Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats

[Nicodemus]

Oh man... How many chickens have come home to roost over this? That was a great article, Serenity, thanks for the link!

[Mr. Bill]

http://www.myearthgarden.com/2011/03/how-the-dervaes-family-stole-my-victory-garden/

[moderator]
Darn -- okay, I just removed "Dervaes" fron our censored words list, because it was "correcting" the above link with an ® symbol.  I guess that joke is done. :'(
[/moderator]

[Morning Sunshine]

the link worked for me when I clicked it - even with the ® symbol.

[Nicodemus]

the link worked for me when I clicked it - even with the ® symbol.

It worked for me as well.

[Mr. Bill]

the link worked for me when I clicked it - even with the ® symbol.

I got "Page not found" but it redirected to the site's homepage where this article is currently at the top.

[Morning Sunshine]

ah, right, I forgot that.  it did work, kind of. so I thought that it had

[Nicodemus]

Apparently they removed the the direct link to the blog post about Plagiarism after they were busted for Plagiarism. So here's a direct link to What is Plagiarism written by Justin Dervaes.

Plagiarism... There, I wrote it again.

I'm sure they'll kill it when they see it continuing to get hits.

[Dainty]

The post has been removed.

 

[fritz_monroe]

I certainly hope that he goes after them legally.  They want to pull there crap, they deserve everything they get.

[Sporadic_E]

Who are they getting their legal advice from or are they making this shit up as they go along? What baffles me is that they had no forethought of how this could possibly go south on them. I can see the entire family sitting around the dinner table discussing with one another how they must protect their interest for the good of the family.

[Sister Wolf]

Who are they getting their legal advice from or are they making this shit up as they go along? What baffles me is that they had no forethought of how this could possibly go south on them. I can see the entire family sitting around the dinner table discussing with one another how they must protect their interest for the good of the family.

I get the weird impression that Anais & Justin are really the only ones who have bought into Jules' BS.  Further, I get the impression that Anais is Jules' avenging angel.  She's the only really dangerous one in that family, I think.  Justin strikes me as the type who just wants to garden and totally go inside of himself and have nothing to do with the rest of the world.  Jordanne strikes me as the sweet artist who doesn't agree with ANYTHING that is happening, but feels relegated to internalizing her pain and frustration rather than leave the family.  Jules is insanity personified.  Anais scares me, though.  I get the distinct impression that she KNOWS how insane this is, and that she's the driving force behind the destruction of others, of her family, and of herself REGARDLESS of the insanity-level.  I always picture her smirking when I think about this.  She reminds me of Jim Taggart.

[Calista]

I felt a creepy, Jim-Jones vibe from reading this September 2010 interview with Anais about her being home-schooled:

http://whateverstateiam.com/2010/09/21/ask-the-grad-anais-dervaes/

The kicker is this sentence near the end:

"...our network of sites serves as an inspiration for millions of people interested in starting their own urban homesteads and living a more simple life."

Talk about hypocritical. We'll "inspire" you to start your own u.h. but we'll sue your ass if you use our terminology. 

[Sister Wolf]

Talk about hypocritical. We'll "inspire" you to start your own u.h. but we'll sue your ass if you use our terminology. 

That's the thing.  It isn't their terminology.  It never was.

[Sporadic_E]

It is like putting copyright on the sun, moon or stars. Instead they are destined to dwell in darkness.

[Thox Spuddy]

So did the D@ family respond to the Feb 25th deadline?

[TexDaddy]

I felt a creepy, Jim-Jones vibe from reading this September 2010 interview with Anais about her being home-schooled:

http://whateverstateiam.com/2010/09/21/ask-the-grad-anais-dervaes/...

Something I find a little creepy. In the link above, she states she was 5 yrs old in 1979. That makes her like 37 years old today. Later she states, "Today, I am blessed to live and help out on my family’s one-fifth acre micro farm in Pasadena, Ca."

Personally, I will be very disappointed if any of my children have not already found there own way well before they reach this age.

