Where's all the interest in airguns?

[kimrpeterson]

 


This is the .45 caliber Pre-Charged-Pneumatic (PCP) air rifle that my overly-manly, yet overtly considerate
and attentive husband is developing.
 
It has a 5-shot magazine. The 4,000 PSI held in the titanium air cylinder is regulated down to 2,800 PSI for 5 even shots.
 
The goal is a 250 grain bullet going 850 FPS for 400 FPE. After the 5th shot, the air in the tank (on both sides of the regulator) will have dropped to 2,500 PSI and it will drop further with each successive shot.
Anything after the first 5 shots is considered backup until you get back to the SCUBA tank, compressor,
or "bicycle-style" pump used to re-fill a PCP.
 
Airguns tend to be heavier than powder-burners because they don't use lightweight gunpowder to make power. Target weight for this rifle is 8-1/2 LBS.

[DeltaEchoVictor]

Well...damn.

I'm in.  When I can pre-order?

[timsuggs]

That is cool!  Give us more!  And thanks!

Tim.

[Roknrandy]

I'm just staring to look at pellet rifles, wow they have changed in the last 25 years! most of the low/mid priced units are 1000fps or slightly better

[timsuggs]

Have you two considered a pistol version? 

Tim. 

[NC Rifleman]

Well first off I know little to nothing about airguns.  What advantages do they have over conventional rifles, shotguns, and handguns? 

[kimrpeterson]

This is a DAQ .308 Exile built by Dennis Quackenbush.
It makes 248 FPE of energy on a 4,000 PSI fill from a SCUBA tank.
Each shot gets weaker as the 300cc's of air is used, but any of the first 8 shots
can take a deer at 20 to 80 yards.
DAQ .308  4,000 PSI Fill   
7/14/08         
Shot#      Pellet Wt   FPS            Ft/Lbs                                                Pellet Brand
1             157.7        843           248.6                                                 Jay Woodcock.
2             157.7        816           233.1                                                 Jay Woodcock.
3             157.7        794           220.6                                                 Jay Woodcock.
4             157.7        772           208.5                                                 Jay Woodcock.
5             157.7        749           196.4                                                 Jay Woodcock.
6             157.7        720           181.6                                                 Jay Woodcock.
7             157.7        683           163.4                                                 Jay Woodcock.
8             157.7        656           150.9                                                 Jay Woodcock.

Since I consider my husband more of an expert on airguns, I will have him give more information and answer any questions later today.  He eats and breathes this stuff!

[Ultio1]

 


This is the .45 caliber Pre-Charged-Pneumatic (PCP) air rifle that my overly-manly, yet overtly considerate
and attentive husband is developing.
 
It has a 5-shot magazine. The 4,000 PSI held in the titanium air cylinder is regulated down to 2,800 PSI for 5 even shots.
 
The goal is a 250 grain bullet going 850 FPS for 400 FPE. After the 5th shot, the air in the tank (on both sides of the regulator) will have dropped to 2,500 PSI and it will drop further with each successive shot.
Anything after the first 5 shots is considered backup until you get back to the SCUBA tank, compressor,
or "bicycle-style" pump used to re-fill a PCP.
 
Airguns tend to be heavier than powder-burners because they don't use lightweight gunpowder to make power. Target weight for this rifle is 8-1/2 LBS.

SWEET JESUS!
 How long will it before we can buy these? I know what I want for next christmas.

[kimrpeterson]

It's probably going to be 6-10 months before my husband has the first production run ready to sell.  At this time, he has ordered Lothar-Walther barrels, Timney triggers, Steve Corcoran custom stocks, and he is getting bids on the other parts for the gun.  I will keep everyone updated on our progress.

[DIM TIM]

This is a DAQ .308 Exile built by Dennis Quackenbush.
It makes 248 FPE of energy on a 4,000 PSI fill from a SCUBA tank.
Each shot gets weaker as the 300cc's of air is used, but any of the first 8 shots
can take a deer at 20 to 80 yards.
DAQ .308  4,000 PSI Fill   
7/14/08         
Shot#      Pellet Wt   FPS            Ft/Lbs                                                Pellet Brand
1             157.7        843           248.6                                                 Jay Woodcock.
2             157.7        816           233.1                                                 Jay Woodcock.
3             157.7        794           220.6                                                 Jay Woodcock.
4             157.7        772           208.5                                                 Jay Woodcock.
5             157.7        749           196.4                                                 Jay Woodcock.
6             157.7        720           181.6                                                 Jay Woodcock.
7             157.7        683           163.4                                                 Jay Woodcock.
8             157.7        656           150.9                                                 Jay Woodcock.

