Author Topic: Dont depend on hunting !  (Read 23114 times)

Offline pug-shadow

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2009, 05:54:36 PM »
Kind of interesting story.

A group from my church was doing some missions trips in northern India, which is a huge forest area.

One thing that struck them is that there are absolutly no animals or birds or anything in the forest.
It was all cleared out by the locals.

Im am sure in a large food shortage situation the same thing would happen everywhere.

Hopefully after I learn some stuff about permaculture that might be a good thing for those guys to take back there..  at least its renewable

just a comment...

Offline phuttan

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2009, 07:04:19 PM »
Pug Shadow - I understand what your saying. But, hungry people can clean out an orchard or garden as fast as a forest. I read an article, decades ago, by a man that lived in a poor area during a famine. The building he was in had fruit trees in front. They had to guard the trees and chase hungry locals away. When the fruit ripened, they did share it with the locals. He said that the most difficult thing he ever did was protecting those trees. Hungry people will do anything they can to get food around the clock. If it looks like food, they wipe it out even before it ripens.

Pat

smkymtn

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2009, 07:41:27 PM »
 First:  When the masses start panicing and leaving in locus swarms from the city they are not going to be thinking about being Davey Crocket, they are going eat and drink everything in sight, you will have a small percentage that will learn/or already know what they need to do before they take each other down.

Second: Revaluate your BOL if that many people are going to be taking everything in sight! Guess what after the game is gone your NEXT!

Third: If you pick a proper BOL you will not have to worry about supplementing with hunting, it won't be a problem. There are areas where people are not going to go through trouble to make it to.

This should be titled "Don't depend on hunting in populated areas".

Vinny T. Firefly

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2009, 01:25:42 AM »
If hunting was the best way to get food we would have never developed farming! I've never been hunting and although I would like to I would never plan on that, or fishing, on being my primary source. When I was a kid I used to fantasize about living in the woods and living off the land. Now that I'm older and a little wiser I know better. It's a good skill to have, an even better one to hone but, to rely on that as your sole sustenance when the world turns upside down will test more than just your skills... it will test your very soul. Think about it.

Offline phuttan

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2009, 02:24:58 PM »
Remember that Indians, etc used a combination of agriculture, foraging for plants, fishing, hunting, trapping and anything else they could think of. Crops can fail. Hunting can fail. Fishing can fail. Food storage can fail. Diversity is the best plan for survival.

Jack has talked about fences, gates and signs keeping most people out. Thorny thickets and geography can also help.

Plants gardens and orchards. Keep livestock. Nurture or plant native trees and plants that produce food mass for people/livestock/wildlife. Hunt, fish, trap. Learn primitive foraging/hunting/trapping/fishing methods.

Have wells/creeks/ponds/rain harvest for water.

The rule of threes applies to everything. Multiple, redundant, independent methods help you get past a system failure. Don't depend one single system for anything. And don't forget to have fun with it.

Pat

bernardclare

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2010, 10:30:36 AM »
Suppose a widespread continuing SHTF situation arises. Desperate neophyte hunters, many who've never held a firearm before, are in "your" woods.

What I'm about to suggest is repugnant but something to think about. The hordes are competing with you for food you need to survive. One factor is getting "your" share of the available game. The other is ... darker. If firearms or ammo become currency, something very valuable to barter, and commerce as we know it no longer exists ...

Hunt the hunters. Do what partisans in a desperate fight do. Take anything useful the other has. He has no further need of it.

What goes around comes around. Even if there is no widely recognized government, sooner or later karma will get ya.

But prepare ye. Somebody might be hunting something other than squirrel or deer. They might be hunting YOU.

Offline phuttan

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2010, 12:51:08 AM »
The best self defense is avoidance. That's why I suggests the use of terrain/flora to discourage passage through your property. Most people take the path of least resistance.

As for hunting the hunters, I would try to avoid the need. But you can find Long Pork Cookbooks on the net.

Pat

Offline DeltaEchoVictor

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2010, 07:46:21 PM »
As for hunting the hunters, I would try to avoid the need. But you can find Long Pork Cookbooks on the net.

Pat
**Gently nudges this thread away from this course of discussion**

Offline phuttan

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2010, 09:33:58 PM »
**Gently nudges this thread away from this course of discussion**

Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation. Hee hee

Offline DeltaEchoVictor

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2010, 08:45:32 AM »
Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation. Hee hee
;)

Offline YOOJ

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2010, 10:48:57 PM »
Some "game" that will be around a long time, if you can bring yourself to eat it.

Blackbirds/Grackles
Rats (cotton, wood, Norwegian, otherwise)
Insects of various variety
Etc.

On one level I am sort of joking on another though it is good to know what you CAN eat if you HAVE to,  ;)

I am pretty certain I have eaten rat.  I have eaten at enough street taco stands in Guadalajara, Mexico City and Puerto Escondido to all but ensure that I have ingested mystery meat that was most likely rat.  But, if so, it was f'ing delicious and the best tacos I've ever had.  Well, except maybe for the octopus tacos... those were something to write home about.

