some nice stuff but the draw on most of them are too much for me. If he is interested in a takedown with an aluminum riser, I hear good things about the Hoyt Dorado.

Oh we will DEFINITELY buy from the kid, even if the bows are 50% more expensive.  Knowing that we can go back and talk to him about it is a sell right there.  But it'd be nice to hold a few nice, pretty, wood ones, and have their merits (or downsides) explained to us before choosing which one to have him order in for TW, and the only recurves he had in his shop were take down, fiberglass, camoflauged ones, and that's NOT what TW wants.  I will point TW to this thread, and have him check out the bows you suggested.  Thank you!

I'm so excited for you!  The fact that you're getting into archery right now is just awesome!

Offline Buffy

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2009, 04:19:31 PM »
Haven't touched a bow since I was a child, but lately watching the other family members with theirs has me interested again.
Looking for a LH with a puny pull (like about 30 lbs), and a 70 to 80% let-off.
Yes, I am a wuss, but a FIERCE little wuss.

Offline Dan

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2009, 05:54:22 PM »
Yes, I am a wuss, but a FIERCE little wuss.

LOL, The gal I talked to at one of the shops said that the let off on some of the newer bows is in the range you want. What bow she was referring to and 70 to 80% of what specifically I don't know.

Oh we will DEFINITELY buy from the kid, even if the bows are 50% more expensive.  Knowing that we can go back and talk to him about it is a sell right there.  But it'd be nice to hold a few nice, pretty, wood ones, and have their merits (or downsides) explained to us before choosing which one to have him order in for TW, and the only recurves he had in his shop were take down, fiberglass, camoflauged ones, and that's NOT what TW wants.

I had a feeling TW was looking for wood bow, I almost didn't mention the Hoyt but thought you never know. Glad to hear you two value good customer service the way I do.

I'm so excited for you!  The fact that you're getting into archery right now is just awesome!

Thanks  ;D

Offline surfivor

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2009, 04:17:09 AM »
 I'm trying to find an inexpensive take apart recurve bow. The trading post supposedly says they will have martin jaguar fro $150 in September. They have a PSE impala for $200 I think, but the guy says the a martin is better. If I had both bows, my question is could they both shoot the same arrows or is arrow length very specific to each bow ?

 What's been odd since I have gotten into archery is I have downloaded a bunch of sioux indian stories onto my ipod, stories about crazy horse, sitting bull, and black elk. Joseph Marshall has stuff on
ITunes.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 04:37:14 AM by surfivor »

Offline DeltaEchoVictor

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2009, 05:23:22 AM »
Martin is a better bow IMO.  The PSE would be adequate though.

Quote
my question is could they both shoot the same arrows or is arrow length very specific to each bow ?
Arrow length has very little to do with the bow, it has everything to do with your draw length....that is, how far you draw to anchor.  You should have someone who knows what they're doing measure your draw length for you before you even think about buying arrows.

It's possible that both bows could use the same arrows if they are equal in draw weight, but it's not guaranteed.  Every bow performs differently & you'll need to tune your arrows & bow to each other.  Just because two bows are both marked 50# @ 28" doesn't mean they're going to perform the same.  If I were you I'd buy one bow, learn something about archery & all the myriad factors that go into shooting a traditional type bow well, & then if you decide you like it upgrade to a better bow.

The approach you're taking now is only making the process more difficult than it needs to be.  The Beginner's Guide to Traditional Archery is a good beginners book & I happen to know the author.  He outlines getting started very well.

The Traditional Bowhunter's Handbook is another must have reference.  It's my archery bible & whenever I need clarification or a reminder I go back to it.  These two books can answer any question you could possibly have about getting started in traditional archery.

If you want a decent take down bow try something like this one, (Here's one in a left handed model).  The lefty will sell for more because you don't see many of them.  It's an old Bear 76er, the guy's description is bullshit, there's nothing rare or custom about that bow.  It is however a good bow & it'll probably end up selling for less than $50.  If you spray a couple of coats of OD green or flat brown on it, it would make a fine hunting bow.  I have one that I hunt with a lot & it was as ugly as that ebay bow when I bought it, I camo'd it & it's a great shooting bow.


Here's one with two sets of limbs.

Offline surfivor

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2009, 06:09:23 AM »
 Thanks,

 I was just asking. I never buy anything without asking what I need. If I bought a bow from an archery shop, I'd ask them what kind of arrows I need and so on, that way I never wind up with the wrong stuff.

