grabbed from behind while walking on cell phone.....

[mountainmoma]

Although, this can happen easily enough without the cell phone. We walk by people every day, any of them could reach out and grab us from behind as we pass them. This is made more likely by the fact that we do not keep the mentally ill off the streets, at least not in California. It is not enough to take their guns, and let them out, because they can use their arms and hands. It is a huge problem that we literally have no where to keep them and us safe. SO, how to prepare for the fact that this is getting worse ?

Here is a recent case from a city not very far from me. Where she was walking is the busiest intersection not on a freeway, this ares is not a "bad area", it is the fixed up, nice, tourist, expensive store area, many people drove right past her without stopping or helping, it was daylight, the first person who did stop was another woman, once that women pulled over, then other people stopped to help. Yes, you can get beat up or raped in broad daylight in a busy area and not get help, potentially.

Around 7PM on Wednesday night, a woman fought off a stranger at the clock tower in downtown Santa Cruz who tried to rip off her clothes and rape her in broad daylight, in front of a number of onlookers and witnesses. The woman was walking past the clock tower on Pacific Avenue when a man jumped out, put her in a bear hug, and tried to pull down her pants as she fought back. He then stripped naked and began masturbating, according to police. The victim suffered bruises while struggling with the suspect and was very shaken up after the incident. Onlookers called 911 and when police arrived, the man tried to attack the officers, police said. The man was arrested on charges of attempted rape and assaulting a peace officer. Arrest records show that he was arrested just 24 hours before the clock tower attack. For jumping over a fence and trespassing. Where? At SCPD’s main station! He was arrested, held for 4 hours, then dumped by the county jail into downtown, where he walked a few blocks to the clock tower and tried to rape this innocent woman. You can thank the county and the open turnstiles at the county jail for this!

Here’s a first hand account of what happened:

“I was attacked on the corner of Pacific Ave right at the clock tower at 7:00pm while it was still daylight out. I was walking home from my work talking on the phone with my friend. When suddenly I felt somebody grab me from behind and push me to the floor. It was a (presumably) homeless man in his 40s, Asian. He ripped the button off of my jeans and tried to pull them down while I was pushing him off of me screaming at the top of my lungs “help me help me get him off of me!”. This lasted for at least two minutes until a car pulled to the side and a woman came out of the car and pulled me away from him. Other people came by and kicked him to get him off of me, as he was continuing to lunge at me as I was pulled into the car. At this moment he started to strip off all his clothes and started masturbating for everyone to see.

I called the police and went to the station and had him arrested. He fought back against the cops and ended up in the ER for resisting. I was brave for fighting him off of me for at least two minutes but I saw life and death in front of my eyes and I didn’t want to give up. I was in complete shock that this had happened to me on the normal walk and in such a public place. I feel as if our town is being taken over by the mentally ill and I want to be able to help him but at the same time we don’t have enough patrolling out there to keep us all safe. I was recognized by an officer today at breakfast and he came up to me to ask me if I was OK and to tell me he was disturbed by the case. He told me that the same man was just released two days prior after being arrested for jumping the fence at the police station. I think people are desensitized to homeless people screaming so they didn’t think twice about me screaming. No one came to my rescue for maybe almost 5 mins. I have bruises and cuts on my legs and I hit my head as he pushed me to the ground. Please be careful when your by yourself walking in this town it’s not safe”

from here, as well as a picture of the suspect while waiting for police to arrive...... http://www.santamierda.com/2018/04/27/the-weekly-dump-4-27-18/

[Carl]

  I wonder how many shot video to load to farcebook or youtube and cared nothing for the actual event? Society has become DISCONNECTED.

[LvsChant]

I know that I have been guilty of not practicing enough situational awareness... this is a good reminder that we should wait until we are in a safe place to make phone calls... perhaps we should wait until we are at our destination to make or receive calls (in the same way we would while driving).