Since I consider my husband more of an expert on airguns, I will have him give more information and answer any questions later today.  He eats and breathes this stuff!

  WOW ! How lucky are you? I found his website quite a while back, and would have loved to had one of these beauties. Only thing was the lottery type of deal on the ownership of one of them. I would have loved one of these for sure.
 I have had a few BB rifles over the years as a kid and a teen, but never a decent air rifle till this past Christmas when I got a .177 rifle that shoots at a blistering 1000 F.P.S. made by the RUGER arms company. Sort of the middle of the road price wise, but still a nice air rifle.
I love to shoot things like those pumpkin, pod creatures, and dont forget those evil watermellons as well. You can punch some serious holes in those soda can, transformers. They make some good ones, because you can see, as well as hear the strikes in their little metal insides. 
I just got my son his first air rifle as well. He got a Daisy, 1938 Red Rider.
We took it out in the backyard the day after Christmas. We set up a couple soda cans at the side of his playhouse, using it as a backstop.
His first shot missed, but the next one rang out, and the look on his face was  enought to tell me that we had something in common that we can share as a fun thing together.
Air rifles are great to begin with, and add to that, the fact that they can shoot some larger projectiles well.............
Wish you guys the best with yours. Looks to be some rough times ahead for all of us folks that own weapons no matter what type. Sure wish a lot more folks were better educated about the thing. But this is a far from perfect world for sure.

[Dan]

Wow, I like it. I have gone back and forth over the decision to buy a good air rifle but haven't because most of them are .177 or .22 caliber. But .45  You have piqued my interest.

[ModernSurvival]

Kim,

what is the target price going to be on these?  Got to say it is one heck of great set of specs!

[rickpeterson]

Jack,

I hope to keep the price of the RP45 at $1,999.99 and not a penny more.

I know, that's more than most of the airguns mentioned on the Survival Podcast (or just about anywhere else), and, as far as the typical post-apocalypse survivalist is concerned, I'm not completely sure it will offer as much bang for the buck (literally) as a Sam Yang 909 .45 (available at Pyramidair.com for about $600.00), but, for the severely whacked-out airgun addict (self-included), it will be a must-have.


The power will be on par with a .357 powder-burning pistol. The accuracy will be better, and the features and workmanship will make it collectable (to the aforementioned addict.)
 
I'm nearly as drawn to the Survival and Sustainability routine as Kim is, but before 1-19-2009 passed into the history books I'm not sure I could make the case for any real-world advantage that air rifles offer over powder-burners.

After 1-20-09 our world is headed for change we can believe in. The good news is that in just about every place but New York, Chicago and San Francisco, airgun's are not considered firearms.

As we evolve from the 1950's USA, to France to 1917-ish Russia, to the Dark Ages, my hope is that the RP45 will be passed on from Sky-scraper to Log Cabin to Cave.

...........and even if things don't get that bad, it will make a terrific wall-hanger and a heck-of-a conversation starter.

Here are some good airgun links:

Yellowforum.com (The best all-around airgun site with the best classifieds in the known universe)
http://www.glbarnes.com/ (Sells the most expensive airguns you're likely to find)
http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/ (shows a Buffalo shot with one of his airguns)
Pyramidair.com (The Largest retailer of mid-priced airguns in the USA)
Airgunsofarizona.com (The largest retailer of high-end airguns in the USA)
Yellowforum.com (The best all-around airgun site with the best classifieds in the known universe)
http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/classifieds.php (The 2nd best airgun classified site in the USA)
http://airgunadvice.net/ (A hech-uv-a good high-end airgun site with emphasis on high-end Theoben Rapid's)

I've posted a link to thesurvivalpodcast.com on my favorite airgun forum: yellowforum.com and I think there is a lot of cross-over.

[Sister Wolf]

I must be missing something.  Why would anybody waste $1900+ on a gun that can only shoot 5 shots before it has to be "recharged"?

If you were looking for a gun for dry-fire exercises (other than, say, a real gun), then spending that much money would make no sense.  If you were looking for a gun for hunting (which I assume is what you would use an air rifle like this one for) then are you really going to bring an air compressor with you for the entire hunt?  I mean, really??  Besides being completely ridiculous, I get the sneaking suspicion that it's about as legal as hunting with a paint-ball gun**.

I guess there are paint ball guns that are probably as expensive as that, though.  Do you shoot people with these air guns?  Like the paint ball people do with their little war-games?  Or are these meant as honest-to-goodness weapons?  And if they are... are you going to be reaching for your air gun for protection at some point in the future?  I can just see somebody doing that, and then realizing that the charging pump thing is down in the garage, and their $2000 conversation starter is about as useful in protection as the Van Gogh reproduction oil painting hanging over the bed.

