Author Topic: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats  (Read 136515 times)

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #120 on: February 18, 2011, 06:22:02 PM »
Welll... You could post a link to it instead of actually posting it.  They cannot (and have no right to) own links.  If you're not on the Book, would you like me to do that for ya on the "Take Back Urban Homesteading" page?

Offline Nicodemus

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #121 on: February 18, 2011, 06:25:31 PM »
Welll... You could post a link to it instead of actually posting it.  They cannot (and have no right to) own links.  If you're not on the Book, would you like me to do that for ya on the "Take Back Urban Homesteading" page?

If it were to somehow wind up like that, I wouldn't mind as long as folks weren't making cash on it and other legalese type things... OMG, I sound like a Dervaes!  :D

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #122 on: February 18, 2011, 06:26:11 PM »
Hmmm... Maybe a better move would be to invite Jamie to become a member of TSP.

Offline jtcweb

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #123 on: February 18, 2011, 07:08:29 PM »
Interesting I was able to find the phrase "Mixed Rural and Urban Homestead" as a article title published way back on Aug 20, 1875.  The article was in The Central Law Journal and deals with the legal and tax issues of having a homestead inside an incorporated town.

In May/June 1901 issue of The American Law Review the differences in the law between the "rural homestead" and the "urban homestead" is explained.

There is also a dissertation published in 1996 about "Urban Homesteads" in the west and how they go back to FDR's New Deal in 1933.  You can view the citation and abstract of this dissertation at http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=739543751&Fmt=2&RQT=309&VName=PQD

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #124 on: February 18, 2011, 08:21:45 PM »
Fixed.



My wife looked at that partially obscured ® at upper right, and thought it was a hammer and sickle. :D

That is seriously great work, Nicodemus!

Interesting I was able to find the phrase "Mixed Rural and Urban Homestead" as a article title published way back on Aug 20, 1875. ...

Good research!  Thanks.

Offline Nicodemus

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #125 on: February 18, 2011, 08:26:06 PM »
Thanks Mr. Bill!

Offline Nicodemus

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #126 on: February 18, 2011, 08:33:01 PM »
Interesting I was able to find the phrase "Mixed Rural and Urban Homestead" as a article title published way back on Aug 20, 1875.  The article was in The Central Law Journal and deals with the legal and tax issues of having a homestead inside an incorporated town.

In May/June 1901 issue of The American Law Review the differences in the law between the "rural homestead" and the "urban homestead" is explained.

There is also a dissertation published in 1996 about "Urban Homesteads" in the west and how they go back to FDR's New Deal in 1933.  You can view the citation and abstract of this dissertation at http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=739543751&Fmt=2&RQT=309&VName=PQD

That's some great info jtcweb. When you get a chance, please stop by the The Front Porch>Intro Thread and Introduce yourself to the forums.

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #127 on: February 18, 2011, 09:13:36 PM »
Was thinking about this, and for you Dr. Horrible fans, do you remember when he kills Penny?  That's what the P2F folks remind me of right now.

For those of you who have no idea... here's a little spoiler.

Dr. Horrible has two aims in life - to be accepted into the ELOE (Evil League Of Evil - headed by Bad Horse, the thoroughbred of sin) and to make Penny fall in love with him.  At first, the ELoE is more important, but Penny becomes the more important of the two goals eventually.  So when Dr. Horrible goes to kill Penny's annoying boyfriend (Captain Hammer!), he accidentally gets Penny killed instead.  He's accepted into the ELoE, but he loses what kept him going in the first place.

P2F killed their Penny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaXBu5unFCQ#

Here lies everything.
The world I wanted, at my feet.
My victory's complete.
So hail to the king...
Arise and see.

So your world's benign?
So you think justice has a voice?
And we all have a choice?
Now your world is mine
And I am fine...

Now the nightmare's real
Now Dr. Horrible is here
To make you quake with fear
To make the whole world kneel.
And I won't feel....
A thing.


Offline Nicodemus

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #128 on: February 18, 2011, 09:18:05 PM »
I loved Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog, and I think that you're right on with that comparison/analogy, Sis.

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #129 on: February 18, 2011, 09:21:04 PM »
I loved Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog, and I think that you're right on with that comparison/analogy, Sis.

I loved it too (it's on Netflix instant view now, btw :D ).  And thanks.  Totally unrelated, but I think dr. horrible's song, "Slipping" is one of the best modern social awareness songs ever written.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #130 on: February 18, 2011, 09:51:51 PM »
A bit of news: According to BoingBoing, the Electronic Frontier Foundation is representing Kelly Coyne and Erik Knutzen in their dispute vs the Dervaes over the title of their "Urban Homesteading" book.

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #131 on: February 18, 2011, 11:07:06 PM »
I'm glad the EFF is taking on their case, Kelly Coyne and Erik Knutzen, did nothing wrong.
They began work on their book in the spring of 2007 and published in 2008.

