Author Topic: Some basic questions on handguns from a newbie  (Read 6723 times)

Offline ZenGunFighter

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Re: Some basic questions on handguns from a newbie
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2011, 08:45:55 PM »


But maybe you should write a letter to all the agencies that use the Sig Sauer. They really could use some advice from a leading firearms guru. To make it easy I'll list them for you.

Straight from Sig website:
'
We are known by the "Company We Keep." SIG SAUER pistols are used to protect our President (USSS), our Skies (FAMS), our Coasts (USCG), The Pope (Papal Guard) and by prestigious Military organizations such as the US Air Force (M11), US Army (M11), SEALs (P226), Canadian Military and the British Military in Iraq.
 
U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security (largest U.S. non-military contract)
U.S. Navy SEALs
U.S.Navy SWCC
U.S. Federal Air Marshals
U.S. Secret Service
U.S. Coast Guard
U.S. ATF
 U.S. Department of State Diplomatic Security
 U.S. Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS)
U.S. Army 902d Military Intelligence Group (M11)
U.S. Army Criminal Investigative Divison (CID)
USAF OSI (M11)
U.S. NAVY Aviators (M11)
1/3 of all U.S. State & Local LE
 UAE Police Force
 Federal Protective Service
British MOD and SAS
Canadian Military (P226)
 Chile PICH
Colombia CNP and Army
 Egypt Presidential Guard
 Egypt Army
 France pistols and rifles in use by Police Nationale, Gendarmerie and Douanes
German Customs and Border Control
8 German SEK units
 GIGN French Special Force
Hong Kong Police – P250
India NSG & various Police
 Indonesian Defense Forces
 Jordan - KASOTEC and SF
 Kurdistan PSS
 Netherlands National Police
 Norwegian Special Forces 
Saudi Arabia SF Academy
 UAE Force 7


A long list of government agencies which are more concerned with their agents making mistakes, than their being able to effectively use their firearms.

don't take my word for it. Look at the big name people that can carry Anything they want. How many DA/SAs do you see?

Sigs and Berettas work fine. Accurate, reliable, no doubt. I'd use one if I had to.
But I don't.
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Re: Some basic questions on handguns from a newbie
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2011, 11:05:54 PM »
A long list of government agencies which are more concerned with their agents making mistakes, than their being able to effectively use their firearms.

don't take my word for it. Look at the big name people that can carry Anything they want. How many DA/SAs do you see?

Sigs and Berettas work fine. Accurate, reliable, no doubt. I'd use one if I had to.
But I don't.

The SEALs are more concerned with making mistakes? The SAS? The DSS, that I served with during gunfights, are more concerned with mistakes than skill?

If your intent was to insult, then you've done so.

I don't know where you get your opinion, but it isn't fact-based, which makes you a little dangerous to the gun novice.

I hate safeties on a handgun, but a decocker isn't a safety. No one teaches speed holstering so decocking isn't a factor.

WHY do you keep ignoring the DAO feature? It means no decocking. DAO is out there, it's being used, and it eliminates your argument.

I've only worked with four federal agencies that use the Sig. Yeah, we were accidently shooting each other left and right, pure carnage. Must have been two or three ND's an hour. Those damn decockers are such buggers to figure out. We also forget to put our cars in park and hit "send" on our outgoing emails. Oh why, oh why, are ordinary tasks so hard to master?

It's evident that some opinions are based on reading and stories they heard. A Kahr over a Sig? An LCP? Because so many "big name people" carry them? Give me a break.

Offline PistolWhipped

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Re: Some basic questions on handguns from a newbie
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2011, 11:13:05 PM »
I've taken a basic safety class and gotten a license to carry (I live in MAss), and been to the range a few times to practice. I'm looking for opinions on a number of issues from the experts here:

1) deciding between revolver and semi-auto. One thing I've been told conflicting stories about is storing ammunition in the clip for extended periods of time: if I have a clip with bullets in it and it sits unused for months, will the spring in the clip get ruined making it unworkable when you pick up the gun to use it? That is, do I need to empty the clips for storage and load them each time or can I leave a clip loaded for long periods of time without worrying that it will be ruined and unusable when needed?

