Author Topic: Dont depend on hunting !  (Read 23043 times)

Chance72

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Dont depend on hunting !
« on: January 20, 2009, 08:35:05 PM »
 Food for thought . Dont depend on hunting at all for your source of food ! One of the best reasons I can give for that is, if and when something takes place everyone else will be trying to do the same . Its good to be prepaired too take food from the wild ( which I do all the time ) but just dont think you can by any means survive on that . Fishing may be alittle better but just think if everyone in your city started fishing out of the same lake for a month . What do you think would happen ?
 To me gardening is a better option to depend on along with foods you have stored. Wild game is not as easy as you may think to take. I really dont know how many of you guys hunt or dont hunt out there . For the ones that do think of this . There is only so much game in the woods . You guys also know as well as me what happens when deer, hogs , and other game start to get alot of pressure put on them . Either they split or only come out late night to early morning .
 For the ones who have not been around alot of hunting in thier lives . First get out there and start having fun now to learn a few skills . Next, think of a few things . If and when you kill something , what are you going to do with it next . Have you ever killed a large animal such as a deer or hog . They sure are messy ! Remember , the bigger the animal the bigger the mess and guts pile . Small game are alot easier but takes alot to fill up empty stomachs . When you have killed and cleaned your game what you going to do next. If its small game thats easy , just throw it on the fire but if its deer size or bigger then how do we cook what we need and store the rest . Do you know how to make jerky or other means to preserve meat ?
 Last is unless you are bow hunting , when that gun goes off everyone around is going to have a good idea of where you are at . This is not a good thing when there will be alot of hungry people trying to survive just like you , with a familiy just like you who may go to the extrem to provide for his or herself or familiy .

Offline DeltaEchoVictor

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2009, 04:20:15 AM »
First, welcome to the boards Chance.

I think if you take a look around, you'll find most of us store the bulk of our food.  Even those of us who are & have been lifelong hunters, like myself.  We talk about hunting as a good skill to have to supplement our food stores.  I don't believe anybody here expects to be able to hunt all their food, the competition for food will be fierce...at least until the unprepared die off.  Not to mention, like you pointed out, hunting resources will probably be decimated because of the shear numbers of people who have not prepared for a SHTF scenario.

I think you're spot on with your gardening comment.  Long term it only makes sense & many of us here garden.  There are lots of other folks who are here that are learning so if you have words of wisdom get to our gardening forum & post away!

Glad to have you aboard. 

Offline Heavy G

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2009, 06:42:33 AM »
Chance:

Welcome to the boards.  I've learned a lot here.  Nice people too.

I have stored food that my family could live on for a while.  I view game meat as a supplement.  For example, I have pasta and gravy mix.  That would do, but I would hope to have some meat in there too. (And since I live near rural areas near the ocean and bays, I look to shellfish and salmon.  But most people don't have that option.)

But you're right about not putting your eggs in one basket.  But people on this forum are much better off than the masses who put all their eggs in the grocery store basket!

P.S.  Don't forget bartering.  Maybe that deer meat could be traded for some pasta and gravy mix.

kaiservontexas

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2009, 10:20:41 PM »
I would not rely upon hunting. Hunting is a supplement. Hunter gathering would not be a good way to live in Texas, that much I am sure. Early Spanish observations of natives were that many suffered from famine. They never marked the reasons for this but I will assume prolong drought condition coupled with over hunting. I am also referring to the West and Central regions of Texas, but Central Texas is where I wish to re-locate in the future.

In anycase I am sure the same problems hunter gathers had in antiquity would be the same issues we would come across if we tried it. It is better to engage in agriculture and ranching then trying to live any other way in the long term. Food stores only last for x amount of time. Production is key to living life even if the world does not fall apart.

Offline PaCoTx

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2009, 09:32:50 PM »
As a life long hunter, I'd have to agree with your topic.  Hunting will produce meat, but at a great expense of time and energy.  I remember my best hunting trip in college, when I went out for "survival" meat and had a deer out of the woods on the first day in time to make my class.  That can't happen every time that I'd need to put food on the table for a family.

Trapping is a viable alternative in a survival situation, along with gardening and/or harvesting native plants.  Trapping provides meat, and doesn't require you and your prey to be in the same location at the same time.  Not many people can shoot and then retrieve a muskrat or nutria, but a trapper can harvest them almost at will and provide food that would be overlooked by most people, including hunters.

Knowledge of native, edible plants can help sustain you when your crops aren't in, or you don't have access to stored foods.  (I realize that a lot of what I learned about edible plants growing up must be relearned now that I live in a different area of the US.) 

