Author Topic: .223 Ammo for a 1:7 twist AR15...  (Read 4650 times)

Offline Amerigo

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.223 Ammo for a 1:7 twist AR15...
« on: January 21, 2011, 04:29:55 PM »
I have 650 rounds of .223 UMC Remington, 55gr.  Don't ask me why I bought a bunch of ammo before I owned a firearm to shoot them with.   ::)  I just bought an AR15, and it's a 1:7 twist.  I know 55gr is not the ideal weight for this.

Am I OK to use this through my barrel?  This firearm isn't for competitions or hunting (unless I need to hunt some people stealing my food post-SHTF).  I'm not overly concerned with accuracy, but of course I need to be effective in a defensive situation.  Should I just use this ammo to practice with, but stock up on higher grain for my SHTF stash?  I'm new to shooting, so I'm going to burn through a lot of ammo before I become proficient, and I don't want to break the bank doing it. 

Can anyone recommend some ammo for me that won't cost me a fortune?  I got my current stash for 37 cents a round from Cheaper than Dirt.  What about either of these?
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM239-5.html
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM271-5.html

Or is using reloaded brass a bad idea?  If someone could post some links of some ammo they would suggest for both practice and for "the real deal" that would be appreciated.  I'm shooting in the dark here (pun intended).
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Offline Amerigo

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"Beneath the clothes we find a man, and beneath the man, we find... his... nucleus."

Offline Bradbn4

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Re: .223 Ammo for a 1:7 twist AR15...
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2011, 05:43:18 PM »
223 can be shot in the 5.56 nato rilfes - so no issue
55 grain is a bit light - but should be good out to 100 yards without too much issues.

What type barrel is it?  Standard 5.56 nato, 223, or Wylde chambered?  Wylde is designed to be in between the 5.56 and .223 and will shoot both.

I think you should have good luck between 50 grain - upper 70's with a 1/7 twist rate.  For lighter bullets I would try to limit your range to 100yards or less. 

You could always look at the bulk ammo folks (support your sponsors) - depends on the intended use.
For indoor range I have to make sure I get the plain old jacketed rounds.

If you want to go cheap - you might have some luck shooting non-re loadable wolf ammo.  I am not fond of some of the stories I have heard from Tula. Some match grade AR-15 can be picky and have issues ejecting this type of round.

So
1) get a broken case extractor
2) get a extra extractor
3) buy a small box and run it thru your rifle before going large order.

Cheap ammo - worth looking at - but steal cases can be hard on the receiver.

http://www.bulkammo.com/bulk-223-ammo-223rem62hptulablack-1000
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=ABS223HP62&name=Silver+Bear+.223+62grn+HP+20rd+Box&groupid=156

Over the last few months I think I have seen the price bottom out a bit and climb up in some places.

The ammo you referenced  seems to be good, most of the reviews are ok. 
Brad(bn4) - In Colorado

Offline Amerigo

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Re: .223 Ammo for a 1:7 twist AR15...
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2011, 07:01:22 PM »
The barrel is a 5.56 NATO. 

Judging from my skill with my Ruger 10-22, I'd barely be able to hit a school bus at 100 yards.  I'm as fresh as they come with firearms.  So if these rounds will allow me to learn how to shoot that's all I need for now.

As far as purchasing more for future use, is the best thing to do buy a few different types and just find out what works well with your rifle?  I'm afraid I won't be able to distinguish the accuracy between the types because the accuracy issues will be due to my skill level and not the bullets themselves.
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Offline mike77

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Re: .223 Ammo for a 1:7 twist AR15...
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2011, 07:22:08 PM »
I can't really answer your original question, but I would suggest that you try to find someone local to act as an instructor or mentor. Even just finding a friendly and reputable range staff could help out. Hopefully they can help answer questions such as these, but more importantly they can help you with the basic skills such as how to assess and improve your accuracy. They should also be able to teach you techniques to check the accuracy by reducing your influence. You could also try the Appleseed project. I haven't been yet but have heard great things about them.

Offline Bradbn4

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Re: .223 Ammo for a 1:7 twist AR15...
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2011, 07:43:27 PM »
From other folks chatting about 55 grain ammo you should be spot on at 50 yards.  If you are taking out coyotes 65 grain+ might be your best bet.  If you are talking about 25 feet inside your house you have more worries than being off 1/4" even if it is key-holing.

If you are shooting at a range - be careful never to use green tip ammo - esp if it is an indoor range.  Those folks get real ticked off when shooting something other than lead core ammo.   The trace rounds can start fires, the AP rounds dimple the metal back stops.

If you go the cheap Russian rounds - that's when I would make sure you run - 20 to 100 rounds before buying a large amount of ammo. If the chamber is a bit on the tight side you could have significant failure to feed / eject issues.   My advice is never use cheap steal case ammo on 223 rifles.  They are way to tight to work well.

Remember to save all your brass even if you do not reload.  Folks will pay good money, or you might later decide to reload.  The cheap Russian stuff is steel coated in one of the following (zink, copper, shellac, "plastic") can be have their uses.  They can become real good targets at shorter ranges.