2) deciding on model of handgun and ammunition type.  I know there's no one right answer but here are my parameters.  I'm 5'6", and 140 lbs, and I do surgery-like work with my hands, so I don't want a ton of recoil. I tried a small revolver the other day with 38 special bullets, and it was too much - I've got a bruise and a sore hand, which is fine if it's an emergency situation but I can't have that on a regular basis for practicing with this thing or it will mess with my job.  I then tried a bigger revolver and a 9mm, both of which were ok recoil-wise.  However, the smaller one would sure be easier to conceal-carry! Someone then suggested I try a 22, but as I understand, the self-defense aspect of the 22 is not great. So, I guess my questions are:
    - is there a compromise between something that's small enough to carry every day (and my clothes are light enough that a big gun will make a visible lump) and something that's big enough that it won't beat up my hand?
    - is there any 22 round that actually has significant stopping power?

Thanks in advance for any wisdom from you all.

1) As far as magazine springs, they have, for the most part, solved that with recent designs.  I store a LOT of my AK ammo in the magazines.  I'm not sure if I would trust a magazine that sat loaded for a few years, but even a few months wouldn't be an issue. 

As far a revolver vs. auto, It's a personal preference thing, and a question of intended role. 

Double Action revolvers are dead simple to load and shoot.  Even someone unfamiliar with handguns would be able to figure out loading, unloading, and shooting it.  It is, for the most part, very reliable.  The gun isn't dependent on a recoiling slide to load the next round, the entire operation is manual, so no limp wristing, stovepipes, and many other automatic associated malfunctions. Furthermore, they are not sensitive to bullet shape, power fluctuation, etc.  And finally, you can load more powerful rounds into a revolver than most autoloaders.  The recoil is distributed along the top strap, as opposed to a small recoil lug.   This allows for powerful rounds to be crammed into simple and relatively inexpensive firearms.  Compare a .44 Mag Taurus at $450-500 to a .44 Mag Desert Eagle at 3 times that price.

However, revolvers do have their disadvantages.  Long, somewhat heavy triggers take training to shoot WELL at SPEED.  Ammo capacity is limited to 5-8 rounds.  Reloads take practice to do quickly, and are much more complex than dropping and inserting a new mag.  So, while they may be simpler to use, they still take a lot of practice to use well.

Automatics advantages have been covered well already, so I'll leave that be.  Disadvantages include more common malfunctions (FTF, FTE, out of battery, stovepipes, etc), the need for preloaded mags, etc, and a level of finickiness to certain ammo types or bullet shapes.

2.  A good, mid to full sized 9mm auto would likely be a good choice for moderate recoil, sufficient power, and good shootability.  The Glock 19, Sig P250 Compact, and XD9 SubCompact might be good choices for some level of concealability while maintaining good handling characteristics.  For a very low recoil round that can do some actual damage, there is always the FN Five-seveN, but the ammo is pricey, and there is a stigma since Ft. Hood.  I can't speak to it's effectiveness versus something like a 9mm, but I do know it is MUCH more effective than .22 LR or Mag when placed correctly.  The Hornaday V-max rounds do insane things in ballistics gel tests.

Finally, a good carry rig (quality belt, holster, etc) is easily as big a factor in carry comfort as the size of the gun.  An all steel Govt. 1911 can carry very well with a comfortable holster.  Galco, BladeTech, Milt Sparks, Dale Fricke, are all holster manufacturers that make top notch gear.

Also, I won't get involved in the debate of the viability of Sigs, but I know I would take a Sig over almost ANY other handgun, any day of the week.  They are damn reliable handguns.  All else is secondary.

Offline OldManSchmidt

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Re: Some basic questions on handguns from a newbie
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2011, 11:21:09 PM »
"For a very low recoil round that can do some actual damage, there is always the FN Five-seveN, but the ammo is pricey, and there is a stigma since Ft. Hood.  I can't speak to it's effectiveness versus something like a 9mm, but I do know it is MUCH more effective than .22 LR or Mag when placed correctly.  The Hornaday V-max rounds do insane things in ballistics gel tests."

Don't take this the wrong way because those folks didn't deserve what was done to them at all.

The FN 5.7 is obviously an effective round because it dealt out an exceptional amount of death and destruction at Ft. Hood.  High ammo capacity, insane ballistics (so I hear), and concealable.  Both the ammo and gun are pricey, but they would undoubtedly meet the requirements of the job at hand.
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Offline Pathfinder

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Re: Some basic questions on handguns from a newbie
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2011, 07:01:53 AM »
Excellent post Pathfinder and back on topic to boot.

