what's the obsession with batoning?

[wolffire99]

[rant] It seems like every knife test or review I've seen online focuses more on batoning with the knife than anything else.  It also seems to be what people post more pictures of and talk about more on online.  Why?  This was never the intended use of a knife, IMO.  It's no different than a carpenter doing a review of a level by seeing how well it pounds nails.   This is why we have the hatchet/axe.  The only time you'll see me batoning with a knife is in a survival situation where it's the only tool I had.  Other then that, I say use the right tool for the right job and in the woods, a good hatchet/axe is more valuable than a fixed blade knife, imo, if I had to pick one.  [/rant]

[DeltaEchoVictor]

[rant] The only time you'll see me batoning with a knife is in a survival situation where it's the only tool I had.    [/rant]

Well there ya go.  Pretty much answered it yourself right there.

Other then that, I say use the right tool for the right job and in the woods, a good hatchet/axe is more valuable than a fixed blade knife, imo, if I had to pick one.

The nature of emergent situations dictate that you may not have the "right tool for the right job", but it isn't it comforting to know you can drive (baton) that big ole knife right thru a piece of wood if you need to because it's the best tool you have for that task at that moment?

I don't always have a chainsaw or an axe in the woods.  I always carry a good fixed blade though, if it's tough enough to drive thru a piece of wood so I can feed a fire for comfort or survival, so much the better.

[General. Preparedness]

Weight, I now it sounds completely of topic but let me explain. A large fixed blade that is let's say 10 inches, even thought it's a huge chunk of metal weighs less than a hatchet. Lots of people, myself included, think that it's exhausting to carry a heavy pack through the woods. It is for that reason that they save weight where ever they can. So a lot of people, like me, choose to take large fixed blade knives. So even though spitting wood is not the intended use of a knife, it is going to have to be used in that fashion. Since splitting wood is a hard use task people who take knives and not hatchets want to know whether the knife they have or want to get is up to the task. Hence the focus on batoning tests. Asides from that since batoning is so hard on a knife if it'll stand up to it it should stand up to practically any other tasks.

[evilphish]

agreed general.

When things are perfectly planned the right tool for the right job is the perfered solution.  but there is no harm and a lot of advantage to know what a piece of gear can do. 

Take a look around my kitchen and you'll see most of my cooking gear has multiple uses.  I dont own a flour sifter.  but the fine mesh screen strainer i have sifts flour just fine and can be used for a lot of things.  no reason why i can't take the same approach to my BOB

[Joel]

Other then that, I say use the right tool for the right job and in the woods, a good hatchet/axe is more valuable than a fixed blade knife, imo, if I had to pick one.

  While a hatchet or axe is certainly better suited for chopping wood, I have to disagree as to the general utility of the two.  I live in the boondocks.  I carry a fixed blade knife (CS UWK) every day, and I use and abuse it every day.  It's damned near as useful as my multitool.   

Not long ago my gulchmate acquired one of those little Gerber hatchets, carried it on his belt for maybe two weeks, then stopped doing so.  When I asked why, he said he'd thought it would be as useful as my UWK but it just wasn't so.  It got in the way and he hardly ever used it.

[General. Preparedness]

When I asked why, he said he'd thought it would be as useful as my UWK but it just wasn't so.

Agreed. In my opinion it's easier to use a knife as an axe than an axe as a knife.

[khristopher23]

[rant] It seems like every knife test or review I've seen online focuses more on batoning with the knife than anything else.  It also seems to be what people post more pictures of and talk about more on online.  Why?  This was never the intended use of a knife, IMO.  It's no different than a carpenter doing a review of a level by seeing how well it pounds nails.   This is why we have the hatchet/axe.  The only time you'll see me batoning with a knife is in a survival situation where it's the only tool I had.  Other then that, I say use the right tool for the right job and in the woods, a good hatchet/axe is more valuable than a fixed blade knife, imo, if I had to pick one.  [/rant]

I have to agree with wolffire on this one.

I think it is a relatively new fad. You never see any of the old time outdoor writers talking about doing that. IMO they just knew better. What really gets me is to look on some of these newer "bushcraft" sites and see them driving their knife through a piece of wood, then wanting a hatchet sharp enough to slice potatoes with. I just gotta shake my head and wonder why these people want a knife to do the work of an axe and and axe to do the work of a knife. Now don't get me wrong, I do want one of those fancy gransfors hatchets, but (and I don't own one, so I may be jumping to conclusions here) it seems to me that they are ground at such a shallow (if that is the right word, or maybe narrow would fit better) bevel that using them for splitting hardwood or the breastbone of a deer would leave you with a severely nicked up cutting edge. Maybe a more obtuse angle on the cutting edge would help the axe stand up better for the rougher work that an axe was meant to do. But of course then, you might not be able to slice paper thin potatoes with your axe  . Seriously though, I understand why you might want a sharp edge on an axe, you can split finer sized kindling, and it is really hard to do much actual cutting you might want to do (such as felling or limbing) with a more blunt edge. One solution to this might be to follow Nessmuk's lead and go for a double bit hatchet. I have one on order from Lee Reeves ( http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=5876.0).

