Author Topic: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape  (Read 10798 times)

Offline surfivor

  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 7262
  • Karma: 106
mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« on: June 10, 2010, 12:57:22 PM »

I was listening to democracy now podcast about physicians against torture complaining that the Bush admin and CIA broke Nuremberg laws on doing research on humans under torture. 
They mentioned this SERE program which they said they where trying to reverse engineer. That caught my attention, apparently this is a physiological training of some sort on how to resist torture (I guess ?) or how to survive any difficult and trying situation .. Anyone know of books on this or similar ?


http://www.training.sfahq.com/survival_training.htm

http://www.gosere.com/fast.html


Offline spooky-1

  • Survivalist Mentor
  • *****
  • Posts: 408
  • Karma: 17
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2010, 02:35:35 PM »
I went thru SERE training for aircrew in 2003 after earning my wings, I did not see any CIA people there taking notes. there is a peice of it where you "get captured" and they basically treat you EXACTLY like one would imagine, tied you up, water torture, yelling, sleep depravation. it is all on a small scale and does not last long but it is a taste none the less. they did not say too much on books or other study materials but they did have LOTS of written first hand accounts from Vietnam era POW's that they made us study.

Goatdog62

  • Guest
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2010, 05:38:30 PM »
I've been to six of these courses for Mil and Civ organizations. I don't know of any thorough books that adequately describe the training or any "results" of it.

Theses schools are very tough, but I doubt much useful research could come from it that isn't already commonly known.

Offline 18C Troll

  • Prepper
  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • Karma: 3
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2010, 10:18:36 PM »
I have been to two courses like this, while in the military.  From the survival aspect of it there are two schools of thought..1) oh crap Im lost I need to be seen to be rescued and 2) oh crap Im behind the lines and need to move and hide and get to friendlies.  Once captured, however, there is nothing that can prepare you for that.  Once you have the training you can adapt better or faster, but your still going to go through a life changing experiance.

Offline LadyRebekah67

  • Prepper
  • **
  • Posts: 65
  • Karma: 7
  • If it harms none, do as you will.
    • http://ladyrebekah67.wordpress.com
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2010, 08:35:47 PM »
Being acquainted with many who've been through this I can report what they've told me.  There won't be much published in the public about this though.  The general opinion is that we don't want to alert the baddies what kinds of situations our guys are specifically trained to resist or tolerate. 

Those who've done it say that they it was very helpful and beneficial.  In the USMC version, they have to sign a waiver allowing the 'trainers' to break up to 2 bones.  Sleep deprivation, major boot camp style verbal abuse, physical abuse, searching for personal weaknesses and preying on them. 

They say they're glad they did it.  That they were brought to what they thought was their limit and surpassed it, many times.  It gave them personal internal strength knowing that they can endure and surpass their worst expectations and are less likely to break knowing that they've already been there, done that and have some practice getting into the mental space that they become endurable and unbreakable.  Intense, scary, but learned how to think rationally while under extreme stress.  No one came back regretting the experience, though they were all quite exhausted.

Regarding torture...  Is it not strange that we don't set the limits for intel gathering at what we subject our own to?  There are many ways to gain intel that don't do long term harm...  Hmmmm, it's a thinker.

Offline surfivor

  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 7262
  • Karma: 106
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2010, 06:40:17 AM »
Being acquainted with many who've been through this I can report what they've told me.  There won't be much published in the public about this though.  The general opinion is that we don't want to alert the baddies what kinds of situations our guys are specifically trained to resist or tolerate. 

Those who've done it say that they it was very helpful and beneficial.  In the USMC version, they have to sign a waiver allowing the 'trainers' to break up to 2 bones.  Sleep deprivation, major boot camp style verbal abuse, physical abuse, searching for personal weaknesses and preying on them. 

They say they're glad they did it.  That they were brought to what they thought was their limit and surpassed it, many times.  It gave them personal internal strength knowing that they can endure and surpass their worst expectations and are less likely to break knowing that they've already been there, done that and have some practice getting into the mental space that they become endurable and unbreakable.  Intense, scary, but learned how to think rationally while under extreme stress.  No one came back regretting the experience, though they were all quite exhausted.