As for the issue of mental illness, dangerous individuals being released into the public, etc. I have no idea of a solution... (and I realize that I certainly have no control over this). I guess we have to just be more cautious in our day to day lives...

[mountainmoma]

As for the issue of mental illness, dangerous individuals being released into the public, etc. I have no idea of a solution... (and I realize that I certainly have no control over this). I guess we have to just be more cautious in our day to day lives...

A solution for your state is to not let it get as bad as it is here. Make sure your area does not cut funding and does not close down facilities for the mentally ill, or makes a few new ones. Do not pass the laws that California has that makes it so criminals do not get locked up, just probation, then if they do it again, more probation. Do not cut funding or hiring for your local police department, as was done in this area. There is not nearly enough police to possibly enforce or prevent, not even enough to arrest, so they dont until it is something like this. This man was so out of it, he was trying to break into the police station the day before, but he was not "5150'd" on a 48 hours hold, as we do not have enough room. Even the ones that get that mental hold, almost all are then released after 48 hours, even though by any sense of "danger to themselves or others" they would qualify, the new standard is that if they are not physically attacking someone while being released, they are released. Sometimes they give them drugs for compliancy then release, but an awful lot of the time, these people do not have the motivation or ability to continue taking the meds, and so are right back to being unable to care for themselves, and some become violent to others. Last week I watched a coffee kiosk camera footage of a man that just rode is bike up, screamed profanities, broke things on the counter, tried to get in, mom with stroller hastening way, away...... and no help is called for this man, he is not taken off the streets. But, he is off the rails and a danger, but has not laid his hands on someone that has reported it, yet..... Do not let your area become like ours.

[LvsChant]

I get your point... but I have a rather low opinion of the political process and how much effect we can have on it in general. I know CA is worse off than other states (in many ways)... perhaps a prediction of things to come elsewhere and the end result.

[David in MN]

It's an ugly situation. And I don't have a good answer. Childless me would certainly jump in and provide defense with the problem that I might kill a mentally disabled person with a left hook. Nowadays when I'm carrying my baby through town I don't want to get my hands dirty because I'm concerned about diseases and who will care for my kid while I get arrested for intervening. I don't know if I'm striking a guy with Hep C.

In a way we've set up a situation where a good guy can't intervene. Even if I show up and do what the vast majority consider the right thing I'm exposing myself to whatever diseases this homeless man has and then a legal structure that wants to pin me down as a violent _______ (racist, sexist, homophobe).

I also sympathize with the victim. She pulls out the KaBar and suddenly she's arrested for defending herself. She knifes the weakest in our society....

Honestly I feel the only defense women have is martial arts. As a society we laugh at a guy who is beat up by a girl. But she becomes the bad guy in a heartbeat if she uses a baseball bat. I'll teach my daughter to box. It's the only realistic plan. As my wife would joke, "Dave, you're a 6'2" 250 lb giant. Nobody fucks with me when you're around. But you're not always around." Thhat was eye opening that my experience isn't universal.

I'll add something that bothers me that we don't talk about. If he's mentally insane he doesn't know the difference. He tries to molest everybody. Oh but his insanity permits him to accost the cute girl and when he fails then the naked jerk session is proof of the brain issues. He's not insane. Insane people do insane things across the board (they're in my family). He's RATIONAL for a molester until he's caught. He would have raped that woman and insanity was a preferred defense.

Would that we lived in a world............

[Carl]

  I also found that at 6'5" and 300 PLUS,I do still get 'targeted' but often only by those who have weapons or are under the influence.

[mountainmoma]

Yeah, training is likely helpful. But, I have personally been overpowered, and it doesnt take much. A small drunk guy, best I could do was a "draw", if I knew martial arts back then, yep, I could have gotten away from small drunk guy. I am a bit skeptical about situations were the other person is larger and more motivated, I think some things can be done, maybe enough, but when you are short and weigh so little and have almost no strength, I dont think more training will always do it. I think someone my size needs an equalizer, and I think it is a rare woman who can physically defend herself from a grown man without one. If I hit you, for example, it would hardly register, if DaveMN hit me, it could kill. I have been slapped by a man and it had me dazed and my ears ringing, and bruised, and that was someone who wasnt motivated..... I enjoy the hollywood depictions of petite women beating up guys, but I know it isnt real

[Carl]

  The act of surprise does add much power to an attack and your best defense is awareness of your surroundings or walking in groups for defense.