As far as using knives for splitting, I don't really get that either. IMO, once a knife gets over about 6 inches at the most, you are pretty much losing a lot of practical usefulness anyway. I mean honestly, have you ever tried to peel an apple with a knife with a 10 inch blade?  I have a Buck Special with a 6 inch blade, and although I find the large grip very comfortable, I think that the 6 inch blade is pretty much overkill for most situations. I much prefer my Buck Woodsman (with the 4 inch blade) pretty much everything. So, from my experiences (and from what I have read of other people's experiences, in  places from the old time books, to other message boards) a 4 inch fixed blade is about the optimal  size fixed blade knife. Know, how big of a piece of wood are you going to split with a 4 inch knife? Here's a hint, it's gonna be less than 4 inches , but probably closer to 3 1/2" by the time you figure that you are going to need something sticking out the other side to hit with the baton. I know that split wood burns better, but once I get a campfire going, I would rarely split wood less that 4 inches in diameter. I would concur that even a 3 1/2" piece of wood (especially in wet weather) would be easier to start a fire with if it were split. But, assuming that you do not have an axe, you could just take your 4 inch knife and shave of the wet outer bark, then shave off smaller pieces of dry wood to get the fire going, there by saving the knife from taking a beating from the batoning process.

All in all, I believe in the "Nessmuk Trio", a pocket knife, a fixed blade, and a hatchet. In most situations (IMO) you would probably even be OK leaving out the fixed blade, and going with a hatchet and pocketknife, but I do understand the need in carrying all three. On the other hand, if I could only have one, and not carry both a hatchet and pocket knife, I probably would go with a fixed blade knife, but there, if I were in a survival situation with a fixed blade knife being my only cutting tool, I highly doubt I would be risking such damage to my only cutting tool by using a baton to drive it through a piece of firewood.

Just my $.02

[Joel]

I agree.  I wasn't really disputing Wolffire's overall point, which is that "batoning" is dumb.  I never heard of this either before a couple of years ago.  I've never done it, and don't anticipate doing it.  Camping, I bring an axe or hatchet.  It's a funny coincidence that just yesterday I was watching some YouTube video reviewing a big CS knife and singing the praises of its ability to be batonned through wood.  The review mentioned that he managed to break one CS knife right in half doing that, but it didn't dampen his enthusiasm for the knife or for the practice. 

I also agree about longer knives.  The most comfortable every-day carry belt knife I own, in terms of length, is an old air force 'survival" knife.  It's got a five-inch blade and for my taste could be shorter yet.  I stopped carrying it when I became a full-time cedar rat and needed a serious knife that would hold a better edge.  Dipping repeatedly into my collection of "owned but not carried" knives I settled on a CS UWK.  It's about 6.5 inches and is really too long for most uses, but holds an edge better than any other knife I own.  Every now and then the greater length redeems itself - it does occasionally get used as a prybar and once as an emergency can opener - when the dogs want their snackies, one of them stole and lost the doghouse can opener and you loaned your multitool to a neighbor and forgot to take it back, that's an emergency as far as the dogs are concerned.  But generally - yeah, I'd really prefer a shorter belt knife.  I drool over those cool RAT cutlery knives, but I'm a cedar rat now.  There's no money for fancies when what I've got works fine.  Hell, I wouldn't even have the satellite connection for yacking here if it didn't provide part of my income.

Sometimes the UWK - or any belt knife - is just too big.  I also carry a Buck penknife that's probably more than half as old as I am.  I don't use it every day, but my goodness it holds a keen edge and sometimes it's the best thing for the job.

But yeah - for splitting wood, carry a hatchet.  That's why God invented them.  Belt knives are for everything else you need a knife for.

[Plainsman]

Everytime I see this question pop up, it's by somebody that hasn't tried batoning properly or to its fullest extent!   I always suggest to these people to try it and perform batoning properly using this article as a reference!  Good luck and have fun experiencing batoning!

http://www.barkriverknives.com/docs/batoning.pdf 

[Locomoco]

I'm not going to get into pro or anti batoning of a knife, but as to why there appears to be a popularity with it?

Seriously, I think it's that Bear Grylls guy that got it more of the public attention.  Quite a number of his shows has him taking out the one knife he's got on him and using it to baton away and (supposedly) create a raft or somethiing.  Won't go into the integrity of his show, just saying he's probably a factor in promoting the use of a knife in that way.