If you're dying to spend $2000 on a gun, a new Kimber would be a much, much more sound investment, in my opinion.

I haven't had a chance to listen to the airgun episode of TSP yet, but I'm going to need to do it now.  Like I said, I must be missing something.

**EDIT: Apparently it's not illegal (at least, not according to the quackenbush website).  I stand by the statement that it's a totally ridiculous way to hunt, though.

[John Willis]

If you search pellet hunting pigs on you-tube there are a bunch of guys shooting hogs with 50 cal pellet guns. I want to check out the Air force funs.

To the original poster--that looks awsome.

John Willis
www.SOEtacticalgear.com

[ModernSurvival]

I must be missing something.  Why would anybody waste $1900+ on a gun that can only shoot 5 shots before it has to be "recharged"?

Just a few reasons

1.  Challenge - Same reason I bow hunt

2.  Owning something that is truly custom and hand made.  The Kimber you mentioned is a great gun but it is still a "production gun".

3.  Some people love airguns and want the best available.  Many would say spening that 2K on a Kimber is a bad idea to, why not buy a 75 Dollar Mosin, it makes game just as dead?

4.  Not likely to be ceased in a gun ban/grab

5.  Requires no gun powder, as long as you have a mold and any source of meltable metal you have ammo

6.  Not regulated as a firearm so you can discharge it where discharge of a firearm is prohibited by law

Did you know that even Lewis and Clark took a big bore air gun with them?  Simply because gun powder could get wet, go bad and/or run out.

[Tycoon]

I must be missing something.  Why would anybody waste $1900+ on a gun that can only shoot 5 shots before it has to be "recharged"?

Lol, Why? Have you seen what people spend their money on these days. The "Why" is simply "Because they can and want to", in addition to Jack's more practical points for this type of gun. It's like saying why is that person buying that Porsche when he can buy a Civic for a hell of a lot less. Not everything is a matter of practicality. Better believe that living in California I'm looking at these types of weapons very closely. It doesn't take 5 shots to kill somebody and if this gun can bring down deer it can sure as hell bring down a human trying to harm my family. This of course would not be my first choice of weapons but may be my only choice some day.....

[timsuggs]

Along another line of thought in airgun "interest"...  I have always wanted to design and build a simple, gravity feed (like a paintball hopper), continuous flow pressure gun.  Something that could be remote mounted and plumbed with a high pressure (nitrogen?) air supply that could also be remote aimed/guided.  Mount a couple of these in the flower planters on either side of the retreat and "Welcome" the bad guys with some 2000fps marbles.  Next stop... the compost pile!

Tim.

[rickpeterson]

Hi Tim,
I've always preferred the laser-triggered crossbow for vacation home security, but you may be onto something.
I have a large book on air machine guns around here someplace, but off the top of my head, you might want to
take a look at the Lark International M19-A. It used a "vacuum" feed system like a carburetor
to suck BB's into a tube and up to the barrel. It used freon cans for power.
It's out of production (along with 50 trillion freon cans) but the concept should work with compressed air.
If you're really iterested I'll have Kim re-sort the bookshelf and get you the titla of the air machinegun book.

[Sister Wolf]

1.  Challenge - Same reason I bow hunt

What makes hunting with an air gun more challenging than hunting with a real gun?

3.  Some people love airguns and want the best available.  Many would say spening that 2K on a Kimber is a bad idea to, why not buy a 75 Dollar Mosin, it makes game just as dead?

I'm among those people.  If the reason is simply that people want to spend $2000 on an air gun, then fine.  But when you could spend $75 on a Mosin, and spend the rest of that money on food, gardening equipment, solar panels, wind turbines, generators, etc - I don't see the practicality of it.

4.  Not likely to be ceased in a gun ban/grab

I don't understand what that means.  It's not likely to be stopped?  Why not?

5.  Requires no gun powder, as long as you have a mold and any source of meltable metal you have ammo

That's pretty cool.

----------------------

Lol, Why? Have you seen what people spend their money on these days.

That was my point, Tycoon.  I thought that a good majority of the people here were not the type to blow 2 grand on an AIR gun.  Which is why I assumed that I must have been missing something.  It seems I'm not missing something.  People really do just want to spend several thousand dollars on a pellet gun.

As far as gun ownership in CA, you can still own a real gun in California.  I live here, and I own several. 

[Tycoon]

1.  Challenge - Same reason I bow hunt

What makes hunting with an air gun more challenging than hunting with a real gun?

3.  Some people love airguns and want the best available.  Many would say spening that 2K on a Kimber is a bad idea to, why not buy a 75 Dollar Mosin, it makes game just as dead?

