Author Topic: Alternative to EPI Pen  (Read 57519 times)

Offline OKGranny

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Re: Alternative to EPI Pen
« Reply #60 on: April 21, 2010, 12:41:28 AM »
Dainty, I wasn't actually aiming that remark at you, it was more of a general statement. I thought your questions were good ones but unfortunately I phrased my post in a way that bothered you instead of the general 'I wouldn't want to try it' that I meant. Anaphalactic shock is a nightmare. You can't breathe, your brain is refusing to work right, if at all, because it isn't getting any oxygen and you know you're in serious, serious trouble. Sorry, re-reading this I'm not doing any better at explaining than I did the first time. I'll shut up now.  :P

Offline VShen

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Re: Alternative to EPI Pen
« Reply #61 on: July 11, 2014, 09:32:15 AM »
Hi all - I know this is an old thread, but I'm a newbie that just found this forum.  Had a scary moment when my boyfriend (who has a severe latex allergy) was in a random shop and started getting light-headed and wheezy.  We got him out of there and it took a few hours to recover, but he doesn't carry an epi-pen and now I'm wondering what alternatives I could use.  Most of the posts on this thread seem to be related to bee-stings, I'm wondering if Benadryl would work for him as well.

Offline archer

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Re: Alternative to EPI Pen
« Reply #62 on: July 11, 2014, 03:40:16 PM »
Benedryl should work, carry it with you.

Offline RangerRick

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Re: Alternative to EPI Pen
« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2014, 06:17:52 PM »
I too am new here. I have 40 years in emergency medicine with Special Forces and when in town, Red Cross Disaster Teams , local Volunteer Fire/EMS service & Missionary groups. I teach Survival and Emergency Preparedness to various groups at the local University. Be sure to follow local proto calls.
I have used an Epi that was 8 years old and it worked just fine. There is a sight glass in the unit and as long as the fluid is clear I would use it. I do back up with Benadryl 100 mg in stings.
You can also take apart the unit-( Be very Careful-strong spring) and get two more doses out the  Epi pen.
Best Regards,
RangerRick




I am a newbie to this forum but an old hand at prepping, so i hope i am not stepping on any toes since this is my first post. Here goes-Benadryl (generic name diphenhydramine) can help an allergic reaction, But the form of it, whether liquid or tablet does not matter, only the total MG given matters. No, it cannot replace an EPIPEN (which is epinephrine, or adrenalin to us old geezers) for an anphylactic shock reaction where the trachea and respiratory system have problems. BUT keeping an epipen isn't easy either because they have such a short shelf life(most of the ones i get in my pharmacy have about 1 yr on them if i am lucky) and they are very expensive. Bottom line is keep benadryl in your emergency kit and epipen only if you have someone with verifiable allergies to insect stings mainly. IMHO thanks

Offline G Speed

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Re: Alternative to EPI Pen
« Reply #64 on: August 11, 2014, 03:57:59 PM »
Hey new here,

Hoping someone could answer a few questions...
Why after administering an epi-pen, do you have to go the hospital?
What I'm trying to say, is at the hospital all they do is giving you the epi/adrenaline.. at the same time they just monitor blood pressure/heart rate etc... for a short while and your off....

Disregarding everything else that epi does, but focusing on the fact it has the same affect as an antihistamine.. blocking chemicals..
Is the point of taking Benadryl, before epi and after.. to not have a reaction again?
Scenario.. eat a peanut.. take a liquid Benadryl... wait 30 minutes.... administer epi-pen.. followed by more liquid Benadryl...

What I understand is that the epi-pen will "treat" anaphylaxis, but the Benadryl actually treats the original reaction?
Which means the Benadryl, once in your system should prevent another reaction? Or is't the Epi doing the real heavy lifiting and the Benadryl is just backup?

Also I didn't see in this tread the mention of taking Prednisone? To prevent the reoccurrence of the reaction?

