Author Topic: Does the Lead Round Nose Bullet have a place as a self-defense round?  (Read 37664 times)

endurance

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Re: Does the Lead Round Nose Bullet have a place as a self-defense round?
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2011, 09:16:38 AM »
I was recently in an OIS in which I was getting out of the way of and shooting into a moving vehicle.  I was using Winchester Ranger .45 230gr JHP T Series and less than half penetrated the vehicle.   Granted they all came in at varying angles but were at very close range.  Two rounds went through the small back door of the extended cab truck and lodged in the back of the drivers seat without going through it.  The driver was struck once and the injury was very minor.  The bullet basically bounced off of his leg.  It bled a little, apparently hurt a lot and Im sure the bruise was one for the books but that was it.

Had I been using FMJs or round nose lead bullets, I think the guy would be dead.  I've heard of officers mixing a few FMJs in with JHPs for this reason.  However, for liability purposes, I'll stick with what I'm issued.
I picked up a box of Israeli "Improved Metal Jacket" bullets at a gun show back in the early 1990s and alternated my duty ammo (hydroshoks) and the IMJ rounds for that reason.  but in hindsight, I agree, there's an added degree of liability.

Offline Steve Cover

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Re: Does the Lead Round Nose Bullet have a place as a self-defense round?
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2011, 10:32:50 AM »
I was recently in an OIS in which I was getting out of the way of and shooting into a moving vehicle.  I was using Winchester Ranger .45 230gr JHP T Series and less than half penetrated the vehicle.   Granted they all came in at varying angles but were at very close range.  Two rounds went through the small back door of the extended cab truck and lodged in the back of the drivers seat without going through it.  The driver was struck once and the injury was very minor.  The bullet basically bounced off of his leg.  It bled a little, apparently hurt a lot and Im sure the bruise was one for the books but that was it.

Had I been using FMJs or round nose lead bullets, I think the guy would be dead.  I've heard of officers mixing a few FMJs in with JHPs for this reason.  However, for liability purposes, I'll stick with what I'm issued.
Interesting "Self Defense" situation.
This incident kind of blurs the line between "Self-Defense" and "Police Duty" ammunition.
They are not exactly the same function. 
My understanding of the original question was as a civilian self-defense use.
For penetrating cars, I think the KTW armor piercing type ammunition that was issued back when I wore a badge would be a better choice.
I also have my doubts as to whether an unjacketed lead bullet would penetrate a car body and not mushroom out on one of the layers of steel.
Ball ammunition on the other hand probably would do much better.

Thanks for bringing this scenario up.
It does add new perspective to the discussion.

Steve

Offline MacReady

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Re: Does the Lead Round Nose Bullet have a place as a self-defense round?
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2011, 12:16:17 PM »
You're probably right about an unjacketed lead bullet.   I had a half jacketed soft tip in mind when I wrote that, probably from the Remington core-lokt reference earlier.