[LvsChant]

  The act of surprise does add much power to an attack and your best defense is awareness of your surroundings or walking in groups for defense.

^^This.

To me... awareness of surroundings is crucial. And... stay out of California.

[mountainmoma]

  The act of surprise does add much power to an attack and your best defense is awareness of your surroundings or walking in groups for defense.

Sure, but we do not want to be stuck at home unless we have a group to go out with ! We go to work, we shop, we may want to take a walk.....

And, yes, I remember walking with my youngest and a friend when they were young teens and the friend didnt get why we crossed over to the other side of the street to not walk by a group of men. And, that is because these days people (around here ) do not want to be offensive, or in the case of this young friend literally felt strong and empowered and was not afraid of anything even if she should have been, had no idea there could be dangers. So, of course, awareness is good.

While it would be prudent to have enough awareness to not be within arms reach of anyone, even at the risk of having them take offense. I have heard of women touched or grabbed in that same town, in what passes as the downtown crowded area were you cannot avoid walking within arms length of others, so given that it is California greater Bay Area, and that we do not take care of our mentally ill or punish criminals, it can happen anywhere. This incident was in an area with people.

And, I get why we do walk alone, even when it is safer to walk in groups. If you are not a woman, you may not know how limiting it is to be told not to jog or hike alone. It is not so easy to just have someone there with you, you just want to go and live your life and get to where you need to get to, or go take that run. The woman in the example up thread was just walking home from work, and quite frankly, at that intersection, it would have been "clowns on the left of me, jokers on the right, and here I am..." She may have picked the clock tower side of the street because it only had one disheveled man, a bit out of shape, as opposed to a group of 4 young ones on the other side. We can be aware and still not be able to avoid all people. So, she walks by the one man, and likely at more than arms length, then he runs up behind her as soon as she passes....   The area in question is not considered a risky place, it was daylight, there were people about, if a woman cant walk alone there, we cant walk alone anywhere.

A few years ago, cant remember, maybe 5 years ago, a different woman, a business owner, was walking home from work from the same small downtown tourist area, in the daylight, in a perpendicular direction from this weeks attack, and out of nowhere a crazed man ran up and attacked her, with a knife, and killed her. Completely random. Some things we can avoid, but it also seems that you are either free or you cage yourself because you can be randomly attacked when you are not in a dangerous area.

Maybe better situational awareness would have us hearing those quick steps towards us, and time to pull out something equalizing, with the risk of looking foolish from time to time with that ka-bar or mace in our hand saying hi to a friend....

I carry pepper spray, on a ring on the outside, hanging off my purse, and I almost had to use it once on a transient woman, as I needed to use the restroom, but it turned out that I moved alot faster than her. Moving quickly and keeping distance, of course, is the best alternative. My hand is on it in many situations, even if most people I know thinks it is silly.

I have seriously considered ways to carry a weapon legally, even if not "yet", for if safety continues to degrade. I am not sure if a fixed blade is effective coming from a small, older woman, it would need a bit of training, but if someone is crazily rushing you, their own weight and momentum would be helpful. A fixed blade can be legally carried if it is not concealed, so a sheath on the outside of your purse, integrated, where the handle can be seen is legal, etc.....   A gun can even be carried if it is unloaded and locked ( dont laugh, while not useful against a sneak attack, an awful lot of times people use a gun or wish they have had a gun, they actually have time ) It can be locked in a purse compartment, a messanger bag, etc... The loaded magazine does not have to be locked, etc...