+1

Thanks! I do try.   ;D

OTOH, I have been known to drift a thread wildly myself!  ;)
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Offline ZenGunFighter

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Re: Some basic questions on handguns from a newbie
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2011, 08:22:09 AM »
The SEALs are more concerned with making mistakes? The SAS? The DSS, that I served with during gunfights, are more concerned with mistakes than skill?

If your intent was to insult, then you've done so.

I don't know where you get your opinion, but it isn't fact-based, which makes you a little dangerous to the gun novice.

I hate safeties on a handgun, but a decocker isn't a safety. No one teaches speed holstering so decocking isn't a factor.

WHY do you keep ignoring the DAO feature? It means no decocking. DAO is out there, it's being used, and it eliminates your argument.

I've only worked with four federal agencies that use the Sig. Yeah, we were accidently shooting each other left and right, pure carnage. Must have been two or three ND's an hour. Those damn decockers are such buggers to figure out. We also forget to put our cars in park and hit "send" on our outgoing emails. Oh why, oh why, are ordinary tasks so hard to master?

It's evident that some opinions are based on reading and stories they heard. A Kahr over a Sig? An LCP? Because so many "big name people" carry them? Give me a break.

I have debated several times, whether to keep posting to this. but we have a newbie asking serious questions and I want him to have what I consider to be good information.  Unfortunately, we've probably confused them more than helped.

Goatdog, I've seen postings of some of the training that you do, and I'm impressed. Top notch stuff. No question. But you are coming at this from a military/agency perspective, not a civilian one.

I'm sorry if you feel that I was insulting about the fact that agencies/governments pick guns that they feel are 'safer'.  Look at what NYC did with Glock... or the NYSP...

I always made sure to say that the DAs listed are good guns. they work. But they are needlessly complicated.

When a service member is carrying his M9, what condition is it in?
Why?

You saw Frank S's post about the 30% drop in NDs when decockers were dropped?

DAOs ARE an alternative. But in the Sig/HK they still have a loooonnnggg trigger reach.  I've used a Sig 226 DAO and a USP so equiped.
Ok....but I'd rather deal with the Glock or M&P trigger.  If I have the choice, why make things harder on myself?

LCP over a Sig, like a 239? I'll take the Sig. But I'm 5'10 180 pounds, trigger reach is right at my outer limit. The LCP works, has a manageable trigger and is exceedingly 'carriable'. Better a .380 in the pocket than a .45 at home.  I'd Rather have a Kahr PM9, but some people aren't going to be able to conceal even that.

Bottom line is the OP will have to work it out for himself. Hopefully, they will get the training that is so much more important
than whatever gun they choose.

So... OP, When you are looking at pistols, open your strong hand and place the pistol's backstrap (back of the grip) into the web between the index finger and thumb. keep the pistol in line with your forearm. this will have the pistol point more naturally for you and keep the recoil off of your thumb and put it up your arm. Once the pistol is in line with your arm, can you get the center of the end pad of your index finger on the FRONT of the trigger? If not, the pistol is too big for you.
Can you still shoot it? Sure, but you will be struggling.
No need for that.

Other factors, Can you rack the slide? Can you pull the trigger Slowly?

How do YOU like it? How do you hit with it?
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Goatdog62

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Re: Some basic questions on handguns from a newbie
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2011, 07:31:44 PM »
I have debated several times, whether to keep posting to this. but we have a newbie asking serious questions and I want him to have what I consider to be good information.  Unfortunately, we've probably confused them more than helped.

I don't believe that telling a new guy that the Sig is outdated to be "good information." I think it is almost my duty to inform him of the counterpoint. We may have confused him and that is not good at all. I would hate for someone to dish out the $ for a Sig only to be told it was outdated. It's not. I was backing up my endorsement of the Sig by listing some of the agencies that use it. This would normally be seen as adding to the credibility of the weapon in question. To dismiss the list by making an unfounded statement about them is a little irresponsible IMHO.

Goatdog, I've seen postings of some of the training that you do, and I'm impressed. Top notch stuff. No question. But you are coming at this from a military/agency perspective, not a civilian one.

You have no idea where I'm coming from. I wasn't aware that handguns function differently when one is a civilian. I have been the shooter in a "civilian" incident. I was defending my family and home. That was my first use-of-deadly-force. Since then I have been forced to pull the trigger as a soldier, a police officer, and as a contractor. I have never not been armed for duty and almost never off-duty. Additionally I continue to train and train some pretty important people. I believe you are likely an effective trainer also, but I wouldn't dream of making the conclusion about you that you did about me.