  That bow there is quite inexpensive. You think a bear bow like that would be decent I guess then ? I'm not sure how heavy it is ? Someone gave me a 3 piece bow that is 35 pound pull, but it is kind of heavy and made of metal. I had called the trading post and they said they may have the martin jaguar for a sale in September and I have been waiting on that for a long time and it has put everything else off. Other than that I have a compound bow, but I want to get some sort of take apart recurve bow. I've never bought anything off of ebay before, but it's sounds like a possibility ..
« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 06:44:01 AM by surfivor »

Offline surfivor

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2009, 11:41:37 PM »
 I don't get exactly how ebay works, but it listed the highest bid as $38, every time I added a higher bid it instantly said I had been outbid, so that the price went up to $49 in about the span of 10 minutes with 5 bids. What I'd really like to know is how heavy the bow is itself for back packing etc. but it seems like the price keeps going up anyway and the bids run out tommorow
« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 11:46:11 PM by surfivor »

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2009, 12:07:07 AM »
I don't get exactly how ebay works, but it listed the highest bid as $38, every time I added a higher bid it instantly said I had been outbid, so that the price went up to $49 in about the span of 10 minutes with 5 bids. What I'd really like to know is how heavy the bow is itself for back packing etc. but it seems like the price keeps going up anyway and the bids run out tommorow

Sometimes, if I understand it correctly, people can set up a machine to outbid you up to their highest bid automatically.

Offline Dan

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2009, 01:14:14 AM »
It’s a feature on eBay. You decide what the most you are willing to bid and you set up automatic bidding with that as your maximum. Ebay then monitors the auction and if someone else bids it automatically ups your bid one increment and will continue to do so until the other guy stops bidding or your maximum is reached. In this situation it sounds like someone else has done this and that is why every time you bid it goes up beyond what you bid. If you are both using automatic bid it goes up to the first increment above the lowest maximum of the two.

Offline surfivor

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2009, 07:12:08 AM »

 yea, I eventually figured it out, there is a bid and a max bid. Right now I am the highest

  it occurred to me that the jaguar bow may have what feels like a lighter pull, we'll see what happens with this thing.

Offline surfivor

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2009, 05:47:05 AM »
hey, I found an archery podcast on ITunes: http://bowcast.com

Anyway, what I like about archery is the zen aspect of it. Target practice is sort of like meditation and helps with concentration .. 
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 05:50:25 AM by surfivor »

Offline Tactical Badger

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2009, 08:04:31 AM »
hey, I found an archery podcast on ITunes: http://bowcast.com

Anyway, what I like about archery is the zen aspect of it. Target practice is sort of like meditation and helps with concentration .. 

Which is exactly why I stick to traditional equipment.  To me...there's nothing particularly Zen-like about a modern compound bow with all the pulleys and cables and arrow rests, and over-draw shelves and lighted sights and....well...you get the picture.

But, a wooden longbow, shooting cedar shafts...very Zen.

Offline TimSuggs

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2009, 10:42:02 AM »
yea, I eventually figured it out, there is a bid and a max bid. Right now I am the highest

So Surfivor, did ya win the bid?  That would be cool for a Humpday pick-me-up.  And just because I'm sure somebody out there has never heard the term "humpday", it's Wednesday, halfway through the week and then a nice down hill slide all the way to the weekend.  OK, back to bows...  Post some pictures of it if you won the bid Surfvivor.

Tim.


Offline surfivor

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2009, 06:04:24 AM »
dude, I was the highest bidder until 30 seconds before bidding ended, I think I should have kept quiet on here.

Anyway, would you buy a bow from this website ?

http://www.archerybowsandarrowsonline.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MJagBow

They have a martin jaguar, only in 50 pound pull. The guy at the trading post says it feels like less. They don't make 45 pull, only 30, 40, 50 and 55.
I am wondering how the jag would compare to a bear 76er. bass pro shops sells jags online as well, for $139 I think and they have the 40 pound pull. Is 40 too light for deer ? I had thought of getting a 45. The other bow was the pse impala.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 06:19:01 AM by surfivor »

Offline DeltaEchoVictor

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Re: My return to archery -
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2009, 06:38:20 AM »
Oooh, you got sniped.  That's aggravating, I've lost some nice bows from snipers.  I've also won some nice bows by sniping though, so sometimes it works in your favor. ;)  You just have to keep hitting that refresh button & updating your bid if you really want something.

I haven't shot the Martin so I can't really tell you how it compares.  Martin makes a quality bow, so it would probably serve you well.  Do a search on reviews for that particular bow & see what you find.

Quote
Is 40 too light for deer ? I had thought of getting a 45.
A 40# bow will kill white tail deer just as dead as a 50# bow will.  Shot placement is the important factor.  A lighter bow may not be as snappy as a heavier bow, but it also may not make much difference if the bow shoots well, & the shooter shoots even better.

Trad gear is inherently slow when compared to modern compounds.  The bow speed argument still rages among trad shooters though.  The thing to remember is, if you practice & get proficient with your bow, it will shoot accurately if you do.