So, maybe if people know of ways to fend off attacks, or resources because people read these threads, that could be dded to this thread

[Carl]

  Our society has changed a lot in half a century and even churches will often have armed staff. I am quite a large man and mostly disabled now...but even when I was able,I often carried something that qualified as a weapon with me. Many times I walked with a cane,a hardwood cane and I knew how to use it to strike any foe to a crippling advantage. I used it twice in 15 ,so far,years and seriously put down attackers that were more capable than I was. There are also tactical umbrellas that can end a fight or a life . Find what your strength is and a weapon of opportunity might not be hard to find.

  Many women think that being on the cell phone with hubby or a friend will keep then safe and secure.....this is just a distraction that is often the very reason an attack takes place. Find a SCOTT E VEST (link below) to carry your ID,money,credit cards and phone....so you appear to have NOTHING to STEAL and carry exercise weights (cans of bear spray?) when jogging or walking...learn to arm yourself and remove targets for thieves.It is sad,but we must become more proactive with our own security these days as many people are raised with exposure to the drug/criminal culture and some come from parts of the world that allows violence against others as 'normal'. It is a different world we live in than that we were children in. A woman walking with her hand in her purse just screams GUN to the criminal looking for a target and yet this is a non aggressive posture that makes you far less a target of opportunity as you then pose a threat to evil doers who will look for a far less dangerous victim. 


https://www.scottevest.com/best-travel-clothing.shtml?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3Ji3jLrd2gIV3bbACh3yPwiiEAAYASAAEgJPFPD_BwE

[David in MN]

I get back to boxing. You throw the 3,4,5 punch combination and get in stance and even without knockout power you're at least hardened. Somehow these "insane" people will know to back down from the hint of a fight. I like the pepper spray. I also like having a cell phone out to record. But hand to hand you either know a legit martial art or it's a bad day.

People do not understand the power difference between the sexes. Hollywood has not done us favors in this department. Men are bigger, naturally carry more muscle, have bigger hands, even our waist to shoulder ratio is better for striking. Serena Williams is arguably the best female tennis player ever and she gets beat by amateur men. The best stars of the WNBA can't enter the NBA. I'm a big fan of Holly Holm but I know  she can't swing with the men's division. When you start breaking down strength by gender it's amazingly different. On the order that a female who pursues strength training might be stronger than .1% of the entire healthy male population. If this sounds crazy just remember that the way to cheat at sports is by using testosterone. Compared to women men have a built in cheating advantage at strength.

I know of one woman who defended herself with juijitsu when attacked and left the criminal unconscious. Stuff like Muay Thai or even Tae Kwon Do have a place for defense. I would also advocate wearing clothing that deters people. Does it hurt to exercise in a "South Side Boxing Club" shirt? Clothing from Ringside or Title might make you look like a tough customer.

When my wife used to work out in an unsavory part of town she would show up withher hand in her purse holding her Asp baton. Not quite legal but she felt it was the tool for dealing with vagrants if she needed to protect herself. If that sounds like a good idea you can always use the old Hell's Angels standby. There is no law anywhere preventing you from carrying a ball peen hammer.

It's a sad state of affairs. Where we live my wife can walk around safely and I can't imagine living somewhere she couldn't. And I worry about the escalation as I raise my daughter. When I was younger and worked at a factory and we had a groper we took him on the freight elevator and beat the tar out of him. I don't feel that kind of social stigma anymore. Charles Bronson has become David Hogg.

[mountainmoma]

I'll add something that bothers me that we don't talk about. If he's mentally insane he doesn't know the difference. He tries to molest everybody. Oh but his insanity permits him to accost the cute girl and when he fails then the naked jerk session is proof of the brain issues. He's not insane. Insane people do insane things across the board (they're in my family). He's RATIONAL for a molester until he's caught. He would have raped that woman and insanity was a preferred defense.

Would that we lived in a world............