Offline ColdHaven

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2009, 10:37:10 PM »
I think this is a very important topic. I wonder what the cost effectiveness (time wise) of making a garden as opposed to hunting and harvesting meat. Maybe we should save those bullets to keep more than rabbits and deer out of the garden. I think most people think that they can pick up any weapon and use it effectively, and this goes for would-be hunters during a SHTF scenario. When they start to starve because they can't cultivate meat it might get kind of vicious. Keeping people out of your food might become a priority over putting deer on the table. And besides, if we attract animals to parts of our land then the meat would be coming us instead of us going to find it. There is a really good episode of Jacks which explains this in far greater detail. Might be worth a look to those who haven't heard it.

johnnybgood30

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2009, 12:22:23 AM »
so have u guys with ground ever tought about buying cows?here we have more cows then people u can buy calfs cheep right now and just let them eat the grass on your land

Offline 19kilo

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2009, 03:13:59 AM »
so have u guys with ground ever tought about buying cows?here we have more cows then people u can buy calfs cheep right now and just let them eat the grass on your land


Would love to.  They would starve on my .12 acres.  Not in a position to move yet. 

Offline Ultio1

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2009, 12:07:17 PM »
Wild game in a post SHTF scenario would be considered targets of opportunity but in a serious national or global crisis where everyone is hard up and hungry I dont plan on seeing much game for very long. I think most folks here have or are putting a long term solution for the food issue. First build up some reserves. Start looking at ways to produce food. Sprouting, Gardening, growing mushrooms are a few good ideas to look into. Whatever you decide you have to do it now. I dont mean its that urgent, I mean if you arent good at it before you need it you likely wont get enough food when you do. I like to give myself several chances to blow it completely and try again without consequence. I have some sprouting seeds sealed in mason jars so I grow sprouts every so often. Practice is critical in this area imo.

Offline ModernSurvival

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2009, 03:13:39 PM »
Some "game" that will be around a long time, if you can bring yourself to eat it.

Blackbirds/Grackles
Rats (cotton, wood, Norwegian, otherwise)
Insects of various variety
Etc.

On one level I am sort of joking on another though it is good to know what you CAN eat if you HAVE to,  ;)

Offline Sid

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2009, 03:51:03 PM »
In a large scale, long term SHTF event, I agree that hunting will not provide anywhere near enough.

When the USSR broke apart back in the 1990's and their economy collapsed, some people started to hunt a reindeer type animal that was not normally hunted, and the population was wiped out during the first year.  I once took the Missouri Conservation Department's estimate of the total number of deer in the state, multiplied by the average amount of meat on one deer, and divided by the people population.  There was no way that would get people through even a part of a year.

Plus a lot of hunting is done on private land with the permission of the land owner.  You can bet that permission would be quickly withdrawn when the landowner needed what there was to hunt for himself and his own family.  This would leave only public land, and that would become very crowded.  I think it would be dangerous for people in cities to come out to the countryside unless they had a place of their own.  People in the countryside are not likely to look kindly on people trespassing on their property, and virtually all the land out here is owned by someone except for a relatively small amount of government land.

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2009, 06:26:45 PM »
Agreed -

A few years ago, I noticed something odd in a "refuge" cloud forest (rainforest at 6000 ft) in Ecuador-

nothing was moving- lush tropical cover but no animals to be seen or heard other than an occasional bird and some frogs. 
I asked about it and the local guide basically said "the people are hungry here". 

FreeFire

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2009, 09:52:14 PM »
I agree about the large game running out rather quickly in a SHTF situation.

But, let's keep in mind, many people lack the woodsmanship and accuracy to squirrel hunt with positive outcomes. I live in east texas, in an area with a great deal of deer and wildlife, but during the depression, deer hunting with dogs cleaned out the deer pretty quickly, so much so that it wasn't until the 60's that they started to come back around with any regularity, but still not too much until the 70's and 80's which also coincided with the outlawing of hunting with dogs.


Offline rustyknife

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2009, 10:28:01 PM »
First: Welcome, lots of good people and info here.....Second: Hunting and fishing are only tools you would keep in your survival tool bag to keep yourself and your family going, it's not the final solution. Gardening is just as important. I've read lots of books about the mountain men and trappers that traveled this great country and one thing that always struck me was their talk about sending out hunters and them coming back empty handed. Keep lots of tools in your tool bag and you'll do fine.

