Author Topic: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy  (Read 8888 times)

KyFarmer

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Alright fellas - I was gonna email this to Jack, but I thought I would throw it out there for some group think.

My wife and I have been heading in the "survival" direction for a while without much clue of where we were going or what we were doing.  I honestly, and neither does my wife, don't like most people very much.  Most people I meet are either fat, lazy, tax gobbling, un-motivated, pain's in the asses or they are image obsessed, self absorbed dicks.  I'd just as soon everyone, with a few exceptions of close friends and family, just leave me the hell alone.  I don't care what the hell you do - just don't ask me to help you pay for it.  Your problem are your problems, and if I want to help you I will - but don't try to force me to help you - you're failure to make smart decisions is a you problem, not a me problem.  I've been slowly becoming "that guy" for some time, and just didn't know exactly what and why I was feeling what I was feeling.  Then I have a friend who tells me about the wingnut who records a podcast while driving his car into work everyday and - WOW.  Someone who sums up my thinking and concerns quite well.  I'm not so much worried about a nuclear war and I am about just general civil unrest and natural disasters.

This is gonna be kind of long - so bear with me.

Marital Status and such:
Married (to a natural saver and hoarder), she's totally on board with this.  Even to the home defense/weapons standpoint.  She's tough as nails, great physical condition, a farm girl from birth, and can do all manner of construction (not kidding - and no she doesn't have a twin sister)
Two kids - 8 and 9, both boys.
We just moved back here from 15 years off the farm and out of the "country"

Financial:
Substantial income, but single income
Very low debt load, and we could pay the debt off tomorrow (we'll three days actually for funds to settle) in an absolute worst case personal emergency.
Significant - but not to the point we could live off of it - investments
Strong cash position on hand (wife's not comfortable unless she was about 3-5K in hand at any one time)

Living Situation:
The good:
250 acres of paid for land (which we live on).  Rolling fields with about 100 acres of woods.  4 good ponds, one of which we're going to expand this year.  A little running water, but it's sporadic and dries up pretty quick in the summer with no rain.  No current well - but there was one here when I was a kid - it was productive, but kind of sulfery.  No neighbors for about 2 miles that aren't direct family.  Good wild game population, deer, turkey, quail, dove when the corn's up, squirrels, rabbits a plenty.
The bad:
The house sits right on a paved road.  It's not a main highway, we're about 4 miles from anything qualifies an a main road.  No real through traffic - you don't come here unless you got a reason.

Building and Equipment
Home has a wood burning stove and water is served by a reservoir (contained in the house itself) with electric pump (8,000 gallon).  No county/city water and probably won't ever be any.
Heated and Cooled outbuilding (30x50) with reservoir (3,000 gallon).  This will probably serve as food storage facility and re-work for a green house.
Two large tractors, one with front loader
Two smaller tractors
2 large 4WD four wheelers
1 4WD pickup - 3/4 ton, "runs great-looks like hell" farm truck
1 4WD suburban, great shape
1 trailer mounted whole-house generator (doesn't run at the moment, it's off getting fixed)
400 gallon diesel tank on site
350 gallon gas tank on site (but sits right by paved road as stated above)
Every tool known to man - two welders, cutting torches, lifts, etc, etc. I can build about anything, and can fix about anything (learning engines, but getting better)
Couple of other barns of no real consequence

Arms and Protection
Physically - excellent condition. Both my wife and I.  She's tough as nails and strong as hell, but she's very small.  I did an IronMan last year and have very good strength and endurance.  Physically we're fine.  Good health, no real concerns.
Physical combat - unless I can up against someone with serious military or police training, I don't worry to much about it.
From a gun standpoint (thanks to my Dad)
1 - SKS
2 - Remington 243's with scopes
1 - 22 long rifle
1 - 357 long barrel
1 - 38 special
1 - 12 gauge break
1 - 20 gauge bolt
Problem with the guns is simple - I got guns, but like a huge idiot - I have basically no ammo.

