Author Topic: Storing oil in food storage  (Read 15286 times)

Batete

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Storing oil in food storage
« on: November 17, 2008, 10:52:43 AM »
My wife and I are trying hard to have a food supply that could last our family a year.  One area that is the most difficult is finding oil that will last.  Ideally we'd like something that could last 5-10 years so it can be there in times of trouble.  Most shortening or oils won't last more than a year because of the packaging. 

Does anyone out there know of a reliable way to store oil or purchase it in a container that will store?

Thanks.  Love the show.

Offline Lowdown3

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2008, 01:52:37 PM »
Oil is a rotation item. We get at best about 2 years out of vegetable oil. Everyone says store olive oil, but honestly in 22 years of storing food, I haven't noticed any serious difference in longevity between the two.

Since we store a fairly decent quantity of oil, we usually have to incorporate some into the dog's food when it's time to rotate. Only so many fish frys you can do, and you don't really use that much in the daily rice.

We probably store too much oil, but we don't really grow any crops we could process for oil, so we err on the high side of storage.

We have had good luck with Crisco over 5-6 year periods.

Fats and oils just don't store well long term, unfortunately.

Lowdown3

awayfrmitall

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2008, 03:08:46 PM »
Would the olive oil that's in those big cans maybe last longer than say vegi oil in a jug? Does anyone have any experience with this?

I know that we've had the same can of crisco for about 3 years. I just went and opened it and it doesn't smell/taste rancid but I do kep it in a very cool place since it is something I do not use often at all.


Offline creuzerm

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2008, 07:12:16 PM »
I am waiting for the big sales in cooking oil after Thanksgiving. I may pick up a gallon or two. I think I will get one after thanksgiving when they go on sale.

If I remember correctly, they went on an even bigger sale after Christmas. I will get one then too.

I need to get those fancy little oil pourers and the right sized funnel for them.

Offline Lowdown3

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2008, 07:05:28 AM »
Hmmmmm, good point about oil going on sale, I'll have to check on that. I've never seen "staples" really on sale much.

Definitely check the dates, could be them rotating old stock also.

Earth Monk

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2008, 04:58:14 PM »
Definitely rotate the stock.
We use Olive oil for mast daily use, but have a huge section of Crisco and regular veg oil. I consider it to be tradeable for bartering if I have overestimated. I have not reached a point where I think any of my shelf stock has gone bad. I have about two years of use on shelf with most in Crisco, and some in veg, very little (four 1 litre bottles of the olive we rotate and use regularly due to cost) sitting there.
Conversely, I spent several months in Cyprus some years back, and they would press olive oils in a primitive way with nothing more than a large stone wheel in a trough. In Region 8, there are a load of olive orchards to barter with. Consider your strengths and focus there.
Hope this helps,
-Ras

Offline Taylor3006

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2008, 04:15:19 PM »
I have a couple ideas for vege oil. I plan on buying vege oil, vitamins and powdered milk at the onset of a crisis, no matter what the price. I have stored according to what stores the longest (ie starting with salt, sugar, wheat, etc) and working my way down the list to beans, rice, coffee, tea, etc. The last things on the list to buy are the things that store the shortest amount of time. That is one strategy and is fraught with it's own dangers. The "rotation" idea is good providing you use that much oil (I do not). If you must store oil then an idea that was discussed many years ago back when the internet was still linked BBS's and that I always thought was a good idea, is storing your oil and then when it expires you use it to make soap. If memory serves olive oil was the best choice for cooking and soapmaking. The general feeling was that most people use lots of soap (well as long as you are not French ;) and that if you could not use it all, you could give it as gifts and soapmaking was a good skill to develop for survivalists/homesteaders. The other idea for people who wanted oil on hand was to donate it prior to expiration date for a tax write off to recoup some of your expense. Anyways just my two cents.

Offline Lowdown3

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2008, 11:59:04 AM »
Olive oil is used in "castile" soap, IIRC from soapmaking class. Supposedly a very soft soap.

Once oil goes rancid I wouldn't use it for soap though.

Offline ejsandstrom

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2008, 08:26:42 AM »
Anyone store lard? I see it under montiquia (sp?) in the spanish foods section.

Offline Stein

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2008, 10:06:36 PM »
Transfat oil stores well, but has a toxic quality that many prefer to avoid.

