Author Topic: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger  (Read 9100 times)

Offline Jon George

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AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« on: December 05, 2010, 06:50:50 PM »
I am looking at my first rifle and was going to buy the Ruger 10/22 and found that for a few dollars more i could buy the bull barrel,is this worth the extra  $100.00 or should i get the basic. I also wanted to see if since i was already looking to buy an AR-15 should i just save up a few more bucks and buy the AR-15 with the .22 conversion kit. i would have a heavy .22 for practic and hunting and also a great rifle. thanks for the ideas.

Offline joeinwv

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2010, 07:13:32 PM »
I have not found the need for a bull barrel in my 10/22 - it is more accurate than I expected with bulk ammo inside 100yds. I have the sporter stock and 22" bbl, which gives it more the feel of a full size rifle than the carbine.

Opinions vary, I am a fan of having separate firearms as opposed to conversion kits.

Offline soupbone

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2010, 07:31:37 PM »
Jon,

If I were you, I would go with the 10/22 first. Standard barrel is OK. You can get a set of aftermarket sights that mimic the sight picture of an AR and an aftermarket pistol grip stock to kind of mimic the feel. The advantages over the AR + conversion kit are twofold: First, the cost of the 10/22 + accessories is considerably less than the cost of an AR + conversion kit; and secondly, if you plan to hunt with it, you can put the classical wood stock back on and not scare people you might run across in the woods (or landowners on whose land you ask to hunt). This may seem unimportant to folks like us in the forum, but is of concern when dealing with the general public. Also consider the "going gray" or "under the RADAR" aspect of the wood stock: who needs to know what you have?

And remember, The Highlander, Connor MacLeoid's admonition that "there can only be but one" only applys to Immortals, not to gun owners.

The 10/22 is an excellent training and sporting rifle; you will not be dissapointed. This rifle has been discussed in depth on this forum; do a quick search and you'll get loads of good information.

Bad pun unintended.   :D

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Offline NCBuzzter

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2010, 08:06:06 AM »
Here's my nickel's worth i love my 10-22 Rugers I have both a standard and a hammer forged stainless bull barrell if you can stand the extra weight the hammer forged barrells have tack driving capabilities when set up properly. I have a couple of ar's as well but don't care for them as a hunting round too fast and too small prefer something with more knock down for hunting although the 223's are accurate i have put 9 rounds in the same hole at 100 yds with standard ammo. I guess it all depends on what you prefer or want to do with them.but back to the subject you can't go wrong with the ruger's no matter which you pick that may have been more than a nickel's worth ;D

Offline quiet-man

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2010, 10:15:53 AM »
My first gun was a 10/22 I bought new in '71 for $42.00. I've put 4000+ rounds through it punching  rabbits, squirrels, crows & paper without a hiccup. Still have it, all factory original, performs flawlessly. So let me ask, what do you want a gun for? You mentioned  money is an issue, like most of us, it's a factor. I bought my AR-15 around '82, and damn glad I did. I'm in Kalifornia, where guns like that are now verboten & evil. You never know when the Gov't will try to ban evil again, so buy the AR first. Then save up again and get the 10/22. Shoot the AR awhile and get comfortable before you think about mounting stuff on it or "tricking it out". But that's
just my positive pessimist thoughts.

Offline soupbone

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2010, 03:13:39 PM »
Again, I respectfully disagree with the quiet man. I would still get the 10/22 first. That way, you will have something to shoot and learn on at lower cost. A nation-wide ban on ARs and the like is unlikely, and even if it does happen, so what? Everyone from CZ to NEF makes a rifle in .223, and the only thing a CZ bolt gun will not do is send 20 - 30 rounds down range at one sitting. It will shoot 1/2 moa though. And it will save you from shooting yourself out of ammo.

I've seen that happen - its embarassing.

In a survival situation, its best not to draw attention to yourself, and black rifles tend to do that.

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Offline The Professor

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2010, 03:51:19 PM »
Jon,

There are a few issues here, I'll try to cover all that I think should be addressed.

Rather than address what to buy first, let me cover the bull-barrel question:  Chances are, you won't need it right off the bat.  The 10/22 is a nice little gun, but the bull-barrel is somewhat specialized. Until you can start out-shooting the inherent accuracy of the base rifle, or shoot so much that you need the extra barrel area to aid in cooling, it's really not necessary.  Of course, I spend a lot of time minimizing the "necessity" argument when talking to the wife about something I really want.

As to which rifle to get first. . .well, it sounds like a cop-out, but. . .that's all up to you.  It comes down to what you think you need or want.  The 10/22 is a great gun to learn shooting fundamentals.  It can also provide meat for the pot, get rid of annoying pests, etc.  It's also quite fun and comparatively inexpensive in both initial investment and continued purchase of ammunition.