I'm sorry if you feel that I was insulting about the fact that agencies/governments pick guns that they feel are 'safer'.  Look at what NYC did with Glock... or the NYSP...

The truth is, I never mentioned the GLOCKs of NYPD. I spoke of and listed agencies that use the Sig. You replied with "A long list of government agencies which are more concerned with their agents making mistakes, than their being able to effectively use their firearms." That is an unfair statement, and likely a statement not based on actual first-hand knowledge. It is your right to have an opinion about them though.

I always made sure to say that the DAs listed are good guns. they work. But they are needlessly complicated.

Let's see, you load it, holster it, identify a threat, draw it, align the sights, and pull the trigger. Am I missing something?What "complications" make it a DA handgun harder to use then the handguns you prefer?

When a service member is carrying his M9, what condition is it in?

That would vary depending on when and where an SM is serving. When I carried it, prior to retiring 16 years ago on July 1st 1995, it was loaded, one in the chamber, and on safe. I cannot speak for current policies as those vary from unit to unit and what the threat level is. When I am overseas in proximity to service members, they generally are armed with other handguns that are issued, versions of the Sig being amongst them.

BTW, since the M9 is a Beretta, I'm not sure why we're even talking about it since my defense of SIG and revolvers has been my focus. I don't own a Beretta. I, when issued it as a sidearm, chose to master it rather than complain about its perceived faults


Why?

Because commanders at various levels make decisions based on experience and their guidance from higher. I don't always agree with policy, but generally follow it.

You saw Frank S's post about the 30% drop in NDs when decockers were dropped?

Stats are pointless without background, context, and references. Is there no chance they reduced their ND's by training on their newly issued weapon? There are units out there with almost zero ND's using Sigs. Training is the answer, not buying a different gun.

DAOs ARE an alternative. But in the Sig/HK they still have a loooonnnggg trigger reach.  I've used a Sig 226 DAO and a USP so equiped.
Ok....but I'd rather deal with the Glock or M&P trigger.  If I have the choice, why make things harder on myself?

It's not harder to many people. I like the trigger pull on a DAO Sig. Thousands of others do also.

LCP over a Sig, like a 239? I'll take the Sig. But I'm 5'10 180 pounds, trigger reach is right at my outer limit.

You gotta be kidding me. The P239 has a compact trigger reach. I just grabbed it and compare it to my GLOCK 19. Your hands, I'm sure, are normal-sized

The LCP works, has a manageable trigger and is exceedingly 'carriable'. Better a .380 in the pocket than a .45 at home. 

I agree. A gun is better than no gun

I'd Rather have a Kahr PM9, but some people aren't going to be able to conceal even that.

Bottom line is the OP will have to work it out for himself. Hopefully, they will get the training that is so much more important
than whatever gun they choose.

Complete agreement. Knowing how to use a 2-shot derringer is better than not knowing how to use a Dan Wesson 1911.

So... OP, When you are looking at pistols, open your strong hand and place the pistol's backstrap (back of the grip) into the web between the index finger and thumb. keep the pistol in line with your forearm. this will have the pistol point more naturally for you and keep the recoil off of your thumb and put it up your arm. Once the pistol is in line with your arm, can you get the center of the end pad of your index finger on the FRONT of the trigger? If not, the pistol is too big for you.
Can you still shoot it? Sure, but you will be struggling.
No need for that.

Other factors, Can you rack the slide? Can you pull the trigger Slowly?

How do YOU like it? How do you hit with it?

OP, if you have tried the GLOCK 19 and it doesn't work for your hand and CC purposes, then consider their single stack offerings. I think the GLOCK 36 is pretty darn compact and has a tremendously proven round. Don't let the fact that it is a .45 make you think it will be hard to handle. It is a great compact .45. I think GLOCKs are the closest gun to a revolver for simplicity and reliability.

ZGF, I respect your posts for the most part also. I don't think I know it all about guns, but I do know Sigs pretty well and would drop my endorsement of them if they were outdated.

Offline d0j0w0

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Re: Some basic questions on handguns from a newbie
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2011, 09:34:38 PM »
I think he has some very complicated ergonomic issues and grip comfort problems.  He's going to have to try a bunch of guns and grip combinations. 

first he should pick a caliber.
than decide on a gun
than find a good after market or custom grip.
working with a shooting instructor could not hurt.

I've found that doing hand exercises designed to strengthen your grip and forearm a good way to shot a gun better and makes recoil fell less harsh (I use a black grip master).  This may not be an option for him due to his work.

