Author Topic: Platinum?  (Read 5611 times)

Online FreeLancer

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Platinum?
« on: October 17, 2011, 04:18:18 AM »
Does anyone see any value to holding platinum as a long-term store of value?  Does it offer much above and beyond what silver and gold can provide?

Offline average_joe

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Re: Platinum?
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2011, 07:00:25 AM »
Right now it is setting at $1579.00 per ounce. You can fill up a bunch of holes in your preps or eliminate a lot of debt with that amount of money. The big problem with any PM is that it is not a liquid asset. Finding someone to buy it in a tough economy may prove difficult.

I would not even think about PM's until you have no debt except for your mortgage and a least a 3 month emergency fund with some of it in cash.

 

Offline Shaunypoo

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Re: Platinum?
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2011, 07:55:08 AM »
I think first would be silver, since it would be able to be handled by most people.  Gold would be next, but more as a hedge on inflation than in any real world scenario.  If you have a one ounce gold coin, how are you going to barter for the little things?  At this point, I think platinum would be useless in a survival scenario, but not a bad bet if you are stocked up on your supplies, have a supply of silver and gold, and want to spend it on something else that could be a benificial hedge if the worst doesn't happen. 

Online FreeLancer

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Re: Platinum?
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2011, 04:07:20 PM »
Right now it is setting at $1579.00 per ounce. You can fill up a bunch of holes in your preps or eliminate a lot of debt with that amount of money. The big problem with any PM is that it is not a liquid asset. Finding someone to buy it in a tough economy may prove difficult.

I would not even think about PM's until you have no debt except for your mortgage and a least a 3 month emergency fund with some of it in cash.

I agree with you about the liquidity issue, which is why I haven't obtained much silver or gold, despite being debt free with a healthy amount of readily available liquid assets.  Gold and silver seem high to me right now, but with platinum selling for less than gold I'm wondering if it might be time to get some.  One of the things I've thought about with platinum is the fact that its high melting temp would allow it to remain intact in an intense fire situation, where gold and silver could melt and be harder to recover.

endurance

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Re: Platinum?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2011, 04:29:57 PM »
In some ways I look at platinum as a better investment than gold because of its utility in industry.  However, that's a downside, too.  Let's say the economy tanks which drives down industrial demand for silver and platinum.  Since currently over half of all silver goes into industrial applications and less than 5% goes into coin manufacturing, what do you think that would do to the price of silver? 

On the other hand, there is no inherent value to gold.  The industrial use, besides jewelery is under 20%.  Most goes to coins.  So if the economy tanks, what you have is a bunch of rich people and banks liquidating gold to pay the bills at the same time and you watch the value of gold plummet with no real bottom.  At least with silver and platinum you have a bottom because of a) the face value of silver (assuming you're buying junk silver), and b) industrial demand. 

There have been many who've said that gold has no inherent value and that gold is the ultimate bubble.  That bubble has now been in place for 4000 years and counting.  I hold some gold and some silver, but no platinum at this point.  I wouldn't mind backing out of some of my gold positions because I'm up about 100% since getting in two years ago and I think my money would be better invested in something with a more continuous ROI, like a solar array or wood burning stove.  I guess I'd rather invest in something that I'm absolutely assured of an ROI, like productive land, something that helps me with energy or food self-sufficiency, or serves to eliminate my final debt (mortgage) than something that went down right with the stock market in October-November 2008 (look at the charts, it's disturbing).

Will I always hold some PMs?  Yes, but they aren't the one best answer to all wealth preservation.  I think the best tool for wealth preservation is a very diverse portfolio and skill set.  I suspect you're in a good position skill set-wise in a post-SHTF scenario (your skillset will always be in demand), but will you always have access to the tools and resources to practice your trade?  Are their things you could invest in today that would put you in a better position to ply your trade even if the systems of support broke down?  Off topic, but something to think about.

Online FreeLancer

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Re: Platinum?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2011, 08:09:14 PM »
I guess I look at precious metals as more of a major disaster currency, rather than an investment, for all the reasons that endurance mentioned.  I'm interested in it more as a portable form of wealth that I can access, even in total system failure, when I could be a displaced person without the benefit of my property, preps, and ability to utilize my skills.  With that in mind, is there any benefit to platinum over silver or gold?

endurance

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Re: Platinum?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2011, 08:38:10 PM »
I guess I look at precious metals as more of a major disaster currency, rather than an investment, for all the reasons that endurance mentioned.  I'm interested in it more as a portable form of wealth that I can access, even in total system failure, when I could be a displaced person without the benefit of my property, preps, and ability to utilize my skills.  With that in mind, is there any benefit to platinum over silver or gold?
I suspect if you walked into any bank or coin dealer in South America and I suspect you could exchange your gold or silver for local currency without a question.  I don't think the same is true for platinum.  I think gold is the best commodity density for the type of situation you're describing.  One pocket full of Krugerrands and you could pay the rent and feed your family for six months or longer (in some countries, for a decade), anywhere in the world.