Further info on this guy. He was interviewed the week before by the local paper as a representative of homelessness, he seemed fine to them, told them he is homeless by choice as he doesnt want to work anymore ( it is easy to live unhoused and unemployed here, which is why they are here) When he was in jail, the day before the attack, the jail did call mental health services, so he must have had alot of signs of being off, as local jails have seen it all, and usually just release with a court date, but they said he wasnt crazy enough for their limited capacity. When he was arrested after attacking this women police say he was very blank, like he wasnt there, I dont know. He could be as you say, not crazy but acting rational given his warped world view an values, I dont know. I figure lock him up in one place or the other. Given that this has been hitting national news, this one may even get a couple years of jail time.

“He had a blank, unresponsive stare,” Detective Steve Pendleton, who interviewed Muro after the attack, told the Sentinel. “He didn’t seem angry; not sad or anything.”

Muro had been in jail a day before the attack, according to Santa Cruz County Jail records. He was arrested Tuesday on loitering charges, and released later in the day, records said.

Santa Cruz Police Chief Andy Mills told the Sentinel that California’s mental health services are “completely broken.” After Muro’s Tuesday arrest, mental health evaluators looked at Muro and determined he couldn’t be taken to a mental health facility.

“We need to lobby the state legislature and the federal government to make sure we are able to put people like this away where they cannot hurt people,” Mills told the Sentinel.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/article210023779.html#storylink=cpy

[David in MN]

Further info on this guy. He was interviewed the week before by the local paper as a representative of homelessness, he seemed fine to them, told them he is homeless by choice as he doesnt want to work anymore ( it is easy to live unhoused and unemployed here, which is why they are here) When he was in jail, the day before the attack, the jail did call mental health services, so he must have had alot of signs of being off, as local jails have seen it all, and usually just release with a court date, but they said he wasnt crazy enough for their limited capacity. When he was arrested after attacking this women police say he was very blank, like he wasnt there, I dont know. He could be as you say, not crazy but acting rational given his warped world view an values, I dont know. I figure lock him up in one place or the other. Given that this has been hitting national news, this one may even get a couple years of jail time.

“He had a blank, unresponsive stare,” Detective Steve Pendleton, who interviewed Muro after the attack, told the Sentinel. “He didn’t seem angry; not sad or anything.”

Muro had been in jail a day before the attack, according to Santa Cruz County Jail records. He was arrested Tuesday on loitering charges, and released later in the day, records said.

Santa Cruz Police Chief Andy Mills told the Sentinel that California’s mental health services are “completely broken.” After Muro’s Tuesday arrest, mental health evaluators looked at Muro and determined he couldn’t be taken to a mental health facility.

“We need to lobby the state legislature and the federal government to make sure we are able to put people like this away where they cannot hurt people,” Mills told the Sentinel.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/article210023779.html#storylink=cpy

BS. My wife's aunt is insane. She will send us cards about national pet day and write a message about tracking mileage. We don't have a pet and I don't know why we would track mileage around town. She's legit off her nut and can't tell that she's giving useless information to people on the wrong day. This asshat somehow seems to be able to differentiate between who would be a good victim.

Insane people are just as likely to fight a 12 year old girl and Mike Tyson. They don't understand the consequences of either. If I threw a pipe bomb under the wheel of the Wells Fargo truck and got stopped in the heist stripping naked isn't a defense. This criminal sex offender went in knowing what he was doing and then put on a show to lessen the charges.

Why not a guy? Why not an elderly woman? Why not a 4 year old? This is a junk perp using his knowledge of the criminal code to be labeled crazy rather than a rapist. Nice to know in Cali I can knock over a 7/11 and if I get caught strip naked and blame mental illness. Will this increase or decrease crime?

[mountainmoma]

Another example of the disproportionallity of strength between the genders. There is a very silly non-news item going around about how great it iwas a young American tourist stood up for herself with a man who grabbed her butt. While she was right to call him out on it, punching him as she did was a very dangerous move. She is young and strong, she has some training

Leanna Carr, 26, happens to be a powerlifter and a strength coach, and when she felt threatened by the man, she reacted by punching him right in the kisser.

