Author Topic: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed  (Read 14774 times)

Offline WiFiNetGuy

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Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« on: February 15, 2011, 08:45:48 PM »
Hello, everyone. I'm such a rookie when it comes to investing. I currently have about $10K in the stock market. With my worry about our financial condition I'm seriously considering moving my investments into silver. I've read quite a bit about the silver coins, some places to purchase, etc. While I believe that it's a good idea to invest in silver, I don't know how much I should "jump in". I'm actually considering moving all of my investments to silver. Could any of you give me some insight as to the things to research? I would also be interested in your opinions, hopefully based on some facts. ;-)

I know I'm not putting much "meat" into my question. But I really don't know what I don't know. Feel free to point me to any very basic information that would help me make up my mind. It also seems to me that I remember seeing some information here on TSP about getting started in silver and gold investing. But I can't find it.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Offline tamo42

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2011, 09:52:14 PM »
It depends on what your goals are with the $10k. If you are looking to protect your money, then putting it all in one thing is not the smart play (and this coming from a guy who is in the silver market). If this is risk capital that you are looking for a high return and are willing to accept the risk, then putting a large chunk in something you know a lot about make sense.

If you are just looking to diversify your portfolio, putting a little into silver would be wise (IMHO).

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2011, 10:19:59 PM »
My name is TexDaddy and I am a silver bug.

My first advice, if you decide to buy silver is to buy physical silver, not paper silver. A little research will reveal the level of fraud that is associated with this, and, "if you don't hold it, you don't own it."

Secondly, find a local, reputable coin shop and do business face to face. The local shop I patronize buys and sells coins, rounds and bars. Some like eBay, some like APMEX. I like to do business face to face and in cash.

Next, decide why you are buying silver. Is it an investment, a hedge against inflation or for post SHTF trading? My own personal answer is yes to each of these. YMMV. This will help you decide what type of silver to buy, coins, rounds, bullion or even silverware.

I have a couple of reference works I use to know the composition of coins. This is useful in calculation their value. For U.S. coins, I use http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Book-United-States-Coins/dp/0794831486/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297832687&sr=1-1 It contains information about every U.S. coin ever minted.

For other than U.S. coins, I use http://www.amazon.com/2010-Standard-Catalog-World-Coins/dp/0896898148/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297832764&sr=1-5 It contains info on every coin I have every wanted to know about.

I like silver coins, including American Silver Eagles, but mostly 1964 and before U.S. coinage. I also like some Canadian and Mexican silver, but I don't care for rounds and I don't like bars. I do have a few silver spoons but my wife thinks they are part of her tea set.  ;)

There different opionions on this subject on this forum. None of them are wrong, even when I don't exactly agree. It all depends on what you want from your silver.

Offline ncjeeper

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2011, 10:26:12 PM »

My first advice, if you decide to buy silver is to buy physical silver, not paper silver. A little research will reveal the level of fraud that is associated with this, and, "if you don't hold it, you don't own it."

Secondly, find a local, reputable coin shop and do business face to face. The local shop I patronize buys and sells coins, rounds and bars. Some like eBay, some like APMEX. I like to do business face to face and in cash.

I agree to both of these points. Thats what I do. My dealer lets me pick out the nicer coins. I dont want to purchase a bunch of worn culls like you see for sale on ebay.

Offline Asclepius

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2011, 12:20:24 AM »
I started by talking to people and learning from them.

Then I picked a coin shop and started making small purchases from them.

I made some mistakes (don't buy silver on ebay), learned some things, and when I felt comfortable I started making larger purchases.

Now I've become a familiar face to the coin shops and pawn shops in the area, and sometimes they'll set stuff aside for me.

Youtube has a number of informational videos available. Check out the animated series at http://www.youtube.com/mrsilvergoldsilver

Offline WiFiNetGuy

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2011, 06:10:27 AM »
Thank you, everyone that has posted a reply, for the information. I really appreciate the insight and suggestions.

Offline Crash

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2011, 02:08:10 PM »
You can never go wrong with US Silver Eagles. You have to watch the 100 oz Engelhard bars because there are some fakes out there. APMEX is good. AOCS is good. Sunshine Mint is good (they made NORFEDS until the raid). Pan American (NWT Mint) is good. A reputable dealer in your area that carries good silver is a pretty safe bet. Just watch what you buy and make sure it's solid .999 or above silver and not 100 mils (plated) or "German Silver".

I prefer rounds, but have some bars. I'd also suggest getting fractionals as well as 1 oz and up. Should we get to a SHTF scenario, the 1/10, 1/4 and 1/2 oz pieces will be easier to deal with on smaller purchases. I hold 1/4, 1/2, and 1 oz pieces with a few 1/10 oz thrown in. 1/10th will buy a small ticket item like bread.