I thought of the same thing and the only conclusion I came to was to rotate stock.  We have a fish or empanada fry every once in a while to move through a gallon of vegetable oil.  It isn't too expensive to have a couple gallons on hand which could go very far in an emergency.

Offline Taylor3006

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2008, 10:49:24 PM »
Anyone store lard? I see it under montiquia (sp?) in the spanish foods section.

Nothing says food safety like mexican lard.... I would think it would go rancid like any other animal fat, not sure of it's shelf life but I wouldn't give it more than a year or so.

Offline phil_in_cs

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2008, 07:36:11 AM »
Oils are vitally important if you have small children; not only are they needed for growth and development, they literally can't eat enough beans and rice to get enough calories in. In Nuclear War Survival Skills, Cresson Kearny says that when he was in China supporting the Nationalist forces during WWII, he saw children starve to death even though rice was plentiful, as they simply couldn't get enough in their small stomachs.

We use olive oil exclusively when cooking in normal times. Trans fat free canola and corn oils are cheap enough that we can store a couple of gallons, and rotate those out to our church food pantry before the expiration date. We have quite a bit of olive oil too, which we rotate through.

Your spoilage factors for oil are light and oxygen. In answer to an earlier question, a can would store longer than a bottle, since it won't let the light in. Our solution though is just to get the plastic containers and keep them in a dark place in the bigger pantry.  Any container once opened will start to deteriorate.

Offline GlenM

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2008, 09:27:28 PM »
Is it possible to use rancid oil including olive oil with diesel fuel in my VW diesel jetta?  I'm figuring out what to do with the rancid oil.

Offline archer

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2008, 10:39:28 AM »
Do some research on it. I've considered the same thing and came back that it might work with no problems. But now my diesel has other problems so I'm holding off possibly adding any more...

Offline Heavy G

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2009, 08:19:34 AM »
(This thread has been selected as a “best of” thread by Heavy G.  You can search for “best of” threads by using that term in the search mode.  Everyone on the forum is encouraged to reply to a post they think is “best of” worthy so we can all search for them.  For more information on the “best of” thing, see http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=3423.0 )

bioboy

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2009, 03:05:11 PM »
I think due to chemical properties of food oil your not going to locate a natural source of it that will last that long (if you do I don't thing nature made it). With proper rotation the 2 years (some say 18 months) should fit into your requirement nicely keep it sealed and in a dark place. Not everything will last 15 years in food stuff it's part of the reason I want my own animals and plan on hunting (animal fat = lard) . If your stuck in the city try  changing your diet to what you plan on eating in a survival situation then store the amount of oil you need each week for a year. Space your purchases out over the year to make sure it isn't all going to go bad at the same time. I store more rice and flour then I do oil and I have less milk on hand then oil. It's about how long will stuff last not about finding stuff that will last forever.

I do have a question though why would you store enough oil that if it goes rancid it's a financial worry? I'm not going to store a great deal more then I need for period I am storing for. I don't put in more flour then I can use in say 2 years or so and if something has a short shelf life life I look for an alternative. Right now I'm looking into the theory you can swap corn starch and water for eggs for baking (going to try it out and see how it tastes). For me I plan on doing any "frying" in water or soup base if SHTF baking I'll use my olive Oils for that.

bioboy

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2009, 03:33:03 PM »
Oils are vitally important if you have small children; not only are they needed for growth and development, they literally can't eat enough beans and rice to get enough calories in. In Nuclear War Survival Skills, Cresson Kearny says that when he was in China supporting the Nationalist forces during WWII, he saw children starve to death even though rice was plentiful, as they simply couldn't get enough in their small stomachs.

Not to be an ass but I couldn't let this one pass as I don't want people think that the problem is stomach size and think that as adults they don't have to worry about proper food intake. As this could lead to someones death. 

I don't think it's a matter of stomach size if you think about then the body should generate a signal that you need more intake. It probally has more to do with the need for different proteins and nutrients needed for survival. After all it is possible also to eat only rabbits and starve to death. Considering that meat protein has a great deal of energy in it and full grown men have died eating it because of the lack of needed fatty acids. You can't eat just one food and survive there needs to be balance. Oil/fat is used to make certain hormones for you as well as it's part of Vitamin D, your cell membranes (which are replicating daily) and bile production for digestion.