Food Situation/Livestock
We don't have any food stored (as embarrassing as that is).  We're basically weekly shoppers.
Obviously I can grow substantial amounts of food stuffs. We garden, and we're expanding this year,
No green house (that's next spring/summer project)
We don't can anything - but wife has pledged to learn/begin next year.
Fruit trees are planted
Berry's are planted
Grapes are planted
Cattle - don't have any currently (the herd looked like hell when we moved back, so we sold them all.)  We're getting a few bred heifers in the spring to keep the pastures eaten down and to sell/process the calves for personal use.
No chickens yet - but they're coming soon!
We don't have - but do have the room - to run basically any kind of animals.  Goats, sheep, etc.
No large scale freezer capacity



So...I think that's everything.

What I'm asking for help on from the group is this - I've got bits and pieces of a plan, and I've sporadically assembled them without any real direction.  I realize I've been very blessed with what God and my family have given me and allowed me to be in this situation.  My concern is that I've come to this a little late.  I've a head start from a "stuff" standpoint, but everything within me is telling me to hurry the hell up because trouble's coming.

Here's what I'm after.

I've got all the "stuff" I could possibly ask for to pull this off.  The problem is - I've got a bit of analysis paralysis.  I don't know a proper order of attack.  I need a "debt snow ball" for survivalists!

My wife and I are building a plan, but I need some outside eyes and brain cells to look objectively at what we have and where we are - and tell me what would you do if you woke up tomorrow in our situation?

On another note - I'm glad I found this site!  Sorry to dump a deep, thought requiring post on you so early in my career!  I will (not I hope, or I plan to) - but will become a participating member of this community!

Thanks for the help guys

God Bless




Storm

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2008, 09:19:35 AM »
Welcome KyFarmer!

Man, are you in a better position than many! You are indeed blessed. While there's no real way for me to get anywhere than where I am right now, I plan on doing what I can.

Initially you seem to be sitting pretty with most things. Starting a greenhouse seems like an excellent idea, along with foodstuffs on your land. As long as you can handle the work, growing your own food and raising your own meat sounds like an excellent idea.

I'll tell you my thoughts, as they're the same model I'm going to be following to an extent.

If you have skills, use them.

If there's something you can't do, learn how. Canning is a great skill to learn, especially if you have the ability to grow so much food. I'd wanted a large plot also. If you can grow enough to feed your family, all is well. Ideally grow enough to feed yourselves and store, where, thanks to your wife, canning will come in handy. Pay attention to deals and you can get mason jars and the equipment needed at a good price. Then, can, can and can. I might be stressing this too much, but I personally find it a cool thing to do, family-wise, and a generally good idea. Canned food can supplement your available food supply and you can even help out extended family if needed. One other thought I've had was that being able to can may come in handy later. That is, if needed you could use your canned food stores to barter with, or put your skills to good use. For example, if someone does not have the equipment or knowledge, you can can their food for them, provided they have the jars or you have a large surplus, in exchange for some of their crop or some other needed items. Then, once that food gets used, the cycle repeats.

Build your pantry. Don't go nuts and try to do it all at once. Focus on what you use most and go from there.

You have a nice collection of firearms, but no ammo. That sucks, but is easily fixed. 7.62x39 has gone up about $50 per 1000-1200 rounds lately, but at something like $250 it's still a good deal. Corrosive or non-corrosive, your choice. .22LR bricks are inexpensive and the .22 is a very flexible firearm able to take small and medium-size game fine. If you want to stock up on something, .22 is what I would suggest. Hell, if you're a good enough shot, you can take deer with .22LR, I've done it! Just set aside some 'preps' money and use it to buy what you need, equipment, essentials, and ammo. If you can, buy a box a week. If it's .22LR it should be no problem.

Don't overindulge in livestock. Choose what will best supplement your food stores and income. If you want a little of everything, that's ok, but don't burden yourself with the work. Goats are a fantastic animal and can easily be harvested for meat and milk/cheese.

I have a fairly large freezer in my garage, but I do not and don't suggest relying on those. However, if you have the ability to run one with your gennie and the fuel on hand, that may be ok. But I wouldn't suggest relying on freezing much. Instead, you could take one of your barns and build a large root cellar into it, makes a great place to store all your canned foodstuffs. If you really want meat on hand, learn to salt it, etc. This is a much better plan, just in case something were to happen. I don't know how long your gennie could run a large freezer, especially if fuel become an issue. None of my idea for preps rely on a cyclic fuel source, just enough to get somewhere and a little extra.

If you don't want to do it in a barn, pick some random place throughout your property and build smaller-medium sized root cellars and divvy up your food, just in case something happens to the main storage area.