Regarding torture...  Is it not strange that we don't set the limits for intel gathering at what we subject our own to?  There are many ways to gain intel that don't do long term harm...  Hmmmm, it's a thinker.


 I tend to believe torture is an attempt at social engineering to destroy society .. perhaps the real goal of the elites and the black arts ..

 The mental states you mention I believe can be reached through meditation and connecting to the divine. The bhagavad gita and other scriptures containe the true warrior essence:

psalm 18:

1I will love thee, O LORD, my strength.

 2The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.

 3I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.

 4The sorrows of death compassed me, and the floods of ungodly men made me afraid.

 5The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.

 6In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.

 7Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth.

 8There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.

 9He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.

 10And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.

 11He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.

 12At the brightness that was before him his thick clouds passed, hail stones and coals of fire.

 13The LORD also thundered in the heavens, and the Highest gave his voice; hail stones and coals of fire.

 14Yea, he sent out his arrows, and scattered them; and he shot out lightnings, and discomfited them.

 15Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.

 16He sent from above, he took me, he drew me out of many waters.

 17He delivered me from my strong enemy, and from them which hated me: for they were too strong for me.

 18They prevented me in the day of my calamity: but the LORD was my stay.

 19He brought me forth also into a large place; he delivered me, because he delighted in me.

 20The LORD rewarded me according to my righteousness; according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.

 21For I have kept the ways of the LORD, and have not wickedly departed from my God.

 22For all his judgments were before me, and I did not put away his statutes from me.

 23I was also upright before him, and I kept myself from mine iniquity.

 24Therefore hath the LORD recompensed me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in his eyesight.

 25With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright;

 26With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward.

 27For thou wilt save the afflicted people; but wilt bring down high looks.

 28For thou wilt light my candle: the LORD my God will enlighten my darkness.

 29For by thee I have run through a troop; and by my God have I leaped over a wall.

 30As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.

 31For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?

 32It is God that girdeth me with strength, and maketh my way perfect.

 33He maketh my feet like hinds' feet, and setteth me upon my high places.

 34He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.

 35Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy right hand hath holden me up, and thy gentleness hath made me great.

 36Thou hast enlarged my steps under me, that my feet did not slip.

 37I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed.

 38I have wounded them that they were not able to rise: they are fallen under my feet.

 39For thou hast girded me with strength unto the battle: thou hast subdued under me those that rose up against me.

 40Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; that I might destroy them that hate me.

 41They cried, but there was none to save them: even unto the LORD, but he answered them not.

 42Then did I beat them small as the dust before the wind: I did cast them out as the dirt in the streets.

 43Thou hast delivered me from the strivings of the people; and thou hast made me the head of the heathen: a people whom I have not known shall serve me.

 44As soon as they hear of me, they shall obey me: the strangers shall submit themselves unto me.

 45The strangers shall fade away, and be afraid out of their close places.

 46The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and let the God of my salvation be exalted.

 47It is God that avengeth me, and subdueth the people under me.

 48He delivereth me from mine enemies: yea, thou liftest me up above those that rise up against me: thou hast delivered me from the violent man.

 49Therefore will I give thanks unto thee, O LORD, among the heathen, and sing praises unto thy name.

 50Great deliverance giveth he to his king; and sheweth mercy to his anointed, to David, and to his seed for evermore.


Offline LadyRebekah67

  • Prepper
  • **
  • Posts: 65
  • Karma: 7
  • If it harms none, do as you will.
    • http://ladyrebekah67.wordpress.com
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2010, 08:08:52 AM »
I've never been in this situation and hope I never will but...  I wonder what I or any of us would find acceptable or necessary if faced with the impending harm or death of a kidnapped child or loved one and only one person had the knowledge of how to rescue/save them.  I doubt social engineering would be of concern to me above saving the life in question.  In addition, not everyone finds the strength they need to survive such extremity in the biblical gods of others.  Just one womans' opinion.

Offline surfivor

  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 7262
  • Karma: 106
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2010, 08:23:45 AM »
I've never been in this situation and hope I never will but...  I wonder what I or any of us would find acceptable or necessary if faced with the impending harm or death of a kidnapped child or loved one and only one person had the knowledge of how to rescue/save them.  I doubt social engineering would be of concern to me above saving the life in question.  In addition, not everyone finds the strength they need to survive such extremity in the biblical gods of others.  Just one womans' opinion.

