Author Topic: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats  (Read 140145 times)

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #180 on: February 22, 2011, 02:22:38 PM »
In case anyone hasn't seen it yet, EFF sent their own cease and desist letter.

https://www.eff.org/files/LTTDervaes.pdf

Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!  :D

Stick that in your garden and grow it, Jules! 

I hope they comply immediately.  I really do.

Offline chrisdfw

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #181 on: February 22, 2011, 02:24:59 PM »
Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!  :D

Stick that in your garden and grow it, Jules! 

I hope they comply immediately.  I really do.

Is your sensitive side coming out?

You're nicer than me, I hope they get sued into oblivion, I don't like bullies.

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #182 on: February 22, 2011, 02:33:05 PM »
Is your sensitive side coming out?

You're nicer than me, I hope they get sued into oblivion, I don't like bullies.

The reason I hope they comply immediately has nothing to do with my hope for mercy on their behalf.  ;)  I want folks who are suffering due to the Dervaes' C&D letters to stop suffering immediately.  If this is drawn into a legal battle, the Dervaeses will be forced (even if it's a self-imposed force) to be even more stubborn about hurting the urban homesteading movement and the people involved.  Things will become darker before they become brighter if we go down that path.

If they refuse to comply, then yeah, I hope they are sued into oblivion as well.  I hope they lose everything they've worked for, and that their business suffers mortal wounds (if it hasn't already).

The only issue I have going forward is that when you go to war, there is collateral damage.  I'm not in the path, and won't be a part of that collateral damage, but I know folks who are and who will be.  I don't want anybody else's business to suffer any more than it already has due to these jerks waving their smelly asses in the air.

Offline archer

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #183 on: February 22, 2011, 02:34:04 PM »
Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!  :D

Stick that in your garden and grow it, Jules!  

I hope they comply immediately.  I really do.

I hope they fight it, then loose, and have to pay lots of $ for fines/fees....

Offline archer

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #184 on: February 22, 2011, 02:35:26 PM »
The reason I hope they comply immediately has nothing to do with my hope for mercy on their behalf.  ;)  I want folks who are suffering due to the De®vaes' C&D letters to stop suffering immediately.  If this is drawn into a legal battle, the Dervaeses will be forced (even if it's a self-imposed force) to be even more stubborn about hurting the urban homesteading movement and the people involved.  Things will become darker before they become brighter if we go down that path.

If they refuse to comply, then yeah, I hope they are sued into oblivion as well.  I hope they lose everything they've worked for, and that their business suffers mortal wounds (if it hasn't already).

The only issue I have going forward is that when you go to war, there is collateral damage.  I'm not in the path, and won't be a part of that collateral damage, but I know folks who are and who will be.  I don't want anybody else's business to suffer any more than it already has due to these jerks waving their smelly asses in the air.

Very good points SisW... The collateral damage is growing. It needs to end.

Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #185 on: February 22, 2011, 02:37:09 PM »
Is your sensitive side coming out?

You're nicer than me, I hope they get sued into oblivion, I don't like bullies.
Me too.  I hate bullies too, but I also hate hypocrites, they are both.  I hope all this negative karma that they are heaping upon the rest of the urban homesteaders (oh God, I typed those words) back to bite them in the ass.  

But Sis has a great point.  Settling it quickly will be the least painful for all the small businesses that have been hurt.

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #186 on: February 22, 2011, 02:43:24 PM »
The reason I hope they comply immediately has nothing to do with my hope for mercy on their behalf.  ;)  I want folks who are suffering due to the De®vaes' C&D letters to stop suffering immediately.  If this is drawn into a legal battle, the Dervaeses will be forced (even if it's a self-imposed force) to be even more stubborn about hurting the urban homesteading movement and the people involved.  Things will become darker before they become brighter if we go down that path.

If they refuse to comply, then yeah, I hope they are sued into oblivion as well.  I hope they lose everything they've worked for, and that their business suffers mortal wounds (if it hasn't already).

The only issue I have going forward is that when you go to war, there is collateral damage.  I'm not in the path, and won't be a part of that collateral damage, but I know folks who are and who will be.  I don't want anybody else's business to suffer any more than it already has due to these jerks waving their smelly asses in the air.