I have a guy I deal with all the time, George Wilmot, and actually found him on Ebay. He's got MREs and survival products too. He's always been straight-up with me.

http://www.allseasonssurvival.com/

and for his metals

http://www.qualitypreciousmetals.com/

You may also want to contact Bernie at H&H Coins in NC. He's always been straight-up too. I deal with both him and George a LOT. Oh and Bernie has TSP coins too. Support those who support us.

http://sites.google.com/site/hnhcoinshop/

Offline ag2

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2011, 09:45:14 AM »
Quote
...Sunshine Mint is good (they made NORFEDS until the raid)

What does this mean, "....until the raid"?

Offline tamo42

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2011, 10:19:34 AM »
What does this mean, "....until the raid"?

The short version of the story is that the FBI raided the mint for creating legal tender, which is a power the congress as arrogated to itself. Never mind that the mint had been in communication with the Treasury department the whole time to specifically avoid this issue, and that Treasury agreed that the mint was not producing such.

Anyways, the FBI came in and took all the coins. I don't think they have been seen since.

You can google around to get more of the details, or maybe another member can keep his blood pressure under control while telling the whole story.

Offline ncjeeper

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2011, 12:48:08 PM »
Silver is at $ 32.39 as of 2:45 est.

Offline Asclepius

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2011, 10:50:15 PM »
YESS!!

Offline Crash

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2011, 12:56:47 AM »
What does this mean, "....until the raid"?

Ok the rest of the story...I took my BP meds.

Liberty NORFED started in 1998 and was producing gold, silver, platinum, pewter (very rare), and copper rounds similar to AOCS coins (look in the gear shop here for the TSP copper rounds by AOCS).

On November 14, 2007, the FBI raided Liberty NORFED and the Sunshine Mint in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, seizing all the gold, silver, and platinum, and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars. The FBI also seized computers and files and froze the Liberty Dollar bank accounts.

As of today, there has been no trial and one of the "Liberty Dollar Four", William Kevin Innes, is STILL being held without bond and without trial on obviously bogus charges. The rest is all in the links below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar

http://thebreakingtime.typepad.com/the_breaking_time/2009/06/read-the-liberty-dollar-indictment.html

Alert: There are fake Ron Paul NORFEDs out there. Only 3,500 real copper ones and 10,000 silver ones got out before the raid and they are very scarce. Going price for the real deal is $20 and up to as high as $70 for copper and as high as $450 for the silver ones. The fakes are similar, but weigh only 11 grams (they have 1 ADVP Oz copper stamped on them) and the back has "One Dollar" on it while the REAL Ron Paul NORFEDs have "Vote for Truth" on them. Don't be fooled and ripped off.

Sunshine Mint is still operational and minting silver and gold.

http://www.sunshinemint.com/

I hope that answered any questions.

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2011, 06:13:02 PM »
The aforementioned raid is one of the reasons the AOCS Barter Medallions should never be referred to as 'coins.' For one thing, they are by definition, not coins. One of the qualifications of being a coin is that it was or is legal tender. The raid is also the reason the denomitations of the Barter Medallions are just numbers. The Liberty Dollars attracted the attention of the Secret Service and the FBI by the use of the word 'dollar' opening the door for the charge of being a competing currency. The AOCS goes to great lengths to avoid this perception.

Offline Crash

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2011, 11:14:13 PM »
My bad, sorry. Yes you are right, I need to call them "rounds" or "medallions". AOCS does refer to them as "coins" on their website, though.

I think the big thing with NORFED was they had Lady Liberty on the obverse and the word "Dollar" on the reverse in common US denominations. At least that's my understanding. At any rate, you have to be careful how you say anything these days.

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2011, 11:32:00 PM »
...AOCS does refer to them as "coins" on their website, though...
Actually, I haven't found anywhere on the AOCS site that calls them anything other than barter medallions. The TSP shop does have them listed under coins, though. The AOCS website might call them coins somewhere, but I have not found it.

Offline geoffreys7

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2011, 08:09:05 AM »
I recently bought some silver from a local coin shop and what I found disturbing is that you have to pay sales tax on it.  That's a 8 3/4% mark up over the selling price, if you buy n ebay most likely you won't have to pay sales tax. 

Offline tamo42

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2011, 09:02:37 AM »
That depends on your state. In my state of Georgia, there is no sales tax on this.

Offline hanzel

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2011, 09:03:00 AM »
Here is what I have learned from over 10 years of buying silver.

The price will always go down after you buy.  The price will always go up after you sell.  ( Call it Murphy's law tax )

Unless you are buying 1000 tr oz bars, you will not be paying spot price.  Remember, the store must make money off the transaction.

If you want to buy split your purchase in 1/2, same goes for selling.  If you want 100 tr oz, then buy them in 50 tr oz lots or if you have the nerve, 1/3 - 2/3. Rule #1 says the price will change on you.

Learn to love "junk" ( pre 1965 coins ), the cost of these coins over spot is very low.

Learn to think of silver and gold as real money ( see the US constitution )  and remember the Federal Reserve Note is a non tangible commodity.  If you buy an tr oz of silver today, it will always be the same 31.1 grams of silver ( or gold ) tomorrow, next week, or next year.  I have dollar coins from the 1880's, when they were minted they contained 26.73 grams of silver, 130 years later, they still have the same silver content.  

