I'm thinking about buying this gun--what do you think?

[endurance]

.308 vs. .223

For general hunting, these would both be sufficient for hunting pretty good-sized game. The .223 would seem to have more versatility in hunting as there may be more critters on the smaller end of the scale that could be hunted without skinning and dicing it (leaving it to be picked up in pieces from the forest floor) upon impact.

Any thoughts concerning the .223 being a better choice for allowing a greater spread of possible creatures to be hunted versus the greater stopping power of the .308?

It really depends on where you live, what you can hunt and if you're talking about legally hunting.  Here in Colorado and most western states, the smallest caliber rifle you can legally take big game with is .243.  You can legally hunt small game with a .223 or a .308, but you can't legally hunt big game (deer, elk, antelope, bear, mountain lion) with a .223.

That's pretty much why I bought my FN-FAL, so I could have an assault rifle that I could legally take big game (of course, I have to use a 5 round capacity magazine to do that).  SHTF, could you take down a deer with a .223?  Sure.  Check  your local game laws.  .223 may be legal in your state for big game.

By the way, this dilemma is why I bought a Savage model 24 in .22 over 20ga.  20ga. slug is legal and effective for big game, but I also have a .22 on the same gun.  Best of all, with one screw, the entire gun breaks down into a 24" long package to fit in your pack.  Of course the downfall is no scope, limited range to about 75, maybe 100 yards, and single shot, but those were compromises that made sense to me for a very versatile BUG (bug out gun).  Combine that with a high capacity handgun and I think you have a great combination for minimal weight and bulk.

[Truik]

You can legally hunt small game with a .223 or a .308, but you can't legally hunt big game (deer, elk, antelope, bear, mountain lion) with a .223.

By the way, this dilemma is why I bought a Savage model 24 in .22 over 20ga.  20ga. slug is legal and effective for big game, but I also have a .22 on the same gun.

I see. I had not realized there was that much of a difference between the .308 and the .223 (again, I have never shot a .223).

I think the answer for me is a .308 and then something like a .22 for small stuff. The Savage 20 gauge/.22 combo sounds pretty cool, too! I kinda stuck on just getting a rifle for the range and accuracy, though.

Thanks for the great info!

[endurance]

I see. I had not realized there was that much of a difference between the .308 and the .223 (again, I have never shot a .223).

I think the answer for me is a .308 and then something like a .22 for small stuff. The Savage 20 gauge/.22 combo sounds pretty cool, too! I kinda stuck on just getting a rifle for the range and accuracy, though.

Thanks for the great info!

There is definitely a noticeable difference between the two.  I think you're definitely on the right track with the .308  and .22 to cover the full range of ground critters (neither of which are bird guns by any stretch of the imagination).  A .308 is a 300 yard gun, a .223 is a 150-200 yard gun (I know I've invited somebody to brag about a 400 yard .223 shot or a 600 yard .308 shot, but seriously, the odds of wounding an animal at that range vs. an accurate clean kill rise dramatically beyond those distances).  Both have their purposes in life, but for securing meat for the table the .308 is definitely the grocery getter. 

As for the .22/20ga, while I came up with the idea while hunting deer last year whilst seeing nothing but squirrels and rabbits all day, I have no intention of making it my regular hunting rifle.  I'll leave that to my Browning BAR .270 Win and my Marlin model 60 .22.  When I saw the used Savage for $375 at the gunshow, despite needing some work, I had to get it.  It really is a one gun solution in a true TEOTWAWKI for food production. 

[TheZenful1]

Got a short list;

1.) S&W M&P 9
2.) Remington 870
3.) AR (probably a S&W M&P-15)

Don't know what extras besides mags for the 9 and 15... When I'm closer to purchase, I'll probably come seeking answers around here.

[rodgers65]

1. S&W M&P 9 Pro 5" - If I can ever find one...  I plan to use it for IDPA style shooting.  Had considered an XDM 5.25, but it's not allowed in the class I want to shoot.  Also looked at a Glock 34, but I just can't get comfortable with the grip angle.  Had a chance to fire an M&P and fell in love.  I'll be trading in my XDM 9 3.8" towards it.

2. Springfield Range Officer - If I can ever fine one... I just don't feel like a true American without a 1911.  I've been shooting some indoor .22 bullseye lately and might eventually give three gun a try.  This model seems a good affordable choice that could fit the bill.