But yeah in a true SHTF situation large game is harder to deal with, as it MUST be properly cared for and it will be more difficult to preserve.  But while it may be more work per animal, it will be less continuous round the clock effort if you can come up with a means to preserve it.  One deer preserved in some way (salt, smoke, etc) can be stretched, whereas you may be out every day after a few squirrels or fish.  Some form of trapping (rat?) combined with hunting/fishing and obviously gardening would help to minimize the effort spent for the amount of reward.


Offline Steaker

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2010, 09:34:23 PM »
Anyone raising meat goats or sheep?  Easy?

smkymtn

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2010, 09:25:55 PM »
Anyone raising meat goats or sheep?  Easy?
Goats are require more care than other livestock, they can get sick easy if there is a draft in their house, need interaction so you need a few. They are great with kids and are higher in protien than beef. They just need more care.

smkymtn

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2010, 09:30:53 PM »
Rabbits are good. If properly managed, they can produce surprisingly large amount of meat. They are pretty easy to care for and poop out good fertiliser.

In times when desperate people hunt out areas, they will probably also be willing to raid gardens and livestock pens. So, a remote piece of land that is difficult to find and managed in a way that discourages unwanted visitors will always be ideal.
But rabbits have to be eaten lightly because of the low protien. You can starve by eating nothing but rabbit. Research what happened to trappers in the 1800's by living off of rabbit.

Offline Heavy G

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #44 on: March 07, 2010, 10:44:13 AM »

But rabbits have to be eaten lightly because of the low protien. You can starve by eating nothing but rabbit. Research what happened to trappers in the 1800's by living off of rabbit.


We happen to have a thread on this very subject: http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=995.0

I note that it's from the early days (November 2008).  It has the topic number 995; now we have over 13,000.  Kinda cool.

Offline phuttan

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2010, 12:02:13 AM »
But rabbits have to be eaten lightly because of the low protien. You can starve by eating nothing but rabbit. Research what happened to trappers in the 1800's by living off of rabbit.

It's the low fat content that causes the problem. You can eat rabbit everyday and you'll be fine as long as you have a fat source in your diet. If you don't have an adequate fat intake, you will eventually starve to death no matter how many calories you eat. That's what leads to stories about rabbit sickness/starvation. Eating a diet of nothing but rabbit can lead to death. But if you fry it in fat, you'll be fine.

Pat

Offline Who...me?

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2010, 12:40:02 AM »
Or make rabbit and peanut butter samiches.   ;)

Offline DeltaEchoVictor

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2010, 10:30:44 PM »
Or make rabbit and peanut butter samiches.   ;)
lmao...

sorry, carry on. ;)

Offline JGreene

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2010, 04:54:04 AM »
If we're going down the total SHTF, Mad Max scenario, (highly unlikely IMHO)  there will be a high demand for food for the first year, but then, as those needing various medications to survive, the elderly, and those who just plain freak out, will be gone. 

Nature will make sure that we only achieve a population that the land will support.  If you can make it past the first dreadful period (guessing at a year?)  then the population and the available game/farm land will stabilize. 

We just have to make sure we can make it through that first period, during that time, preparing (it will never stop) to prosper after.

Offline Recycler4570

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2010, 10:35:38 AM »
I literally have elk, bison and mule deer wandering through my yard almost daily, but I doubt I could find any of them is I really needed food!
Also, because Teton Nat. park is only a couple hundred yards away there are a lot of protected coyotes who keep the rabbit population down to a minimum.
In a serious SHTF it may become "tourist season" ;)


I haven't put it to the test but have been told that "rabbit starvation" can be prevented by eating the brains and marrow of the rabbits as that has at least a little fat.

Soularcher

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2010, 10:54:25 PM »
I am a lifelong hunter, mostly archery.  I would use hunting as much as possible to feed my family.  My wife and I garden a lot too.  BUT, my question is, how do you protect your garden from thievery in a SHTF scenario?  Especially since you would need to guard it all night long, in the event that hungry people would try to steal the food.  I am thinking that, once food gets scarce enough, people will do anything to eat, like steal your veggies while you sleep...

Offline Heavy G

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #51 on: April 10, 2010, 07:06:09 AM »

my question is, how do you protect your garden from thievery in a SHTF scenario? 


An important question.  We have threads on the general topic of protecting your place.  I can point you to them if you'd like.  I don't want this thread, though, to veer off into that direction.  But it was a good point to bring up.

Offline Komodo

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #52 on: April 10, 2010, 12:33:42 PM »
I've never hunted anything myself, and it concerns me that I don't have this skill.  I read how so many of you are excellent hunters and could easily provide food for yourself, and I always wonder how many years you've been practicing to get that good.  I've recently started learning to shoot.  At this point, I believe I could hit a bad guy (big target) and end the discussion, but I'm not near good enough to hit something small and moving like an animal or bird. I agree with the original post, that I'm not going to rely on hunting as a food source.  Even if I got lucky and hit a large animal, I wouldn't know how to make the most efficient use of it.  I think I have a better chance of gaining protein through fishing or perhaps using snares.  A little down the road, I hope to raise some chickens to add to my options.