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2009, 11:55:22 AM »
Hunting/fishing will help with smaller scale emergencies. Like the job loss thing, Small game hunting and such. I don't know if I'm too worried about the people around me hunting. Within the frame work of the survival community there is a larger portion of outdoors people out there. I moved from the west to the east and hunting is going down severally in and around where I live and a lot of the hunters near me are more they I hired a guy to track the animal, I shot the animal and then went back to camp to eat a cooked for me meal while I sat on my ass and someone else did the field dress and the butcher. This is not the people on this site but this is where hunting has gone. The people around me even the hunters don't go much past sight line of the truck and generally stay in hotels when they are hunting. Even crown land that allows you to camp for a pretty much the full season without moving your camp.
Most of the city idiots are not even going to see a deer let alone shoot one even the so called hunters swelling the ranks that need ATV's to get to the Deer. I mean need as in walk half a mile and they are dead and complaining about walking. 

Now that being said gardening and gathering represent a larger contribution to calories versus output to get it for many hunter gathers/ horticulturist society . There is a reason why we developed farming in the first place it's a more certain food supply.             

Offline Heavy G

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2009, 12:28:01 PM »
I agree with the general point that if SHTF the number of hunters will go way up and game will dry up.

But I think that impact will be regional.  In areas where people still know how to hunt and have hunting rifles/shotguns, then I bet this will be true.

But in grasshopper areas like where I live NO ONE knows how to hunt, at least in the suburbs.  And if SHTF, gas would probably be scarce so we would not just cruise out to the sticks to get meat.  Those living in the sticks would probably hunt and over hunt.  But you can't turn a grasshopper into a hunter overnight.

Then again, I think the point of the thread is that even if those in sticks are overhunting, that's enough overhunting to mean no meat later.  That I agree with.  I just don't think every Tom, Dick and Harry will be hunting.  Too many left-wing grasshoppers in my town watched Bambi and, when they find out I hunt, say things like "I could never hurt an innocent animal."  To which I say, "Me neither ... unless I'm really hungry.  So I practice on non-innocent animals like coyotes."

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2009, 12:10:09 PM »
I agree hunting should not be the main plan.  It should be a back up plan.  It should never to an either or situation.  It should be an all of the above.


Offline Kwitzats

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2009, 11:43:42 PM »
Jack forgot snakes you can eat any kind.

Offline shangrily

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2009, 09:53:09 PM »
all the unprepared masses (the few who even know how to shoot a gun) will probly not often get a kill shot and if they do they wont know how to find it using a blood trail. we may end up with a bunch of wounded animals with a bullet in there ass.

Winchester32

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2009, 12:04:41 AM »
all the unprepared masses (the few who even know how to shoot a gun) will probly not often get a kill shot and if they do they wont know how to find it using a blood trail. we may end up with a bunch of wounded animals with a bullet in there ass.


Bingo!!  Even if they did manage to get one down.....and find it, they likely would not know what to do from there. 

Offline Kwitzats

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2009, 12:39:55 AM »
I think peoples capacity for survival is often underestimated in these forums culture aside we are all animals and carry a good amount of instinct.

Offline DeltaEchoVictor

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2009, 06:41:35 AM »
I think peoples capacity for survival is often underestimated in these forums culture aside we are all animals and carry a good amount of instinct.
I think what's underestimated here (in the US) are the lengths people will go to to survive.  That's because even our poor have it good compared to the poor in 3rd world countries.

I live two blocks from the hood.  I'd say over half of the cars sitting in front of the government funded housing are at least as nice as my 12 yr. old Jeep.  A few are nicer, & a smaller percentage are not as nice.  Point is, the "poor" folks who need help paying for their housing all have cars, are probably getting tax payer subsidized groceries & aren't anywhere close to being in the shape of 3rd world poor folks.

If something happens where those folks don't get their subsidies then my concern turns to which instincts a select group of those folks follow, not whether their instincts kick in at all.

I don't think we can discount culture, how we're raised determines...to some extent...how we respond to what occurs.  Are people who have been given the means to survive the majority of their lives going to be content to sit around and wait for someone to rescue them?  I don't know & I hope I don't ever have to find out.  I think I'll keep planning & prepping to just to be safe.


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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2009, 08:45:16 AM »
Delta:
To answer your question about what your near-by neighbors will do in a SHTF scenario, I think that all you have to do is remember what happened immediately following Katrina. Looting and stealing was the standard fare. I really don't think that a future SHTF event will result in things being different. Those with out will seek out those with and will try to take anything they want.
Hope you have a remote BOL and will be long gone before that occurs.
Thomas

Winchester32

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2009, 08:50:50 AM »
I think peoples capacity for survival is often underestimated in these forums culture aside we are all animals and carry a good amount of instinct.

When you have a capacity for survival without a capacity for morality, it is an ugly mix.  I have no doubt the hordes will being relying on some sort of instinct, but it won't be to forage for food in the woods, or eat an animal caught with a homemade snare or to suddenly try their hand and gardening or fishing.  They will become predators and anything in their line of vision will be prey. 

