Author Topic: Zip ties  (Read 7710 times)

Offline supes

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Zip ties
« on: August 05, 2010, 02:28:43 PM »
Hey guys, just thought I'd check in here for the answer. I remember on a few older TSP podcasts jack mentioning a guy who proves that cops really shouldn't be using zip ties since they are easy to break out of. Does anyone know the guys name or information about him? My brother in law is a cop and had to use ties the other day and when he mentioned that I thought I'd look up more info for him. You know, make sure he doesn't get screwed by something like that. Thanks guys!

Offline baygal

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Re: Zip ties
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2010, 05:17:50 PM »
He might have mentioned ITS Tactical. I think Jack said to do a search on YouTube (I could be wrong) because there are lots of videos out there proving that zip ties don't work as restraints. Type in "zip tie escape" in YouTube and you'll see.

Offline ZenGunFighter

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Re: Zip ties
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2010, 06:16:27 PM »
Escaping from Zip Ties

regular zip ties have weak locks.  the zip ties used for handcuffs are different. Much stronger all around.

I carry a long (30") ziptie in my carry on luggage. If Achmed jumps up and says "Allahu Akbar!" It's going to be sliped over his head, around his neck, and pulled tight.

A fire and forget garrote.

Offline supes

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Re: Zip ties
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2010, 07:15:14 PM »
You tube once again saves the world. Thanks man.

Offline Andy in NH

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Re: Zip ties
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2010, 07:30:14 PM »
Zip ties (AKA "wire ties") are a poor substitute for flex cuffs:



He cuffed himself in a manner advantageous to his technique.  All the conditions had to be just right; lock on the top, free use of arms, hands in front, cuff not laced through his belt.  

It makes good video, but if you get tied up by someone who knows how to do it, escaping is much more difficult than the video portrays.

I'd like to see the gentleman in the video escape flex cuffs with his hands behind his back.

The use of zip ties can be improved by lacing two ties together and placing one wrist in each.

If your BIL uses the correct techniques, his safety will go way up.

Offline supes

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Re: Zip ties
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2010, 11:06:37 AM »
Ah, so it's not as easy as they make it look. Kinda like hand cuffs. In a perfect situation with a paper clip I can get out of them in seconds (like in the movies). However, if it's behind your back it's a lot harder. And if they double lock it, yeah you're not getting out without a key.

Offline AtADeadRun

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Re: Zip ties
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2010, 12:49:01 PM »
Ah, so it's not as easy as they make it look. Kinda like hand cuffs. In a perfect situation with a paper clip I can get out of them in seconds (like in the movies). However, if it's behind your back it's a lot harder. And if they double lock it, yeah you're not getting out without a key.

Not true.  I've opened double-locked cuffs -- not behind my back, but I'm sure I could with a little practice -- with an ordinary tumbler pick (either a spade or a rake, I can't remember which).

Offline JerseyVince

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Re: Zip ties
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2010, 01:26:38 PM »
My father was taught the old school method of handcuffing and he taught me, They academy even had a saying for it. " If the prisoner bitches they're on too tight then they're on right" ;) on standard cuffs the key lock should be up to stop picking with they're hands behind them and even with a key is nearly impossible & harder still if the cuffs are tight "read snug for political correctness" Always double lock. Plenty of crooks today carry consealed cuff keys for just that reason and I'm sure you have all seen the show  COPS on TV where the Officer leaves the cuffs loose on somebody and they slip them in the back seat. There are so many new styles of Cuffs today its hard to keep track, With hinges, new style keys and covers it still doesn't take the place of proper technique and keeping an eye on them

If you want to use Zip-ties use the black outdoor rated ones, the plastic is much stronger and the thicker/longer ones have ratings of 300-400 lbs of force to open. White zip-ties are indoor use only, tie one outside for a cpl weeks in the sun it'll dry out, crack and fall apart. black ones will last years in the sun or under your hood
« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 01:29:37 PM by JerseyVince »

Offline mike77

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Re: Zip ties
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2010, 12:38:49 AM »
I carry a long (30") ziptie in my carry on luggage. If Achmed jumps up and says "Allahu Akbar!" It's going to be sliped over his head, around his neck, and pulled tight.

Has TSA given you any trouble about this? It's a great idea that I might have to throw into my bag next time I fly.

Offline sdcharger

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Re: Zip ties
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2010, 12:39:31 AM »
There is a huge difference between zip ties and flex cuffs.  I have flex cuffed hundreds of people and none of them has ever broken them.

Big ass zip ties would make a decent substitute in a pinch though.

Offline SteveandTracyinKY

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Re: Zip ties
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2010, 06:46:20 AM »
We use flex cuffs in my prison almost every day. We have the "riot" restraints which are similiar to flex cuffs but are just basically overly strong zip ties. HOWEVER, they are only designed to be used when subjects are placed face down on the yard. If they move, well the tower gunner....

They are just for a quick zip in an emergency and are used for their advantages of being able to zip what you need together. You can cuff a small guy, big buy, hands, feet, hobble, four point, whatever level of restraint you need at that time, and you can switch in the middle if need be.

Certified Flex-Cuffs are the only true alternative to steel restraints.

As far as opening handcuffs with a key. We had to do it with a paperclip behind our backs. Sure if you leave someone laying still for an hour and a half its possible, but its not something that happens any time soon. That is why procedure is so important. Transports are the most dangerous time. If you use transport straps and properly check the restraints prior to going in, and getting out of the vehicle it greatly decreases the chances of an escape. Black boxes are our best friends.