A simple test on your rifle ammo combo would be to get a large cardboard sheet and set it up at 50 yards / 100 yards and shoot a few holes in it.  What you are looking for is a oblong hole.  If it is a nice circle - you have no issues.

One thing to remember, the AR-15 love to be wet - lots of lube compared to shooting a bolt action rifle.

No issues shooting good quality re-manufactured ammo - by quality I like Black Hills.

The Ruger 10/22 can be a lot more picky on ammo.  With a new barrel it can become a very good tack driver.



Brad(bn4) - In Colorado

Offline Roknrandy

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Re: .223 Ammo for a 1:7 twist AR15...
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2011, 08:44:09 PM »
From other folks chatting about 55 grain ammo you should be spot on at 50 yards.  If you are taking out coyotes 65 grain+ might be your best bet.  If you are talking about 25 feet inside your house you have more worries than being off 1/4" even if it is key-holing.

If you are shooting at a range - be careful never to use green tip ammo - esp if it is an indoor range.  Those folks get real ticked off when shooting something other than lead core ammo.   The trace rounds can start fires, the AP rounds dimple the metal back stops.

If you go the cheap Russian rounds - that's when I would make sure you run - 20 to 100 rounds before buying a large amount of ammo. If the chamber is a bit on the tight side you could have significant failure to feed / eject issues.   My advice is never use cheap steal case ammo on 223 rifles.  They are way to tight to work well.

Remember to save all your brass even if you do not reload.  Folks will pay good money, or you might later decide to reload.  The cheap Russian stuff is steel coated in one of the following (zink, copper, shellac, "plastic") can be have their uses.  They can become real good targets at shorter ranges.

A simple test on your rifle ammo combo would be to get a large cardboard sheet and set it up at 50 yards / 100 yards and shoot a few holes in it.  What you are looking for is a oblong hole.  If it is a nice circle - you have no issues.

One thing to remember, the AR-15 love to be wet - lots of lube compared to shooting a bolt action rifle.

No issues shooting good quality re-manufactured ammo - by quality I like Black Hills.

The Ruger 10/22 can be a lot more picky on ammo.  With a new barrel it can become a very good tack driver.

I bolded the part I wanted to address
I have never lubed either of my AR's or M16 (when I was in the army) like that, I have always applied a thin film and never had a problem with them functioning

Ya know, the more I think about it the madder I get.  Our motto, what we believed down in our heart, went something like this "ye though I walk through the Valley of Death we will fear no evil...for we are the baddest mother strawberry pickers in the Valley".

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Offline Bradbn4

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Re: .223 Ammo for a 1:7 twist AR15...
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2011, 09:50:05 PM »
I bolded the part I wanted to address
I have never lubed either of my AR's or M16 (when I was in the army) like that, I have always applied a thin film and never had a problem with them functioning

All I know both my double star & Rock River seem to cycle much better during the break in process with a bit of extra lube to make it happy.  More oil means more dirt collection - so maybe run it "lite" and it's always easier to touch it up if you have issues. 

Did you use CLP - or another type of lube?
Brad(bn4) - In Colorado

Offline Roknrandy

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Re: .223 Ammo for a 1:7 twist AR15...
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2011, 07:24:28 AM »
Amerigo, that ammo will work fine in your rifle. Use it for practice and you'll be fine. If your looking at longer range shots, 300 yards or more you might want to use a heaver bullet (70 grain or higher). Take a look at reloading your own and do some experimenting. I use the same ammo in my 11.5" barrels and it works fine (1-9 twist). Heres an article that might help you some http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/perf_whattwist.html

Ya know, the more I think about it the madder I get.  Our motto, what we believed down in our heart, went something like this "ye though I walk through the Valley of Death we will fear no evil...for we are the baddest mother strawberry pickers in the Valley".

FAILURE TO PLAN ON YOUR PART DOES NOT CONSTITUTE AN EMERGENCY ON MY PART

Offline Bradbn4

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Re: .223 Ammo for a 1:7 twist AR15...
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2011, 11:56:38 AM »
I was thinking - you did say you had a nice Ruger 10/22 - I would recommend that you look at finding a local Appleseed event and bring your 10/22 for some in-expensive how to shoot training.

Your ammo is "cheap", heck, not that expensive even for the .223 / 5.56 rifle.  Expect to shoot 500+ rounds.

Here is more info - http://www.appleseedinfo.org/ for more information.

Brad(bn4) - In Colorado

Offline Muddyboots

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Re: .223 Ammo for a 1:7 twist AR15...
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2011, 01:28:30 PM »
It has been my observation that M193 (5.56X45 NATO 55gr) works fine in 1:7 twist barrels. It looses some of it's potential accuracy out past about 300M but at this range, light and wind are going to give the average shooter more error potential than that caused by spin stability. Yes, there are shooters out there who can tell that they are loosing something to the combination of 55gr. +1:7 barrel they are also capable enough to eliminate the other errors to easily adjust to the gear. At sub 200M 55 gr will be more accurate than 99% of the people shooting it. Strive to be part of that 1%, you will know when you get there.

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