I'm among those people.  If the reason is simply that people want to spend $2000 on an air gun, then fine.  But when you could spend $75 on a Mosin, and spend the rest of that money on food, gardening equipment, solar panels, wind turbines, generators, etc - I don't see the practicality of it.

4.  Not likely to be ceased in a gun ban/grab

I don't understand what that means.  It's not likely to be stopped?  Why not?

5.  Requires no gun powder, as long as you have a mold and any source of meltable metal you have ammo

That's pretty cool.

----------------------

Lol, Why? Have you seen what people spend their money on these days.

That was my point, Tycoon.  I thought that a good majority of the people here were not the type to blow 2 grand on an AIR gun.  Which is why I assumed that I must have been missing something.  It seems I'm not missing something.  People really do just want to spend several thousand dollars on a pellet gun.

As far as gun ownership in CA, you can still own a real gun in California.  I live here, and I own several. 

  Your still trying to justify something that doesn't feel practical to you. Stop!!! You can't always justify the practicality of something or somebody just because it doesn't make sense to you. Not everything written on this forum is about the most practical way to live your life. As far as you living in CA and having lots of guns, great!....I live here too and have a gun. My point was living in CA you see that on a daily basis we struggle to retain the guns/gun rights we have and how the laws and regs are changing by the day, even as we speak with the new administration. Someday that day might come where you don't have those guns anymore but you still have that trusty air rifle.

[ModernSurvival]

Sisterwolf while Tycoon has a valid point I will answer your questions.

1.  Airguns are more challenging because the rate of fire is slower, the range is not as great, the round must be placed with greater precision, less ability to break bone, etc.  Same reason a muzzle loader is more challenging to hunt with then modern firearms.

2.  I don't understand what you don't get about not being ceased in a gun ban/grab.  To be more clear though if we have a major firearms ban, airguns won't likely be included.  If we end up in an area of "martial law" like New Orleans during Katrina for instance they are not likely to be ceased.  Better to have a high end air gun, then no gun.

[rickpeterson]

I sold this 20 year old spring-gun for $3,800 this weekend. It cost $2,200 new back then.
I think I stated early on that these may not be the perfect gun for the survivalist in a full-on doomsday scenario,
but the ones I deal in have been increasing in value and I know more than one collector that is banking on selling his
collection over time to fund his retirement.


I'm not one to buy depreciating assets, and must confess these TOYS bring me more joy than a bag of junk-silver.
Do I consider the art of building them to be a valuable barter trade in a post-powder-plantation USA? You bet. would I go up against a charging Grizzley with one?
Not unless the only non-confiscated alternative was a Bowie Knife.

So who buys these things? Guys that have a safe full of high-end firearms and want something fun and collectable to play with.

This post is from a recent convert that saw the light and gave up his Jaguar for a couch-full of Whiscombes.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1233272935/I%27ve+taken+Airgun+addiction+to+a+whole+new+level+----+PICS+%21

funny thing is that at $1,999.99 I'm just hoping to cover my cost and get my name out there so that one day i can run with the big dogs.
Lock up your credit card and take a look at this sight:
http://glbarnes.com/

[Sister Wolf]

2.  I don't understand what you don't get about not being ceased in a gun ban/grab.  To be more clear though if we have a major firearms ban, airguns won't likely be included.  If we end up in an area of "martial law" like New Orleans during Katrina for instance they are not likely to be ceased.  Better to have a high end air gun, then no gun.

Do you mean seized?

[ModernSurvival]

Yep I always do that, dang it!

[Tycoon]

2.  I don't understand what you don't get about not being ceased in a gun ban/grab.  To be more clear though if we have a major firearms ban, airguns won't likely be included.  If we end up in an area of "martial law" like New Orleans during Katrina for instance they are not likely to be ceased.  Better to have a high end air gun, then no gun.

Do you mean seized?

lol, we're not in English class here, we all knew what he meant. Why don't we get back on track with the "Airguns".

[Sister Wolf]

I do it all the time too, with dye/die and other stupid look-alike words.

And now I completely understand your post.

[Sister Wolf]

2.  I don't understand what you don't get about not being ceased in a gun ban/grab.  To be more clear though if we have a major firearms ban, airguns won't likely be included.  If we end up in an area of "martial law" like New Orleans during Katrina for instance they are not likely to be ceased.  Better to have a high end air gun, then no gun.

Do you mean seized?

lol, we're not in English class here, we all knew what he meant. Why don't we get back on track with the "Airguns".

No, actually, we didn't know what he meant.  Which is why we asked.

[ModernSurvival]

Now now kids, play nice, 

[Tycoon]

Hey Rick,
Do you have any of these high power air guns for sale currently, other than the one your working on obviously.