Consider my hope for mercy as thus:

This is just me, sitting on my mount, at the top of a hill, watching the enemy charge when they're obviously outnumbered and do not have the high ground. I look out on the field and I see friends and family and those I've fought with and worked for for the last two years, and I know that some of them (not many, but even one is too many) will suffer and ultimately die.  So I'm sitting here staring at the enemy, chanting, "turn around, turn around, turn around, turn around.  Damn you, why don't you retreat?"

I hate destruction.  I hate war.  I'll destroy something, or participate in war, if I see it as an absolute necessity, but it's never my aim, and I do not take pride in it any more than a respectful hunter would take pride in putting down a mad dog who has hunted with him in the past.  It's a distasteful thing, regardless of how necessary it is for the protection of the rest of our pack and for our own protection as well.

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #187 on: February 22, 2011, 03:03:13 PM »
Sis, I mostly totally agree with you, except on one minor point. This is not a rabid dog being put down. The condition is in no way the animal's fault. This was a premeditated, intentional immoral act by people who should have known better.

Travis was very sad and hurt when he had to shoot Ol' Yeller. He had no problem killing the ones who raided his family's homestead and took him, his little brother and their friend hostage. (from Savage Sam, son of Ol' Yeller.)

Collateral damage is always very sad. Any collateral damage must be laid at the feet of this family.

Offline Roswell

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #188 on: February 22, 2011, 03:39:31 PM »
I like to use huomorous images to convey my point as it lightens the mood.  :D


Payback is a bitch!
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 06:56:37 PM by Roswell »

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #189 on: February 22, 2011, 06:16:28 PM »
Sis, I mostly totally agree with you, except on one minor point. This is not a rabid dog being put down. The condition is in no way the animal's fault. This was a premeditated, intentional immoral act by people who should have known better.

Travis was very sad and hurt when he had to shoot Ol' Yeller. He had no problem killing the ones who raided his family's homestead and took him, his little brother and their friend hostage. (from Savage Sam, son of Ol' Yeller.)

Collateral damage is always very sad. Any collateral damage must be laid at the feet of this family.

I thought about rabies not being the fault of the animal when I wrote it, but I couldn't think of a more appropriate metaphor.  They're acting completely mad (as in crazy/insane) and I still don't "get it".  It's like there's something wrong with their collective brains.

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #190 on: February 22, 2011, 06:28:17 PM »
...They're acting completely mad (as in crazy/insane) and I still don't "get it".  It's like there's something wrong with their collective brains.
Now this, I totally agree with.

I do hope they backdown. And, back to your military analogy, if not, no quarter.

Offline joeinwv

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #191 on: February 22, 2011, 06:31:53 PM »
I thought about rabies not being the fault of the animal when I wrote it, but I couldn't think of a more appropriate metaphor.  They're acting completely mad (as in crazy/insane) and I still don't "get it".  It's like there's something wrong with their collective brains.
This may be a weird comparison, but it may apply. I admit to watching American Chopper on Discovery. This is the Teutul family, with Paul Sr & Jr's rocky relationship being the focus. Over time this devolved and now they have separate companies and are suing one another.

A great example of a couple blue collar guys who built up a company from nothing into a multimillion dollar empire. At which point, greed and avarice overcame common sense. Everyone thinks they are right and a little money becomes more important than family.

Back to the topic at hand, they may truly think they have a legitimate and legally defensible position. So they really feel that their intellectual property is being stolen. With those feelings involved, logic goes out the window.

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #192 on: February 22, 2011, 06:52:20 PM »
I just read in the San Francisco chronicle that they don't even have a lawyer.  So the whole, "maybe they got bad legal advice" excuse just went out the window.  They did this without lawyering up.  On their own.  No advice.

<shaking my head in disgust>

Offline Nicodemus

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #193 on: February 22, 2011, 06:56:24 PM »
This may be a weird comparison, but it may apply. I admit to watching American Chopper on Discovery. This is the Teutul family, with Paul Sr & Jr's rocky relationship being the focus. Over time this devolved and now they have separate companies and are suing one another.

That's a pretty good comparison. It's a shame to watch things devolve as they did on "American Chopper".