Even in our survival preps we should try and include many different types of foods. Oils and fats are essential. You can make due without meat as vegans and vegetarians the world over have proven. (not fun but doable)     

Link about fats
http://www.bostonscientific.com/templatedata/imports/HTML/lifebeatonline/winter2004/recovery.shtml
Also if you want I can find the section in a couple biology texts that cover it


sphincter

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2009, 08:05:00 PM »
One of the ways we store fat is on a hog. That being said, lard is a long term storage item suitable for frying and biscuit making. Many cookie and and cake recipes will work well with apple sauce substituted for oil. There are other options........but we store oil as well. It is one of the items that we will pitch out and rotate as necessary.

I decided years ago that the only way to store food for years is to rotate. I also decided the worst that could happen is I would have many items to give away so that they can be used before they go bad. Oil is one of those items.

I would rather have these items on hand and dump them when time to replace tan to go without. Stress time are bad enough, without doing away with all forms of comfort.

Climate control is important for oils and other items. I have food storage on my place that never exceeds 70 deg. and most of the summer it is 68. I do this with a window unit and insulation in an area 16'X12'. It cost a litle on the electric bill but the canned goods and dry goods alike do much better than when in temp swings. Oil stays better too.

I have olive oil in this area that is in excess of 4 years old and it is as good as the day it was bottled. By the way......I have found that olive oil is great for light heat cooking, but I never fry in it because it burns easily. We use lard and veggie oil for most fry jobs. My experience is also that Crisco type oils last better than the plastic bottled liquid.

Sphincter

bioboy

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2009, 09:22:34 AM »
Now this is a question I have about this. How if your rotating do you wind up with waste. How much are you expecting your needs to climb in a survival versus daily life. We are not at the year level yet but I'm planning with the concept of having a year supply of oil since it stores for two years/18 months which means we need 52 litres we use about a bottle a week and each bottle is one litre.  So at 2 bottles a week purchased we should have a years supply within a year then begin to buy a single bottle a week from that point. Putting the bottle you bought this week into storage and pulling out the one in storage from 1 year ago. Still leaving a comfortable difference of a year.     

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2009, 10:08:21 AM »
This is a tricky one for us.  I am trying to only eat natural foods.... and Crisco (which stores FOREVER) is NOT a natural food.  Mostly, around here we use EVOO, butter, coconut oil and occasionally lard.  None of these store all that well.  I do have some of that canned butter (how long does that last anyway?  when should I plan to rotate that out?)  You can bottle butter, and pork... can you bottle lard (not that we use it often)?


We bought some EVOO that is in cans that the people claim will last 5-10 years if unopened and kept cool.  I sure hope that is true because we have 12 gal of it!  But if not, I do make soap.....
On the other hand, we are going to be rotating it in our normal eating habits, and castille soap is very soft and melt-y....

Offline Heavy G

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2009, 10:39:02 AM »

Crisco (which stores FOREVER) is NOT a natural food. 


Is it true that Crisco stores well for long periods of time?  Can someone verfity that (I believe you, Morning Sunshine, I just want a verfication.)  Like, how long does it store?

I, too, don't want to eat Crisco if I can avoid it.  But I don't want to forget to rotate my oil and have no way to cook if SHTF.  Besides, trans fats will be the least of our concerns if SHTF.

Michael Masse

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2009, 10:52:19 AM »
A great point which can not be over emphasised.  When I was a teenage working for the KFC in a hot kitchen we made every effort to either keep the chicken cold or process it quickly.  Temperature was you best friend if it is cool but your worst enemy when it is warm.

Keep your oils as cool and in the dark as best you can.

My kitchen is 70 degrees plus year round and Plus Plus during the summer time.

My storage room is never above 65 and generally around 60 degrees. 

Just that ten degrees will double the shelf life of many items.

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2009, 11:19:23 AM »
Is it true that Crisco stores well for long periods of time?  Can someone verfity that (I believe you, Morning Sunshine, I just want a verfication.)  Like, how long does it store?

I, too, don't want to eat Crisco if I can avoid it.  But I don't want to forget to rotate my oil and have no way to cook if SHTF.  Besides, trans fats will be the least of our concerns if SHTF.

