For those ladies still of birthin' age...

[Trillias]

what do you think about including a dose of plan B in your BOB? Personally, while I live in a carry state, I don't work in one, and couldn't carry to work even if I did ("secure" building). I'm not assuming that carrying necessarily guarantees me a "get out of rape free card" either...

(totally not intending to start a debate over the morality of the morning after pill)

I figure, in a situation where law and order have broken down, the last thing I am going to want to worry about is an unwanted pregnancy as a result of rape, better to have it and not need it...

[LvsChant]

Hey Trillias,

Welcome to the forum... glad to have you here... stop by the intro thread when you get a chance... great avatar picture!

LvsChant

[Sister Wolf]

I read this when you first posted it, but I wanted to see if anybody responded to it before I had my say.

Since nobody has yet (it is an awfully touchy subject), I'll just go ahead and say what I think. 

If you're absolutely sure that you're the kind of person who is capable of aborting a fetus for any reason whatsoever (rape, etc), then I think your "plan B" (the morning after pill) idea is a good one.  In fact, I think that it's a great idea.  But ONLY if you're absolutely sure that you would use it, or could use it, or might use it.

I ... Well... I'm not Christian or any of that, but I just can't see a situation where abortion (even the morning after) would be something that I would ever be okay doing with my body, regardless of the situation.  That's just me, though.  So I won't be carrying this or any version of this now or in the future.

But it's definitely something to think about.

[ColdSoul]

You should have it, even if your against it in my opinion. What happens if you decide after your raped in a TEOTWAWKI situation that you would use it, but now don't have it?

What happens if your sister, companion, daughter is raped, or in a situation where she might die from pregnancy due to TEOTWAWKI or other reasons?

Whats the worst that happens it sits in your BOB and doesn't get used goes old and then is thrown away.

Of course I am not a women so I am not in a situation where I would need it, but if I could go and pick some up for my BOB I would just like I would love to have strong antibiotics and even some strong painkillers. None of those are available to me, but the morning after pill is available to some women (in some states from what I understand) with just walking up to a pharmacist. If it's available for men as well I would like to know as I would carry some just like I do band aids in my BOB.

I don't want to have to use the painkillers to help ease someone into death, but I rather have the option if it came down to it, and a buddy is in a situation where he is going to die but only after being in pain for a number of hours.

Also to me all women should have a concealed carry weapon no matter what it may be from a alarm, pepper spray, knife or firearm. They should also be trained in weapon-less defence.

[OKGranny]

I've been thinking about this post for hours and I honestly just don't know. Of course I'm past the age of worrying about it and since I had a hysterectomy at 30 I really never had to worry about it but I've got a daughter this would apply to and 11 and 14 year old granddaughters. Would I want the morning after pill available if my 14 year old granddaughter was raped? Yeah I suspect I would. Touchy subject and it brings up a lot of soul searching thoughts.

[Lunk]

Plan B does not cause an abortion. It is a large dose of hormones (like taking 3 birth control pills) that will prevent your body from releasing an egg for several days. That's all it does.

From the Plan B Front page: Plan B® One-Step isn't effective if you're already pregnant, and it won't terminate an existing pregnancy.

There are side effects just like taking the pill etc.

That being said, my opinion is it is your body do what you will.

[LvsChant]

+1, SW... I must admit... I'm so far from being able to consider this possibility that I didn't have a worthy response... (I don't even think artificial birth control is OK)

[Sister Wolf]

+1, SW... I must admit... I'm so far from being able to consider this possibility that I didn't have a worthy response... (I don't even think artificial birth control is OK)

I'm 100% with you here.  I can't even force myself to take birth control pills to make my monthly visitor easier to deal with.  TW & I can't get pregnant, and I'm always thinking, "yeah, but WHAT IF..."

I could never do it.  And since I don't have a sister or a daughter, I have absolutely no reason to carry one, ever.  I think that anybody else who wants to carry one is perfectly within their rights to do so, and I wouldn't look down on them or be judgmental about anybody carrying it, or using it.  I'd just personally rather die of a pregnancy than kill a fetus in my own body, or prevent one from forming.

[TekkieFae]

Personally, in a SHTF scenario the last thing I would need is 24x7 nausea and another mouth to feed.

I studied midwifery for a few years. Everything you take has risks. Plain old Vitamin C (without bioflavonoids) is an emmenagogue. (Brings on menses) It can be used as emergency birth control as well as can terminate a pregnancy. Parsley is also used for this, as well as herbs like Black Cohosh. Here is a great link: http://www.sisterzeus.com/Emmeno.htm and http://www.henriettesherbal.com/faqs/medi-3-7-abortives.html It would be good to check out just to know what to avoid if you wish to carry to term.

[amanadoo]

Ohh I had never thought of that. But I think it is a really, really good idea for a real emergency situation.