Don't get me wrong, there are situations where multiple generations live together for very pratical reasons, and of course, each to his own way. Upon reading her account, I don't get the feeling this is the case here.

[Morning Sunshine]

Something I find a little creepy. In the link above, she states she was 5 yrs old in 1979. That makes her like 37 years old today. Later she states, "Today, I am blessed to live and help out on my family’s one-fifth acre micro farm in Pasadena, Ca."

Personally, I will be very disappointed if any of my children have not already found there own way well before they reach this age.

Don't get me wrong, there are situations where multiple generations live together for very pratical reasons, and of course, each to his own way. Upon reading her account, I don't get the feeling this is the case here.

yeah, this ^^^

[Oil Lady]

Upon examining their trademark paperwork, I wonder if the entire trademark can be declared invalid based upon the incorrect (and fraudulent?) claims they made IN WRITING when they filed that paperwork. According to their trademark paperwork, the "first use anywhere" of the phrase "urban homestead" was back in the year 2002.

First Use Anywhere:  12/1/2002

First Use In Commerce:  1/1/2003

There are mountains and mountains of evidence that the phrase has been in use in governmental circles going back to the 1960's with urban renewal movements, and it was (and still is) printed on actual governmental forms from the 1970's where the phrase "urban homestead" can be found in various check-off boxes (are they going to issue cease and desist letters to the federal government and to various state governments for printing those forms?). And there are law books going as far back as the 1920's and even 1876 that refer to urban homesteads. So I think that due to the fallacious information on their paperwork, a judge would probably express little or no reservation over nullifying their trademark.

[NotAGrasshopper]

@OilLady:  The trademark paperwork refers to *their* "use anywhere" of the mark in connection to the goods/services for which they want to use the mark.  It does not refer to anyone else's use, nor does it refer to uses of the term in connection with goods/services other than what they claim (namely educational services).

Not defending, just clarifying.

[Oil Lady]

@OilLady:  The trademark paperwork refers to *their* "use anywhere" of the mark in connection to the goods/services for which they want to use the mark.  It does not refer to anyone else's use, nor does it refer to uses of the term in connection with goods/services other than what they claim (namely educational services).

Not defending, just clarifying.

Understood. But if that's the case, then it sounds like they are splitting both ends against the middle. And so they cannot have it both ways. They can't on the one hand say "we're only referring to urban homesteading according to our definition" but then turn around and say "no one can use the phrase urban homesteading when referring to anything that remotely resembles what we do without without attributing it to us." That kind of hair-splitting in a legal setting would only work against them as far as pushing to the limits the general patience of a judge. If you want to throw out the current government forms available for filing for urban homestead status, and if you likewise want to throw out the many legal text books going all the way back to 1876 which speak copiously about urban homesteading, and thus stick exclusively with the concept of sustainable agriculture done on the premises of a private residence in an urban (or suburban) setting, there is still precedent going back to the 1970's as evidenced in the oft-cited-in-this-thread news items from Mother Earth News. Therefore, the Dervaeses are in no way the first to use the term in that manner. It is my worthless layman's opinion that they just don't have a legal leg to stand on as far as defending the validity and perpetuity of their never-should-have-been-granted trademark(s).

[Greywolf27]

I don't know who the judge or lawyer is/was that approved their claims from the get go... but this is Kalifornia... the land of suing for anything and everything.  The judge/lawyer may have a soft spot in their heart for what the D's are doing.... maybe he/she owed them a favor...

TBH, this has really not affected me in anyway... other then some amusement in reading.

[TxMom]

Kind find the search terms I used before.  Somewhere I saw that they tried to trademark it earlier but was turned down.  Later they found someone trademarked "Urban Home" and used that to get their "urban homestead"

[buffalojustice]

Does no one here have access to a trademark lawyer? I found this http://www.intelproplaw.com/Forum/Forum.cgi?board=trademark;action=display;num=1086291275 and it appears that this case is a no brainer. I just don't have three hundred, times two plus any counter action associated costs, to throw down on principle. Maybe a 'pass the hat' situation if people are really that concerned about it. I don't think the trademarks would hold up under the extra scrutiny. While there is ample proof that urban homestead/ing has been used long before the Dbags there is also ample roof that people have been "educating" others about it long before them as well. They may have "first commercial use" within their definition but it's quite clear that a company has already used the term, albeit for clothing, and had it registered at one time as well.