Offline chrisdfw

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #132 on: February 18, 2011, 11:39:30 PM »
A bit of news: According to BoingBoing, the Electronic Frontier Foundation is representing Kelly Coyne and Erik Knutzen in their dispute vs the De®vaes over the title of their "Urban Homesteading" book.


That is great news, the best thing when confronted by a bully is to punch them in the face. Figuratively of course...

Offline thezoo

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #133 on: February 19, 2011, 02:41:49 AM »

  That awesome, your good at graffic arts man :happydance:

Offline Nicodemus

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #134 on: February 19, 2011, 05:57:15 AM »
A bit of news: According to BoingBoing, the Electronic Frontier Foundation is representing Kelly Coyne and Erik Knutzen in their dispute vs the De®vaes over the title of their "Urban Homesteading" book.

Awesome! I like this group founded on the concept of "[battling] for digital freedom in the courts". Coyne, Knutzen and their publisher sell electronic versions of the book and web based bookstores, but I feel like the EFF is kind of defending old school paper print against digital encroachment as well.

Offline Nicodemus

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #135 on: February 19, 2011, 05:57:46 AM »
  That awesome, your good at graffic arts man :happydance:

Thanks, thezoo!

Offline Trash

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #136 on: February 19, 2011, 09:18:01 AM »
I too am still quite ticked off a tthe BS. They claim to be a non-profit yet they have all the sideline businesses and if you check thier website they are adding more sidelines. So not only are they f'n with trademarks. They are prob f'n the IRS being a nonprofit.. hmmm
Beginning to see SCAM.. Much like the GREEN of Begley a few years ago..

Trash.
BTW it hit close to home with the Denver Urban Homesteaders Gorup gettin shut down.. Trash is pissed

Offline Dawgus

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #137 on: February 20, 2011, 11:25:52 AM »
 Like I said in an earlier post in this thread, they have not only angered me, but also inspired me. 2011lbs for 2011. They aren't that impressive anymore...

Offline OKGranny

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #138 on: February 20, 2011, 11:28:24 AM »
This is going to be a fun summer, watching the pounds from Dawgus' garden add up.

Offline Nicodemus

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #139 on: February 20, 2011, 11:53:08 AM »
That's great Dawgus. Keep us informed on your progress!

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #140 on: February 20, 2011, 12:08:33 PM »
Like I said in an earlier post in this thread, they have not only angered me, but also inspired me. 2011lbs for 2011. They aren't that impressive anymore...

can you count egg weight in that number?  I might try to measure ours this year too.


maybe not.  my gardening progress thus far is delight that SOMETHING actually gave us fruit and I have not killed everything with my black thumb.  weigh-in might just depress me.

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #141 on: February 20, 2011, 12:13:43 PM »
can you count egg weight in that number?...
I would. While not 'produce' per se, it is produce of your homestead.

I am not up to the point where I weigh in. I also might become depressed at this point, although those watermelons last year were very good and would have gotten the weight up pretty well. Faster than the lettuce anyway.  :D

Offline Dawgus

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #142 on: February 20, 2011, 12:17:55 PM »
@ Morning Sunshine- We count eggs, chicken, fruits, and vegetables....anything that is grown, raised,and butchered here at home. I don't count apple we get from next door, or peaches from my friends place. Last year was just under 1100lbs total from our one acre. 910 more to go this year!  ;D

Offline Sporadic_E

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #143 on: February 20, 2011, 01:11:20 PM »
I know nobody cares but it would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall when the De®vaes family had a sit down to come to this decision. It simply goes to show that from a business point of view, every choice you make has ramifications

Offline hanzel

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #144 on: February 20, 2011, 08:23:20 PM »
I think I found a loophole  (but need an atty Tx. atty to confirm )

Reading over what they claim is there copyright I noticed that all the terms are capitalized.  When reading over Texas property laws, http://www.law.ttu.edu/lawlibrary/library/research/bapcpa_library/texas-property-code.htm

"§ 41.005. VOLUNTARY DESIGNATION OF HOMESTEAD

(a) If a rural homestead of a family is part of one or more parcels containing a total of more than 200 acres, the head of the family and, if married, that person's spouse may voluntarily designate not more than 200 acres of the property as the homestead. If a rural homestead of a single adult person, not otherwise entitled to a homestead, is part of one or more parcels containing a total of more than 100 acres, the person may voluntarily designate not more than 100 acres of the property as the homestead.