The AR is more of a specialized rifle.  While I'm not wanting this thread to deteriorate into a this-vs-that discussion. . .an AR is a good defensive rifle or an excellent rifle for the various shooting sports such as 3-gun.  With proper ammo selection, it is an excellent post-TEOTWAWKI General Purpose Rifle.  (oh, and they're a lot of fun to shoot)

But, compared to the 10/22, you're going to pay more for everything (the base rifle, any additions and ammunition) except, perhaps, for magazines.  Replacement parts are easier to get and can usually be swapped out with minimal difficulty.

However, one caveat: don't buy your 10/22 from a box store.  Spend a few more bucks and get one from a proper gun dealer.  There IS a difference (or at least there was 5 years ago).  Ruger has different specs for guns bought in very large quantities to be sold at larger non-specialized stores.  There's a different metallurgy for the receivers and barrels, the finish isn't as clean and the fittings not as tight.

Chances are, you won't notice them very much unless you do decide to go for the super-accuracy or high-round count mindset. 

If my son were to ask me the same question, though, I'd suggest he buy the 10/22 from a reputable gun dealer, learn to shoot it and then go after the AR. 

Hope it helps.

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Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2010, 05:44:47 PM »
In a survival context, everyone should own a .22lr rifle.  May as well check that box first.

.223 isn't really big enough, and many places is not legal, to take deer with.  It's also overkill for rabbits, squirrels and the like.  Some feel .223 is ideal for coyotes though.

A visually low profile rifle is probably more important in a hunting/sporting context as others have said.

Offline excaliber

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2010, 08:35:26 PM »
I own a Magnum research 22 MAGNUM, awesome gun for both hunting and self defense, based on the 10-22 design.

I spent the extra $100.00 on a 25 round Valquorsen magazine, one of the few 25 round mags to work flawlessly, it is machined aluminum.




Offline soupbone

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2010, 10:14:46 PM »
Wow, Excaliber, that is a nice looking rifle! Out of curiosity, what does it weigh, and what kind of accuracy do you get from .22 magnum? Is it a straight blow-back or is it a locked breech, and is there a commonality of parts (trigger mechanism, firing pin, misc. bits and pieces) with the factory 10/22? I understand the .22 mag is a wicked defense cartridge, and I would hate to walk into one, or a short (semi-auto) burst.

From a prep standpoint, the .22 mag has a lot going for it: it is effective for larger animals - ferral dogs, etc., as well as for defense against people. Being a rimfire, it is relatively inexpensive and less likely to be regulated (in the future) than "military" caliber or handgun specific ammo. Have you thought about parring it with a handgun? A shorter barrel Single Six Convertable would make a nice companion piece. Granted, a single action might not be the best defensive sidearm, but it beats a rifle in the truck and the convertable feature should not be overlooked (.22 lr cylinder) for low cost plinking or small game (rabbit / squirrel) hunting.

soup
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Offline BulkAmmo.com

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2010, 01:13:35 AM »
For your first rifle it will be infinity cheaper for you to learn proper marksmanship with a .22 LR vs a 5.56/.223 AR.  I get the thought process of getting a conversion kit for your AR and having 2 rifles in one.  I just think that you can get more out of a 10/22 at first.  The bonus is that you have a great platform for converting into whatever creation you can come up with. 

If you really want a bull barrel go ahead and get one.  I don't think it is necessity but in general it's best to get what you really want vs that way you don't have buyers remorse.  Keep in mind that if you are planning on hunting with a bull barrel they are much heavier than a standard barrel.  For hunting purposes the bull barrel isn't much of an upgrade. 

If you can find a used one that is still in good shape.  Then get a bunch of ammo and practice.  While your getting better at rifle marksmanship you can save for a really nice AR.

Offline TANK

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2010, 09:45:48 AM »
I would get the 10/22 first, shoot it for awhile,then go to something larger. One rifle you might want to look at if money is a problem, is the Ruger mini-14 ranch rifle in 223 or the mini-30 in 7.62x39 I have a AR-15,Mini 14 in 223 and a mini 30 in 7.62x39 some people have had problems with accracy with these I have not. Besides a Ruger mini-14 ranch rifle isn't a bad black rifle either.

Offline ZenGunFighter

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2010, 09:47:53 AM »
I got my first 10/22 for my 13th birthday in the early '70s. I'm on my 3rd right now. I get tired of them and trade them in, then after a while decide to give them a 2nd and now, 3rd chance.

I think it is over rated. the rotary magazine makes the receiver FAT. It's not the quick, slick, fast handing gun that a .22 rifle should be. Like the .22 pumps are, the Marlin 60 series is a better handler. My favorite is the Marlin Papoose.