 That seems to be the reason you always hear for the justification of such, though such scenarios seem rare, unusual or non existent. They never occur in the bible and before 9/11 no psychologist or ethicist ever considered them to be essential questions. You can not torture people who may actually be innocent just based on suspicion either which I think has happened a great deal as well and that make actually be the norm more than we realize ..

  It's not that you are attempting social engineering, you are just a pawn and tool of others in the invisible empire and for reasons of power and perversion satan makes it appealing to some for such reasons as well ..

 Jesus Christ suffered such torture if you think about it ..

however, realize I am not this body, I am spirit .. The spirit can not be killed, it can not be burned, drowned or frozen ..

 I observe that all phenomenon comes to and end, I observe cessation of suffering, I observe that desires are transient and come to an end, I observe letting go .. I have desires, but I am not bound by them ..

I endure pain and suffering in order to develop empathy and cultivate wisdom for the benefit of all sentient beings ..

 The worst suffering is not physical pain but mental .. that is why soilitary confinement and the idea (mental construct) of endless pain is the worst pain .. thus we battle against not flesh and blood but the forces of darkness, of self hatred, self loathing, worry, fear, hatred, disbelief, depression, anxiety, insanity etc .. those are what kill the spirit .. but he who overcomes these transcends death itself just as Christ died on the cross but yet he lives on .. -- still working on that, praying for greater faith ..

It is also why many of the wounded vets are wounded spiritually, psychologically and why there is so much suicide amongst many vets .. That seems to be where the real battle is ..

 



« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 08:26:39 AM by surfivor »

Offline LadyRebekah67

  • Prepper
  • **
  • Posts: 65
  • Karma: 7
  • If it harms none, do as you will.
    • http://ladyrebekah67.wordpress.com
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2010, 08:54:33 AM »
Since it's inappropriate to get into a religious debate here...  Back to SERE.  Being inextricably tied to the military, IMHO they were not drafted but chose to serve.  They have no choice or opinion about the validity of the military actions their superiors choose.  Whatever helps them get through any possible scenario and return home as unharmed and psychologically stable as they can, well, I'm all for it.  After years of man practicing warfare in its' many forms, though I admit they're still learning and relearning, I'm sure they have weighed the benefits of such training against the detriments and have obviously found it to be useful.  It's difficult, it's ugly, we may or may not personally agree with it, but it's still a choice, either in entering the military or going into the few MOS's that require it.  Not all do.  When facing an enemy who does not adhere to Geneva Convention standards, who is willing to torture and saw heads off infidels, whatever gives them the mental capacity to SERE, so be it.  Perhaps we'll find no middle ground on which to agree.  That's ok.  The world would be a really boring place if everyone was exactly the same.  ;)

Offline Docwatmo

  • May Ignite Spontaneously
  • Administrator
  • Survival Veteran
  • *******
  • Posts: 8743
  • Karma: 261
  • The Prepper Rising from the Ashes
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2010, 09:16:57 AM »
Whether we like it or not, or believe we live in a utopia where torture doesn't occur or shouldn't occur, it does happen.  So anything that can push us to our limits and give us an idea of how far we can go before reaching that point is a good thing.  Its that kind of personal knowledge of ourselves and our limitations that can help us determine our next steps.  I went through an abbreviated introductory SERE course back in the early 90's,  ours was more the outdoor evasion portion and very little of the after capture portion, but it was still VERY educational.  SERE isn't torture or resisting torture alone, its resisting as much as possible while formulating the escape and evading the enemy.  If you have been simulation tortured and have a rough idea in your mind how much you can take, you may have a leg up on escaping that someone who has never been through the experience has.  Just like anything, if you have thought about it or run scenarios in your mind or experienced something, you have experience, which can be critical in a high stress Survival situation.   

Again whether we believe in torturing is irrelevant, others DO torture and we have to be prepared for that eventuality.