I had to laugh at that last sentence - so very true!

ok, maybe not FOREVER, http://www.crisco.com/About_Crisco/faqs.aspx#faq_long,  but compared to most oils..... besides, crisco makes a nice firm soap and if all else fails, you could use it to season your cast iron.....

so maybe I will get some to store for non-eating rotation purposes, but it will be there for SHTF... on the other hand, that whole "do not introduce a new food in times of crisis" idea might be good argument for avoiding it anyway.


sphincter

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2009, 02:53:34 PM »
I had to laugh at that last sentence - so very true!

ok, maybe not FOREVER, http://www.crisco.com/About_Crisco/faqs.aspx#faq_long,  but compared to most oils..... besides, crisco makes a nice firm soap and if all else fails, you could use it to season your cast iron.....

so maybe I will get some to store for non-eating rotation purposes, but it will be there for SHTF... on the other hand, that whole "do not introduce a new food in times of crisis" idea might be good argument for avoiding it anyway.

I have found this to be a very conservative figure for Shortening. I have the stuff sitting on the same shelf for 4 to 5 years...I recently opened a 4 yaer old can, and it works just fine. You can fry the hell out of chicken with it.

Temperature control of your stored preps will make a lot of difference in the amount tf time it takes for a product to go bad. One of my storage locations never exceeds 70 Deg. In the summer. I live in South Carolina, and our summers are always hot and dry much of it 90 plus degrees.

I said earlier that  i believe that rotation is the only way and you have to take it on as a life style if you are going to put away a year plus of stored food for a family. Is is a part time job. It can be expensive, and it sometime requires a coop of people to pull it off.

Sphincter

sphincter

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2009, 02:56:13 PM »
I don't know how I screwed up that last post and got all of my typing in the quote line. Sorry folks.....I know how to store food, but i do not know much about how this forum operates.

Sphincter

Mizer

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2009, 03:53:27 PM »
I think you basically have 3 options for extending oil shelf-life.
  • Refrigeration, or cooler temperatures
  • Preservatives, natural or otherwise
  • Hydrogenation, trans fat anyone..?

Partially & fully hydrogenated oils, such as Crisco have a very long shelf life. This is one reason the food industry uses these trans fats in many processed foods; the shelf life is artificially extended.

Some suggest adding the antioxidant (preservative) BHT to olive oil to keep it from turning rancid.  BHT may or may not be unhealthy, there is evidence on both sides of the issue.  I tend to trust nature and avoid anything synthetic, regardless of medical claims.

Tropical oils such as coconut and palm oils have good shelf life. They are also healthier than vegetable oils.

Coconut oil can last for about five years, but after about three years you can taste a difference.  I eat coconut oil daily & use it to season my cast iron.

Palm oil contains natural antioxidants and vitamin E.  Its antioxidants prevent it from becoming rancid as quickly, and make it a healthier oil for cooking and frying.  Natural palm oil is bright red/orange, the color given to it by Carotenoids. (CAROTenoids, the same thing that give carrots their pigment, and sight protecting qualities.)


Just wanted to throw around some ideas for people to research on their own.  High quality palm, palm kernel, and coconut oils aren't as common or as cheap as things like Crisco, but are worth it in my opinion. 


Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2009, 04:26:30 PM »
so, Mizer, where do you buy your coconut oil?  I have only been able to find it in small containers from Walmart, and it doesn't have a strong coconut flavor, two factors (walmart and flavor) which tell me that it is probably over processed and not a good coconut oil.  I use it in my soap, but also for frying foods and in baked goods where butter or olive oil isn't going to cut it.  I would like to use it in more places, but I want a different source before I use it more....
and 3 years shelf life - I can handle that in a rotation.

Mizer

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2009, 05:10:13 PM »
i think i started out with the same coconut oil from walmart, and noticed it had zero flavor as well. in fact its still sitting in my cupboard

i've never found any coconut oil in large quantities as stores so i just buy it online now. i usually buy it here. they have sample sizes and a lot of info to read. hope this helps

Offline flippydidit

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2013, 04:56:05 AM »
I know this is an older post, but Morning Sunshine directed me to it.  I'm looking into how to process my own olive oil.  Living in Florida has it's perks.  I'm thinking that by growing my own olive trees, that this rotated food source could be a lot more manageable.  It's also nice to know how/where it was made and have yet another "need" for barter in the future.

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Storing oil in food storage
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2013, 08:13:24 AM »
Flippy - it cannot be that hard to do without electricity - folks have been doing it for thousands of years.  I have seen a homemade oil press somewhere.  Maybe between kids throwing up I can find you some plans.  :P