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2009, 09:07:02 AM »
They will become predators and anything in their line of vision will be prey. 
Count on it.

Offline DeltaEchoVictor

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2009, 09:29:07 AM »
Delta:
To answer your question about what your near-by neighbors will do in a SHTF scenario, I think that all you have to do is remember what happened immediately following Katrina. Looting and stealing was the standard fare. I really don't think that a future SHTF event will result in things being different. Those with out will seek out those with and will try to take anything they want.
Hope you have a remote BOL and will be long gone before that occurs.
Thomas
Agreed, & I've already experienced those without, seeking to take from those with.  In fact, I experience it on a weekly basis.  I was trying to remain as hypothetical as possible so as to not sound too doom and gloomish.  My town has a population of around 14,000 (last I checked) & the lower socioeconomic areas aren't as concentrated as those in the cities, so the scope & intensity won't be quite as bad, but the places that do get bad....will be bad.  I'm right on the edge of one of those places.

The thing that works in my favor (hopefully), is that the bulk (pun intended) will be just plain too lazy to take any initiative towards securing their own future, i.e. stealing from others.  They'll be content to sit on their large backsides & wait for someone to come take responsibility for them.  Those that will take intiative...already have & will continue to do so, no matter what.  These are the folks that we'll have to watch for.  I've already met a few. ;)

Where I live has given me plenty of interaction in the last 4 years with the dregs of society to give me a very good idea of what will occur should something long term occur.  Planning & prepping....planning & prepping....it continues. ;)






Offline Tennessee Mountaineer

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2009, 09:41:48 AM »
 It seems to me  that you shouldn't rely on anyone thing to provide, The wider variety of resources you have in your bag o tricks your chances of survival go up.
 
  Ever think of trying trapping? Far more effective. a real asset multiplier. A few bucks invested in snares and leg hold traps can go a long way. The trick is to have traps in numbers, know your prey, and check them regularly.

Also in worse case scenario the techniques you can use to hunt are different. If you try to hunt according to most Fish and Game regs you will starve for sure, But if you can use bait, jack lighting, night hunting, driving, dogs and other illegal techniques oyu can improve your chances of putting meat on th table> You'd have a wider selection of game to take as well with no hunting or bag limits either.

 The issue with solo hunting is that it is labor intensive. Hunting in groups does help hunting and this applies to foraging too. Foraging with a group is more effective.
The lone hunter providing all the food for his family is not the best strategy for a group but hunting to supply your own needs can be effective if your forage and gather at the same time. Humans were hunter gatherers for a long time so it must be an effective survival strategy.

It's the how,what,when,where of hunting that determines your effectiveness. For instance you can hunt while your checking your trap line then forage and gather on the way home to work your garden and tend your animals.Works for me anyway.  That's my 2 cent. be of good cheer!

Offline phuttan

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2009, 02:58:40 PM »
When I read the words, survival hunter, I remember working my uncle's farms. When we went out to check the cattle, fence lines or anything else we always took a .22 for groundhogs. We sometimes shot rabbits or squirrels. That's how I think of survival hunting. I wouldn't sit in a treestand all day. I would go out working and maintaining the land. And I would always have a gun matched to the game in season. I say in season because you don't want to draw attention to yourself if you can avoid it. If you have a woodlot, harvest it in a way that naturally attracts wildlife. Thin your woodlot, then plant autumn olives or other food shrubs for wildlife. Leave oaks and other crop trees standing. You can even mulch and feed them so they produce better crops of acorns. In the winter drop some evergreens so the deer, etc can feed on them. Thin along your property lines and plant thorn apples or similiar trees and shrubs. They provide a thorny barrier and food for wildlife. Animals will find ways through but getting pricked by thorns will discourage people. Improving your land doesn't only apply to fields and gardens. To a survivor, it also applies to woodlots. Groom your woodlots to increase potentials harvests of edible plants and wildlife. Groom them in a way that discourages people from crossing your property lines. There are many uses for select thinning and planting. If you provide wildlife with their needs for food, water, shelter, and discourage access to other people you should have deer, etc on your land for longer than most people. YMMV.

Pat

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2009, 05:19:17 AM »
How about keeping rabbits?  I hear they're pretty simple to breed and maintain, and a heck of a lot quieter than chickens!

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Offline phuttan

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2009, 05:25:12 PM »
Rabbits are good. If properly managed, they can produce surprisingly large amount of meat. They are pretty easy to care for and poop out good fertiliser.

In times when desperate people hunt out areas, they will probably also be willing to raid gardens and livestock pens. So, a remote piece of land that is difficult to find and managed in a way that discourages unwanted visitors will always be ideal.