Thats on the torture receiving side of things.  On the torturing side, as stated above, if someone had knowledge of the whereabouts of my kidnapped child and were holding out, I would have no compunction whatsoever in torturing their worthless carcass to get at that information.  Is it right? No, Is it ethical? Hell No.   But my child's life is worth far more than some scumbag kidnapper so I can EASILY justify it in that case.  Some may think I'm wrong for thinking that, but thats how I feel.   

Offline LadyRebekah67

  • Prepper
  • **
  • Posts: 65
  • Karma: 7
  • If it harms none, do as you will.
    • http://ladyrebekah67.wordpress.com
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2010, 09:27:38 AM »
Well reasoned and well stated Doc.  ;)  So glad I'm not the lone wolf here.

Offline SaltyHobbit

  • Senior Survivalist
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
  • Karma: 28
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2010, 01:25:47 PM »
Surfivor, I do not think you clearly understand what is important with SERE school! The purpose as others have stated is so you can Survive, Evade, Resist, and escape. You may view it as breaking down society, but the few who go through this torture (as you call it, and to a degree it may be) is all voluntary. Now you must realize the people who do go through this it is to help prepare them for actual torture (your opinion though valid does not carry any weight with other societies in the world.) It is also voluntary by these individuals from their choosing of their profession (most involve dispensing a violence of action), and the society they live in.

You say this is the reason with so many vets committing suicide. Well I myself have not read the DOD studies on this so I am not a good source of info on this, but I do realize that we also live in a softer (put feelings on sleeves so everyone feels bad for you) and do not forget gentler one at that.

The battlefield is not a place where being whiny or having a weak disposition is a benefit to your comrades until the mission is done. That being said the military has only carried on the trend that our society has put before us. They have lowered standards, training is not as difficult, discipline is not as strongly enforced, the initial training of soldiers (I am in the Army only ones I can speak for) is not as rough as it once would and should have stayed. The stress put on those who entered the service before me was a lot harder than when I went through and I felt cheated. It is there to prepare you to deal with stress and keep your mind right when you are in a hostile area. It is there to help keep you from breaking down on the inside.

Now I am aware that some people just are not meant for that type of work and that is where they should have upheld the standards and some sort of selection process to being with.I work in an ER at a, Army post now and I see all kinds of people talking about killing themselves and some who have tried. I will tell you right now in a no kidding way that 95% of those have never deployed. They were about to be on orders to deploy or were going to go down range to join their units.

Yes, every service member all through time has been mentally changed through these events. It will always be that way and those who have not been through will not understand. It is the same way with joining the service to begin with (call it brainwashing if you want), but the main goal is to build you from the ground up to become a part of that services society. You are to be where you have a bond with people that you are willing to sacrifice for besides your country. It is more about the people with you. They become your family and this country needs men and women who are willing to put themselves through that to do what our country asks of them.

Getting back to the SERE portion... As I was getting at these people who go through this training generally have a skill set that will be putting them in a position where they are more likely to face torture from a lot less humane people than you make us out to be (might not be intentional just my read)

I am not as versed in the Bible as you are but I know Big Guns in the Sky has looked out for me more than I think I'm worth both here in the states and over seas. I just want to point out that there is a verse in I think it's Proverbs or in Isiah ------where David is asking God to---- prepare his hands for war and be able to use his sword----

So.... I want all the training I can get if I am going to be a soldier on the battlefield put in harms way because my country asked me to. The best tool for war is my mind and the better prepared I am the more efficient I will be for my own, my comrades, and if need be my countries survival!

Oh and just to let you know I support getting information however they do in order to save a fellow service members life, and much more the lives of the innocent on American soil

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
George Orwell

Offline Greywolf27

  • Chief Kitty Petter
  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 2667
  • Karma: 33
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2010, 01:47:34 PM »
I have not been through SERE, and I have also not been in the armed forces. 

I have participated in sports from an early age.  through high school, I went to several wrestling camps that were designed around Ranger/SEAL training. 

I would argue that the stressing of the body brings on a "forced" meditation, or at least the successful completion of the activity is reached via meditation.  I am of the belief that meditation does not require that the body be still.

Offline joeinwv

  • The Bee Whisperer
  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 2579
  • Karma: 92
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2010, 03:10:04 PM »
All interesting responses - I think there are some things that you cannot push yourself to experience voluntarily - you need to be on a team or in a situation that forces you to exceed what you thought were your limits.