[The Infidel]

I'm not going to get into pro or anti batoning of a knife, but as to why there appears to be a popularity with it?

Seriously, I think it's that Bear Grylls guy that got it more of the public attention.  Quite a number of his shows has him taking out the one knife he's got on him and using it to baton away and (supposedly) create a raft or somethiing.  Won't go into the integrity of his show, just saying he's probably a factor in promoting the use of a knife in that way.

You could be right. Sure wish I could take this guy serious, he seems to possess some good knowledge. I just cant stand to watch his show.

[Hare of Caerbannog]

You could be right. Sure wish I could take this guy serious, he seems to possess some good knowledge. I just cant stand to watch his show.

My thoughts exactly.
Knowing there's a film crew, full grips crew, coordinators, and facilitators all making sure he "finds" the exact item he needs in time to get back to the hotel in time for room service kind of ruins it for me.

[TheRoot]

I was introduced to batoning in scouts in the 80's. Although it is not the optimum way to split tinder it does work.

Of course in ideal conditions I would have chainsaw, axe, hatchet, splitter, etc. but when you consider a large fixed blade knife and their use in a backpacking / camping / survival situation it is much more common that you will have a large fixed blade and your typical EDC (mine is a folding 3"). Not that carrying a hatchet is out of the question, it is just not as common when you have weight considerations and knives that are capable of being batoned as well as being used to clean game and other practical and common blade uses.

I think batoning a knife is a great way to test its durability.

I also carry a small whetstone in my gear to keep blades sharp.

[khristopher23]

Everytime I see this question pop up, it's by somebody that hasn't tried batoning properly or to its fullest extent!   I always suggest to these people to try it and perform batoning properly using this article as a reference!  Good luck and have fun experiencing batoning!

http://www.barkriverknives.com/docs/batoning.pdf 

I don't know man, I might not be as smart as this guy that wrote that article, but from what I gathered from it, the guy broke a knife or two, then went on a quest to figure out why they broke. Myself, being a pretty logical guy IMO, could have pretty much told him the knives broke because he repeatedly beat on them with sticks. Yeah, he might have figured out that if I only hit it this way and not this way, it probably won't break. I think that is taking a pretty big chance with a knife that you might be counting on to survive.

Bottom line is, I wouldn't want to take a chance ruining the only knife I might be carrying, whether it be a survival situation, or just a regular little camping or hiking trip. I guess you could always carry a spare knife, or one just for batoning, but then if you're going to do that, why not just carry a knife and a hatchet?

[Firecraft]

   I find it very difficult to split wood with a hatchet. I have slit a lot of wood with a maul but not an axe or hatchet. Has anyone tried splitting a log or branches from 3 to 8 inches in circumference with a hatchet. to split a 4 inch log with a large knife you hold the log firmly and drive the knife in the center, then hold the handle and strike the knife with a branch. This gives you much more control and is much safer than a hatchet. If your are gathering wood for a fire and don't use accellerants like gas or petroleum jelly, and it is wet out, you might have to split larger dry wood to get tinder that will lite. There is nothing more versatile than a large knife in my opinion. I also don't like lugging a hatchet around.

John

[Mental Avenger]

Might as well get my feet wet here.  I have a Cold Steel Bowie.  It is 15 inches long and weighs 17 ounces.  A Master Bladesmith told me many years ago, “If you’re going to carry a knife, carry a KNIFE”.  I have never had to baton that knife, it chops as good as a small hatchet.

These days I am into compactness and multi-use as much as is practical. This one knife can be used in many different ways, including lashing it to a stout branch to make a spear for hunting or defense.  I have other knives, but if I can only carry one, it will be the Cold Steel Bowie.

[Roknrandy]

I've done it and unless I'm forced to I see it as a waste of energy. I can gather enough small sticks to start a fire and keep it going vs spending time trying to cut up lots of wood into smaller pieces. In a survival situation I'd rather be gather wood and splitting into two pieces then go through all that work. Gather large amount of wood first then do some splitting then start your fire.

[koyote]

Most of my outdoors knives are batonable- it's a basic test, like chopping a brass rod- for me  

Batoning is about a lot more than splitting wood, though the right blade will split wood very efficiently (geometry is more important here than 2% and 5% details on the heat treatment). Batoning is used for notching and chiseling, adzing and shaping. That's where it becomes a big deal.

For the reviewers, batoning is a fairly light test of a knife. it doesn't shatter on impact and has enough inherent flex to deal with the wood pushing on it. It's actually not all that strenuous on a knife if you are splitting medium and light woods with fairly straight grains. It's a lot like the concrete test- dropping a knife point first onto conrecte from 3 feet up shouldn't chip it. You also shouldn't do this after you've started finish sanding on the blade!!!!!!