[Nicodemus]

The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) has taken on the case specifically on behalf of Kelly Coyne and Erik Knutzen, authors of The Urban Homestead: Your Guide to Self-Sufficient Living in the Heart of the City, and more broadly anyone who was affected by the DI takedown notices that were sent to FaceBook etc. So, if you feel like you would like to pass the hat or put some money into the hat, The EFF accepts donations.

Read the pdf copy of the letter from the EFF to the Dervaes Institute here.

Disclaimer: I'm not connected to the EFF in any way and I'm not trying to raise funds for them.

[buffalojustice]

I read that and I love it too. I was referring to the cancellation of the trademark as a whole. If this is what the  EFF is working on then great. I think the whole thing should be challenged as the reference to urban homestead/ing is a general definition of something people have been doing for at least a century and generally not a reference to the D's business. They did screw up because I used to tell people to check out the Dervaes when talking about UH and now I shy away from the term hoping the person will never find the Dervaes. Hopefully thousands of others will do the same and maybe then Jules will pull his head out of his ass and give it up. I'm not saying that I wish them any hardship but if this downs them then oh well, shouldn't have been such a poopy doo doo head! I shouldn't care so much since I live in suburbia and thus my plans are Suburban Homesteading but it just sucks that these guys stole an entire terminology from the community they say they support.

 I am buying The Urban Homestead: Your Guide to Self-Sufficient Living in the Heart of the City to help support them and I don't care if it's good or bad, I bet it's good though.

[archer]

I am buying The Urban Homestead: Your Guide to Self-Sufficient Living in the Heart of the City to help support them and I don't care if it's good or bad, I bet it's good though.

I bought it recently, half done. Pretty good.

[Thox Spuddy]

I also bought their book and am impressed the way they have infused a light-heartedness into potentially stuffy topics. The dumpster diving content is great reading.

[Calista]

Another good analysis of the situation over at Transition US:

http://transitionus.org/blog/urban-homesteading

Excerpt: "It is ironic that the Dervaes' homestead project originated long ago in a desire to access GMO-free food.  Now they have become, in effect, the GMO of the L.A. Green Scene.  They are attempting to patent the "seed," so that no one else is allowed to touch it without paying royalties.  Just like Monsanto, they are sic-ing their attorneys on people who are working publicly in good faith to do the right thing.  (For goodness sake, they even sent an attorney letter to a public library!)

Like Monsanto, they are attempting to patent what is essentially part of the "germoplasm" of The Great Turning.  They are attempting to claim certain long-standing knowledge -- knowledge that, up until a mere 60 or so years ago, was known to all as the basic stuffs of living -- and call it their own invention.  These are the tactics of corporate agribusiness --"

[Nicodemus]

That's an interesting Blog Post and spot on.

Thanks for the link.

[MrThirteen]

I just trademarked "Thirteen"  j/k.... I wish I could actually, not for monetary reason, just to say "I own the trademark" LOL.  Badge of honor thing.  But now back to seriousness.

I too wonder if the EFF will publish the "D" families response to their request.  I first heard of this in one of Jack's posts, he only referenced it but didn't say anything about it other than "we all know..."  Well I didn't know but an easy search made it possible to find out.

I think the best thing to do is. A: Do not support thier websites, do not link anything for them, however we should support those they directly attacked.  I too, am considering buying the book mentioned in the EFF letter.

I hope the CAlifungus doesn't get me.  I live here too but as more and more liberties are taken away I am thinking it's time to move.

Maybe I can take Sister Wolf & Archer with me. (Only two I have seen posting so far that live here, I know there are others.)

I wanted to end this post with 13 repeats of the said trademarked phrase, but that would be childish and might bring light to their cause more, which is the last thing I want.  SO I'll just sign off.