I currently have both a 10/22 and an AR. The Ruger hasn't been out of the safe in years, I much rather grab the AR and toss in the conversion kit.
It's much more fun to shoot, and I'm getting trigger time in on my fighting rifle.
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Offline excaliber

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2010, 03:08:32 PM »
Wow, Excaliber, that is a nice looking rifle! Out of curiosity, what does it weigh, and what kind of accuracy do you get from .22 magnum? Is it a straight blow-back or is it a locked breech, and is there a commonality of parts (trigger mechanism, firing pin, misc. bits and pieces) with the factory 10/22? I understand the .22 mag is a wicked defense cartridge, and I would hate to walk into one, or a short (semi-auto) burst.

From a prep standpoint, the .22 mag has a lot going for it: it is effective for larger animals - ferral dogs, etc., as well as for defense against people. Being a rimfire, it is relatively inexpensive and less likely to be regulated (in the future) than "military" caliber or handgun specific ammo. Have you thought about parring it with a handgun? A shorter barrel Single Six Convertable would make a nice companion piece. Granted, a single action might not be the best defensive sidearm, but it beats a rifle in the truck and the convertable feature should not be overlooked (.22 lr cylinder) for low cost plinking or small game (rabbit / squirrel) hunting.

soup

The gun is a tack driver, I would say a little over .5 moa,

I agree it would make an excelent defensive/survival gun, thats why I got it, you can carry a butt load of rounds with you easily, and still take a small or medium sized animal.

   it is a straight blow back design, with "vent Holes" to bleed off some pressure.
there are several parts available to upgrade or interchange from Valquorsen and ruger.

it is truly a well made gun. do some reseach on it and see.  check out rimfirecentral.com or other gun boards for good info.

I found a couple of test where guys were shooting a thawed chicken at 300 yards with 3 layers of cloth over it and still penitrating 6 inches into the bird.

Offline reefmarker

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2010, 09:07:41 PM »
My $0.02.

I'd go with the 10/22 first because it is 1) fun to shoot, 2) shoot alot for only a few dollars, 3) has millions of cheap add ons if you want them, 4) anyone can fix about anything that goes wrong with it.

If money was an issue after the 10/22 I'd go buy a Mosin Nagant.  You can pick one up for $80 to $100 if you look around some.  They are accurate into the 100's of yards range, and they shoot a round pretty equivalent to a 30-06.  The ammo is also cheap compared to most other guns, 440 rounds for about $100.  Plus with a Mosin no one will think you are a crazy survivalist : )  you are an educated highly sophisticated collector of fine antique arms.

The old joke goes hit a dime at 100 yrds with an AR-15, hit a barn at 100 yrds with an AK47, knock the down everything with the muzzle blast from the Mosin.


Offline Dan

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2010, 02:07:25 AM »
I recommend starting with a standard 10/22 and spend the extra cash on a couple extra magazines a bunch of ammo. Shoot the heck out of it. After a while put a GI sling and some tech sites on it and attend a Appleseed shoot. Practice, practice, practice then practice some more. Get proficient with it then decide where you want to go from there. You may decide you would rather have a bolt action capable of long range accuracy instead of an AR. The 10/22 is a fantastic gun to do this with as it is very inexpensive to buy, shoot and if the time comes, modify. You could do the same with an AR but the buy in is higher and you are going to spend much more on ammo if you shoot enough to become proficient.

I received my first 10/22 when I was 13, 23 years and many thousands of rounds later I still have it. I earned my rifleman patch with that same rifle in fact. With all the other rifles I have to choose from, including an AR, I still love shooting the 10/22.

Keep in mind that if you are planning on hunting with a bull barrel they are much heavier than a standard barrel.
In general or in reference to the factory bull barrel that is true but as with most things there is an exception to that statement. In this case it is the Tactical Solutions bull barrel. I recently added one to my 10/22 specifically because it is lighter than even the standard 10/22 barrel.
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Offline Eichenlaub

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2010, 03:36:34 AM »
I made the mistake of getting the 10/22 after getting an ar 15.
don't make that mistake.
learn to shoot the 22 then get the ar or something else.

Offline quiet-man

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2010, 12:13:55 AM »
OK, you're right about starting small and working your way up. I started all my kids on a single -shot , bolt 22 w/open sights. I worked them up to everything else progressively. As I said, I'm in Calif., I don't have the luxury of shopping for "assault-rifles" any more. I based my decision on get it while you can because I don't trust our gov't regarding new bans again. BTW, how many of you ex-military saw anything besides the M-16 in basic?