There is some kind of mental change that occurs when so many people applaud a person's every move on a constant basis. It seems to infer some kind of detached mindset where the individual gets a sense that they can do no wrong and so there is no prolonged period of introspection and inspection of a move that will be made. When the inevitable fall occurs the individual clings to a delusional self righteous sense of correctness. Unfortunately, a lot of the people around them, who originally applauded them, only exacerbate the situation by refusing to see the error and fail to offer wise counsel. Not that their counsel would be headed of course.

I think it's also a little bit of the reason people like to see the overconfident kicked in the pants sometimes.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 07:06:16 PM by Nicodemus »

Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #194 on: February 22, 2011, 07:01:52 PM »
I just read in the San Francisco chronicle that they don't even have a lawyer.  So the whole, "maybe they got bad legal advice" excuse just went out the window.  They did this without lawyering up.  On their own.  No advice.

<shaking my head in disgust>
Really???  Wow!  Just amazing what some people do.

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #195 on: February 22, 2011, 07:05:59 PM »
...So they really feel that their intellectual property is being stolen. With those feelings involved, logic goes out the window.
Well, they are apparently deluded. As brought to our attention by hanzel, the term is part of Texas state law. The Texas Property Code Statutes, Chapter 41.005 hanzel refers us to, where the term urban homestead appears, became effective 08/31/1987 according to the link provided and last amended effective 01/01/2000. Since these people didn't even buy the home they stead until 1998, it is hard to believe they can claim 'intellectual property.'

I just read in the San Francisco chronicle that they don't even have a lawyer.  So the whole, "maybe they got bad legal advice" excuse just went out the window.  They did this without lawyering up.  On their own.  No advice.

<shaking my head in disgust>
So, they went stupid all by themselves, without legal help. Truly amazing. <also shaking my head in disgust>

Offline Nicodemus

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #196 on: February 22, 2011, 07:07:48 PM »
We'll see how far this goes or will continue if they lawyer up.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #197 on: February 22, 2011, 07:38:44 PM »
I just read in the San Francisco chronicle that they don't even have a lawyer.  So the whole, "maybe they got bad legal advice" excuse just went out the window.  They did this without lawyering up.  On their own.  No advice.

<shaking my head in disgust>

Well, they had a sorta-lawyer when they made the application, according to what hanzel dug up and posted above:

Applicant    De®vaes Institute

ERIK M. PELTON ERIK M. PELTON & ASSOCIATES, PLLC
PO BOX 100637
ARLINGTON, VA 22210-3637
UNITED STATES
uspto@tm4smallbiz.com
Applied for Mark    URBAN HOMESTEAD

From their website:

Quote
WELCOME TO tm4smallbiz.com

Presented by trademark lawyer Erik M. Pelton, tm4smallbiz.com is your complete trademark resource.  Mr. Pelton launched this site in 1999 to help small businesses protect and profit from their trademarks. ...

Offline Darkwinter

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #198 on: February 22, 2011, 07:42:27 PM »
 :popcorn:

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #199 on: February 22, 2011, 07:44:48 PM »
I checked Pelton's site. Looks like an internet lawyer, and since he is in Virginia, seems possible they never actually met with him, but...who knows?

Offline NotAGrasshopper

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #200 on: February 22, 2011, 07:46:46 PM »
@TexDaddy:  I thought about that (Texas law) myself but it's important to remember that trademark claims apply to specific classes of goods and services, in their case educational services. Texas law doesn't use the term in that context and doesn't constitute prior use for these purposes.

That said, they'll lose for the reasons the EFF lawyer mentioned.

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #201 on: February 22, 2011, 07:59:14 PM »
Well, they had a sorta-lawyer when they made the application, according to what hanzel dug up and posted above:

I wonder if he has a setup kinda like Legal Zoom where you don't actually have to lawyer up in order to file legal documents.

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #202 on: February 22, 2011, 08:01:13 PM »
@TexDaddy:  I thought about that (Texas law) myself but it's important to remember that trademark claims apply to specific classes of goods and services, in their case educational services. Texas law doesn't use the term in that context and doesn't constitute prior use for these purposes.

That said, they'll lose for the reasons the EFF lawyer mentioned.
Oh, I do agree on both your points. I wasn't referring to prior use, though. I may be wrong, but to me 'intellectual property' is a term that applies to something you 'thunk up on your own, by your ownself.'