3. Springfield M1A - If I can ever save up the cash... I want something with knockdown power that can reach out pretty far and have always had my eye one. 

[blueyedmule]

Waiting for my S&W M&P 15 Sport.

I'd consider a trade--my S&W 4506-1 for a Glock 19 in order to limit the number of ammunition I need to have.

Perhaps a Marlin Model 60 or Ruger 10/22. I have an old bolt action single-shot .22, my granddad's. I wouldn't ever part with that willingly, though it's probably near-worthless to anyone else. It might be nice to have a small-game weapon that is semi-auto.

Got the shotgun covered. Got the cc weapon covered, which is why I don't have to do the .45 trade. It's just a consideration.

After the black gun purchase, I'm back to focusing on food storage, gardening, water storage, etc.. Can't spend it all on guns ( I know, blasphemy, but you can't eat bullets and not all SHTF scenarios have Mad Max or even Upset Melvin, for that matter).

[Connecticut Prepper]

I've been thinking about the Smith and Wesson Shield in 9mm  and the Beretta 92

[backwoods_engineer]

It really depends on where you live, what you can hunt and if you're talking about legally hunting.  Here in Colorado and most western states, the smallest caliber rifle you can legally take big game with is .243.  You can legally hunt small game with a .223 or a .308, but you can't legally hunt big game (deer, elk, antelope, bear, mountain lion) with a .223.

Late to this thread, but thought I'd chime in.  Many states (like North Carolina, where I live) allow .223/5.56 to be used in hunting deer and hogs.  That is spreading because of the popularity of the AR-15 platform.  (I know, the Elmer Fudds are having heart attacks, seeing them scary "black rifles" in the woods!)

[Canadian Prepper]

Late to this thread, but thought I'd chime in.  Many states (like North Carolina, where I live) allow .223/5.56 to be used in hunting deer and hogs.  That is spreading because of the popularity of the AR-15 platform.  (I know, the Elmer Fudds are having heart attacks, seeing them scary "black rifles" in the woods!)

I certainly have no aversions to taking a "black rifle" into the woods and greatly regret the fact that like handguns, it's illegal to shoot an AR in Canada outside of an approved shooting range. A shooting buddy of mine who used to 4x4 in the backcountry to the north of me used to carry one with a full 30 round mag as his bear defence gun back in the days that it was okay to do that. People up here still hunt coyotes with similar .223 rifles that aren't subject to such restrictions (i.e. Mini-14, various CZ-58 variants that can even take AR mags, the SU-16F, etc) and I'd do the same if I had such a rifle.

The issue with .223 for deer sized game rests on a couple of factors. For starters it just breaks 1000 foot pounds of pressure at 100 yards (900 ft lbs being the recommended minimum for deer), whereas even the 7.62x39 by comparison is just under 900 foot pounds at 200 yards. The .223 bullets are also lighter, and if you were to use the typical varmint load (SP or HP), the bullet could very well break apart before getting really deep into the animal. Even at 100 yards, you would probably want to refrain from anything less than a clear broadside shot where you can be reasonably assured that the shot can penetrate to the vitals.  Up here the woods can be pretty thick, so if I know that I'll be shooting under 100 yards I'd sooner pick a good slug gun or heavier centerfire before choosing up a .223 that could easily be deflected by foliage

If you live in an area where bigger game like bears, elk, or moose abound, the .223 is hardly desirable for them while the .308 would handle all of those animals without difficulty. In some parts of North America, white-tailed deer vary considerably in average size, with smaller subspecies generally found further to the south, which may further dictate the appropriatness of .223 in some locales. As for hogs, I'd probably not see a problem using .223 on one from a tree stand where I can carefully take my shot, but it would hardly be my favourite choice for a drive!

.223 might be cheaper for target shooting, and it would be cool to have an AR if you already don't but even on the range or in the battlefield, the .308 has the advantage at longer ranges when wind's an issue. That's why the M14 is still used as the Designated Marksman Rifle by units in Afghanistan. A .308 bolt gun or M1A will give you lots of fun shooting and take you to your limits.....

[flippydidit]

When I read the title my knee jerk reactionary answer is, "Yes.  Buy it.  Doesn't matter.  Buy it."