I do not condone torture - it is certainly a bad thing. However, I do not believe we should publicly discuss (as a nation) what steps we are willing to take or the potential legal ramifications those steps may incur. To do so gives comfort to our enemies by taking the teeth out of our interrogation process. By telling the world the limits we will use during interrogation, we make those tactics less effective.


Offline SaltyHobbit

  • Senior Survivalist
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
  • Karma: 28
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2010, 03:29:59 PM »
All interesting responses - I think there are some things that you cannot push yourself to experience voluntarily - you need to be on a team or in a situation that forces you to exceed what you thought were your limits.

I see your point and agree. However, in order to get to that team (in the aspect I am hinting at) you do have to volunteer and can quit whenever you like. The situation though not everyone has volunteered to get to that point and that sucks but is the way life works

Offline surfivor

  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 7262
  • Karma: 106
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2010, 04:21:40 AM »
 There are some responses here with some good thoughtful stuff ..

 What I wanted to make clear, I did not say SERE is social engineering but torture advocated by the govt to instill fear throughout society and the world and introduce nazi methods into the military ..

If you wanted to torture someone who had your daughter whatever, that's fine except that you would never do it the way the many worst cases that the military do it .. torturing people day and night for months on end in the worst way you can imagine. Besides that, you are just following a fantasy because no citizen can torture anyone. You can only torture people under military orders while in the military, just like when you leave the military you have to hand in your grenades, M16 and whatever other toys you can only have as a professional soldier and never as a citizen under any circumstances. On top of that, I guess they can order you to torture people and then court martial you for following that order .. People I guess would like to see a world where the military and police are heavily armed, can spy on everyone, have their way with whomever they chose and citizens can not own pocket knives or expect any privacy ..

 If you tortured someone in some mild way, which breaking someone's fingers is probably mild compared to what they do anyway, at least you would tell them why you are doing it and they could give a response or plead their case .. But we now have laws that say people can be held without charges ..

Our govt seems to be trying to make torture standard practice against it's own citizens.


US constitution:

Section. 9.
...
Clause 2: The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

 Bush suspended habeus corpus, you have no right to appeal or as to know why you are detained ..

Bill of rights:
8. Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

 Who needs that ?





Offline Docwatmo

  • May Ignite Spontaneously
  • Administrator
  • Survival Veteran
  • *******
  • Posts: 8743
  • Karma: 261
  • The Prepper Rising from the Ashes
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2010, 06:06:20 AM »
Besides that, you are just following a fantasy because no citizen can torture anyone.

Sure they can, it may not be legal, but it can be done.   (Just have to get to them before the authorities do  ;) ) Doesn't make it right, but yes it CAN be done.  Just like it can and is done (Fully sanctioned no less) by many countries and groups of people around the world.  Hence the need to simulate and make an attempt to prepare our forces for that possibility.


Offline The Professor

  • Tactical Skittle Assassin
  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 2737
  • Karma: 381
  • All we have to do is create another universe
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2010, 10:07:39 AM »
I've been through two versions of SERE-type courses. . .I went through the Army's version in 86 and an AF version in 88.  Silly me, in the first one I figured that since I'd avoided capture and made it to my evac point that I'd won. . .

Bastards.

The interrogation and imprisonment portion was not a Happy Time for me.  The only unrealistic part of it, for me, was knowing that the course was over in a few days, so that made it much easier for me to endure.  It was also easier knowing they wouldn't break anything or truly "torture" me.  Not trying to minimize the education or experience, but no matter how bad it got (and it honestly was not easy at all, sometimes almost pushing me to a limit I did not want to admit having) I did know there were some parameters.

That having been said, one of the things that stuck with me was something I'd read when still in high school:

". . .from the moment you go to prison you must put your cozy past firmly behind you.  At the very threshold, you must say to yourself: "My life is over, a little early to be sure, but there's nothing to be done about it.  I shall never return to freedom, I am condemned to die. . .now or a little later. But later on, it will be even harder, so the sooner the better.  I no longer have any property whatsoever.  For me, those I love have died, and for them I have died.  From today on, my body is useless and alien to me.  Only my spirit and my conscience remain precious and important to me."