Offline CaptainRW

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2010, 03:14:35 PM »
The 10/22 is a sweet gun, no doubt at all and even if I wanted to I couldn't speak bad of it. That said, would this be a BO gun or a bug in? What's your budget like? Could you easily buy both, in time. If not, I'd get the AR with a 22RF conversion now/1st. If your bugging-out, it's alot lighter to carry then 2 full long arms and surely less expensive. Add to that training and practicing on one gun is easier then 2.
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Offline Perfesser

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2010, 03:25:21 PM »
I was going to get an SR 22 before Christmas. Unfortunately my local guy was sold out so I'm going to wait.
I have a few .22's now but they're hard for my daughter to shoot - too long.
The SR (10/22 action in an AR platform) with the adjustable stock should be the ticket and we can both use the same gun.
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Offline Skidmark

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2012, 07:17:46 PM »
(snip)You never know when the Gov't will try to ban evil again, so buy the AR first. Then save up again and get the 10/22. Shoot the AR awhile and get comfortable before you think about mounting stuff on it or "tricking it out". But that's just my positive pessimist thoughts.

Prophetic!    And very good advice. 

Get a .22lr conversion for training and small game.  Pick an AR with a 1:7 twist rate so it can shoot heavies.  Buy or load the 70-77gr projectiles. The barnes 70gr tsx bullets easily take 300+ pound hogs (from personal expirience) so deer are no big deal.  For low visibility, just break it in half and store the upper and lower in your backpack...  but when you need security, there is nothing like an "evil black rifle" to act as deterent!

Save the money that would be spent on a 22lr and get a Geissele 2 stage trigger, 45 deg offset iron sights, and a good 1-4 or 1-6 optic.

I am reading the rest to see if he took your sage advice.

There are still some deals if you shop Gunbroker and can emotionally detach yourself from the auction process.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 07:29:03 PM by Skidmark »

Offline Skidmark

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2013, 09:59:02 AM »
I forgot to mention that there are dedicated uppers that are more accurate than just the conversion bolt carriers.  This, as previously mentioned, gives trigger time on your defense/hunting gun.

With the advances in 223 projectiles it becomes a viable survival weapon.  The 22lr conversions allow for massive amounts of live fire trigger time.

The AR platforms offer incredible versatility in caliber, configuration, parts availability, user serviceability, and reliability.

Do it, do it now.

http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/uppers-22lr-uppers-c-147_218.html

http://www.cmmginc.com/category_s/1823.htm



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Offline Rangeboss

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2013, 03:28:51 PM »
I have 8 Ruger 10/22's and 2 AR's in my youth shooting sports programs. The least used 10/22 has over 10,000 rounds through it. The AR's only 2000-2500 each. It comes down to money. As long as the 10/22 will serve your purpose, get it first because you can shoot a whole lot more for the same money. The 10/22's are a work horse. The only modification I would do right away is an extended bolt release and an extended magazine release. For having sold over 5,000,000 10/22's, I am surprised Ruger hasn't added them as standard equipment.

If I had to buy the AR's again, I would get a Mini-14 or Mini-30 instead of the AR platform.
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Offline endurance

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2013, 04:07:00 PM »
I love my 10/22s.  I had one stolen in 1997 that I'd owned since 1985.  In 2007 a Wyoming sheriff's office called me after recovering it and shipped it back to me.  It was beat up and ugly as hell, apparently it had spent that decade riding around behind the seat of a pickup truck, bouncing around unprotected and rode on many a washboarded dirt roads.  15 minutes of disassembly, a good cleaning and reassembly and it was back to 100% reliability.  It's definitely the ugliest gun I own, but it's just as reliable as my newest gun.
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Offline Wildthang

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2013, 03:54:14 PM »
No offense to the 10/22 guys, but I think the stock 10/22 trigger feels like it is made from unfinished cast iron, and doesn't do much for the potential accuracy of the rifle. And as far as accuracy, almost any bolt action will outshoot them unless you get a custom barrel.
It is my opinion that buying a stock 10/22 is just the starting cost, and then you need a trigger group and a new barrel to really get a tack driver.
I have a Marlin 60 and a 10/22, and the 60 shoots circles around the 10/22.

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: AR-15 or 10/22 Ruger
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2013, 04:18:11 PM »
I will concede the stock triggers are nothing impressive, but the stock barrels are great.  You can polish the sears and hammers.  It costs nothing and helps a noticeable amount.

There's so much urban myth how .920 bull barrels increase accuracy.  That could be true in some cases, but only for bench rest folks.
In practice the stock barrel is more durable - making it superior for actual field use.

My brother has a pimped out 10/22, with Kidd trigger, heavy barrel, bipod and an over powered scope for the cartridge.   I think he has over $700 in it.
From the bench I have shot 3 rounds of Federal Champion through the same hole at 150 yards, but the thing weighs 4lbs. heavier than a stock model from the sporting good aisle.  Shooting off hand between that and my Liberty Training 10/22, there's no difference in accuracy.

If you have the means, precision 10/22 builds are a lot of fun.  But the prepper in me thinks they are a waste of time, especially if you don't have a .22lr setup for field use.

Just my $0.02