Just take it easy. No need to flip out. Relax and once you start it should all come fairly easily. Gosh, this coming from someone who hasn't even started his prepping. I hope within the year I'm farther along than I am now. Unfortunately, my fiancee, family and friends think I'm nuts.

Go slow, make your plan.

Draw up a list of what you need for certain projects like a root cellar, greenhouse, etc. Make another list of things you need like canning supplies, mason jars, lids, etc. If you're in the position to, buy extra supplies, and store them in a barn, you never know what you might need. I'm a pack rat and it's a skill that has saved my butt numerous times.

You're in a great position, much better than most and I'm sure I'm not the only jealous person here. You did the right thing, if you don't know something: ask.

Sorry if this was too convoluted and not organized, it's been a long day. 50+ hours awake with 60+ pages of stuff due in 24 hours.

KyFarmer

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2008, 09:34:26 AM »
Awesome man!  I appreciate the input!  I'm a planner by nature, and I don't do anything slowly - so figuring this one out has been daunting!

Offline BerserkerPrime

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2008, 09:41:11 AM »
WOW.  WOW.   I'm very happy for your situation!  Putting myself in that situation, I think that I'd let my fantasy play out by building a straw bail house much farther on to the property and shoot for complete off the grid self sufficiency!  Not sure if you've researched straw bail construction, (very common in SW), but it offers a hell of a lot, by keeping temps very stable.  It's a shame to have all that property, then to have the house on the road for god and country to see.  

I'd then tackle the water, solar, wind piece of it.  If your not paying utility bills, your saving your money for more important things.  

Good Luck and God Bless

Berserker Prime

KyFarmer

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2008, 09:47:57 AM »
Thanks Berserker (love the handle by the way!)

We'd thought about, and probably will down the road, build a cabin "back in the woods" so to speak to hunt from and head to if we must.  I just hate to spread preparations over two locations.  BUT - the roadside location concerns me greatly if the absolute worst case situations breaks out.

Offline Dirt Rider 3006

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2008, 09:51:33 AM »
I don't have the time for a long post right now (I'm at work..shhhhh), but I just like to say, I'll tade places with you in a heart beat.....

More later...

KyFarmer

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2008, 02:25:28 PM »
I appreciate the offer to trade - but I think my ancestors would come back to haunt me if I ever let that happen!  ;)

Look forward to your input brother!

KyFarmer

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2008, 07:51:51 PM »
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Offline DIM TIM

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2008, 10:21:04 AM »
WOW !!!   Well, for what it is worth I agree with STORM. Learn the skills that are needed for a self- sufficent life  as you go. Don't try to do it all at once.
Add to your food stores steady, and just extra of what you use now. There is no sense in going out and buying a years supply of freeze dried food for every member of the family, only to find out that one of them does not like something on the list, and will probably not eat it. Stick to what you like, and buy in bulk when possible.

Extra ammo is a given thing when you own firearms. Lots of debate over how many rounds that you should have for each gun. I can not tell someone that they should have X number of rounds of ammo for this gun or that gun, but I do have a few thoughts that I will share with you.
The .22 cal. is a round that can't be reloaded. They are cheap. So as a tactical thought, buy as many of these as you can get. If you end up with 50,000 rounds, and you might end up only using half of that in your lifetime, think of the other half as trade and barter goods to be used for something that you may find later that someone has, that they might trade for say maybe a  brick of .22's .  ;)

The 7.62 x 39 is a good one. Like the .22, stock up as you can afford it. It can be reloaded, but because it is a rifle, there a few things that go along with the reloading of it as opposed to a hand gun, that need to be addressed. Learning to reload you own ammo is a good skill to learn as well.
The chance of you getting into a firefight with hostile forces is small, but if it were to happen, the amount of ammo that you might use would be a shock for sure, and unless you are able to resupply like the military, get a lot, and get some more. If you never need it for a fight, you still have a good supply of barter goods / box . And if the current presidential administration holds true to form, they will be quite literally, worth their weight in gold. 5- 10,000 rounds has been suggested for all rifles. Some people think that this is a bit much. Maybe.....maybe not. You are the one who will have to decide this debate.