[ebonearth]

There's a big difference between taking things that hasten menses / stave off ovulation and abortion. I think in PAW, avoiding unwanted pregnancy is a boon. Regardless of how each of us feel about abortion I think having tools that avoid unwanted pregnancy to begin with are critical for survival. Personally, I'm more of a Black Cohosh type than a Plan B but YMMV. Ever since the news hit of the pregnant 10yo in Quintana Roo being refused an abortion (she was repeatedly raped by her stepfather) I have certainly understood that if we must look out for ourselves and our girls.

[Kerri_Rae]

I think it's a great idea! In fact I might just grab some soon and pack it in  I am not morally opposed to using it in the first place, and we all have different ideas about what it does (Is it birth control? Is it abortion?) but either way, I could barely function in a normally working society with all kinds of support while pregnant, I can't imagine having to go through that in an emergency situation.

[mamabear]

This is indeed a touchy topic. I personally would not carry one. I don't think I would take something like that. As was already stated, there are herbs that can be taken that will bring on menses and I would choose one of those over another chemical. I was on the depo shot for years and stopped getting it last summer. My body is still trying to readjust to being off of it (can you say hormonal misery?). I don't believe I will be putting any more chemicals like that in my body again. I do think though that it is certainly something to consider having on hand if you would take it.

[Dainty]

Another thing to consider....my naturopath was telling me the other day that it's very common for women who get pregnant to discover that their health actually improves. Of course, there is the opposite end of the spectrum where a woman is miserable all the time, but according to this article about a third of women find that their symptoms of a wide range if diseases including asthma, rheumatoid arthritis, Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, and psoriasis mysteriously disappear while they are pregnant only to reappear after the baby is born. I know on one thread elsewhere here on the forum a few people with Crohn's disease and asthma have talked about how their dependence on prescription medication is hindering their survival plans, well, how's pregnancy for a survival strategy!

Of course, it's not quite that simple. Every person's body is different, pregnancy can definitely make you feel worse instead of better, and as has already been mentioned here there are risks for childbirth and the logistics of another mouth to feed are certainly things to consider.

Still, I thought the fact that in some cases pregnancy could actually benefit survival was worth mentioning.

[LupaWolf]

Although a controversial issue, I think it is definitely one worth bringing up.
I cannot personally get pregnant anymore, but my only child and daughter can.  I am now considering having a dose available on her behalf, in case she chose to use it, only due to the risk to her health of carrying a child.  And there is a standing risk to her health, it is not hypothetical.  In the end it would be completely  up to her, but I would like to have the option available should she want it.  As stated, it is not an abortion pill, it is a prevention pill.  To me that makes a big difference.  But it may not to her... we will have to consider and discuss that.

On the other end of that, she is well versed in self defense methods, and is big and strong in spite of her physical issue.  It would take more than one attacker to get the best of her.  Unfortunately, that is a reality we must consider.

[Dainty]

I hope I'm not treading on any toes by mentioning this, but since we are talking about it...

According to my research, one of the ways emergency contraception works is by preventing implantation of a blastocyst by causing changes to the lining of the uterus. This method, of course, only comes into play if the other two approaches (preventing ovulation and impeding sperm) fail. The birth control pill works the same way - look it up!

For those who believe life begins at conception, preventing implantation of a fertilized egg is generally considered to be the same as an abortion.

I share for informative purposes.

[LvsChant]

Good information to have here, Dainty. There may be folks who were unaware of those facts. Having all the information helps people to make informed choices.

[Sister Wolf]

Lupa, yes - in your situation, I'd carry one too.  Definitely.

[mangyhyena]

First off, I'm a guy, so I wouldn't need to use this myself, obviously.  However, I have two young daughters to fend for and protect.  So, this is definitely on my radar.  My two girls will absolutely learn to protect themselves.  And I absolutely plan to be there to protect them.  But---you never know what circumstances life holds down the line.  It is possible that I won't be there to protect one of them when they need it most and it's possible that they won't be able to protect themselves due to a situation I haven't planned for.

The moral conflict with the morning after pill would be on my shoulders and my shoulders alone.  Why?  Because if one of my young daughters was raped in a teotwawki situation, she would take something for the pain as she heals and something extra in addition to that and that is all she would know.  I would probably not tell her she just took the morning after pill, depending on her age, especially if she's still very young.  If she's older, say in her mid-teens, then this decision to give it to her without telling her becomes very tough and I can't honestly tell you what I would do at that point.  Also, just because she takes one doesn't mean she just terminated a pregnancy.  She might not have gotten pregnant from the rape.  The pill would be a precaution against that.

If I'm wrong than I'll be the one to pay for that down the line when I'm judged, not her.  I'm a father and it's my job to protect her.  If I mess up on protecting her from a rape happening in the first place, then I can at least protect her from having to carry and deliver a rapist's baby at the possible cost of her own life.  I'd rather burn in Hell for slipping her the morning after pill and having her continue to live than lose her during childbirth in a world where medical help is not available.

In closing, I'll be the bastard if I have to in order to protect my daughters.  It's my job.

[Sister Wolf]

In closing, I'll be the bastard if I have to in order to protect my daughters.  It's my job.

That makes you a good father. 