Offline Roswell

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #203 on: February 22, 2011, 08:26:20 PM »
I wonder if he has a setup kinda like Legal Zoom where you don't actually have to lawyer up in order to file legal documents.
Yup.  It looks like they probably filled out an online form and that guy printed it out on his letter head.
http://www.tm4smallbiz.com/tm_appl_contact.shtml

Offline chrisdfw

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #204 on: February 22, 2011, 08:35:27 PM »
I just read in the San Francisco chronicle that they don't even have a lawyer.  So the whole, "maybe they got bad legal advice" excuse just went out the window.  They did this without lawyering up.  On their own.  No advice.

<shaking my head in disgust>

So they acted as their own legal counsel... and had fools for clients.

Its one thing to get a little greedy and try to muscle out others, which I hate about the way trademark and copyright law is used
But a whole different level of stupid when you don't have a prayer in hell of succeeding, which a proper lawyer would have advised.
They get what they deserve. I am guessing their business is ruined. OOPS.

Offline NotAGrasshopper

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #205 on: February 22, 2011, 09:00:04 PM »
@TexDaddy: thunk up yourself isn't required. What is required is using it in commerce (I.e., branding goods or services with the mark). Stupidest thing I never did:  start a shipping company called "fedex" while Federal Express customers called them that but before they adopted the name.

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #206 on: February 22, 2011, 09:00:21 PM »
I just read in the San Francisco chronicle that they don't even have a lawyer.  So the whole, "maybe they got bad legal advice" excuse just went out the window.  They did this without lawyering up.  On their own.  No advice.

<shaking my head in disgust>

you have a link to that story?  I would be interested in reading it

nm - http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/green/detail?entry_id=83591
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 09:24:07 PM by Morning Sunshine »

Offline Nicodemus

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #207 on: February 22, 2011, 09:17:01 PM »
This is reminiscent of Tracy Jordan's illegitimate son Donald on "30 Rock" who keeps on thinking up and opening businesses with names that other companies use...

He names restaurant that serves the basics that everyone needs, "Staples".

He wants to name a phone service you can call to find out about air quality across the US, "American Airlines".

He tried to open a microbrewery that also serves frozen yogurt, "Microsoft".

Granted, those would probably be legal under the letter of Trademark Law.  :D


Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #208 on: February 22, 2011, 09:25:55 PM »
you have a link to that story?  I would be interested in reading it

Urban homesteading, TM?

Quote from: San Francisco Chronicle
It seems the Dervaeses — pushing the boundaries of self-sufficiency — didn't get a lawyer before walking into this mess.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/green/detail?entry_id=83591#ixzz1EkjrutAa

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: Urban Homesteading trademarked, Dervaes Family gets Death Threats
« Reply #209 on: February 22, 2011, 09:28:37 PM »
@TexDaddy: thunk up yourself isn't required. What is required is using it in commerce (I.e., branding goods or services with the mark). Stupidest thing I never did:  start a shipping company called "fedex" while Federal Express customers called them that but before they adopted the name.
All true. And again I maybe wrong, but they seem to be claiming to be protecting 'intellectual property' by trade marking it. For instance, no one at GM claims that the word 'Impala' is something they invented or their intellectual property. They do reserve the right to be the only ones who manufacture an automobile by that name. By going after someone who used a common term that is even used in written law in their book because the term is their intellectual property because they trademarked it is ludicrous. Now, if they wanted to do business as 'The Urban Homestead Produce Co.' and trademark that name, I would have no problem with them going after someone else who started to grow or sell produce under that same name.

This is reminiscent of Tracy Jordan's illegitimate son Donald on "30 Rock" who keeps on thinking up and opening businesses with names that other companies use...

He names restaurant that serves the basics that everyone needs, "Staples".

He wants to name a phone service you can call to find out about air quality across the US, "American Airlines".

He tried to open a microbrewery that also serves frozen yogurt, "Microsoft".

Granted, those would probably be legal under the letter of Trademark Law.  :D


Probably, so long as there is no chance of "product confusion" and he did not try to make his logos look like theirs. For instance, GM once marketed a vehicle under the nameplate 'Beretta.' Of course this was already and still is a firearms manufacturer. The gun maker sued GM over the use of their trademarked name. It was settled out of court for "an undisclosed product exchange." GM sold Berettas (POS) and the gun maker said no more. I always wondered which, how many and who got the products Beretta traded to GM.