Pistol rounds are close quarter rounds. You may not need as many as a rifle, bu these need to be stockpiled as well.  Shot shells are the same.These can be used as food gathering rounds as well as defense rounds. Get what you might need, and get some more of both. and when you have them, get some more.  ;D

As building projects go, do what you can, as you can do it. If you are going to can foods that you grow and produce, build a good root cellar. Raise chickens ? Build a good chicken coop, as well as an enclosed run to protect them from predators. Need more storage ? Build another utility barn. Need an extra home on the old family homestead ? A good log home with a wood stove, and a good well or cistern for water storage is a good thing. Also, on the subject of off -grid power, the government will be giving tax breaks on new instalations in 2009. Worth checking out if you want to decrease your electric energy dependence.  :o ;D

I have given my two cents worth, and you can take this all for what it is worth. Before I go, a few last thoughts are in order. If nobody in your home is a doctor or nurse, get some basic, as well as some advanced first responder training in first aid. Accidents happen, and it may take the emergency services people quite some time to get to you in an emergency. Seconds count, so be ready to render first aid until they get there.
Since you have firearms, a good training course would be a good thing to go to. Since you have an SKS, a good thing for you there might be to go to the Suarez International site and get his training video on the KALASKNIKOV family of rifles. http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/

You have a leg up on where most other folks that post and read on these boards would like to be. Keep reading the posts, and don't be afraid to ask questions. I was told this little bit of truth by someone years ago, and it still holds true now.......the only dumb question is the one that you don't ask , because you don't want to look dumb.  ;D


Offline TimSuggs

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2008, 12:18:41 PM »
Hi KyFarmer, and WELCOME to the group.  You're not alone in your intolerance for idiots, mine came on at about age 40 and gets worse every year, embrace it and use it as a motivational tool for you.  Luckily for me, I live in Alabama and "Some people just need shootin'" is still a legally acceptable defense here. <grin>

But on to your questions...

You are INDEED, much better situated/equipped/positioned than most, and I think I could say better than most "here".  So you are ahead of the game in that respect.  Now as far as "The Survivalist Instruction Book", yeah, they're ain't one, and for a good reason, we're all different, and in different situations/locations/abilities, so what the logical procession of steps of preparation for me might not be where you need to focus your energies.  I spend more time on this forum READING than I ever do writing, and it is a fabulous resource and insight into how other are prepping, their solutions and ideas about many of the same issues that we all have to face, so READ ON, it'll get a little more clear as you go along.  BUT, we ALL share the same needs as humans, so let's break that down into a workable list of priorities for you.  I think it would go something like this...

WATER:  Gotta have food too, but most people overlook the importance of water over food.  It takes a long time to starve to death, but dehydration will kill you in about 3 days.  Look at your own water situation, you got a pond, so possible treatment and filtration needs exist to make what you got usable.

SHELTER:  I say use what ya got, for now, and put your time and money into other preps.  But for long term, I'd be building another spot back in the woods out of sight and sound.  I live on a double Clyde's and have made "arrangements" with the neighbors to create a manned "bottleneck" that would eliminate anyone from coming on our street without the need to do so.  We can turn around anybody that doesn't have a legit reason for coming onto our street and/or defend access to our properties if it comes to that.  Is that an option for you?  If not, I'd be scouting a new homesite elsewhere on the property.

FOOD:  Food is slow when it's a DIY effort, so a survival pantry is a priority.  It'll keep you going both nutritionally and mentally knowing you got 3/6/9/12 months worth of foodstuffs stored on-site.  I think you got the long term food issues figured out already.

DEFENSE:  You gotta keep what ya got!  But defense means a lot of different things to different people.  Some see Claymore mines scattered around their property, some see dug-in shooting positions, ranging sticks scattered around the property.  Me?  I see having the least noticeable visual/audible/smellable footprint as the best defense.  If no one thinks there's any reason to come onto my property, then I don't have to expend energy/bullets/lives in defense of same.  So "stealth" is a major component of my defense plan.  And with 250 acres, you should be able to disappear relatively easy.  If the SHTF, I would burn the roadside house and make it look as unusable as possible so that anyone passing by would take one look and KNOW there was nothing usable to them there and no reason to stop and poke around.  Other defenses:  You got plenty of weaponry, just start adding the ammo.  Break it down into doable size actions.  Once a /week/month/quarter buy XXX number of rounds for each weapon and start an ammo pantry, easy to see what you got AND what you need to get.  If you don't like your hardware, then do the same thing, buy one gun a month of whatever it is you think you need.  In my scenario, I have a family group of 10-20 living in a group setting and have a .22 riffle for each as "always carry" weapons.  And if we had to defend ourselves, I think if we brought 20 .22 rifles to bear on a single target with 18rds capacity each, well, there wouldn't be much left unless it was hardened.  But you have to choose what you think works best for you and your situation.