Thanks!



endurance

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Re: Alternative to EPI Pen
« Reply #65 on: August 11, 2014, 04:22:18 PM »
Hey new here,

Hoping someone could answer a few questions...
Why after administering an epi-pen, do you have to go the hospital?
What I'm trying to say, is at the hospital all they do is giving you the epi/adrenaline.. at the same time they just monitor blood pressure/heart rate etc... for a short while and your off....

Disregarding everything else that epi does, but focusing on the fact it has the same affect as an antihistamine.. blocking chemicals..
Is the point of taking Benadryl, before epi and after.. to not have a reaction again?
Scenario.. eat a peanut.. take a liquid Benadryl... wait 30 minutes.... administer epi-pen.. followed by more liquid Benadryl...

What I understand is that the epi-pen will "treat" anaphylaxis, but the Benadryl actually treats the original reaction?
Which means the Benadryl, once in your system should prevent another reaction? Or is't the Epi doing the real heavy lifiting and the Benadryl is just backup?

Also I didn't see in this tread the mention of taking Prednisone? To prevent the reoccurrence of the reaction?

Thanks!
You have to go to the hospital because you have bought yourself time, but you haven't necessarily cured the problem.  Epi works in a number of ways to manage anaphylaxis:  It's a vaso-constrictor and stops the blood pressure drop associated with an anaphylactic reaction in the body.  It increases the heart rate, which improves tissue profusion.  It relaxes the muscles in the upper respiratory system to ease breathing.  These things in concert stop the crisis, but you may still have a sufficient amount of the allergen in your system to restart the cascade once the drug wears off. 

Benadryl, on the other hand, is a histamine-blocker designed to stop the histamine response.  It's not fast acting enough to save a life in most cases and balancing the amount needed to stop the cascade takes monitoring with the possibility of other interventions needed (possibly more epi).  If you really are having an anaphylactic reaction, you don't have 30 minutes to wait and observe.  You may go into an irretrievable spiral of shock that leads to death.  A wait and see attitude just might kill you.

And prednisone is not a long-term treatment for anything.  The stuff is horrendous on the body long-term.  It's sometimes used as a stopgap measure to reduce inflammation, but it's not something folks can stay on indefinitely. 

Offline G Speed

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Re: Alternative to EPI Pen
« Reply #66 on: August 11, 2014, 06:19:13 PM »
You have to go to the hospital because you have bought yourself time, but you haven't necessarily cured the problem.  Epi works in a number of ways to manage anaphylaxis:  It's a vaso-constrictor and stops the blood pressure drop associated with an anaphylactic reaction in the body.  It increases the heart rate, which improves tissue profusion.  It relaxes the muscles in the upper respiratory system to ease breathing.  These things in concert stop the crisis, but you may still have a sufficient amount of the allergen in your system to restart the cascade once the drug wears off. 

Benadryl, on the other hand, is a histamine-blocker designed to stop the histamine response.  It's not fast acting enough to save a life in most cases and balancing the amount needed to stop the cascade takes monitoring with the possibility of other interventions needed (possibly more epi).  If you really are having an anaphylactic reaction, you don't have 30 minutes to wait and observe.  You may go into an irretrievable spiral of shock that leads to death.  A wait and see attitude just might kill you.

And prednisone is not a long-term treatment for anything.  The stuff is horrendous on the body long-term.  It's sometimes used as a stopgap measure to reduce inflammation, but it's not something folks can stay on indefinitely.

Thanks, I was given the prednisone, for when I go backpacking. Should make my immune system turn off lol
To prevent a reocurrence.

endurance

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Re: Alternative to EPI Pen
« Reply #67 on: August 11, 2014, 08:16:21 PM »
Thanks, I was given the prednisone, for when I go backpacking. Should make my immune system turn off lol
To prevent a reocurrence.
Interesting choice.

