Author Topic: Divorce question  (Read 5380 times)

Offline ozzy88m

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Divorce question
« on: January 03, 2011, 08:53:16 PM »
I have this girl friend ( friend that is a girl) that I have know for years. The question is she is getting a divorce and has moved out on her own with her four girls, she has started to see this guy about a week ago, we are wondering what the legal aspect would be of her going through a divorce but seeing someone is. She lives in Oklahoma if that helps any. Thanks for any info.

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Divorce question
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2011, 09:23:39 PM »
bad idea.  at least wait until it is final.  I do not have any exact details, but my gut is saying "BAD IDEA.  STAY AWAY"

OldManSchmidt

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Re: Divorce question
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2011, 09:47:13 PM »
The first question my lawyer asked me when my first wife and I got divorced was, "Is there another woman involved?"  I answered no to which he replied, "Tell me now because if there is, her lawyer is going to take you and me to the cleaners."  I again replied no (which was the truth) and he said, "Good!  Keep it that way until this is done."

If the soon to be ex's lawyer is on his game and there is another man in her life, it could play very badly in court for her.  If she likes this guy, advise her to ask him to wait.  If he is worth her time, he will.

Seeing as there are children involved, make sure she understands that her boyfriend won't stay a secret.  She can't hide it from them and they won't hide it from Dad.  Dad will then RUN to his lawyer with that tidbit.  After all, he is facing alimony, spousal support, and child support for 4, count them, 4 children.  If he is any kind of a father at all, he will see to it that the children have what they need without complaint, but the other he will likely seek to reduce or eliminate as much as he can.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2011, 09:52:17 PM by OldManSchmidt »

Offline I.L.W.

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Re: Divorce question
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2011, 11:58:16 PM »
Legally, it makes no difference as long as the relationship wasn't the cause of the divorce, and the burden is on them to prove that.  But that's the legal side, the practical side is more sketchy. It will all come down to the judge, their prejudices and disposition. 

Here's what they'll be looking for:

• Are the children in a stable environment with the mother?  Divorce is unsettling to children, and the introduction of a new relationship may place additional strain on the kids.

• The stability of all people involved will come into play. The other lawyer will do their homework on this guy.  Is he a reputable doctor who gives to charity and behaves as a pillar of the community, or does he bounce between minimum wage jobs and has a list of criminal convictions? His character has no bearing on anything, and many judges won't even allow it to be discussed, but it still slips out and it may reflect the mother's judgement, which is very important if there is a custody dispute.

• Don't lie about it. The opposing lawyers will find out.  If things move fast in the new relationship, it can make the mother appear flaky, as though she had a limited commitment to her original marriage and would rather start over than attempt to resolve issues with her current husband.  That has no legal bearing, but may swing the judges sympathies to the other side of the table.

• A few years back, a relationship between the ex-wife and a new man would have hurt alimony. If the mother held a job, alimony is pretty much off the table these days anyway. Years ago is was almost awarded by default, but not anymore.  It's purpose was to compensate a woman her lost wages or career advancement and educational opportunities she sacrificed while raising the man's children.  Today, unless she's a stay-at-home mom, the decision to raise children at the expense of her earning potential is considered a conscious and deliberate choice on her part. Some women feel they deserve it for "putting up with him", but it's not there to penalize an ex-husband, it there to compensate for obvious financial damages. Judges are afraid to have their rulings questioned, so they dispense alimony sparingly now, and in lesser amounts. I wouldn't expect the relationship to have any impact on that decision. This is true in most states, though some are much more liberal about it. Again, it depends on the judge and the state, so she should have a long talk with her lawyer about it.

The fact is, unless there are large sums of money at stake, or criminal charges running parallel to the divorce from either party, a judge will barely even look at these facts.  Divorce is so routine, the review process is expedited unless the safety of the children is in question or one side is demanding an unusually high amount of compensation. There aren't "People" involved in divorces.  From the judges standpoint, it's just another case number they vaguely remember reading about in the forms filed.  Unless outrageous or otherwise compelling allegations are made, no one will run through such details. 

Where do men fail at divorce?
 They go into it under the assumption that their going to get completely screwed.  They compromise a million little things and put all their energy into the big things like alimony and child support figures.  All those little things add up to a whole lot more than they realize, often much more value than the $30-$50 a month their efforts might have saved them. Your friend can use that.  Don't just say "I want it all", but give special attention to things like the kitchenware for example.  What's an extra $5 a month if you have to drop $1,000 now to buy new dishes, pots and pans, and silverware? Considering she may be awarded nothing (it is a possibility, however remote) and the high percentage of men who are ordered to pay, but simply don't, the value of small tangible items is easy to overlook but very significant.

Where do women fail at divorce?
 Don't talk to the judge. If asked a question, she should answer directly and with remarkable brevity, as advised by her lawyer.  The attorney should do all the essential speaking.  Many women think that vilifying their ex will help a judge see from their point of view.  They'll talk about that time when they suspected he was cheating. Unless she has evidence that's already been presented to the court, that testimony is useless, they won't act on it.  They've heard it a million times before, and hearing it once more is just a waste of their time, they don't care.  Don't talk to any of his co-workers under any circumstance.  Never say or imply anything negative about his behavior or character she can't absolutely prove with tangible evidence. Not to anyone. Judges need legal justifications, not emotional justifications. Ranting to anyone, even if it's just to get her frustrations off her chest can come off as petty or a deliberate attempt to damage him.