There you have it.  What I consider to be the basic necessities for a viable survival retreat/homestead plan.  Now there's a lot of things not on the list that I assume are already covered in some form or another, such as cooking/hygiene/communication-information and the likes.  But as far as basic "gotta have it or we die" needs, I think Water, Shelter, Food and Defense pretty well sums it up, in that order.

This forum, is a godsend of tried and trued information and techniques, ideas, links, thought "generators" and support.  But the people here that unselfishly give their information, thoughts, suggestions and support are the real jewels here.  THANKS to all of the members here that contribute their time efforts and support.  If I could +1 all of you I would!

Tim.


KyFarmer

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2008, 02:44:41 PM »
Tim - I'm 37 and my intolerance has gotten exponentially worse in the last 2 years.  Moving out of the city helped, but I think all it did was reset the curve.

Anyways - awesome guys - I appreciate the input.

As I said, I'm a planner by nature - so you guys have helped me a ton to begin to narrow my focus to do it now items, do in 90 days items, do in 180 day items, etc, etc.  I may post the rough plan to get input.

I'm doing some fence repair over the coming few days which will take me into some areas of the farm in detail that I've not been in except to hunt.  Funny how you begin to see your topography diffirently when you start looking at sight and defense lines!

I think I have already reached the conclusion that nothing of serious long-term consequence is going to be stored in the area of the main house and barns.  Not sure where I'm going to put it yet, or in what - but it's gonna be in a hole/cellar somewhere else on the property.  Barns and housing is entirely too close to the road.

Offline swanson

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2008, 02:53:17 PM »
timsuggs,

+1,

Great observations and advice.

swanson

Offline TimSuggs

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2008, 03:18:46 PM »
timsuggs,
+1,
Great observations and advice.

swanson

Thanks Swanson, coming from you that just made my day!

Tim.


Offline Stein

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2008, 03:25:57 PM »
Man, you're killing it.  Nice job getting to where you are now.  My suggestions are all 100,000 foot type - forrest from the trees.

First, I would be debt free.  It sounds like you may be a DR follower.  If I had 6-12 months cash in an emergency fund I would use the rest to pay off debt.  With your income, you will do wonders without that last, final payment.

Next, don't forget long-term thinking.  Sure preps are great and necessary, but how about those two kids?  Think about their college fund (or house down payment if they don't go), life insurance to protect your family and that type of stuff.  Assume you disappear tomorrow and plan out how you can ensure your family at least doesn't have to worry about money.

When we cleared all of our debt except our house, we took the debt snowball and transformed it into an equity snowball.  We made a list of all the financial goals for the year and put them in terms of annual amounts: retirement, car replacement fund, college funds, annual insurance premiums, vacation fund, etc.  Then, we listed them in order of importance: retirement comes before vacation.  Then, we hit them just like a debt snowball, only the money doesn't go to the bank.  It has the same intensity benefit of a debt snowball and much more.

Writing a big check for your kid's future is fun.

Keep up with the preps stuff, but also keep an eye on the long-term picture.

KyFarmer

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2008, 03:29:55 PM »
timsuggs,

+1,

Great observations and advice.

swanson
I +1'd you both!

Swanson - based on some of the outstanding stuff I've read from you already - I'd love to have your thoughts.

KyFarmer

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2008, 03:38:31 PM »
Man, you're killing it.  Nice job getting to where you are now.  My suggestions are all 100,000 foot type - forrest from the trees.

First, I would be debt free.  It sounds like you may be a DR follower.  If I had 6-12 months cash in an emergency fund I would use the rest to pay off debt.  With your income, you will do wonders without that last, final payment.

Next, don't forget long-term thinking.  Sure preps are great and necessary, but how about those two kids?  Think about their college fund (or house down payment if they don't go), life insurance to protect your family and that type of stuff.  Assume you disappear tomorrow and plan out how you can ensure your family at least doesn't have to worry about money.