FYI, once you learn to think of junk coins as money again you will learn that what the media tells you about cost and inflation does not always hold true.  Todays high gasoline prices in FRN per Gas Buddy is $3.17 ( WOW ) however when priced in "junk" it is 1.34 silver dimes or .. about 14 cents and has been on a downward trend for a long time.


Offline hanzel

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2011, 09:08:30 AM »

Sunshine Mint is still operational and minting silver and gold.

http://www.sunshinemint.com/


The real funny part of the raid is that Sunshine Mint makes blanks for the US Mint to make Silver Eagles

Offline hanzel

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2011, 09:13:09 AM »
I recently bought some silver from a local coin shop and what I found disturbing is that you have to pay sales tax on it.  That's a 8 3/4% mark up over the selling price, if you buy n ebay most likely you won't have to pay sales tax. 

In Texas you have to purchase over $1000 for it to be tax exempt.

Offline hanzel

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2011, 09:22:45 AM »
The aforementioned raid is one of the reasons the AOCS Barter Medallions should never be referred to as 'coins.' For one thing, they are by definition, not coins. One of the qualifications of being a coin is that it was or is legal tender.

Thank you for the good laugh this morning TexDaddy ( remember there are some people that disagree about the legal use of the word "coin" when talking about non governmental produced medallions and rounds )

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2011, 09:40:57 AM »
Thank you for the good laugh this morning TexDaddy ( remember there are some people that disagree about the legal use of the word "coin" when talking about non governmental produced medallions and rounds )
I am not addressing the legal use. I refer to the dictionary definition of a coin. In both dictionarys I use, an old Webster's collegiate and the Random House Unabridged 2nd edtion. A coin is "a piece of metal stamped and issued by the authority of a government for use as money."

The word coin has other meanings, such as minting, creating a word, etc., but none encompass an object such as the AOCS barter medallions.

Offline Crash

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2011, 10:16:00 AM »
Actually, I haven't found anywhere on the AOCS site that calls them anything other than barter medallions. The TSP shop does have them listed under coins, though. The AOCS website might call them coins somewhere, but I have not found it.

Bottom of the page here: http://www.opencurrency.com/ under "Updates". AOCS has several websites. This is one of them.

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2011, 10:24:51 AM »
Bottom of the page here: http://www.opencurrency.com/ under "Updates". AOCS has several websites. This is one of them.
Thanks for that link. I looked at that link provided under updates. It is to Jack's blog entry announcing the TSP rounds. It is Jack calling them coins, not the AOCS in the only place I see the word 'coin.'

I have looked at at least 3 of their websites, trying to figure out how far I want to go into this idea of barter medallions. So far, I support the cause intellectually, but remain on the fence so far as action.

Offline Fyrekat

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2011, 11:57:40 AM »
I always like to get the sheeple at work myself.  I offer 15x face value right now for any pre 64 coins they find in the machines.  But since the value has gone up so much the machines don't produce them anymore.  Still, they could care less what it's worth since it's too much trouble.  Why not get it for a big discount and make it easy for them.

Bought 2 64 Kennedys for 2$ each a few years ago, now they're worth over 10$.

Hunting at yard sales is also good.  I've found coin silver silverware etc... as well.  As long as it's marked you can usually make some money on it too.  I sell those online and buy coins with it.

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2011, 12:08:00 PM »
...I've found coin silver silverware etc... as well.  As long as it's marked you can usually make some money on it too.  I sell those online and buy coins with it.
Coin silver or sterling silver, either one, can often be found at a very good price. Personally, I don't find it as 'fun' as coins, but without doubt, there is money to be made there.

Historical note: Paul Revere and other American silversmiths melted silver coins for their work to avoid the British tax on sterling silver. Of course you know, coin silver is 90% while sterling is 92.5%.

Offline Crash

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2011, 02:35:35 PM »
I have a lot of barter medallions because they're usually 1 oz or fractionals and they're .999 gold, silver or copper. I have 1/20th oz all the way up to 1 oz. In a SHTF scenario, these will come in handy for barter. The smaller rounds will be an easy trade for small ticket items and the copper ones will too.

Bottom line is, you'll still have the value of the metal, no matter what. With silver at $33.95 and about to pass $34, they're a good thing to have. Right now, I've made more than double my money back in one year. Predictions are as high as $1000 an oz silver by 2012.

Just a thought.

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2011, 02:44:54 PM »
...Predictions are as high as $1000 an oz silver by 2012...
This made me think of one of my all time favorite videos. I have posted it before, but I think it bears repeating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FywT-txGuss#

Offline Crash

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2011, 10:22:29 PM »
Great video and truthful. Thanks for reposting it. I'd never seen it.

Offline ag2

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Re: Silver Newbie. Not sure how to proceed
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2011, 01:21:14 PM »
Tamo and Crash,

Thanks for the introduction to the story of the raid.  I googled and read a few accounts.  It turns my stomach.  Just another of kajillions of examples of gubberment's abuse of power.  It should not surprise me, but I still needed to take my virtual BP meds.

Tex,
Thanks for the video.  Good info.