Online FreeLancer

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Re: Platinum?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2011, 10:16:09 PM »
I suspect you're right endurance.  It seems like I remember reading that FerFal found gold to be much more useful than platinum, or even silver, when things went south in Argentina.

Offline average_joe

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Re: Platinum?
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2011, 05:00:52 AM »
I guess I look at precious metals as more of a major disaster currency, rather than an investment, for all the reasons that endurance mentioned.  I'm interested in it more as a portable form of wealth that I can access, even in total system failure, when I could be a displaced person without the benefit of my property, preps, and ability to utilize my skills.  With that in mind, is there any benefit to platinum over silver or gold?

For that specific situation I would rather have a couple of Krugerrand's than platinum coins in my pocket.

Is this coin platinum or really really really shiny silver?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2005_AEPlat_Proof_Obv.png

Jewelry could be a option for you in terms of portability. 

http://www.perkyplatinum.com/

I heard a story maybe Jack talked about it I'm not sure. It was a story about a guy who who purchased purchased several 100 ounce silver bars. He painted them with a brick colored paint scuffed them up a little and used them as door stops in his house. Friends and family passed them by without even a second look. The story goes on to say that he came home to find someone had broken into his home and were still there when he arrived. In their haste to get out of the house without any extra holes holes in them one of them actually tripped over one of the bars fell down got up and kept on going.  :o 

Here is another option if you like platinum.

http://www.shop.alaskamint.com/Silver-Carved-Belt-Buckle-with-Gold-and-Platinum-Nuggets-TRM100B.htm 

 

Online FreeLancer

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Re: Platinum?
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2017, 03:52:48 PM »
Can anyone explain why platinum is trading below palladium?

Offline CharlesH

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Re: Platinum?
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2017, 04:05:28 PM »
Can anyone explain why platinum is trading below palladium?
 
Not sure if this is the only explanation, but from Market Realist:  “Platinum is utilized in diesel engines as an autocatalyst, and palladium is used in gasoline engines as an autocatalyst.

Since the 2015 Volkswagen (VLKAY) emissions scandal, the demand for diesel cars has dropped substantially, and gasoline-powered vehicles are in high demand. This incident inadvertently led to rising palladium demand, which overtook platinum.”

Online FreeLancer

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Re: Platinum?
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2017, 04:07:01 PM »
That makes sense.  Thanks

Offline Carl

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Re: Platinum?
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2017, 06:03:13 AM »
  I don't see platinum as a universally recognized PM and prefer silver (mostly pre 64 U.S. coinage and gold in ounces,half ounces,and tenth ounce Eagles for inflation hedge and possible trade goods value. BUT Precious Metals are outranked by WATER,FOOD,QUALITY TOOLS,FIREARMS as such items have far greater value than PM's in a real time of upheaval and are consumable if the world doesn't end.

  A #10 can of long term potatoes ($8) fast cooking rice or beans ($20) has far more value to BOTH you and others in zombieland and near a large city you can go from civilized to zombies in less than a week.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Platinum?
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2017, 06:16:43 AM »
I know I have a platinum and diamond ring I am selling for metal t-posts  ;D. I figure that is apt.

Cedar

Offline Carl

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Re: Platinum?
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2017, 06:42:59 AM »
I know I have a platinum and diamond ring I am selling for metal t-posts  ;D. I figure that is apt.

Cedar

Sounds like a good trade. I hope the neighbor is civil about encroachment on your land.

Offline David in MN

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Re: Platinum?
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2017, 06:48:30 AM »
I believe all the metals have been taking a beating. For better or worse, Bitcoin has stolen their lunch. I think the traditional metals investor has been lured away.

I could well be wrong.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Platinum?
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2017, 01:35:42 PM »
Is this coin platinum or really really really shiny silver?

I guess the big issue is whether the average investor has the ability to determine whether it's real platinum.  We used to think gold was easy to identify because of its color and density, and then someone started making fakes from gold-coated tungsten, which has nearly identical density.

Wikipedia: List of chemical elements (click on the table heading to sort by density)

Here are the seriously-heavy metals:
18.95   Uranium (natural)
19.05   Uranium (depleted)
19.25   Tungsten
19.28   Gold
19.84   Plutonium
20.45   Neptunium
21.02   Rhenium
21.46   Platinum
22.56   Iridium
22.61   Osmium

For faking platinum's density, we only have rhenium, iridium, and osmium to work with.  Iridium currently costs a little more than platinum, so that's out.  Rhenium is going for $1290/lb ($88.46/troy ounce), so that's theoretically possible.  Osmium is $400/troy ounce, which isn't so profitable.

So it depends on the feasibility of manufacturing platinum-coated rhenium coins, and on the accuracy of the purchaser's measuring equipment.  A 1-oz mostly-rhenium coin would have to be 2% thicker than a 1-oz platinum coin, and that would be pretty challenging to measure.  (A 1-oz mostly-tungsten coin would be 11% thicker, so that would be a lot more obvious.)

I'm guessing that there's not enough economic incentive at present to make fake platinum coins.