When we cleared all of our debt except our house, we took the debt snowball and transformed it into an equity snowball.  We made a list of all the financial goals for the year and put them in terms of annual amounts: retirement, car replacement fund, college funds, annual insurance premiums, vacation fund, etc.  Then, we listed them in order of importance: retirement comes before vacation.  Then, we hit them just like a debt snowball, only the money doesn't go to the bank.  It has the same intensity benefit of a debt snowball and much more.

Writing a big check for your kid's future is fun.

Keep up with the preps stuff, but also keep an eye on the long-term picture.
Stein,

Yeah - we're big Ramsey people.  Wife and I have actually taught the course more than a few times.

To your points:
We WERE (and I stress WERE) totally debt free until we moved back to the "homeplace".  It had been a few years since my Dad had passed, and the farm and house were a little run down.  We built my Mom a new place, and re-did the farm house.  Total debt load - we're WAY under 100k. 

Kids college funds are funded every year.  At this point, if we stopped contributing they could go to a state school without too much trouble as long as they held a job (which they will have to as a condition of me releasing the college funds!).  Life insurance is covered - perhaps too well.  I'm worth substantially more to my wife dead that alive (which causes me to sleep with one eye open.)

The prep stuff is really a security blanket for me.  I don't really fear the "end of the world" stuff - at least not yet, leave me around here for a while and that may change.  What worries me is everyday stuff, and the possible regional disaster - we sit on a major fault line  here.  My industry is highly compensated but is cutting like crazy.  I survive the next 12-18 months, and I should be good for a while - but I wouldn't choose to get back into this industry if I was forced out.  That's a MAJOR reason for me to want to store goods - is to give me a 6-12 month cushion to find another field and get my income up.

I appreciate the advice man!

Offline DIM TIM

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2008, 12:21:45 AM »
KYFARMER You got me to thinking of an idea I had at one time for a survival cache, if I ever was able to have a good size piece of land for a homestead. Thought I would pass it along to you since you have 250 acres to work with.

I see them from time to time, and the one my parents had in the garage when I was a kid, was huge.  A DISCARDED CHEST FREEZER of sufficent size would hold a lot of stored goods.
A spot is selected for the cache. The top layer of soil, leaves, debris, etc; is removed a bit at a time, and placed on a tarp to the side.
  A hole is dug to allow the freezer to be placed into the hole, with around a foot of soil to be backfilled on top. All the backfill should be placed on another tarp, to keep the disturbance of the surrounding ground to a minimum.
A rubber pond liner for decorative goldfish ponds is bought to drape over the top and to fan out about a foot and a half all the way around and at a downward slope away from the center for drainage or groundwater from the rains and snow if you live far enough North.
Get a few cans of Rustolium spray paint, and give the entire cabinet a good coat or two of paint to make the cache last longer.
   Place the freezer in the hole ready to be covered. Add a few LARGE dessicant packs that can be purchased from companies like ULINE http://www.uline.com/Grp_21/Desiccants?searchedkeywords=desiccants
Add the items to be stored. Add a few more dessicants on top, and you are ready to seal it up.
So... now you close the top of the freezer, covering it with the pond liner, and letting the edges hang over the top and down the sides, making sure that the excess covers quite a bit below where the lid and the body meet so that no water can seep in between the gasket seal and the chest.
   Now you carefuly backfill around the sides and top, and tamp the soil carefuly as you go so as not to poke a hole in the liner with a rock or errant stick. After the soil has been brought back to grade level, add about another inch to allow for any minor setteling that might occur. The remainder of the excavated soil can be spread around the fields to dispose of it without any real notice. Now, all the top layer of dirt, leaves, and debris, is spread back over the top, to bring the rest of the ground cover to a match with the cover for the hole.
If this is done before a couple of days of expected rain, the whole area should reach equilibrium by the time the rain has stopped.

Now you have a hidden cache of supplies, and all you have to do is repeat the process one year from the time you bury it, to check on the seal, and the contents for any spoilage that may have occured. If the contents are intact, and show no signs of any degredation, then re- activate the dessicant packs by heating them on a low heat setting in the oven ( 250 degrees ) for about an half an hour or an hour. Replace the packs and the cache contents, and repeat the burial process as before.
Now if the contents survived, wait another year before doing it again.