Hope this works. 

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Offline PistolWhipped

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Re: Some basic questions on handguns from a newbie
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2011, 07:05:08 PM »
May I ask what you job is?  Delicate, surgery like tasks leads me to believe it may be electronics related, or, obviously, surgery.  I routinely do delicate work in kitchens myself, and haven't had any issues with recoil affecting that. I do develop slight termors in my grip after long shooting sessions, but even those fade after a little time.  And I also doubt you'll be hitting the range to knock out 100+ rounds before work in the mornings, so that is somewhat a moot point. 

Recoil induced tremors tend to fade quickly, so as long as the round isn't painful to shoot, you should he fine.

Offline Frank S.

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Re: Some basic questions on handguns from a newbie
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2011, 01:38:15 PM »
...and here's my answer to the original question:

There are multiple factors that go into my personal choices for defensive firearms.

1) Reliability! The gun must go *bang* when I press the trigger.
2) Customer service.  All guns are man made and will eventually break [even Glocks. I've broken 5 of those], and I want to know that when I pick up the phone and call the factory that they will actually answer the phone and actually care about fixing the problem. I like it when I ship a gun off and it's back in my hands within two weeks FIXED - not back 3-months later with a note that says "we couldn't find anything wrong, so don't bother us again or we'll sue!", or "It just needed to be cleaned."

1 and 2 are must haves - I won't compromise on those. I hear that a company is a pain to deal with, then I don't care what super fantastic ultra pistol they are selling, I'm not buying it.

3) It should fit my hand.  I'm lucky, most guns fit me. The Glock 21 is huge and out of all the Glocks it fits my hands best. Most other Glocks don't - the finger grooves don't line up with my finger spacing. But, Glocks do go BANG every time I press the trigger, and that far out weighs the hand issue. Glock also doesn't have the most comfortable grip angle, but that's a huge part of what makes the thing so reliable. 1911's have a very comfortable grip width and grip angle, but everything in this business is a trade off. A single stack magazine means less ammunition, and the comfortable grip angle leaves many 1911's with a hollowpoint feeding issue.

I don't find revolvers comfortable in my hands, or to shoot. That's a personal thing, though. I'm a fan of high capacity on-board ammunition, as well, and revolvers are limited in capacity. They take longer to reload, as well. But revolvers have their place and many good points. I still carry one every once-in-a-while, and I don't feel "underarmed" when I do...but I carry two when I do!

Also with the size issue, some guns are absolutely too small for me. The Ruger LCP [as I'm now finding] is one of them. I can't get enough hand on them to allow the gun to cycle properly. I had the same issue with the Kel-Tec 3AT, and I was hoping Ruger re-engineered it to fix that issue....but I guess it's not for me.

4) I see no good reason to have a decocker on a pistol. If others do, god bless 'em. If you hand me a pistol with a decocker and say "this way to the war!", I won't even blink an eye. I can run them, and I do on a regular basis. But it is never anything I recommend to those seeking my advice on what gun to buy, and I stated why in an above post.

5) I care what the gun is called. I won't carry a gun called "The Judge". That is the last thing I ever want to have to defend in front of a Jury. It's a minor point, but I think it worth mentioning.

Those are my main personal criterion, yours may vary.

Other points will enter in depending on the person. Cost, ammunition cost, felt recoil, whether the gun is shared with others, storage issues, etc... And that is all on a case-by-case basis.

Things that don't matter all that much are:

"Ability to rack the slide." Everyone can do that; it's a matter of instruction and technique. My mother, at 110lbs, with fibromyalgia and renal cancer, 3-weeks before her death, could operate the slide on her Glock 19. And I have yet to meet any normal adult who couldn't be taught to do so. That being said, the smaller you make a gun, the heavier the recoil spring has to be. So, expect it to be  more of a struggle when you decide on a Kahr PM9 over a S&W M&P fullsize. Again, nothing is for free and everything is a trade off.

Caliber. .380 or larger for serious defense. All handgun calibers SUCK, and there if far too much debate about it. 9mm vs .45 is a waste of time!

Trigger weight on an autoloading pistol. 5lbs is is as light as it should be.

Lastly, I would leave my guns as stock as possible. I would not add an "extended this" or "enlarged that" to any of my guns. There is nothing you can bolt, screw or glue to a gun that will align your sights for you and press the trigger. Save the "accessory" money and spend it on training.
It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential. -Bruce Lee

Offline PistolWhipped

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Re: Some basic questions on handguns from a newbie
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2011, 08:01:04 PM »
If someone hands me a pistol and says "this way to the war!", I'm shooting them and taking their rifle. :D

Offline Frank S.