Confronted by such a prisoner, the interrogator will tremble.  Only the man who has renounced everything can win that victory. . ."

From: The Gulag Archipelago, by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

While that book may not exactly be described as a training manual, I have found that it does a lot to show how an individual can mentally survive an imprisonment and open up one's eyes to the reality of such a situation.

The Professor

Offline surfivor

  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 7262
  • Karma: 106
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2010, 01:34:18 AM »
 Professor, that book sounds like it might be worth checking out ..

 I have Victor Frankle's book, he was a holocaust survivor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_Cey-UZX-E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT7xA3YN57Q&NR=1
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 01:37:59 AM by surfivor »

Offline LvsChant

  • Resident Master Mudder
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 7323
  • Karma: 603
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2010, 06:09:13 AM »
The Gulag Archipelago is an excellent book regarding the Soviet imprisonment of people and how they survived. I can remember reading it years ago.

There is another book my husband and I read when he was a young 2LT in helicopter flight school about Vietnam POW's and how they survived their treatment because of the lessons learned from the Korean War. Apparently, there were many factors that led to much worse results in Korea for the POW's there. Prior to that, I'm not sure our military really did much training on what to do in a situation where the captors used torture and abuse on their prisoners. iirc much of the training to prepare our troops for potential capture, train them in how to resist, and how to help each other in such a situation came into practice after the terrible situation many faced in Korea. This was held to be one reason for the much better mental preparedness and resistance by the captured troops in Vietnam. I've emailed my husband to ask the name of the book (I can't recall) and will post it once he helps my poor memory out.

I really think that, for those having experienced this training, knowing their own personal limits and how they react to such treatment is valuable foreknowledge to have when facing the possibility of capture by potential torturers. Even just reading the book and learning how people have been able to resist and work together is a valuable exercise for everyone. Facing the worst, mentally, can be an exercise in itself.

Offline joeinwv

  • The Bee Whisperer
  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 2579
  • Karma: 92
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2010, 10:46:50 AM »
"The Count of Monte Cristo" may not be a good primer for SERE situations, but it is one of my favorite books.

To be honest, I think I might take modern torture over historical... there are a lot of atrocities out there in the world, but hard to imagine some current interrogator matching a Vlad the impaler, Ghengis Khan, Tomas de Torquemada... might as well throw the Salem Witch Trials in this group to have a US example.

Offline LvsChant

  • Resident Master Mudder
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 7323
  • Karma: 603
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2010, 11:04:12 AM »
Little Victories  by Jeremiah Denton. That's it. My Dad heard Denton speak to a group of NG officers many years ago and said he was an amazing person.

Truly an excellent book... I highly recommend it.

Offline 18C Troll

  • Prepper
  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • Karma: 3
Re: mllitary: SERE - Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2010, 02:15:13 PM »
The military version of SERE that I attended, was the best school that I have been to.  Altough many of my peers would disagree, I would gladly attend again and would like to become an Instructor there.  Why?  Because of the professionalism of the Cadre there.  In the Survival and Evasion part, the instructors not only knew the craft but were primitive skills experts.  By no means were they  Cody Lundin, but they consistently walked the Appalachia trail wearing clothes from animals they caught and skinned, ate only what they found, hunted, or trapped, and worked on their tradecraft.  And had a support system of like minded individuals who could answer any questions we the students came up with.  Many times they got with us the next day or brought a friend in to teach us the correct technique or why our suggestion wouldn't work.  Which is just as important to what will work.  The Resistance and Escape portion of the course will teach you more about yourself and how you react to adversity more than any other school I know of.   They do not torture you, but make you realize that a good palm slap upside the face could easily turn into a rain of rifle butts or monkey stomps very quickly.  Just like what has been mentioned in the show, in the Concentration camps of Nazi Germany the strong helped the weak.  The strong will always help the weak, with few exceptions.  When you come out the other side it is a great feeling, but you realize that the little time you were help captive, is nothing compared to what they, and other captives went through.  Like Fedor Emelianenko said after his first defeat in 10 years. " You cant fall, If you dont stand."