I know that this is a lot of work for a cache, but you are betting your survival in very bad times on this, so I think that it is worth the effort. Especially since you have the place to do it without too many prying eyes.
No chest freezer to use ?  How about a refrigerator ?  Lots of these get sent to the curb for a spring, or special trash pick-up.
Some major appliance dealers have a free pick-up for folks that buy a new one. Ask around and you may get a lead on one that just needs to be picked up and hauled away.

KyFarmer

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2008, 08:09:24 AM »
That is one HELL of an idea.  I've got two fridges sitting in one of my shops right now.

Major +1.

Appreciate it.

Offline DIM TIM

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2008, 09:56:20 PM »
Hey there KYFARMER, one other thing I forgot to mention that is very important from a security standpoint, is that many folks are concerned about the point about burial caches having a high metal content, and being found by the bad guys with metal detectors. :'(

I have thought about this one for some time now, and I have what I think is the best way to keep that from happening. Most farms that I have been to, have all sorts of things ( junk ) that should be thrown out with the garbage. But for some reason, they end up being thrown into a pile in an out of the way, out of sight place, which sort of becomes the homestead junk pile. Everything from old shoes, small appliences, and bits of wood, to OLD TIN CANS, AND NAILS..... ;D

The metal cans if flat,or partialy crushed, as well as a liberal sprinkeling of old nails and screws, along with any sheet tin roofing bits, metal appliance panels, etc: can be spread across the top of the ground, as well as in the cover layer over top the cache, to give a false reading to the metal detector, which will be looking for ferrous metal targets ( steel gun barrels ) amd non-ferrous brass, aluminum, and copper ( ammo ) targets as well.

So a bit of tin cans, an old cover or two off an old junk microwave oven (squashed flat) some brass and steel screws, nails, old copper wires. tennis shoes with metal eyelets, aluminum soft drink cans, and even a bit of old broken glass thrown in to give the impression of a homestead trash heap, and 'VIOLA'
you have enough metal on top of the ground as well as seeded in the ground over top as well as around the cache to throw the metal detectors off the hunt. Have a couple of piles in a couple different spots, and  throw some assorted OTHER junk as well to make it look less of a scrap yard, and more of a trash heap ( Plastic bottles, cardboard scraps, crates, ...................you get the idea.  ;)

Remember in my post about making the cache where I mentioned about removal of the top layer of debris (soil , leaves, sticks, etc; ) ?  Well, this type of debris is good for a wooded setting, but the trash will lend itself well to this as well as one where you just mound up a lot of soil around the cache, and add a bunch of junk as you do with a lot of loose stuff on top to allow access without too much work to get at the lid. Either way will work, but the mounded type of cover will take a bit more dressing to look like a pile of junk, and not a pile of dirt with stuff thrown on the top as an afterthought.  ;D

Just thought that I better throw this all in there to help keep your cache more secure than one of the ones made of large diameter PVC pipe. While these make good burial caches, they are limited to the size materials that you can put in them by the size of the opening. The freezer or refrigerator cache can be used for larger items easily. and more of what you may have of small things ( boxes and cases of ammo, canned goods, etc; ) !!!  8)

The PVC type of cache should be used as well for extra arms and ammo, extra food and water purifiers, first aid kits, etc; and three or four of these should be made, and placed in other locations around the farm for back-ups to a BOB for a hasty retreat, and when things cool down, come back and gather the rest. You may want to think of maybe doing one off farm at another secure site as well, just to hedge your bet a little bit. REMEMBER THE OLD SAYING ABOUT GATHERING ALL YOUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET.  ;)

Offline Dan

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2008, 12:44:27 PM »
I guess I will start by chiming in on some of the things that haven't been brought up yet.

One of the things I would do in your position would be to move the fuel tanks to a location not visible from the road. Keep them away from structures but locate them so that the house or a barn is between them and the road. Back when fuel prices were up I heard of a few folks with storage tanks finding there neighbors kid or someone that happend to notice the tanks had been helping themselves to it.  >:(

Next would be to learn as much of your land as possible. Mending your fences is a good start but get to know the interior as well. The hiking will help you keep in shape, you can get a better idea where you could locate that cabin or house should you decide to relocate farther from the road, which I highly recommend, and should the zombie hoards find there way to your doorstep you will have a better understanding of your environment giving you a great advantage.