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Re: Some basic questions on handguns from a newbie
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2011, 11:14:05 PM »
If someone hands me a pistol and says "this way to the war!", I'm shooting them and taking their rifle. :D

Remind me not to hang out with you when you don't have your own guns with.  ;)
It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential. -Bruce Lee

Offline PistolWhipped

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Re: Some basic questions on handguns from a newbie
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2011, 06:47:25 PM »
Damn skippy.  No one is sending ME to war with a pistol.

Offline technicalanarchy

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Re: Some basic questions on handguns from a newbie
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2011, 09:35:02 PM »
If someone hands me a pistol and says "this way to the war!", I'm shooting them and taking their rifle. :D

Did you shoot me? Cause my side is killing me from laughing. Been catching up on old 24's on Netflix and I was thinking last night Jack Bauer would shoot someone with his rifle to get their pistol.

I'll chime in what I have learned for myself about civilian carry. It cost me a lot to learn this stuff. I carry all day, everyday. I've never used my gun in defense (or offense for that matter), but I do carry everywhere I'm legally allowed in case.

1. This, that and the other, comfort on confidence in your ability and that of your chosen firearm is the key to carry. If it's not comfortable you will get over it. If you aren't confident in the chosen pistol why carry it? I've never pulled a gun on anyone so it sees way more holster time than anything else. I think a good 1st carry gun should be around $500.

2. Belt, get better than a good belt. It's been mentioned above and needs to be mentioned again.

2. Get a good holster. Get the pistol first and for the first holster go to a local gun store and try them out. You will pay more but really you will pay less. Then buy some on the internet if you find a good deal. The first one expect $50 (minimum) and up. Get a good one.

3. As for the pistol, get what you are comfortable with. for carry look at weight, size, accuracy for sure.

What I personally have chosen and kinda why (If anyone cares)

I prefer 9mm cause I think it's a good balance of power, size and weight. For bullets use what the local PD uses. I like Speer Gold Dot. Pretty good ballistics and the name and branding isn't harsh if you have to go to court.

I'm about the same size as the OP and for me the perfect carry gun is the Glock G26 Gen 3. I have tried others but for comfort, size, weight, reliability and accuracy in it's size I haven't seen anything that can touch it. I have a G19 and love it but it's a bit to long. The G26 in my opinion loses nothing in it's small size. It's a bit wide but anything smaller shoots like a smaller gun. For a 1st pistol with CCW in mind the G26 has worked well for me the past 2 years. I'd say if you want all the safety stuff an XD subcompact would work about the same. They are made for carry and don't pinch and grab.

One of the main things I like about the G26 is it's light enough that I can wear it all day concealed, it's edges are rounded so I don't get poked or scratched. It has 10 rounds (will hold up to a 30 round mag), it shoots more like full size than a compact so it's super at the range. Super at the range means that you get more practice time with your carry gun. I think that is important.

I also have a Taurus 905 5 shot revolver snubbie as backup and rarely use it anymore. It's lighter and smaller, it also will leave a sore spot in the web of the thumb after some range use. Not near as accurate but it's much smaller. It's a 2nd gun. I did put a bigger set of grips on it and more than doubled my effective accuracy with it, but the new grips added more to the size than I wanted.

I got a Sig P220 and freaking love it. But about 2 hours before the day is over it's just heavy and uncomfortable.

Tried 1911's but they just poke me all day long. I like a 1911 in a shoulder holster, that's not to bad.

I could go on and on but lucky for you all my wife has decided I need to do something else...

Thanks,
Mike

Offline Frank S.

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Re: Some basic questions on handguns from a newbie
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2011, 11:46:05 AM »
Damn skippy.  No one is sending ME to war with a pistol.

1- You may have no choice.
2- I was simply illustrating a point. I didn't necessarily mean a literal "war", but "the fight", whatever that may be.
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Offline Cooter Brown

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Re: Some basic questions on handguns from a newbie
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2011, 05:58:06 PM »
I've taken a basic safety class and gotten a license to carry (I live in MAss), and been to the range a few times to practice.

If you're within a reasonable drive of the Providence area, I'd be glad to take you to the range and try a few things out. You'd have to come to me, cause I can't bring stuff in to the PRM.

PM me if that would be helpful at all.
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