Quote
The following side effects are associated with prednisone oral:
Common side effects of prednisone oral:
Infection   Severe
Conditions of Excess Stomach Acid Secretion   Less Severe
Chronic Trouble Sleeping   Less Severe
Increased Hunger   Less Severe
Nervous   Less Severe
Infrequent side effects of prednisone oral:
Bleeding of the Stomach or Intestines   Severe
Thin Fragile Skin   Severe
Osteoporosis   Severe
Diabetes   Severe
Cushing's Syndrome   Severe
Low Amount of Calcium in the Blood   Severe
Small Red Skin Lesions caused by Dilated Blood Vessels   Less Severe
Irregular Periods   Less Severe
Dry Skin   Less Severe
Puffy Face from Water Retention   Less Severe
High Blood Sugar   Less Severe
Rare side effects of prednisone oral:
Pseudotumor Cerebri   Severe
Disease of the Nerves   Severe
Muscle Problems   Severe
Increased Pressure in the Eye   Severe
Increased Pressure in Eyes   Severe
Cataracts   Severe
High Blood Pressure   Severe
Complete Stoppage of the Heart   Severe
Slow Heartbeat   Severe
Abnormal Heart Rhythm   Severe
Chronic Heart Failure   Severe
Obstruction of a Blood Vessel by a Blood Clot   Severe
Obstruction of Blood Vessel caused by a Fat Globule   Severe
Vasculitis   Severe
Blood Clot in Vein   Severe
Fluid in the Lungs   Severe
Ulcers of Esophagus   Severe
Ulcer from Stomach Acid   Severe
Acute Inflammation of the Pancreas   Severe
Lupus-Like Syndrome   Severe
Rupture of a Tendon   Severe
Delirium   Severe
Hallucination   Severe
Seizures   Severe
Trouble Breathing   Severe
Enlarged Liver   Severe
Abnormal Liver Function Tests   Severe
Broken Bone   Severe
Impaired Wound Healing   Severe
Life Threatening Allergic Reaction   Severe
Reaction due to an Allergy   Severe
Kaposi's   Severe
Insufficiency of the Hypothalamus and Pituitary Gland   Severe
A Rupture in the Wall of the Stomach or Intestine   Severe
Anemia   Severe
Large Purple or Brown Skin Blotches   Severe
Decreased Neutrophils a Type of White Blood Cell   Severe
Mood Changes   Severe
Paranoia   Severe
Mental Disturbance   Severe
False Sense of Well-Being   Severe
Extreme Sense of Well Being   Less Severe
Depression   Less Severe
Blurred Vision   Less Severe
Optic Disk Edema   Less Severe
Hemorrhage of Blood Under the Skin   Less Severe
Absence of Menstrual Periods   Less Severe
Problem with Periods   Less Severe
Inflammation of Skin caused by an Allergy   Less Severe
Redness of Skin   Less Severe
Skin Stretch Marks   Less Severe
Excessive Hairiness   Less Severe
Acne   Less Severe
Hives   Less Severe
Joint Pain   Less Severe
Muscle Weakness   Less Severe
Loss of Memory   Less Severe
Feeling Faint   Less Severe
Sensation of Spinning or Whirling   Less Severe
Dizzy   Less Severe
Excessive Sweating   Less Severe
Rash   Less Severe
Visible Water Retention   Less Severe
Small Reddish-Purplish Pin-Point Sized Spots on the Skin   Less Severe
Scaling of Skin   Less Severe
Weight Gain   Less Severe
Head Pain   Less Severe
Fast Heartbeat   Less Severe
Hiccups   Less Severe
Feel Like Throwing Up   Less Severe
Swelling of the Abdomen   Less Severe
The Presence of Sugar in the Urine   Less Severe
Numbness and Tingling   Less Severe
Not Feeling Well   Less Severe
Overactive Thyroid Gland   Less Severe
Underactive Thyroid   Less Severe
Water Retention   Less Severe
Abnormal Fat Distribution   Less Severe
Confused   Less Severe
Over Excitement   Less Severe
Disorder involving Personality Changes   Less Severe
 

Offline G Speed

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Re: Alternative to EPI Pen
« Reply #68 on: August 12, 2014, 05:46:44 AM »
100% garbage stuff, but if I'm out in the wild... not much choice.

At least, it should prevent the reoccurrence of a reaction again.

Also those side effects, seem to be from long term usage.. Short term is more so nausea..