[Herbal Prepper]

In my case, it's certainly something to consider.  I have had two very difficult pregnancies, one with pre-eclampsia.  Both resulted in c-sections.  I'm still a candidate for a VBAC because of how the incisions were done, but I do not want to risk another risky pregnancy or major surgery- especially if we were in a TEOTWAWKI situation.  My husband just got a vasectomy yesterday so that we don't have to worry about it ourselves.  But, if it were a rape?  That's a whole other issue. 

Of course, there's a whole lot more to worry about with a rape- STD's, including HIV, for example. 

[peacepiper]

Absolutely.

I'd be less worried about it for a personal disaster type of scenario, but if we're talking about a SHTF, TEOTWAKI type of situation, yes, yes, and yes. Rape is often used as a tool of war (and if martial law is declared that is war) and there are documented cases of rape after Katrina, especially in the dome and so called "rescue locations". In that kind of situation, there is very little minus food that I would want on me. Of course, that doesn't cover STDs and the mental trauma of being raped, but it's a start on peace of mind.

I would want to tend more towards herbs, but as I've never had to use them before as contraceptive, I have no personal means of their effectiveness. Plan B is more of something that I can depend on to work (minus expiration dates and so forth).

[Kayzonara]

A good idea to have on hand.  I HATE HATE HATE thinking about needing one for myself or my daughters  in the situation of an attack.  When I first read theis thread I was thinking more of the fact that I have quite enough children already and the difficulty of being pregnant in a shtf scenario.  *sigh* but we have to try and think of every angle.

[Possenti2264]

+1, SW... I must admit... I'm so far from being able to consider this possibility that I didn't have a worthy response... (I don't even think artificial birth control is OK)

+1

[Kate Change]

I think for people who support this type of thing its probably a good idea. 

I'm Catholic, so we use a natural family planning method. (It's worked perfectly for us so far.)  I suppose if I were to be raped and get pregnant I would at least have the baby.  If I couldn't separate what happened to me from the child, there are a couple of women I know who are foster parents and several other people at my Church who I'm sure would take the child on.  I'm not sure that I could blame a child for the act of a grown man, though, so for me, this isn't the right call. 

I must admit that if I had a preclampsia or had been told by a doctor that having another child would kill me, I would see this issue in a different light.  It's an interesting suggestion, though. 

[MamaRhi]

Trillias:

Absolutely. If I'm in a SHTF situation, I already have two kids I'm caring for by myself. The last thing I want adding to my life is carrying and caring for a child fathered by a rapist. And thank you for bringing it up, I hadn't thought about keeping this on hand. In CA, I can buy the morning after pill at a pharmacy. It's now on my list of prep stuff to make sure I get soon.

I use NFP and don't feel like I could ever abort or use the morning after pill with a dedicated partner. That is my choice. However, I am already fully aware of the difficulty of being a single mother. In a more SHTF situation, I know I would need a dedicated partner around in order to be having any more babies.

And as for my own daughter, yes I would give it to her. She's too young to be a mom yet old enough to menstruate. Rape itself is severely traumatic, I would want to minimize the effects if at all humanly possible. Just as I want her to be able to defend herself, I want to be able to take care of her too.

[Bull On Parade]

Not all morning after pills are the same. An ex girlfriend of mine told me of an experience she had with one brand (I don't know the name or the active drug), but it essentially forced her period, and left her in agony for a several days.

I'm not saying it's a good idea or a bad idea, the choice is yours, but be sure you're aware of the side effects of your particular pill and know how it works.

[Sweethearts Mom]

I didn't read this thread because I didn't have time. I want to stress this is my personal opinion. I am a Christian and I am very pro life. BUT....if we are in a situation such as the end of the world as we know it....you might not be able to have a baby in a nice clean birthing ward at the hospital. You may be in a situation where a baby crying would put your life in danger because you could not hide. Dear gosh what would happen to a baby if you died and the world was much worse than it is now. This world is bad enough but the thought of bringing a child into a post SHTF world...well I would use protection or in the case of rape I would use plan B. right or wrong

[amanadoo]

Not all morning after pills are the same. An ex girlfriend of mine told me of an experience she had with one brand (I don't know the name or the active drug), but it essentially forced her period, and left her in agony for a several days.

I'm not saying it's a good idea or a bad idea, the choice is yours, but be sure you're aware of the side effects of your particular pill and know how it works.

I'm not *sure,* but I think that what you're describing is fairly common. In my mind, at least, this is the reaction I would expect from taking the morning after pill. And it would be worth it to me, to not put the children I have now in danger of losing their mother to a birth gone wrong in TEOTWAWKI.

That's kind of an interesting point, though. We may all be envisioning slightly different things happening with the morning after pill, and using that information to base our opinions on (for those not basing their opinion on strong personal conviction one way or the other).

But I digress. Like I said, I would expect a really INTENSE and long menstruation-like period of time. Is it supposed to be more painless than that?

[amanadoo]

I looked it up and found that it IS supposed to be less painful than I'd imagined. http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/sex_relationships/facts/morningafterpill.htm and others said the same thing. Linking this one because I liked how they called it the "post-coital" pill. Like, even more of a buzz kill!