But, what was his reaction to this ? Her knuckles are red and almost bruised from one punch, it was a show of all her strength, for him it hurt, but not a big hurt, enough to make him mad

After the punch, the situation become momentarily hostile; the man began cursing at Carr and getting in her face. "For a second, I was worried that it was going to escalate," she recalled.

Thankfully, a couple who witnessed the attack yelled at the man to "keep walking," and that's exactly what he did.

And, if no one around her and stood up for her, what would the result have been ?

I get why she did it, like most of our young women, she has no personal experience of the strength disparity, and of course a first reaction to him is to lash out and stand up for yourself, I tend this way when I shouldn't too, and I should know better, I would not be physical back, I dont think, as I do know. I would likely say too much, and maybe that would be ok. It is good to not be seen as a victim, but escalating the physical, as she did, is dangerous. It is one thing to be physical when you have no choice, you must do your best then, but it is dangerous as a woman vs a man to be the one to take it to a physical fight !

And, media is applauding her actions, and actually she was stupid. Maybe it was just an automatic reaction on her part, without thought, but not something we should be advocating.

Sorry it is not a news site, but is the first written account of it I could find, and I am talking about it here just to show the dangers we face and another example of why we realy need equalizers. Edit : No, I would not advocate using an equalizer of any sort in her situation where where she was briefly groped, it is dangerous to escalate ! I just meant that this again shows the strength disparity and why equalizers are neccessary in situations where you could be hurt or killed  https://www.dailywire.com/news/30250/man-gropes-tourist-telling-her-she-liked-it-amanda-prestigiacomo?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-podcast&utm_campaign=mattwalsh

[FrugalFannie]

MountainMomma -

other than the attempted rape that is one hilarious police log! (ok, the guy dying in the MC crash is also not funny)

[mountainmoma]

MountainMomma -

other than the attempted rape that is one hilarious police log! (ok, the guy dying in the MC crash is also not funny)

It's a circus over there, for sure. Pretty much every week. It is written weekly, subscribe just for the entertainment and for further proof that coastal CA is crazy

Besides the obvious entertainment value, I hope you all will take it s a warning and continue to have your communities support law and order and not follow CA's lead on this....

[mountainmoma]

More information on help/lack of help during the attack  -- a teenaged woman and complete stranger jumps in and grabs the guy, while an older aquaintance of the victim just keeps on walking by....

The first person to help her, after quite a few minutes of her yelling and struggling, was a woman, as I stated, but it turns out that she was also just a 15 year old teenaged woman, she was driving by as a passenger in a car with friends, saw and heard the commotion, and begged/made them pull over, so she jumped out and started pulling him, while the victim was pushing him, was able to extricate the victim.

Sophia Fries was in a car with her friends when she saw a man on top of a woman who was screaming for help.

Fries, 15, jumped out of the vehicle near the Town Clock about 7 p.m. April 26 and helped to fight off the attacker and pull the victim, Sarah Shinsky, to safety.......

“My instant reaction was to help her,”

meanwhile, it turns out that one of the people who kept walking and ignored the attempted rape, knew the victim, s/he just didn't know it at the time, s/he didnt look or go and try and help or call for help....

An acquaintance walking by during the attack did nothing to help, Shinsky said.

“When I’m screaming ‘Help’ right there, do not turn your eyes away,” Shinsky said, calling for community awareness to help anyone enduring an attack.

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/general-news/20180504/citizens-group-denounces-attack-near-town-clock-and-questions-use-of-mental-health-funding

[Applejack]

I know this post is a few months old. But in light of the fact that many folks will be out Christmas shopping we all need to be reminded to be fully aware of our surroundings. Stay safe while doing your Christmas shopping. Cell phones can wait till you are in a safe place to talk or text on them. Stay safe everyone.

[LvsChant]

+1 Applejack... fantastic and timely reminder.