Now for another take on something that has already been covered. You have a decent selection of firearms and several people have recommended buying ammo and I agree this is a requirement I would also recommend learning to reload and acquiring the necessary equipment and supplies to accomplish this. You can use an expensive progressive reloading press or go as cheep as the "Lee Classic Loader" which sells for less than $20 but is cartridge specific. Something else I would recommend is have more than one firearm in a few key calibers. You already have a pair of 243's and that's good but I would suggest getting the following. Another .22 preferably a rifle as a backup for the one you already have. Another 12ga, I would recommend a pump for volume of fire and another semiauto rifle (AK, SKS, Saiga) in 7.62x39 as a backup for your current SKS. To some this may seem a bit excessive but consider this, what if you spend a few hundred or several thousand dollars on ammo and reloading supplies only to have something like a firing pin break on you. Yes with some skill, simple tools and enough time you could make another firing pin but what if is more serious than that? There was a post the otherday where somebody mentioned having a bolt (not the threaded kind) break on them. How would you deal with that without the ability to order a new one? What if you needed that rifle in the meantime? I look at it like cheep insurance you buy it one time and if you take care of it its good for life probably two or three lifetimes. Buy smart and take care of them and they can even appreciate. I personally have multiples of each firearm I consider to be usefull in a SHTF scenario. A couple of them are even the same model where parts could be interchanged if necessary.

That's my two cents anyway.

KyFarmer

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2008, 01:06:25 PM »
Dan - appreciate the input.  We've already taken steps to move the tanks - but that's a difficult thing to do.  Have to get them drained through use and get them moved and refilled fast enough to not disrupt farming operations.  It'll happen, but it just takes some timing.  We're looking at where to relocate them to give them the most security.

As for knowing the land, I've been looking at it with new eyes lately.  I grew up here - so I know every inch of the place, but looking at it from a strategic standpoint has caused me to reevaluate where I was going to put hunting cabins, etc.

Good thought on doubling up on the weapons in the same caliber.  I've got a police issued 870 on the way (which will be NICE)!

Offline Dan

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2008, 01:22:34 PM »
I figured the fuel tank issue was kind of obvious but I have had something obvious staring me right in the face and not realized it on more than one occasion so I figured it wouldn't hurt to mention it.

Glad to hear about the 870 that's a good one. Police issue should hold what 7 or 8 rounds?

KyFarmer

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2008, 01:35:05 PM »
Re: the tanks....NO PROBLEM.  It actually hadn't occurred to me until I caught a kids trying to borrow some gas (as you said).  He didn't get too far and probably didn't like the welcoming committee any!

On the 870 - Not sure on the load capacity.  Friend is bringing it next week.  I've actually never seen a true police issue.  If it's the side load stock, I think it's 8
« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 01:36:39 PM by KyFarmer »

Storm

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2008, 01:36:33 AM »
Should be anywhere from 6-8. Might not matter though, most people shit their breeches when the hear it get racked.  ;D

Offline BerserkerPrime

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2008, 05:16:17 PM »
Can go as high as 8 with a 9th in the chamber.  I've got an 870 with folding stock and absolutely love it!  Folds up nice on ATV, truck or wife's subaru.  Been using 870's for over 15 years and have never had a problem.

00 Berserker Prime

Offline Ultio1

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2008, 01:40:45 PM »
Sounds like a dream setup!

The first thing I would do is find out about the well. Then maybe a secret cabin in those woods....

Offline TimSuggs

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Re: Alright Boys and Girls - Time for some Group Think for the new guy
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2008, 07:11:27 PM »
I figured the fuel tank issue was kind of obvious but I have had something obvious staring me right in the face and not realized it on more than one occasion so I figured it wouldn't hurt to mention it.

Glad to hear about the 870 that's a good one. Police issue should hold what 7 or 8 rounds?

12ga Pump has got to be the most versatile all around survival/personal defense weapon out there.  Remington 870 (M-870 military version), or the Mossberg 500, either one, great choice!  With slug (and a sabot round is also available), good out to 150 yards depending on your shooting skills and experience.  Aerial flares, rubber buckshot, bean bags, tear gas, door breaching, are just a few of the "specialty" ammo out there in 12ga.

Tim.