(b) If an urban homestead of a family, or an urban homestead of a single adult person not otherwise entitled to a homestead, is part of one or more contiguous lots containing a total of more than 10 acres, the head of the family and, if married, that person's spouse or the single adult person, as applicable, may voluntarily designate not more than 10 acres of the property as the homestead. "

or read over the TX Affidavit of Urban Homestead and Designation of Homestead or "CREDITOR CLAIMS IN PROBATE, HOMESTEAD, EXEMPT PROPERTY, ALLOWANCES, SALES OF PROBATE PROPERTY AND LIABILITY OF PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE FOR TAXES".  I can keep going since it appears the words appear a lot in Texas Law and Texas history

Texas law does not capitalize the whole words. So .... if I do not capitalize the complete words as in their cease and desist, then I am only referring to Texas law and not their claim to a copyright.  I think a state law counters any copyright claim.

To paraphrase Davy Crockett, You may all go to Hell, I am in Texas !

( they may also want to read over Federal law also as in, 24 CFR 30.30 - Urban Homestead violations and send Obama a copy of their cease and desist also )

Since they are in California, they should have research the Compac computer company and its claim against Compaq Computer Company and see how sometimes a claim can backfire on you.


Offline Woody Borghini

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #145 on: February 20, 2011, 08:54:46 PM »
Hey. How about this?:

I am not an advocate for anyone trademarking common words. And I tend to be along the lines of people on this forum. But I finally took the 3 minutes to read the letter that Mr. Durvaes wrote, at the page linked below, and I have to ask for some more clarity on the anti-Durvaes movement.
It seems to me that the gist of the letter is to ask people to give them due credit when referencing their work: "When using a phrase listed above to refer to the work of the Dervaes Institute, proper trademark usage should include. . ."

Please let me know if I am missing something.
The way I see it: unless we are all getting sued over this, it is a divide in our community that is not worth the discord it causes. It is the wrong fight to pick. Admittedly, I do know very little about the family and their "institution" or whatever. But it seems like they are better in our corner, than being shut down by the very people who share their core ideals.

I'm not opposed to being wrong. Please help me to understand if my interpretation is not accurate.

Thanks!
Peace,
Woody

http://urbanhomestead.org/journal/2011/02/16/fyi-urban-homestead-trademark-matter/

Offline Nicodemus

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #146 on: February 20, 2011, 09:16:46 PM »
If you read the whole thing it suggests that the term "Urban Homestead" should not be used UNLESS you are talking about the De®vaes Institute and its work. And when used to talk about the work of the Dervaes Institute they must be credited.

It's made to sound fluffy but it's still a Cease and Desist letter.

From the notice:
"If your use of one of these phrases is not to specifically identify products or services from the De®vaes Institute, then it would be proper to use generic terms to replace the registered trademark you are using. For example, when discussing general homesteading or other people’s projects, they should be referred to using terms such as ‘modern homesteading,’ ‘urban sustainability projects,’ or similar descriptions." emphasis added by me

Offline LvsChant

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #147 on: February 20, 2011, 09:48:56 PM »
Woody,

I do agree that we really don't need to waste our energy on something like this... far better to get along with our own preps and not worry about this issue overmuch. However, there is a lot of discussion about how the Dervaes family have acted.

There seems to be no doubt that they are taking an active approach in trying to stop anyone from using their registered trademarks unless it is 1) used to refer to their activities and 2) giving them credit for the registered trademark. (see Nic's post above)

If the terms they had laid claim to were all specifically related to their business, no one would probably have much to say about it. I think the big issue is their claim to the particular phrases: "Urban Homestead" and "Urban Homesteading", which have been used by countless individuals over the course of many years, in blogs, in forums, in books, in news reporting...

Several individuals and groups have been harmed already by actions taken by the Dervaes family in this situation. Because of them, forums that used those terms have been shut down. Books using those terms have been attacked and loss of sales have no doubt resulted. If they registered the trademark and allowed any well-meaning person to use it (as Jack mentioned in his podcast) in order to protect it for everyone, they would have been lauded for their actions. Unfortunately, that isn't the route they have taken...

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #148 on: February 20, 2011, 09:58:32 PM »
Good one hanzel. I can't wait until they send the State of Texas a cease and desist letter. I would love to see the reaction to that.

...To paraphrase Davy Crockett, You may all go to Hell, I am in Texas !...
Good ol' Davy. Had a way with words.  ;)

Offline Amator

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #149 on: February 20, 2011, 09:58:58 PM »
+1 on everything LVS is saying.

Also, you have to keep in mind that the Dervaes' contacted Facebook and had the FB pages removed of the 16 people/groups they sent their C&D letter to.  This is not "I just want to protect my niche" this is an offensive action.  Also many people are upset because they are trying to lock down common terms used by hundreds of people to describe their lifestyle.  

They fought the patent & trademark office for years on these trademarks...they had to appeal the denials of trademark several times before it was finally granted.  Then they decided to go after a few small-timers.  Well, the homestead/prepper/etc community is small enough that we can punish them severely and we are.