She wants to project a rational and reasonable sensibility.  "We tried to make the marriage work, here's what we did, this is how the dynamic of the relationship changed. We've come to the mutual decision that it's better for our children and ourselves that we dissolve the marriage and pursue more stable, loving and productive relationships than we can have with each other. The distribution of marital assets is in dispute over these items for these reasons."  Still, there are women who think the best approach is to criticize everything about their ex, his job, friendships, or sexual performance.  That casual sniping and witty banter may be endearing in characters on all those TV shows about rich divorced women, but in real life it comes off a bitchy and childish and often costs women all credibility in a divorce hearing. I can't tell you how many times I've seen judges and mediators role their eyes after such statements.  There's no jury to sway with an emotional recounting of all the hurt. Keep emotion completely out of the court room.

Men make that mistake too, but much less frequently...  Unless he's a raving lunatic, in which case, let him get the last word in, he'll unwittingly help her. The righteous side always loses. Tell her not to worry about being right or helping others see the truth.  Stay focused on the objective.  Divorce is a legal function, not a moral statement.  The issue is now custody, financial compensation and distribution of marital assets.  Even if her husband tries to present himself as a saint, who cares? As longs as she gets what she's after in the divorce, he can tell people whatever he likes.

If attorneys can handle most of the asset distribution or reach an agreement on child support, custody arrangements etc, all the better.  She may benefit from employing a mediator to keep it out of court.  The less time standing before a judge, the less damage the relationship will do.  Lawyers will try to use it as leverage, but she can probably find a concession to negate it's impact. In the end, the lawyers know they won't run very far with the latest relationship gossip, so they'll take what they can get.  Tell her not to worry about it, but to have a discussion with her lawyer.  It may also be a good idea to run a background check on the new boyfriend so there aren't any surprises.  The lawyer can advise her how to do it, or she can do one through various companies locally or online for $30-$100 depending on the amount of detail requested

Summary:
• Seek advice from a lawyer in that state.
• Get the Boyfriends background check out of he way and stay informed.
• Remain civil and courteous, not petty or vengeful
• Remember the little things are a big deal in terms of value, and are easy for women with children to win.
• Don't worry, keep a clear head, make tactical decisions, and remember the divorce will be over soon, then life can get better. Keep the big picture in focus.

Offline Herbalpagan

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Re: Divorce question
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2011, 07:30:45 AM »
first suggestion made to me was to "refrain" from any dates or relationships until the divorce went to court.

Offline LvsChant

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Re: Divorce question
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2011, 07:51:37 AM »
Probably easier on the kids if she can focus on them first, too.

Offline OKGranny

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Re: Divorce question
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2011, 10:34:44 AM »
A lot of it depends on where in Oklahoma she lives. A great many places here are still uber conservative. For instance, the county I live in voted to allow liquor by the drink in 2008, until then it was illegal. I have a friend that remarried 14 months after her husband passed away and got slammed by her church for it. If I were her I'd wait.

Offline Klonus

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Re: Divorce question
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2011, 11:33:11 AM »
From my experience with divorce, I'd take some time to be by yourself for awhile and focus on yourself and the children involved. Divorce is a traumatic experience no matter the circumstances and rushing into a relationship seems like a bad idea, especially before it's final. As much as it's hard to be alone when you are used to having somewhere there, it's great to have some autonomy Again. Just my two cents. 

Offline Condition1

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Re: Divorce question
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2011, 11:48:50 AM »
Wait till the divorce is final. Reason for that is she can be as white as snow but if this new guy has any kind of a past it can be brought up.
She needs to be real careful till its over, especially if a custody battle is brewing.

Offline BetaMike

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Re: Divorce question
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2011, 12:46:55 PM »
Definitely, she should not get involved with anyone, for quite awhile, same with the father.  The kids definitely do not need that kind of stress or confusion in this process.  Generally, the relationship she is seeking is transitory/rebound and serves no function except to fulfill her (or in the case of the father, his) selfish desire.  At a time like this it should be all about the kids and only the kids.  Even in the best of divorce situations the kids still get screwed, so they deserve and require to be first and foremost in both actions as well as words.

Offline DeltaEchoVictor

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Re: Divorce question
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2011, 08:18:14 PM »
Heh, I'm going thru a divorce now.  We've been separated a year, & about 6 or 7 months before I actually filed (I'm in Missouri).  If her lawyer is on the ball they'll file the first set of papers with a "legal separation" in there somewhere....I'm guessing all states are different though & I'm sure she'll need to see what's applicable to her situation.

Anywho....long story short, if your friend doesn't have a lawyer looking out for her interests, she probably needs one.


Offline BusyBee

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Re: Divorce question
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2011, 12:18:34 PM »
(How'd this work out?)
I concur with everyone below - not a good time to get involved with someone else.
In most cases, divorce take much longer than anticipated and are harder on the kids.