Offline Guinness5

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #53 on: August 16, 2010, 11:36:24 AM »
I was once told by an old man that when he was a boy during the depression, you couldn't find a squirrel around anywhere. They sure have come back since then, but that tells you a little about how that food source was pretty well used up in a time of economic trouble. Imagine if there was a free for all on game. We could be looking at the same result for many species.

Offline phuttan

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2010, 07:23:23 PM »
I am a lifelong hunter, mostly archery.  I would use hunting as much as possible to feed my family.  My wife and I garden a lot too.  BUT, my question is, how do you protect your garden from thievery in a SHTF scenario?  Especially since you would need to guard it all night long, in the event that hungry people would try to steal the food.  I am thinking that, once food gets scarce enough, people will do anything to eat, like steal your veggies while you sleep...

For protecting the garden, the best I can recommend is to put where it won't readily be seen or whrere terrain/vegetation detures people. Do a web search for guerilla gardening. It should give you ideas for plants that aren't obviously food and spead your garden out so it isn't as noticible.  One idea is to plants potatoes along tree line and don't weed them much. People might not even know that they are there. Hide/obstuct/disperse it.


I was once told by an old man that when he was a boy during the depression, you couldn't find a squirrel around anywhere. They sure have come back since then, but that tells you a little about how that food source was pretty well used up in a time of economic trouble. Imagine if there was a free for all on game. We could be looking at the same result for many species.

During the depression they hunted thing we don't eat. Ground hogs, opossums, etc have been eaten by my grandfather and others I knew when I was a kid. I think trappers did better than hunters both because of their traps and targets of opportunity. Also people didn't talk about there secret spots. If they found an area with game, they did their best to keep it hidden.

Pat

Offline BatonRouge Bill

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2010, 08:35:08 PM »
I have to agree with Phuttan post reply# 34. All survival methods should be employed, hunting, gathering trapping, fishing, farming/animal husbandry and storing/preserving. Hunting should be for both migratory game when in season, and large and small game local game while trying to conserve a large portion of local game for the future. Wild Rabbits do not have much fat but not true with tame rabbits. A young 7-8 week old rabbit where most are harvested are still growing and haven't much fat stores older tame rabbits will build up some butter fat. Nutria, and Musk rats after proper removal of musk glands and fat are better eating than wild rabbit. I don't particularly like the carnivores like raccoon, possum, mink or otter, nasty greasy musky critters. Small and large Birds can be excellent seasoning meat with rice. Turtles are another abundant critter that can be pretty good as a stew or over rice. Jugging rivers in the spring, cooning oysters, gigging flounder in the summer...Dang I wish I was a teenager again!
Anyway I have goose decoys, duck decoys, dove decoys, a bass boat, a small shrimp boat, a small frog/catfish jugging boat, a pirouge, shot guns, deer decoys, 3 wheelers, Crab traps, Crab nets, crawfish nets, cast nets, Nutria leg traps, snares, hoop nets, 50 catfish jug lines, 4 dozen yo yo's tight lines, and most importantly is the knowledge to make most and repair all. Also 3 freezers full of Fish/Shrimp, Game and storebought meats. I bought my first car trapping over a winter and shrimping over a summer. Clearly local population will dictate how long over consumption will take to deplete animal poplations. In coastal south Louisiana it may take decades.

Offline sdcharger

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2010, 12:33:28 AM »
Packs of wild dogs will make good eating too.

Offline phuttan

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #57 on: August 17, 2010, 06:14:24 PM »
Now we're getting into the survival mindset. This is why I say that knowledge is so important. If you know how to remove the scent glands, you can harvest a food source that would be disgusting otherwise. If you know recipes for lots of non game animals, you can make them taste good. When others think that all the game is gone, survivors won't argue. They'll be to busy eating the non game. Add knowledge of local edibles and we have salad and veggies to go with our meat. Jack loves the Amaranth plant. Would most people even recognise it as food? We have so many options acrossed the US and the world. Look around your area. Make a mental note of the animals and plants you see. Purchasing identification guides for plants and animals is a big help. Then try to find recipes for everything in the your area. Also remember that  most meat can be mixed with pork trim/fat for sausage. Keep the spices you need for recipes now or start planting them around your yard/gardens. Most people seeing clumps of unknown herbs against your house or fence line will think that they are weeds. Know what resources you have available and how to use them. Diversity is the best survival plan.

Pat

Offline sdcharger

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Re: Dont depend on hunting !
« Reply #58 on: August 18, 2010, 03:11:18 AM »
Stew just about anything with vinegar and soy sauce and you are golden ;)  Goes well with all that rice you have been saving ;D