Author Topic: need your ideas...  (Read 4490 times)

dbuchner

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need your ideas...
« on: February 13, 2009, 08:07:40 AM »
My challenge is to find a way to get water from a river up into a water collection barrel that is about 100 ft. away.  I was thinking about some kind of syphon... but thought some of you might have a different / better idea for me.  I'm trying to find a way to avoid actually moving the barrel, because it would have to be pulled over a gravel parking lot which is uneven.  This is for our community garden.

Any thoughts?

millerized1

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Re: need your ideas...
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2009, 08:22:41 AM »
You might want to check into a hydraulic ram, depending on the rise/run ratio of the river. In a nutshell, it uses the pressure of the water running downhill to drive a pump.  It aint' fast, but it works. A good drawing/explanation here: http://www.clemson.edu/irrig/equip/ram.htm

Google search http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hydraulic+ram+pump&aq=f&oq=

Can't be much more help, but I'm sure someone here will be able to.


Offline archer

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Re: need your ideas...
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2009, 10:23:47 AM »
Ah damn Millerized, you beat me to it!
Here's a link for a company that makes them
http://www.greenandcarter.com/index.htm

Offline Stein

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Re: need your ideas...
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2009, 09:29:11 PM »
Looks like we are all thinking alike today.  The ram (or pump) uses the flow of water to move water uphill.  They are horribly inefficient, but unless you are using all of the river it doesn't matter.

They also are incredibly reliable and need little servicing to keep them going.

dbuchner

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Re: need your ideas...
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2009, 09:17:35 AM »
Well.... I don't have to go up hill... only across a little distance.  Looks like these rams all cost a bit of $ too and the community garden practically has no budget, since this is the first year.  I found this self-priming syphon.  I wonder if something like this would work.  If you look at my avatar picture, this is a good representation of what I have to do: get from that river to a location that would be a little further that on the other side of the colored trees.  I probably should have mentioned that I have 1 or 2 50 gallon barrels that people in the garden share to water their plants.  It's my job to keep the barrels full.  It might not seem like much, but it's a lot of water to move on a daily basis.

Here's a link to the syphon:  http://www.shammysolutions.com/site/1618064/product/100-23

Any thoughts on whether or not I could dip that right in the river and draw water through a 100' hose?


Offline TimSuggs

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Re: need your ideas...
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2009, 10:07:57 AM »
Well.... I don't have to go up hill... only across a little distance.  Looks like these rams all cost a bit of $ too and the community garden practically has no budget, since this is the first year.  I found this self-priming syphon.  I wonder if something like this would work.  If you look at my avatar picture, this is a good representation of what I have to do: get from that river to a location that would be a little further that on the other side of the colored trees.  I probably should have mentioned that I have 1 or 2 50 gallon barrels that people in the garden share to water their plants.  It's my job to keep the barrels full.  It might not seem like much, but it's a lot of water to move on a daily basis.

Here's a link to the syphon:  http://www.shammysolutions.com/site/1618064/product/100-23

Any thoughts on whether or not I could dip that right in the river and draw water through a 100' hose?



Don't send your money to the shammy guy!  Harbor Freight Tools has these siphon pumps for about a buck I think.  They also have this for $2.99...



Chuck it up to a cordless drill and a couple of garden hoses and away you go.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=34302

Tim.


Offline creuzerm

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Re: need your ideas...
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2009, 11:00:49 AM »
Siphons only work if the destination surface level is below the source surface level.
So a siphon won't work for you.

The little drill pump would probably work well. It would be hard on the batteries though as I don't know how much water it will move in 10 minutes. If you have power nearby, an extension cord or two and a corded drill would get the job done.

Community has no resources... hrmm...

A cart or dolly with big, wide, oversized tires would make dragging the barrels over uneven ground easier, but your looking at over 400 lbs when it's full. That is a job for a 4wheeler, really. I wouldn't want to pull that much weight up hill.

If your willing to make a personal investment...
If your looking at a temporary/transportable I would probably make up something like this http://www.vagabondsalvage.com/solarcart/sc01.html with a solar panel and a deep cycle battery. It would be small enough to fit in the trunk of the car or whatever you have to haul it around in. Get something with big balloon tires so you can go over that gravel parking lot more easily. I would then get one of those garden hose reals or two. A big, heavy duty sump-pump or bilge pump that can handle the lift that your looking at. Put the pump on the end of one hose, run a cord down to it as well, and toss the pump, very gently, into the river. I would probably make a cage or float or something that goes around the pump to keep it off the bottom so it doesn't suck up the muck. Then with the other hose real, run out enough hose to fill your barrels.
It would be a pain to move every day, but easier then moving 400+ pound barrels around. By taking it home every night, you reinforce the idea that this is your personal property.  You also have a 12v portable power supply if you ever need it at home.

A more permanent installation...
Probably about the same thing, sans the cart. Post hole dig in a couple of posts. Build a box that can't be taken apart from the outside. Use security screws to keep the kids (or whomever) from walking away with your expensive solar panel(s) and battery. I would still run a pair of hose-reals so that you can just real the hose up when not in use so whoever mows the grass won't chop up your hose. Put your name all the parts that you bought. If it works,  maybe next year, they will have a fund-drive to buy it from you or have you put in a community owned one.


dbuchner

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Re: need your ideas...
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2009, 01:18:22 PM »
Thanks for the help, everyone.  I'm thinking that the heavy-duty wagon and some 5 gallon pails is a real simple solution to the problem here.   :)

Offline creuzerm

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Re: need your ideas...
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2009, 11:15:43 AM »
The simplest is always the best!

3 five gallons buckets in a good oversized wheel wagon. That's 120 lbs. Managable. Quite managable. About 4 trips to fill a barrel. Also, not too much work.

http://www.hipporoller.org/ I just remembered these gadgets.

djturnz

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Re: need your ideas...
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2009, 09:25:48 AM »
If you have a community, you have people.  How about a bucket line from the river to the barrel?

Offline creuzerm

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Re: need your ideas...
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2009, 06:18:19 PM »
If you have a community, you have people.  How about a bucket line from the river to the barrel?

Now that's genius. The totally obvious answer that I never thought of! +1 to you my friend!

JohnnyGrey

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Re: need your ideas...
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2009, 09:02:31 AM »
Can the barrel be made airtight?  If so you can use vacuum to move the water across great distances.  A shopvac or small engine can provide enough vacuum.